Finding The Joy In A Pile Of Shift

You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on. Your children were tiny, and now they're not. Your parents were giants and now they're not. You were the bold young thing in the office, and now you're not. Let's call it the shift. It's as stark as the moment you can no longer read the small print, and as subtle as the slow creep of crapy lines where your cute dimples used to hang out.

Takes a minute.

We have to figure out what to do with our hands and our hearts. Now our job descriptions have changed. Parenting your parents is a whole new skill that requires diplomacy and patience and a deep understanding that no one ever wants to see themselves as helpless, watching kids who are no longer kids make childish choices, and holding your tongue realizing that you're now seen as office mum, even if you're not anyone's bloody mum. There's solidarity in the shift.

Will do what it takes.

We can't fight forever, the fact that the world has slipped an other lens over the way it views us. Once we no longer read young, We just hold hands and get on with it, whisper to each other about the weirdness, the strain, the freedoms, the losses big and small, the hilarity about how we've learnt over and again that changes the only constant, and yet every single time it's

We're all connected in the great circle of life.

Hello, I'm Holly Wainwright, and I am mid midlife, mid family, mid chaos. Thanks to you, my friends, this season of our new show, Yours and Mine is bigger than ever. You embrace sex. Don't get me wrong, I know a whole lot of us are not actually embracing sex at the moment with Perry and everything, but you jumped on our episode about libido and adventure with Leslie Morgan, and I couldn't be more delighted about that. Go tell someone about it if you think they need to hear it.

Adam Rodriguez my hero, crime scene investigator.

Stripper and look at night in shining Armor. Look how he comes to my rescue. Larry, what are there? You wouldn't never have done this for me?

It just hello. The kind of live tea, the job that, as she tells me, in this chat means one minute you're talking about foot fungus, and the next you're interviewing a rock star, and the next you're doing a TikTok dance and playing the recorder. I wanted to talk to Kylie because and we start straight off talking about this. When I got to go on the morning show to talk about mid, she said something pretty funny to me about what she hoped we weren't going to discuss on

Kylie, I was.

Lucky enough to come into the morning show and sit on the couch with you to talk about mid when we first launched, and I'm just gonna share a little behind the scenes. You said to me before we went on, you said, I hope this show isn't about fucking maniform and hot flushes and stuff. She's like so much of that.

Around and I was like, well, tell me why you felt like that.

Yeah, First up, I would have absolutely said that, I know really didn't swear.

Maybe you didn't swear. Maybe that I'm reading I probably.

Did because I would feel comfortable with you.

So one. I don't remember saying it, but it sounds absolutely one hundred percent something I would say. I love being in this era of my life. And yes, that's something that affects all of us over a certain age, isn't it.

And it's great it's getting so.

Much publicity at the moment, But sometimes I think at the expense of just chatting about a lot of other stuff, right, But I don't mind. I mean, I don't want to talk about it twenty four to seven.

But I wonder if because this is how I feel sometimes, right is sometimes I feel like and this is very much. The premise of MID is that we do sometimes talk about hormones and things.

But I don't.

Want that to be the only conversation that women our era are having, because sometimes I worry that it makes a sound like.

Yeah, well, yeah, well you know what I think. Well, I don't want to be dismissed a bit. I don't want to be defined by my ovaries. Yeah, I don't want to be defined by my minstrual cycle. I think I've got a lot more to offer and to talk about. I think we should talk about it because it affects our everyday life sometimes, but I don't want to be defined by that.

Yeah.

So I think the pendulum was too far the other way, and my god, that pendulum has swung all the.

Way over, you know, to the extreme. And look, you know, if age back like three percent, that could be good.

No, I totally know what you mean, because you want to talk about menopause talk.

No, no, no, like not not you, but like just out there.

That's great, But you know, I don't want it to be the only thing that defines women over fifty.

Well, and also it might be true because also when you're in the public eye and I struggle with this. I'm not in the public eye like you are, but you don't want to be seen as being old because it kind of pushes you into a different space where you're like, I love my work, I love my career, I love what I'm doing. I don't want to keep doing it. I don't want you to suddenly think that I'm, you know, over the hill, Holly.

I would like to be just a pin up girl, not the pinup girl for minipause, right, you know, And it's the same, you know, I think that, don't you think that's how do.

You feel like that?

Yeah?

I do, and I al I don't want to be a pinup girl either, But I'm just saying that I just don't want to be the face of menopause unless someone would like to give me five hundred thousand dollars to the face of been a pause? Is there s to drug or pill or something? And you know what, that would be great, let's talk.

Yes, I totally at it. So your career, which has been is incredible. It has been incredible. It is incredible. You've done a lot of different things, right, So you have obviously been a reporter for a lot of years, you've done lots of news, you've done lots of sport, and now you've been in living rooms on the morning show for a really long time.

Seventeen years with Larry, we started the show. People forget that we were the first ones on Channel seven to do the morning show because it was Kerrie Anne Kennerley on Channel nine had a very successful show, and then Channel seven didn't have one. So Larry and I were a foot where they put us together and we started it seventeen years ago and we're still there.

