Ep 50: Novelist

Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats.

Evening listeners don't say we don't come at you with a variety of voices. On our podcast series Last time Out. On Midnight Chats, Stewart was talking to the legendary Johnny Mark, a man who's released over a dozen albums in the thirty five years that he's been making music. My guest tonight, Kojo Cancum, otherwise known as Novelist, has made just one and if you're comparing their two experiences, they're not just

It's nice to be here.

We're here after an uncharacteristically warm Bank holiday in London. Yeah, what did you get up to? Were busy this weekend?

Yeah? This weekend?

I mean I was in Mortar, Oh nice on the weekend. More on a Friday, come back on the Saturday. No, actually no, I was a more on a Saturday, come back on the Sunday, And on Sunday I went to church yesterday kind of just children, my boy and Shortitch the easy one.

With that part of the Animac festival year he went out for that. How was that experience?

It was lovely, man like. It was the first time me Pa and some of those songs from the album in a festival environment kind of call to test around them and see how people reacted, and it was smashing.

Did you get any times to get an impression of Malta as a place.

I didn't really have long there, but when I was traveling to the festival and to the hotel et cetera, was looking around and this place looks quite different to the rest of everywhere else, you know what I mean.

I've not been that far.

So sometimes on this podcast we don't get around to chatting about the artists that we're speaking to their new music. But actually, for this one, I want to start right there. We start with a novelist, Guy, which is your debut album, which you brought out just a few weeks ago. How have you felt about the reception to that album.

It's been perfect, Yeah, it's been absolutely perfect.

It's gone kind of exactly as you had it in your in your imagination.

Yeah, man, because my fans they're very about me.

Do you know what I'm saying. I don't.

I don't really feel like I have a pop fan base. I have a fan base that really know about my music. And I've also found that a lot of different groups of people who are never would expect to like, pay interest to my music. They're saying, yeah, novelist, this is great, getting me through the day, getting me through my unicorse, And that's the kind of stuff that I like, the small things, you know what I mean.

So it's been really good.

So you've had people sharing their first time listen to the album, their personal experience is telling you their favorite track.

Yeah, it's all been great, man, Okay, yeah, all of it.

Where's the best one? As anybody said, I work in Tesco and I've heard it like you know, or it's my soundtrack to my drive to college or things like that. What kind of personal stories of people.

My favorite one?

Obviously I'm youth myself, so I mean, I'm twenty one now, so I'm kind of edging. But someone said it got them through their dissertation, and I thought, yeah, that's cool, man, because if my music's actually helping you get through something, that's going to take you to the next stage in your life.

That's quite impactful.

Yeah, I mean I've had a few wild ones, yeah, but that's the simpler ones are my favorite ones, you know what I mean.

Yeah. The album starts as the track called Start. Yeah, it sounds the same, doesn't it.

Yeah.

When I listened to the record for the first time, it's really the whole thing feels very motivational, very positive, very honest. Yeah, and that track almost encapsulates that, right. Yeah, tell us a little bit about why you wanted to start the album with that song and how that almost acts as a theme for the album.

Yeah.

Yeah, that was Actually it's funny because when I was making that song, yeah, I just I wasn't in the best place of my life. But it's like that, I feel like God downloaded it to me. That's a literal downloading.

It appeared this message.

Yeah, so it's like it just came through me, man.

And when I was just making it, it just felt really good to make a beat that sounded like that, and then the lyrics are just coming incrementally, just coming out boom boom, thinking to myself, Yeah, I really like this, and then I just listen to it a few times, A few times. I wrote the lyrics before I wrote the chorus. I think, I think that's how it went there. And then I just remember writing to myself, when you get the chance, start putting your money in the future.

Yeah, did you start with almost manifesto for the album? Because it's kind of packed with the messages along the lines of your self love, their motivational there. I think you know you act as a kind of inspiring force on it. Was that? Is that just how the collection of songs that you wrote came together? Or did you sit down and go I want this album to be a sort of positive experience for people.

Listening a mixture of both, because some of the songs I've had from before and I re recorded them and tailored them to a more positive message just through me becoming more mature in life. So my opinions on certain things kind of got a bit more understanding. Yeah, And I feel like I am the manifesto in itself, do you know what I'm saying. And I'm a man of faith as well, So my whole life, I've always believed

I really enjoy it. I'm really happy.

And I hope that all the children that grow up on this music, all the all the people who listen to it can relate to it because love, peace and power and having a collected mind, that's something that everybody in life wants, so what I'm saying, So it's kind of universal in that sense, and I believe that God himself is universal. So that's why I wanted to make the album in that way.

