Good evening, everyone, and welcome. Welcome to the Middle East Centre's Friday night seminar series of 74 theatre returns. Those of you who've been regular attendees will know. But off the air this term has been Iraq. 20 years on from the US invasion of 2003. We have looked at various topics relating to Iraq over the previous weeks with religion, politics and art. And today it is the term of law where we can look at the structure of the law.
And to address this, we have a very distinguished speaker. Indeed, Sir Peter GROSZ is a retired judge of the Court of Appeal in England and Wales. So Peter was called to the bar graves in in 1977 and became including his counsel in 1992 and 2001.
He was appointed to the High Court, received a knighthood and was assigned to the Queen's bench division, was senior presiding judge for England and Wales from 2013 to 2015, and he was the judge for international relations between 2018 to 19, working extensively internationally on international judicial relations, including working on the Middle East. And you won't be surprised to hear that it is so Peter's connection to the experience of the Middle East.
So we have invited him here this evening to speak about in 2018 and 2019. So Peter visited Iraq on the invitation of the president of the Supreme Judicial Council, the chief justice by Sudan, and supported by the FCDO to help advance the integration of the Iraqi judiciary into the international judiciary community and also look at issues relating to the rule of law. Now, this has given us a bit of an extremely valuable perspective.
As you can imagine, all the aspects of Iraq that we sell and see. And I think throughout this series, we try to focus on more recent developments as well as those that occurred around 2003 as a number of our speeches and a series of pointed out, sometimes in overfocus on the events of 20 years ago, obscure some of them maybe quite important and interesting things that have been happening over the more recent years.
And so we are therefore very grateful to Sir Peter for accepting our invitation to speak about our experiences on such a night. He will speak on the topic of Iraq 2018 2019. The Rule of Law A Perspective Peter. Dr. Willis, thank you for the very kind introduction and we're always welcome. It is an honour and a pleasure to be here at this most prestigious college renowned in the field of international relations. Let's deliver this lecture. Iraq 2009 to the rule of Law and Respect.
As part of the College's seminar on Iraq 20 years after 2003, I was grateful to Professor Eugene Rogan, director of the Middle East Centre, the college professor of modern Middle East history at the University of Oxford, for his kind invitation to do so. I should be clear, the retired judge, if I may be. But the views expressed in this lecture are personal and my own.
In October of 2017, thanks to the Fcdo now is and the recently appointed Chief Justice who will finish upholding the President of the Supreme Judicial Council, the Iraq War Chief Justice Dr. Focussed John Barrasso referred to by way of shorthand the C Jay Z tag, which beats the alternative longer titles. I was invited as a guest at the annual opening of the Legal Service Club in Jackson.
Representatives of the England and Wales Special Victims Unit into the Wales Judiciary returned to service at Westminster Abbey and right across the road to Westminster Hall, wearing their ceremonial frames. The media then take photographs. The judges in their ceremonial robes say if have been for 30 something days from the days immediately ahead of first class, someone looking a bit silly, filled with historic. The ceremony involved judges praying for guidance at the start of the legal year.
Today, it is as much about reaffirming a commitment to the rule of law on the very next day. Chief Justice Dan met with the recently appointed UK ambassador to Iraq, Mr. John Wilkes. CMG was over the college's very. And Mr. Wallace was accompanied by Mr. Mark Thompson, who was in the audience and was at the time just as adviser at the British embassy that day.
Later that day, Chief Justice John Taylor, the bishop, was a number of English judges of whom I was one, and they liked my interest in the judiciary's international relations work. Chief Justice Zeidan observed forcefully that he was very impressed with the opening of the legal research. It demonstrates the respect which the English traditions held, its independence and the importance of the rule of law. He would organise something similar in Iraq.
I encouraged to not know, of course, whether he would see this through. He then turned to me and said, And you must come again. I agreed, dare, I said, wondering whether I would hear anything further. I should not have doubted Chief Justice Zito's resolve and strength of purpose or the support that would be forthcoming from Mr. Wilks and Mark Thompson.
Yes. Over three months later, in January 2018, together with two judicial colleagues and supported by Mr. Ben from the Judicial Office and Independent. THOMPSON Mr. Yallop, based here, which is very useful when it comes to questions, I found myself in Baghdad attending the inaugural Iraqi Judiciary Day, a first for Iraq, and as I understand it, for the region. A year later, my colleagues and I returned to Baghdad for the 2019 Judiciary Day.
