That's that kind of Pavement dude, the slacker guy. What's he going to talk about?
Stephen Malkmus is of course famous for being a Whole City football fan, but he's also a musician who has played in bands including Pavement, The Silver Jews, and Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks. Earlier this year, he also released a solo album under his own name called Groove Denied, which for the first time sees him move away from guitar led indie rock and more into electronic music. It's a record he puts together using the Ableton software program.
I recorded this episode with Stephen a couple of weeks ago in a hotel room that was about the size of a double bed, and on that bed we sat and spoke mainly about films, but there's also a bit of Pavement chat coming up later for everyone who's a Pavement fan and listening. And just one word of warning before we get going, if you are operating heavy machinery,
please stop for the next thirty minutes or so. This is a very relaxed conversation with Steven, which falls in line with every think that we love Mount Us for and hopefully everything we endeavor to do here on this late night podcast. If you do like what you hear, please consider supporting this podcast by subscribing to Loud and Quiet magazine. All the information is at Loud and Quiet dot com forward slash subscribe, where we will post you our next nine issues for as little as three pounds
a month. It helps us keep the magazine in print, and it also helps us keep producing this podcast. So the last time I saw you play was earlier this year prima Verra Sound. The same day that you played, which I think was on the first day of the festival actually, but earlier that day in the morning, I came and watched your talk about film sound oh good about music in films.
And stuff that someone got to see that you.
Had some wild choices in there. This to explain to anyone listening says that that might not know that you had to pick ten moments of music in film. There were some left field choices in there. The one that sticks out for me was that clip of Hulk Hogan playing a guitar.
Yeah, I like yeah with Obama or something dancing with Ellen. Yeah.
I'll put a link to this under this podcast if people can see that it's a visual treat. Did you get the feeling that they were expecting more mainstream choices from you?
Maybe, I mean, I know how that is. It's not I mean I'm not of course, I was maybe signaling that that that, you know, I was not gonna play that game or something, you know, But like really it's I think we all know a lot of these I wasn't there to just like completely be in a community and like watch I don't know, a Marconi movie or pulp fiction or something that you know, like or you know, say, you know, these certain classic things that we already know,
you know, like are shared memory of that. You know. When given an opportunity to do something like that, it's I want to expand and show people's stuff they haven't seen. And also so I did show some movies that I quite like, and yeah, yeah that's what Peter Fond had just died recently too, his movie after Easy Writer. It's a great movie. And like Mickey wants Arthur Penn, I did Bonnie and Clyde's like as one of his first movies.
And but yeah, you know, media, I was just taking other expanding the idea of you know, just not only kind of classic high budget movies. You know, there's a lot of we consume a lot of low We get a lot of stuff from YouTube, you know, like these days.
Yeah, I like your choices. You chose some good of good. Arka does this really well as well, but certainly better than we do here in the UK. Of TV movies, that's true.
There was the one you showed of, like the kids teenage Shoplifter. Yeah, that was specifically really resonates with me because I'm I'm from born in sixty six, so like that time seventy seven to eighty two was I would say it was the golden age of TV movies or something, and it was like a time when they would show kids would only get to watch TV or watch a movie on TV on a Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon. Right, it'd be like a and they met, they were messaging almost.
It's almost like it could show them in school too.
Yeah, quite educational. Yeah, it was like, have you always been a film guy because you were born in la and do you think like having I know, you moved away when you were a year, sold out of the city, but having been born in that that mecha of obviously entertainment and movies. Does that instill something in you to love movies? Do you think?
I don't think so. Paradoxically, sorry to disagree the my dad, and you know, he's very He's from that region for multiple generations, like pre Hollywood, and it wasn't that they were against what became Hollywood or but it's sort of oblivious. They sort of existed in a world of bankers and insurance agents and real estate developers and not artistic people.
