¶ Intro / Opening
Weird, weird.
Welcome back to Fanna Malone's weekly round up. I'm that guy, that fella, that fa priest, but there's nothing counterfeit about my co host, She's all K nine. Say hello, Ripley, gen, I know we have housekeeping to do, a lot of housekeeping to do. First up, thank you all for listening and sharing the show. If you haven't, please do so. Any interaction helps to learn them frickin' robots who are in charge now that they can maybe spread the wealth
around and get other people to listen. So please share and give us a whole bunch of stars and say a bunch of nice things. And then tell your friends to listen to You know they want to, and you know it's nice to share.
Be nice. It's the time of.
Year, speaking of which, we keep calling out our UK listeners to hit me up with emails or such.
But I want to hear from all of you.
Me and Ripley are desert rants, broadcasting to from a topy kab lighthouse in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. Why do we need a lighthouse? Because we need a lighthouse, I'm father alone the fog. What's the fuck?
Uh?
I guess we know what our topic is going to be next week, midnight viewers, we're gonna be talking John Carpent just the fog now. As I was saying, we want to hear from any and all of you, no matter where you are on the globe. Let us know what you like and what you don't. Not so much in that one. If you're listening in what you consider the opposite of our hometown, let us know what it's like. You're as much part of the show as me, or Ripley,
you're right as much as me. And finally, I know, well, you got to do a lot of banking when you're a one man show. Even if you edited this, it'd still be a one man show. You're a dog. If you want to hear any of these episodes early and commercial free, head over to patreon dot com slash Father Malone subscribers get all that good stuff in will be starting this week. Get our first Patreon only show, Cable
Box Theater. That's where night mister Walter's host end midnight Viewing Composer HP and I sit down and discuss the late seventies and early eighties phenomenon of film to tape versions of Broadway shows that used to run on fledgling cable networks like HBO and Showtime. Early cable had a lot of hours and not a lot to fill them. In fact, the inaugural episode will be appearing this Friday as a taste, just a brief touch to the tongue
of cable box theater. Okay, I think we're done with housekeeping, but the place setting continues because the last part of the show today, the second and final review. That's right, only two topics this week is going to be a crossover with fellow midnight viewing hosts Chris Dashue and Mike
White's respective podcast. That's right, it's a midnight viewing culture cast Projection Booth three way, as we wade into the Sony Marvel universe, the smooth the last, so they claim of the Sony Verse, Goodbye, Madam Webb, farewell many Spider Man, Adieu Dane de Cook. So that's going to be coming up next. And we like to theme around these here parts. So we've got Craven the Hunter. What pairs well with
a villain portrayed inexplicably as a hero. All of a sudden, the natural choices don't Breathe Part two, But that motherfucker was a rapist, and I didn't bother to watch that sequel where the rapist is now the hero. Listen, I'm a fucking fool for heroes and villains switching allegiance during the course of a narrative or film to film. But as it turns out the nature of the villain, he matters a turkey baster to you, Stephen Lang. So we're gonna keep it. In the comic book world, here's a
villain who's a hero simultaneously. This one's a Marvel fellow
¶ Ghost Rider Review
whom I've loved since the nineteen seventies. That's when he was born in Marvel Spotlight number five. He's had lots of iterations. It's a mental not a person. You nineties kids know him as Danny Ketch if you caught him in the teens. Robbie Reyes took over that flaming skull and he drives a car.
How a dony like that?
Yeah, I'm a bit iffy on it too, but I like Robbie. He's the spirit of vengeance, the fallen Angel. Really, his name is Zarathos, at least it was. I haven't read it in a while. I love him best when he took over Johnny Blaze and became ghost Rider.
Johnny Blaze.
No one has ever attempted such a distance before.
Three hundred feet from field, go to field, gull. What's going through your mind right now? You look really good?
Are gonna look it?
Luck? Don't cover JB. You got an angel looking after you.
Maybe it's something else.
All you have to do is size.
Forget about family, forget about friends, forget about.
You will be the writer for as long as you live. I'm not doing it if you have no choice.
The story goes that he'll be normal during the day, but at night, in the presence of evil, the writer takes over.
You deserve a second chance.
Black Hearts coming to create hell on Earth, and you have the power he needs all day away from anybody he can use against him.
Rock Sam, did you care about me when you have to leave?
Now? I'm not going on.
Any man who sells his soul for love has the power to change the world. I could smell your fear, so.
I'm gonna take this curse and use it against you.
You have this rad Shopper goes off flames and stuff.
His face was a skull and it was on fire, on fire.
Like.
Looking for someone. I'm the only one welcome both worlds.
Ghost All right, I'm good.
I feel like my skull's on fire, but I'm good.
What the fuck is this?
I won't say that that was the only thing not going through my head during the entirety of this film, but it ain't far off. And I wanted to love this movie.
Ghost Rider with.
Nicholas Cage, Peter Fonda, Donald log West Bentley, and Eva Mendez before Gossling spirited her away to whatever magic fairyland he was hatched in. All of these things were positive, So sincerely, what the fuck?
Well, I'll tell you.
Dimension Films released Blade back in ninety six, and, feeling all high on that blood sucking success, they got the rights to ghost Rider, and because David Goyer wrote Blade, he wrote the first draft of ghost Rider. I've read it. I'm not saying I prefer the movie we got, but I'm glad they didn't make Goyer's draft, although they kind of did when they made the sequel. Goyer's script is basically The Crow. He took the exact framework of The
Crow and bladed it up and added a Motorcycle. At that point it was Blade director Stephen Norrington who was attached. Goyer would be replaced by Armageddons Crime Shane Salerno, at which point Johnny Demp was going to be Johnny Blaze. Then I mentioned got cold feet, probably because of those terrible scripts, at which point Columbia, high off their own recent triumphs with Spider Man, figured they could recreate the magic of those films, and who better to do it
than the director of Grumpy Old Man. To be fair, he did also direct Grumpier Old Man and Daredevil, which has its proponents. I think that movie is fun in a few scenes and has a fucking killer performance by Colin Farrellan's Bullseye, but it is mostly unmemorable. Mark Stephen Johnson is given ghost Rider and Carte Blanche. Really now, there are some definite improvements in his script to the previous drafts. For instance, Johnny Blaze rides at the Carnival.
Goyer had him as a low level thief, which is gross. But whereas he put the history of the Blaze family and the Quenton Carnival and Mephisto on screen as it was in the comic Hell. He even pulled in Carter Slade, who was the Ghostwriter before Ghostwrider, but he stumbles when it comes to the Rider himself. Like I said, Ghostwrider has had a lot of iterations over the years, Johnson fell in love with the bounty hunting aspect of him, particularly with its connection to.
The Old West.
