Ep 48: Gaz Coombes

I have. Thank you to those who tuned into episode forty seven of the podcast, you'll have no doubt heard that I thoroughly enjoyed spending an hour with Courtney Barnett and her slightly strange sounding recipes for a Sunday roast. Wherever you're listening to this now, you'll find that chat there if you haven't had a moment to listen to it already. And when I was looking back the other day. Already this year we've recorded conversations with Old Jay Craig,

David Shirley Manson, Graham Coxon, who else? Shame that was a good one back in January. If you like us, do leave some star ratings and feedback comments, that kind of stuff. And even better still, if you like what we do, do subscribe. You'll automatically get a new episode when we stick one of these out every fortnight. On a Thursday at midnight, speaking of the start of the year, in January, and email dropped into my inbox announcing a new album from one time Supergrass front man and now

very established solo artist, Gaz Coombs. I'll save you the waffle, but basically it said, Gaz Coombs has a new album coming out in May, called World's Strongest Man, and it's informed by a number of things including toxic masculinity, Californian weed, Grayson Perry's book The Descent of Man, Frank Ocean's Blonde,

and the British Woodland. And I thought I'd quite like to talk to Gazcombs about all of that, So a few weeks back, I packed up this podcast gear, got into my car, drove to Gaz Coombs's family home in a village in Oxfordshire. He made me a cup of tea in his kitchen and very generously showed me around the place and we recorded this conversation you're about to hear.

For context, We started in his garden and to put the picture in your mind, there's a slope from there down to a garden gate out into a huge field. We walked a big loop along a tree lined avenue, past some derelict farmhouses and then back through the field just as it started to rain quite heavily. So, yeah, Midnight Chats something slightly different for our forty eighth episode, A visit to Gazcumbs's house. Thank you for listening, enjoy. This isn't normal for us. We don't normally do podcasts

like this is normal. Well, you know, welcome to this is this is Midnight Chats. But we're starting it in Gas Coombs's garden. Yeah, your house in Oxfordshire. Your house is stunning, by the way. Just we should probably start by describing the view for people from where we stood. Well, back garden here you can hear the faint laughter of school children at the primary school down there. My kids went to that school. Yeah you know, so I guess we'll be a back garden looking out across the fields

over towards Shotover. So yeah, and I grew up in this place as well, so I remember all those cows. Probably not the same cows that were there when I was like seven. Probably the relatives of various cows descendants were eaten. Not I didn't kill any cows. Don't get me wrong. I didn't do anything illegal. But yeah, so the field's over there, and you know this is the overgrown lawn handy in the garden. You get out in the garden as a family. No, I'm terrible in the garden,

in fact, so much so. I saw an advert. I was in Europe last week and I saw an advert for this kind of robot lawn mower. I thought, man, I might get one of those, although at the same time I think they're awful. But no, I struggle with the garden. But get my dad over sometimes to to do some weeding. As soon as you get that sort of barbecue season. Yes, exactly, it's a really beautiful scene. We've got rolling fields kind of stretching out into the distance.

We've got some stunning trees just like that kind of go in a semicircle around the back of your garden. Here you've got a little garden shed their green and white gardens, revolving Yeah, a little revolving house. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, do you find yourself going down there occasionally. Yeah, I sort of. I have taken cables from the house before because I've recorded here at the house as well. I've

done Yeah, I've done pretty much three albums here. I've tried feeding cables down to the summer house to record some guitar. It kind of works. It's good for the you know, bird noises and stuff if I want to get all yeah, all kind of nature and it's a good vibe though. It is a nice garden that you know, it feels good. I try and get the kids out here more. But man, you know, I used to build like camps and ugh, and you know, go because there's

a bit of woodland down the bottom there. And I used to go and build camps all the time when I was a kid, and just try and get the kids out of this. Are you're talking about that? What do you mean a camp? What sort of camp? And I was like, well, just I don't know, go and get some twigs and some leaves and build yourself a little area. They look at me like I'm utterly mad. It's like, look, it's all here for you guys. Put the eyepad down. They can learn how to do treehouses

on YouTube. Now well, yeah, yeah, that could be cool. There's a couple of nice trees for that here. Actually, yeah, yeah, we would have walked down these steps here, let's do it. So this, as I was saying, this is not the normal situation that we're we record a podcast, this is actually what normally we're in our office in East London, which is which is lovely but quite cramped. And here this is actually what fresh air smells like, you know it. Yeah,

this is unpolluted, whether nature's goodness is Yeah. I particularly enjoyed the drive up here because I came cross country out of London to Oxfordshire, and besides seeing lots of really nice looking country pubs and potentially a steam train museum. I think I went past that sounds familiar. There are some great names of villages in this part of the world that's coming through Skittles green nice. I think there was one called pickle Wick Lovely maybe Kingston Blout Have