One of the things that I know people love about it is the chemistry between you two, which is amazing. I also think, and this is interesting about ambition as you get older, right, is that I don't know if this happens to you, but it happens to me sometimes that Mum and me and people like, we've got to

I know what you're saying.

I'm not on TikTok, but I would get dragged into TikTok sometimes that the station will put up.

I've got an advantage because you can dance well.

I got onto Instagram in the first place because I do love photography.

It's one of the passions.

So I could look at Instagram and go I love it for the photographic side of it, because I love taking photos, and I would take photos on the sidelines of my kids' footy matches, and I was sort of like the unofficial team photographer. So I got into Instagram for that. Is it something I did to stay relevant? Look, I think it is. If I haven't done something, I think, oh I should really do something. I do like it to a certain extent, but I don't let it run

Of that because I guess I do it.

You know on the big Telly Do, I probably don't do as much of that, and maybe I should.

I don't know.

I had to do what's authentic to me, and sometimes I go to do that and I don't feel comfy. Speaking of not feeling comfy, can I say, like being here with you, I've been really nervous about coming and doing this.

Weird to me that you would be nervous to speak to.

Me because I'm used to asking the questions, not being on this side, and I know it's a little bit confronting. So it really gives me an insight to what it's like being a guest on my show. Maybe you know, maybe I should have more empathy for my guests or something, because it's quite nerve wracking. And I don't like speaking about myself as she sits down to do a forty five minute podcast about herself, but do you know what I mean, I don't actually enjoy it, and I tend

But you know, what I was going to tell you is that because obviously, before I sit down with anybody, I'm going to go and look at lots of things about them and read lots of things about them, because I think you've always got to, you know, make sure you're giving your guest your respect. I think that your social presence, as we were just talking about, is perfect

Like that's partly thank you.

You know your job, and I think you do a very good job. And as fear feeling uncomfortable, I'm like, please don't.

I'm not even.

Comfy in a just so worried about it last night like going to say, I thought, I wonder what the hole is going to ask?

How am I going to sound interesting?

I think I hope why people like the Morning show too is that hopefully they see themselves in a little bit. And I know I get great hair and makeup done every day and that's a real treat.

But I've come from Tamworth. I was born in Tamworth.

My dad worked two jobs, you know, so I could afford a flute lesson.

I have one sister. Mum worked as well.

She stayed at home until we were old enough to you know, walk home ourselves from.

School, and then she went back to work part time. So you know, I get what it's like not to be.

Fabulous or not to be the person who was born into wealth or privilege or any of those things. I mean, I've worked. I've worked since I was seventeen years old. So people when they meet me say, oh, you're just like us. Yeah, and that's really a really nice compliment. So you're just like us, but you get good hair and make come.

I think right that people can feel that in you, and I think that. I mean, I wouldn't be telling you anything you don't know, because you're a TV professional of many years. But people can see through like I don't know, they can see through the hair and makeup because they like they would still be like, bitch, looks amazing.

Let me this eyelash off. No, I wouldn't do that.

I know you wouldn't do that.

But does that sound like I know, no entirely, so it doesn't sound disingenuous to say that about myself, though, does it because not either sure, okay, because I think it comes through also, as I said when I was sort of looking at your life, as much as you can tell anything about anybody's life from what they put in the public, that comes out.

I'll tell you, honestly, what comes out work ethic are really strong work ethic and liking what you do. Family. I'm gonna make you talk about that, and you're probably gonna cry. Family comes out very strongly, both your long marriage, your beautiful boys, and your parents and like that comes through. And also what comes through that I hope you know is like a good dose of joy, like I want

I went behind the scenes of Chicago the Stage musical, and we filmed it for the Morning show.

I love a woman who can like because you're a very good dancer.

You're on Dance with the Stars. We all know that twice.

Yeah, and very good I've never got my hands on the mirror ball, though it must have been that good.

You know, I was travesty of justice.

One hundred marks for effort and for passion about a solid forty.

Nine or actual skill. I always say, I don't care.

I say to my kids the effort scores are the ones that But anyway, what came through in that too is like a bit of joy, like you clearly like doing that right. And one of the things I hope I never lose as I get older and sometimes our confidence gets a bit rocked, is like I want to try that thing. And I wanted to ask you, like, this amazing career you've had and you still have, does it still like a fire in you? And do you still have like lots of ambitions for things you want to do well?

When we get to about this age, there's a lot of talk in my friendship group, I guess about retirement. Oh how's your super looking. Oh that's a really boring question, isn't it. And I'm like, oh, I'm not there. My head isn't even there. Yes, we should all be, as women, very mindful of super and I am, but I'm nowhere near that. I actually really enjoy going to work. I really enjoy my workmates. I enjoy the camaraderie. I enjoy seeing next Larry on the couch. We get to talk

So I won't name her.

