You're listening to a mother mea podcast. Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on. Hello, my friends, I'm Holly Wainwright and I am mid midlife, mid family and mid post work fantasy. Today I'm bringing you a different kind of conversation, one with three couples who all live together. But please don't call them swingers. We'll get to that in a minute.
We said we're going to drop you a few little extras in Mid this season, and this is one of those. As you might have noticed, this season of Mid has been supported all the way through by a ware super. Now, if you're like me, you might switch off a little bit at the word super. But then, also if you're like me, and as the year's click over, you are starting to wonder about what a post work life might
look like. Yes, a post work life is what I'm calling retirement, because retirement can sound a bit passive, a bit retreating, a little bit like giving up, when actually this third act can be anything but retiring. Also because for plenty of us, giving up work entirely is not going to happen, maybe because of necessity, maybe because you love your work and it gives you meaning and energy. Maybe rather than not working at all, you just want the freedom to pick and choose when and weather you
put the grind behind you. But maybe, of course you are dying to ditch anything and everything to do with work and focus on doing everything else whatever blows.
Your hair back.
But as part of these seasons of mid we're bringing you conversations with women who are doing their post work lives a little differently, not because you're there yet Mids, but for a little future in slow. If you've ever said to your best mate that when you're old you're going to live together, build a compound, or tear up
the over fifties lifestyle village, this conversation's fee. It's with two women called Eve Grisbowski and Heather Bolster, two of the six people who are all living together on a beautiful property on New South Wales's Mid North coast. These three couples have been friends for years, and, like a lot of good mates, over the years, they'd go on
holiday together every year. On one of those trips long ago, they began to talk about how they all saw their next phase and weather pooling their resources would make everyone's third act a lot more fun. This is the kind of conversation that women have with their girlfriends all the time. They say, when we're old, we should live together. Back
to the sleepovers, back to the girl's trips. But how many of us might actually do it well with the right planning, As Eve and Heather are about to tell us, it's possible. So how the hell did they do it living in a purpose built house and a beautiful part of Australia. Well, they're going to tell us, and they're going to give us advice about how we could too. Heather and Eve, thank you so much for joining me today. Now, lots of people say that they would like to live
with their friends when they get older. What took the idea that you guys have from an idea to a reality?
Good question.
We started as friends and we would get together. In particular, we got together around Christmas joenerally for a week or two and they were really sublime times.
How long has it been that you guys have been hanging out together as a group.
That was early in the century, so maybe two thousand and one, two thousand and two, two thousand and three like that. So that was the idea part of it, and then what took it to reality was, well, you know, one hundred meetings for one thing. We left our we left our last holiday having kind of generated the idea and talked it through a lot, and then we thought, well, we'll sit on it for a few months and see
if anything incubates in this. And then sure enough, a few months later we said, well, let's get together and talk about it again. So that was kind of meeting number one.
And this is the six of you, right, So tell me who's in the shatters?
I have apart our husband and that's Daniel. So there's three couples that are the shutters. Probably at some point you need an explanation of what is a shudder? Yes, and then Heather and Rick a couple, and Michael and Judy are the third couple.
And so the three couples would go on these holidays that you're talking about, and then one year you were like, you know what, maybe this would be it. Our six people is quite a lot of people to get to agree to see things the same way, to want to commit to have the same vision. Was it difficult for everybody to get on board or.
We discovered that numerous times you've been looking through the keyhole.
Well, yeah, yeah, there were, I mean everything, just you and your partner. It's difficult to come to agreement about things. So when we started looking for property, looking for a place we were going to live, it was, you know, where do we want to be in the country or in the city, and how far in the country, and do we want to go north or south? And do we want you know, a little a little spot in a small town or do we want a massive acreage?
And we had to work through all those decisions. And so the process of finding a place took us about a year and a half, and we looked at everything from little city lots to two hundred acre two hundred acre properties and we started to get an idea of what we didn't want and what we liked.
And am I right in thinking that one she decided you guys were gonna live communally, I suppose is that you rented a place together to try it out in the city first.
Yes, and one of us, Judy, remarkably found this place and it had three levels to it. It was a waterfront property in Sydney, and it meant that each couple could have a separate space like that, which is what we have now that we've purpose built the house.
Obviously it went all right because you made the move, But how did you decide to and how did you choose where to go after that?