I think he had one friend at his college high school who went to work in Hollywood out of like fifty you know, like everyone else went into just traditional mad Men style era. I mean mad he was a madman guy, was a creative person, but you know these kind of jobs were as martinis and secretaries or something to paraphrase. So I think, just like you, you know, my experience of this stuff is really I never got
obsessed with movies. I would say, you know, I just yeah, respected when I went through older you know, I want to learn about like great artists and stuff, and but you know, also was in the total trash of Porky's and just things aimed at me, Caddy Shack movies like that, Stripes Bill Murray, just just you know, stuff that's aimed at people like me, Like you did some work on
the Bob Dylan film. Yeah, there was a movie by Todd Haynes, a really cool director in a friend of mine who lives in Portland part time, called I'm Not There about Bob Dylan, and he got a bunch of people to say, current artists like Jim James from My Morning Jacket, and there were others just blanking, but he got he was He had me do a ballad of a thin man or it was his idea, which is one of Bob's, my good friend Bob's classic songs, you know,
Bobby's great, amazing songs. I couldn't believe it, you know really, I was like, holy s h I t I can't not worthy. And then the movie got made and then Kate Blanchett, who's like super talented, she lip sync along to my voice in the movie and that was sorry, that was really quite quite incredible for me.
Yeah, has there been any other movie work? I know you were so sad not really liked.
Yeah, I did it sound track music for the show featuring a comedian named Will Arnett.
I loved that show. It was like a net fix. It ran for two series.
That's nice that you watched. It did not take the world by storm in terms of the streaming numbers, But I mean, I guess it was maybe just not wrong time for that kind of show. And but it.
Looked nice because it was set in all of those Waterway's eventage.
Oh yeah, and the cinematographer was good, and the music was amazing.
The music the music felt could have been.
Yeah, but I have done There's I got a friend of mine's making a movie, has made a movie. Her name's Kelly Reiker. She's made some movies like Certain Women. One of them is called and also Old Joy, featuring Will Oldham from the Palace Brothers and Bonnie Prince Billy. He was the star of it. And a couple of other ones with Michelle Williams, one called Wendy and Lucy. But she's made a new movie just it's coming out this next year, and I'm playing fiddle in it. I
don't have any lines, but you're on screen. I'm actually on screen.
In that one.
Yeah, I'm playing fiddle on my lower arm, dressed like an eighteen thirties pioneer, you know in Oregon. So is it.
Is it a period piece?
Yeah, it's period. Yeah, it's all completely period. Everything's supposedly period correct, except the actual people in it are not, because that would be impossible.
Yeah, that would be a fate to do that. Do you have any acting over experienced all ambition? Do you have any ambition?
I don't think so. I mean, it's a big job, but it's like really putting yourself out there. It's enough to put yourself out with music and just being even doing a podcast and and doing promo photos, and you know, it's more. And when you see people that are working in it, like who they are hiring, I mean it's very specific what they want and it's very important. So you know, I wouldn't think that i'd be right for I mean, I guess I'm talking at another next level tier.
I mean a friend's doing a movie or something, I might do it. If we're just like on video cameras and the and the budgets like low. I'm not saying I wouldn't do that, but I've just seen hurt like Kelly go through these trying to cast people. It's like so important, you know, just seeing that who they they really want. It's not only if they're famous. That can be an issue too to get funding. You know, it's nice to get a big star to attract people to
invest in your movie. But you know, it's just like this person has to be this person. You know, it's like the way they have to obsess over that. I mean, I'm a little bit like even in music, I'm like to throw this person on. I mean, I picked somebody, but I don't have to think about that much. The stakes are lower, Yeah, sure, the budgets are lower. And if I pick a fiddle someone to play a fiddle track, or even my drummer, you know, it's just like I just ram it in there and like let's see how
it works. Yeah, And it's not like it's on film. You know, I guess the music. You should know right away if it's bad, but there's or not as good as it could be. But movies can go south, like easily.
