Ep 77: Serge Pizzorno, Kasabian

Like Radiohead do their thing to get people where they need to get them and ca Saban we do our thing to get people where they got I think totally different approach.

Evening, everyone, thanks for joining me here on episode seventy seven of the podcast, Greg here. Tonight's guest on Midnight Chats is Sergio Pitsorono aka Surge from Cassabian, the band's guitarist and chief songwriter.

He maybe feels like a bit.

Of an outsider choice to some people compared to who we normally have on the podcast, But I've met Surge a few times over the two decades his band have been together, and I've always thought that he's not necessarily like what a lot of people expect or into the things that people might expect. Casabian are on a bit of a break at the moment, but Surge has kept working. He recently released his debut solo album under the name

What have you been up to?

You had your feet up? Have you been watching Glastonbury, watching the world up? What kind of things you've been up to?

I went to glass though, he went as a yeah, just went with nothing to do when my wife went so you.

Be the kids at home?

Yeah?

So you actually had the genuine Glastover experience.

It's I gotta say it was like so probably fifteen years have been going there I have been going there fifteen years and I probably traveled from back behind the pyramid to the other stage and then behind the pyramids on the pyramid, and I thought it was Glaster's amazing.

It's massive.

Little did I know walking into the place, I mean like the main stages and it's like a two percent of what it is. It's you know, obviously I'm this is no revelation, but for me it was I was like, what have I been doing all this time?

Man like?

And so yeah, we literally went over to like shangle Are and then is it Sector nine or there's.

A there's as like block nine block is that the thing with the big.

Yeah, and there's a pier and then the park stage. It was amazing. I was blown away. And It's crazy that I've been going there that long and not haveing handy clue.

So did you end up spending time investigating that part of Glaston.

I did, yeah, class I loved it there, man, it was great. I saw a few things.

Do you know what though?

You need like orienteering, like you know, the logistics are going right, we need to go here. That's not how man, I'm not going anywhere You've got you know, you've got a plan.

But I was, yeah, I was.

I still felt a sense of pride as well because obviously we headlined it and I was you know, I knew it was special and I know it was like you know almost like you know, we really that was a talk. You know, we really thought at the start of the band was like imagine, that's kind of where we want to get to.

But I had a sort of second wave of that going.

Man, that is such an art like it really is this, you know, the scale of it all, It's like.

Wow, that was really special, you know who with the highlights in terms of the artists you saw from the weekend.

And slow time.

We talk about him later, Yeah, yeah, I mean I've seen him a few times and he's just he's the real he is the real deal man.

He's very where he is now, you know as a front man.

It took us like now we're sort of the last album, we're sort of we're in a place where I think we've figured out who we are, what we do, you know in terms of the live show, and he's there, like he's there, and he's like he's not you know, his album has been out like two weeks like I don't know what he's just and then the way he controlled that crowd and away delivery, the confidence, and.

I was it was it was blown away.

I would you know, if Storms he's opened the door, then I would like to think we live in a world where the slow headline.

Of last, because I think he'd absolutely kill it.

Did you watch the Storms the headline show?

I saw a bit, but a kind of miles away. Yeah, I mean it was job done, really wasn't It was incredible?

It was incredible.

I saw a Dave as well, So you saw the moment when that guy Alex.

Was all over the internet.

Man, I was like he was on Good Morning Britain three days because I was like someone sent me the next morning.

I was like, oh man, we must have because again it's like you sort of have to, you know, we need to get somewhere else.

Then it's like the walk.

I can't get over his delivery, like Chris like effortless flow. Again, it was like that's some that's some skills there. I think his albums incredible. I saw a bit of Taming Parlor, the sort of perfect sound. I kind of couldn't get over how like I was like, that's that's pretty incredible noise they're making. I don't know, like I'm just seeing like tying that and he's just you know, having Parker is like, it's beautiful thing.

I'm great, But you know that element.

It's the opposite ends of the spectrum in a way, isn't it? Because the no show Bez No No in Parlor is kind of like this is the music.

It's kind of delivered without any effortless kind of.

Yeah, it was great, It was It was It was sa a bit of ponds as well.