This time on a visit including Amman in Jordan and my attendance at the two Iraqi judiciary journalists comprised two of the proudest and most humbling days I experienced in 18 years as an English judge. Proud because of the honour sharing the English judiciary. I'm here because that's all reflected and wider and enduring here for the rule of law. To get here with the good governance underpinnings of which the reputation of our English judiciary was invested.
This visit also demonstrates the success. Of judge to judge, peer to peer, international judicial diplomacy or engagement, which for convenience, I look forward to just more of those two days prison. But they provide the focal points for the. In which I seek to explore screening questions. The first is progress in the Iraqi judicial system. Post 2003. The second the contribution made by judicial engagement.
The third institutionalising. A focus on recent public decades should not result in overlooking the history of the judiciary in Iraq. Goes back to ancient times to 4500 B.C., when it said the first post in. It was established in the city of Perth and the law was enacted perhaps the oldest law. That told us preceded the rugby storm by about 350 years itself of an 800 page contained in its famous legal.
This is one of the most important historical artefacts from Mesopotamia because of instead as the first known written legal document and the guidance provided for life in the Iraqi civilisation of its time. What therefore, we are discussing the rule of law or the Iraqi judiciary. It is right to acknowledge the historical roots and tradition as the cradle of civilisation for which Iraq had been justifiably proud, and for which today's Iraqi tradition can draw strength.
In the more immediate past, it has to be recognised that the rule of law was essentially defunct under Saddam Hussein prior to 2003. The judiciary was part of the U.S. attempt, it could not be meaningfully described as independent of the executive or freed from in his experience. Many developments as 2003 are undoubtedly controversial for the time being will remain.
However, the measures of the Coalition Provisional Authority undoubtedly gave a boost to the independence of the judiciary, including the re-establishment of the Council of Judges and its independence from the Ministry of Justice. As can now be seen. The Iraqi judiciary operates on a constitutional basis. Emphasising its independence from Parliament and the executive. Added two separate parts. Articles 8788 of the new 2005.
You are expressed in unequivocal terms. Postulate said the judicial power is independent. The courts and their various types and levels shall assume an issue decisions in accordance with Article 88. Judges are independent and there is no authority over this except for the law. No powers should have the right to suspend the judiciary and the affairs of justice. Duchess of Cambridge. Hospitals furthermore lower than the 45 2017.
The Supreme Judicial Council law stipulated that the Supreme Judicial Council be established with financial administration. Independence was always issued on the 23rd of January 2017 and unsurprisingly, 23. January is the date fixed annually for celebration of the work of the Iraqi judiciary. Under the leadership of Chief Justice, The increasing role played by the Iraqi judiciary in the life of the state is a next event for an institution which had not previously enjoyed.
The judiciary's inbox is daunting extending to terrorism, corruption, drugs, public order and a new 2022 code of Judicial conduct designed to enhance judicial oversight. The judiciary's role in election monitoring is particularly striking, demonstrating increased public confidence. Likewise noteworthy was the Supreme Judicial Council's decision. To suspend its work when demonstrations attempt to occupy its building. A suspension, as I understand it meant until the demonstrations.
We are in England and Wales extremely fortunate that traditional personal security has not generally given rise to life threatening risk. Sadly, the same cannot be said. By contrast, judicial duties are performed in Iraq against a background of 75 years of the roster of judges in Iraq's recent turbulent history. As it seems to be, whatever reservations might. This is demonstrable progress in the Iraqi justice. April 2003. Especially in the context of the last 30 to 40 years of Iraq.
Realistically, such progress and reforms take time. Overnight parts of. He's not to be. What links the United Kingdom and Iraq? Well, more specifically, for this evening's purposes, the English judiciary and the Iraqi professor Reagan's magisterial work, The Arabs history traces the history of UK involvement with Iraq from its post-World War II origins.
More specifically, coming to 2008, Iraq was a priority interest of the Majesty's Government in trade, with a view to combating Daish and other threats to the United Kingdom's national security. Together with a wider interest in seeing Iraq make the transition to a more stable, prosperous and democratic times with accompanying trade and other benefits. Any such transition is to put it at extremely difficult without a functioning justice system.
Yes, that explains why Iraq was a priority for the United Kingdom in 2008. We should next fight to make the international state of the English judiciary's interests and activities installed in London as a centre for international dispute resolution of world leaders. The English judiciary is pivotal to the English law. Read It enjoys rightly, but not in modesty or complexity.