Because your faith is like a reoccurring theme on the record. Yeah, exactly, And it was important that that played the fundamental And then that feels like the foundation of it almost. Is that fair to.

Say, yeah, because that's that's actually who I am. It's not like obviously your life we go through what we go through. You can't help where you're born or you know how people treat you. But you can always decide to want to be a better personal or like show the best of yourself. So that's what I wanted to do with my album.

Man, it's released on your own label. Yeah, it's pretty much all you, right, I mean, this is this is your complete word them. Do you have like a producers it worked with you? Because there's not. It's not that you brought in any There's no big guest spots or anything like this. It feels like this is a statement about who novelist is, who you are, that you're kind of starting out intention Why was it important that this was a record made by you, released by you, kind

I wanted to be the purest version of myself and creative control. I don't even like that saying, you know, it comes with that whole like stigma to someone being like bossy, but nah, like I'm able, And I've always known that I was able from I was a young child. Before I even made an album, I always wanted to produce my own album just to show, like I believe

Do you feel what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, totally.

And and God is everything else, you know.

I mean people that are familiar with your journey. You've been making music since you you know, early teenager yea, releasing music since you were mid teens twenty one now, So the fact that people might have heard your name or heard you appear on records, you know, for the past few years and now you know it's twenty eighteen

Yeah, to represent me like the truest meat that I have known my whole life.

Did you feel did you do you have any pressure from your subconscious to just try and because the music industry is the pace of it's relentless, right. Yeah, they hear a new name, they want to hear they want to hear music right then, they want new music all the time. They want they want to be reading interviews, they want to be There's this kind of like rush culture, isn't it. I want everything now?

So did you have.

Any hesitation about just taking your time and delivering it when it was right or did you.

Just I've never had that hesitation. I more had irritation at people not understanding that they told me how I should do anything. Because you know that my faith is not in the wisdom of people, like my faith in myself and my faith in God is not. Someone might not ever be able to comprehend that. So you just have to look and observe what I'm doing. But they told me to put an album now because everyone's talking about me. Everyone's going to talk about me when I put out that album.

Just looking at it from the other side.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm really happy that I took my time and that my mom is my manager as well, which has really been great working with my mum, especially in this season and of my life. My brother he produces for me with me. He's shown me a lot. I've showed him a lot. A lot of the stuff that I'm doing is within my household. So for me, this is the best time that I could have put out my album. Yeah, and and and even within my soul, I'm just at peace in my life, in every aspect of my life.

Everyone knows that being part of a family unit, there are always ups and downs. I remember very well during my older brother and there were good times and they were not so good.

Yeah, that's just.

The way family life works. But when you when you work so intensely with close family on a project that's very close to your heart, there the frictions that come from that.

Yeah argument, I mean, I mean, the times are done for me because it's all about a decision.

Yeah, you know, true love.

Yeah is like even when you're at sometimes you just back down because you may realize that you know this person, they're not. They can't see it from the angle that I can see it. So even if you're at your love surpasses that, you know what I'm saying. So it's like we don't really have points to prove anymore. It's more about just getting everything done.

Can you separate those things? A lot of people would think of it as business and personal. You know, you're merging those two things together. So do you find yourself sat at the dinner table, sat watching TV, and then yeah, your brother says hey, I oh, your mum says hey, I need you to reply to this email did somebody send or do you mind that those two worlds are basically so tightly laced?

Yeah, because it's fun. Yeah, yeah, it's fun.

It's not you know, like it's easy to think of the worst because we know that that's the circumstance that a lot people were going through on a day to day basis. But me, myself and me and my people, like, we know what the mission is, so there's no confusion, Like confusion is not allowed to enter.

You know what I'm saying.

Is one of the benefits of having your mother as your manager, knowing that your mom's always going to have your best interests at heart.

That is the sole benefit. That is the biggest benefit man.

And one of the greatest things is just seeing my mom just travel go to different places.

Would you mind me asking what did she do before she was managing you?

She's always worked with young women. Yeah, she used to work in a women's hostel in Lewisham, and so she's always mentored young women. Love young people. I remember even when I was in primary school, my mom would come and do assemblies and you know, like like teach the history of different cultures and you know, just like she just loves young people. So her being in this field, she knows most of the MC's.

That are my age. Yeah, they've been in and out of my house and stuff.

And what do they is your mom? Like, will presume that she's a very kind of respected figure in.

That Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never really had anyone other than people who completely don't know me, and never no one's ever really that dissed my mom or anything like that. People people in my whole borough, like, I've been a community person from the jump, So my borough knows my mom virtually, you know, I'm saying they were yes, mommy, how you doing, Mommy right, Yeah, that's my mom's character.

So it's like I.

Feel like even in the field of music, when she meets the artists, it's the same thing.

Yeah. Really, she's a real mum.

What about your friends, your family, your your friends from church for example, that is everybody. You must take great pride and I imagine the support there is huge, Like people really proud the fact that you're off to play festivals in Malta or you know, go and play you know, these notable gigs.

I'm a very covert person.

Yeah, yeah, they don't even know that you do.

Yeah, some some people do, some people don't. But I believe in them. That discretion will preserve any person, you know what I'm saying. So it's not it's not a thing of like hiding. But at the same time, you know, let's let people find out things naturally for themselves and because that's when you truly see who people are, you know what I mean.

I don't shout from the top of the hills. I'm not this guy.

My album just came up. Like, that's not my angle, man, Just keep it natural, keep it smooth. Maybe I know there's people in my borrow who've known me my whole life, and they don't know that I do music.

That's true, because they'll judge you for just you know, being cojo that they see.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And I love it when people call me by my name because it reminds me that I'm a normal guy.

It just has extraordinary experiences.

Yes, exactly, exactly.

And also I'm in a generation of people who like the generation that I'm in. Everyone wants to have one one up on someone else. Like I say everyone, not everyone, but a big range of people. They want to have one up on each other. And I don't want to be a part of that. I want people to see me and feel comfortable to talk to me, knowing that I'm not going to like kind of steize on them, you know what I mean. I want people to feel

So it's important to be humble and approachable.

Yeah, man, why not. I mean, it's the best thing.

It's interesting to hear you talk about it because I get the sense that music is your passion, right, but also you have enough self confidence and like a support around you from family and friends that you get the sense that if you weren't doing music and say twenty years time, everything will be all right. Yeah, some people live through the fear of failing. It feels like you're not You're not at all. You don't you're not worried about that.

An option I don't like it says, Yeah, there's a Bible verse that says God has not giving us the spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind. I believe that I don't connect with fear. Actually, if I start to feel any fear, I literally reject it on a spot like I'm not connected with this. You don't a really like, I'm not coming into agreement with that feeling because that's not what I want for myself.

You know what I mean?

Like, when I look into the future, I see exactly what I want, and that's how it's going to go, because that's how I want it to go, you know what I mean. You gotta look at it. Let's look at from a physical sense. Here, say there's a green bush to your left and a fire to your right, I say a green bush. Let's say there's a farm to your left and a family to al right. Whatever side you face and stare at is the direction you're

We've spoken about how people have received the album from like a fans perspective, perspective.

A lot of the.

Press is kind of cast you as like a bit of a spokesperson for people of your generation.

Yeah, it's kind of funny.

That's the thing I do feel about that.

People are gonna put me in whatever box they they put me in. I'll just leave that in God's hand. I feel cool, like I know what I'm trying to do and I can speak confidently about what I'm trying to do. So as long as as long as I'm never afraid of my own voice, which I'll never be, does it Like it's not that it doesn't matter what people say, but like I'm sure that people ever get

So when you see a trap like stop killing the man, then being like embraced is almost this sort of positive like a protest anthem. Yeah, are you just you embrace it as a good thing?

Right? Yeah?

You know this is this is useful.

This is useful, Like it has a purpose. Every song on my album has a purpose. There's nothing that I say that's not intentional. You know, you see the whole let's talk about stocking the mandum for a second. That how that song came about was natural. That naturally occurred because in twenty sixteen, I remember there was a lot of mass shootings on black men in the US, and

Going to happen. Yep.

I was at rinse Fem at the time. Okay, yeah, yeah, in the building and there's like a spray paint shop right next to where their office is. So I just got like some paper spray painted stop killing a man them, because like everyone in London understands the slang, you know what I'm saying, So I just sprayed it on there went there. I went there as a civilian, didn't go there as novelist, when there just as a black bay who just not really feeling all this murder stuff. And

I make music. This is the gift I was given so I might say something.

And the promotion of the messages promoted itself like it's done it itself already. Anyway, so if I had, if I had an audio to what's already been out there, people's going to connect the dots and be like, Okay, cool, this is really a real thing that's going on in the world that we need to stop killing a manum Oh it's the same guy at the protest. Oh, he

Obviously, there's been plenty of headlines this year about the serious crime that's been in London. Yeah you've been you know, you already mentioned you know you've experienced the violence. You've experienced the violence, yeah, very much, the negative side of that. So there aren't any simple answers are there.