Yeah.

I had a lot of plans to, you know, go and see a lot of people, but they all just fell to pieces.

How did you feel by the Sunday given that he did it in a kind of almost as a punter.

You know, I did stay in the hotel around the corner.

You cheated, I did, do you know what? Though?

When I turned the air con on.

You're like, this is the greatest I've ever made, because like I did feel a bit like.

I did feel a bit like I cheated a bit. But then my mates were in this tent and they they got the posh tents, you know, the ones that are already set up, and they were like sending me text going and this is the hottest word. I was like, you know what I did cheap, I don't care with a nice cook breakfast in the morning, man in a shower. And on the Sunday it was a bit like just get off, just go fucking but no we did.

We made it down there and we saw a bit of it's kind of mad.

The Sunday was a mad KINDI and Marley Cyrus and the Cure.

How do you look back on headlining that festival, because that was twenty four fourteen, What are your recollections from stapping on the pyramid stage of the headliner?

Like genuine fear, genuine to keep the car running, you know what I mean. I might just not I don't know if I really. I mean it was never not I never, but there was genuine like man, this is this is like a I don't really never get I mean I get nervous excited, but it's on a low level.

This was serious. This was like we built. It felt like it was this sort of you know, we were going to.

Meet It's ther World Cup final, isn't it.

We're going to meet meet a maker?

You know what I mean?

It's like Have you got it? Have you got the goods? After all this time and the journey you've been on, you know you're going to be there? What you know? Have you got anything?

You know?

You know?

So the first three songs, I was like, you know, it was I don't know, I kind of really know what the hell was going on, like shell shock, you know what I mean, because we're loud anyway, and it was just like I was trying to figure out like one hundred and twenty thousand people in front of me, and I know this is on the telly everywhere. You know, I don't have a dimensional because I've sat on the setting and watched it and going, fuck, we all do it,

So that was going on.

But I've learned to use all that and project out like I need it to perform. I think I need that, I need all those voices to at some point just tell them.

All to leave me alone.

Fucking leave me alone, and then I just and then I just become one of the beastie boys, you know, with a Rickenbacker.

You know what I mean.

I think that's kind of where I where, like, you know, that's what I've over the years figured out my place in the kind of what I do live is you know, like an m C with a guitar, you know what I mean, try and and if I can feel the crowd now take I feel a responsibility that we need to give the these people that bet at night and entertain. Maybe back in the day, I resent like you just

That's just like when you first started out with.

Maybe yeah, but and it's also you're probably not got the goods. You're not got it in here to go.

You know what.

Fuck they're not into it, and I'm I want to you know so, and it's like no, no, no, I'm going to make this. I'm going to make you learn to make things happen, like you know, you can make shit happen. And that was a turning point of me on stage where I started to feel more more of a like it's all about creation for me and all about you know, that's that's what I buzz off more

You know, the solo album.

Is, why did I decide that it would be a good idea to just do an acoustic song on my own at glastony is like, and I've turned around to get the guitar and I'm like, wow, this is huge, this is like it might going ah fuck, what the chords again?

What are those? What are those?

What's the first line? Just as I'm about to sing it, and that's all going on. That goes really well, and the crowd sing and everyone sort of relaxed with band relaxed.

I put the guitar down and had a.

Little word myself and said, mate, if you can do that anything from now on in it's a piece of yeah yeah, And then I relaxed, the crowd, the boys, everyone was just like and then the gig from that moment just took off.

And it was you know, it was the best, the best night we've had as a band.

In that case, if the opportunit he ever came again, would you do it again? Or you're almost like it's almost too good to touch.

Mm hmm, I couldn't. Yeah, I'd have it again.

Better.

Oh you think there's more to give, like yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. There's something interesting about something comes out of a performance from an artist when they get to headline Glassaby for the first time, right, I.

Think it's that from Stormzy.

Effectively, it's not only them going this is what I do, but I think there's also an element of I've earned this, this is my platform, this is my first time. There's a certain energy that goes with doing something for the first time, the fear and all the adrenaline everything else. When you come back and do something for the second time, can it be better or it's just different, or because you've there's sometimes you've headlined.