you been there? No, not being to Kingston Blount. No, where's the other one? Is there was? I can't remember? Yeah, now there's some quite Who's this my wife? We're meeting her? Hi, gass wife, She just come back from the gym, and she's thinking, look at these two ridiculous looking fellows. Have you got a key? All right? Oh, we're just gonna go for a little wonder all right, it's tea in

the pot. Well done, gas, good planning. Yeah, we're getting towards actual We're getting getting towards the end of the garden. This garden gate, Oh yeah, so this is the this is the Yeah, there's a little veg plot down there, and we can go and raid it for some corsettes and the occasional garret and then yeah, that's that little bonfire bit there. The kids think a witch lives in there for some reason. I've never seen her myself, so I'm doubtful that that's actually true, but it is. It's

good looks. End of the garden myth material when we're walking back from the pub a sort of five six, and it gets it's getting dark. I like it down here. It's almost like an orchard or something, isn't it. Well it is, Yeah, there apples a few apple trees here, I think. So, yeah, we've let it, you know, we've let it kind of be a bit more wild down here. I kind of like it wild, yeah, less kind of

preamed and sculpted. It's nice and yeah, wildflowers and stuff. Yeah, as you were saying, it is perfect for den making. So yeah, through the little let me just log it our gate just as your listeners, we're hear onto some gravel. Exciting there we go. So yeah, this is like the little shortcut that where we can get down to the village basically without seeing any other any other human beings. Yeah,

become this little secret way. As I was saying, there are some brilliantly named villages in Oxfordshire that I drove through my way to visit. Even here today, there's a there's a place to park. I don't know where it is. There's place of past called Toka's Greenways thoughts that sounds cool. That sounds cool. Yeah, apparently it's terrible around there. No, Yeah,

so anyway we were, we were approaching the field. We've come out of the back of gas his house, through his garden into onto the sort of short village path and into the into the field. We should probably before

we go any further, just explain where we're going. We're kind of on our way to do a little walk around to sort of see some of the local local sites, a place where you kind of grew up and hang around with and like basically the area that made you you and therefore helped go into your writing pro Yeah, I guess it's there's just a lot of memories here.

I think it's there's a lot kind of etched in my mind from from over the years, you know, way back from when I was a kid, and you know, I used to come and hang out down by this little stream here and and you know, have a joint away from my folks and you know, just escape the house for a little bit. And you know, I've come

up here for you know, different reasons. I mean there were times I've I've written a song called the Oaks on my latest album, and it's kind of inspired by where we're going to head towards just a group of oak trees where I don't know, I maybe go. I've remember going there a few times when after my mum

died and when she was very ill. Just yeah, i'd almost like, you know, just getting a bit of headspace and then kind of find myself talking to them and and you know, questioning, questioning things, and you know, I don't know, just just that sort of freeing up, you know, any kind of negative sort of thoughts, and it's good for that, you know, just to just to wander along

and feel that air around you. You know. I guess you're a big advocate for if you're working on something and the idea is just not coming, or if you've had a stressful day week of just taking yourself out for a bit of fresh air, long walk kind of. I'm not, I'm not. I'm not as intuitive with that as I as I should be. I kind of tend to battle through and think, no, this idea will come, and then I just kind of end up doing my

head in a bit about it. So I'm not. I'm not great at kind of seeing when that moment it is right to sort of step away. But but you know, yeah, I do. I do kind of come out here all the time and take the kids for little wonders and stuff. And even when I was in my teens, there's a lot of we used to have parties at my parents' house when they went away. I remember a few kind of mad parties we'd have and then we'd all pile out. I think I think there was one where we took

some acid. It's just like kind of very sort of seventeen eighteen. We took some acid and then walked across the fields and like we all sort of, I don't know, we kind of raided loads of cupboards of my younger brother and my older brothers and put on loads of weird clothes sort of school uniforms and stuff, and like it ran out across the field, like with no shoes on and stuff, and we made it over to this

amazing little it's like a little building. Yeah, I can see it in the distance, and yeah, it's kind of this mad little sort of chapel sort of type building, and yeah, just hanging out in there and going bonkers. And and then there's that cowshed over there, which has been there sort of for as long as I can remember, which I can see from my house. So it's like it's just a sort of view that I'm really used to and I love to look out on it really so.

