When I saw the scene with the track, I was like, yeah, because Pollie is my favorite character in it, and she's a badass and she just walks out of that car with a cigarette and their mouth and she steps on shit.
Yeah, we're talking peaky Blinders with this evening's guest on the podcast, Jenny Beth from Savages the Eagle eared. Amongst you will have noticed a snippet of brand new solo music from Jenny was debuted in the most recent series of the show. That track, I'm the Man, gets an official release as part of the soundtrack in mid November. But don't worry if Picky Blinders isn't your thing, though, we talk about plenty of other stuff. That's just one
of the projects that Jenny has been busy with. Recently, she made the first episode of an all new music TV show called Echoes. It was interesting to hear about her reasons for doing that. She and her long term collaborator Johnny Hostile also work together on the soundtrack for the film X Why Chelsea, the documentary movie about transgender activist Chelsea Manning released back at the start of the summer. Other places, the chat goes the success of her friend's
idols over the past couple of years. We get Jenny's thoughts on the latest Nick Cave and the Bad Seas album and the WAKEM Phoenix Joker movie that came out not that long ago. We have a chat about that, and I ask about where Savages are at right now too. I should probably mention Tonight's episode is the final one of the series. Stuart and I have been here every Thursday night at midnight for the past ten weeks. I wanted to say thank you again to all of our
guests on this run. That was Karen O, Kate Temper, Serge Pizono, Julia, Jaqueline him, Stephen Mountmus, Holly Herndon, Adam Green, George the Poet, and of course Jenny Tonight. Thanks for all those people who helped us get those guests as well, and thanks to all the people who have said complimentary things about our podcast or recommended it to your friends
and your tweets and things like that. We appreciate the support and I know this gets boring to say it every time, so we don't and we haven't recently, but if you do enjoy the podcast, please do leave a review or a rating wherever you're listening to this right now. We will be back at some point, hopefully in early twenty twenty. But enough of all that, I leave you on this high note, Jenny Beth on Midnight Chats. One
final thing. If you do like what we do, please consider supporting this podcast by subscribing to Loud and Quiet magazine. We ship all over the world. The information is at Loud and Quiet dot com slash subscribe, where we will post you our next nine issues for as little as three pounds per month. It keeps our monthly independent magazine in print and it helps us make this podcast. How are you doing? First of all, how are things?
Yeah, I'm good, Thank you very much, thanks for having me good.
I want to talk about, or I want to start by as about some of the projects you've been recently involved with. Sure, you've been busy. First off, just a few weeks ago you made a TV show. Yeah, tell me about it called Echoes, Right.
Yeah, Echoes.
Tell me a little bit about how that came about. Has that been something you wanted to do for a while?
Yeah, we really something I wanted to do at the back of my head, but it's not It was not something that I expected to do so soon. So I've been doing the radio show on Beats one for two years and talking to different artists, and my attraction to that was that I love to probably just as much as you to talk to artists and try to understand how they came how their passion for music came about, and how they you know, it turned out that dedicated
all their life to music. And also, you know, I love to hear musicians and have them talk and have them express, you know, things about not just music, but about the world and about the yeah they're visions and the way they see things as they are, and culture in general. So I guess that the TV show is
an extension to that. So I was asked to if I was would be interested to try do a first episode of a TV show and if I could come up with a concept, and so me and Johnny host I worked on that together and Johnny actually actually came up with the name Echoes with Jenny Bef. He came up with my radio show name as well. It's really
good with names. I'm not very good with names. But so any idea is I mean, echoes is you know, it's a sound word, but it's also the idea of having different musicians respond to each other and have you know, their experiences echo with another musician's experience and try to have that group talk. So the TV show is a live performance in front of an audience, So it's a gig. It's like free bands coming in or free artists coming
in and performing in front of an audience. And at the end, part of the audience and all the musicians we group together in a sort of doctor feel good sort of round circle with chairs. We all sit down and we have a group talk. And my desire for that is to you know, find the resonances between each musicians and to try I think there's a scene.
At the moment.
There's a lot of musicians that have a lot to say, and I think, especially on TV, it really annoys me that musicians are often asked to come and perform, but never ask to sit down and talk.
I mean compared to.