Thus Carter Slade, so he wants to have an otherworldly Western with motorcycles, which I'm totally down with. And given Johnson's association with Daredevil, who is the most catholic superhero ever, I figured he'd lean into what sets Ghostwriter apart from probably all superheroes. For all the flaming chains and riding up buildings, He's a character whose real powers are based on sin. His most famous move is the Penance Stare, where he makes a sinner experience all the pain they've
caused over the course of their lives. He can cleanse a soul, he can eat a soul, he can eat sin, making him a sin eater. What's Up Jasmine Midnight Viewings Welsh Correspondent. Some of those powers are featured passingly. Johnson isn't interested in the battle for souls and the manipulation of the human race. And who gets to decide who's worthy of paradise. He wants cg water people fighting flaming skullman And I'll say it again, it's a real drag.
I'd even be willing to put aside the mixing and matching of the supernatural world and faiths, where we've got traditional biblical fallen angels and demons mixing with villains based on the water fire earth elements. It's not a salad bar Johnson. Because of this budget, with these characters in this cast, it could have been magnificent. It should have been magnificent. Wes Bentley is a beautiful and he's a totally worthy embodiment of frequent Ghostwriter antagonist Blackheart. Eva Mendez
does what she can with Roxanne. Everybody's doing a great job, well not quite everyone. Is there anyone who can say no to Nicholas Cage? I mean creatively? Is everyone so jazz to be working with him that they just go along with whatever kooky shit he comes up with. We've talked about him here when we've looked at that film Plastic Surgery Victim Buffalo Bill was that the title the Faint Echo of the Lambs. That's a good one, you're getting a treat. I love Nick Cage.
I really do. He's terrible here.
We know he loves comics. We know he can do the gig. I was looking forward to that Superman movie. I'm looking forward to the Noirs Spider Man series. But he ain't Johnny Blaze. You know how I know, because if he was, he would have put aside his action movie habit of giving his character an absurd hobby or fixation. It was the Beatles in the Rock, which had absolutely no bearing on the film. Was there even a Beatles song featured? And here Johnny Blaze, who sold his soul
to Mephisto and agreed to be his enforcer. Well, he just loves jelly beans. Oh and if he can sip them from an oversized Martini glass, all the more whimsy, You old scamp. Johnny Blaze, who knows what brimstone smells like because it pours from the flames that engulf his disembodied skull, he loves them jelly beans.
Yeah, I know.
This is Nicholas Cage's idea of how Johnny Blaze is.
On the wagon. He no longer im vibes.
He just loves going through the motions with jellybeans. Yeah, he wouldn't want to get drunk. That might interfere with his nighttime transformation into a flaming motorcycle chain wielding demon that sees into the souls to determine whether or not you're worthy of punishment. Wouldn't want to get tipsy. No, no, no, jellybeans. The CG was not great, then it's laughable. Now here's a sign that it was filmed in Australia. Rebel Wilson
is a bystander interviewed about Ghost Rider. The music is poor and I sensed that Johnson only took the job because he imagined the credits rolling and the nail on the head song choice of ghost Riders in the Sky playing only the lamest cover will do. There was a sequel. A lot of people consider it an improvement. They are wrong. It's a great effects reel. It's by Neveldeine Taylor, who did the Crank films, which are good, and Jonah Hex,
which is garbage. Marvel got the rights back to Ghost Rider. So far, all we've gotten is Robbie reyis showing up on that terrible Agency of Shield show. So where the fuck is he now? Ghost Rider, I mean any of them. Sincerely. We want Blade, we want the Rider, we want Dracula and Mephisto. Don't make me do another completely ineffective changing no one's mind a podcast, because I'll do it. What's your point, You're not getting a pick this week.
I'm sorry, but you're not. I'll tell you what we're going to the next segment and we'll make it a rip pick. Okay, you you chose Craven the Hunter.
JA Welcome to the Projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White.
¶ Kraven the Hunter Discussion
Joining me, of course, is mister Chris Tashue.
I prefer to be known as Craven Moorhead.
Also on this episode is the one and only father Alone.
My grandmother died and then I never saw her again.
On this episode it's a very special crossover with the Culture Cast and Midnight Viewing. We were talking about Craven the Hunter. I am craving some Craven from twenty twenty four, directed by JC Chandor written by a whole bunch of people. Here, We've got Richard wenk and A and d art markham
ampersand Matt Holloway, all taken swipe at this script. It is all about Craven, the titular Craven serge A craven Off aka Craven the Hunter, and his complex relationship with his ruthless father, Nikolai Cravenoff, who's played by the one and only.
Russell Crowe Russian Crow.
Yeah, Russian Crow, and uh yeah, just how he became Craven through magic and all kinds of stuff. We will be spoiling this film, so if you don't want anything ruin, please turn off the podcast and come back after you've gone to the theater, maybe rent to this on video, streamed it on wherever, and we will still be here. So, Chris, what did you think of Craven the Hunter?
I am so disappointed that you guys made me watch this movie. This is one of them. This is one of the most unintelligible pieces of shit I have seen in a very long time. It was. Let me put it this way, if you've if you've kept up with the news and the information that's been coming out about the movie since kind of its release or leading up to its release, this is the last Spider versus Sony movie.
That's it. There's nothing else. This is the last one, and good and good fucking riddance, because this movie is
borderline unintelligible, if it's not just completely unintelligible. I don't understand why Aaron Taylor Johnson is in this movie other than if it was the Dakota Johnson of it all, where it's like I need money, I like money, give me money, and I'll play Craven, because I can't imagine he read this script and went, Wow, what a what a real piece of scenery scene and what's scene chewing? What scene stealing? I'm gonna be doing? Is Craven the Hunter?
I was not surprised that it was quite terrible. However, I will say, on the scale of things, it's somehow still manages to be better than Madam Webb. That is damning it with the faintest of faint praise. But for me, this movie was at times laughably bad. I can't believe that the movie was two fucking hours long on top of everything else, as if we needed to be bombarded with two hours of this nonsense. But I I did
not enjoy it. It was a slog and in my closing opening statements, if Aaron Taylor Johnson is in fact cast as James Bond, uh oh, That's all I'm gonna say, because I'm not looking forward to that if that is in fact going to end up being the case. So there's my early opening salvo. And as they say, manifesto about Craven the Hunter, what about you, Father Malone.
I liked it.
I thought it of the Sony spinoff movies, of the Sony movies that aren't directly Spider Man movies, I think it's the best of them. I enjoyed it more than any of the Venom movies three of those fuckers, certainly more than Madame Webb.
What else did we have? They did one more right, Morbius, It's Mormon time.
It's Morbon time.
Okay.
Morbius was way more fun than this movie, No way more Yes, Oh yes, this movie took itself. This movie took itself way too seriously.
Right, I agree, And I appreciated that about it because Morbius didn't take it. Morbius took itself just as seriously. It's just that it was fucking terrible. And if any joy you got from that movie was making fun of it, this is a more complete story. Look, my problems with this movie are as a fan of Marvel comics, who remember Craven being one thing a villain, and a pretty good villain at that, to turning him directly into a fucking superhero, because the story is effectively the same.