But yeah, this field and over in the shot over is just all sorts of memories, you know, some kind of from tough times, some just from you. Yeah, exactly, It's just a little bit of everything. But yeah, we go through here, Yeah, let's go for a walk across the fil for me to get that, it's like a one at a time. All right, there we go. Yeah, you always want your field gate with a good squeak on it, don't you. It wouldn't be the same to

be authentic. You grew up in Oxfordshire, you grew up in the house that you live in now, but you haven't always been there, so you moved away. You've in different places, including Brighton. What was part of the well, what was this? You know, the greenery, the fresh air, the kind of open space. Was that part of the attraction that coming back to this part of the world kind of? I mean, I'm really not. I really enjoy

city life. I think I moved to Brighton when I was seventeen, I think kind of ninety yeah, ninety six, ninety seven. I moved to Brighton, stayed there for ten years, and yeah, I loved it. It was really In fact, it was quinde quite tough decision to decide to come back to Oxford but it was around a time where my mum was ill, and so after she died, I just wanted to come back and hang out with my dad and just you know, be around and be there

and for my kids. To be near their near their cousins, because my brother lives here too, So it's just I don't know. I guess it was more of a sort of instinctive kind of family move. You know. You just get those points in life where you know, I'd started my own family and and you get you get a feeling for what's important at that at that time in your life. And I think at that moment it was it was here to come and be an email man.

And yeah, I know here I am sort of eight years later, but you know, I've done three albums here at the house, and and I just had this space to explore and to experiment and to set up the studio and and to really play with all these new ideas, you know, And so I think it's it's worked out really well. Just coming back, but I am getting pangings for the city life. What thing? Is there any specific things you miss? Is it the proximity to things to do? Is it just the general buzz? What are the kind

of specifics of the city that you miss? Yeah, I think it's that sort of you know, where you can wake up Saturday morning and I always remember, you know, I used to live two two doors away from a pub. So wake up Saturday morning, pop pop into the pub about Levenish. They used to do a great Saturday, a great Saturday breakfast, have a breakfast, have a little pint and then you know, maybe some foot you would be on.

And I don't know. Those Saturday mornings I remember really really well, just being kind of quite free and exciting and yeah, everything's on your doorstep, But I don't know. At the same time, that's kind of you know, life moves pretty fast anyway, with touring and traveling around and visiting different cities and countries. You know, it's it's it's it has a certain pace to it that I'm very used to and I think, but then to come back

here to the country side, I don't know. I just I appreciate that a change and that different way of living. So do you feel like you get as many ideas being out here? Would you have to work harder to find inspiration? Because I guess one thing you could say about living in the city is that you're surrounded by noise and buzz and opportunities to go and see things

and learn things. And yeah, I guess when you're a little bit further out those things you have to work a little bit harder to go and experience those things. You've got as much inspiration coming to you on a sort of day to day basis. Yeah, because I mean, like I said, I guess because I see a lot of you know, the kind of the faster sides of life.

I guess when I'm working, and I guess I look at this as a as a opportunity to sort of process all of the experiences, and I think that that space in my head is Yeah, I find that it works, Yeah, just to kind of work through those ideas and any any new inspiration that I've seen, or kind of a mad train journey through Europe or or you know, a period of time in one city and I come back here and I can just sort of you know, make

notes and yeah, process all that and turn it into something. So, you know, I do feel like I've got you know, it's kind of best of both in many ways. You're putting out a new record soon in May at the World's Strongest Man, which will talk about a bit more about in a bit, But there are a number of big influences that or influences experiences I guess that informed the ideas that fed into the album, one of which

is The Great British Woodland, I guess. But there are lots of other things as well, and I wanted to talk about a couple of those before we get to the woods, because we're on our way there now. We are, we are, We're close. The Descent of Man is a book by Grayson Perry, which you've mentioned was something that you read in the run up to writing some of the songs that appear on this new album. How did you come across that book? I can't remember. My wife's

a writer and she also works in the bookshop. She's always throwing me new books and just kind of placing them by the side of the bed and going, you know, just kind of pushing me to read other stuff because I can be a bit lazy with all that. Yeah, And it was just I think it was summer last summer, Yeah, and just kind of went off for a bit, you know, just to get away from the village and take the

family away for a little bit. And yeah, that was just what I was reading at the time, and I just sort of thought it was really it was really enlightening, really beautifully written, really non judgmental, kind of very very on the nose and just very relevant, and it kind of resonated a lot with me, you know, and I think also having two daughters, you know, they're growing up quick, and you just think, you know, I want to make sure that that they've got a good outlook on you know,

I guess on the social side of things and how relationships play out, how you deal and interact with other people, and I just think, Yeah, it's hard to sort of ignore, you know, a lot of the sort of negative, kind of toxic, sort of alpha male driven shit that we're sort of all seeing a lot of the moment and just feels a bit old fashioned, you know, for people that haven't read it. Grays and Perry as well as being hugely talented artist, green writer as well, so articulate.