Festivals, yeah multiple times.

Probably, Yeah, it's a difficult one because you're you're absolutely right observation that the nerves and the energy of that, but there may be a little more confidence in knowing it's going to be okay and knowing that you know, you can kind of yeah, I don't know, you just maybe enjoy the moment and sort of take it in rather than sort of be this kind of like mad ball.

Of excitement and energy.

You can maybe, but I just think, you know, we've had another record since then. You know, if we were to do it again, we'd have another record, so we'd have more music.

And yeah, I mean, I'd absolutely love to do it.

And now that you've seen Glass from the other side.

And I think that's probably why, yeah, where it comes from, it was a better understanding. Yeah, and it was amazing to be stood in the middle of that crowd and at the pyramid and stuff seeing back.

So talking about putting yourself in a situation where you want to challenge yourself and do something new. We made a solo album. The SLP is what it's called the project and the name of the album. By the time people hear this, the album will be out. When did you first have the idea that you wanted to do this? How long has that been kind of moving around in your mind?

It came through.

We decided to have a year off because we'd look back at the you know, the last fifteen years and realized we've not had a summer off.

If we've not made an album, we're still toured.

It was I think six albums in and where we've got to it was the right.

Time to just disappear for a little bit.

And I thought, I don't know what I'm going to do, Like I'll start writing anyway. And then I had sort of this meanwhile music in a hard drive, and I thought, well, this would be the time I wanted to put that out.

I was just going to sit there for ten years.

And is that stuff that you've been like tinkering with when you've been writing a material for Kasdabian you've kind of gone not quite right or for whatever reason, that doesn't feel it feels more like it's part you just instinctively knew it was part of something else.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it's movie soundtrack, you know, sort of how much I love that world.

They didn't feel right, But I thought, what would be really interesting is this.

Beginning, middle, and end Meanwhile in general, you know, meanwhile the welcome break meanwhile on the side, and now with it, I thought, really I was kind of I thought, I just fill in the gaps between and make something that wasn't didn't have to consider a headline in glastroom me. You know, make go in the studio, work on instinct, get a beat, get a rhythm. If it's good, don't question it. It goes in. And I enjoyed making it.

It goes in. That was it, and I wanted to.

Like this meanwhile thing of It's like a meanwhile in the back cave. You know, yeah, it's like Bruce Wayne you Batman.

It's like just another part from SAB.

You always have to remember that of it, and you know they s LP, so it's it just made sense to me, I could see what it like. I didn't want to just go, oh, I just put something around Matt because you know, it's like always there always has to be a reason and an artistic sort of no point to it for me to just go, I can

Yeah, like David.

Byrne Bowie and all these boys that are big fans of do you.

Think it will surprise people because it's an album that visits a lot of different corners of your musical taste. Like, yes, this is personally speaking, but it's quite diverse. So you've got tracks on it. This could be like an m A track, You've got some kind of like bally eric kind of almost like melancholy dance club track. You've got Scott Walker esque like beautiful spaghetti western strings. So it

Yeah.

Yeah, it's each each each each tune is an element of me that I it's part of it.

Say, it's a specific element of my personality.

That's like I sort of what all the things you've just mentioned, Then that's that's my record collection.

Then you know it's interesting, isn't?

Because I think maybe there are some people that think they imagine you working at home and listen to your favorite music. They're just thinking, oh, so it's probably listening to the Beatles record again or whatever, but in fact you're probably more likely to be found listening to like death Scripts or something.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I mean it spans like I I sort of go through phases, but I'm something earlier. It's like, I'm fascinated by things like any interests me and if you with a little bit of human as well. I was sort of you know, there's certain bands that I hear, certain things that little twist, a dark humor that's in all my work. Really, if it's not a love song, and I don't like many of them, has to make me laugh. That has to be an element of things that would.

Make is that kind of like almost like the no Fielding approach to come with you or something. There's always like a there's always like a dark sort slightly macab weird twist.

Yeah, and I wanted the album to have surprises. I wanted no point you sort of go. I wanted that I was not expecting to do this, and in every track there is a moment where it just goes what and you go, okay, this is so yeah, and that that was a huge that was again from the outset. I kind of wanted, you know, that surprise element, you know, getting sims on, getting slow tie on, and then songs.