Well, we'd been looking a number of places. We'd looked at a lot of places. Every week we would go out somewhere, we'd find something and research it. This area we liked. We we'ld gradually gravitating here, and we had a friend who lived on the island and she invited us to stay at her house, and we thought, well, this is all right. It was a beautiful place. And then something came out for sale here and we thought, well, we'll have a look at it. You tell the story from there, Eve, Oh.
Yes. And the property that we got to look at with the real estate agent was four acres three and a half acres. It was very beautiful and it had a big green shed on it, and we thought that even if we didn't decide on a permanent move here, that it was a good investment. We got it for a good price, and that that shed could be the place where we got to come and have our Christmas holidays,
Easter holidays. We called it the tow in the water, right, and every step that we took on this journey, even though it seems like a really radical thing for you know, retirees to do move in together, was very well prepared for. So it never felt like we were at a huge risk that we could always recover if, you know, like it didn't work out.
It sounds like exactly the right way to do it, because this is a big commitment. Once you've decided that you're going to build a house on this beautiful spot, that's a massive financial commitment, a lot of logistics involved, So it's obviously sensible to do it in a step through way. But did you all fall in love with the place and was it an easy ish decision to build the house there?
I would say so, yeah, Yeah, it was not without its challenges. You know, I think we all got cold feet about it at some point and it needed to push ourselves or push each other back into the a relook at what we were doing. Because that was the big step. We know it was going to be a sizeable house and a sizable investment and a direction for a whole the rest of our lives. So that was huge. And then once that DECEI was made and thoroughly made. Then then we just we just got into it. We
just slid into it. We got the we found that just exactly the right designer and exactly the rate builder. And Rick and I retired the earliest of the lot of us. And so we were up staying in the green Shed, which was nice, nicely furnished little you know, it was almost a cottage, and we stayed there while the house was being built, and then as soon as it was done then I shall on the day that it was done, even Daniel moved up. And then a year or two after that, Michael and Judy moved out.
Fully I'll be back with Eve and Heather in a moment right after this break. When I have this fantasy with my friends, and I know, as I say that, a lot of people do we go, Oh, maybe we'll live on a compound, you know what I mean, maybe we'll have like little homes close together. How did you make that decision? Was it because of the way that you'd lived when you were in Sydney that you would
live in one big house together? And what does a house that is going to be three different couples home need to have to make that work.
Obviously, it's probably different for each group that would decide to do this crazy thing, but in our case, we have the most. Sometimes people call this an intentional community, I think is too formal a name for what we do and how we are.
Is that it's an intentional community kind of like a commune. Is that a similar thing?
Yeah, but we definitely we have lots of differences.
An intentional community.
The intentional would refers to kind of a purpose like you know, growing growing organic gardens.
But we just wanted to hang out together.
Really, so you knew you would all need your own spaces as such, and so that you would all be comfortable in your own spaces, and so you built this house that Do you all have a level each? Is that how it works?
No, we have a suite of rooms.
We have a bedroom, an office, an en suite, bathroom, and a deck, and each of those suites our designer faced them in different directions. So it's really a very clever design.
So that you have privacy, Like you can sit out on your deck and it's not like you're sitting underneath heather. You can bet you're like, hey, that's so clever.
Yeah, it really is one one floor, except that right now we're down in the basement.
We relegated the TV to the basement.
Yeah, that's it was really an important question for us, the one the one that you just ask, like, how do you organize to give to live together? We share the kitchen and a large comfortable lounge room and living area. So and that's that's a significant thing to share. Really it is to three households with kitchens, but then we've got our own space. I personally thought at first, I sort of taking it for granted we have little cabins and then we'd have a central area that we might
come to and share. But I softened to the idea of sharing in the more comprehensive way.
It meant that the council was more friendly with that kind of construction. And also if something happened, as you know it does, that it had better resale value instead of having those separate accommodations.
Yeah.
I was just thinking that because it works for different kind of configurations of family groups, really doesn't it's that a way. So how together do you live? Do you eat your meals together? Do you pull everything? Like how what's together and what's separate?
That's probably the most common question that we did ask.
Everybody's like, who's cooking?
It's fun, isn't it? To getting a lot? It is food and shopping.
I think we just worked out some of these things as we went along, and people sometimes buy cooperatively, you know, for various reasons. Well, we had established habits as being older. You know, we were sixty and then seventy years old together, and we already had our preferences in food. So when the pantry was designed, it has three separate areas for the kind of foods we like, but they're pretty common
because we're all interested in good health and longevity. So we have a roster that goes up on a fortnightly basis, and on it it has everybody's name and a space for them volunteering whether they want to cook a meal or even whether they're going to be there for the meal. So we've done that and it's worked ever since we lived in the rental property.