I mean, I think I read I read it recently as well, and it's his take on I suppose the shape of modern masculinity, how it's come to that point, and also a bit of a handbook about how how we might all be able to do things a bit better, you know, to shape shape the next few years of

how masculinity might look. Yeah, and I think one of the things that really stuck with me was you know, imagine for young kids, you know, young boys, imagine sort of being able to free free them up from any kind of cliche perception kind of of how a young man should act or how tough he should be, or whether you need to guard the end of your street, you know, at night, you know, from from other dudes, and whether I don't know, and if you sort of kind of freed them of a lot of those perhaps

kind of inherent Yeah, those sort of inherent ideas, those sort of emotional kind of you know, ways of dealing with things I don't know, I think then then you you know, they could be amazing, amazing people. It's just like, you know, if you're freed up of that ship, imagine how amazing and free you could be. Yeah. In the book, he talks about how some of that traditional sense and some of that traditional way of thinking or shaping masculinity

has quite destructive effects as well. That kind of emerged almost like silent destruction effects because of almost not expressing yourself, yes, and not feelings, not feeling comfortable, not not you know, and maybe the just it's more what's on the outside, it's kind of surface and you know, that's I guess that's another thing with you know, we've seen to a really positive degree of the loss of four or five years, is you know, men being able to speak about mental

health and men being able to talk openly about stuff, and it's yeah, it's all right, you know, it's all right to kind of talk to your best mate and and and not feel like you're you're being really girly, you know. Yeah, it's just it's just very sort of a very coherent book and very articulate, and I just really enjoyed enjoyed reading it. Yeah, I must have been. When I finished reading it, I kind of wanted to go out and buy a bunch of copies and give

it to lots of my male friends. Yeah. Well, yeah, I just say any young lads, you know, every young lad should read it, just, you know, just give it a shot. You know, you might not agree with all of it, but it's just it's the word. I don't know, it's just it's sort of I felt quite You mentioned

the word enlightening early. I think, yeah, I think what it does so well is for many people, I know, it articulates the way that they feel the feelings that they have that they perhaps haven't been able to articulate themselves. And also, I think any man, I know, from whatever age, any generation, will recognize parts of themselves in that book. And I think it's just a bit of a some of it's quite a wake up call, I think. Yeah, I actually read it briefly after I'd finished reading Harry

Clinton's but okay, Yeah, Combine those two things. Hearing about the the barriers that were caused purely by Hillary Clinton being a woman, which she came up against when it came to the last election in America, and then couple that by reading Grayce and Perry's book, The Descended the Man I wrote, I really it felt very It resonated heavily with me. Yeah, you know, and I think that's the same for me. It sort of felt modern, and it felt it just felt on the pulse on the nose.

It was, you know, times are changing, it's kind of you know, and there's almost a bit of a sense as well from men that they're kind of you know, that they may be concerned or they're worried about this sort of shift or well, I know, well, how am I supposed to be? You know, what we're supposed to do. And it's like and I sort of think, well, you know,

fuck it. It's kind of maybe it's sort of men's turn to feel a bit awkward and uncomfortable, and like we've been running the show for you know, it's the beginning of time. It's like, you know, you're right, so you're going to feel a bit awkward. You don't, you don't quite know, you know, how to you know, deal with with you know, strong women and strong opinions from

women and stuff. It's like, just you know, that's the way it's been for you know, for women for so many years, and it's I don't know, it's just it's just kind of ridiculous. It's I just sort of see see you know, the human being, you know, and you know you've got to really I don't know, at the same time, knowing that we are different, you know, men and women are different. We kind of you know, we do get attracted to each other. They result there that

sort of sexual chemistry. It will always be there. It's kind of but ultimately it's just yeah, just just don't be a dick. It's quite it's quite simple. Just you know, be a decent person. And you know, yeah, I just want my two girls to to grow up and meet do you know, Actually I've got friends who've got teenage boys and stuff. They're they're all amazing. They're really its

gentle guys you know who are just don't know. I'm sure they have they're just going to maybe have a bit more of a perhaps the sort of balanced overview of things as they I hope they are, you know, but at the moment they seem very sort of on it and have a gentle kind of aura about them. You know. We had Shirley Manson from Garbage on this podcast. She was on here a few months ago. It's still still there if people want to go back and listen

to that, if they haven't already. But we had a similar conversation to this, but with regards to the Me Too movement, for example at the end of last year, and how at that time when I was catching up with her, there were lots of symbolic things happening at awards ceremonies, for example, at the Oscars and the Bafters and stuff, people stressing the imagine the pressure for a lot of those, but she actors and stuff as well, just not wondering if they've done the right thing or

warn the maybe is that okay, what of wa tonight?

