Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats.
It's late listeners, welcome to a brand new Midnight Chats, the third one of this fresh run of episodes, series seven, and I think it's going quite well so far. Cheers to Stuart for last week's podcast. That was Jason Williamson from Sleaford Mods chatting about eating spoons of mayonnaise out of the fridge. Really enjoyed that. And before that we had Yannis from Foles helping us kick the whole thing off. And we're here with you every Thursday at midnight for
the next eight weeks or so. Now. As I said in that series opener, we spent the time in between finishing the last series and starting this current one recording new chats. And the one you're listening to here was back in January on Blue Monday, the so called most depressing day of the year. I think that's just some bloney cooked up in a marketing boardroom somewhere to sell
a few gym memberships. But saying that, it was dark and it was very cold in our drafting office, and about twelve hours after this, London was covered in a deep blanket of snow, so it was peak winter Bleakness. So thank you to this Evening's guest Stella Donnelly for coming by to cheer us up with her infectious energy. We've wanted Stella on the podcast for a while. We featured her in our magazine Loud and Quiet a few years back when she first came to London from Australia
to play a show. That was after we'd heard Thrush Metal Heir first EP, and she's done so much in the time since. When we recorded this, she was on a whistle stop tour of Europe to talk about her debut album, Beware of the Dogs, which very conveniently is out now on Secretly Canadian and all of the reviews I've read have been deservedly full of praise. And this
conversation goes to a few disparate places. As a child, Stella spent a few years living in Swansea before moving to Australia, so we talk about her connections to Wales, her memories of that time, stereophonics and catatonia and all of that. We got onto hypnotherapy and how that's helped her fear of flying also stick with us because towards the end of this she tells a great story about something her dad did on her eighteenth birthday in front of all of her family and friends, and he sounds
like a total character. And before we get into this, just to clarify something if you don't know Stella's work that well, we talk about a song called Boys Will Be Boys, which is a track that Stella wrote about a friend's experience of rape. And that's a key bit of info to contextualize the stuff where we're talking about the significance and the power of that song. In fact, the album generally doesn't shy away from issues that could be perceived as heavier like that, and that's what makes
it essential. But it also mixes that alongside a wicked, sweary sense of humor that I think also comes out in this conversation. So the best thing you can do is go and give that album a listen, or even better still, go and see Stella live. Just finally, apologies to any Welsh listeners for my rubbish attempt at the accent. Definitely not my strong point. You'd have thought i'd been better at that considering that I lived there for a couple of years. Anyway, here we go. This is Stella
Dunnley on Midnight Chats episode sixty six. Before we start, I just wanted to check when you were dreaming about a successful career in music, is this how you imagine it would be. You'd be in a kind of pokey office in East London on a cold January day with basically one heater there. It's probably just about keeping us both alive. This is the height of glamour, isn't It's funny.
You said that I had. I had this exact dream. I think on the twenty third of November ninety ninety four. I think I was two years old and I had this dream that I was I was going to be here speaking to you, Greg. So thank you for making it happen. Yeah, thank you.
Welcome. I'm glad we could just make that dream.
Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Today's Today's Blue Monday, apparently, I think originated as an artificially created sales thing, a bit like you know, things like Black Fridays. Yes, it's apparently the most depressing day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere.
Right yeah. Yeah, in Australia, we're all partying down there. That's the happiest day ever. But you know up here.
Yeah, this is this is supposed to be the most miserable day of the year. But I think this podcast we're going to We're going to cheers some people up. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely, Well I just got some real Joni Mitchell blue kind of vibes and that actually made me feel more cozy than depressed.
Yeah.
Maybe that's the Australian in me though maybe this is also novel. Up here, it's so cold, You're far too cold and cute, so cute with your miserable cold, your scars, your frostbite.
So how long have you been in London?
Have you just arrived twenty four hours ago? But not from Australia, So I came from America, so I'm not too jet lagged. I'm kind of Yeah.
So back home at the moment in Australia, I don't know what it's like on the West Coast, but certainly parts of Australia are going through a record breaking heatweight.
Yeah totally. I mean it's the same in the West. Yeah. We're lucky in my hometown in Fremantle, and we're lucky to have the ocean right there, so we do get the breeze that comes in at around like four o'clock. We talk about the wind so much in Perth and in Freemantle and my partner noticed it because he he's from Melbourne and he noticed how much we talk about the breeze and the sea breeze and we call it the Freemantle Doctor actually, and it's like the doctor comes
in and the doctor's in. Oh, when's the doctor coming in today? Like because it's a big wind. Like, it's a big breeze, especially like in the winter time. Sometimes the doctor just stays in for three months, you know, and it's this whipping wind over the Indian Ocean and sometimes it brings in like some interesting smells from out on the boats, like the live exports ships and some
you know, terrible things. But yeah, it's a really so we've kind of got that breeze that comes in and you know that you should go to the beach in the morning because in the afternoon you're just gonna get sand everywhere. And you know, it's we're very much like in touch with that. So we're lucky to have the Freeo Doctor in summer because it kind of you know, cools the heat wave a little bit.