In my view, the highest reputation acted so firmly as it is in the rule of law, with in terms of aspect of soft power or of global question, the standing of English law, and to assist both in the export of the United Kingdom's core values to which the rule of law is fundamental and the value of the duties exports, even in purely financial terms, that value is considerable. Recent figures suggest that the UK legal services sector generates a trade surplus of £5.9 billion in 2019.
That is, do not in the present cruelty justice expressed in the rule of law and indeed still have a kitchen value then well beyond the value of the legal services for the legal sector enormously as it is.
Indeed. It could probably be that. But English law underpins hundreds of millions of pounds of annual business activity in the UK and internationally, extending far beyond the value in significant part stemming from the independence of the judiciary and the robust and fair way in which the English legal sector operates. Financial considerations are, of course, only in the past the causal properties of the picture.
Having separate I have as to the English judiciary. It remains necessary to ask why were English judges in Baghdad and elsewhere in the region? The primary role of an English judge is, after all, to hear applications, trials or appeals court in England and to give rulings or judgements in the individual case. The reality, however, is that judicial duties extend well beyond the court, including judicial leadership roles and international relations.
The umbrella under which the English judiciary and judiciary international relations controlled is described as promoting or enhancing the rule of law as expressed by the Judicial Office. Promising respect for the rule of law and the independence of the judiciary is a focal point of our judiciary as well. There are obvious constraints on Internet. Judicial engagement. First judges are scarce resource. Their absence from the courtroom always requires justification.
You should be trying to practice what we do in front of the court. You need. Something of sufficient interest or importance to justify. Second, the judiciary has a very small budget for international judicial. Third, some engagements entail an acute consideration of reputational risk. Unless judicial engagement is confined to relationships with those states, as in the United Kingdom is already fully aligned on all of those questions and there is limited value in engaging.
Once the judiciary ranges outside that comfort set, a balance must be struck between the benefits, engagement and the reputational risk shifting and role. The benefits of judicial engagement in the right circumstances are however considerable and need to be appreciated. Asylum seekers should. The English judiciary constitutes the independent third branch of the state. The other is, of course, being part of it, since it follows those in the conduct of judiciary.
International relations Judges are independent of the executive. Indeed, the value of judicial engagement in this would be lost word otherwise. That said, this is not for the judiciary to engage in freelancing on foreign policy so that when engaging with the foreign judiciary and judges, while preserving their interest when necessary, liaise closely with the US, the value added by judicial engagement.
Foreign relations is found in the potential of [INAUDIBLE] for tat judge to judge judicial engagement and the words of the judicial office. There is a unique value in judges talking to each other, sharing the experience and developing the thinking together. Countries prosperity and security are enhanced by supportive judicial systems, individual rights and the rule of law. Bringing together judges from different states as advantages and.
Comparable to, for instance, military to military engagement. There is an immediate common ground and a readiness to engage, judge to judge, which cannot be assumed. When observe, it might be UK officials and their national eminent with the foreign judiciary, and that the best initiative to seize that the approach of the English judiciary. There. She is always to share the experience with those interested in engagement.
It is never to lecture or pontificate. And we have no monopoly on good ideas. The decision to engage and the decision whether or not to act on the idea has emerged from such conditional engagement for the host country, for the engagement to be sustainable elsewhere. There must be mutual benefits. Summarising, which is the rule of law context fundamental to the United Kingdom's core values that the 2018 2019 visits to Iraq.
What we see while of course, the English tradition cannot be everywhere in courses attached to Iraq by the United Kingdom, provided an article justification for these visits. Turning to the 2008. Various features remain indelibly in my memory. First, the respect and warmth of our welcome from the Iraqi Supreme Judicial Council, led by Chief justice, is done on a personal level. I'm proud to say that force continues to this day.
But the welcome reflected more than personal chemistry. First, of course, it is personified by Chief justice. It reflected a deep desire to move away from the topics of past decades and to look to a future in which the rule of law would underpin improved governance.
Representative of the U.S. judiciary at a very senior level and through its world class reputation in attendance, my colleagues and I demonstrated a powerful support for this year's Human Rights Commission has already displayed pride and humility with concurrent populations for us as guests of honour at this first half a century inspired by the English. Exchanges characterised by openness and importantly trust were the natural consequence. Of direct judicial judge. Judge.