You know, I know, but she was also making the point that all these experiences that have happened to these women and who are now speaking out, she just felt like this was women speaking out on a male problem, as in, the problem is not with women, The problem is with men, and as you just mentioned there, that we might be entering a period of discomfort and some you know, really kind of looking herself in the mirror, period where it actually is men's turn to recognize the

privilege that they've sat in for so much time that maybe it is time that completely completely. Yeah, it was disappointing, possibly much more than that, not to hear more men speaking out about particularly you know, those movements and just but I think that's also social media in the way

that things are interpreted. I think it's I think that like I guess, like I was getting out when I said, it's like there's a bit of panic and pressure, and I think I think, I think genuinely a lot of yeah, probably a lot of decent, you know, very well meaning men, which maybe we're unsure about how to say something. But I mean, again, that's kind of not it's not a bad thing to kind of have to stumble over words to find it right. You know, we'll get there, you know.

I mean, I'm confident that there will be a more balanced outlook, and I think with the generations to come. I know, with my nine year old daughter, she's she's very clued up on things, and you know, I mean, I know, it's kind of it's classic for sort of you know, kids to sort of get into the environment and say, oh, I never smoke a cigarette and I'm never going to drink. You know, although it's kind of

it happens. But at the same time, she's very kind of she seems quite certain about certain things, you know, in terms of the environment and and what we're doing. And you know, even down to the kind of the trash TV that that they watch. You know, you'll get kind of some sort of dating program, but you know, you have two guys, it might have two girls being on the date. And man, you know, that wasn't like in the eighties watching Blind Date it was it was all it was all very sort of you know, well

hemo sexual kind of completely. So the fact that even the trash TV that that's just happening in our homes is it is rightly so it's it's normalizing any any sexual preference that you know where you know, where people want to sit in their lives. And I think that's that's a great thing for the new generation to sort of see that as a just a normal thing that passes by. You know, it's nothing unusual. If we head down here, We've just down a really really nice kind

of tree lined track. It's like the avenue. It's called the Avenue of Trees, and but here that's the sort of that's the main big boy over there, that big oak tree. It's glorious, isn't twelve fifteen high? Maybe? Yeah, so yeah, no, this is kind of it's just like I said, I just come and rant and you know, not get any answers, never get any answers, but never speak. They don't silent wisdom. They do and they kind of wave,

they wave me away, wave me on my way. We just go up there and then we can then we can sort of head back the other way. But this is a cool little spot here. But you know, yeah, it's also just just kind of with the album title and the and the artwork, you know, the artwork, it's got this kind of flawed character, kind of lying down and you know, in this very sort of glamorous setting, although it has a slight sort of faded glamour to

it as well, which I quite like. And then you've got the big bold to a title World's Strongest Man in you know, in pink font and I just sort of think I felt like that sort of said quite a lot for me in terms of, you know, not even the sort of not even the kind of the masculinity sort of issues as such, but just more being a vulnerable, flawed human being and and sort of what strength is, I guess, and just and just, you know, is his strength kind of Yeah, it's not about money

or muscles and power and rising to the top and making your way to the White House or whatever. It's it's kind of about, you know, It's it's about resilience, I guess, and just and being open to be really lost and kind of messed up. And I think the opening line of the album is I'm a little mashed up because you know whatever, my head's in a weird

kind of toxy turvy state. And I guess I just sort of thought, I don't mind a missing that I don't mind just sort of, you know, I never want my lyrics to be kind of morose and depressing and too self analytical. I don't think. I think. I always look outward, I think, and the lyrics have to still have a hook. You can't just ramble about my inner thoughts.

But I can take some of those inner thoughts and put them into a framework that's got a cool structure to it, that's still you know, a palatable, cool structure,

and it's not it's not just some guy moaning. And I thought that was kind of interesting as well, just to sort of, I don't know, just to sort of entertain those things and not not sort of hide away from them and place myself as this I don't know, this rock and roll style that's got everything or whatever, you know, whatever it is, all this kind of untouchable sort of thing that that I don't know, I just

sort of feel the life's not like that. Man. It's like, if I can put you know, put it into my art, I think that's I don't know, that's what I like to see in a painting if I go to if I go to a gallery or so, I like to see true expression, emotion in a painting. You know, I don't want to see them trying to be something or or painting for the painting, for the person looking at it. It's kind of it's got to be something raw. There's a little barn. Yeah, it's like a kind of old