Actors or directors or I don't know, yeah, people in movies for sure. I just feel that it's a shame because there's a real voice that is missing out, especially on TV. So, yeah, that's the idea. So for the first episode we shot a few weeks ago, which is going to be broadcasted before the end of the year on URTE the channel it's a front called German channel, but it's also it's going to be available on the
web on the Anzi web worldwide. So I invited Primal, scream Idols and a young band from home called Life, and it was amazing. It was great because it would just worked out really well. There were some, you know, incredible parts of the discussion, and the live performances were amazing and the set of echoes is quite unusual. The stage has this sort of white panel coming down to the audience like a white tongue.
I don't know how to describe it.
That the musicians can come up and down and to the crowd, and visually it's quite stunning in this sort of brutalist venue in Paris underneath the Palette Tokyo Museum. So yeah, so that was the idea. But yeah, never in my life I thought, oh my god, I'm going to do TV show. It's going to be happening. But it just happened, and I'm glad and I feel we're going to know really soon if we get a series
or if we can do more. I've already received the emails like Underworld want to be on the TV show received, Yeah, like friends have been contacting Me'd be like, oh, we want to do the Gennibeb Show, and I'm really happy about that. I just want to bring my friends on TV. Really, that's all I want to do. I want to talk about what they're doing.
And yeah, I think it's interesting you saying that you felt like there was a lack of opportunity for artists to come and speak in a long form way on TV. It always seems to be the way that you know, for example, if you're watching something like Jules Holland, it's like, oh, here's ten seconds with this artist to say something.
There's the big artists.
Of course exactly, and it's and then all the same with like the Graham Norton Show or something. It's like you perform and then you're on the sofa for all of thirty seconds to somebody say, oh, your new singles out.
Yeah, I've done that, We've gorillas. We performed and me and Denman went to the sofa.
It was fine. I did a good joke and then that was.
It, exactly.
But I wish I wish there was more of another way of seeing.
This, Yeah, a chance to be more expansive and actually get into explore some of the theme and the intention and all those things that go along with making music.
Obviously, you know, put the artists on the same level as well. Like when we did the first piece of eCos, the Bobby was sitting Ridols and life and you know, they're all on different times in their careers, you know. And but it's a group discussion, and I've witnessed so many discussions like that in backstage, you know, at festivals or musicians just meet up and share, and I think
that's how we exchange knowledge. We can not repeat mistakes, we can expand our mind or just oh you do this this way or that's interesting, and you know, and just yeah, have the sense of community as well, which exists in hip hop, you know, and I wanted to be and it exists in my community, but I wanted a platform to show it.
Did you enjoy the role of being host? And you're used to broadcasting speaking to artists, you like, you say, you've been doing the radio show for a number of years now, but this is a different thing. It's a new format, something brand new. So you've been thinking about Yeah, how did you feel about doing that?
I mean I definitely didn't eat that day for sure. No, I was a bit nervous, but I think it's because it's the first time and you want to do it right, so you get you put a bit of pressure on yourself. But I enjoyed it.
I just.
I hope the artist enjoyed it. That was my main concern and that's what I've been telling The whole team has been working on the TV show, and like you know, it's all about them. They need to be happy with the sound, they need to be happy about the welcome, the way they treated about the food, about you know, it's simple as that. But if artists are happy to do something like that, because no artists I know like love to do promotion or love to do TV shows.
But if it happens well, and if it's a good it's a good you know, it's a good reception, it's you know, it's a good team and it's a good then they will want to come back.
So that's that was my main point.
Could you make a TV show like that in the UK? It doesn't feel like maybe do.
You I mean, does Lauren love and you don't know how lucky you are out to have BBC six. You don't know, like, because in France there isn't there isn't a platform for music I love to listen to. I mean, yesterday morning I put on BBC six and there was song to the Saren and I was like, WHOA really? I mean, I would put that on when I wake up in the morning. But in France there isn't and there isn't a platform radio OTV for the music I listen to.
For sure.
You mentioned that it's going to get broadcast later in the year. You're presumably excited to hopefully do more. Yeah, I mean, it's great that you've already got people getting in touch saying that they want to be involved. I mean I saw some of the photos from the recording. It did look like really futuristic, but it's like the set design. It looked really high spec and really stylish, and also like the kind of thing that you would
if I was an artist. It would look quite inviting to be like, I think I want to do.
That, I hope.
