ANTHOLOGIES ATTACK! Batman The Animated Series - Part 2

Dark Destinations may be end times Night's creature. Why would a few more casually struggle me because of their blood? Will join yours a radio drama anthology. You are wrong how you figure Every mark on Mongo is hunting you down,

not you, your partner, he said, I didn't have a ray gun. Full cast performances set in the haunted corners of the globe. Darkness is coming for you. That's the fear that taunts me. Dark Destinations by fatherm Alone at Weirdingwaymedia dot com weird Welcome back midnight viewers to Anthologies Attack, where

we peer outside the horror genre to experience anthologies and all their very glory and as always helping me share them midnight view as my co host. He's yours too, Antonio lapoor Ola Padre Malone. Tonight is part two of our look at the anthology episodes of the groundbreaking Batman, the animated series. Previously, we talked about season one's Almost Got Him that featured five tales of Batman as

told by the Rogues Gallery of Villains. This one's a little different. Three tales by entirely different narrators, and the third tale is actually just their tale in the end, we are looking at legends of the Dark Night. This originally aired on October the tenth, nineteen ninety eight, written by Bob Goodman from a story by Goodman and Bruce Ten. Although there are three previous Batman legends mentioned as the whole episode is inspired by the works of Bill Finger,

Dick Sprang, and Frank Miller was also it was also directed by Dan Reeve. And it's kind of loosely based on a seventies Batman comic, and that's about Bruce Wayne, and he takes these kids camping, as billionaire philanthropists I guess, are known to do to take random children camping, and they are

all discussing, well, what do you think Batman's like? In one little kid's well, I think Batman has kind of like like Jim Brown, the famed movie star football player and who's decked out of all these ten year and all this stuff. And the other guy, well, I think Batman is more like kind of a vampire character, and I think Batman looks more like

what you imagine Man batted. And all of a sudden Batman shows up and they're like, dude, mister Wayne, where'd you get that cheap ass Batman costume and he's like, well, it looks like Mike costume is only meant to frighten criminals and not the innocent, And then they go back to the roasting marshmallows. I kind of love that though, waits showing Hey everybody, I'm Batman and nobody believed it. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a great

it's a great. It was a great classic. But this episode, I remember when it dropped, I'm thinking, I recommend it, but I love

this episode. It's might be my favorite of the whole series. Well, no, I love Robin's reckoning and heart of ice in the original show, but if the new episodes his neat for the main reason of just the varying art styles, the way you get to see, you know, basically the two most influential kind of mini eras of Batman, the classic Dick Sprang era from the fifties, where when you think of old timey Batman, that's generally

what people think of, giant typewriters, big smile on Batman's face. You know what the Adam West Show ultimately was, I think came out of basically of that Dick Sprang art era, which still Bill Finger was writing because Bill Finger wrote it from the original Detective run and he wrote pretty much straight through up until the sixties, when then he got, you know, forced out

in favor of the younger hippie generation. Like everything else. You know, I've read I reread the Mankowitz script from nineteen eighty three, his version of The Batman, and it was it is one from the Bill Finger Dick Sprang era. He's just more serious in it, but still he Mankawitz just unloads with the joker. The joker is a joker in this thing. He is one liner machining. Yeah, the entire script, and mank is really good at that. I mean he wrote when he led he wrote Superman. Everybody

old Mario Pooso's the script was awful. Mario Puoso basically wrote an episode of The Batman Show and getting four hundred pages one hundred pages of it. And I remember this old documentary on a Dick Donner was like, He's like, don't want to see Superman be made a fool of That was his mantra in the movie. We're not making Superman to be a fool in this movie. And Poozo, but poo Z those deal being Boozo, you know, writing The Godfather. His deal was iron plaid and mank was brought in as a

creative consultant. But Tom maykowoins wrought supermantent. And my two favorite James Bond movies, which one is did He Right? Live and Let Die? Oh? Yeah, no shit? And The Man with the Golden Gun. The Man with the Golden the best music and like the most like because that disco hit with the Man with the Golden Gun. And oh man, it's so good. It's Lulu is it Lulu? Oh in the British pop sensation. Yeah, absolutely, the craziest Christopher Lescaramenga and of course Livin Lande is Paul

mccar. The score of the picture is the best James Bond score out of all of the films. You think, so that George Martin, This is George Martin. I was it John Berry does on Her Majesty Secret Service? Was it John Barry? Yeah? John Barry was still Yeah on a magoed Secret Service is pretty good because that was got the you know, we've all the time in the world, the Louis Armstones, but liv leed Die is just got the coolest music. It is such a dated picture, and like

the attitudes in it are ridiculous. But you know, black folks, Sorry, James Bond movie, that's pretty in nineteen seventy four, that's pretty progressive, even though they're the bad guys and it's ridiculous, it's silly. Those faces are still on the screen and they're breaking ground. And I gotta tell you, Scaramenga not Scaramenga, what's his name in uh ros Anga? I guess that was the Anga phase of Bond is really good. Oh my god,

he's my favorite Bond villain. He is so evil and he's so arrogant, and he's so ridiculous with that mister big makeup, Like what the fuck

was I Oh my god, I love it. He's so crazy as a character and he's so fun and it's yeafic codo for fuck's faith. Yeah, is a fucking Bond villain that nobody The movie gets written off now because of all its problematicness. Yeah, and you know you have a right to do that. But I think the spirit of the thing was not racist. I

think the spirit of the thing was subversive. I think Mankowitz was like, let's stick at black people in everyone's faces, and like, yes, they're the villains in this fucking piece, but you know what, the every Bond movie previous was all white guys and anyways, they're yeah, they're the villains, but you know, they're kind of like anti imperialist villains to a certain degree. There's a certain sexiness to their motivation to a certain movie like funck

the White Man. Look, we're from eighty or from more the hell they were san Monique, san Monique were this you know, probably this British protectorate or have you that's gone through all this horrible things. Look. For me, the more racist thing is that there just aren't more black people in all the rest of the James Bond movies. I'm sorry that they're all villains here, but the sheer number of black faces on screen in nineteen seventy three,

yeah, YEAHU Look. The thing is the parallels between Bond and batmanner sort

of fucking and especially in the seventies, was a big thing for Denny O'Neill was to like kind of like Fond was cool, and he's, well, let's make Batman a little bit cooler. So they added that kind of international player with rayshaw Ghoul and a lot of that, and the legal assassins and doctor sins in a couple of these international villains, yeah, doctor, yeah

Man. And but for the most part, you know that seventies Batman eventually got back to Gotham City, you know, like with that that Terry Austin, Marshall Rogers art and I think Michael Barber, I can't remember that side of the Joker thing that that era kind of brought him back to Gotham, and Rayshawqull pops up every now and then. Yeah, I've stayed in the previous episode. My feelings, Yeah, you don't like I mean, it's okay, I get it, but I don't want to spend any time in

that. I don't like to spend too much time with him just a little bit. And I just want Batman patrolling the rooftops of a gothic Gotham and like swooping down on villains and then a villain coming to town and fucking shit up. That's all I need. He I think it's dead. We got

Danian out of it, and that's fine as long as I guess. I'm a big Damien fan on this show. It was Tim Drake, but it was a mishmash of Tim Drake and Jason Todd's origin or whatever. But I like this little kid Robin on this show a lot too. So in the original initial run, in the initial run of Batman, the animated series, that's Dick Grayce. Yeah, and Dick's nineteen. He's away at college and

that's why he's only in a handful of episodes. So by the time we get to the New Adventures of Batman or Batman's New Adventures, that's Tim Drake as Robin. And I know, night Wing shows up, so we get Dick Grayson as well. Yeah, we get night winged. And that was the first time night Wing had appeared anywhere outside of comics. Have we skipped

Jason tom Yeah, they skive Jason Todd. They did it. I think they did a comic book follow up to this season a couple of years ago, and you know, they wreck conned Jason Todd and Red Hood in between the Tim Drake and that's flame Man. They just make a hannimated movie. Then this is Jason time. Now. You know what, no matter who Robin had been at that moment, if it had been carry Kelly, she

would have died. Yea. Everyone wanted Robin to die. Everybody, but you know, and I know a little off track, but the Robin that Jason Todd death of Robin, and if you read interviews with some of the writers and editors and stuff like Danny and you especially like that was kind of like his death kind of like organically happened, almost like they had written this

new character into the book and he showed up. But he was a redheaded plone of Dick Grayson circus parents all that, you know, the same origin killer Kroc had killed his parents or something like that. And then within a year or two the crisis happened, the one on Infinite Earths, the one on Infinite Earth, the same very one. The comic book series that got me into comics just fascinated and just like the amount of superheroes and that existed.