Here.
We get Craven, we get the look they kind of recconned him in the early eighties J. M. Demitaeus when he took over Craven. He he wreckcoun a lot of the Russian heritage and stuff. We get Craven, we get his dad, we get his brother, who is the chameleon, who was the first first Spider Man villain. We get a lot of what's really right about Craven. But at the same time he's noble and doing all the right things.
So the problem with these Sinister six type spinoff movies that they've been attempting is that they never give us the actual fucking villain as a character, but compared to all the venoms and the morbiuses and stuff, as a story of a family and this weird superhero kind of world that they're plucked into. I enjoyed it because I
don't know what to tell you. I liked that they had Calypso in here, who's his love interest from the comics, and I actually think they did her character better than they did in the comics.
I don't think it was great.
I think I think this movie needed to come out six years ago and then there would have been some hope for the Sony universe. Then then it would have felt like they were building towards something. I think there's a lot of superfluous stuff in this movie. I don't think it's the best by any means. This is not a great movie, but comparatively speaking, had a good time.
I will say, you've said it, and I've said it before, and I think Mike will probably echo it as well. The fact that these movies are coming out in twenty twenty four is wild to me. These movies feel like they should have been coming out in the mid tens, if not the late two thousands. Like this style of making superhero movies is not a thing anymore, and they now I hope they realize it, because they're not getting any further with any of this.
Sony is like country music.
It's only sort of ten years behind the times, Like country gets poppy eventually. Now country is getting a bit hip hoppy and it's always a little tenu. So Sony's just like oh, we figured out actually how to do a superhero movie too late.
Yeah, I've been hearing that this is doing so well that they might actually continue these Spider verse that they're trying to do over here. I would say this might be the best of the lot for me, and that includes those Spider Man movies, because I fucking hate it those things. Man, Oh God, could not stand those and I'm so glad that they're not coming out with any more of those. I don't care what happened to Peter Parker's parents. I don't care about the Sinister six.
Oh you're talking about the Andrew Garfield stuff.
Yeah, yeah, because that's all part of this, right, This is all Sony, Like that was Sony's oh we're good, we gotta make a Spider Man movie or else we'll lose the right kind of thing.
This is part of the MCU.
Well, this is no, this is the Sony verse.
It is this.
It is the Sony verse, Mike. But I think but once, once the MCU got a hold of Spider Man, I think Sony was doing a wait and see kind of thing. By then, they had released Andrew Garfield, and I think they thought they were going to have a trading situation where they were going to get Tom harl holland every other movie instead of five movies in a row for Marvel.
Right, yeah, which would be fine. It is just so strange to go about this through the villains rather than through the heroes and put together this whole collection of villains, because you're right, it's odd that Craven is a hero in this, and I don't know what's going to suddenly turn him into a villain other than his intense fear of spiders.
I suppose, Yeah, that was spiders that looked like men.
That could be.
That could be.
That's then next logical step of his prenatory fear that is somehow genetically passed down by his insane mother.
Right, Yes, the fear that his mother had is the same fear that he has too, which okay, but yeah, I didn't mind this one at all. If anything, I was like, Okay, I can see myself watching this again, no problem. It's kind of like those first two Venom films, especially the first one. I wouldn't go back to Carnage, but the first Venom film I've watched quite a few times. I think this is heads and shoulders above anything that comes close to Madame Webb. I mean that was just
the shit show. Horrible acting, horrible everything. Just the way that the whole story was put together was really bad. Still don't know why it needed to be a period piece other than that Madame Webb is super old in the comics and we needed to set this back in the three Peter Parker being born eighties kind of thing. I don't know, but yeah, I kind of enjoyed it. I was really glad to see Alessandro Nivola. I kept watching him through the whole movie, going is that Pollax Troy?
That looks like Pollax Troy and just that low talking that he did as Alexi's whatever rhino. I was like, Okay, yeah, this is pretty cool. The Foreigner, I don't know. He was just more of an annoyance to me than anything. But was it no kay villain? And I was glad when he died. I applauded when he died.
Yeah, they needed the foreigner.
See what we're talking about here is Sony owning every thing that came out of the Spider Man books. Basically, if it originated there, they get to use it. Unfortunately, there's only one decent hero to emerge from Spider Man, and that's fucking Spider Man. So they're left with these villains. And I think it's a good idea to give us these spinoff I want to see a Sinister six movie. And it's really easy to do that. You just make
a villain worse than them. Bob's your uncle. But they have to be villains to begin with, or what's the fucking point of this? Because we're not gonna buy the turn when they have to finally turn against Spider Man, They're gonna have to concoct some bullshit like they're fucking mystically controlled or some nonsense. But I can't see this Craven, no matter how badly he fears whatever, going after Spider Man the way he does in the books.
It reminded me a lot of the Scorpion King. When I watched that movie, I'm like, how is he the bad guy in the Mummy Return? It's like, what you know, When we were walking out of the movie, we saw the poster for the movie and it says heroes aren't born, they're made. Our villains aren't born, they're made. It's like, yes, Craven is a villain, but not in this movie, Craven is a villain, but not in this telling of the story.
Craven is the character in the I think to your point, Father Malone, the worst sin of this movie is the fact that it does not understand the character of Craven at all. It has taken the character of Craven and done something to him that I think is Wolverine esque, is what it feels like, like, Oh, we don't have access to Wolverine, so we'll just kind of make a
Wolverine movie without Wolverine. That's kind of what it reminded me of, like an R rated, well like an R rate like Logan essentially, but you know, if Logan was made by less capable people. Though I'm not sure I would put James Mangold in a camp of capable people given the amazing work he turned in with such classics like Dial of Destiny.
Well, it's better than X Men Origin's Wolverine. Oh boy, yeah, that.
Is the damningest of Fate praise.
Well, it's still a better movie than that.
I agree. I agree with you there.
Yeah, I would actually wouldn't mind seeing a sequel to this to see how Graven goes after his brother and I was glad the way that they slow built Chameleon. I mean they kind of handed it to us. At one point when he's singing like Tony Bennett and his
dad's like, oh, he's the Chameleon. I was like, okay, I mean, I'm on the whole Russian thing, and I'm so glad that they were like, oh yeah, these kids were raised in America, so it doesn't have to be Aaron Taylor Johnson putting on his whole Socovian accent quicksilver again. Oh my god. I was just like, please, no, I don't need that, because I mean Age of Ultron for me is one of the worst Marvel films that has been made, just because they didn't understand what the hell
to do with that thing. But I was once he started to speak with an American accent, I was like, oh, thank god, I'm I'm much happier.
Yeah, and you know, speaking to the James Bond of it all. Whenever his name got mentioned, I thought, well, that's a terrible idea. Honestly, watching this movie, I thought, oh no, I get it. I could see him as it.