I'm going to ask you a little about Fremantle in a bit. And also you've been writing songs and performing around like the Perth area for a number of years. But in terms of the people that have maybe heard your name but don't necessarily know your story that well, you do have British connections, Welsh connections in particular. Tell me and those people are listening a little bit about that.
Well, Hello Stella from the Valleys, now right, how you doing all right?
It's pretty good. Yeah, it's got a little bit of ness there.
Yeah, yeah, it's a nest kneel. Are you doing all right?
Yeah?
So I my mum is Welsh and we my dad's Aussie and we moved up to Wales from Australia when I was about five and we went to a Welsh speaking school, so shout out to bed Bach speak a little bit of Welsh. And it comes back whenever I come home, you know, it comes back whenever I come back, you know, and then it goes way again whenever I'm back in Australia. But and yeah, I lived here for I think about three years, four years, not very long,
and then moved back to Australia. But that time in my life I think you're such a sponge at that age, you know, till about ten years old, you're such a sponge. So that part of my life is so vivid and it's such a I consider it such a big part of my identity. And I guess the Welsh culture is so strong and proud and you know full, and in Australia, as a white Australian, you know, we don't really have that.
We've got beautiful culture and we've got beautiful things, but there's nothing really historical and deeply entrenched like the Welsh. You know, the Welsh language and songs and poetry and all of those things, so food, everything. So having that part of my childhood was a really beautiful and I feel really lucky. It was a beautiful thing and I feel really lucky to have had that.
What kind of strong memories from that period? Is it the beautiful kind of sandy beaches of South Wales? Was it? The definitely not?
I got some other and I speech memories unfortunately, yeah, yeah, yeah, well no, yeah, I mean the beaches were nice, but it was mostly this, you know, for me, it was I'd come from Australia, so the beaches were like, you know, okay, but you know, sorry, no offense. But and then but it was really kind of I guess it was my mum's family. You know, my aunties are both actors and they're both kind of really really interesting and intelligent and
larger than life characters. So and my grandmother, my mum gee is as well. So having them around all the time, it was always there was always something crazy happening. You know, we're always doing an adventure and my Auntie lives in this crazy, beautiful old Georgian house in Sandela, and it's you know, I just have these crazy memories of making like a pink blamonde and going to the park, you know, just silly things that but you know, and singing I think was the big one. You know. We'd go to
Chapel every Sunday and they'd always be singing. And I think that that's one thing I've really noticed is that
the Welsh aren't embarrassed about that. You know. I played in Cardiff Last and my family, friends and family all came down to the show at Club Bio Bach and they I had cousins that came and friends and husbands that that you know, our builders and you know kind of very manly masculine men and they were all came up into the green room and just started singing, and even the men and even the young boys, everyone is just singing the songs and no one there's no kind
of ego or embarrassment about it. It's just yeah. And I think that part of my childhood really kind of shaped me to really gravitate towards the music and the arts and those things.
So that you already mentioned the Welsh are incredibly proud at their nation. Yes, and they tend to kind of very much like where that on their sleep, so to speak. Is your mum quite a sort of proud Welsh?
She is? Yeah, I mean she's quite. She's a bit more. Mum's really like a very compassionate person and she really kind of They say that when you're very you have high empathy, you tend to kind of take on the accent of the country that you're in, and she really did that. When she moved to Australia, she was really accepted into that Australian lifestyle and she traveled through India for a long time. So she's she's got that Welsh like passion. But it definitely I notice it come back.
Whenever she goes home and comes back, her accent is so strong, and she starts cooking on cowl and all these different foods again. And I can tell she gets cabin fever when she doesn't get to go back for a while. You know, I can tell that she gets this kind of feeling. There's there's a Welsh word for it called hero to eith or here at eight I think here at eight, and there's no English translation, but it's this. It's essentially like a longing for home, a
longing for the motherland. And yeah, I can tell that she gets that sometimes.
So, yeah, your mum sounds a lot more subtle than my mum.
She's very subtle.
Yeah, yeah, So my mum's part Welsh, but she's she's got older. She's really sort of gravitated towards her Welsh breeze. And she likes to hang a flag out of the window of our house down the street when Wales are playing in the rugby.
Amazing, that's a brave thing to do.
She likes to shave in England, likes to terrorize the English neighbors.
Good on her.
I think the Welsh loved to do that though, they kind of do like, Oh, they loved the I don't like the word, but they do like the banter oh with the English.
Particularly, Oh, the English deserve it. You know, it's no offense, but yes, actually offense intended. Yeah, you know the Welsh. If the Welsh could have a laugh with the English about it, then that's pretty cool.
You know. The Welsh are also really not only proud of their their nationality and their language and things like that, but obviously music. So when I lived in Wales, it was kind of a given. And I hope this doesn't come across as a cliche, but particularly the Welsh people that I lived with were all genuinely big fans of Stereophonics, Yes, oh my God, Catatonia and Manic Street Preachers, and if those bands came to town, they would turn out and go and see that.