I watched it could. It's a documentary really about Terry Terry Gillion, he did Rezilians like that. Yeah, and he tried to make Don Quixote, and there's a documentary not basically about that failing about like it falling apart, and it was like the this cursed film. Yeah, I watched it recently. It's called The Last Man in May that it's really interesting and it's fascinating how quickly a whole film falls apart, Like basically that there's rainfall on the
first day. Yeah, and it just sets this snowball of shit running on this production and it just has to By the end of the week, it's dead. Like years and years of work, it's just over because their budgets were so small and there's no room for that to happen. Yeah, you know, quite quite shocking.
It can be hard, I mean, and just things like tone and I mean other things that a movie can be made, and it can just be bad for like little reasons you know that aren't it's kind of magic when it all comes together.
You're living back in Portland now, right, But there was a period of time when you were you guys went to Berlin.
Yeah, like twenty twelve to fourteen or something like that. I can't remember exactly.
When it was, but what made you choose Berlin?
We want to move away from Portland because it's small town and a little bit repetitive, and it's awesome in its ways, but it's also my partner is a big city person, or she identifies as one, therefore she is, and we were just thinking where could we go? Could have been America, but I always liked it there in a way, and they make it relatively easy for you
to get a visa to live there. There's some of that stuff too, And as we were just searching around for places a stage, she found one like a house that was easy to you know, I guess what I'm saying is I wasn't particularly obsessed with Germany, just looking for a place to go and seem pretty cool. It's not not deep.
Did you go to many of the clubs? Did you get into that world at all?
Yeah. One of my friend friend who is a younger guy, he's a DJ too. He and his wife they're called Local Suicide, and they had a night like every two months they would have their own night. But so I would go to their nights. I also go out with him sometimes like, and he was pretty in the know
about stuff, and so that was good. It was nice to have a guide because I wouldn't looking resident advisor or something and kind of see what's going on on the but I wouldn't really might not have taken the effort. I also probably wouldn't wait in line or something. You know, he would usually get going right, Okay, sorry to say.
Was it Were you new to that world though, like in terms of like electronic music and clubbing and going clubbing.
Yeah, I mean I listened to stuff that kind of clubbing, multi room off your head style late nights. Haven't done that much, kind of avoided it the nineties when pavement was over here during the ecstasy rave culture revolution. I don't know why I think I was. I mean, I was also up my own ass thinking about what I was doing. And in America it was all grunge and guitars, and here it was like a fusion of cool things
going on, and I guess the yellow smiley faces. And I wasn't a big drug taker, so I kind of thought it was. I didn't think of its social ramifications. I just kind of just listened to it and it felt animal, kind of drug animal thing or like the intellectual side of it I couldn't. I couldn't get which I do now.
Was it in Berlin where the new record Groove Denied started? Was that the genesis if the record comes.
A little well a little bit I mean I listened to a lot of that music, but it was more for me was getting different software and hardware in my house and a little bit making that flaked soundtrack that we were talking about. Although they wanted, they didn't want, but I thought that it should be kind of melancholy guitar indie classic rock kind of went with that character.
It got me to start recording myself more. And also a friend of mine gave me Ableton like in twenty twelve or something, but I didn't really interact with it. I just kind of messed around with it. And so once I started recording the bit on that and bouncing that back to pro tools back and forth, and well, just trying to record myself again like demos, which I have done demos, but I didn't try to make them into a final project.
Earlier this year, you're on the cover of Wire magazine and there was a little column in there about you were talking about the YouTube tutorials that you'd watch about Ableton tutor oils. Yeah, to teach you that kind of stuff. I love YouTube tutorials anyway. Yeah, I kind of use them for everything now, mean too, like if I want to put oil in my car.
Yeah.
The first thing I go to is YouTube for that.
Yeah. I texted Dan on a rental car seeing if really, if you use a toilet plunger, does it work or not? That's a recent thing I did.
Did it work?