I think it's worked really well.
It works just brilliantly. So the only meal that we have together is dinner. But if we're all here, and you know now that we're all living here and retired, most of the time. Most often we would be here and so one couple will will be responsible for a meal and generally we just roster it.
It's just one two.
Three, one two three, and so you only have to cook once or twice a week.
And how good is that?
And then you get to you know, you get to schmick it up a bit because it's fun to actually fun to design a meal and have four other people enjoying it. So that really works.
So there isn't one person who is like the boss, who is the one who does the rosters that chases people up, that says, Daniel, you said you're gonna tidy this, you have a tiler.
It doesn't work that way, you know.
It doesn't work. That don't work very well that way. We try every now and then, but it doesn't work that way.
We fall into responsibilities and accountabilities of course, so my husband Rick does the mowing every week, and Daniel does the whipper snipping, and even I look after the gardens and like that. So we have our accountabilities.
But Blody your strengths as well, I assume, Yeah.
That's right, and interests.
You know, we're doing things that we love to do.
Yeah, what did your friends and family say about the choice for this community living. I think I read that somebody's adult child asked if you were swingers. Now, now that's none of my business whether you swingers or not, But have people been quite shocked about it? Do you think it's still something that people are a bit surprised about.
I think people either love the idea, like you've spoken about it that way, it's great, or they're completely turned off. They would never even entertain the idea of living with other people. You know, they might be a couple, and then they wouldn't want to live with other couples.
I can remember one of the women in Eve's women's group saying, I could throw up at the idea of doing this.
Okay, strong Felix, So what you what would you say? I think I've read that you say in communication? Obviously, because for all shared living situations, no matter what, even when it's just you and a partner, and certainly and children and whatever, what would you say is the key? It must also be that you fundamentally have shared values
or shared you know, have a shared sensibility. I think I seen that you were all you know, you came together because you were all interested in searching, exploring yoga. As you say health longevity, do you think that that's key? You've got to have shared value systems. What else do you need for this kind of harmonious living to work?
Well?
I think communication is really the main thing, and I don't know that we're especially great at it, but we certainly, we certainly understand that without it, without saying what you need to say and hearing what you need to hear, it's not going to work. So that commitment to communication is a really key thing. And also respect, just a commitment to respect for each other. What else would you say you.
I think there's an expression, and I'll probably do a lot of damage to it, but it's like all ruugh stones get polished by rubbing against each other. And so I would say that from where we started, that we're better at communicating than we were in the early stages.
And part of it, I don't know whether it's just about getting older and maybe wiser, that you don't want to carry things that are uncommunicated because it we'll interfere with your relationship with people that you know, we basically love each other.
Of course, I wonder I don't want to project, but I know that for a lot of people, their later years can get lonely and isolating, right, I mean I often hear people talk about their lives getting smaller. Was part of the impetus for this idea of the communal living to sort of battle that possible loneliness. And has it worked that way?
I would say that was ninety percent of where we started with it. It began well had we all had parents who were aging at that point and you know, looking at them and thinking about what worked and didn't work in their lives, and so we were very we were very attuned to, you know, for at least the active part of our lives, to be able to have people around to be stimulating our in that fashion. And yeah,
I think it's worked out of site. It's been very very good for us to It's been very good for me to have to deal with things and now when I'm not feeling like catching up with anyone, to just be there, you know, and there's someone in the kitchen making coffee in the morning, and you know, you say hi, and that's gets today going.
Absolutely in the beginning, I guess what we're talking about is something more aspirational. You know, we saw that that was a good idea, but then in the way that it developed, it meant that we have activities that we've been able to share with other people. Like we all of us belong in a community choir, and it doesn't mean that we go around doing the same things. It means that we share the stories and the inspiration that we get from our various activities with each other.
It enriches our lives.
I'll be back with Eve and Heather in a moment right after this break. I'd like to ask you your advice for anyone who's listening to this and who like me, might have had those conversations with their friends who go one day, you know, that's what we should do. What's your best advice? And on a very practical level too, And I don't want to pry into your arrangements, but is it like you all have to sort of be
on an equal financial commitment. Is there a way that you know those kind of things like what would you say is the best advice to avoid conflict in this situation?
Wow?
No, you said some wise things there. Well, we usually what we say is start early.