That's what people don't get, Like there's those simple answers.

Yea.

The only thing you can do is shroud it with positivity, kill it, kill it with positivity, because you know, if you don't do that, then what are you doing. You're ever adding fuel to the fire or you're throwing water on it. And that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. So I'm just trying to do my bit. I don't think I'm those superhero or nothing. I leave that in the hands of Jesus.

That's me. But I still got my voice.

And it is frustrating when you see some of those negative things being attributed to certain communities or certain genres of music, then that just feels like you're making a connection that you're just looking for this blame culture, isn't it. It's looking for something that for example, like you know, London drill rap for example, has been singled out by certain publications as being an influence on some of the serious crime.

It is.

Yeah, you think, you think it probably is an influence, but it's not the only reason, is it.

No, it's not because it's been it's been happening. It is an influence same way, Like the same way if if if the only things they showed on TV was horror movies, that's what would be in the minds of people. So you know, like we can't we can't completely say that it has no part to play. It is influencing some of the young GE's. Like some of the young youths, they're dumb, they're not they're not intelligent yet, Like they need to grow up a bit, Like people go through

You know what I'm saying.

There's there's all types of influence, but for people to single out a genre and say it's only this, I think that's stupid about talk about some of the policies that are out that make the community a certain way. Like, there's all kind of we could all put our fingers at a million different things, but what's the point in doing that when we could put our finger at the solution?

I mean to take it back to the music. The as I already said, the album focuses on a positive message. Yeah, so to connect those two things. Have you spoken to people that have listened to your music that have said it's had a posit positive influence on my life And I'm going to choose this path rather than this path, and hopefully this one's like less destructive than this one.

Yes, it's nice to hear, man, it's nice to hear. It's really nice to hear. It's fulfilling if one person, even if it's one person out of the whole scape of the whole world, decides that, you know what, I'm going to live my life different in a better way because I've taken on this message that that I'll feel happy because one soul is priceless. You know what I'm saying. I don't want no one to die. I don't want no one to to not understand how to govern their money.

I've got a song on there.

Called Wait Wait Wait, which is talking about like people kind of just like standing next to you to lead off of you. So I put that mentality out there of like look after your own stuff and knowing it getting what they don't deserve, which is not selfish.

That is actually right.

We're supposed to protect our own, but we're also supposed to be very given as well and charitable and love people. So it's a balance of having a steadfast mind and be in control of yourself as a person, and anyone who takes on those messages hopefully it's a catalyst to them becoming a better version of themselves.

It's been often said that you are a young man with a wise sort of head on your shoulders. It's the thing that I kept reading before we met up today. And how do you take that as a compliment, because you know, it does feel like in your you know, relatively short twenty one years, that you've experienced a lot that it makes it's a really mature record, really mature album to have made it twenty one, I think, because twenty one I was still really just not figuring out

Yeah, thank you, thank you.

I'll tell you how I take it, and I talk about God a lot, but I have to credit it back to God because when I was young, I read a story in the Bible about King Solomon, and he was the king of Israel at the time. I remember this story he asked, He actually asked God for wisdom and understanding, and that never that never ever left me. So I always used to pray to God, to God, I need wisdom. I wanted to dwell on having wisdom. I'm I'm not.

The wise this guy. I've made some mistakes that I was saying.

But when people told me that wires and et cetera, it's like a confirmation that God is doing a work in me, that all the things that I really desired from my heart I'm receiving. Because I've always wanted to be wise, not for not for my own self glorification, but why not be wise in this earth? It's better that you be wise than unwise. That's that's wisdom in itself, and and and you know that that's the truth. So I just pray. I've always prayed for wisdom the beginning.

So these are the things that I focus on on a daily basis.

This album obviously was rooted at home, but did take you to other places like Abbey Roade Studios, the famous Abbi Rode studios. But am I right in thinking that when you were working there, the whole sort of the the musical history of the place was not what you were most impressed with. You actually just found the people there, the atmosphere was okay. Tell us a bit more about what that experience was like.

How how I came into contact with Abby Road. Here was I made a song with a friend of mine, uncle j d Reid, and this song was called Ready, and he he made me revocal the song at the Abbey Road studios. They opened a studio called the Gatehouse.

It's like a.