But I was paired up with a beautiful girl at work and she was talking to me about ambition and what she should do next and all of this. But I could look at her and I went, I think you really like what you do and she said, yeah, I love what I'm doing. And she wasn't in Sydney, And I said, you're in a relationship. Yeah, I'm happily married, and do you like we living? Love where I'm living? And I said, you know what, there's nothing wrong with

I be doing next?

So I just said to her, it's nice to have ambition, and it's nice to think about the next year, but please don't forget to enjoy what you doing now. And I could say this to any of your listeners, like, there is joy in what you're doing now, and don't forget to enjoy that. And I think that has probably had stood me in good stead, because hand on heart, I have never asked for any job that I've ever gotten. They've always come to me and said, Kylie, would you

Do you know what.

Lisa Wilkinson actually had the job before I did. We were both doing weekend Sunrise together. They asked her to be next to Larry on.

The morning show.

Now what happened was that the Today's Show on Channel nine came along and approached her.

I didn't know that.

So that work came to me and said we want you to try it for the morning show, and I was flabbergast. I said, no, no, no, that's Lisa's got that job, and they went, don't you worry about Lisa, don't you worry about Let you come and we want you to try out for this. So what did I do? I went and told Lisa, said, Lisa, guess this is a very political game place come and asked me to try out, but this is your this is and she looked at me, she said, Kylie, you go right ahead, you

So even for the job I'm doing now.

I tried to palm it back off to the person who I thought had the job. So I just said, to this young girl who works for us, don't forget to enjoy what you're actually doing now, because I can tell that you're enjoying it and live in the moment. And if you're really happy in what you're doing, that will come across and that will lead to other opportunities.

You mentored yourself out of being a mentor.

I don't know what I did.

We don't need to talk.

She's now had a baby.

I rang here only yesterday must have been on my mind because I was talking to you and I rang here and I said, you're back at work now you've had a baby, and she said yes. I said that you're happy, said, I'm over the moon, and she said Channel seven, I have been so great in the you know, I'm just coming back part time. And I said, wow, it's all working out, and she said I'm so happy that She said, thank you.

We'll be back in a minute. When I ask Kylie how she deals with comparison and second getting herself in a notoriously competitive industry, do you reckon it's your personality or have you found a way to not do that always looking over your shoulder thing, because not only in media and lots of professions, and I think that when you sometimes get to an age where you're like, looking at this is what I've done, this is where I am, it's sometimes hard not to compare, contrast, worry, pusha I

A country upbringing I think has a lot to do with it. I remember Larry actually saying to me, it's in the first year or two of a spend on the show, and he said, with good happens, you don't go off, do you? And he said, but that's some taken. When something bad happens, you don't go down. So I think I'm probably steady as she goes. So probably if something amazing happens to me. Look, I'm happier if something

Don't feel that sort of you know, I'm sure there are people around who will be like, are you worried about what's next? You're like, no, I'm enjoying what I'm doing. We'll see what happens next. Yeah, but I'm not ready to wind down.

But it's probably also the reason why I'm not running some sort of multimillion dollar company or haven't written five books, or I haven't got a podcast or another reason, like, you know, I think that's probably you know, maybe I could be a little bit more proactivey things like that as well.

But I'm like, do I want to do a.

Podcast, like, probably not, because I'm talking to people two and a half hours every day anyway, So I think you have you know, but yes, maybe I should be off my ass wholly and do a little bit more and you know, have a successful clothing line.

I don't reckon. I think. I look at your life. It looks plenty busy enough to me, my goodness, like a bit of behind the scenes on a show like yours. I mean, obviously I've only been lucky enough to come to the Morning Show I think a couple of times. But the thing that's awesome about going on a show like yours is that you sit in the green room as a guest, and there could be like a dog and a fireman and a nana and fourteen children from

Today, I think we had how the spotted chet, then we morphed into tonail fungus and how mixed vapor Rob Hello vix vapor, Rob, you can use that on.

Your toenails if you've got fungus. Did you know that? And then we had a little bit.

Of American politics, you know, so yeah, you have to be a jill of all trade.

And then we interviewed.

Doctor Maksteamy Eric Dane, who's in a new movie. Ye like it's a lottery. We had a psychologist who was on our show and he was sitting on the lounge much like you did in the green room, and he's like, he did actually say that very thing.

He said, do you have to shift keys very quickly?

Don't you?

I went and I didn't even clock it. I went, yeah, now that you mentioned that, yeah, we probably do.

And also it's you know, I mean, people know this, but it's live right.

Well, my husband will tell you, Holly that I am able to shift keys very fair, very quickly. I can spin on a dime from happy to oh my god, you've left that wet towel on the floor again.

Yes, he can tell you I can spin on a dime.

I can imagine talking of your husband and your beautiful boys. So all the time that you've been doing this job, you've been raising your boys who are now. I believe one of them is living overseas.

He's about to turn twenty two. He's twenty one at the moment. He's been living in Europe now for nearly a year and a half. He's due to come home because his visa expires. He's been doing internships. And Archie's nineteen and he's at Uni.

Is he still at home with you?

Yes? Yes, And Gus.

Will be returning home from Europe because he has not only does he have no money, he's like in the minus, he's in the negative.