Absolutely. My parents took me on my eighteenth birthday to see Stereophonics play in Fremantle. They happened to play in Fremantle on my eighteenth birthday that my parents didn't know that I'd gone out the night before at like midnight when I turned eighteen, so I was a little bit hungover and apparently I fell asleep in the car on the way home, but we had the best time. And yeah, Stereophonics and Catatonia two that have just been so part
of my life for so long. You know, all the drives in Wales when I was young would have the cassette of Stereophonics or Catatorny. My dad was. My dad really that when he came to Wales. Dad is really into all the Welsh music. Even though he's Australian, he kind of, you know, gravitated towards all of those lyrics and yeah, he's yeah, he really influenced.
That Chris Matthews, who was the singer of Castonia. She's got an amazing show on BBC six Music. I don't know if you ever got a chance.
I stream it Australia. Yes, I can't get enough. I've picked up so many amazing bands from her, and old music as well, and all sorts of music. She's just got such a good taste and I love her conversation and her voice. It's so calming to listen to on a Sunday. Yeah, she's really great. She sounds twelve years old, yeah, exactly, such a sweet voice.
Is it true that when living in Wales. You did have a part on a Welsh soap opera radio program.
Is that right?
Very specific, isn't it? Well soap opera radio program only in the north.
Yeah.
I my auntie was on this show. So there's there's a well show called Pablo Cum which is People of the Valley. Yeah, so it's our it's essentially our neighbors and my auntie. They hadn't my aunties. Both of them have been in that for a long were in that for a long time. Not anymore, but my auntie Janne was Gloria in that show, and that was she was quite you know, quite well known around the time that
she was that character. But she there was this side show called Eileen, which was one of the characters from Paula Cum. They made a radio soap opera about her, about that character. So it's kind of like a almost like a fan fiction, I guess of Pablo coma spin off exactly. So I got to play Eileen's daughter, Sean Ed. I'd only been speaking Welsh about two hours and they
got me up and did this this radio show. The most that I remember is driving up to Bangor from Swansea every second Friday, I'd get to leave school early and Dad and I would drive up to Bangor and we listened to Yes Stereophonics and Catatonia and the U two early U two as well. We had that cassette and I would just remember the food mostly from that studio. I remember them giving me cookies and yeah, lollies and stuff like that. I don't remember much about the script.
Well, your Auntie must have been like almost Welsh ruelty, because was like if people haven't come across it. You mentioned neighbors, it's like EastEnders. Yeah.
Absolutely, yeah, and won a Bafta not too long ago, actually a Welsh bafter.
Yeah.
For her, she was in a Gwade Kachev was the show homework in English. She's really paved the way for many many Welsh actors. She's wonderful. Yeah, she's in that show. Yeah, I'm so lucky. My mom's actually the rebel of the three sisters. Mum became a nurse. She kind of she was the black sheep of the family and became a nurse. And her two sisters actors and yeah, yeah, yeah, shout out to an if.
You're listening, that sounds like that was quite a sort of strong memories from that period of time when you went back to Fremantle or were you in Fremantle.
Yeah, Fremantle is where I live now, so I moved down I'm a I'm a late comer to Fremantle. I've kind of I claim it as my own now, but I've only been there for about four or five years. I moved down there, you know, independently of my family. But my family live in a suburb up in the north of Perth, so it's kind of just a regular suburbia, kind of fishing town kind of Okay, is that what it's.
Sort of known for?
Is it?
It's a it's Fremantle kind of like a satellite town to perfect Yeah, you.
Can see Freemantle is the port. So Fremantle is our port, and it's it's got it's I guess it's maybe the brighton of of but of but it's not as fancy and it's it's we're really lucky in Freemantle to have I guess people that's where the first place if you go to West in Australia by boat, which many people did back in the day, was the only way to get to the country. You know, that's where you land is in Freemantle. That's where you dock is in Freemantle.
So people from all sorts of all countries came and emigrated. And during the war a huge Italian population came by boat to Australia and they got off in Fremantle, never left and opened up restaurants. So we have this beautiful Italian architecture and food and culture and there's just this
real hub of all sorts of foods. And then we had a huge Vietnamese population and then Chinese population, so all these kind of great food places are in Fremantle, and there's all this kind of heritage architecture from when the first boats came, and it's a very kind of cultural Meccha.
Was it those factors that drew you to there rather than moving into the city.
And yeah, yeah, And all the really good music, yes, I think so. And all the really good music venues are in Fremantle. Got a place called Mojo's which is where all of us cut our teeth. That's where Tam and Parlor cut their teeth. It's where we all kind of play and I still play there, you know, And but you know, you could go there and do an open mic night on a Monday, and then you know, get a show and then yeah, it's just that, it's just it's got music every night of the week and
it's such a great venue. So yeah, So.
With that scene, then kind of paint a picture for me. You're in your teens when you first started performing and writing music. Did you feel like, did you have any nerves going about playing your first shows in Fremantle or wherever you were when you're playing your first shows. Just talk to me a little bit about your sort of beginnings and getting out there and playing music.