Yeah? Whether smile Dan, it does work?
Okay?
Deeper Dan, no go.
I always think that people that do those tutorials are good people because they're not doing it for anything other than to be useful, helpful to other people and stuff.
Yeah do you?
Yeah?
I think so?
What would you if you were to upload a tutorial? What would be your what would you do one on? What would you be able to give gift to the internet?
Right? Isn't that sad? Though I don't have anything I can, really, it seems like most people do it better already, you know what I mean. That's the problem.
Yeah, I don't even know if I wanted to, you.
Know, of course I could do a tennis one, but it would be like for people up to my level or people, you know, it would be kind of limited to a person that got my sense of humor. And see the slight irony of me doing that, you know, because I'm already whether I I think I already have like people know me, so you know what I mean. It's like I'm just not like an average dude yet unfortunately. I mean I would be to millions of people, but the first people that went there, they would be like,
what that's that kind of payment? Dude? The slacker guy, what's he going to talk about? You know what I mean?
What would you say to do a perfect surf? What would be your your tennis?
I would just like struggles with the one handed backhand, you know, and like, don't give up on it. Okay, So you watch a lot of tennis and everyone does a two handed backhand, and I'd just be like, you know, the one handed backhands, graceful and stick with it.
It looks good. I went to Wimbledon for the first time, he did.
Yeah, that was a good final this year with Fetter and joking. Yeah, yeah, exciting.
I was there like the week before, like third round kind of matches. Have you been Have you been there?
You've never been there. I just saw some video of like American Breakfast at Wimbledon. We call it because it's on really early and uh, just the fonts, you know, it's like graphics from nineteen eighty eight, and it kind of like gave me like a shiver, and it was like, you know TV graphics from the eighties or you don't like seeing that, Well, I like it, but it you know, it's you kind of it looks good, but it's not
quite kitchy it. I lived through it too, some things that like a younger person can look at the eighties and just appropriate it. Ye, I just think it's cool. Or even the nineties, you know, like if you actually went through if you were like seventeen at that time and just either you just broken out, was something you didn't know who you were or you were you know, you kind of like takes you you know.
Yeah, they've started reshowing like a nostalgia show for the nineties here that was first on in like two thousand and four or something. Yeah, they've just start for some reason, they've just started putting that back on TV here. And I get what you mean because that's kind of my equivalent.
Right you were were you like I was in nineteen Yeah.
In ninety five, I would have been thirteen.
Yeah, So do you reckon like nineties movies? Nineties is one of the best decades of movies. Would you say that this is just a test from a friend of mine who's similar age of yours. Who says yes, who says yes. He says, there's like ten classic movies. You know he'll do like The Terminator and stuff that too. I mean, he's a video director, but he likes some you know, he's like, these are amazing things. I was like, why do you talk about Like, I'm like, seventies are the best movies?
I would say, I would say no. I don't know if I would say that. I've got a fondness for those movies, but I think I can see them for being not not great.
Yeah, not like just out like yeah, that was the time like this amazing stuff was getting made.
I think I think Terminator Too is something else. I think that's like another level, but a lot of it. I don't think it's aged very well. Oddly that like that thing you're saying about, like the graphics not being old enough to be kitched. Like if I if I see back to the Future, I'm kind of Star Wars. Yeah, for some reason, that's fine. That that almost looks newer and more high tech than Terminator Too. You know what I mean, that's true, Like I don't know why it shouldn't.
It shouldn't at all because it's ten years older, but there is something in that.
Yeah, the memory is different. Back to the Future is like my friend, I haven't seen it lately. My friend said she saw it and it was like the worst movie. She couldn't believe that it got so but it Yeah, that it's I don't get my mind. I remember it being kind of funny, and you know, I see people wearing fuck effing Back to the Future t shirts now still, and like it has a pull on people. You know, that's like maybe blasphemy that I would say that to some people, you know.