Yeah, you started planning quite early, didn't you, Like in terms of that you move, as you said earlier, Eve, moving from conversations on holiday to meetings about it to testing the water to the toe in the water, like, yeah.
It took us a long time. We took many years. So patience is certainly is certainly a key ingredient, a key personal ingredient. You talked about finances.
We early on.
Decided we needed to have a conversation about our finances, a public conversation with each with each other about that.
Which is not a normal thing to do.
You don't tell people you know how much you have in your bank accounts and what our sets you've got. But we decided we needed to do that so we could understand where we were, where everyone was, and so it was helpful in that meeting to discover that we were in similar in similar positions. So there were no sugar daddies among us or vagrants or like.
That, because those are the kind of things that can easily build resentment on there. If you'd need something doing to the house or even at the building stage, if you'd have wanted somebody wants this and somebody wants that, likely so you do have you had to be very honest I assume about laying out what everybody's expectations were.
Yeah.
Do you think that one of the advantages to this for people is that by pulling resources like this, you've actually been able to have a better kind of lifestyle at this stage of your life than you may have been able to do by yourselves.
Completely.
Yeah, and especially if we tried to live in Sydney in the same kind of lifestyle that we have here.
Oh we've got we've got four acres, we've got a beautiful property, we've got you know, six people to work on it together, and we've got one washing machine and one dishwasher. And yeah, it has saved us an enormous amount I would say, almost half what we would normally be spending in this time period to have a similar kind of lifestyle.
Yeah, it's really interesting.
If that were your first reason in for doing something like this, it probably wouldn't work out.
Yeah, I think that's a very wise point. It's like if you were if you were sort of gritting your teeth to do it because you thought it was a smart financial choice. Is not enough of a reason.
You don't want that driving though.
No, to get you through those rough stone moments. That's right, and what kind of friends do you think can live together? Because here's something I was just thinking about. I was, I hope none of my friends are listening to this. There are some of my friends I would love to do this with, but I don't know i'd want to live with their partners.
You've got a lot of communicating to you there, So you think it's the fact that the couples were friends is one of the things that has made this a successful mission. That's a really good question, and I think
it hasn't been asked before. But what happened along the way was that one of the men discovery a men's group which has meetings once a week, invaded the other men to join, and so they had this group of men that they associated like really decent, good men, and I think that was a forum for them to be able to talk about things and you know, and have those conversations.
But you know, if.
I was just thinking about your question, and I was thinking of a couple of men that people's husbands that I could not live.
With, you would not want to live with exactly you've got. So you can't be just like, oh, I'm sure I could put up with Bob, like I think that you're not going to be able to put up with somebody through this level of process, right, it has to be you have to be able to get along. Yeah, I'm sorry. Any other good advice you said? Start early? Communication is key? What else would you say to someone who's thinking, I think that would be great?
I sometimes think the best thing we did was live together for two years. We gave it a really thorough road tests, and it's nice to say, you know, two years, we're going to do this for two years. You can put up with anything for two years, but at the end of that time, you can think do I want to keep.
Doing this or not?
That was I found that really a useful thing to be able to settle my mind into it, because then came the hard stuff, and at that point I'd thought, well, yeah, we can do this and be a great thing to just keep pursuing.
And I think something about cultivating kindness and compassion and understanding for the other because we're not the same, the six of us. If that weren't the case, then we wouldn't be able to, I guess, learn from each other along the way, and so it's not always a helpful
easy thing to practice. I have done a practice called loving kindness meditation, which is a Buddhist practice, and I think that's something that you can do on your own and doesn't have to involve other people, but it makes a huge difference in terms of how you relate to people because something in you shifts.
Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, thank you very much, father I need for sharing this story with me. I find it really inspirational.
I do.
And it looks like it looks like a beautiful life that you've built there, and no good luck to you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you MIDS for hanging out with us for this conversation about what third acts might look like. I can't tell you how full of energy these two women were, how great they look, how happy and connected they all
seem in their post work commune. I'm immediately making a list of friends whose partners I reckon I could stand to live with and who could stand to live with me, of course, and for more information about all the ways that Aware super makes your dreams for that part of life a little more attainable, please support Mid by following the link in the show notes or going to Aware dot com, dot au, forward slash retire, and a huge
thank you as always to the MID team. The executive producer of this episode and all the shows is Niama Brown. The senior producer is Grace Rufrey, the producer is Charlie Blackman, and we've had audio production from Jacob Brown.
Bye.