So yeah, So the set was designed by Antoine Carlier, who's the designer in my label, Papmar Record, and he's designed a whole set, and he's doing the art direction of everything, and then Johnny Horsta is doing the music for the you know, the intro and all them. So it's a very close team, Like it's my friends as people I know really well have been working.
With for a long time.
I can't wait to see the first episode out before the end of the year, and I do hope there's going to be more because it sounds fantastic.
Yeah, well me too.
Let's see you mentioned one of the artists that you had there on the TV shows Idols. To see their rise has been really exciting.
Yeah, it has.
Their message so direct. You know Joe and the band, well, you've met them on a number of occasions. Have you kind of witnessed their ascent the last eighteen months and really been like, yeah, we need a band like that. Yeah.
Absolutely, I feel very close to what I doos are doing. I was very happy to meet Joe and the Band. I went to see them at the Electric Ballroom when they did like for three or four nights in a row, and we went there every night. And you know, there's obviously some similarities with Savages, I think on the way they addressed the audience to where the message is really direct when brutalism came out, so I had Joe on the show, on the radio show, because I felt very
interested lyrically of what he was doing. He's one of my firs lyricists. His directness is harness ty. But the nobleshit thing, I think is what really attracts me to them, and the violence in the sounds, and then I mean,
obviously the fact that they're a band of men. They're sort of reinventing what it means to be a man in a band, you know, this sort of which I think it was very necessary because we've been having a lot of conversations about how women are in a band or what it means or what it is, and then suddenly they come about and they're like, oh, you know, you can be a band full of men, and it doesn't have to be you know, sex and dragon and
rock and roll. It can be or it could be, but I mean it can be about being sensitive as well, or talking about subjects which are unexpected, you know, fatherhood, you know, And I love that. I think that's reinventing something, and I think they're bringing a new conversation to the scene, which I love.
And moving the narrative on perhaps out of a you know a lot of different music styles can maybe get caught in a cycle of repeating similar themes or refrains or visuals. You know, is it important you think to hear a band coming out? I mean, Savage Is are a perfect example of that, moving the narrative forward, like we always need that to advance what it is we're listening to.
I remember when Savages came out. I mean at the beginning, when we started, it felt quite alone. I mean I didn't feel like we had a scene and we had which I think there is now. I think it's kind of different now with bands like Fountains, DC, Medal, Capital Crows. There's you know, idols, there's this sort of even sonically, there's something going on with guitar music, which I think
is interesting. But what I like is that there's also an eclecticism about it, like bands and you know, like Joe would say, like you listen to hip hop and then you want to write a song, or you listen to techno and you want to write a song, but the outcome is, you know, rock music.
I suppose the last time you and I met up was I think almost three years ago, and it was coming towards the end of the touring that you've done for the second Savages record. Yeah, and you were talking about lots of projects that were in the pipeline to do with your own composition, your own music. Some of those have come to fruition in the last like twelve months. For example, the work that you've done on the Chelsea
Manning movie soundtrack that you did earlier this year. What attracted you to the idea of working on that project.
So Tim Hawkins, the director, contacted me and me and said that he wanted me to be involved in some ways or another into the soundtrack. I wanted to work with Johnny Harstadt on this because he's very, very, very good with instrumental music, and we have a long term relationship in terms of making music together. So I knew it was kind of going to be easy to do it together in the studio in Paris, and we had
sort of a short deadline to do it. So we started working straight away and pretty soon we realized it was going to be easy because team had the same references as ours, where we were sort of talking in the same language or It was great and.
The movie is.
I mean, it's a political subject. Chelsea Manning is you know the trance wilstle Blower who created wikiliks really, I mean not created, but like was a big part of story exactly, And so it's a political subject or however, it's not why I did it. I mean, I admire her as a as a historical character, I admire her courage, but just a prospect of making music for a long, long movie, long length movie was exciting and a good movie.
Because it's a really good movie. It's funny how it's turned out to be quite a movie about someone, about a human being instead of a political figure. And I don't know if you've seen a movie, but that's quite Some people don't like it for that reason, but I love it for that reason. It's not an activist movie, you know what I mean?
No, exactly. It concentrates on Chelsea Manning, like the character and.
Her feelings and her emotions and how she struggles with what she's done and tries to make sense of.