Yeah, same thing. I said the exact same thing to Chris yesterday especially when he's like all dappered up and in London, he's got his brother's jacket on. I'm just like, look at this dapper motherfucker.
This guy could be bond And you know, you mentioned like the family thing where they kind of build in that we get the chameleon by the end, Like I would like a sequel that did feel natural, Like I enjoyed the dynamics in this family all the while dealing with the external threat, which is ostensibly Nevola as the Rhino. The effects for Rhino are a little bit ropey, not that great during that final sequence, but I gotta say it reminded me that as a child, I religiously watched
that Spider Man cartoon. That's the that's the Spider Man, Spider Man, that's where that you know, where that song came from. And the Rhino was always my favorite character on that show. I just thought he was the fucking coolest. So I like that we got him and it wasn't a giant fucking robot with Paul and Jamadi inside him.
Doing a horrible Russian accent in.
That role over the top, over the planet.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was interesting that they named checked Miles Warren, and I was just like, oh, man, I know, I know that name. And it took me a little while to realize that he was the Jackal, and I was like, oh fuck, are they going to build in the clone story to this thing? I hope not, because that's probably the worst thing that ever happened to Spider Man. Was the whole idea Ben Riley, Oh yeah, Ben Riley. And I mean, because there's more than just him, right, aren't
there more clones of Spider Man? Oh Jesus right.
I gotta say teasing the Jackal was pretty cool at having him be like a genetic splicing kind of a guy. Who right, you know, because let's face it, most of Spider Man's villains are based on animals, so we might as well have someone pulling all those strings.
Well.
It also is so much better that Rhino is a genetic thing, and I like the whole the medicine that keeps him from transforming and talking about pain that it causes when he transforms a little bit smarter than the original Rhino, who I think was what just he got stuck in the suit, like something happened and he's never going to leave that suit and I'm like, man, that.
Suit's gotta stink exactly like black masks mask just through his gall at that point.
I you know, I I think when it came to Alessandro Navola, who I mean, I think he's a great actor. I mean Jurassic Park three, you know, come on, he's also He also played Michael Imperioli's father in The Many Saints, The Many Saints of Newark, the Soprano's prequel. He's he's good. I wish they gave him more to do because it seems like they gave most of everything to Russell Crowe.
It's Russell Crowe, and you have everything to do?
Yeah, like Russell crow Is it just mirrored? Does it feel like we've gotten a glut of things with Russell Crowe in them all of a sudden.
Yeah?
Oh yeah, Glad either too.
Oh right now, there's that Netflix movie where he's like a psycho like driver that's supposedly pretty good. And then he was in the Exorcism, and then he was.
In a movie about the making of an exorcism.
Yeah right, well that was the Exorcism, and then the other one was, uh.
The Last Exorcist or something. Yes, the Pope Exorcist, which was a hoot by the way.
Which was great. Yeah, The Pope's Exorcist was a lot of fun. I'm super excited to see a sequel to that movie. Russell Crowe kind of steals the show. And that's too bad because I mean, again, to go back to what I was saying earlier, like Aaron Taylor Johnson is it's just one of those actors I don't get. I haven't understood it since Godzilla. I kind of got it when he was playing kick Ass. He was in Shanghai Knights as Charlie Chaplin many moons ago, like many
Moons Ago. Yeah, he played child Charlie Chaplin and Shanghai Knights. That was like one of his first acting roles. He was like a child. I just for me, He's like Sam Worthington and Joel Kinneman, and.
I like, like Joel Kinneman, do not compare them to that other fund.
Okay, how's this Sam Worthington, Jay Courtney.
Yeah, I get those two being lumped into the same category, and I kind of see Aaron Taylor Johnson, depending on the role, falling into that as well. But at the same time, you mentioned a couple where he's good and I think he's really good here.
Yeah, I think he's really good in Bullet Train. I really like him in that one. I'm curious to see him in this Nosferato. He's supposed to be in that as well, So curious. And he was okay in The Kingsman as well King's Man. Sorry, that's right. And apparently he was in Tenant, but I have pretty much no memory of that movie, which I'm really glad for because that was so awful.
Can I mention one weird thing in this movie? The movie starts with a prison break sequence in like in a Gulac.
But yeah, I kept waiting for what's his name from The Crimson Commando. I kept thinking of the prison break scene in Black Widow. I was just like, oh boy.
But while the production logos are going, and what is effectively the credit sequence, the theme music from The Hunt for Red October is play.
Yes, thank You.
Andrew was like, what is that music? And I was like, and sleep shall Bring New holes.
Yeah, I was an usher at a movie theater playing the Hunt for Red October.
Oh, I know that music. Intimately so wonderful.
Wonder In the the end of the movie with the Yeah, oh yeah, it's so good and yeah when that music comes up. Oh, it was a great movie to clean the theater too.
It absolutely was. So this movie starts and I'm like what what? No?
What? No?
And yet I mean I get it.
¶ The Russian Anthem Controversy
It's like a you know, it's a Columbia or Sony property, so they can get away with it.
But just use the Russian national anth just use any dump. That was weird. It was a weird way to start.
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I had totally forgotten about it. But yes, as soon as that music started, I was like I know this and yeah, Andrews like what is this? This is familiar to me? Yeah, that was wild. And yeah I just kept thinking of, like, well, all the prison break movies, but especially thinking of Black Widow breaking her father out of prison. I was just like,
is he in that same jail? Or is there was also a prison break in one of the Mission Impossibles that I think was also in a Russian prison, And I was like, all right, waiting for like, okay, open up this door or open up this door. But instead, as soon as he starts like crawling around on the walls, I was like, Oh, okay, this guy. It's not just strength, it's also this crawling and jumping ability. So all right, I guess that stuff that Calypso gives him is almost like super soldier serum.
So clearly defined where his superpower is in this movie, right.
I think they seem pretty defined. Actually, he doesn't necessarily commune with animals, but he has their powers and can sort of catch their drift. He's also a super strength and super agility.
Yeah, a very beastmaster. I kept waiting for, Like, there's one part where like a hawk is tapping on the glass window and I was just like, Oh, he's going to see through the hawk's eyes, But no, he doesn't.
You know.
In the comic that serum that Calypso gives him is basically like a super soldier serum like the Wakandan herb, but here they kind of use it like resurrection juice, and it has a side effect of the of the strength and the and and the connection to nature.
Yeah.
I found interesting the way that they did the opening and then going back in time and showing his origin story and speaking of Russell Crowe. There are a couple of times like when the lion attacks him and is
carrying him across the savannah. There's a shot where his hand is hanging and it's like brushing all of this, all this fauna, and I just kept thinking of that shot of Russell Crowe when he's touching the heads of the stalks of wheat, and I was like, I wonder if they're doing this as a little homage to Russell Crowe in Gladiator. You mean, yeah, a little Gladiator.