Yeah, well, I started out playing other people's songs. Really when I was seventeen eighteen, I was playing covers at a market, like to make a bit of extra cash, like when I was fifteen in school. You know, Mum would do her grocery shopping and I would sing on the corner in the food market and make about twenty bucks. And then eventually as someone walked past who happened to book cover artists in restaurants, so he was like, I can make you some money, and I was like, okay, Oh,
you'll have to talk to my dad, but okay. And then my first of a show was at a place called the Wanneroo Tavern, which is where you win a prize if you eat like this giant rump of steak. Like it's that kind of I hope that paints the picture for you. Yeah, exactly, hope that paints the picture. It's a real kind of like and there's like a tab which is like a sports bet kind of area, like you know, behind where you can smoke. And yeah, I would play in the corner for three and a
half hours doing covers while people eat their dinner. But I managed to and my friends would come down because we're all young. We're seventeen still, so my dad and mum would have to come because I was underage, so they'd bring my friends. They'd all go for dinner and you know, take photos. And that was you know, they were my first gigs. And then eventually I started playing in other people's bands, you know, and working on their original projects. And I did that for a long time.
I was There was one point when I was working in a cafe and working in a bar and playing in six bands, all different genres, all different instruments, all different things. But it was so much fun. I had a gig every night, Like sometimes I had to rush from one to the other and it was so much fun.
So that was really have any time for yourself.
Well not really, and I guess at the time it was a really good distraction. I think I'd been put pressuring myself for so long to do my own EP, do my own thing, you know, put out your songs, and I wasn't ready. I clearly wasn't ready because I procrastinated for five or six years. You know, I was twenty five when the EP came out, So I procrastinated
doing other people's stuff for so long. But I'm so glad I did that because it gave me so much perspective on other people's music and how to treat a band well, and how to articulate yourself and you know, how to conduct yourself. I'd curate shows, I'd put on shows, I'd book other artists and stuff like that. So having those experiences under my belt has given me so much kind of you know insight.
What was the first song that you wrote that you considered your own song that you were then you were like, okay, now I'm ready, I'm ready to share this song as myself. Yeah.
It was mechanical Ball, it was Yeah, it was Mechanical Ball. Well, I put out the EP and then I yeah, I don't even know. I think, I just yeah, I don't know why, hang on, I'm just trying to think of the order events. Because the EP came out on cassette tape. It was like thirty cassette tapes and that was it. And then I would put Mechanical Ball on like all
the social stuff like on you know, on SoundCloud. I think, yeah it SoundCloud, yeah, and people were listening to it on that and then eventually the EP came out and everything went all things go yeah, yeah.
And what has the experience been like of the last eighteen months, because, like you say that, the EP came out Thrush Metal and a lot of opportunities have come your way since. You know, you've made numerous trips to Europe, You've been in States, You've obviously toured Australia fairly kind of heavily. Now does that long haul flight from Australia to the Europe UK get any easier the more you do it?
No, There's there's a song on the album, the Cold Lunch, and it's about kind of that homesickness that you get before you leave. I tend to really embrace once I'm away, once I've got landed and I'm on that on the on the floor, on the ground, I'm there, I'm ready, I'm present, and I'm excited and I love it and I really kind of flourish in that time. But that week leading up to leaving is really tough for me. I struggle to kind of because when you're at home,
you're vulnerable. I think, you know, you allow yourself to be really comfortable around the people you love, and they're your safety nets. You're around them, you let go, and then all of a sudden you have to kind of go, oh, I've got to put up these walls again to survive. You know, when you go on to a solo, you've got to kind of like put up these protections for yourself just to get through it. Not that it's difficult, but you know, when you travel a new place every day,
it can get pretty exhausting mentally. So that week leading up to it is really tough. And I'm a really bad flyer, so that I've got a really bad fear of flying, and you know, I just haven't let it
stop me. And the only thing change that I've made is that I've just like kind of I've decided to just spend a little bit of extra money to fly on airlines that I feel safer on now, you know, And I think that that's the only change that I've made it and it has improved things, you know, knowing that I don't have to catch Ryan airflight or something
like that. You know, it just makes me feel just when you have to do it so much and you have to do you know, you know, so many flights in a year or whatever, Knowing that you're at least on like trusted airlines is kind of a beneficial thing.
Do you find yourself going through any sort of helpful rituals or anything then before you fly, just to kind of keep your nerves calm or anything that you I mean, for example, when you're traveling from to presumer you grab a flight from Perth to like London or whatever.
Well Perth, Yeah, it goes Perth to Dubai to London. So it ends up being about twenty one hours.
Yeah, so that's like a day, Yeah, just disappears.
Yes, yeah.
So yeah, how do you are there any little things that you can do to just prepare yourself for that, because it must be weird. When you look at your phone calendar, that day is just basically right. I'm just gonna be up in the sky.