Yeah, so yes, or he'll be coming home to his bedroom.

And I bet that you're probably relatively happy about that.

Oh yeah, look, it'll be an adjustment. I want to ask you about that.

A lot of our listeners obviously are in the phase we well. Actually, one of the things that's interesting I think about women of our generation, we're in all kinds of different situations. Some of us have still got primary school kids, and some of us have got adult kids and stuf of us at grandma's and some of us obviously don't have kids at all.

I was thirty six when I had guessed yeah.

So and so like me, I actually had my kids quite late late in inverted commas like it's such a nonsense word.

But yes, so when the medical term is jury, actually igne, well yeah that's the horrible term.

But yeah, I.

Was forty when I had my second child, and I always remember the midwife who as much she called me because I was over you, and she goes, I've just realized you're forty, And I was like, you've just realized, like we've been sitting there for nine months. We're not allowed to let geriatric women go over the dune day. Can you come into me? And I was like, oh my gosh, I felt one hundred years old. Yeah. Anyway,

Okay, do I miss it? Absolutely.

I miss being on the side of the footy ground. I miss the you're involved in the manutia of their life. That's the great thing, but also the bad thing is the minutia of their life. So I used to have because Tony would go to work very early, I would have to be early for the morning show would you have. We were lucky enough to be able to have a nanny that would come in until I got home, So it was like from seven am.

Probably till midday. Very lucky.

Didn't have to do that rushing to the childcare, but I would rush home to relieve the nanny by mid day. Do you know what, Holly, I found a book. We had a book that would see on the kitchen bench and I would write in all the details to tell the nanny.

We were beautiful. We had a local family.

They were twin boys who were at UNI and their sister they were our nanni's so between the three of them, they still like their parents still live down the road from us.

We were so lucky, so.

I would write all the details of the day into this book.

Now. I found that book just last week.

It made me cry because it was stuff like Gus has the sport carnival today. The green T shirt I washed last night, it's hanging up in the laundry. He will need cut up oranges. We're on orange, Judy. You'll find the oranges in the bottom of the crisper. Please cut the oranges into eight and make sure you use that type of word.

But make sure the top.

I like, who was I? That was like crazy woman? It was, and every single day was like that. How lucky it was I that I had someone to do that, But I was hanging on so tightly. I could feel the tension in the pages. I have to ring up the nannies now and apologize for what a crazy woman I must have been.

But all that stuff is important.

If he didn't have his green shirt because it was house color day, that would have been a really big thing for the ten year old not.

To have his house color T shirt.

You've got like a physical representation of the very relatetionable mental load that all women are carrying.

One hundred percent.

It was my mind on the page, and it made me want to cry, and it made me want to go and hug every single woman in the office who have kids of that age, because I'm like, oh, man, I'm seeing you all over again, and.

So I was taken back.

So gradually, gradually, gradually, as they go to high school, you don't have to worry about the green T shirt anymore, although I probably did, but they kind of start to look after that themselves, so you gradually get weaned off it, until one day you wake up and you go, oh, they don't need any of that anymore.

They don't need me to write in a book. They don't want me to come to the sports carnival, you know.

And when that happened that moment, because I'm most still a little way off that yet my daughter's fourteen, but it's definitely shifted already for me, Like it's a weaned yeah process, and it's a slow like the doors closed now, the bedroom door instead of always being open, and all those things. Did you have a mouthed out? Did you handle it in a very emotionally mature fashion?

Do you know why?

I found that if you speak to your girlfriends, so you are the school mum friends, I guess, and you all go through it, and I leant on them a lot and continue to do so. I'll never forget the boys were older, they'd all gone away for a couple of days. I think they would have been old enough to drive, so they drove themselves. Maybe they were year twelve. And do you know what, those buggers they'd been away for three days altogether. They came home, dump their stuff. I'd prepared a beautiful dinner.

Welcome home, Gus. You must be starving.

You've been away for three days, and I've cooked lamb roast, your favorite.

It's like, oh no, we're going out.

Literally he was home for I think twenty four and not long enough to have a shower, dump his stuff.

And go again. They were all going out to somewhere else.

Ah, And I like it, like really upset me, and I'm went to my husband tiny.

He didn't even He's like, okay, see yeah, see ya. And I'm like, but why wouldn't he want to spend that dinner with us? He hasn't seen us for three days.

I will never forget that moment. And I like, I got the shits. I thought, you feel like you're going insane, and you feel clinging and you feel needy. And of course he went and I went, Okay, then whatever, which is really yeasure.

Whatever.

Then it was only a couple days later I speaking to one of the other mums and the same thing, of course happened to her because they're all meeting up. And she said, I did exactly the same thing, kindly, and you're what my husband said, yeah, seeya, okay, glad you had a good time. And she said, you know, to her husband, but why don't they want to And he.

Said, they're boys. Let them go now.

If I had my time over again, I would go, did you have a good time?

Terrific? See you later.

So there are times like that which I have learnt now for my second that sometimes you have to just let them do that, and.

