You're listening to a Mother mea podcast.
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on. What if you've always wanted to live somewhere else and life hasn't given that to.
You yet, but the pool won't be wished away.
What if you did it once before and you remember the freedom, the treat of the new, the energy released by fresh places, by a different culture, a true restart. What if you're looking at your post work act and you're thinking, would the pressure be less somewhere else? Would the joy be multiplied? Would my dollar go further? Would
my wanderlust be sated? If I lived overseas Asia, perhaps where many post work ossies are living for chunks of time on retirement visas or long stays, swapping the suburbs for seaside apartments, or Portugal or Spain or Mexico.
What would it be like?
Would you be would you be safe? Would you feel like a new version of yourself? If you've wondered about any of this. As another one of our bonus episodes about post work life in partnership with Aware Super, We've got someone we'd like you to meet Maggie Lazarre is American and three years ago she moved alone to Panama in Central America, and she was so bombarded with questions of how she did it, because she's started social media accounts men talking publicly about how much she enjoys it.
She kept getting asked by everybody how she retired alone to another country, and so she started a community called single Women Retiring Abroad. And whether you're single or not, and wherever you might be dreaming about heading off to when you don't have to go to work every day, you're going to like Maggie's story and her energy and her honesty and her tales of what's working, what's not, what she loves about her choice, and what she'd do differently.
So got some great advice for the questions to ask yourself.
Before you make a big decision like this.
Of course, considerations for Australians considering a move like this are a bit different to Maggie's, and you'll find some links to relevant info in the show notes about that. But look, I think you're going to be inspired and entertained by Maggie all the same. We spoke to her in Panama just last week. Well, I wasn't in Panama.
I was in Sydney. But as you'll hear, Maggie very much was So can you tell me a little bit about what brought you to where you are now, a little bit about what you were doing in your pre Panama life?
Okay, Well, I am in an advanced practice nurse. I've been a nurse for over forty three years. I was, and then I retired about a couple of years ago.
Can I be rude, Maggie and ask you how old you were when you retired. I was sixty two, right, great, So that's that's quite a good young age.
Right, and in US term, that considered early. But I wanted to continue doing some business and I thought I would retire in Africa somewhere. So I went and did some scoutings over there, and I was like, I'm not feeling it. I had come to Panama to see the Canal. It was a bucket item list, and I fell in love with the country when I came. I remember vividly sitting in a boat. I had gone on a trip, and then I sat there in the boat and I
was like, this is nice. I liked the way I felt in that space so when I went back to Africa and did some research, I checked the healthcare system. I was like, I'm not feeling as good as I did when I was in Panama. So I returned to Panama a couple of times, and each time I came back, the food, the weather, the people, I was like, I really like this place. So that's how I ended up in Panama. It was a connection to the place, the people,
the culture, and also the closeness to the States. So I didn't feel like I was I had to travel like fourteen hours for my kids to come see me, So it wasn'tn easy transition.
Can I ask you that, when you were working as a nurse for all those years and you know, raising your kids and all the things, did you always dream that you wanted to retire abroad? Like was the seed that you knew it wasn't going to be in the US? Was that always there? Can you remember how that started for you?
Actually, No, I don't think I ever thought of retiring abroad. I thought I would travel a lot, because I've always loved to travel. But it was just, you know, things were happening politically, the country was changing, and it was like, well, maybe there is an alternative somewhere else.
Did you know other women who had done it, who got and retired overseas to a brand new country.
Well, I watched a lot of YouTube videos and you know, and going to Africa, I met a bunch of people who had retired there or younger people who had just gone there for business. So I had become more you know, acclimated to the idea. It wasn't so foreign. So when I decided to quit my job early and to travel around and scout, and then it was like, oh, I can do this. Then you start doing research in terms of cost of living, lifestyle, then it became more acceptable
in my mind that I could do it. But it wasn't something that, oh, I've been to Panama twenty years ago and I'd always want to return. Some people have that story. I don't.