Totally, totally. I mean, I have an amazing sight. Who did this like great hypnot It's a bit complex, but she she kind of she did this great hypnotherapy thing on me, and it sounds crazy, but it's it really worked. And she used these words essentially, it's like a guided meditation. And she had me lay down. I shouldn't be telling
you all this, but whatever. She had me lay down, and she would say trigger words like airport running, late, turbulence, you know, seat belts, air conditioning, all these things that trigger my fear I guess of flying, you know, all these kind of weird takeoff, landing, all these words that I guess spark that little fear of thing in my brain. All the while she's giving me a guided meditation of like swimming in the ocean. So she's telling me this
story about me swimming in the ocean. She's like, imagine that, you know, diving into the water, blah blah blah, and then she'll just drop those words into the guided meditation. So for and youve got to you've got to kind of go back and do You've got to kind of go back every kind of few months to kind of get a top up of it. I guess I'm not
running around like a chicken or anything. But and for a while there, I would get this image when whenever someone said airport or anything to me, without realizing it, I would have this flash in my brain and it would be this folk like this little picture of a wave would disappear or something like that. It's it's amazing. Honestly, I'd never thought I would be. I didn't. I always thought that my brain would be too conscious to be hypnotized, do you know what I mean. But she really she
managed to get me. And yeah, for a while there, she really managed to kind of get into my head and make me think about Yeah, she just like put this subconscious relaxation thing on me, and that really helped. So if ever, if anyone out there has got a bad fear of flying or a bad fear of anything, check out hypnotherapy like a really good psychologist, you know. Yeah. Tip for the tip for the for the musicians out there scared of flying. Yeah, so many are so many musicians are.
Yeah, I think we had Courtney Barnett came on the podcast a year almost a year ago to the day, sat where you're sat right now, and she was just talking about just the toll of moving around to that extent particularly, I mean you pretty much you know your base, your home is almost it couldn't really be further from where we are right now.
The city in the world, Perth is, you know, it's it's geographically the most isolated metropolitan city in the world.
So yeah, exactly, so you like pop over here for you must kind of presumably in London for a few days a week or something before you have to go back, and so your body's only just getting used to being here to then swop back there. Yeah.
I came to London for two days last year and that I didn't get time to be jet lagged. Yeah, it was crazy. But yeah, someone in Courtney Barnett's band said something once and I loved it. I loved it. They were like, your resource on tour. It may even be Courtney, your resource on tour. When you're touring, what you feed on is food and claps, just like you know that that's the thing that feeds you and keeps you going, Like do we get the claps. Yes, did we get the food?
Yes?
All right? Next next, Like, that's that's your economy essentially, when you're exactly food and claps, that sounds really bleak. You know, obviously there are some absolute you know, I don't want to sound like I'm complaining at all because it's just such a blah blah blah. You know, you know that I'm grateful for all of this.
Yeah, but also, yeah, it is, it's not it's certainly not the most kind of physically or mentally easiest thing to cope with by making these like regularly making long journeys.
And yeah, it's definitely an interesting thing because it's not really a natural state of being really humans. The closest thing you get is nomads, but they had their families with them when they moved around, you know, to hit the mic, sorry, but yeah, it's not a very normal state of being. I'm actually I'm friends with Tyler Wright, who's a pro surfer. She won the WSL a few year is in a row. She's incredible. But she came
on tour with us for a little while. She's dating a friend of mine, and she was like, I don't know how you do this, and she travels the world surfing, you know what I mean. She does exactly what we do. But in terms of like the late nights, she's like, I'd be in bed by now and I'd be awake with like a green smoothie at six am, and I'd be hitting the surf. You know, we're kind of like late night, get up early, get on a plane. You know.
It's like a very different It's not exactly a health promoting healthy living.
I tried to, but yeah, I think it's been important to hear artists also talking in those terms a little bit more the last few years, just you know, the conversation about sort of mental health in music, and yeah, since we've come to the forefront a little bit more in terms of just making people just a touch more aware, it is like, it's ultimately it's your job, it's the area you're working, and it's a fairly taxing kind of you already mentioned it's slightly it's unlike a lot of
any other type of work. So it's been good to hear people talk about that and the strains it can put.
On people, I think, yeah, and to let people know that it's okay to feel that way. As well, and that you know, you don't have to drink. You don't have to because there's so alcohol industry is so entrenched in the music industry and all of those things, and it doesn't have to be like that. You don't have to fit that bill to make it as a musician. In fact, you probably shouldn't if you want to survive.
Yeah, if you come up against those conventions of being like, turn up a gig and they're like, oh, there's.
Your No, I've always been really sensitive to alcohol. I'm sensitive to everything. I can't even drink coffee without bouncing off the walls. I come pre caffeinated, so I'm really sensitive to everything, which is good because my body tells me when something's not good for it. But also like, it'd be nice to be able to bloody enjoy a glass of wine over dinner and not, you know, be
pissed under the table yelling abuse. No, I'm kidding, but you know, I have to kind of be I have to be really careful, and I get sick as soon as if I have more than three or four drinks or whatever, I my tonsil's flare up and my immunity goes out. The wind so I don't drink on tour. I drink when I'm home playing board games, you know, in that vulnerable state. Christmas Day exactly, seven am, Yeah, exactly. But yeah, no, I don't. I don't conform to that.