Do you find another way to? And I don't necessarily buy into the idea it's different with boys and girls. But maybe it is because I know you're one of two girls, right, you've got two boys, yes, and I've got one of each. Actually, But friends of mine who have boys say it's like a breakup. It's like a slow breakup almost, But you obviously have to find, well, what's my new identity now now that I'm not yellow

I'm slowly figuring it out. And yes, it's an adjustment. And is there a morning period?

Absolutely? And who wrote beautifully about this was mea Friedman.

She wrote beautifully about the looks of like the longest breakup you'll ever have and the last. Actually I remember quoting me as Page once about you never know it's the last time you hold their hand as they walk across the road, or the last time you cut up the oranges, all the last time I would photograph the boys AFL games, and you never know they're the last until they're the last, and.

Then you look back. Yeah, I'm slightly figuring it out.

And because I have Tiny by my side as well, sort of turned to each other and do we still like each other? Yes we do, And so that's a really lovely thing to have. I think if I didn't have that it would maybe be a little bit hard,

So you have to have that support network.

And I think life's right, which you have obviously with work and all the things that you do. There's still a gap, but presumably it's not as you're as it could be.

And it's not about money Either's sure, going on on mini break that's about whether you've got money to do that, and I get that. But the sort of things I do as well, nothing about that. I have enaghbor two doors down, her kids, a little bit older than me. We will go walking maybe twice a week. Will text you around yep, let's go for a walk, and we'll go for a walk. Oh, I should talk about our walking club with another group of friends in our suburb.

Oh wow.

So once we clock our steps, you know, you've got that app on your phone once a month. My husband collates and we're competing as individuals and as couples. There's five couples, and it's about being active. It's not about who can walk the most. It's the person who walks the least has to walk to lunch and perhaps shout the group masch fantastic. So I've been doing that since the first of January we started. It's still going. The winter months, I've got to say those steps have dropped off.

But the five couple there's also something wonderful about walking with friends, Like it's a way of catching up that isn't as intense as sitting across a table, like having I don't know, I really you often share really interesting things when you all.

So we would you always like meet friends for coffee. Now it tends to be how are you around for a walk? So that's good for people our wage. It gets you outside. It doesn't cost a sin. So going to coffee will cost you fifteen bucks these days, yes, yeah, walking around the block love and costing.

I think after this short break we talk about Kylie's grown up sons and what she's learned about letting go, if anything, your relationship with the boys now that they are so independent. I read a beautiful profile of you in the Australian Woman's Weekly with your boy got the handsome boys if I take after their father and all poor Tony, and in it you quote this beautiful quote from I think Mother Teresa about understanding. And I have struggled with this, so I want advice about understanding that

Or all those things?

Oh Holly, And it's so hard not to. And I stumbled across that quote too late. If only I had that in year seven when I I said to Gus, why don't you join the improv, theater group, and why don't you join the debating team? All the things that I did. He did the improv he lasted a couple of weeks and he was really good at it, but then he didn't last at it and they went the more sporty route again. I wish I had that wisdom and hindsight. I think I'm really better at it now.

It, when you think they're making a bad choice. Because this is what I often struggle with now. It gives me a lot of insight into what I was like at that age and what my mom must have had to swallow her tongue. I mean, when you think they're making a bad choice, sometimes you have to just go. I guess you can talk to Tony about it, right, but you have to just go It's okay?

Is their thing?

You know?

Have you learned how to do?

I read this quite one to where you shouldn't buddy in with your opinion. You should ask the question and say, well, darling, if you did that, what would be the consequence?

But do we do that in the heat of the moment. We don't do that. We go away being so like idiot, like what, I can't believe you.

I've gone off so many times, and if I had just had the self restraint to then ask questions, that would have been.

A whole lot better.

But look, you know what, I'm also like, I beat myself up about it. I'm like, you do the best that you can do. I have so many parenting books it's not funny. Yeah, I flip through them from time to time, But when you're in the thick of it, it's really hard. And I just think, lean on the people who can support you. And you have to be very care with other mum friends not to portray confidence,

Did mum make a lot of mistakes? Probably? Do I remember them? Not really, Like I.

Just know that she's my mum and she's there for me. And that's all I want is for my kids to know that I'm their mum and I will always be there for them, and I can only be who I am. But another good quote is, and I did actually say this to us once, I am being the mum to a twenty one year old for the first time ever. I've never been mum to a twenty one year old, so I'm not really sure about this either, so let's figure it out together.

I am in that beautiful Weekly story. Also, I'm not sure which one of you boys said this. They said they remember doing a shoot like that when they were four or young and they didn't really like it, but they really liked it this.

Time around has grown up?

Is that also a bit of a challenge, Like do you think it's been a challenge for the boys to be I have parents in the public eye.

They haven't done a.

Lot as far as that's the first time they've ever been quoted. I think was in the Women's Week and they were nineteen and twenty one, so I figured that was ok.

That was okay.