I just knew there were seven guys of the super Friends, and all of a sudden there was a thousand superheroes. But anyways, that being said, they revamped everybody and rebooted comics. Will be rebooting comics thirty years before, yeah, he fifty one hundred years. I think the first reboot was the Silver Age at DC. First you had the Golden Age, you know, Buckethead Flash and Purple Cake, Green Lantern, and then all of a sudden you got hal Jordan and Barry Alice the first pin of reboot. And

then in the eighties they rebooted again. They took their vast multi verses squeezed them into one. Everybody got a new origin. Jason Town. Jason Todd was now a street orphan whose dad had been murdered by two Face, and Batman met him after he was boosting the wheels off the Batmobile. Tim Drake

got that origin on the cartoon. Oh okay, Tim Drake in the comic books was Bruce Wayne's neighbor and he liked he was and he was a little boy at the circus when Dick Grayson's parents died and he figured it out. And then when the whole baby the Bat's got to admire the kids pluck right. Yeah, he's known as the smart he's the smartest Robin. Oh okay, Yeah, But on this show, I like, I don't care, it doesn't matter. I like the fact that there's like an eleven year old

Robin on this show and it's really neat. In this episode, we get Dick Grayson and Mary Kelly. Yeah, we got three robins text. Yeah, don't he's not tim episode. But this episode is cool because, like I said, it's based on that old comic from the seventies. I can't remember what it's called comic what the original com fifth ky I got this when the movie came out, right before when the movie on that time, this

player had a man bat over Vegas story in it. It's called so that it's based kind of loosely on the on a Batman short story called The Batman Nobody Knows By written by Frank Robbins. Was like, I'm not too familiar with this work. Seventies comic author probably and art by the famed Dit Giordango. Yeah, he is, like you, premiere inker in DC comics from the seventies, eighties and into the nineties. And he was a pretty good penciler too. He did a lot of Batman stuff stuff looks a little bit

like Jimmy Parrow's as that kind of traditional kind of looking Batman. And he was the publisher of the Editor in Chief too. That's where I mainly knew him from. And then you know, obviously later what marvelous talent he was. He was just like this look Levable guy looked like super Mario. Yeah, hey, they's other pictures of the comic. So that's kind of loosely based on it. And as we said a little earlier, you know sees Bruce Wayne takes these kids camping and they all kind of give their idea of

what Batman. But in this episode, it's a little more organic. It's a little more organic. It's three little kids wandering around Gotham City and there and one of them looks like Kerry Kelly actually, and that pretty much is y K. I'm sure her story is just her fantasy of Batman talking,

well, what do you think Batman play? And the first, you know, the first kid starts talking and he's like, well, my uncle's a security guard at the bankers oh no, at the museum, and he saw Batman and Robin and he says, Batman's really nice and he makes jokes and he does this and that and then also and we all know that ba yes,

because here it is yes and no hear me. He's describing the Batman that if you know you're in our neighborhood of age, the first Batman you ever saw was Adam weist and that Adam West looks fun and all, you know, smiling and all stuff. And like I said earlier, the Adam

West Show took a lot from the Dick Sprang art era of Batman. Yeah, not only did it sort of ape the style just visually the way they sent decorated and the costumes and everything, but the animated opening sequence of Batman the Great Tease, Yes, that was the animated opening sequence because I just wanted a cartoon to find that's the exact style of art they're presenting to us here, as when we go into the first tale, this is the Dick

Sprang look. So you probably have some familiarity with it, even if you haven't seen this episode, if you've ever seen the Adam West cartoon. And so each of these stories, I like this one better than Almost Got Him, because here we get the different flavors of Batman, a little villain. Yeah, but the voice is even because here they've cast Gary Owens as Batman, who is the voice of the fifty sixty. We've got your clue about

stealing lefter, but comedy is finished. A famous line from Pallayachi the Opera got a sad clown and Michael McKean as the joker Truth be Told, strings never wear my section. I'm much better on the keys, doing a very Jack Benny sounding jokers. They're like, oh, that sounds like Jack Benny. It's Jack Benny punched with something else. Yeah, Michael mckein's really good at bining voices and doing Have you ever heard his Vincent price? No,

it is the greatest Vincent price you will ever hear. Oh wow, I gotta find that. But I thought as soon as he started talking, I was like, oh, thank god, Michael McKean is. Yeah, he'll get exactly the tone that they're shooting for, which is that sort of more whimsical Batman. They like, come on jump and the Robin is sounding a little kid's voice. It's the same little kid who's telling the story, isn't it. Yeah, I know it might be a separate act. It might

be a separate actor. Okay, we'll have to we'll have to google that one. But it's got the giant typewriter or the giant prop space and stuff in it. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, it's the music means oh, it's the piano keys. Yeah, the giant piano keys. It's all like the daring do and Cliffhangery kind of stuff that we expected from comics up until nineteen eighty five. Yeah, and just but the artist

really pretty. Oh my god, it's gorgeous. Look giveing that old joker with the smile that seems to be larger than his face and the big old cheeks. Yeah, I love it. I love it. The that style kind of evolved into what a Batman and the Brave and the Bold became, which is a kid is you know, really aimed at seven year olds. I know a little eight year little boy who like that's just that was his first Batman and he loved it. But I watched that show and that show

Great Man. Yeah, it's like a banana sequel to the Adam Was show almost. That's another favorite voints there for me. He's so fucking good. He's not. He's a different Yeah, the Hovers of Justice. So you are sick, like it's really good. But it's that kind of same Dick sprangy On style that you see in this little bit, and it's just a neat, little three minute short. You know, it's just really cool. I like you a lot. I know this season there's another anthology kind of

episode. There's the holiday one and they but that one is just two or three stories. It's like Harley and Ivy with Bruce Wayne and I think something with the Joker on New Year's Eve, and then I think Clay something, Clay face or something. But this is an adulos. It's three separate little short stories. But there it's all. It's not as interesting as this one. This one has a really cool framing device, and the framing device puts the kids in the imaginary space and we get to see history, a little

mini history. We get to see a golden age Batman with the Dick Sprang look and the old kind of classic Bill Finger dialogue, Come on, old chum, that type of stuff. And like you said, Michael mckein's joker, what a great live action joker. He would have been, Oh my god, I know he's so he's so long, and that face and the eyebrowns right like David Saint Hubbins era. Michael mc as the joke. If they had made the ink Witz script, Michael McKean would be the perfect joker.

Is the joker like running from mayor or somebody's or Thomas Wayne was at the In the opening, Thomas Wayne is running for mayor and Joe Chill does kill him, but he does it at the behest of the Joker. But he's already the Joker. Oh, he's like, there's no Yeah. His opening is like a shade being drawn in a window and someone giggling in the darkness. So yeah, yeah, he's the Joker. I read that. Wow, I hit twenty something years ago. I like, when the internet

first existed. That was one of the first things I'd hunted down, like drew script rama or something like that. Oh man, and read that. Man, the transcripts drive me crazy. I don't need your transcript I can watch the movie. I can hear what they're saying. What did they intend for the ants to say? Yeah, I want to see where it differs. I don't want to see the shooting draft either. No, give me the fucking that the draft that they shot them actually shot the movie with.

Yeah, because so so for so. You know, Father Malone and I both have you know, backgrounds in movie making a little bit. We know how scripts work, and we've written a few ourselves, and I've made a

movie and stuff. When a movie comes out, they when we gets made they have the script that they're gonna make the movie off of, right, and then when the movie's done, they go back and take the movie and make that into the script, so that there's a script of the movie that's exactly what you see on screen, but that's not the script they used.

They shot the picture, and they published those scripts like yeas books, yes, if that was the script, and they're like, you learned how a script's supposed to work and all that stuff, but you don't see how a script actually is that you actually make a movie. I go, I can tell you it's just the short film I'm making. Now there's the script I got, and what the script that I have that I've made any edit.

I always thought when they published those shooting scripts that it should be printed on alternate the first the shoot, the actual script right before they film, Yeah, could be printed on alternate pages so you can just see the differences. Like he was gonna say this, well, something happened on set, and

now he's saying this, but I do. The cool thing is the Star Wars scripts, on the other hand, that I had as a kid that I got, you know, the annotated screenplays and copies, those were actually the fucking scripts they made the movie off of, because there are a lot of differences going on. They're longer, although you know, there's no like stuff like Blue five, but they're pretty close though there's like I remember, the scripts themselves were a little different. Yeah, and a lot of times

I look those things. That's how I learned how to write scripts. I mean, yeah, it's those books and those like annotated ones are really good. Now listen, the plot of the fifties inspired sprang Finger number is totally irrelevant. It's just a little pop confection. But I got to ask Antony when that one comes to an end the first time you're watching it, I'm sure you were like me, when is that? Carrie Kelly? Kept asking myself, did they just do I know that aircuts tribute to Carrie Kelly?

I don't know as soon as but before that, oh, are we talking about the cameo? Yeah, they run into another little kid who's like long, stringy white hair, and he's got a boa wrapped around him and he's just feeling and he's just like, hey, who's talking about Batman? I love Batman? All those muscles, the tight rubber armor and that flashy car I heard it can drive up walls. Yes, sure, Joel, Hey, what happened to Cozy's the ARSONI hast happened. You should have seen the

fire. It was fabulous, clearly, Joel Schumacher. This is coming out in nineteen ninety eight, a few months after that fucking awful movie Eliot Batman Forever, for all its terribleness, is at least trying to be good some bulk because that opening scene with two faces really good. I agree, that's my favorite part of the movie. My favorite part of that film, which is almost redeems the movie, is the you need hell parvey. Yeah.