No, So we talked a little bit about what you some of the stuff you've been able to do the last eighteen months. Also had the opportunity to go on tour with some great artists and thinking of recently people like Natalie Prass, what have you learned from the experience of going on tour with artists like that.
Well, Natalie's just the most perfect example you could have chosen, because I learned so much from her touring with her. She's I hold her to such high regard as a musician, for one, and as as a person. She we both kind of had similar starts in that she played in another band for a long time, and you know, like myself, so we've both kind of been a company a companyist, accompanists, oh my god, for other people. But yeah, she she conducts herself in such a professional way and is so
kind and caring. And I just watched the way because when I went on tour with her, I was about to do my first Australian tour with the band, So I watched very carefully at how she there were. You know, on a tour, you get a lot of crisis situations happen, you know, guitars break, things happen, you know, shit happens on tour a lot. And I just watched the way that she conducted herself during those crises and during those things, and the way that she stepped back and allowed everyone
to do their jobs. And I took that on board a lot when I went on tour and I will hopefully continue to do that. I just really liked the way that she didn't feel the need to kind of be on top of everything, because that's a lot of pressure.
Yeah, is there a kind of tendency to feel that you need to do that is particularly when you're starting out where you're like I kind of need to know every detailing. Yeah, like you take part in the panic of if a flight is canceled. There are people around the over to help.
You capable of you know, absolutely absolutely, so she's amazing and just watching her on stage, just her voice and everything like that. But even getting to do like I've got to do a lot of the same festivals with the same sorry, a lot of festivals with the same artists as well. So I've become good friends with Lucy Dakas and Snail Mail, Lindsay and Hailey Hendrix is another one that we've We've played a lot of the same
festivals over here. And yeah, there's there's a bunch of bands that I have so much respect for and I learned so much from, Like Lucy Dacus. I get all my book recommendations from her and you know, like everything she's just as she's an encyclopedia.
This sort of skips ahead a little bit, but obviously people what's been great or certainly a trend the last I don't know, a couple of years, maybe when you've seen artists like Lucy Dakas and obviously Phoebe Bridges and
they had projects like Boy Genius Genius. Yeah, you've obviously played in bands in the past, Like I mean, you're in the cusp of releasing your debuts as a said of artist, But were you in the future do you think you'll invite the idea of being flexible and you know, creating new bands or joining other bands briefly because it's a thing you've done in the past, that's an idea that you like, Oh, definitely.
I mean I went on tour with methyl ethyl on guitar for them because their poor Hamish cut his hand open like a week before the tour of the festivals. So yeah, I had to learn their songs in about ten days and make it happen. And if I, you know, the more opportunities I get to do things like that,
the better, you know. That's how I get better at my instruments, you know, and also how you become kind of empathetic and aware of other people's projects and other people's visions and not letting your you know, not thinking that my ideas are the be all end all of music ever, you know, Beethoven, you know, like I just yeah, So it's a really good way to kind of like, it's really good for the ego to help other people or just be part of someone else's project and sit
back and just do your part and that's it and you don't have to add any fluff, just play the part and shut up, you know. And if I get to do that, that'd be great. But also I'd love to do some co writing and projects with other people and help people on their projects. Yeah, for sure, It's definitely something I'm open to. But the album's kind of taking up the whole brain right now. Yeah, I've been very selfish.
Yeah, we need to talk about that because I haven't even mentioned it yet and we're over half an hour, so be Where the Dogs is the debut album before I'm going to get into some of the standout tracks on that. I think a characteristic that people have often pointed towards when they've talked about your music so far, it is just how honest it is and how funny it is, but also tackle some pretty serious issues, and as that side of you always come out in in the songs that you've written.
Yeah, I mean it's essentially just a dramatic version of me and how I have conversations with people and myself and how I deal with things. You know, I talk about it, I cry about it, then I laugh about it. You know. That's kind of the only way I know how to process. Yes, So yeah, it was only ever going to be honest for me, because yeah, I don't think I think I would fatigue a lot quicker if I was touring songs that I didn't really resonate with
or that I didn't feel were actually me. If I had to kind of put on a character every night, I think that I think I'd burn out a lot quicker, you know, So yeah, I think yeah, I've never really thought about it. It's always just that's just been how I write and how I process things.
Before I took about or ask about a couple of the songs on there that I particularly love. Boys Will Be Boys is a track that people might may have heard, is one of the first things that you released. What has it been like taking performing that song as you have the last few years, as you've been like touring around and yeah, playing that in front of audiences, but obviously you presume having conversations with with fans and people that have attended shows and festivals and things like that.
So has that opened out? Has there been positive effects to being so direct and honest about what ultimately is a very kind of harrowing experience that a friend went So have you felt a positive energy come from writing like that?