So why the guests you just mentioned there.

So you've got Slow Tie and you've got Little Sims kind of at the vanguard of like young British talent. Why choose to work with somebody like that, because obviously when you approach you're like, you know, you said you're going to do this project. Could have gone out there and asked any manner of kind of artists that you've met over the years that you know, why choose Little Sims and Slow Tie over asking Paul Weller all like no Gallagher to come and play a few licks with you?

Well, I mean, I just I wanted two young British artists and I think those two are the forefront what's exciting about now? You know, you know I did toy with sort of maybe like you know, do it maybe sort of American sort of MC, but I just didn't feel like this field am feels very personal British to me. It feels like where I am now and where I see the world now. It was as simple as they you know, two people that I really think are incredible,

Yeah, it's like a sort of married Actually stuff trumpet goes the background, isn't it, and he's not delivering it with like supreme aggression, this sort.

Of psychedelic spoken word poem. Yeah, you know, I sent over a little.

Thing about you know, the service station or something like.

I like the idea of the middlm and welcome break and coming off the motorway mad places and the'start a metaphor for you coming off having the rests getting back on.

You probably know Britain's.

Yeah, they're mad man three in the morning. There's parties going on in those toilets. You've never seen anything like it, mate, There's something quite.

It's almost like uniquely British about how massively about bad our.

Service stations are.

So bad and the food is like it's it's like it's disgusting. Really there's ship they serve your so you know what I mean. It's like, oh man, you know, it's like just had food. It's like fuck, crag sausage. Role is also doubled the price in the service station. It's just not on May. It's terrible. So yeah, it's so that I'm really you know, I'm so honored to have them on and Sims, you know.

Just it's just just ridiculously talented.

You know.

That's the little twist in Favorites where you know you're not expecting that to happen.

So people will probably have seen the video for Favorites where you're doing some dancing in front of a green screen. It's kind of looks like it it's sort of like this interpretive almost like looks like kind of improv reacting to the music type thing. When you turned up that day, it was you, it was a green green it was the track obviously, and then how much of the actual routine was planned.

Well, it's funny because I talk three who have worked with over the years, collaborate with so much stuff, and they did the artwork and he directed that video and we spoke before about ace Ventura and Gene Kelly because he I think he researched like Birds of Prey, you know, to get the sort of famous walk and stuff. That was like, you know, imagine those two together. So I'd

So but yeah, there was a lot of dancing. Man. I was tired at the end of that day. Man, there was like it's all like really stiff and you have to sort of get.

Your Peter Crouch's robot some of it.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I really I do love dancing. I really do want to.

I might go away secretly for like a year and learn properly, just join diversity and then come back.

Do you know what I mean?

I really I do you know that, you know, really nail it because I do love it.

I do love it so much.

I mean I started my issue in first musical instrument was a sampler and theart it was rave hardcore was my that was my That's the beginnings of where I started my journey.

But there was about dancing, you know.

I my best mate's brother he was he was banging to it as well. James and me and him would like we'd go around to his house and we'd like we would put we would put like top was.

On, and we would dance for an hour.

It's funny because I've been talking about this and it's just suddenly occurred to me, Like, you know now you're talking about the video and the dancing. Yeah, you know what, it's a huge part of Like I love it a lot.

You know, what are you going to do when it comes to the live show? You're going to try something different.

It's in my If I can get what's in my head to to the stage, then I think we'll have. I think we'll have and it will be a good night out. I don't want anything. I don't want any picture. I don't want you. I don't want at any point you take a photo and you can you wouldn't be able to tell if it's caaing or if it's so.

I don't want to.

Oh, you want it to look completely different. It's going to be a completely be a different band.

Obviously, there's Tim and Ben who play with its live and Tim who helps with the records.

I mean, he's a genius. Tim. Without him, none of this is possible.

Put it this way, I don't want to get I'm not going to pick up guitar two way late in a set. Talking about putting yourself in fearful situations and like, have I got the goods for this?

Man?