That exchange. Yes, Holy God. The familiarity between these lunatic yes was so real for me, like it brought that comic like screamingly to life. And Tommy Jones' performance, which is understated and subdued in that beginning scene when he's talking to the guy and he's saying, we want to do this and we want to do that, I'm like, you can almost forgive him for not being Billy Dy Williams, but I can't forget. And I can't forget

because the rest of the performance is just it's just awful. It's just trying to compete with Jim Carrey and he's just doing the joker. They're both just doing the Yeah, they're both just doing the joker. And I thought that Tommy Y. Jones could not santion his buffoonery. And he's worse. He's worse. I'm like, dude, you have an oscar Why did you take this role? Why did why? Why is this? Did nobody get Like we talked about this last time. We were talking about the when they were

coming up with the script for Batman Returns. Why didn't he crack a comic book. Harvey Dent is a scary motherfucker. He should have been a dark heart at the center of that movie. Here's just another cackling villain from the sixties. I don't think they've ever gotten Harveydent quite right. In The Dark Night. It's pretty close, but we get two seconds of it. We get two seconds of him, and he doesn't evolve into two face. He's

just fucked up. Harvey Dent getting revenge and yeah, he's doing the coin and he's being you know, murderers and stuff. But Harvey Dent's the district attorney who becomes a crime boss. Yeah, the appearance that we got in that movie. It's all reacting. Yeah, and I want to see what Harvey Dent does from the get go on screen and you know, robbing the Second National Bank on the second of February. Okay, that's pretty too facey

as he can get. That opening scene is great and even ends with the blink put or the helicopter with the ying yaning painting on it and it crosses into the Statue of Freedom. Okay, why the movie's still through the old movies, they all thought Gotham was New York City for some reason or the other. It's always a most important city in the country. I'm like, no, it's New Jersey. Well, I think that we all thought that because I was one of them, because the city of New York is often

referred to as go. Well, naturally it's an East Coast city. Blah blah blah. I've always liked the idea that it's Chicago occupies the space of Chicago versus metropolis. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. I just don't like Gotham City being in the Midwest. Yeah, there's something about it being a landlocked that doesn't suit the back I'll eight. I also by the way, do not like the idea that it's like San Francisco and Sacramento, that

Gotham and Metropolis can see each other with binoculars. Yeah, that was a weird thing that I that Zack Snyder did among his many weird things, that was really weird. I like all from convenience so on. Thing I did like is he made Metropolis a district rather than a part of a state. But that's just in the minutia because you know, I sometimes the manusia is better than the munus in the movie, but clearly there. Yeah, and it was like a Metropolis. It was Metropolis MC, like the district of

you know. Okay, that is clever. I'll give him that DM Metropolis DM the district of Metropolis and Gotham was something I don't know. But them being over the bay is stupid. Well, then why does protecting Gotham Exactly? Can't Superman protecting area just greater than Metropolis, like when he's listening to what's happening in China at the theory was America that Gotham is basically in New Jersey. All of the the everything you find in Gotham, you find it

in New Jersey to a certain degree, the refineries and such. Yeah, and the abandoned amusement miles and like all the fuck up Atlantic City ship. That Atlantic City's a dump now, isn't it. It's not like what you saw on TV in the eighties. It's not like you know, so is the mythology. Then that there's Gotham, which is close to New York, which is close to Metropolis. Yeah, Metropolis is a mayor in the comic

oh is it? Yeah? Okay, see with learning here stuff, And Gotham was New Jersey because New York exists in the comet and in the DC Earth, new York is there. That's where the Titans were based out of when I was a little kid and stuff. But you know, geography is everything the DC comics. Earth is supposed to be a hair bigger than Ourners. It would have to be, just like it's something in the like in

the multiverse, it's bigger than our Earth, which I think is Earth prime or Earth zero or whatever the hell is. Comic book launchic is the best kind of logic if you like that kind of stuff, If you like to think that the multiverse and what you exist in, check out anything Grant Morrison has done in DC in like the last twenty years. He did a run

with something called the Multiversity, which is just insane. It's just this trip to the multiverse that makes the reader part of the multiverse, so like you're engaging in this. He's all into mysticism and stuff. But it's really interesting and I'm a big fan of his Batman run. Everybody likes to take from Frank Miller, but my favorite Batman run, aside from what I grew up on, my adult favor Grant Morrison stuff is just cool because it's Grant Morrison's

comics gets you everything. They give you funny, they give you drugged out, they give you weird, they give you hard boiled, they give you detective, they give you mystic they give you international, they give you site Like he governs everything to him. Batman's entire comic book run has been Batman's career, so he's had I may have said in the last episode he had

weird adventures in the sixties. He had a weird adventure, you know, like his adventures are condensed into however old he is in the comics net forty something now, that's pretty cool. But going back. Everyone nice to borrow with Frank Miller, because Frank Miller did The Dark Knight Returns. And everybody loves Dark Knight Returns, especially the creators of this episode clearly and how gay? How agog were you when I didn't know this was coming? Yeah,

how could any of us prey? Yeah? And we eventually and we eventually got a movie based on it. But this was the first time he ever saw The Dark Knight Returns in motion, I guess, yeah, animated and of the style they gets so perfect. Yeah, it translates really well and almost does it a little better than the comic tit's to a certain degree. Is it's just it's fluid, so you know, the comic is real sketchy. Klaus Jensen, you know, Frank Miller does a pencils, but Klaus

Jensen never gets the credit for the art on that and that. Have you've seen Klars Jensen pencil is owning. Think his own pencils looks like The Dark Knight Returns. His art looks more like The Dark Knight Returns than Frank Miller does, almost to it to a certain degree. But that's but nevertheless the impact of that book is huge. It's Yeah, it's monumental. Everybody borrows from that comic. I mean, clearly the biggest imitator was Zack Snyder,

who just lifted scenes whole sale. Yeah, and just showing once again that he had no actual understanding what any of those scenes meant and their importance, and he just got the mythic part of it and the badassory of it. And I'm just gonna before going off on another battangent. And I like a lot of the visual stuff that he does, and I like the longer version

of Batman v. Superman. Agreed, it's a better film, and I like seeing the characters, but I can't think gets some fucked up too, his angry Superman and murdery Batman. And had they just taken some time away from slow motion and spent a scene or two explaining why Batman is satur and he sees a Robin costume. Because he explained that a little bit, you'd

understand why Batman is not branding people in kind of murdery. Because the whole point of The Dark Knight Returns is Batman quits because Jason Todd get killed by the Joker, which ultimately ended up happening in the comics. Yeah, that was appreciant of the book, right, And that happened because well, the

Dark Night Reterns existed and they had written themselves into a corner. In that reboot of After the Crisis, Jason Todd is just a really obnoxious little character and he just kind of got to a point that he was gonna get himself killed regardless. And they made it a choice to the fans to call in a nine hundred number and the fans and I couldn't do it. I wasn't gonna ask my mom to let me call a nine hundred number to vote to see if Robin now would have got Robin Linder died and I was sad because

I wanted him to live, because was he a dead Robin? You could have counted No, it was not going to but it had That explained how broken up Bruce Wayne was after losing a Robin that he had to retire, and when he came back, it was so bad that he had evolved into a neater. Batman might have played a little better, but he wasn't adapted to the Dark Knight returns. He was doing whatever the fuck he was doing.

And this show does it a little better. This show condenses the Newtant fight down into a five minute sequence with Kerry Kelly, you know, and just hits the highlights and gets the artwork so good. But the best thing, it is the best, the coolest non Kevin Conroy Batman ever in Michael irons Yeah, that voice coming out of that Batman. I don't understand why they didn't cast him when they did the animated movie a few years ago.