Why they liked it this time is that they got Ralph Lauren suits, and the suit's worth two thousand dollars. They didn't get to keep them. I think I actually tried on He said, oh mom, this is a lovely suit. I went, yes, isn't it? And give it back please to the stylist.

You should have spilt something on it.

Yeah, Oh damn, I didn't.

So it wasn't a struggle for them, I don't think, but I've tried to. Some people are really precious about it, and that's good. I always thought I've got some access to some really good photographers through these magazines. I have got the best family album. So do you want to export your kids? No? Look, I think I've probably done one when they were little. I think was on Dancing with the Stars and they just stood there. So two thousand and nine, twenty twenty throat and.

Now you can put the pictures on the wall and happy days. Talking about your mum. She called Mark Margaret Margaret. Sorry I shouldn't call it.

We all call it Giama. That's what the boys call her, and so we all just now call a gema. I'll ring up, go high dreamer.

I wanted to talk about your parents because also something that is a very mid experience is you've got your kids. You know you're looking after your kids, and your parents are getting older. And I know you lost your beautiful dad a few years ago and you have written so beautifully about that. And also it was COVID and you couldn't go to his funeral, and that's just I can't imagine. How do you juggle that, that feeling of you know, caring for parents. Why you've got a family and I

And how so they do you call it the sandwich? Yes, yes to some extent.

My dad got sick and so Mum and Dad left the family home of Tamworth where they had lived oh since they were married, so they had lived there for forty five years in the same house, and when Dad got sick, they made the decision to move to Queensland to be closer to my sister so she could be

She loves the theater, so that's a real treat to be able to take her to.

Red carpets and opening nights and that's so great, take her shopping in Sydney and be there for her in those ways. I speak to her almost every day, but it's hard.

It's hard.

Mum's eighty five though, going eighty six, eighty six, going on sixty. She looks in very good form. I saw the post she shed.

I think it was Mother's Day and she was dancing.

Oh, that was my sister's wedding.

My sister got married recently in Bali and Mom kicked her shoes off and was dancing barefoot. She was horrified that I put a barefoot shot of her dancing Like the dancing was fine, but Kylely, I haven't got my shoes on.

Mum. We were on the grass. That was fine. It was in Bali, it was beside the pool and she.

Was dancing with the kids. So she loves her grandchildren. She's got four, my two boys, my sister's two girls. She loves them to bits. She is there for them. Sometimes she's speaking to my children even when I'm not. Not I'm not speaking to them, but she'll say, oh, I spoke to Gus.

You're saying what he rang you. He's in Berlin. He rang you, he didn't ring me.

So I love that she has that relationship with her grandkids, and she's obviously very close to my sister as well. It can be a juggle, I guess, but again it's just that you do what you do. You do.

It's hard, I.

Think if you're away. I mean, obviously my situation is different again because my parents are in England so very far.

It's very difficult. My girlfriend's in the same situation. She feels that pool immensely.

And my brother's there but I'm here.

Okay, So do you support your brother, Holly.

So that's what I'm trying to do at the moment. Is like, because they're getting to that age where things are beginning to happen? Is it inevitable? I think it's very difficult. Like your parents sound like very capable, independent, like hard work people who the idea of being cared for or is.

Like their worst nightmare. Oh horrible.

So knowing that that's what's ahead, you know, it's either happening or it's about to happen, is very hard for them as well. And so being far away, you know, I reach out to my brother about it a lot, but I worry and I panic about what will happen when this happens and that happens, and shouldn't a daughter be there? And there's guilt. I don't know what have you got to teach me about that?

Kind I think you support your brother.

I think it's really important to do that because he's on the ground and as capable as your parents are, they will be leaning on him. So it's important that you help prop him up as well. And I've tried to do that for Stace, so I'm not sure. I'm not sure if she thinks I would, but it's you know, you take the phone calls and you make sure you ring.

Her as well.

It's really interesting to know my brother in law is a beautiful man, and I spoke to him about this recently and he said, there's lots of grief that goes through for older people. So Mum would be grieving Dad's loss. She's still miss as dead terribly, but then also grieving maybe the loss of her license or the loss of you know, there's many milestones that happen when you reach

You go, oh, well, that doesn't matter.

Let's the same as if you said I'm feeling really sad about your daughter. She's not in you twelve, but my I'm feeling really sad about my daughter finishing year twelve and someone goes, well, it's okay, she's still da da and you just want to be heard, you want to go no, I feel really sad. So I think it's really important to listen to them and support them and let them feel all the feels, because there's nothing

I think that's very good advice.

And when your brother rings, something goes, Mom is driving crazy and you go, what's your brother's name?

Tom? Tom? Oh, Tom, that must be really harpy.

Tell me about it, well, Mum, so I think it's really important And Tom, yeah, oh well Tom, if you just did this, Tom, And if you did this Tom, listen to Tom and go I hear you, Tom, What can I do to help out? He'll go, oh, nothing, I'm fine, and he'll feel better because he's been able to unload on you because he can't unload on Mum.