Yeah, it's that and the Goonies. Yeah, that's enough what I felt. So, so your your kind of Golden Year films? So you think the seventies films are the best?
I kind of think all things are best from the seventies, be it music or you know. So what h were you in ideas of feminine beauty?
How old were you in seventy five?
Eleven nine? Okay? But yeah, so I was like, I don't know, that was sixty six. I was so, yeah, I do, I mean I do. I know more about the music, the movies and the music, and it I mean I like that production techniques and obviously there was a lot of ability to spend a lot of money. I mean I like how some new stuff sounds to the I mean, don't get me wrong, when I hear these, even like Drake or Kanye West productions, I mean they there, they come on and they're like very huge sounding in
my car. Yeah, so someone knows what they're doing. Don't get me wrong. It's not like there hasn't been a it's just digital and this was back in the analog times and maybe a lot of time spent on arrangements.
And do you have a record before from the seventies that you think sounds particularly good that you just love that?
There's tons of them. I mean even the Rumors and Steely Dan. I mean there's that whole time. I mean these are the bigger, the Pink Floyds and led Zeppelins, those records are really good sounding.
I think, have you seen anything good this year?
I like the I mean I like the I just in terms of things I purely want to like and like our movies like Midsummer you know, I want that kind of movie to work, or Ben Wheatley or these kind of you know, new horror, things under the Skin, that kind of movie, like I like, sort of dystopian sci fi or horror without the torture porn. Yeah, you know, that's what I kind of like, just for fun. Yeah, okay,
so that's what I'm on the lookout for. I'm always hoping that there'll be another classic, whether it's Rosemary's Baby, Exorcist, Worlds, it's something that I like, you know, I can't help it.
Yeah, that's fair enough.
Yeah, it's fun. So I hope for those kind of movies. I don't know what about you.
You know, have you seen that film Eighth Grade?
Yeah, we saw that. I like that, yeah, yeah, yeah, And.
I thought Book Smart was amazed. Have you seen Books Smart?
Yeah? Book Smart? Those are both and I like those kind of saw those both with my daughter. Actually, she wouldn't watch Eighth Grade because she was in eighth grade and it was yeah, too close. Yeah, I mean it was just she just thought it was yeah, corny into what if it was if it was called something else, she would have seen it, you know what I mean, right right?
Yeah, of course I.
Thought those were both really good.
I thought the performance is the performance in eighth Grade of the main act. Yeah, act, I thought she was incredible. Yep, and book smart. I just thought it was just that was fun good.
Yeah, that was a little bit first world problems too again, but I still liked it. Yeah. There it was like a lark, but it was like gallivanting. I mean it was so unbelievable, which I sort of. I mean, the school, all of them going to Harvard, I mean it was a it was a satire obviously, you know, or whatever. So you know, it wasn't trying to be real. That gives it a pass for me, even almost, you know, like, man, we watched in the what was this movie? It was
the nastiest movie. Ryan Philippe and the girl that played like Buffy the band player Slayer I think, and they're like two rich stepsister and brother. Yeah, that movie is the most vile movie. Like I get was it made when Portrait of the Serial Killer came out or.
I think it was made, and I think that's one of those nineties.
Yeah, just the set, the tone of that movie is just it's so mean and like, I just don't it could only be made at I guess at the height of supposed you know, internet stocks are booming and decadent, you know are because it was like, who am I supposed to like? Or you know, there's no one to like in it?
As I say, last time I saw he was a Primavera playing and doing your talk about the films. And then at the end of Primavera, like three days after that, they obviously announced like the next year, which was the pavement stuff. Were you still on site when that was announced? Stuff? You were out? Youre well?
But I knew they were going to do it and stuff because I was told not to tell anybody about it until that point.
Did you manage to keep that to yourself?
Yeah?
It wasn't a tempting to not.