It's interesting that I think sometimes the world can think that your adventures are behind you when you're one, you're older. You know that like traveling to exotic, exciting places is for young people and all that kind of stuff. But that is clearly not the case. I mean, obviously, what you've done in setting up single women retiring abroad is tapped into the idea that you can keep having adventures and have the life you want no matter what. And in fact, this might be the perfect time to do it.
Would you agree exactly? And you know, when you're doing some research, Even when I was considering Panama and other places, there is a study that was done by university and they find that people are starting to think about the
possibility of retiring abroad in their fifties. So I think it's becoming more acceptable that you can have the lower cost of living, you can have the adventure, then you can have more money to travel, you know, if you're not bugged down by you know, aging parents for example, or healthcare system where you feel like you know, being treated right. So I think there are a lot of factors that converge to make the idea of retiring abroad a little bit more palatable to a lot of us.
What did your family think of the idea?
You know, that's the.
Question I get a lot, and I tell them I've always been a free spirit, you know. I remember when I sold my business early nineties, I took a couple of years and traveled around the globe. So when I was ready, they were like, oh, that's Okay, we'd already thought you'd go somewhere. Yeah, right, So I did not have the struggle that some people have in terms of telling their families and getting resistance from that.
Now, and do you it was kind of the thought of setting up like single women retiring abroad. Do you think that there are women who would love to do this for you know, their post work life, but they might feel worried about doing it on their own if they're not in a couple. Is that kind of the idea is to give support and encouragement to women like, no, you can still go and do this without.
Exactly And I think for me, I tell people I do some consultation now, but I tell them you need to know your why why are you doing it? Because to me, if you have a strong why, whatever challenges you encounter is going to bring you back to the reason why you wanted to do this in the first place.
And my why I want to share it with you is that as a clinician and having been or experience a healthcare system for my patient on the other side, as a provider, I just did not want to age in that system of being in a facility and having people take care of you. I absolutely reject that in my mind. So I wanted to create a model of
aging and that's what's why is about. It's creating a module of aging abroad that is affordable and sustainable on my turn, meaning I want to be at home and if I need some help, the help comes to me, versus me being forced to enter a facility. So once I did that and I crystallized that, then I saw talking to women, I saw watching videos and people were asking the same questions. They're like, you know what, my social security is this much. I don't think I can
live comfortably in the US because of that. Are there any options? And then a little light bulb went off in my head and I'm like, well, you know what, I did it and I'm here. Therefore I can help other women to follow in my path. Yes, you can do it. I'll show you exactly how to do it. And that's what single women is. And then now on the ground, we have a sisterhood where we're trying to support each other. So it feeds my soul for the
need to be creative, to always have goals. That retirement doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and try to play golf and play pickable. I don't do any of those.
Not your saying. It's interesting because obviously here in Australia we have a different kind of health system, right, so we have more support for people, no question. However, the cost of living is, you know, just like in America, just like in lots of other places, means that for many many people who thought that maybe their retirement funds here we have a kind of this thing called superannuation where you pay into it through your working life and then you get access to it later. But you would
imagine like what that can buy you. Now, the lifestyle that that can afford you that you maybe have been dreaming of has changed a lot with how expensive everything is. So I think that in Australia that's why a lot of people might be looking to parts of Asia or
other places to do this. But obviously doing this at this stage of life, and this is what you're just talking about, is your considerations of choosing a place are quite different than they would be if you were backpacking at nineteen, right, So how do you go about finding out whether or not what you just described is possible in country?
You don't know?
So you know what the health system is like, like, what are the main considerations you tell women to look into to choose their place.
I have developed what I call it's an assessment tool. I tell people, the assessment tool is going to say this is me, these are my likes and dislikes in retirement. If I were to choose the ideal place, what I would I be looking for? Is it cost of living, cost of health care. And for us doing my research, we have three main things that we look for. The cost of living, it has to be less than what you had wherever you're coming from. Otherwise, what's the point
cost of health care? That is very prohibitive for people in my country where people are making choices between buying medications or buying food right. And then the third thing is the presence of an expert community. So to me, I tell these people know your why and if you have these three things and we have some other factors, you know, a distance, weather, language, all the things that it's like it is it a deal breaker or can
you work through it? Right? So those three things you must have, especially because of our age group, healthcare has to be on the top of the list. You have to reduce your cost of living and I said, you don't need to be a pioneer. You want to have a community that can embrace you and support you.