Definitely? And I feel like if people hear that song and that's my first you know, if that's the first people hear of me, they know what they're getting. And I'm really glad that I did that because my audience
are so beautiful. The people that come and buy tickets to my gigs are such progressive and understanding people or people that are willing to learn and stuff like that, And I'm really glad that I did that because it gave me that opportunity to continue to speak out if I needed to, which I have done in a few of the songs on the album. But I you know, I write about other things too, you know, but yeah, that song really has put me in situations I never
thought i'd be. And I went on a panel with Henry Rowlands at Splendor in the Grass festival back home and we got into a bit of an argument. It was great. I really like Henry. He said something a bit silly, like I don't think he meant it in that way, but he said something like, you know, it's up to the women to educate the men these things, blah blah blah, and I was like, hey, Henry, wait a second, Like he was straight away like, you know, it was like cool, Yeah, he retreated and understood it.
I really like Henry Rowlands. He was really great. But you know that that song has really kind of put me in situations where I'm like, I don't think I should be here. I don't know, I don't think I'm smart enough for this, you know, and I don't know. Yeah, I'm kind of just bluffing. Really, I think everyone is. But yeah, I wrote that song two years before the
Me Too movement. So never in my wildest dreams did I think that that song would kind of come out at the same time, or come out a week before it happened. Yeah, a week two days before Harvey Weinstein was outed. I put that song out. It's the weirdest kind of like you know, serendipity ever. I don't know if it's good or bad, but that's, you know, just what happened. And yeah, so that that song and I'm to be able to reach people with that message. It
has been so beautiful. Yeah, and I've had such wonderful feedback. I've had some absolutely fucking shit house feedback from people, but mostly it's been.
Lovely people online online.
Yeah always yeah, yeah, yeah, it's always just like death threats and stuff, just just casual death threats. But yeah, it's just like, you know, it's just people hiding in their mother's basement with KFC grease on their fingers, kind of, you know, getting upset that I'm not talking about men all the time.
You know, Yeah, it is easy to kind of brush that stuff off as you make it sound there or is it or is it actually quite.
When when it first started, when I when the when the trolling happened for the first time, I really I had a bit of a day. I really I was pretty distraught and yeah, spoke to you know, my best friend sent me chocolate. You know, it was one of those days kind of and I, yeah, that was tough. But then it I processed it and dealt with it, and now I find ways to kind of talk about it.
And I think the main thing for me was with the album not letting that stop me in what I was going to say, and in fact, it kind of fueled me.
Say, was it a sign that you're actually doing something ortant than necessary and right?
Totally? And also it also made me realize how lucky I am because I'm a white girl, so I fit into a pretty common stereotype and for me to be getting trolled it's pretty crazy. But I think about friends of mine who are women of color, non binary people, trans people who speak out and the shit that they cop is just like tenfold to what I have received. And you know, I think about that all the time, and I think, if I'm using my privilege to do something,
then yeah, I'm doing something right. Yeah, it fuels it.
I was going to say, does it feel like when you because you're gaining a platform. You haven't obviously a platform already, but it feels like when it's only growing? So does it feel important to use your platform to say things that are personally important to you? And I hope hopefully have a kind of wider positive repercussions.
Absolutely, I've always even before I had any sort of before anyone knew who I was, I would put things on Facebook and Instagram, you know what I mean. It's a kind of I've always been like that, and I just never let it stop when things went a bit crazy and my parents were like, oh my god, just like what are you doing? But then they fully jumped on board and realized. And I remember talking to them and because Mum called and was like, you know, be careful,
you know, be careful. Now that you've got this, you should be grateful and just and I'm like, Mum, this is this is actually more reason for me to continue. And I think, you know, as soon as I stop using that platform to make a change, I should get off the platform and give it to someone else. You know. That's how I feel. I feel like there's there is a long list of names who deserve that platform and
are waiting for it. So I'm going to continue to while I'm on it, while I'm on the podium, while I've got the mic, I'm going to continue to kind of stir shit up a little bit.
Yeah, away from Boys will be Boys. You already mentioned it. There's a kind of huge variety of kind of themes on the album. It's a really funny record. It's a really sweary record.
Yeah, a sixteen times in Seasons Greetings. Yeah, I know that because we did the radio edit version and there were sixteen pauses.
And actually, so I was going to say, like Season Screens is my favorite song, thank you, and it's well, I mean, I'll let you explain. It's it's kind of it's kind of a story of being surrounded by family and maybe their expectations of what or family and friends maybe yeah, about kind of what they think that you should be doing, and you're maybe like kind of like you're stepping too often outside of the box up to you kind of thing.
Yeah, totally, totally.
Yeah, And it ends with this sort of yeah, like a kind of sweary outro, which which I personally thought was pretty funny.