Second, the Iraqi day of the judiciary was as moving as it was inspiring. The pageantry alone was impressive, involving a parade of hundreds of judges, but an important speech by Chief Justice C.J. Symbolism, elevating the judiciary in a society. Until recently, the rule of law was defunct and the judiciary, lacking in prestige together, was highlighting the. It was even more sad, not least having with the loss of life suffered by his.
Some idea of the nature of the events we attended in 2018/19. And this year the state judiciary, which could not attend, can be obtained with photographs, which I will now take a minute to say. They to ask for assistance or heaven knows what to do with.
The first one is, in fact, this year staff for Judiciary ceremony very kindly sent to me by Mark Thompson, by Chief Justice Cedar, and you will see the formal nature of the parade and the robe judges in due course as we go through the next few slides. There of the judges robed and parading. It's very smart. It's very enjoyable. And it's also very serious and very moving. We will let female judges feature more and more on each occasion. And then there is the chief justice.
And that is in honour of the judges who have died. And annually, Chief Justice makes an important speech on this occasion. No, the final one is something I'll get to come to you. And that's the signing ceremony in the Foreign Office, which I will talk to you about. The Chief Justice is the Permanent Under-Secretary of the Foreign Office, Senior Legal Adviser, Thomson. And at least two of us who were on the visit. Let me not leave out Hammurabi. Taking a step a few years back.
We'll come back to the others in a bit. Yeah, it's a good break. I hope that gives. That's the primary reason, Shane. The nature of the ceremony, its solemn nature, and its importance symbolically. Further features of our 2008 and 2099. Based on our visit, top security was essential and we benefited from it while essentially confined to the Greens. A reminder for us of the constant pressures on the overwhelming majority of the Iraqi judiciary who cannot live their lives in full swing.
And I shall come back to this. The conditions for a successful year. We're all satisfied. Chief Justice provided the host country, each giving strong and warm support, as did others in Iraq. This will be met equally through Her Majesty's Ambassador and Mark Thompson and their embassy colleagues. We have the fullest support of the embassy, Mark Thomson being the operational lead, and without that support, our work could not be.
Today, Russia's foreign aid agencies ambassador was very visible in 40 suitable continents today, with the judiciary certainly referencing the strength of the relationships he. Coming next to the 2019 inches everything is said about the 2018 days. It continues to climb with the qualification. At least at that point in time. The security positions struck us as a little more relaxed. They have been down to six and again, we enjoyed police protection throughout.
There were, however, additional important features of the 2009 visit. To which I next turn to Guinness to visit commenced in Amman, Jordan, where we engaged with the Jordanian judiciary, including His Excellency the Chief Justice and the Justice Ministry, much assisted by Her Majesty's. Applauded at the time and the excellent, excellent deputy commissioner for resolving judicial engagements in Jordan was itself of great interest.
Extended discussion of delays and appeals and the relationship between judiciary and the legal profession. In the event Chief Justice Jordan Douglas attended the 2019 Iraqi judiciary as a guest of honour. A notable feature of this second visit was the prominence of women judges in Iraq. We've seen something. In the more recent cases and of whom we mentioned a significant number and the impressive chair of the Iraqi Bar Association.
This and another. Forward, outward looking and anxious to raise standards. Additionally, our visit took us from Baghdad to Erbil and more engagement with the KRG judiciary to the full support of the KRG government at the highest level. This is not a travelogue having outlined visits in their context. Let me turn next to the mutual benefits benefits for both the United Kingdom and Iraq arising from these visits. There are a number which I endeavour to summarise as follows.
First. So this is at the very senior level, already described, affirmed the UK as the Iraqi judiciary's trusted international top choice. Tangible results flow from this development, including an openness to respect for guidance and advice, the provision of training, enhancing bilateral cooperation on counterterrorism measures, and promising a better understanding of the workings of the Iraqi justice system. Extending the rotating acknowledgements of the importance of Transparent.
Is this compliance with fundamental human rights principles. Secondly, play from these visits the signing on 2nd October 2019 of a memorandum of understanding between the FCO through the Permanent Under-Secretary. Lord McDonald's and the Iraqi judiciary represented by Chief Justice John. Securing cooperation, promotion of bilateral engagements and knowledge sharing together with the provision of capacity and policy opportunities.