Peter Weller was great in it, but they would Liar's side is still kicking and still sounds like that. He plays dark Side on Justice League and Superman and is the best. He is the best, but as his Batman. When I heard Peter Weller's version of this version of Batman, the Dark Knight Returns because there's a two part animated film of the Dark Knight, and I thought, oh man, he's so good. This is almost a perfect older Batman. Yeah, and then I heard Michael ironsides for five minutes and thought

this effortlessly doing what Weller was trying to get at. Yeah, and nothing against Peter Weller, I mean, he's just being Peter Weller being Batman. But Michael Ironstein's voice just for that version of Batman older meanher, but like he not only gets that sort of gravelly anger behind the bat but here's a line from the comic that I always liked but could never hear correctly in my head, which was rubber bullets. Honest. Now in the comic he's talking

to us. Yeah, it's part of the voiceover which the two part animated movie, which I think is wint but it's not a one hundred percent accent because it doesn't have the fucking voiceover in it, and the voiceover is what makes the Dark Knight returns almost. That's why I actually don't recommend the aimated film because the I mean, maybe you can enjoy it without that, but

to me, it was so integral to that book. Yeah, made us all look at Batman in a different light and they understand him much better. Because the best Batman movie, my favorite Batman movie is Batman. Your one is the animated one, because it's literally that comic book, and like he looks like the comic book, it sounds like that comic book. It has plucking a Walter White playing commercial Gordon and he's amazing in it, and it's

got even what's his name? The guy who played young Commissioner Gordon On Bryan Bryan Cranston was in it. Yeah, Brian Kanison place commision order. But the guy who plays young Jim Wardon on Gotham, Oh, Ben McKenzie, Ben McKenzie great, Oh he was really Yeah, that was a weird one. And it's got the voiceover in it. And the fact that it's got the voice over in it, oh cool. And I wish that animal Dark Knight, So the animated Dark Night, we don't get the rubber that's honest

line at all, So I'm still left hanging. And then Ironside just he's they very smartly have Robin in the batmobile with him. Yeah, that's a change and a worthy change the good Den's version of the story. And it's funny because it works because then we don't even need to hear the voice over. He can just be talking to Robin the entire time. It's a perfect

innovation. And like I said, Ironstein's delivery of the line made made me feel like, yeah, that's exactly how it should sad rubber bullets, honest, you can see that smile that Batman, the Batman, smart Batman. There's something that's evolved over the years. You know, old fifties Batman would smile and he was you know, and Adam West was friendly. But now

when Batman spiles, it means Batman's being really scary. And you can see and there's something called the Batman smirk, and it's a subtle smile when Batman's being naughty, like he's enjoying being Batman. This is it. You can see that. You can feel that in his delivery. You can feel Michael Irons like going rubber bullets, honest, like he's smirking when he says it. And it's a brilliant delivery. My other delivery is my favorite Life in

the Darklary Turn. You don't get it, son, This isn't a trash em it's an operating table. And he not being effective with his voice, was just talking matter of fact ly telling this man what he's about to do to him. It's so menacing and it's so great and that more of yeah, oh what a great thing. Kevin Conroy is brilliant and he's the best Batman out of all of them. Whenever is who's the best Batman? Conroy was the best Batman, but Michael Michael Iron Ziffer, you get man thatad

voice. I feel that Hollywood never understood the brilliance of Michael Ironside and we were denied a string of awesome revenge pictures and stuff starring him because you're right, he could have been the badass villain at the center of a film that we will totally purchased him as a hero. Yeah. All you get really is, well, Paul Verhoven is the only body who's like, oh, yeah, this guy's fucking great, you know, because I mean he steals

total Recall and he steals the Starship Troopers. Absolutely. Do you want to see him steal another movie? Oh well, certainly that certainly scatters. But there is a terrible sequel to Hylander called Highlander. Yeah, so that movie's terrible, but he's so cool with Yeah, one who understands what the actual

tone of that movie he was. He's a great in that. And I like what you're saying about that line, the operating table line, how casual it's delivered, because that's how it would be, and that really is terrifying. Yeah. The other line is when he gets out of the Batmobile and I show you who rules got them city? Okay, Son show me and you know, he's older and he's rotund, and he just looks like kind

of Santa. Can't clauss now without the beard. But then he starts talking, We're gonna have to start an iron Side cast because suddenly the thought of a world without on Michael Ironside is very terrifying. Okay, and what else

does he steal? The gee that? And you guys ever saw the v was his mini series that came out in nineteen eighty four, was horrifying, and it was about like aliens invading Earth and but they come as your friends and then there, you know, there's a twist and they're very very Nazi like and all that stuff. And it was the coolest TV show a ten year old or a nine year old or eight year old, We're seen. I was eleven. It was like the War of the World's nineteen thirty nine

broadcast from Man. Yeah, it was just the coolest. I had the toy that I found like Robert England is one of the visitors, Robert England, and then that they had that hot us is where I got my thing for evil hot women because that Diana or evil you know, head of the alienss or whatever the hell she was this sexy brunette cougar. Oh man, did you see when they've remade it? Who they recast Brenda Barker, who's in Gotham Man is the only good thing about that show because she was so

fine. That other repin was awful. I did the Gotham TV show. Oh, the Gotham TV show wasn't great either. I liked the Gotham do you really? Yeah, there are elements of that. Look, there's a lot of chaff in that weed, Yeah there is. But I like the performances of the Penguin and the Riddler a lot. That and their sort of homo erotic relationship. I liked that really well handled. And I like Alfred Alfred is great because John Pertwee, We've never had a shitty Alfred. All

the Alfred's have been great, that's true. Like even the guy in the Cereal in nineteen forty eight was British. He was a butler. The guy on the TV show Ellen Napier, the from zimboelas junior on the cartoon Great Michael Goff. I want Michael Goff to make the sandwiches for the rest of it. Yeah, that's the most paternal of the Yeah, we got Michael Kaye. The only thing I really like about those Nolan movies are Michael Caine and Gary Oldman and Lucia's Fox is pretty good too, but Lucius Fox.

Yeah, those movies have their charms. Yeah, but you know, Jeremy it was great as Alfred. And I gotta say Andy Sertin, It's my god, he's my new favorite. Yeah, it's one thing they always kind of consistently get right. But this Dark Knight Returns bit is so cool. I just I watched it again. You know, there's we stole from it in Space Detective a little bit, some of the design element, just of

the of the the red and black. We do a space my movie Space Detective if you can catch it at Space Detective Movie column and Swamp Media Group dot com where Why Company is located at. There's a remaster coming up soon, but we'll talk about it in a future episode. That kind of duo tone solid red and solid black. In the Batmobile, we kind of stole it a little bit Space stuff because it's so neat. Man, it's just to see just those two collars against each other and the dramatic and that batmobile.

That design, which really is a black frame with the instruments coming out of the black frame to create the cockpit. It's really cool. And the cockpit which is like on an accordion basically so it can stretch and bend in any direction. You don't really get the it's the common but no, I think the batmobile of Darknight Returns is just germane to that particular battlet. We had never seen anything like it, and I think they've been trying over and

over again to replicate it. That the Christopher No, and the thing is called well, okay, it's the batmobile. Any guy who's going to put a bat logo on his chest, he's gonna call his car the batmobile. I think there is a certain arrested development to it. You know, in the Dark Knight Returns comic, he blames it on Dick called it the batmobile. I don't think so. Anybody who puts a bat logo on his hubcaps,

it's been to comfortable calling calling it the batmobile. I think, you know, you lose your parents at that age, there's gonna be a certain arrested development there. I think there's gonna be a certain thing with your I know, for my own case, like, I still like a lot of this stuff. I like the little the age I lost the parent at seven or something. There's a certain emotional thing. And I think the eight nine, ten year old that Bruce Wayne was was a certain kid in there.

You know, he made that choice to be Batman at that age. He didn't come up with that when he was in college or who when he was a little kid. That's the decision of a little bit. I'm gonna grow up and make sure this never happens to anybody again. But there is a certain amount of wish fulfillment in there. As much as Batman has inspired us to want to be superheroes like that, he's actually doing it. So yeah,

naturally, this is my batmobile. Of course it is. And I can't see him going saying it kind of offhanded to Alfred and Alfred rolling his eyes out of him and go, okay, it's a batmobile. But like the relationship we have, how is the batmobile doings? Yeah, oh, bloody hell, I imagine that, Alfred says, oh, bloody hell a lot. Yeah. I think this is a standout of the episode, just because it really let this animation and design team really flex their muscles in a

way that they had it not to. And I think the third or four season, whatever this season is, is a little more limited in the budget. Like you don't get the black paper, right, you get photoshop painted, or you know, you get hair drawn, but it's all colored in photoshop where it's all very red sky. It's not a wash of black over red. It's okay, but it's definitely it definitely looks like Warner Brothers are giving him less money. Even the character designs a little bit more, have

less lines on them. Yeah, they're a little which is funny because Bruce Tim's style is so simple That's why they're so wonderful. But yeah, they're cutting costs everywhere. But in a way, they just refined the character a little bit. I prefer some of the designs on this one to the original one. I like the simpleness to it. I like a Joker with black eyes and green pupils. I like that part of it, But I don't

like him not having red lips that because Joker has no lips there. Yeah, the Joker is not and I know they were trying to go for a skeletal look, but the Joker is not wanting to go without his makeup, without his lipstick. What do you think Batman Beyond's version of the Cheker? It looks cool. I wasn't wild about it being Tim Drake, you know,

like that whole DNA swap thing was just yeah. See, That's why I could never really get into Batman Beyond, because I don't want to deal with after Dark Knight Returns basically and the great chronology yeah Man stories, let's say it all ends with Darkknight Returns. I don't want to hear afterwards. I don't like Batman that isn't Bruce Wayne. I just don't because I don't

like any superhero that's not the character that I grew up with. I don't like when they swapped the secret identity or anything like that in a film. I don't mind blind casting, so if as long as it like, it should make sense if it's the guy for the character, yeah woman for that part. For example, I'd rather have a black Peter Parker than Miles Morales, and not because of anything other than just I like that character. The costume is just the costume. But what I like is Bruce Wayne, this

little boy that lost his parents. A black guy playing Bruce Wayne, that's fine. I think it would work better if he was mixed race because the Wayne fortune is really old and the Wayne fortune I think Greg Morrison may have established this and established this in Gothic and a Legends of the Dark Knight Coming.