Who she is the process of being involved with that. That the soundtrack, if we just isolate that, people can go away and listen to that. It's a very moving, very atmospheric, chilling, beautiful piece of composition that the movie's soundtracked by that you yourself and Johnny worked on. Did you work to the images that we're going to appear on screen? Were you given a brief? How did it? How did that set of songs come together?
I agree with you with the notion that the music is there's a gentle ness to it, And I think that's what we were trying to bring because her, what she goes for is so harsh, so hard, it's almost like you want to approach it with delicacy. You don't want the music to take over what she's feeling. So there is a gentle ness to the music. I think for that reason, I'm trying to envelope her, to support her to Yeah, there's also really more harshness in the music when it comes to war and it comes to
talking about those things. The references were quite wide. I mean, obviously there's the Atticus Russ and Trent Dresner, you know, soundtracks and the use of piano electronics reference, which I think we will agreed on straight away with Johnny, Tim and I.
The social network Did they work?
Yeah, the social network exactly, maybe a bit of mister Robert, you know the idea, you know, all the hacker sort of side of it, and yeah, and the rest was just trying to I think Johnny said something interesting when describing our process was we were like the band and Chelsea Manning was the singer, the lead singer, because she was leading the way. You had to support what she was going through, what she was saying. And sometimes we even tuned the music to her voice.
Which sounds crazy, but are you finding like interviews on YouTube.
And stuff, and you know that her voice in the movie.
Oh okay, so you're working to the.
Word you would be saying. We used it as if it was a lyric and tried to tune or instruments to her voice, okay, just to fit as much as we could too.
Huh.
Was that the first time you've worked in that sort of way in a film you mean? Or oh yeah, just just because yeah, you were taking this segments of interviews, I suppose, the documentarian style storytelling and then creating some original compositions. So was that like a new challenge, a new way of exploring your own creativity.
It was new in the sense of making a long lend movie. The music from start to end. But it didn't feel new in a sense that we felt ready, like because we had worked a lot on image before. Me and Johnny, we did a lot of work for like years back. We did some work for Chanel, like doing music for their images and things like that, and with a film company were involved with in France, and we had a few experiences doing you know, short films
or so it didn't feel new completely. And the idea of crafting music to a context as well as something we've done a lot with savages, like we would write our own music for the pre shows. We would, you know, or write music for an intro of a video or adapt music and always doing that and that's work we've always done with Johnny. So it didn't feel new in that sense, you know.
Yeah, did you feel moved the first time you saw the movie and everything complete?
Yeah?
I mean I've always moved the first time I watched a movie. I feel one of my favorite scenes when the first time you and Johnny watched it there was no music all the way through. But when we saw the first time you see her in the movies, when she she's released and she's walking up the plane the private jet that they so she has a live vest and we could hear music even though there was no music.
It was sort of really mind blowing to see her walk up plan, especially as you when you know how team filmed that.
He was alone with his camera. There was no.
Guarantee he was going to be able to have that shot. It's a long story short, but like he didn't, nobody knew she if she was going to be released, so until Obama released her, and so he was kind of ready for weeks. He was waiting with his camera and waiting to see where he was supposed to be and to catch that moment and managed to get it. So it's quite moving to see that.
Viewers of Picky Blinders would have heard a snippet of new Jenny Beth music. Yeah, an episode broadcast quite recently during the most recent series, and you kind of shared that and trailed the fact that there's going to be potentially some more music in twenty twenty. Yes, what can you tell me about what you've been working on in that respect?
Right?
I was this was sort of not an accident, a happy accident. Let's say, I think Anthony Burron, the director Peaky Blinders, we've become friends and he's he was interested in hearing what I was working on, and it was his choice to have I'm the Man snippets of there in the episode. I thought that was a great idea, but it was sort of okay, you know, this is happening.
It was, it was sort of funny, but I think it's more and more like the fluidity of that and you know the idea of not planning necessarily and let things happen organically. So, Yeah, they liked the track. They
wanted to have it on the scene. And when I saw the scene with the track, I was like, yeah, because Polly is my favorite character in it, and she's a badass and she just walks out of that car with a cigarette in her mouth and she steps on ship and then she walks, she walks bare feet to Arthur and and Tommy and I think that was just a perfect scene for it, and so I was happy to have it in.
Yeah.
And then so The Picky Blind the soundtracks coming out mid November, and so the track will be in the soundtrack.
Fantastic.