Thank you, thank you. We're going to replace all the fucks with like dog barks, but it became too busy, so we just did did the mutes. Yeah, that song,
you've pretty much yeah, captured it in a nutshell. It's like capturing that Australian family Christmas, any family Christmas really, but I do a little like hat tip to Paul Kelly who's got a song called how to Make Ravy and it's about Christmas and it's I just it's not it's always very Everything I write is based on something, but it's hypothetical in a broader sense, and you know the details of it are relatively hypothetical and yeah and yeah, So just trying to capture that the essence of the
Australian I remember trying to like through the window when Tylia and Jenny Tarlie is my drummer and Jenny Jenny's my bass player. We recorded it to tape machine, so it was a very kind of like scary process because tape's expensive and you know, they wanted to get it right pretty soon. There was no editing or anything like that. So I remember going I remember having going through the
microphone to Tarlie, who had her headphones on. She was drumming, and I say, Okay, Tylia, pretend that you've just walked into family Christmas and you know, someone's just dropped like a plate of sausage rolls on the floor, and because someone's made like a homophobic comment across the table to your cousin who hasn't come out yet, and you know, like imagine that. And she played and we got the
hate like straight away. She got it. It just like was so perfect, and her and Jen just like locked in together and we had the track like four takes in.
It was you must have some telepathy if you're kind of go through a description of that and I know exactly what you mean. I got it. I got this.
It. It was so fun getting to paint the pictures of each songs, especially the funny ones. I was like, okay, Natalia, I want you to imagine that you're walking, you know, just like every different song I had a different like scenario and that really helped her kind of get into.
The zone and it was fun the sort of humour side of it, so that your sense of humor really comes out on the album. Are you a fan of like comedy? Like what do you like stand up comedy or like TV comedy? Because it does feel like there's almost like one Niners on there. It's kind of yeah, there's like punchlines and kind of and like you say, it's it's quite it's sort of like profanities for fanity's sake because it's funny and stuff like that. So that does that come into it anywhere along the line?
I mean my dad when we moved to Wales. My dad couldn't get a job as a school teacher over here because the Welsh education system was really different to the Australian one for some reason. So he would be a stay at home dad. Well mum would go out and work as a nurse, and then at night he would go and do comedy clubs to make money. So Dad played guitar and wrote songs about Princess Diana and all sorts of bullshit that I probably don't want to talk about now. Because it was ninety ninety eight and
it's probably fucking super offensive anyway. Think he's out a few chairs thrown at him in his time. So yeah, dad did that for a while. And I guess Dad would sing the songs and we'd make up songs together all through my childhood, and he would he wrote I remember my eighteenth birthday, my dad changed the song by
Jason Moraz, you know I'm Yours by Jason Moraz. Dad changed that the words that to up yours and essentially told all my school friends, like about like the only time you get off the computer is when you do a pooh and like all these really embarrassing things. Essentially he told it in the form of song and the friends that still remind me of that to this day. And like, remember when your dad sung that song?
So what like on your eighteenth birth they were a party, it.
Was my birth party.
Yeah, we're friends.
Are that your dad got up and sung that song sung Jason's got everyone to sing along and like the ap yours was like the main Aupius and yeah, it was fucked.
I understand your dad.
He's great classic, He's a classic, and he does it for everyone's birthdays, like if it's someone's you know, if it's just like my auntie Mary. It was her fiftieth and he did a beautiful song for her and it was it was heartfelt. But then he'd add these fucking really hectic kind of you know one liners in that everyone would laugh at and it's brilliant. It's it's just brilliant.
So yeah, sounds like a business opportunity. We should get your dad to like, you know, we could feed feed your dad like various anecdotes about people, and he could turn it into a song and it could be like, hey, you got your birthday birthday song from his work exactly.
I know he does it for all the staff from this if it's the staff's member's birthday, he'll get in and write a song. He'll just change the words to a song and write like that. So he's a classic my dad. Oh my god, do.
You think that does it come? I mean, right at the start of the podcast, we talked about your mum and they kind of Welsh compassion and kind of is it do you think In a weird way, what we've ended up talking about is like the two sides, two big characteristics of your music, the sort of compassion.
Of you know, mum's really gentle and yeah, and then.
Your dad's kind of hang on and we just got to the root of it.
Crazy we have essentially, yeah, we said we have. We've reached the we've hit the gold mine. Yeah, dad, Dad is a dad. I'm mostly like my dad in characteristics, Like it's very kind of outspoken and commands a room in the way that like isn't always appropriate. And just like you knows he's great. He knows I love him. He's the best. Yeah, And my friends love him. They
all gravitate towards him. And he's had to get up and do a couple of speeches at you know, like local Perth Award nights or whatever, and he's got up and sworn his ass off on stage and everyone, you know, everyone likes my dad more than they like me, to be honest. So yeah, so that's where that kind of comedy, I guess comes from. But also I am interstand. I love James Acaster. I think he's wonderful and he's a genius. And he manages to do comedy without pulling the pits
out of any minorities, you know what I mean. He manages to just he's so intelligent and I've got so much respect for.
Him to see him. He performs in London, so you're going to have to time it with tours.
Yeah, that moment when he played that tiny whatever it was, was like a tiny, little, tiny miniature keyboard and he tried to play old Langxion on it. It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life. I had tears rolling down my face. He's the best.
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