That's where they got the title for this episode from in there, when they explained that Bruce Wayne, the Wayne family money is real estate and they just own Main Street basically in Gotham, right, So like everything that's in on that street, Bruce Wayne owns the property for it, and that's just their old money they've been they founded the city and they've had that money there. They were from Scotland and they made their money in fur trapping first and

then there was real estate. And his great grandfather was Solomon Wayne, who was a Yeah all works into the court of owls and shit. Yeah that's pretty cool. Yeah goyas. Yeah gotam by gas. So his money's old. But a monk could be black and you know, you can do that kind of stuff. I just like it when the character is the character just traditionalist, do you want? Yeah, Superman has to be Joe Realm.

Yeah, I don't like another guy you know, being kal El. I don't like being you know, well, who's your favorite Flash to that? See it only works with the Flash, Oh okay, because you'll take Barry Allen and Wally West. I preferred Wally West because that's who I had growing up, right, But the Flash has been a multi character since. It's an exception really because it's like Jay Garrett. They due in nineteen forty, nineteen forty one. Barry Allen debuted in what nineteen fifty two to fifty three,

fifty four, so not a big difference. Wally West became the Flash in the eighties. There have been so many hell Jordans. Yeah, the

green Landards again. It started with Alan Scott, then it was Hal Jordan and they just kept adding green Land. But they've added Green lanyards since the sixties. They had a Guy Gardner first, they added then the John Stewart, who was the first major black superhero in DC. And all they keep giving us is Cyborg. Yeah, I know, they keep giving us a Cyborg. We haven't gotten John Stewart. I like him as they've always liked him as Green Lantern because I like the portrayal of him being like an ex

military guy. He's that guy. Yeah, and everybody needs that guy on the team. And hoost on Hal Jordan was an asshole. It would require somebody really charming to make How Jordan work. Hal Jordan and Tony Stark, it was like, I never like Tony Stark as a character in the comics. I don't like Tony Stark as a character until Robert Gonna played him right, because then it was you could feel there was that he was on your

side and joking with you. And yeah, posted just a drunk asshole, which was and Ryan Reynolds just as how Jordan just made that jock that picked on you in high school. That's true, and that didn't work. How Jordan should have been like Tom Cruiser, we were great, Hal Jordan. Yes, you know what we got was Hal Jordan the bro. Yeah, and it doesn't work. Hal Jordan is not a bro. Hopefully the new show that that's coming out they just announced this last weeks and they've got a

Damon Lindelof is the show runner up. Wow, that's gonna be me so yeah, positive things occurring over him these days. I mean, they could have excited for DC and it's Hal and John right, it's a cop show basically. You know, there's a core out there. Really neat man, I'm pretty excited about that. I like James Guns' stuff. I like the Guardians. He made me care about characters that I shouldn't have cared about. He made that fucking Raccoon work. I was just like, this is a

this is stupid, a fucking raccoon. I was on that page and I saw that movie. I'm like, shit, the raccoon is the most charming thing since the days, and now he's a major character in the Marvel universe. Whereas, yeah, when I was a kid, he was a there was a mini series Rocket Raccoon. It was a Forest Hu mini series, and it was that's all I knew about him. And the Guardians were like, the Guardians were the lame Legion of superheroes. It was literally the same

thing. They were thirtieth century superheroes. One guy had Captain America's Shield for some reason, and they were and YANDU was on the team, and it

was just terrible. Lego superheroes are awesome, teenage superheroes in the thirtieth entry, you can't go wrong with that. But the Guardians of the Galaxy were terrible. Man, James Gunn made him work. I know the lady who wrote the first draft too, the Coe Perlman. She wrote that in a writer's lab at Marvel. Yeah, I understand it. They said what do you want to do and she said Guardians of the Galaxy and they said that's

interesting. And then from the various iterations of the Guardians through the years, she picked who that team should be. And now in everyone's mind, that's the team. That's the team. But James Gunn is a solid movie director, and he is a solid joke writer. He's a solid joke writer, and he knows how to write jokes into heart. And that's what really sold that picture, the heart of it. Yeah, he put that heart in there with those jokes, and man, start Wars works. Man, it's

because those characters are bigger in the entire time. But you know, they all really like each other. They like even in the first one when they all hate each other, they clearly enjoy each other's company. Right, But they're escaping the desk star. The chemistry is wonderful and James Gunn really latched onto that. I have high hopes for Superman. I don't like that costume. No, I don't like the collar. I'm fine with the costume, but I don't like, Well, I imagine our Superman. I imagine what

we've seen so far is not what we're actually getting. That that's good.

I like the wide open where you can see his neck. I think a high collar makes him look fascist. Here's my prediction. He Martha makes him an outfit. He gets a Kryptonian outfit, the Cartoonia epic gets fucked up. He puts on Mom's outfit for the finale. I hope that's the case. What I do like, though, is it's got the shorts. Thank god, those shorts. It looks a weird unitard thing going weird seek or something. Yeah. I don't like it. And it's just it's just,

oh look, it's super junk. At least as short covers the junks a little bit. Yeah, it feels more like a costume rather than a skin. And like, can't just the Kryptonians be tacky dressers? Yeah, I like, we'll go back to the Donner movie, Like, I'll take him in those robes. There was I was actually everything. I responded on a

thread and James Gunn liked it. Made my day. But like he was talking, it was the debate on the shorts, and I go, can't the Kryptonians just to be a taped wearing shorts on the outside type of society. That's just what the way they dress, that's just they're flying fans. Now, okay, let's bring it back to the fucking episode, because the third it's magnificent. The Dark Knight return stuff is all Magnificen we get to our third story here, which is just the story of these kids happening upon

a crime and then the actual Batman saving them. So there are now the protagonists of their own story. Now the villain of this who's design? I fucking love doing this? Start so basic, it's perfect man, just random shapes. And here's Firefly. Firefly never gets enough airtime or airplane. They did a pretty good good one on Gotham actually, but there's a really they do a really good episode with him on this series though. Oh yeah here

in the anima. Yeah, he's a special effects guy and his girlfriend breaks as a pop star and he's doing all the special effects for her and she dumps them or something. Eagles age shit, right, I just meant live action wise, because the recent shelving of Backgirl because Brendan Fraser was playing Firefox in that one, so now we don't even get to see that. I think that movie probably had really good performances in it and wasn't very good.

I bet it was garbage, but I still want to see it. Yeah, I heard it look like it. I heard from people who are around you know that they have seen a cut or something like that. They look like a CW show. It's about time that I think studios figure out that

we'll give anything a chance comic book fans basically. Yeah, But the problem is that's also a problem because if they just give you anything and they don't put a lot of effort into it, right, But then we're voting with you know, our views and dollars, So the ones that are not quality, you're going to fall away. As comic book fans. Maybe they'll give anything a chance, but unless it comes out of Sony because none of those, like, every one of those movies tanks. I don't know why they

keep making I guess the Venom movies are making money. Hold on to that, Yeah, grant, they got to keep making the movie so they can keep their copy rank going. So they can keep printing money. You know, I fracture might not do background work every now and then. Fun, I'm always busy, like editing and shit Like, I don't get a lot of time to socialize. It's like background gig out to spend the day, make two hundred bucks. Maybe I'll meet somebody's girls. I did background a

day on Venom. I can't say anything because I signed an ending. And it's just you know, just a he's an arsonist, but a godom city

arthanists have jetpacks and this one firefly. They get him so right on the cartoon when he sees the kids in the audience and he says, oops, tough luck. They're not going to come and help you. Yeah, the chargers have said, kids, you just shouldn't be here. Ye. Yeah. It's just like apathetic and not too bright. And he's a cool sea batman rolling like good eat pinch good for a connecting scene. Yeah, Like in the last episode, I said he's not getting invited to the Joker and

Penguin's card game. The Penguin would hire him though, right of course, you know, and I the comics tend to do this really well. Now we're like the villains just don't all end up in Gotham at the end of the issue. They have lives, right, you know, they're just not caught. You've got to get charges the stick. You know, Seedlister's going

to be guns for hire, basically bring him on in. But when you do that, you get something like Kite then, who ended up being a breakout on the cartoon show with Harley, but only because he was a breakout in the comics because Tom Kit used him as it was a Seedlister. I'm just gonna work them into the story and so does work too. It certainly worked in that cartoon. And we hadn't really mentioned the Harley Quinn cartoon, which is probably the from these Snyder era of the DCU, to me,

the best thing that came out. Yeah, it's silly and it does its own thing with the mythology and it, but it's from her perspective, you know, almost got to it's from Harley's perspective, who is a lunatic, but it was a crazy lunatic. But they get the personalities since they're funny. They get everybody's personality really well, almost perfectly in some cases, so

everybody's comedically the you know, like when the Lex Luthor shows up. Lex Luther's a narcissist, he's a comedically so on this so you can see really the core and the personality come out. And the joke Carella at his heart is an asshole who thinks he's funny, the worst kind of human. Yeah, he's just and Alan Tudick as great as the joker. He's funny and seeing the joker call somebody an asshole is great. Yeah, that's the they

think. Yeah, finally got like cursing in the Batman universe, but because it's a joke, they can get away with it. Yeah. And the Penguin is it was the peg is played by Nuban from from Seinfeld. That's right, there's a bar mitzvah. So like the penguin having to go to his kids or his nephew's bar mitzvah is something that you know is real,

right, you just absolutely know what happened and in real life. Yeah, Or the fact that the Riddlers is a total queen but is really sweet because he gets in a in a relationship with the clock King and they get married. Sense. Man, it was fucking great. Man. So if you like Batman animated shows like we've been discussing, do you old favorite check out Harley Quinn know that it's a sitcom and it's and now Diadrich batter is as Batman as bot Yeah, yeah, exactly, just thank god, my favorite.