I'm going to The best way I've been describing it is, you know, just fall in the morning, you find you see this light emanating. You think the night's over, and you see these lights coming out of this little doorway and there's a bouncer there and you can't get in unless you've got the past words. Someone's got it so

Is this joint? But I want it.

I don't want it to feel pretentious or because there'll be theater involved, but I don't want it to feel that. Yeah, like like I wanted to feel. I want to feel like I want to put people on edge of it. I want them to feel a little bit uncomfortable. I don't want to just have an element where I'm just you.

I'll be stood in.

The crowd with you and you won't even know kind of thing. So I wanted to just like be like a Oh, I didn't think I was not. I didn't think it would be like this.

I haven't been through the process.

Now.

Is there a lot to be said for going off and going through the process of making us record? Because I think of recent examples of people like Tom York and Damon Albarn who've gone off and done these projects and then gone back to their day job, so to speak, and it actually feels like quite a healthy thing to do,

So what are your thoughts on it? Yeah, that completely the I can see the whole thing through different eyes. Now I can look back and see it in totally different perspective. I kind of know exactly the record that I'll make next. Definitely what the record I want to make. I wouldn't have made, but I don't think I'd even gone anywhere near even wanting to make one or knowing what the hell it was going to be. So it's like, on that level alone, it's the best thing I've done.

A lot of pressure kind of goes through you in terms of being writing a material biglmost kind of running the schedule, as in like right ready to get back together?

Yeah yeah, captain of the team is how does that work?

Do you kind of like message the band WhatsApp group and be like, I've got stuff ready?

Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

I mean it's I think it's a hell of a motivator to like I always think of, you know, I've sort of been in this band now twenty eight odd years.

So.

Twenty years, twenty ninety seven, so twenty two years, and I'm like, so it's you know, I can't we are It's it's I don't even know it's not even a band anymore.

It's just you know, it's like it's weird.

It's like this, So every decision I make is about the band, you know, So it's always there, and it's always like, well, what what's the best move? What's the best move? It's just how it's always been, so I don't we don't, none of us know any difference. So it's like I think we all kind of gave ourselves to this course or whatever.

You know, what do you remember from the first show, was like when you guys were eighteen.

Right, Yeah, yeah, so no, you know what night it was?

Sixteen sixteen? Was that that? That wasn't the show that Rugby Club? Was it? No? Talk about it being one of the first shows, isn't it?

It was kind of yeah, the shed The first first show was me Tom Ben and now plays in the Corn.

Tour as well.

It was me and Tom and Ben and we did the shad that we did acoustic set. We had like a loads of pals that came, so we only got the gig because we could sell the bar.

But they were like I made it.

Still a lot of them I'll still hang around with now, you know. They were like moshing. I mean, it was insane. But the energy surrounding the band there's always been. It's always been wild, Like it's always been like you know, when we played even that first gig, like it was moody and like there was like there was fights and there was just it was but it was there was.

Something going on, you know what I mean.

It provoked, but then there was also these great energy like it was like yeah it was you knew you couldn't not right about it or it couldn't take your eyes off it. You know, and that was the so you kind of knew we had something. We had we had something going on.

But that was things changed over the years in terms of like the perception of the band, you think, because originally it's kind of out of your control. When you're a new band and you arrive, people talking about the kind of media almost will put an eye kind of in a box. They'll go, oh, you're like a psychedelic rock or you're a young MC or whatever, and like because they've been coming along and people like, right, you go in this lane. You're kind of like you're a

Like in the early days.

It would get to me because I was tried to understand, you know, intelligent people come into this conclusion.

That that was so like it was off the mark by a long way.

But then I realized I had to be wasted energy because you have no control no matter what you.

Do, You're you're sort of you can't ever you.

Just the best thing is just to just to make what you make, and that's all you can really do. You can't control people's like perception of what you do and what you are, like, you know, you can't kind of go oh no, no, no, we did that because can Damasuzuki did that weird voice and that's why I did it. But they'll hear like, you know, Sean Ryder or whatever. You go, well, you know, it's great, love him,

But it's fine. You know, come to the party and aver a drink, you know, it's fine.