So yeah, so that would be the first Yeah Jenny BEV track coming out.
Killian Murphy's talked about his love of Savages before. Yeah, have you been a long term fan of that show? How did you come.
Across I've watched everything, and I watched it from the beginning and I loved it. Obviously, when Killian wanted to have Savages in it, then it was a no brainer for me for the previous season and then we sort of met, and yeah, I'm a fan of the show. I think it's it's one of those where you have a lead character that is not entirely good, and I think that's what I like about also the Joker that just came out the idea of having a you know,
a hero that isn't one. But also that is sort of making you doubt your morals and I think all your preconceptions about things or are you you see life or and I kind of like that.
I think art should do that.
It should shake you a little bit out of your comfort zone about what you think is right when you think is wrong. And I think Picky has that, and all of the characters AfOR I mean, obviously Tommy's brother is very very flowed.
He has this.
He can't stop himself from being violent, and I think those characters are very interesting for that reason. What I like is that you need a little bit. You need to use your imagination in order to like them. You need to do a leap, you need to do and make an effort. You need to connect things that you don't usually connect with and your connect together in your head. It's not just given to you. And I like that effort that you are asked to do that effort.
What do you think of the Joker film? I went to see it maybe just over a week ago, and I understand why it's been divisive, but I personally thought it was really good.
I don't underst then why it's been divisive. It's it's really crazy with the world we're leaving. I don't understand why things have been taken so seriously. It's that first degree thing that I don't understand. It's a film, it's art, it's not I don't understand why everything has to be put to the real life. Why we make music, why we make films. Do not necessarily have to put it back to real life, to the morals of real life, to the you know, the way we live or we
think in reality. There has nothing to do with a film or with For me, it's I don't get it I don't get away. It has to fit with now, with the morals of today, with the with the way we see things today. I found that very sad when I hear, you know, people say, oh, I don't read that book because the writer was you know, a racist, or it was you know, or it was I get it. But at the same time, I'm like, you know, you can, I know really good people in life, but they don't
necessarily good writers. Like I know it sounds stupid, but I feel I feel for me. But maybe it's because I'm French. I don't know, but you know, like Celine is an incredible French writer, and it hasn't been There hasn't been many amazing writers, you know that can really move forward the literature of French literature and move forward.
Our language, you know.
Or he's he's using our language, the French language, you know, and making it is a mirror to who we are. And and yes he's politics I'm very very wrong. But read it because it's an incredible book and it's just for me. I don't Yeah, I don't get that sort of line where you have to read art through the prism of to this morality.
And there's that culture of almost retrospectively disregarding somebody and like basically applying like today's morals to something that art that was created fifty hundred years ago. It's like, but we live in a different age.
And the morality changes all the time. It's not something that's going to stay fixed.
For me. That film was great. I thought it abandoned all of the familiar tropes of that type of that genre of movie. Yeah, completely, that I've just got completely. I sort of got tired. I was like, I was waiting for something like that to come along, to be like we need regardless of finally, yeah, just having a little bit more refreshing like that genre is going to just you know, it's like we talked about earlier. In music, you can just repeat yourself and you become caught in
these cycles of just the familiar. And yet something like that comes along and you think, Okay, even if you don't like it, that feels like it's an offshoot of that. It's something new, it might create something different.
Absolutely, in the room when there was a back room when we went to see it first night, you came out in France and you could see all the people there were people used to go to see superhero movies like really you know, or even the Last Star Wars, like, well, this isn't it like really commercial movies? And wow, the silence in the room on the first half of the movie was incredible.
Everyone was like, what is this?
Certainly people like that are going to see what I considered to be an art film almost you know, first half of it is kind of really arty.
This goes back to the stuff we were just talking about about. Peaky Blind is about the characters being flawed and full of layers. So the joker to go and try and tell that origin story of an individual that's so complex. Yeah, I admire the fact they tried to do it, and personally I think like they had it made a really good job of trying to really get to the root of really, how does somebody get from being born a human being to be somebody who thinks
it's rational to blow up a hospital? So if you think of those basics to then approach that as a film and be like, right, we're going to have to try and join the dots to get our viewers to that point where and you understand why this individual does that. I thought it was quite an extraordinary piece of filmmaking.