There's the one they've introduced Robin and it's Damian but he's the new Robin and he's nine, and it's a little boy doing the voice. Yes, and everybody's whenever Robin shows up, they can't fight him because he's so adorable. It's the perfect trail of Dami. It's really well done. I like how it ends with the Firefly in the comic Bruce Wayne and I said, just jumps out of the shadows dressed up as Batman's I think Batman looks like

this. It's lame. This the kids seeing Batman and they get to see Batman doing his thing, and then his interaction with them is just yes, it's I'm not cuddly, kids. You need to get the fuck out of here because shit's on fight. Yeah, but the kids still walk off all super because what could be better? Yeah? You know, I one time, when I first moved to Los Angeles, I've mentioned Harlan Ellison. He's my favorite author of all time. Harlan had his phone number in the phone

book. He was not shy about people contacting him. So I called on my the first phone I had got my first phone line in Los Angeles, and my first phone call, I'm going to call harle and Allison. And it rang and rang, and then finally the receiver was snatched up and he just yelled and I hung up, very scared, but was so elated because to me, it was almost the perfect interaction with the man. Yeah, you know, like I couldn't ask for bet. I was like meeting Batman.

Yeah, okay, this Batman. Yeah, but can you imagine being a little, you know, twelve year old kid and talking about only hearing about the urban legend in the town you limit and then seeing them, but

acting as he should, like whatever your preconceived notion of him. In my case, I knew Harlan Ellison was going to yell at me for calling him at home, because I had no reason to do so other than to say I love you so But you know, if my version of Batman is the jokey one or the super ultra you know, who's still nice to Robin every version of this Batman were getting, like he's the friendly Batman. To get the Batman's not fucking about would be elating to me because that was a version

I wasn't even thinking of. Clearly, there is a thing about Batman that people, again the movie makers don't quite get. They almost get. There's always little flashes of it, but for the most part, like bet only trusts two kinds of people, older men with mustaches, Commissioner Gordon Lucius Fox,

Alfred Pennyworth, and little kids. He trusts little kids because little kids are not corrupted, they're innocent, and he stopped aging at to a certain degree. He is the best dad that you could probably hope for, even though he's gonna put you in danger and probably get you killed, but he will get you resurrected at the very least, the very least one of his villains will get you back to life. But he's you know, there's a

certain dad element to him, and he's been with the kids sidekick. You can't separate that and I the one thing again I like and Batman begins when there's a little kid there, he gives them one of his gadgets. It's a small interaction and it's nice. I don't like Christian Bale as Batman because he's yelling the whole time, but yeah, Batman talks like Clint Eastward.

God read a comic book. Anyways. I like him with the little kids, and it worked, you know, And it's like Batman's a character that you can trust around kids, you know, like an adult that like, you know, Batman's not going to be a bad influence on him other than you know, taking him to fight crime. Superman's another character, like Superman interacting with children, Wonder Woman interacting with children. That's you need that.

These characters need that, you know. And I don't think the movies ever really truly get that, right. We haven't had a good Batman and Robin other than atat West. It's an excellent point because the thing about d C and DC fans are they tend to be sort of in the basic overview, the dark versus Marvel's Light. Yeah, the characters of DC are always a little more tortured. Where they're coming from. Is a little more human in a way, or not more human, because the Marvel is sort of everyday

sort of man and woman. But certainly our origin stories tend to be a little dark in DC well, and in the origin stories are all very and again, I don't know if this was intentional. I don't think it was intentional. I think that's just what they tapped into. Maybe it's the time period because a lot of these characters are coming from the forties, you know, a world where there are super villain right, certainly, and they're doing awful things. But yeah, they you know, they kind of start with

a little bit. Batman and Superman start with tragedy. Wonder Woman's reten ret conn to have a little bit of tragedy into it, you know, or being you know, being Zeus's daughter automatically makes things complicated. Yeah, you're gonna have some problems going out. But I the DC characters are always larger than life. They're big gods and stuff. My point is that they actually what you're saying about their interactions with children are actually necessary. Yeah is in

otherwise you get I don't want to toop on Zack SNYDERX again. I love his stuff, but I don't his movies are too dark. There's no these are children's characters. At the end of the day, you were met these characters when you were a little kid, and you should be able to make sure you know that a kid should be able to I don't know. Marvel. I always saw as a soap opera, everybody was very human, very flawed, Whereas that's what and they don't have kids sidekicks. See, on

the other hand, they're like these godlike characters, very parental. They all have kids sidekicks, and they all come from dark places, very fairy tale, and a lot of their origins fairy tales always start terrible, you know, the every kid, everybody lost in the woods. You know, it's like Disney movies. You know, it always starts with there's a dead mother, right or something like that. And I think you get that in those

class at least in the Big Three. You know, Wonder Woman has on an island with no men or whatever, and she's a child of a god and stuff. But there's the Amazons are there because they're all like the souls of abused women. That's what the Amazons and the easy comics are at the very least. That approach is when they all the Amazons are descended or they are the spirits of or whatever women that were raped and murdered and all this stuff. The Palta was raped Hercules Heracles, right, you know, like

the physical amazon Us. These are the mystical Amazons that have been resurrected as from the spirits Yata. So Paradise Island has this mystical background that's rooted in tragedy. So the thing is so it's easy to lean into. All. Yeah, it's very easy. It's not in any way innovative that you come along and go, let's take this darkness and turn the lights down. Congratulation

you make it. I've made it more realistic and more down. Ears that support we all live and that's what we get from a Gotham, Like we're all living in Gotham. Yeah, I need to see that. I need to see Superman fly by every once in a while and inspire me, you know, yeah, and me and like making me. There's I saw a clip from Superman four online, the other terrible film, except this guy seems

Superman in the classroom with a bunch of kids. You know. It's got Superman taking that kid, and he's got a bunch of kids running behind him, and he got his arms around one is I'm gonna you asked me to get rid of nuclear weapons to me, I'm gonna go do that. Well, yeah, you're you're supposed to do that, the little kid like, that's the whole point. I think there's a great description about DC versus Marvel that I always thought was really interesting is that Marvel is the heroes in our

world, but in DC, we're going to their world. I think that's very fair. Yeah. Yeah, as much as as fantastical as Marvel can get, it takes place here in that Yeah, they're not necessarily going to the world outside your window. Yeah. I mean, Captain America fought in the World War Two everybody, and much to the the movies attempt to blur that he did kill a lot of Nazis. I don't know why that movie

erases the Nazis, but yeah, they went straight to Hydra. I think the rise of neo fascism in the United States has a lot to do with the fact that there was an edict of no more cartoon Nazis after Chindler's List and saving Private Ryan and brilliant historical things, but there was no more carto villain Nazis, and I think that extended into Captain America, and I think had the Red skull, but running around the wick swasting go on his arm.

You want Hitler in it. We probably wouldn't have had We will not, They will not replace us. We might not have had that because I grew up in an era Nanzi was a go to bad guy and they reminded you every couple of years, some superhero or some action guy was beating the shit out of one of these scumbags, or no Brooks was making fun of them. And I think where you take a point where you have to they're very serious, you gotta lampoon them. You gotta make them cartoon villains because

people got to understand how awful these folks are. Anyways, that's just me being mad that Chris Evans didn't punch the actual Hitler. Yeah, I mean yeah, we got the cartoon version of Yeah. So like the memgie is great, but I think they fucked that up. And that's too bad because if somebody would have had a good cartoon Nazi villains, it would have been Joe Johnston, and I'm sure he argued for it. His The Rocketeer has got some great Nazi villains of it. Timothy Dalton, Yes, my god,

that's great. Yes, oh yeah, hey. And and as you know, going back to Batman, there's a great Batman Captain America crossover from maybe it's twenty five thirty years ago. John byrned in it, and it's set in the forties and Hitler, I mean, the Joker teams up with the Red Skull and the Joker finds out that the Red skulls a Nazis, like you're Nazi. Hey, I may be a psychopathic criminal, but I'm

an American psychopathic criminal. Then he punches them. I remember that issue very well, even the Joker all is the line of fucking Nazis. But this episode is cool. Man. I think this was an episode that when I watched it, I wanted to immediately rewatch it. I wanted to ingest it and really enjoy it, because getting to see Batman is just not that. When seeing Batman adapted, you rarely get to see on screen what makes him so great. And I'm not talking even story wise, and nobody gets it,

writes one story wise other than this cartoon. But to see the visual influence come to life, the important visual stuff that in the comic book what got the kids in nineteen fifty to still think Batman was somewhat relevant, even though you know he had lost his relevancy a little bit in that decade.