The violence in this movie. There's a particular sequence where he's taking out all of Rhino's men in the forest, which is incredibly bloody and kind of fantastic. Honestly, it's a it's a very rambo section of this movie. Uh, not to not to hammer this, but we're gonna have him acting this way, but we're not going to make him a villa. Just make him just can't you just give him like a diet danger diabolic kind of thing
where he just gets off breaking the rules. Like, just make him wanted for something other than doing something noble. Because when we start this movie, he's got a list like he's green Arrow or something like taking out like they all these these criminals. Basically, what they've done is turn Craven the Hunter into Craven the Punisher here, Yeah, it's.
Kind of dexter adjacent. He only kills bad people, like okay.
Well, yeah, I was actually thinking of the Punisher because I didn't dive into this area of the mythos. But when the foreigners like, oh he killed my mentor and he holds up a copy just happens to have a copy of The Daily Bugle with him, and it's like what Hunter kills Hitman or something? And I was like, well, who is that? Is that the Punisher? Who could that be? So I didn't didn't go back into the Wikipedia to find.
That one out. Yeah, that one's lost on me too.
But oh, thank god we got The Daily Bugle and every one of these Sony movies just to tie and Tias in. Oh, don't forget this is a Spider Man movie, folks.
At least they didn't have baby spider Man.
Oh god god.
Yeah, this one felt the most in universe with those Andrew Garfields to me, as far as like, oh there could be a Spider Man in this universe.
Yeah, well, this one felt the most realized of any of them. It seemed to know what where it stood in relation to the other movies and what it had to give, whereas Venom it seemed like and I think that, you know, from what I read, the producers were always like, this is standalone stuff. Yes, it kind of shares the universe, but not really, so I don't think they were ever looking to build anything on anything with those other movies.
They were hoping with Morbius, but Jesus Christ, what a fiasco and then Madam Webble.
It is crazy how many of these movies. They made. Three Venom movies, Morbius, Madam Webb and Craven the Hunter, and and don't forget Spider Noir the TV show.
I'm looking forward to that, actually, sorry.
Nicholas Cage, Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. But it's part of this is this is this is that that's technically the last entry in all of this, because that's coming out I think next year.
But that's part that's part of Into the Spider Verse, right, well technically so is this isn't it? No, But into the Spider Verse sort of stands outside of everything because all of the different franchises can be found within there, so that's kind of its own deal.
I don't fucking know. Anymore. How's that given the MCU of it all.
Neither.
It's they wanted all to be part of everything all the time.
Like they wanted their own universe where they kept all the profits, and they wanted Marvel to do all the work for them. I mean that that was the deal, right. Initially they they put up all the financing and Marvel got five percent of the gross and kept the merchandising. And then in twenty nineteen when they had to renegotiate, so Marvel wanted fifty percent of the gross, and that's when Sony was like, fuck you, we'll make our own Spider Man movies now, and Tom Holland brought them back
to the table. And then now what happens is so Marvel pays for twenty five percent of the production budget and takes twenty five percent of the profit and has kept the merchandising rights.
It's pretty smart.
Foreigner's mentor might have been somebody named Chance who ended up cooking up with the Black Cat. So oh wait, no, I take it back, Foreigner became romantically involved with the Black Cat.
So all these movies, we still.
Do not have a black Cat.
Come on, well, that was Silver and Black. That was the one that got canceled. Oh right, that was there. There was one that was Yeah, Silver and Black was going to be the Silver Sable and Black Cat movie. And I don't think they ever I'm not even sure they ever said who they were casting. I don't think it ever got that far. Maybe it did, I don't know. I don't I never heard who they had cast. But that that ended up going the way of the Dodo as well.
So remember when they made a Cloak and Dagger? What was that a TV show?
Right? When they made an inhuman's TV show? Sure?
Remember that one.
And then they literally referenced it in fucking Doctor Strange of all things.
Remember that New Mutants movie.
God man, this is like that.
This is in that same vein, right, It's just like it's a weird anomaly that stands out as its own thing when we're like the Look, I have my issues with the MCU, but for fuck's sake, this this makes the problems that the MCU is having look minor comparatively.
Well, Mike, I agree with you, Mike. I'll go one further.
I think this one actually could have fallen if you were to tell me this was part of the MCU. I would kind of buy it and was wondering, would wonder how they were going to tie it in. But you know, we've all got superhero fatigue these days, and
the problem with the reason we have it. We're all fucking pointing our fingers at Marvel, but it's really because of fucking Sony releasing poor effort after poor effort, along with DC not knowing what the fuck they're doing over there, and like, on top of that, we had twentieth Century Fox fucking shit up at least until what twenty twelve or so.
Oh god, yeah, yeah.
Obviously we're gonna burn out. They just keep giving us bullshit.
No, you're one hundred percent right, because there were so many clunkers amongst all of those I mean DC, I mean, in the last twelve fifteen years, it's been really fucking rough. I mean, maybe the Suicide Squad is the one that I appreciate from that, and that's probably because of fucking James Gunn where it just becomes the Guardians of the Galaxy on Earth type of thing. And yeah, it's I
¶ The Future of Spider-Man Movies
don't know, I could see this fitting into the regular MCU because I know Chris didn't like it, But I was of the opinion that this kind of fits with their style a lot more. And I could see now this Craven, I would actually see him teaming up with
Tom Holland rather than going against him. But yeah, I agree that this is more more of a quality than Sony has given us in a long damn time when it comes to these, and yeah, way better than some of those fucking X Men movies that they're doing for a while there.
I mean, X Men.
Two one of the best, but x Men three one of the worst. I mean, they just vacillated like crazy. It was like being throttled whenever you went to see one of those X Men films.
I could see this being a Netflix thing, That's what I could see this being. To mention, like Father Malone, you already mentioned The Punisher, that was a Netflix thing technically part of the MCU, like it was, it's its own thing, but it's part of the MCU. There's a lot of violence in Gore and that I look. I I do not disagree with you all in terms of
of this version of Craven working in the MCU. I think he would work just fine, given that they have to figure out a way to make Deadpool work at this point, And I don't think that this character is any more or less hard to handle or get a wrangle on than Deadpool would be to put in the MCU. I don't think he's going to be in the MCU, but I also don't think that I don't think that they're going to do anything with Craven in the MCU. Anyways.
It's going to be real awkward, real awkward when the Scarlet Witch sees Craven and is like, you look just like my dead brother, right, And it's going to be real awkward if we ever see Paul Giamatti in that mechanical suit, because Craven's going to be like, didn't I fight you already? Weren't you a mutant before or some sort of like genetic hybrid.
And on his way to the afterlife, Nikolai Cravenoff might run into Zeus.
Exactly and be like, you look just like Craven's dad.
The stars were so many they seem to overlap.