I can't imagine how difficult it was for you that period where you were grieving your dad and the borders were closed because Queensland obviously we weren't allowed to go up there if you're in New South Wales and that must have been unbelievably difficult to get through. You have already spoken about it. Sounds like you have a very solid partnership.

We've been married for thirty five years.

This is amazing.

But again, I hate that hashtag couple goals, yeah, because.

I write something nice and someone will say that and I go, oh, that's really lovely.

But oh, it's so not that.

Like you know, when I'm yelling at him about the towel on the floor, hashtag couple goals, you know that's also got to be included, you know what I mean?

So is he your biggest support?

Though?

Is he the person? Again?

Someone once said to me, we're talking about relationships, and it's like, if something good happens to you, who do you want to tell? And he'd be the first person I want to tell. Or if something bad happened, who do you want to tell first? And he's my person, So if you can, you know, it's not oh I want to tell my girlfriend. So I think in a couple, that's what.

I want for my boys.

I would love them to find someone in their life who's going to be your person, and it's not that one person has to be everything to you, but I think they've got to be on your side, and I think I have to support you. There's also like, oh my god, there's there's good times and bad times and life it can be shitty, but life can be good and it can be shitty, and it can be good and shitty all.

In one day or all in one hour.

Come in.

I just think you have to it. We met. I was married two days after I turned twenty two.

That's amazing.

I was engaged when I was I think I was twenty so I was just really lucky. I obviously met my person when I was young. Where did you meet in Tamworth? Tony worked at the local newspaper and I worked at the local TV.

And was he from Tamworth too or was he a blowing I look.

Originally from Adelaide, but had lived in Tamworth since he was fourteen, so I had done all his high schooling years in Tamworth at the same high school I went to. But he's seven years older than I am, so we weren't at high school together. But he once came and gave a talk at my year eleven journalism class. I was on the school newspaper, and Tony was the star graduate of the Tamworth High School Kohala newspaper.

I love it.

And because he had made the big time by being a sub editor at the Northern Daily Leader, Tamworth newspaper, he was brought back.

Into the classroom.

Look, he's our star student, Tony Gillies. He used to be at Tamworth High School and now he works on the local newspaper.

Let's hear it from mister Gillies.

Yay.

I love that.

And then what I would have been like sixteen, and then it turns out how many years later I end up marrying him?

Not that I oh god, no, not that I me mayor or whatever. I would meet him.

So if I was sixteen, then I would meet him sort of three years later.

And I know you would hate this question because, as you've just said, it isn't like this. But what happens to a lot of people is that, you know, a lot of things change between then and now, and it's not always easy to stay on the same page. Oh God, So do you think there's a secret or do you think a lot of it's luck in choosing that person at that time?

Oh? Holly. I don't know.

Maybe it's luck, Maybe it's you're a bill to tolerate. Maybe I have a high tolerance, Like you've got to tolerate a lot of stuff in a person. Right you're living in the same house. We've lived together in the same house for thirty five years.

I think it.

Look, it's understanding. It's tolerance, it's not walking out when the going gets tough, but it's also choosing the right person. Chinye is a good person. We had shared outlook on life. Do you know what that was fifteen years before we had kids. Yeah.

I wonder if that's also really helpful at this time on the other side of the kids.

Maybe that was by design.

I didn't want kids straight away, like I got married when I was twenty two. There's no way I wanted kids straight away. So we were happy, really happy in our careers. This comes back to the loving what you do. He's passionate about journalism. I'm passionate about journalism. We both loved our work and we were really happy working until I did the Sydney Olympics in two thousand.

That was a goal. Yeah I did that, and then we oh, we should think about having kids. Now.

I had two miscarriages before then falling pregnant with Gus, so there was a little like maybe I would have had kids maybe when I was thirty three if things had gone right, but.

They didn't, and so I don't know, maybe that's why we've lasted.

I don't look it's it's a crap shoot, like it's a it's a like, you know, let's roll the dice and see how we go. I do think you have to have that shared outlook on life, shared moral compass, and be tolerant, I guess I.

Think, and a lot, you know what, You've got to love the person like I can still at time and go I love you.

And you like going away for the weekend with him, and you like hanging out with them on a Saturday night, and you like that stuff sometimes.

Sometimes like and sometimes I'm like, oh, I am like over you like and I'm going upstairs to bed. But no, look, I think you know you have to look at them and go, I still love you after all of these years.

I often think that when you get to this grown up age that we are, you've also been through a lot of shit together, right, So you know, as you just said, you've been through miscarriage together, you've been young together, and then losing parents and all the many little scary moments with kids, and it's like how you learn a lot about somebody and how they react in all those moments and if they're going to be there for you. And I think that obviously where you are now, you know that so solidly.

Oh yeah, he's not going anywhere.

I'm not going anywhere, So we're stuck with each other for hopefully a lot of years to come.

Do you think your parents were really good role models for that too?

Do you think that's well, yeah, they were married for I think jashi fifty five years.

I think they get to fifty six something like that.