To make the producers of the TV show, William Noser and his team, what they looked at was those big sprank comic books, that art style, that very exaggerated Bill Finger and his giant typewriters, as I like to say, a lot big piano machines and giant props to work Batman death traps and stuff. That's direct influence. That's important. The Darknight Returns he has that snyer bit a lot off of it. But the Burt movie wouldn't exist without

it. That Burton movie. The Dark Knight Returns showed Warner Brothers, Hey, this Batman could be for anybody. We could probably make a bunch of money with this guy. I said it earlier, I'll say it again. The influence of Dark Knight Returns cannot be estimated in the Batman that we have today, in the varied forms of Batman. The fact that Batman's got machine guns on the Batmobile in every movie is because of The Darknight Returns. So

it doesn't have a positive influence. Just the darker suit, yeah, just the darker tone, just that. I don't think there's an analog. It's not one. For one, the Burton film it visually owes nothing to the comic book. What it does, oh, is the freeing up to make

it as dark as they made. Yeah, even visually. The comics were influenced by The Dark Knight Returns. You know, to the point that Batman had the yellow oval on his suit, and the reason why he has a yellow thing in his middle of his chest was been the in the sixties. They wanted a trademark the Batman logo, and they couldn't just trademarked the bat that's on his chest because there was a million other things like Bacardi rum looks like Batman, but if you put it in a yellow circle, you could

trademark it. So it was there, and in the Dark Nary turns frankments, Oh, it's a target that Batman puts on his chest. Can't armor my head, can't armor his head which parted his X later you can. And then once that suit gets messed up, he goes back to his original costume with a big old Bat on it. But the comics eventually went to the big Old Bat within a few years. The big is true. That's you know this one right down on This is from the thirty nine one.

You know literally what I have on my arm. Co host just discovered that they both have a bat ten. Yeah, from the same fucking era. Yeah. So the Dark Nary Turns influence is huge, and it just did an influence Batman. It influenced the entire industry because it was the book that that that broke the industry into the main It was the book that people go, all comics are for kids, are for growing up, you know, are for just forgetting. It's the book that made it, don't people go,

Comics aren't just for kids anymore. They're for grown ups. Everybody could enjoy them, more so than Watchmen. I know. Watchmen was more literary, and I think that turned on a whole other segment of the populae.

Sure, but the comic book that made it real is the fact that Batman was now in his fifties and had a deeper complexity than we had ever really considered and made us examine the character in ways that like, look, the comics had given us all these different versions of them over the years, but this one really opened it up for people to go, oh, this is for me too. This book, The Dark Knight Returns Watchmen wasn't getting written

up in Rolling Stone in nineteen eighty six. Dark Knight Returns is a fucking Rolling Stone, meaning The Dark Knight Returns was okay for college people and twenty somethings. The Dark Knight Returns. Oh, this comic book is cool. And you know how cool this was. This is the only comic book Zack Snyder's ever read. Okay, he read three hundred and he looked at the the Dave Gibbons sheets for Watchmen. I don't think you read the story.

Well, no, I don't think he looked at the art. That's one thing about Watchman when I was just kind of weird, is I like the fact that he did the movie universe version of Watchmen, so like it exists in the same kind of movie universe of every superhero movie that came out after the Burton Batman, where we had rubber costumes and mascara on their faces and stuff, and then you and then the comic. The Watchmen costumes are very

kind of home made, look good almost. Yeah. The TV show did a nice job interpreting those costumes, and you know, I give we talked about Zack Snyder. But I love Zack Snyder, and I wish he would make more stuff like three hundred again because I think that's his best. That movie. It is easy and you watch three hundred over and over again, it's and you gotta understand it. It's this and that or whatever. But it's told from the perspective of the greed from the Greeks. It's propaganda piece,

like you're supposed to be ridiculous. Yeah, and yeah it's racist, but it's supposed to be like that everything that was in Greece was foreign and monstrous. Yeah, that was the whole point. But it's a beautiful film. Absolutely, This is there developing a TV show. Don't do that. Don't do that. It should be just a little piece of art that Yeah, yeah, that sequel didn't exist. And don't take it as history. Oh, read a book for history. These are fiction, everybody. Yeah,

these are fiction. So I don't want to all them ex Nider Stuck. No, I like him as a filmmaker. I wish he would do more stuff like that. I love three hundred, and I'm one of the fans of Watchmen. No, me too. I love that Watchman, but I've seen a bunch of times. I think he should have hired older actors to play the older characters instead of putting them in the fucking terrible makeup, Like, yeah, it was, it's unacceptable. Yeah, I would have

done the two actor thing too. There's no shame in casting a sixteen because a sixteen year old the median is super is what the sixteen year old comedian does unexpected because he's a right and this is Jefferdine Morgon doing it, Okay, I expect him to be raby. Even his makeup at the beginning is if he as fuck is if he Yeah, he's great though, Oh my god, he's the perfect guy for this. He's great. Yeah, yeah, But couldn't you imagine, you know, like they actually had some sixty

five year old guy blaming him though? It would be great, Yeah, because you know, think like Bruce Willis or something at that you know night in two thousand and nine playing that part like an old man, you know, older guy. Oh well yeah, that kind of would have been perfect. Yeah shit, but it was you've cast us in your head. I read Tom Cruise, that was who we wanted for Ozzie Mandias. That would have been the perfect guy. Yeah, Tom Cruise, and I love Matthew

Good. I am the president of the Matthew Good Film Fan Club. Man. I want to cast that dude as a villain in something because he is spectacular as Ozzie Mandias and he's even better as Bob Evan's on that Godfather the Offer show on on Paramount. It doesn't I'm not wild about the casting on on on Coppola. Oh yeah, yeah, that's what's his name? Is it, Josh Gatt. It's the other one, the other guy guy, the Fury guy. Because the Balls of Fury guy is like short, like

the penguin. I shouldn't have been playing Copla. Copla is like six feet tall and is a bear of a man. And you know what I mean, Yes, the intimidation is not there with this. He's just another puzzo. There's yeah, exactly. And there's no way that Miles Teller would have intimidated me. There's no way that Al Roady could have intimidated the real Coppola. Copeland would have just been like, fuck you, I'm gonna have a glass of wine, smoke a joint, ups with spaghetti and you can kiss

my ass. Yeah, I'm back to San Francisco with me, San Francisco with me. Fuck you No, he's not. Copland still got it Man. Yes, I would have remind seeing Copla do a Batman movie, though that could be something else. I like cop Yes, his version, Yes, whatever you want, no studio notes Yes, well then you know he made Dracula. That Dracula, despite some of the weird casting in it,

that movie is cool. One of the studios wants to be really fucking pushed because we I think we've reached the point where we've gotten the traditional superhero storytelling cinematically these days. If someone wants to have a fucking fun time, I would do exactly that. I would call Germa del Tour and go, what character do you want? Go ahead. We're not trying to make a joint universe right now. Yeah, we'll get to that, you know, if we get there at all. I just want to see swamp Thing be swamp

things. Yeah, if Batman exists, if Gotham is there, sure, and I know you know Constantine exists there too, in the swamp Thing University's from the swamp Thing universe. But for fox sake, can I just spend some time in the swamp and not worry about what's going on in the rest of the world. Yeah, did do these one off kind of tales like James Mangold. They had a lot of success with Logan doing that. I don't think Logan is as great Asy already made it out to me, but

it's pretty good. It's at least taking the taking brave something new. Yeah, you know the Joker and that Joker movie too, I was trying to do doing his own. What do you think it's successial or not. It's either here or there. But you know, he plays pretty well. I do not. I hate that movie, but exactly what I'm saying, I like that it's out there. I like that they said, yeah, you go ahead. It's not going to fuck up the timeline in people's minds.