Separate part, but I met I met a man called Mark Robertson at Abbey Road, lovely person. He stuck with me the whole way. I've met my engineer Gordon, lovely guy as well, and I just remembered thinking to myself, I need to come back and do some stuff with these dudes. So once I got working on my album, I mixed it down to the best of my ability. I just called up Abby Road and said, yeah, I want, I want to book a few sessions and we only ended up using I booked four days in the studio.

You don't need to give you another day. I'll be ripping you up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you're done.

Yeah.

And a man, a man called Alex Alex mastered the album as well. Lovely guy man. They're just sweet people in there. Their relationship with my mum is like unbreakable because it's really personal. Everything's just like so much love. So you know, when I go there, I'm going for the people and the staff that they're like, even even the bartender in the in the canteen, Dave, lovely guy. You know what I'm saying. I'll give you so much shout outs right there. I just got love for for

It's refreshing to hear that because there are definitely artists that I've spoken to before who feel the weight and the pressure of the space the building. The cliche goes that musical history is oozing out of the walls. You know, all the people that have recorded over there, obviously famous, made famous by the Beatles and everything else. But it's nice just to hear that your experience was kind of removed from that almost It wasn't. That wasn't the important thing.

I went there to put their studio, bro that was it.

Like like, like, I respect the history, but I'm not a madman, so I'm not going in there being overwhelmed.

But it's not that like I'm saying.

I've was even having a little joke, like I've heard these guys that's gone there, that kissed the.

Floor and all of that stuff. That's not going to do.

Anything for me, you know, pictures of the wall and the toilets and stuff away with this, yeah, piece of history.

Yeah, like that's not that doesn't do anything for me. I'm a very simple man, you know what I mean. Let me pay for my session, un let's have fun doing it and then end results, you know what I mean. But it's been really special because of the history and because of how important this album is to people. It kind of goes hand in hand with the whole Abbey Road.

Well, yeah, you know what I'm saying.

So hopefully in the future I might be one of them dudes that people are like, yeah, novelists recorded there.

I hope. So.

Man, it's a special moment for any artist to release the debut album because you only ever get to do that once. Yeah, and so do you feel like you've kind of like fully taken on that experience and fully enjoyed it for what it is.

Yeah, I just let it be as simple as it should be. I haven't thrown like crazy parties, and just like because it was all about the music getting out, That's what it was. And you know, sometimes when it comes to this stuff, everyone can make such a big deal out of everything except for the actual music, Whereas this time, I've tried to approach it the opposite way. Let the music speak for who I am and what

What are your dreams like aspirations, Like what opportunities do you hope it opens up for you? Like I mean in platform wise, you know, like I don't know whether somebody ever dreams of like getting a BRIT Award nomination or gets the opportunity to perform at the BRIT Awards to make.

I expect that stuff. Yeah, I know, thespire for that stuff.

I expected what's on You're like, what do you expect?

Then?

I expect to with a mercury one day. I expect to like you see, like the Stort Awards and stuff. I expect to be in those places because I know that my music is great and if you're, if they're, if those people are saying that they handle great music, then I expect to be there because that's that's what my lifestyle with my music is in agreement with It's in agreement with greatness and et cetera. So I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily want to list out, oh yeah, I want to do this, this and that.

But more more on a personal.

Aspiration would be to see to be in different communities and have talks with people about the messages that I'm trying to put out because my music is purposeful. My music isn't about me or just for me. My music is for everyone, for everyone to actually come together and make sense. I added simple things in life. Those are the things that will really, like get my blood jumping that I'd love to, like, really chop it up with

Just finally, so the album you made, it's very much about you, but you have worked with other people in the past. Jamie x X skeptic people like that. What's next in your thought process? Debut album's done in a practical sense, like now, do you want to go and work on a few other projects as you're doing new things? Or is it like album two. I'm already focused. I've already got an idea of where I want that to be.

I've got so many ideas. And also I've got a lot of music done that's not out. I've got so much songs that have not released it, So revamp some of those songs, put out some songs that are ready took over. As for projects, I've got many ideas. It's just it just doesn't stop. It doesn't stop to the casket drops and even in it don't stop.

It never stops.

And it's gonna help some new guys in the future as well who have the right head on their shoulders. Whatever I can do to be an asset to the Kingdom of God and and and just like make life better for people while I'm on earth, That's what I'm want.

And if we've got any Mercury Prize judges listening needs to go back. Novelist guy needs to go back to the top of the inbox.

Midnight Chats is a Loud and Quiet podcast production by Emma Snook Music courtesy of gold Panda. Search Midnight Chats on iTunes for more episodes and to subscribe. For more information, visit Loud and Quiet dot com.

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