And is that what you found in Patama? Is the Are there a lot of people doing what you're doing.
Some people are doing things, But I think our group is unique in the sense that I found my niche early and I find that that is something that I was blessed to find, you know, I was I had clarity that this was this group that I was going to focus on and provide services for. Other groups are like more social groups. You know, they go here on trips and stuff, which is but I'm not the kind of person that just wants to go go go here,
go here, go there. I need to have something of essense that I feel like I'm contributing, I'm helping, I'm building. So I've created community here, our group of sisters we call the SWAT Sisters. I started that, so we all here. You're in the hospital, we got you. You need somebody to translate for you, we got you. I speak Spanish, I teach Spanish. So if it's not there, you create it. But I think women need to be clear, and I'm like, are you heavy in debt. That's no way to come
here with a lot of debt. Right, do you have aging parents that you're responsible for? Those are not things that we can get away from. I don't have that situation. But if somebody has aging parents and you're not going to be able to relax and enjoy retirement if you have to worry about that and the guilt won't let you enjoy your retirement. So when we come, we go through all that, and I always tell them maybe not now,
maybe maybe a little bit. You know, you need a little time to clear out your finances and try to see what other options you have for your aging parents, your home. It's a big decision.
After the break, Maggie shares a moment when she knew moving abroad was the perfect decision for her, and another that made her question whether it might have been a mistake.
Stay with us.
Tell me a time. You know, when you were telling me before about when you chose Panama, you were sitting on this boat and you were like it felt right. Tell me what life is like in Panama. On a day when you're like this was the best choice ever? Like why, tell me a great one? And then I want you to tell me because nothing is perfect. Of course, then I want you to tell me something that you know has been a little bit challenging.
Well, I think the other day I was telling someone I was took the metro because I don't drive here, so and then I'm blessed that they have a metro system and a good bus system and Uber is super affordable. So I remember I was in this little area that isn't a little bit busy. So the energy of the place is Panama. So you get off the subway, somebody's trying to sell you trash bag for your kitchen, and
then there is a stand with avocados and pineapples. I can go there and get that and get right on the train to get home.
And I was.
Walking there and I said, this is still a good place. The feeling of feeling comfortable that you can blend in, that you don't stick out, and people are happy, it rubs off on you. So for me, it's almost every day I love to get out and just in there with the people. I'll sit on the bus and listen to the conversation because I speak Spanish. I hear these little old men talking politics, and I'm sitting there, I'm like they probably don't think I understand it. That is
always a good thing for me. It kind of reinforces every day that I made the right decision. And it's been two and a half.
Years, so that's fantastic.
And in a difficult situation when I got robbed two years.
Ago, tell me about that.
But just I mean, not that I want to dwell on the negative, but I imagine that there'll be women listening to this who one of the things they would worry about about making a move like this alone is they might worry about security or safety or feeling unsafe. Right.
But I think for me, being a savvy traveler, it was just my carelessness. I was in an area that was very touristy and you know that, and I watched so many videos about people get pick pocketed and those double deckor buses and everything. And I was working with a friend. Again, I'm in the zone. I'm excited. I was wearing a backpack. That was the first no no. If you're going to wear a backpack, wear it in the front, right, And I had right and I had
my wallet with everything in it. Mistake number two. You don't need to carry everything in your wallet when you are out. So he bumped into me and he said, excuse me, and he put this hoodie on and the cameras we have cameras couldn't see his face. He was a professional, but I had to go through that. But I had to do the police and uh, you know, have no money and trying to follow report. But I did it, and I went to the bank and the bank reimborced my money. That was the first thing that
reimbursed my money. So I tell people, don't make the mistake that I made, and everybody will chime in, well you should no better, oh dull. I'm like, yes, you're right.