I guess my question to y'all is, given that this is the end of the Sony Spider Verse as it were in terms of theatrical releases, and you've already kind of touched on it a little bit, Mike, like, is this in the top third? And if it is in the top third, is that just because everything else is so bad as well? Like this movie didn't have very far to go to be better than everything else, Like Madam Webb is an affront to most cinematic good taste the Venom movies, You're gonna kind of you know, your
mileage will vary. I would go as far as to say, I think I enjoyed all of the Venam movies more than I enjoyed this movie. But for me, is this is this good on its own? Or is it just good because everything else that we've seen up to this point has been so kind of mediocre to outright bad.
I likeked it comparatively, and ianked it on its own.
Yeah, I think I'm there. I think I'm there with you. I mean I, like I said, I can really see myself watching this again. I can see this going onto my wife's plex playlist that she just repeats constantly and being like, Okay, I'm alright with this a lot more than things like you already mentioned Aaron Taylor Johnson and Godzilla that one ooof man oh man, that was that's a rough one.
I just he he for me is an actor that I'm just not super into in what he does. It just kind of always falls flat. And when when they when they announced that he was going to be Craven, I was like, okay, like all right, like he's already played a character in the MCU, Like we couldn't have found somebody else to play Craven. And I mean, clearly the MCU has no interest in doing anything with Craven.
So that's probably for me, the biggest shame is that we may never get Crave in the actual MCU the way he should because to both of y'all's points, like he's a pretty big part of the Spider Man mythos, Like he's a huge part of the Spider Man mythos. He's constantly hunting Spider Man.
Like well, and his brother, the Chameleon was the first villain in Spider Man one.
Yeah, So for me, it's just like it's almost like they kind of let the cat out of the bag, like they should have let the MCU do Craven, just like they probably should have let the MCU do Venom, you know what I mean.
Yeah, But they're going to eventually, that's the thing. Eventually we'll just somehow get all the rights back and then we'll get the other versions, including I'm now looking forward to the MCU's version of Craven because we're going to get the fucking psychopath hunter who is all braggadoccio and will hunt anything as just to prove that he can fucking do it, including villains, including heroes, including women, children who cares.
Yeah, I'm yeah, that's the thing. Is like, I picture Venom as not Venom Jesus. I picture Craven as a much more bloodthirsty, crazy guy, and this one I'm like, oh no, he seems like a pretty nice dude, And especially the way he's protecting the animals and stuff, I was like, oh yeah, if this guy is just all about taking down poachers, let's do it. I'm here for it.
And let's stop across the board.
Do not tease a comic accurate outfit that you're going to show us for two seconds, stop doing.
Because I'll tell you what.
The entire time, I kept thinking, like, when they announced that he was coming, I'm like, they're gonna do a Craven movie. Are they going to put him in that fucking vest, cause that could be weird. And then at the end of this movie, I'm like, yeah, I like it. Go I want to see him running around in that shit.
And they did the same thing that Fox did with Wolverine. They were like, oh, it would look dumb. It's like, well, no, I mean people popped like crazy and Deadpool Wolverine for when Wolverine put his like mask yellow suit. Yeah, people went ape shit for that, Like, hey, I'm sorry, but if you're gonna have him on your poster wearing it, you can't just show it in the last thirty seconds
of the movie. That's pretty that's pretty lame. Like all the advertising has him in that in the iconic you know, lion vest, and it's like, oh, we're just gonna show him sitting in his throne at the end of the movie. Okay, Like that felt so unearned, and the movie was like cee cee cee, He's craving. Now It's like, no, I don't think so.
I think it was totally earned. I'm just mad that they that they keep doing that and all the bullshit movies, and then when they finally get one right, I'm like, oh, no, I don't ever get to see him do that. I don't ever see him running around and throwing a spear in the middle of New York City with the fucking lion vest On.
Come on, now, well.
And that's the thing. That's the thing for me. I would have preferred it to be more accurate to the comic book. But again, then you, I guess you run into the issue of it looking and seeming silly.
I guess, well, you know, the thing is the thing that all the fans were clamoring for. That Craven's most famous book occurred in the middle of the nineteen eighties, and that's Craven's Last Hunt, where he has determined that he will go all out to kill Spider Man, and he believes he does it. He buries Spider Man in this like concrete coffin, and you know, buries him obviously, and then having completed his task, he goes and kills himself. And then that's the end of Craven as a character.
So I don't know why fans were hoping that that would be this adadation. It seems a little self defeating. I mean, I want to see that story and if they had known that this was going to be the last, then I would have suggested that they go for it, but clearly they thought they were going to continue. Nevertheless, that does leave the door open for the Marvel Universe to do that story. They could do Craven as a one off and have him be a villain who ends up killing himself.
I'd be totally satisfied with that.
He killed Spider Man. He means Spider Man's dead.
He is many years now.
Oh wow, is his clone still alive?
No, but we got but we got Miles.
Yes, we did have Miles Morales.
Thank goodness.
I think for me, with a movie like this and so many of these other non MCU but Marvel things, they are fighting an uphill battle because the MCU, for the longest time set the bar very high and was essentially like the high water mark of these kinds of things. Now that the MCU has kind of faltered a little bit and is kind of going back on the way that they've done things, I look at something like this and think to myself, like, Okay, so you did this.
You kind of just made this movie. It underperformed, You're not doing anything else with it, Like, why did we do this? In the first place, it's just for the continuation of the rights. It's just to hold down like the the rights. I'm assuming is kind of what it seems like, because again, nobody was clamoring for a Craven movie, just like nobody was clamoring for a ant May movie that they had talked about making for the longest time. Remember, that was one of the things that they were like,
we're gonna make a movie about aunt May. And it's like.
They didn't. They didn't announce that, didn't they.
They did, Yeah, they sure said that that's gonna happen. It's like who wanted that? And look, I mean to your point, Father Malone, Like I would say, in terms of villains, Batman has the best villains in DC, and
¶ Spider-Man's Rogues Gallery
I think Spider Man has the best villains in Marvel, Like.
Is that right? Do you think so?
I think he's If he doesn't have the best, he's up up near the top.
Yeah, I think I think he might be right. Spider Man does have the most outrageous Rose Gallery.
Electro Venom, Carnage, Scorpion, Craven, Unasure Technique.
Doctor Octopus, the Green Goblin, the hob Goblin.
Green Goblin alone.
Yeah, well, yeah, the whole family.
Yeah, the Fantastic Four has Doctor Doom, you know, and they have their people, and you know, Wolverine and the X Men have Magneto and their people. But like I think, for me, when I think of Spider Man, I think of Spider Man's like the Sinister Six, like his Rogues gallery of Villains reminds me of like the best of Batman's villains. And like to both of y'all's points, like, I don't think doing a Sinister Six thing was a
bad idea. I think they probably should have just done that though, as opposed to like trying to make this Sideways universe its own thing and then we'll make a Sinister Six movie, which is what I was assuming the plan was here in all this was to make a movie that had Madame Webb and Venom and Carnage and Borbious and Craven and all them together in a movie. Like That's why I'm assuming that this was eventually building towards. We are not getting that now, so we will never
know what they were going for. But it for me is just again like it almost feels like it failed in spite of the fact that it was trying to do something different from the MCU. But because the MCU has set the watermarks so high, we all expect quality, and when it's this differential of quality between the two, you can't help but just look at this and go like, why did we even make this? Like what what are Why are we not just letting the MCU do this? Is my question.