Really, I mean told like a couple of people, but just tell them not to say anything. And it had been Yeah, there's just been some chatting about it with those promoters and our original agent in America that had been with us forever, and he just kind of put the steal together with them, and all of a sudden, it just seemed like it'd be really fun thing to do.
Because I was actually there ten years. It'll be ten years. It was a premium bear before, wasn't it, Like, Yeah, we played there at ten that's true. Yeah, when you reformed the first time, I like that kind of every ten years Pavement could just get together and.
That would be nice if it could work out that way. I don't know if all of us will be around for the next ten we're only like in our early fifties, but certainly nothing to count count on.
Yeah.
So yeah, that was even a reason for me to I want to do it too, because like everyone was still like relatively fit. I mean, there's we're like wrinkled and gray and stuff, but ish and but I like to think where we you know, we still have some we're not too far gone. Yeah, sure for this kind of thing. Yeah, where you're just like old totally like
you know, like baby boomers up there or something. Yeah, you know, you know the studes yet No, So I thought, yeah, we can do it and everybody's still can play, and you know, I don't know, have you don't have like hip problems or something.
Yeah, have you guys got together yet to practice?
Now we're going to do it in May before like for many weeks, for a couple of weeks to get ship our stuff together.
Yeah yeah, sure, so we haven't done that, but nice. Yeah, looking forward, to already. Is it just going to be that show or is it going to be.
Too Porto cool?
That's all I'm done.
Yeah, just nice because that's just weird. So we're going to do that.
It's good to keep it weird.
Yeah, make it special. I mean it's expensive for people to come to I realize that, but it's not like I want to endorse this festival above all others. But I have had fun there. It has a diverse programming now that's you know, birth from the dudes being like indie rocker guys to expanding it to the way the world is now where.
Yeah. I thought the lineup this year was really fun. Yeah, and they got quite I think they got some stick for it. They did that fifty to fifty gender split, which I thought was a great thing. Yeah, and a lot of kind of maybe traditional rockist dudes probably kind of gave them a hard time about the Miley Cyrus booking and Lizo and all of that stuff, But I thought it made it. I thought the atmosphere was incredible on the side.
I mean, there's always a place for you to go if you're that Yeah, exactly, you could just stick quiet us reading rocker person or just Blur fan or something or whatever that meant then is between that modern rockist anyway. I think most of us are. Our tastes are like more diverse now anyway.
So just like the lineup, So how's how's the new record been received? It feels like it's been received pretty well.
Yeah, it's been a while since it came out, and like internet days, it's like been forever.
Yeah it's ancient now, Catches.
I didn't come out. Yeah, I didn't come out, and I've had a lot of stuff happen, so I'm kind of picking it back up again, you know, in a way. I did a tour in America and it went really pretty well. I thought I did a good job for not doing anything like this, you know, trying to offer up just not as a dude with a guitar, singer, songwriter solo show. Yeah, I think it. I mean, you have to play to your strengths. And I wouldn't say
my strengths. I'm not like hanging out at clubs all the time or really messing with my dance loop modes, you know. So I mean I have to be honest. I'm good at guitar and not as good as that.
But good enough. I think the records, you know, the records great. Does it feel like it's like just kind of as a record that steps away from what people know you for and having that kind of electronic element to it. Does it feel like having released it? Is that like a bit of a itch scratch now or are you I want to do it more of that?
In a way. I think that's kind of the way to go these days, is the scratch? It is just don't I just don't want to keep doing the same thing, you know, It's like it's a point that I've done. I sometimes feel like I've wrestled a lot out of a more puritanical guitar, so like I just do it and people it's cool, but it just it's like more of the same or just refining the same thing. I'm
just like I could do that. I don't want to like say it's all bad, but it seems like it's maybe a time to approach things from a different angle, not only in a mid life crisis type way, but in a way that is more reflective of the world the way it is now.
You know, Stephen, thank you for coming on the podcast.
Appreciate the pleasure
Anyway, good Night,