But you got through it, you know, like it happened, and it didn't make you get on a plane home. It made you go, okay, well we'll deal with this like it's okay.
And for them to understand that you need to have this police report in hand. This is not a digital place where you could say I'll email you this, email you that. So understanding the culture that it's different from what you used to is the first step in relaxing and acclimating here.
Up next, Maggie opens up about the emotional challenges of adjusting to life abroad and living on around. You've talked about this amazing community you've built, but I imagine some people would think, Oh, I would miss my family. I might get lonely. What do you tell people about the emotional adjustment to being somewhere different by yourself.
One other thing I tell women, I say, if you've never traveled, you've never left your family, you've never left home, You're probably going to have a heart of a time. If you are one hundred percent responsible for everything, whether it's your aging parents or your teenager or your adult child who refuses to leave, or you don't allow to leave, it happens. Be hard for you. If you're not a hands off kind of person. And you're not, you can't
think on your feet. You know, if you if you get into a situation you got to say okay, one, two, three, watch neck boom and be able to make decisions like that. It's going to be hard for you. With families. I tell people, if you're really close, make sure you budget for frequent trips back. Yeah, because I remember when I moved from one state to another. Oh, I was so homesick. I left the northeastern part of the US, and I
moved south. My first Christmas, it was eighty five degrees and I felt that I was in the twilight zone.
You mean, no snow, no farther bliss.
What is this? I felt so sad. So I went home and then it was like ten degrees and the snow was this high, and I'm like, okay, I know why I left. Now I'm good.
This is a familiar story to me, Maggie. I left England to come and live in Australia. I'm like, yeah, no, this is the hot Christmas is a strange, but better than snows.
But I think going back and forth is a nice compromise for some people just to kind of check in the check on you. Oh are you doing okay? Well we're okay, you can come visit, and then it kind of set off after a little while. But some people tell me point blank, I couldn't leave my dog, I could leave my family. I Will says, I'm so glad you have clarity.
Yeah, it's not for everybody. Yeah, it's not for everybody.
You need to have clarity, right, but it.
Is for people who have got that as you say that independent free spirit, It's like.
Yes, and want to explore you know, because the language could be a good challenge for some people. Of course, it's not easy to feel people talking, you know, and you can't understand right, so that should weigh heavily on your decision as to where you go.
You already spoke Spanish, I assume I did, so that was also part of.
That made it easier for me. And I said, you can't compare your situation to mine because I had this going for me. Yeah, so so you consider an English speaking country?
Yeah, for sure.
This has been an amazing conversation. I guess I'd like to ask you, Baggy, without its sounding too brutal, do you think this is a Is it for you a permanent move? This is where you're going to be now? Is that how you see it? Or do you like it's year by year?
Like?
What? How do you look at the future?
You know? I spoke to a couple of my lady sisters the other day and this one said, oh, I just signed a three year list or I just signed a five year Listen. I'm not wow. I just don't feel because of my spirit of adventure, I don't know if this is going to be the end, but for me, I'm not planning on going anywhere, but I kind of like to keep my options open because I don't know what might happen in the future. I might want to
explore some other countries. So now I can't even I told the sisters, I'm like, I'm not going to sign it to your lease. I don't want to feel tight like that. Some people want to buy, and I'm like, I don't want to buy a place because then I feel like I'm attached and I can't move. I like to be mobile.
Yeah, but you don't imagine going back to the US. You don't know, that's not what you imagine.
Now, that would be by choice, and you know, not to get into the details of the stuff that everybody knows what's going on. Nobody that I know here would willingly go back. Yeah, yeah, it you just never know.
I Have you enjoyed another one of these special episodes of mid where we're talking about that next phase of life, that post work era, and whether you're thinking about moving to a farm or moving abroad light Maggie being.
Prepared gives you the choice.
Follow the link in our show notes about Aware super for more about that and for advice for Australians thinking about retiring overseas like Maggie. We'll put a link in our show notes for good places to start for help and information. The executive producer of this episode is named A. Brown, The producer is Charlie Blackman, and there's been audio production from Jacob Brown. Will see you next time.