What's crazy is that they all tried to ape the MCU, or to go so far in the other direction that it became unintelligible. Where Whereas they had a chance here because they were locked into only doing villains to tell an entirely different kind of comic book story on screen, that we could have got behind villainous behavior, or you know, they could have made horror movies or you know, thrillers
with these. They could have gone in any direction they wanted as far afield from what Marvel was doing as possible and just make good movies of those and it would have invigorated the genre. Instead, we just got carbon copies of carbon copies.
Yeah, I mean, remember the way that they shoehorned Vulture into the end of Morbius and that deleted scene. It also is very telling with this movie, you know, because I used that run p app to see if there's extra scenes, no extra scenes in this movie, and I was like, oh, did they know that this was the end?
I don't think they did, but it felt very odd that they weren't going to use those mid and post credits as any sort of setup for, you know, bringing back I can't remember that actor's name, Dehan whatever, the guy's name that played gone. Yes, the green goblin that looked like he was had an unfortunate disease.
Yeah, that's what we want from that character, certainly. Right, Look, either give us a goblin face or give us a helmet, don't try and fuck around in between, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm just looking at all the members of the Sinister Six and all of the different incarnations. It's pretty remarkable. But you're right, Chris, there are a lot of great villains for Spider Man to go against. I mean just looking at the later recruits, you know, with like Beetle and Shocker and Grim Reaper and Lizard and Living Brain just that. Yeah, there's a ton of great people that he could go against at any time.
Evidently, Craven was going to be the backup villain for Mysterio and spider Man Far from Home, but they were denied the right to use the character. Ultimately, they tried to use him again some other time and were told they couldn't use him.
It still doesn't make any sense that they used Electro in that that last Spider Man movie, because he doesn't know who Peter Parker is, or doesn't know that Spider Man is Peter Parker, at least according to their own fucking movie.
Yeah.
Well, there was a lot of problems with the timelines in that movie and the melding of the different world. I think they did a pretty good job considering all of the different balls they had to get into the air. But yeah, a lot to be desired. Maybe work on that script another six months, another two three passes.
Which seems to be a common refrain when we talk about these newer films, especially things like Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice or some of the other ones that we've said, you waited this long, Why didn't you wait just a little bit longer and make it better.
Yeah, they've waited twenty thirty years in some cases, and they're like, okay, and now here's the release date, Go make the movie.
Wait?
Why?
Yeah, Why is the money dependent on that date? What kind of outdated system are well?
Is that the problem?
Now?
The system is just now fully broken where we can see all of the flaws, and you know, it gives me a bit of heart that I feel a bit heartened in that James Gunn has been hammering over and over again, we're not starting the movie until the script is ready. That's great, Please do that, but make sure the script is actually good.
I will say, though, now that now that this is over, yeah, like that, now that this is over, now that this Spider Versus done, where do they go from here? Do they just does Sony just give the rights back to Marvel and say, here you go, Mia Kolpa, we fucked
around and found out long enough. Maybe you guys can have the rights back and we'll just sell it to you for you know, large sums of money, like they should have just done long ago, as opposed to effectively getting egg on their face with like six movies like That's the thing I don't understand here. As much as I appreciate that y'all enjoyed this movie broadly, this movie
is getting poorly reviewed broadly. This movie is making no money broadly, this movie is a failure in terms of box office, in terms of the financial side of it. Just speaking financially, none of these movies have been successful other than the Venom movie. That's what I don't understand here, Like the sunk cost fallacy is a thing. Stop putting more money into the fucking hole at some point, it's it's weird to me. Venom is a movie that I understand why it got two sequels. It got two sequels
because it made money. I don't understand why they made Madame Web and Morbius and this movie because they ultimately serve no purpose. Morbius goes nowhere and frankly, all it does is kind of convolute the multiverse more. And Madame Web again, I'm not sure what the point of that movie was other than to pay for a home in Malibu for Dakota Johnson. I'm assuming as if she needs the money, given that her parents are both insanely wealthy
and so actors of note in their own right. I just don't understand what they were trying to accomplish here without Spider Man. I think, to y'all's point, maybe it was a well, maybe we'll get Spider Man at some point and Marvel will play ball with us, and you know, we'll get the opportunity to use Spider Man in our movies at some point. But like, yeah, you had to make good movies for Marvel to give you the opportunity
to have Spider Man, and they never did. And what's crazy to me is JC Chandor has made some pretty great movies. A Most Violent Year is quite good, Margin Call is quite good. Those are quite good movies. This is like for JC Chandor, this is a lesser movie in his filmography on top of everything else. But what's weird to me is I just don't understand why they kept making these movies when they saw that they weren't
being successful. And to further point, if they saw they weren't being successful, why did they keep making them unless it was solely and purely to just be like, we want to keep the rights to this, and so we will.
You asked where Sony's going to go with this afterwards, and I think they're going to go back and hire Sam Raimie and have him do his fourth Spider Man film with Tommy maguire. I think that's a good opportunity. Otherwise, yeah, they might just hand it all back and be like, Okay, it's Tom Holland from here on out until he decides to retire from this role, which would be a really bad thing.
I think.
I think Robert Downey Jr. Is kind of having buyer's remorse with his like, oh, I'm not going to be Iron Man anymore coming back and doing doom. But at the same time, they probably had an army of dump trucks to just back up and pour some money on him, because I think they know just losing Downey losing Chris Evans like those were major blows. They really shouldn't have been.
I mean, a smart studio would have been able to pick up and carry on for there, but I think the lack of those two characters had really sent them into tailspin.
They did too good of a job and making those characters compelling, and they didn't do a good enough job and making other characters compelling. Like I know, Father Malone's
a huge fan of Captain America. I am a massive fan of some of the other characters in the MCU, But I'm fans of the MCU interpretations not necessarily like the comic books and the movie interpretation of Ant Man are vastly different, but like Iron Man and Captain America, very similar to the comic books, like very much kind of what you would expect if you read the comic books at least of a certain time in a place.
And like, I think that there's some of the consistency, that mark that the MCU had was tied to the consistency of the actors involved. And I'm not saying that people are lesser or better than Chris Evans and Robert Downey Junior, but Chris Evans and Robert Downey Junior elevate the shit out of anything that they're in, almost just
by the sheer act of them being in it. Maybe not too little, but you know, not everything can be, you know, making you so much money you never have to work again, and are only working because you want to, not because you have to.