Yeah, and I think if you're studying psychology, you should go into that movie. I think there's a lot of real facts about how insanity cripsion and how you become a killer. I think definitely it's going to be studied that film, no doubt in universities. I think they're going to be showing that to students and that. So how does a murderer come about? Have a look at this film.
It's great that it takes place in that arena that normally wouldn't tackle that type of subject matter.
I agree.
We talked a bit about the music that you've been working on, the TV show, the soundtrack work you've done. What does the next kind of few months hold for you, What are you currently working on, what are you're hoping to do more of? What kind you say for people listening, Jenny's just made a very tight lipped face. You might as done that little thing where you kind of zip the mouth.
Sure, I mean I've been working on new music and be announcement soon. So yeah, I mean I'm hoping to do more of echoes and release new music. Yeah, I'm working on a lot of different things like that. Yeah, so it needs to come. Yes, definitely, announcements soon.
Yeah.
When we met before, we talked a bit about kind of like Savages, and we went in depth talking about how you approach it as an art project and how it was in terms of what happened next. It was important that you all go away and do your own thing. Feel every individual member of the band's head with their own ideas, explore their own creativity, and when the right point comes, come back together. Is that still your attitude towards what's going on with Savages.
I mean, I.
I love Savages. I think it's an incredible band I mean to be part of. I've definitely decided to put it on hold for the reasons that you mentioned. As far as coming back together, there's no plans for now, I don't really have I don't really have a plan one way or another. I think I wanted to collaborate with different people, have different experiences, and I don't really put borders on my mind about what's going to be,
you know, happening next after this. So yeah, no, no exclusion, no you know, no, yeah, no, no particular decisions on that side. I just leave the open. I think that's the where my brain works as well. I don't like to, you know, I don't like to really. I just go where the music takes me and where you know, where my creative it is feels the most excited that I hate to feel bored and I hate to feel trapped and creatively so.
So, yeah, just finding when to ask about some of the music that you might have discovered recently. I know you're a big Nick Cave and the Bad Seats fan. What do you think of the album that came out recently? Have you had a chance to.
I have to say, I'm I'm not that much into it compared to the two last records. The two last records were for me, masterpieces and they were really important part of They really influenced me in some ways. I feel this one is sort of almost too real, too close to the reality of grief, and you know, and I feel a bit like looking at something that doesn't almost I shouldn't be looking at when the others felt a bit more mysterious and sort of yeah, mysterious and
and poetic. And also there's this sort of Jesus thing which seems to be a thing at the moment. I have a hard time with religion, and sometimes I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's because of the cane waste thing at the moment, but I feel like this is sort of a back going backwards artists bringing back religion into their work. And I say backwards because I feel that, come on, we need to we need to get out
of this. And and I'm as strong, We're not as strong, But like I'm not a big fan of religions, and I don't have a.
Hard time with that.
I'm more of a believer in the universe and in science, and and there's so much knowledge of discovered the perhaps a few years getting into that. I feel that anyone who understands that we live on in Earth and the way it is, and that we all made of stardust, and anyone who understands that gets, you know, one distance,
there are actual facts about those things. I don't understand the religion, why religions is to existing, but I mean, so that was my barriers with the Nick Cave record, which I say that with the most respects and the most you know, I love his work obviously, but sometimes sometimes I've actually gone off and on and off, and you know, sometimes really records and I didn't really get
into as much, and it doesn't really matter. It doesn't make me love him less or you know, I don't judge him on that.
I don't care.
So Yeah, I think that's an important thing for anybody who makes music and is just a fan of music to be able to say. It's like when an artist or a band or whoever it is, makes a catalog of work that you don't have to be a devout ten out of ten follower for every piece of work. You know, like, you know, not every Radiohead album has been incredible. I'm sorry, but and.
Sometimes you can go back on records years later. I think that's quite fantastic when that happens, you know, records you were too young to discover, Like remember discovering my own faith Broken English, I mean years later. I was too young when you came out. Yeah, and you have to be ready for a certain record, yea.
Sometimes anyway, good night. This one goes out to all the scratchers lovers.
Scratchers are perfect fun, a little fun.
You can scratch them.
In more ways than one.
A backscratcher could scratch every single.
Squareche A pink plung battle.
Could scratch in a finch.
If you're in the mood, try point to stick or taped together a bunch of toothpicks.
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My passport is in the pocket of the duffel bag I took to Mexico.
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