It's always been the fucking problem with the studios is, well, everyone's going to be so confused if we have two different Batman properties out there. You know, the Arrow Verse had a version of the Suicide Squad that they had built over seasons that they had to stop doing this movie because there's a movie coming out. We don't want anybody to go getting the wrong idea. I mean, you can tell it's two different This whole shared universe thing has gotten

in their hand. Marvel did it great, and then everybody tried to do it again. And just if you don't have a plan from the beginning where it's all going right now, don't just tell the story of that character. That's all we really need. I actually think planning the universes ahead of time hurt everybody because they're like, Okay, we're gonna build this movie and then we'll get to the real popular villain in the sequel. Just like expected a

popular villain. Make the movie and if it works, have that in your back pocket, but make your contained story. The Iron Man was able, I think pulled that awfully. Well. Yeah, well they came up with a villain, a hero most people barely knew, and a villain people both. Yeah both. But here's the thing I agree with you. Yeah, Iron Man also had no interesting villains. Right, if it's your first Batman movie, might as well go up against the Joker. Yeah, it's gonna

come up, and it doesn't. We don't need to build to it. It's not necessary as fans. But at the same time, just don't kill them at the end. Yeah. I never understood that and that they did that, and that's all from the Burton movie. They that's because they just knew they could never afford Nicholson. Again, I'm assuming, but it makes no sense that they would kill the Catwoman, although they at the last second through her back and yeah, but yeah, I mean, Harvey Dent dies

and the Joel Schumacher one a end and Wiggler gets it. He's insane, so he can't reveal who Batman is. Yeah, it's just I think that's eighties Hollywood movie writing. The villain dies. The villain dies at the end. That's the only way we can have some sort of satisfying climb ances to is for our villain to remain slane, you know, because how many times Bond movies they just kept recasting blofeld Oh, yeah, who do we need? Who do we like? Yeah? Who isn't pissing us off? Yeah,

that's funny. But if he just didn't fucking care. But that was also before you know, home the home video market or anything like that, where people, if they saw the movie again, they had to go to the movie theater or go back to watch it on a re release. So maybe there wasn't that louch. Yeah, so they're not going to really notice that mob Adams had previously been a bond girl when she shows up in Octopus. But nobody gives a shit that. You know, Don Cheetles became roady,

not at all. No, and mony thing is the other guy gave a better performance Terrence Hower. Yeah, oh yeah, Terrence Howard tried because we all know what a spectacular actor Don Cheetle is. Oh yeah, and Don Gino's just like my paychake, I got my money. Fuck it up, he's phoning it in. He's a marble movie. I don't give a shit. Does seem that way, Terrence Howard, It's a marrble movie. I give a shit. I feel bad for Terrence Howard. I don't understand

that gossip. I don't know who, I don't care. It's all very sketchy. It's all sketchy. I'm sorry you didn't get cast in the second one. You know, take the pay cut. I guess I don't know. I would. He shouldn't get a pay cut. He shouldn't get a pay cut. I don't believe that he got paid more money though in the first movie than that. Basically he was on par with Robert Downey. He

said, well, I was saying that he was getting paid more. Well, that might have been the case, just because there was, you know, no guarantee about Downy Junior at that point. Yeah, people were still nervous about him, even though he'd been doing good work for the previous decade. Kiss Bang like chiss Bang is still his best movie. Fucking great movie.

Isn't that a great movie? Everything about that picture is just original and rash and real even and kind of hilarious because they keep calling Robert Downey Junior kid in it. I'm like, well, cock on day Berry. Oh, it's fantastic movie beginning to end. I know you would find the word stupid, which is what you are. Just Val Camrose, I guess his last hurrah, Yeah, pretty much, but one does it go out on? Yeah, such a great picture. Shane Black's doing Doc Savage. He's

been no collamoring. No, he's doing it with The Rock and they just did a press conference like two days ago. Well the Rock, huh,

he is bronze. He is bronze. Are they gonna put him in a bad a blonde wig? I hope so better with that that widow. I can't imagine Shane Black will do anything but sixties. He's a big he's a big Doc Savage guy. Eh oh, yeah, I know he's a fan of the books. And what has been trying to get that movie made since the eighties was Swarzen here long time was attached to it. Even Dolf Londern kind of it is Doc Savage in real life A little bit he is in

real life, but he wouldn't. He can't act. He can't act. But I mean he's beautiful. Well, I mean he's like a perfect human specimen, and he's like a super fucking genius, and so maybe the acting doesn't need to be at the height. But yeah, I guess the Rock I don't know, get the Rock place more deve batistas. I mean Smart will believe. Smart will believe it. If the writing is he can he can read. It's fucking Shane Black. I'm not gonna not see it.

The Rock can act. I mean, his whole personality is an act. That's true. But let's let's wrap up out here on the back and shape any final thoughts on Legends of the Dark Knight. It's got the best episode title out of the entire series, only because Legends of the Dark Knight was low key my favorite comic run when I was in high school. It was an anthology comic five issue arcs, generally out of continuity. Originally it was

meant to be in Batman's early days. They were meant to be young Batman stories, but they really just ended up being out of continuity, just Batman's. Anyone shows up with a great Batman idea, go do it. And in Legend of the Dark Knight, You Got you Got Faces I think a two face story from bet Matt Wagner You Got Prey, which was an update of the Hugo Strange interaction with Batman. He was Strange, resses up like Batman. Paul Glacy arc gorgeously at Greg Morrison's Gothic, which is really good.

It revealed that Bruce Wayne man have gotten diddled by a priest when he was a kid, or went to a school that had you know some hansy yikes. Yeah, and where Venom was introduced is a story where Bruce Wayne gets addicted to the super steroid venom oh and has to go into basically rehab, but rehab for Bruce Wayne was take the Batman mask off and the cap off and then go lock yourself in the cave for three months to detox, and he can out to be a little beard and skinny, and he's like,

all right, I'm ready to fight crime again. But the venom eventually evolved into especially that earlier on Legend of the Dark Knight. If you're a fan of comics of Batman, seek it out. It's really cool. I'm sure you can get them on the DCF. So I love the title. I love the art styles and the respect to the history of Batman a lot. I love the fact that it's a reminder that little kids love this character and dark movies that kids can't go watch. Maybe you should make him a

Batman movie that they can go watch. I'm okay for a dark r Rader Batman movie. I want that, But I want to make sure my nephew gave as a Batman movie with Robin and the Batmobile and Ace to Bathhound and mister Freeze and you know what I mean, something for him to enjoy as well. You're absolutely right. I think we're gonna have two Batman movies because why people love that shit one every other year? Who cares? Yeah,

fuck the timelines that that cares. I don't. I want to see every Batman, although I'm surprised that they're not making the the Robert Pattinson is the young version of whatever, the next whatever, the James Nunber is Okay, Well they're doing they're going brave and bold. Yeah, with Damian Wayne, Yes, I wonder you know what you should cast on that. John Hamm too old now, but he's a kid now, Yeah, that's true. I mean John Ams is fifty, so I mean Kessydrick Bonner, right,

you're gonna you're looking at it with a raised eyebrow. Chris Emsworth, Oh no, I could totally see him. Have you seen that last movie of his that Netflix The Extractor too? And not they're not they're out of control action movies, right, but these teams with a little kid in it in the second one, and the chemistry is great. I'm sure he one of them. You know, he's a young dad with like kids and shit like and that four movie isn't very good, no, that last one, but

he's good with the kid. That's his kid. Yeah. So I think Chris Emsworth is physically obviously you know, yeah, dye his hair and costume work there. Yeah, now you know, know pat and muscles needed. Yeah, but the fact that I know he can play serious because he's those

action movies is fine. But he's good with kids, yeah yeah, and he looks the part and he's a got the right level of name. And plus what great press we stole for I mean goodbye. Yeah, right now, let me bring it back again, because here's an idea. Let's get a Batman movie that's a fucking anthology that it would be nice where you could have any actors you want in any style you want, for any story you

want. But throw that out there. I mean that we get those as animated things from time to time, and we've gotten them here and those are wonderful. Let's see something. There's an animated anthology movie from around the Christen Woland time, a Shadow of the bat Yes, which is an idology of the anime, which is okay, some of them are better than others. I don't know how well Batman translates to anime. It's kind of a weird. It's yeah, it's very off putting, like Batman. Ninja is cracked

the fuck out. Yeah it was fun, right, I like the Batman and Ninja turtles more though, Yeah, certainly that was a great It was a lot of fun. There's so many good Batman's. Give us an anthology, it'd be fun. And you've been listening now to midnight viewing anthologies. Attack. This is gonna be the end of this episode. I don't know what our next topic is, but in two weeks you're gonna you'll all know.

Our Patreon subscribers are gonna know a week early. Until then, where can people find you, Antonio if they're looking for you, well, we'll be back here saying back time, same back shadow. No, you can find my work over at swamp me dot com, and you can watch my movie at Space Detectivemovie dot com, the only place you can watch it right now there, and please enjoy. It's kind of weird. Have a cocktail or something. Do you have legal cannabis in your state? Enjoy some of

that. It's a weird kind of animated thing. It's fucking great, is what it is. Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, of course. And as for me, check out all of our stuff at Weirdingwaymedia dot com, including my radio drama Dark Destinations, and oh check out Night mister Walters. That's the HP's podcast. About the TV series Taxi that I co host Until next time. See. He was just like, I said, what are you talking about? Did you see the way? He thought?

Yeah? But he also had that phone thing and when he flew away the end, I'm telling you he's not human. Get off it. He's human. I don't know. I thought I saw phage midnight viewing. Anthology's Attack is a proud member of Weirdingway Media. Our theme song was composed by HP. If you want to hear these episodes early and commercial free, go to patreon dot com slash Fathom alone. Membership will also get you exclusive bonus content

not available in the regular stream. But if you just like the show I want to help, please share with your friends and give us a five star rating on your pondcatcher of choice Until next Time.