Yeah, And I look at Mom and Mom just yeah, like when my sister got married, for example, earlier this year, like Dad wasn't there for that, And I know Mom felt that keenly. So when big things happen in our family, Dad's no longer there for it, and so I know she feels that we all do. But you know, we're all there with our husbanans and you know, grandkids now have partners, So I know Mum feels that keenly. But Dad lived to be ninety one. So they had many,

You did the most beautiful thing that you posted about that you took her a sapphire that he'd bought her when they were young. I mean put it in a ring. I could cry my hide out and reading that, Yeah.

What that sapphire had been wrapped up in that little bit of tissue for fifty years, like for so many years, and they just never got around like that's just not in them to spend money on getting that made into a ring for mum. Do you mean that just wasn't probably part of either their budget their inclination. They would always spend the money on us going to a school camp rather than mum getting a sa fire ring set.

So, yeah, she was going through some stuff and she dug it out.

I went, Mum, it's time we got that sapphire that dad he got it for her from Inverell.

The sapphire capital of Australia.

All those years ago, he was working on the road doing something, sales or something, and it had sat in mums draw for all those years, wrapped up in a bit of tissue. So we got it out and we got it made into that ring and she wears it every day.

That's such a beautiful story and such a beautiful sort of full circle moment too, I think, because you can do things for her now.

Oh yeah, that's interesting, isn't it.

Yeah? I know.

Is that something that you often think about as you watch your boys grow up, that like the shift? Yeah, the shift?

Oh, the shift has happened with Gus. So I went and saw him in Vienna earlier this year and I was the one, you know, fumbling on the tram and.

Stuff like, oh where does this card go? What zone are we?

And he's like oh, And it was the first time really I had felt the switch. He was kind of like, you know, mothering me, if you like, and you know what, it felt great. It's like, you know what, I don't have to be in control of this. He's actually he's got my back. He's got my back, and he's the one showing me around this city and doing the thing and knowing how to operate the tram and everything.

And oh it felt great.

I just sat back and went mind it was still my credit card, that it was.

My credit card that was getting pulled out.

Of course it was yeah, him, Mom, this is a great new restaurant that I've heard about.

Really okay, oh, grall, this is great us whitch here?

I saw this on Insta and then yet yeah, here's the bill and as it gets pushed towards it, I've.

Always wanted to go here. Yes, it's fabulous. How fabulous is unbelievable? One last question about we really finished?

We are nearly finished. Well, I hope I haven't been boring to your listeners.

You're so not boring, But I wanted to ask you on my thing about your beautiful mom and a beautiful ring. Do you feel like your life has been very different like to her life? And do you think at this point in your life that it's very different to hers? And that beautiful post about the ring? You said they've always put us first, They did everything for us. Do you feel like you've been able to live more for you?

Wow, I've never really thought about that.

To think that mum led any sort of unfulfilled life or whatever is not right. She has lived a very full life and loves her family very much. Have I done more things than Mum? Sure, I've traveled a lot more. I've done seven Olympic Games for the seven Network, so I've done more things. But at the end of the day, is it the things that matter or is it the way you lead your life and the people in it. So I think Mum would say to you, Holly, that she has led a very full life, she loves her

I guess.

So I've lived probably a different life in some respects, but in some way I'm still that kid from Tamworth who grew up in the weatherboard house which had one toilet, one bathroom, and that's how I judged my life.

I think has your mum always really encouraged your I mean I was asking you about whether your life is really different to her as a new Harry rightly made it very clear that there's no better or worse than this or this, no like, the values are absolutely the same. But I wonder if your mum was a big cheerleader for you in your career and you chasing dreams and all those things.

This was I think a pivotal moment in my life, and it comes down to my mum. My husband had been transferred to Sydney. I thought I better get a job. I was working at the local TV station in Tamworth, so I applied to Channel seven for a job. Chinese transfer was called off and he had to stay in Tamworth. But I got the job at Channel seven. So then I'm in this quandary.

I was thinking.

I was twenty eight at that point. I was thinking, if I don't take this job now at Channel seven, I may never get to Sydney. But hang on, my husband's transfers called off. He's going to be in Tamworth. So I remember sitting with Mum, going, Mum, what am I going to do? No, I want this job. It's Channel seven. Tiny will end up in Sydney eventually, like that's happening. It just got called off temporarily, and she said,

It's very wonderful. It's also back to that quote about your child's flight were be yours? Like your flight wasn't hers, you know, and it took you away from her at times, but she knew.

That you had to do that. Yeah, like fly and chase your dream.

And I think that just brings us to where we started about your values and what's important to you are exactly those things. Family, connection, people around you and doing something you love right.

Yeah, absolutely, Like if the television thing all ends tomorrow, would I miss one hundred percent, but I'd cry about the living friends behind, perhaps not leaving a profile behind, so it would be always be about the people.

It's always got to be about the people.

I think. I'm sure that's beautiful. Thank you, Kyle, Well, thank you for having me.

Mids.

I really hope you liked that conversation.

I really did.

You could probably hear that I got a bit emotional talking to Kylie about her parents being separated from the people you love as they become more vulnerable is something close to my heart, obviously. But I know a lot