deserted barn. It is often. There used to be chickens here, actually loads and loads of chickens. Okay, did this used to be used lived in? Yeah? I think it's part of a there's a a there's various sort of houses through shot over it's part of a big estate. I guess. I think this used to be part of that place. But it's seen better days. Yeah, it's sort of begging for a renovation. Yet it's kind of cots cootts old stone will Yeah. Yeah, that's not too good with my

stone getting stone. So look, we can spin around if you want. It's wander back. But there's another big beast over there. Look another big oak. Some cows in the field over there, cows lying down. Doesn't that mean it's gonna rain? I thought it meant that their legs are tied. I think probably more likely that isn't it. But yeah, you could be you could be. Are you like a country person because I'm from the country originally, although I

live in the city now. But there's a certain way about country folks, isn't that Because I mean, I suppose we're we're wildly out in the country here. I guess we're still close to Oxford, which is which is a big city. But yeah, have many farmers. Yeah, yeah, there's one over there. There's one in the rain over there. Do you know. Actually we've had a few dodgy runnings with the farmers. Actually, yeah, we've had dogs before of what friends who've brought dogs out stuff. Yeah, man, we've

been sort of shot at. But but I mean I doubt if we were sort of directly shot out. I think it was a warning shot, a sort of warning get off my land shot, right, they don't want to Yeah, they can be quite brutal, man, But but no, it's I don't know if I could do deep country mat. I don't know if that might drive me a bit mad. So I do like being close to the close to Oxford,

but a nice bit of both. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely, But I also like sort of country pubs are like the village pubs that I kind of like, you know, if I wander in for a pint or something after rehearsal of the fact that there's the same three four old geezers at the bar and right, guys totally unimpressed. And I just sort of think that's I think that's brilliant. I think that's something quite raw about that that. Yeah, you know, you're not going to make a fuss out

of me. I'm not gonna I'm not strolling any of like a big rockst I just want to pint and and you know, write some lyrics or catch up on emails. But yeah, that's kind of a good fight. Yeah. Some of the other subjects things that have informed the record. Picked out a few to talk about today. You also mentioned one album in particular, which is Frank Ocean's Blonde. A huge fan of that album. I think it was more that I think I waited for the the hype to die down. I think it was an extremely sort

of hyped record and Channel Orange as well. I think I think as soon as as soon as I sort of let it, yeah, that it does settle. I guess I just I just thought I'd put it on for a long, long car journey home this one time. Yeah, and it just really. I just thought it was really cool. I thought it was really experimental and a bit different. I didn't think it was full of you know, hip

hop hits. You know, it had it had some great roots still in all the incredible stuff that Stevie Wonder gave us and that sort of things he'd do Frank would do with his voice and with the melodies and stuff. I thought was really cool. But yeah, just the experimental approach I thought was really refreshing. A tractor come in there, have we It's not going very fast. I'm sure we could be. We're going to get stuck behind it. Actually coming down on this bit. I was with the kids.

It is a few years back. I was with the kids and my dad's dog as well my niece who was in a like a pushchair, and we were just sort of strolling as we are now, just down here, and then just heard this land rover just steaming up behind us, and he started beeping the horn mentally and he just said, look, guys, you've got to get off the road. There's a herd of cows and they're legging it this way. And we were kind of like, you what, no, man?

And it looked around and Yeah, there was about thirty cows stampeding towards us, and so then it was like an operation to try and get the dog, his massive black labrador, into the boot of this land rover and chuck the you know, the push chair on top as well. It was just this insane sort of two minute period where we were all freaking out and got in just in time. Yeah, and kind of literally drove away as the cows were sort of panting, like, you know, a

foot away from us, just kind of legging it. So yeah, that could have been could have been the end avoided a major cow incident. Yes, you discover Blonde a little bit. Yeah, after after the hypod had died down, and you you were just the fact that you found the production like Frank Ocean songwriting, do you think I like the sort of resistance to hammer home an idea. I think the resistance as far as the production and stuff to something

that I found quite inspiring. And I think on my last two records, I think in the writing stages, I've got to a point where, you know, you maybe like a crescendo or there they be a bit of music at the end of a verse kind of building up and building up, and yeah, I just kind of got into sort of at that point just taking it down to nothing or just to a single instrument or you know, rather than the build up, the build up and then delivering with a big, big chorus where you go, yeah, hey,

I'm the chorus. It's just sort of there's a subtlety so much. I think the underplayed, sort of understated thing. I think it's I think it was really cool, and I just I sort of always feel that it's you know, it's a real sort of show of confidence in a way, and that sort of strengthened songwriting that you can resist.