Again, the prestigious nature of the signing ceremony as of Thursday, which I've already scheduled. It's actually a convenient one. Five h. Yes, me. If you did not. And this before we move on from it, this is a photo of the eyes of 2018/19 ceremony. I think it may be the 2008 the first ceremony. And you can see its nature looked very much the same. Did you see that part of our visit, specifically in a speech to women judges in the Iraqi system?
And we did that together with our ambassador who is standing. That she's meeting Chief Justice and being received by him in the Supreme Judicial Council Building. And that is the end. So said Chief Justice.
Even untie my case on behalf of the Chief Justice, signed a letter of exchange for cooperation between the judiciary of England and Wales and the judiciary of Iraq, as that legislation was intended to be symbolic of this friendship between the judiciaries and to demonstrate the mutual determination of both judiciaries to share best practice. Looking ahead to shape society based on law and the rule of law, the aims underlying business of the country while protecting individual rights.
The security to providing a secure foundation for. Three. Strengthening efforts to combat corruption for supporting the fight against terrorism. Five. Recognising the strides achieved and intended by women in the judiciary. That the fulfilment of such aspirations takes time and is unlikely to proceed without bumps in the road is not in any way diminish the importance of direction established by these declarations.
The current movement, This Memorandum of Understanding provides of this foundation for future cooperation. Fulfilling the visit became well known in the region, enhancing the standing of the Iraqi judiciary. Chief Justice Zeidan took the lead in inviting regional counterparts from over regiments. Chief Justice Jordan the second. And I understand the subsequent Iraqi Day of the Judiciary Service.
Furthermore, the visits resulted in a subsequent London dinner and important tonight attended by Chief Justice with his Chief Justice counterparts from Jordan and Qatar. 50. If this facilitated the integration of the Iraqi judiciary in international judicial structures, they should be standing at this national forum of commercial courts. Iraq has been a regular attender since 2008.
Utilising this platform. At the most recent Suffolk meeting, Sydney Chief Justice John Smith spoke of the formation of Independent Commission reports from 2002 in keeping with Iraq, opening its economy to the world. And in accordance with. One of the theme of 2006, and he took the opportunity to underline Iraq and ratify the New York convention, which is fundamental to. Opposition to No one up to 14 of 2021 said that that conviction is not enforced in Iraq.
61. This is been followed by a significant expansion of the roles of women in the judiciary, including the establishment with the chief Justice and strong support of the Iraqi Association of Women Judges and with the United Kingdom's assistance. It's membership of the International Association. A women judges as the Iraqi chapter believed to be the first region. In his Sydney simple speech, Chief Justice alluded to the fact.
The judiciary in Iraq currently has the highest number of female judges in its history, including a female judge, pending the commercial court in Baghdad and the financial services court. It was additionally noteworthy that, as mentioned, the head of the Iraqi Bar Association at the time of. Alarming. The first woman to be important to that role.
74% saw an improvement in the relationship between the Iraqi judiciary and the Iraqi bar, a vital relationship which continues today dedicated to healing considerable room for improvement. As emphasised by the trust, understanding and engagement between judiciary and Bar are the first important. To the justices. It's the second visit involving the two stipulation engagement between the courts in Baghdad and the semi-autonomous KRG.
In addition to that visit system and the arrangement of a meeting between the Iraqi Bar Association and the Kurdish Bar Association facilitated an agreement between those two associations. As lawyers practising rights within the disputed internal territories, an agreement again supported by the Chief Justice. 916 assisted with the increased importance and improved prominence of the Iraqi judiciary in the life of the nation.
Thus, in recent years, the judiciary is and has already become a significant role as an election monitoring. Along with issue decisions relating to territorial disputes, including importantly, the Territory independence referendum. Furthermore, the visit provided the springboard for encouraging the Iraqi judiciary to publicise its work and decisions extending to English language website. It must be recognised several times describing his work in progress.
There is unfinished business that does not detract from the accomplishments I sought to highlight, but it is a reminder of the work still to be done. My impression from the outside, I know beating you up to my regret since 2019 is that corruption, terrorism has pierced very much, including judicial security remain on the scene. These are obviously great advances.
Petitioning the Iraqi courts based in Baghdad and General, have been faced with a range of terrorism cases since the rise and fall of dice. Inevitably, international observers will scrutinise critically. The fairness of these procedures. Moreover, the access, openness and dialogue between the UK judiciary and the Iraqi judiciary was forged by first dates. I do have a concern as to what happens when individuals move on.