A lot of the bands that come up around the same time as you either don't exist anymore or have actually done a fair bit of kind of looking back, you know that classic thing, a bit like I will go and play like a debut.

Album, yeah, and things like that.

From the way that you've spoken, you still it still sounds like you're quite intent of pushing Kasabian forward and doing new things, and not really when you mentioned the twenty two years, yeah, I'm still not done particularly a lot of like looking back, it seems more.

Like, yeah, I don't why is that?

And I just think like it doesn't interest to me that I don't think.

Like there was a time and a place. I'm sure, but I feel that it's some way off yet. I like new things.

I like the next, you know what's the next. At the core of it all, it's just make like I just like making stuff, you know, videos, art.

I got my art thing, my daft apra thing, which was that was definitely the first seeds of me going oh this is nice. I've opened part of my brain that I didn't realize that I could get a really quick fix, like take Making a song can take a while and there's a pressure behind it because of what's come before. An expectation, whereas doing a canvas or doing a print, I can knock them out pretty quickly and I get that nice little hit.

It's like I'm a nice little hit. So that sort of sets me through.

I just think, yeah, I don't, I don't think it's it just doesn't. It's not very interesting. I sort of like, yeah, it's for me. It's like I like, I don't know. It's sort of a nice energy use people that expect to turn thing or to have a perception and continuing to put things out that they go, go.

Don't, what is it? It's like they don't. Really We're hard to pin down. It's hard.

I can't do it myself because my brain fucking works at the pace, but it.

Is hard to go.

We could come out with some of the next album that you know, you couldn't really can't really second guess it, you know.

What I mean?

Do you think you still be bounding on stage at Glastonbury with Fox's Tailing in ten years time for twenty years time?

Oh so, man, I think I just think you've got to I like to think that I would. The taste is still there and it's done in the correct manner, like if you sort of take Radiohead as the kind of perfect example, like Tom's York's voice for me, I mean I spoke about before, but it's sort of kind

People in front of us.

And what it's interesting about seeing Tommy Yorke on stage now he's you know, he's transformed into something completely new and different and he looks amazing and I'm totally in but he's got to be you know, fifty odd. But yeah, it's just it's like, no, that's great, Like he's just this is a new thing and it's it's amazing and I'm sure then he'll move on to the next thing. It's just getting it right. Go in with your personality, you know, trust yourself and don't fake anything, and it

Just finally before we finish off, when you've kind of got a bit of downtime, when you're at home in Leicestershire, you've got your studio, next way you live. What's the kind of like a bit of downtime, Like do you because you you've got family, Like, do you do your kids show interest in your music? Like is it got to stage now where they're an age where they're interested in learning about music? Is that part of your day to.

Day It's important? Like I've always had a studio at home. I never really liked working away anyway. But then obviously having a family, they're they're you know, Amy and the boys are just that's everything.

That is everything.

I've got a really nice, really beautiful home, like hat home life. Man, I've really I can put the suit when I get off to it. I can put the suitcase in the loft and it can stay there.

You know, some people can't.

But I've been blessed for whatever reason to have a personality where I can shut it off and focus and be present for my kids, you know, and having them coming after school into the studio and just away everything that's been done in the day, like you know, move all the simp, move all the settings and you know, and grab the mics.

It's just seeing and that they do we do tunes together and It's.

Like I'm really happy that, like, you know, I'm not one of those car crash musicians. That's just you know, off, he's conquers all day, just like walking around in a robe and just being a twat. And the kids are like, my dad's a fucking he's in a band, but he's a right. It's like I'm sort of I'm there for them, you know what I mean. It's it's important to be kind of like to perform that role like it's the it's the main, that's it.

It's a number one and then everything else, you know. I mean, I don't get me wrong.

When I'm making making stuff, I can lose myself in it, you know, and I'm you know, I'm often told like you in this you know, are you here? Mate? Because you just you're like literally glazed over, and I'm like, yeah, I'm just thinking this.

Yeah, so I can. I can't lose myself.

But I always try and be aware that it is nothing is that important, you know, and you make sure you don't miss the ship that is, you know.

Anyway, good night,