You know. Well, one thing that really excites me is having an amazing bit of music that like that's just you know, I know that it's a yeah, this bit's amazing, and I'll keep it for like five five second bit at the end of the song or something or halfway through, you know whatever, just almost kind of don't sort of make a massive song and dance about it, just kind of create things that have a subtlety that you can you can enjoy in different ways. But anyway, yeah, I

thought that was quite inspiring. I mean, I thought Beyonce's albums where Lemonade was a great record of kind of experimental, interesting at times, a really weird record, and I think again, just to hear a sort of you know, a global superstar makes something that as unconvention in that moment. Since that, I think it's quite impressive because you know, well, yeah exactly. I mean, there must be somebody whispering in your ears

saying we just want ten radio songs please. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you know, I definitely admire that defiant yeah, yeah exactly. And you know, I get that with Frank Oschean as well. I just sort of think it's it's I've always sort of enjoyed the the elements of the production of hip hop as well, I think, and now I'm sort of coming at things from the solo thing. You know, I don't I don't write with a band

and a room around me. You know, I really enjoying that space, space and freedom of experimenting on my own

and finding new sounds and new ways of writing. That it kind of makes sense that, yeah, maybe some of the hip hop stuff, some of the more those hip hop solo artists would I could I could find things in that that would be that would give me a little light bulb moment, or just push me towards something that, you know, maybe more than listening to, yeah, listening to the Clash again or or Neil Young again or whatever, you know, as much as I still listen to sort

of classic stuff as well, but it's I think it's just you know, moving forward, and you know, I'm evolving and trying different things, and so I want to I want to listen to different stuff. I want to, you know, just not base it on how I approached music for the last twenty five years. You know, it's kind of new thing Gas two point zero. How are you finding it these days? I mean it's three albums into your

solo career. I mean it's an unfair question to say, do you prefer being a solo artist and being in a band, But what are the kind of pros and the cons as far as you see it? Because you've done done this now for a little while, do you still feel like you're finding your feet in those in this in this respect or would you feel quite established now? Definitely hit a rhythm now. Whether I'm whether I found

my feet, I don't know. I kind of hope I'll never know that part of the challenge is to sort of just keep writing and keep trying to find something new that I find exciting. And I don't know if i'd feel a bit lost if I if I felt like I'd nailed it, you know, if I knew exactly who I was and what my sounding in the pursuit. Yeah, because a lot of it's a lot of what it is kind of instinctive and spontaneous. And that's why I

record right from the beginning. I record everything from the early writing stages, and it's because I want to capture the I really want to capture the performances where I actually don't know what the fuck I'm doing, and there's something in that. There's there's a sort of I mean maybe I kind of overromanticize it, but I just find there's a bit of magic in that way where you don't really I haven't really nailed the idea. It's not

fully calculated, it's not planned out. It's kind of like stream of conscience in a way, you know, and I like to capture those bits. And yeah, is it a lonelier experience anyway? Oh yeah, Well, delegating to other band members' interviews, Yeah, that's something that that could be quite and now, you know, no, it's cool. I've got I've got good people around me. You know, there's some since I started on my first record back in twenty twelve. Yeah, I just made sure

that I've got like minded people around me. There's you know, you know one of my managers is it's more of a sort of creative manager as you know, it's opposed to sort of business side of things. Okay, it started to rain a little bit, that's a little bit. Although what do you reckon five minutes away? Yeah, no, not far. Is that your house? We can see it on the eposite side of the field, Yeah, through there, Yeah, I kind of can see it there. So yeah, you've got

you've got somebody helps on the creative side. Yeah, you know, definitely, there's there's definitely a cool little network of of buddies. You know that well, you know, yeah, it means I just don't always feel completely isolated. Do you still get excited when you sit down to write a new record? Yeah,

but there's not really a particular starting point. It's kind of I think I've got like an internal clock that just tells me when I'm done with touring, you know, and I think it's just just a voice in me that so it says, right, yeah, just tomorrow, just go into the studio and sit on the drum kit for a few hours and see what happens. And and so yeah, I always find it exciting that that beginning, that beginning point where I guess I've got I've got a bit of a feeling of where I might want to go.

You know, after Mattador. There was some things I sort of touched on in Matador that I wanted to make more of and and and push push forward even more. And then other brand new kind of approaches and ideas that that I wanted to explore as well. So I always find that a really really exciting time. But you know, there there is always the kind of, you know, kind of niggling thought, I I written my last best song.