I think I think it's kind of obvious. They thought that they were going to be trading back and forth with Tom Holland, and that they were committing these characters, and then after a while, Tom Holland would be able to interact with their villains the way he was interacting
with the regular MCU villains. So I think they just planned a whole bunch of movies just willy nilly and put them into production without any sort of thought beyond that, figuring that when Tom Holland was involved, the Marvel people would be involved in one way or another and they their movies would be elevated. So I think that's why all of them are out there. I think going forward,
I think you're right, Mike. I think we're going to get either another Andrew Garfield or another Toby MacGuire movie. And I think the way that's going to happen is they're going to multiverse Tom Holland over to get us back into those movies is and that I'll be like Marvel repaying their favor, if not an entire three or two, like a duo of Spider Man in a movie. I think that movie's on the way, and then I think we'll get like standalone either well, either Peter Parker or Peter Parker.
The thing I like about the Spider Man movies and the Spider Man stories is that they're New York centric. I mean, yes, we've had him go like with Tom Holland going over seas and going to Washington, DC, like
they're taking place outside of New York City. But I like that they're so New York centric and there's smaller stories that it doesn't have to be the world is going to be destroyed by a magical blue beam that shoots out of someplace or beams down from someplace, like save that stuff for the Avengers, and they do, and I think that's really smart. And I think that that's one of the problems I've been having more with the the DC movies, is that everything seems to be the
world could end. Like Batman's stories are smart, especially the Chris Nolan Batman, where it's like it's just taking place here in Gotham, it's not affecting the entire world. But then you get Superman and those are like, oh, I'm going to destroy all of Metropolis plus three quarters of the earth that feels like and he's spinning around, you know. And that's Superman. He's a god. He can do whatever
he wants. But Spider Man's not a god. And I like that these are such smaller stories where it's like a person versus a villain or two. You get in trouble and it's three, but a person versus a villain or two that he can defeat, but it takes a whole lot for him to do that.
Yeah, you know, ultimately, Spider Man is a street level hero for Marvel. Yeah, and that's what we like about him. That's why we like Punisher, That's why we like Daredevil. We like these guys on the street doing minor work that regular people can't but isn't necessarily the entire island of Manhattan is going to explain. And I think that's what everyone needs to start focusing on with these superhero movies is lower the stakes, make the stakes more personal somehow.
That that always works for me, and particularly that works in Spider Man. That's what's always worked. Those are emotional stories about a young man and you know the crazy world he lives in, in his interpersonal relationships and stuff. So weirdly they kind of carried that ethos here to the Craven movie.
Yeah, even though he was globe popping quite a bit, like back and forth between Siberia and London a ton but and Ghana.
Yes, they just didn't want Craven to be a villain.
No, they wanted they want their heroes.
Yeah, they wanted him because they don't have Spider Man.
Right, And I think by now they figured out we're not getting Spider Man. He's not going to be interacting with our villains. Let's try and spin this and make it good. But it was too little, too late.
And not only is it too little too late, at the end of the day, they sho have put something in place to secure the opportunity to have Spider Man long before they were like, well, just wait and see, like and you fucked around and found out like big time. Yeah, Because again, like that's why I go back to, like, they just kept making these movies and doubling and tripling and quadrupling down on them, and it's like, at what point are we just gonna stop and stop making these
goddamn movies? Finally now apparently when when again, I think to y'all's point, like, for as much as I didn't like Craven, I will concede it's better than pretty much anything else I've seen in the Sony versus, other than the Venom movies, which are kind of their own thing, at least for me.
Anyways, Yeah, they just kept setting that plate, you know, going around like all right, everybody's got the roles, everyone's got the salad, or we're coming to the main course. Main courses coming up. Uh, Peter Parker was supposed to bring it. Where's this Peter Parker guy? No turkey on Thanksgiving? Sorry, guys, whole meal.
Is now ruined well, and you know, and Peter Parker's usually good at those males.
So it's oh yeah, yeah, it's doubly damming.
And male slap the green Goblin's hand.
I'm excited for a new Raimi.
Yeah, from my mouth to God's ear, I hope yeah.
That's what, honest to God, that's what I hope too. I hope that they give him the opportunity to do a fourth movie the right way and just do it, like who cares at this point, Like people were clearly into Toby maguire coming back as Spider Man. It wasn't just us, like millennials and Gen xers, like everybody was into it. So I just don't I I again, I don't know why Sony doesn't want to play ball with Marvel, Like, shut the fuck up, give him the fucking rights and
let's just be done with it. You guys suck at making Spider Man movies. You just do because you can't even make Spider Man movies. That's why they suck at making Spider Man movies, because they have yet to actually make a motherfucking Spider Man movie. They've just been like, well, it's likeingingly related, and we'll mention Spider Man's name, like wow,
that's fun. Does that embarrass you as much as I'm embarrassed for you, because I'm embarrassed for Sony When they're like, hah, spider Man, get it, and it's like, well, we know we've heard of Spider Man, like we're aware of Spider Man, very clearly aware of Spider Man. Thank you?
Are you aware of my boyfriend Spider Man? He lives in Canada, so bizarre to me. All right, let's wrap
¶ Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up
up this discussion of craving the Hunter by going around the room here father alone, Where can people hear more of you?
Sir?
Go over to weirding Way Media and where you'll find my show Midnight Viewing, where these two gentlemen are co hosts for our horror anthology podcast. We're taking a look at Tales from the Dark Side. But Midnight Viewing is also.
A current show.
I do a weekly round up show, and there's also a show about anthology movies. In general, that's all under the midnight viewing banner. I suggest you all't go there.
Father alone almost puts me to shame with the amount of work that he does, which is heads and tails above what Chris Stashy does, which is clearly next to nothing. Chris, tell the fine people what you're working on these days?
Essentially nothing. I've been working on myself for the last five months, and I occasionally post audio diversions over at Weirdingwaymedia dot com, where you're probably listening to this, and if you aren't listening to it there, go to Weirdingwaymedia dot com and check out the twenty plus shows that we have on the network, including The Projection Booth, Midnight Viewing, Eighties, TV Ladies, whole host of things that you can find overt Weirdingwaymedia dot com.
What about you, Mike, Chris, you're being very falsely modest. Chris works on a ton of stuff, usually with me, sometimes with Father m alone, and sometimes on his own or with other folks. You can always check out some of the things that we work on, such as The Shabby Detective. You had another Columbo podcast, The Life and Times of Captain Barney Miller as well as Yes, the
Projection booth where Chris occasionally shows up. We just had him recently on an episode about Kamikaze eighty nine, which was a lot of fun and I'm excited for people to hear that one. So yeah, come on over to Weirdowaymedia dot com to hear all that. Please make a donation. If you donate to my patreon or Chris's Patreon, you
can get at the ten dollars leveling up. You can get copies of ranking on that I'm sorry, ranking on Bond, which is our monthly James Bond podcast, and Father Malone has a pod, has a and Father Malone has a Patreon as well, which is patreon dot com, slash fotherom alone perfect makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks guys, and thanks everybody for listening.