Highlighting, to my mind, is one of the most important and as yet unfulfilled requirements. Institutionalising judicial engagement for the future in Iraq. It is my hope that the problems of corruption and terrorism will be successfully confronted so that the Iraqi courts can truly prioritise the development of law making international standards to support investment and prosperity.
It is a long road, but the Iraqi judiciary has set a course which is to follow as an outside observer community, wish it well and endeavour to provide support. The alternative to cuts to spare. The word and the wider region. You do not need me to underline the importance of the Gulf region and the Middle East generally to the UK. Nor could anyone reading this. Fail to be struck by the importance attached to law. Yes. I mean, all this is just in the statecraft of the region here, as elsewhere.
International law and justice, regardless of. Things. International commerce requires, or at least benefits greatly from courts and laws in which international investors can place confidence. Noteworthy developments include If I will be forgiven, shorten the financial freeze and in Dubai, the GFC, which are dropped in Qatar and Abu Dhabi.
It would be unwise, first of all, to fail to grasp that law reform is very much part of the major reform process underway in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia under the rubric of Vision 2030. With such developments in neighbouring states, the importance of the gains made in Iraq and the justice sector following in 2003 should not be undervalued. We now like to pull the threats together in some confusion. One. It has been demonstrable and impressive progress in the Iraqi justice system.
Since 2003. Two judicial engagement in and resulting from the 2018 2019 business has made an appreciable and significant contribution to such progress. Three. There remains the need to institutionalise judicial engagement. May I elaborate briefly on each? First? As to past 2003 progress in the Iraqi justice system. There is a very long way to go. But there should be no gainsaying the demonstrable and impressive prejudice made since the.
So anxious as to avoid overstating the contribution made to such prejudice through judicial engagement in and resulting from the 2018 2009 visits was appreciable and significant. This was indeed a significant initiative generating the results already outlined. It was, if I may say, to say, the antithesis of a mere one of judicial. Social. I acknowledge at once the qualifications to be married, says Keith Spent. But this is for short necessarily finishing snapshots at different times.
The visits did not transform my colleagues or me into Iraqi experts or diplomats. The credit for the stage of bilateral relations between the UK and Iraq belonged to the UK professional diplomats and the Iraqi counterparts. The gains achieved in the Iraqi judicial system are primarily due to the wisdom, skill and determination of the Iraqis and by Chief Justice.
All this is accepted as a concern. If you set the judicial engagement in the course of and resulting from the visits, stupidities and facilitation, the developments I have described and to my mind illustrates. Which can be achieved by judicial diplomacy or judicial engagement in the right circumstances.
And as I sought to outline the conditions for success by having an enlightened, a dynamic leader, Chief Justice, for instance, that the reforms and advances I have outlined the fullest support from an advanced and skilled ambassador and a key adviser on the ground to this extent is a case study. In that regard. Firstly, there remains the need to institutionalise judicial engagement by voting. This is a missing link which I continue to have for some time and.
Within the judiciary, with the strong support of the president for talking out the law, chief justice, and the involvement of excellent individuals, including in key roles. Much thought has been given to the strategic development of international judicial engagement.
In straight sets, the chief Justice, all the individuals closely involved in the business of whom I've spoken and moved on judicial engagement solely based on individuals is bound to be vulnerable with both the judicial and the EFCC, and if it is sought to stay in the gains to be made from judicial.
An institutional structure for the U.S., one that recognises the independence of the judiciary involved the fundamental transformation, but is backed by the presence of the FCPA, so that the start of each new engagement there is not uncertainty. Sometimes incomprehension as to the role of a judge in this case, we are just not static. He is here tonight as himself on several occasions recounted a conversation the following night. We talking about judicial services. What is a judge do?
We don't do law. Why should we have the judge coming to visit and so on. I'm not jesting. I'm not seeking to disparage anyone with questions. I can understand why people are unaccustomed to this sort of thing put. But there must be a better way of doing business than encouraging that sort of inquiry to start public engagement. Thereafter. We are normally very, very fully and warmly supported. We can do without first stage.
To be clear, institutionalising judicial engagement would not intrude on the independence or internal operations judiciary. It would instead provide a mechanism for continuity in the relationship between the judiciary and the CDA, optimising the Constitution to be made by the. To the benefit of faith in the sphere of international justice. The costs are low or minimal. The potential for gain for the UK, harnessing its world beating reputation and the rule of law still on massive.
We have to do. Thank you very.