Not have I written my last I'm sure I could, you know, But I've written the last song that's really fucking good. You know, it's this, This is next eleven just gonna be all right, you know, it's gonna be okay. What about the reception that mattered or received your second solo record, I mean that including a nomination for the Mercury prize? Did that matter? The things like that give

you confidence? Do they? You know, does that a little bit of like well, I mean I've been doing it a long time, and I don't know how much it sort of matters in terms of if it's a sort of seeing of approval or anything like that. I don't know, Like it doesn't. It's not something that particularly drives me, but or you know, aids that drive particularly. But I guess it did? You know it did? It did give

me confidence? So I think when anything you do is sort of somehow validated, I don't know in a way that I just I guess in a way that just people really like it. I think that that completely gave me confidence that more really that I try to do

something really honest. That was I think the most sort of me that I'd ever done, sort of just letting letting myself kind of be as natural as possible in the studio and not try to make things sound like something else or just resist something so great it sounds really Bowie or great if it sounds you know, just resist all of that and just try and do something

natural that's instinctive. And I guess so, yeah, it's sort of validating my instinct more than anything, and just the fact that I guess when I'm myself it kind of works, you know, And that was kind of quite a beautiful thing, I guess really just to feel that, yeah, you can be yourself and it's all right. Were there any other kind of major things that were on your mind that resurfacing this record. We talked about you haven't read Grays

and Perry's, but the Descent of Man. We've talked a bit about Frank Ocean that you've listened to, and kind of absorbing those things and those things finding their way into the creation of the record that were there any Was there anything else that felt major this time? I

don't know. I mean I was sort of moving around a lot during the recording, and I was moving from I did most of it in mind, but I also went over to another studio worked with Ian Davenport who who sort of helped me co produce this record, and that's sort of freshening the sessions. That was really cool.

And also traveling a little bit still. I had about three or four visits over to California just to do some shows and you know, to maybe you know, to meet a few people meet a new label to get stuff going out there, and so I spent a bit of time in California during the writing period still, and so I was listening to the album in different settings,

and however, Californian and Weed came in very possibly. Yeah, yeah, there's a few references to a little bit of that at times, but yeah, you know, it's just that sort of warmth, you know, And I think I think that sort of warmth crept onto the record actually, like the quite physical warmth the sunshine and California and the colors, you know, and I think that's you know, it's what

you see from the cover artwork. Just close up this gate there you go there, and yeah, and you know, I guess that warmth visually and the kind and the fact that I felt these songs, I guess these songs were had a bit more warmth to them the Matador in terms of yeah, just that sort of that color and kind of like a warm hug times, you know. Yeah, So I think that that sort of crept into the

record as well. They're sort of traveling and being in another in another country, just listening to the demos and they and looking at it in a different way, because you lived in California for a little while, is that right when you were Yeah? Quite, I was really young. Yeah, I was about five six years old. So memories of

that time, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. They're all pretty basic, you know, like sort of walking on hot pavement and bare feet and yeah, I guess I just went to like nursery school and you know, all kinds of things, you know, Muppet Show, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Are they actually nice? I've never tried one? Yeah, man, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Cono, I could still still get away with the odd little the cheeky PB and Jay. But yeah, it was. Yeah,

it's kind of a great time, man. You know, it's like late seventies, early eighties in California, and yeah, it was sun filled and warm and friendly. And there we go. He's got it. We are. So we're back back to the Witch's house back in Yeah, back in the bottom of the garden. Here here we are got a kind of slope that's leading up to the back of the house. The summer is the rotating summer house. Is that what it is? That is it's on his little track. Yeah, Okay,

it looks quite quite appealing up there. I mean, you know the correct way to use it, you know, you you rotate it to the sun. That's right. Yeah, but that's far too organized for me. I just these are corseets, nice corsejets. I don't know if there's any corsets maybe yeah, yeah, but we've got some onions over there, all sorts of good bits down there. Yeah, we should raid it later. Yeah, let's get the reins getting like a head. We've probably timed it just about right. Yeah. Absolutely, it's a bit

sort of dilapidated. The somewhere else up the final steps back at base. Here we are and through the window, which is quite a nice way to finish. Is your back room stroke home studio. Correct, there's the recording desk, speakers, piano through there, and the new kitten. There's a new cats in there somewhere. You've got a cat that likes hiding in your harmonium. Yes, I see these little green eyes sort of peering at me through the pedals. Luckily, well,

I have to check before I play it exactly. Start pumping the pumping the harmonium, and it's like this is making a weird noise. What tone is that? It sounds a lot like a cat's feeling. And there we are back at the front door, so gaz, well, there we go. Thank you, Thank you so much for taking a stroll with us for this episode of Midnight Chat Man. I really enjoyed it, and you will have to come back to talk to the show because it's it's really nice

thing it out here great. We're always welcome, always welcome to pop by. You know where I live now, He knows where I live now. Honestly, always welcome.