Welcome to messy but essential, the weekly podcast about the people side of project leadership. It's where we help you improve your soft skills to reduce hard costs. In today's episode, we're going to be looking at those conversations that you need to have, but aren't necessarily looking forward to, often called crucial conversations, we'd like to think that they don't get to be crucial confrontations, but sometimes they get there too.
Before we jump into today's topic, though, let's talk a little bit about safety. Typically, in projects, and in much of the world, for that matter. When we think about safety, we think about physical safety. But when we're considering conversations, we need to talk about emotional safety. It's about creating that space that allows you to have the conversation in a way that doesn't cause hurt or harm, or challenge to someone's emotional well being. That's not so easy
to do. But it's very important to consider. So let's jump into today's content with an example. Oftentimes, when I get into conversations, I pay attention to how the other person is feeling, before we launch into the conversation. Sometimes it's just the wrong time to have the dialogue. Now, the other side of that coin is simply that, of course, there are some conversations that we'll put off forever, because we really can come up with a million excuses for why the timing isn't right.
So when we talk about emotional safety, I'm talking about creating the space where people can call timeout, when people can say woah woah woah, hold on, I need to reflect. It's where people can truly create a safe space to have the conversation. We'll talk about how we do that as well. Crucial Conversations are those times when we need to get our message across. And we need to do it in a way that helps people change, often changing their behaviors, or maybe even how
they think. We'll talk a little bit later about a resource called appropriately enough Crucial Conversations. But one of the authors Kerry Patterson says people who are skilled at dialogue, do their best to make it safe for everyone to add their meaning to the shared pool. Even ideas that at first glance appear controversial long, or at odds with their own beliefs. The challenge, of course, is that when we really get into crucial conversations, they have an emotional impact on
us. We may find ourselves getting tense, or going in there anxious. A long time ago, somebody said to me, you know, Rod, the only person you can actually have control over is yourself. The only person you can really change is yourself. So the first thing to do when we're thinking about those tough conversations, is to step back and look in the mirror. look at ourselves first. Where is our headspace? Why do we want to have this confrontation? What's the real
motivation behind it? Is it truly to make the project environment we're working in? Or the team environment better? Or is it because we have a bone to pick and we just want to get it out? We're human. We're messy. And many of us attack things with a level of emotion that maybe isn't always serving us very well. Guilty. So what exactly is a crucial conversation? It's a discussion between two people where the stakes are high. If it doesn't succeed, we can have other
consequences or problems. Have you ever been in a conversation with somebody and they said, That's it? I'm done. I'm out of here. I have and I also have to confess that one of the struggles I've had in my life is that walking away I'm going to leave before I say something that I shouldn't say, well just don't say it. Okay, that's not so easy. That's that slight part of how our brains are designed or wired. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy,
or helpful. The other thing to keep in mind is that the longer we put off some of those conversations, the more damage it can actually be doing, either to the relationship to the project, or even physically to us. There are lots of data out there showing that when we hold things inside, or when we carry grudges, or when we carry that upset, that we're actually physically damaging ourselves.
How so you might ask? Well, I remember many years ago being told that if we consider an adult who's angry, that there is actually toxin that comes out of their breath of respirate, when we're shouting when we're angry. And in fact, science has shown that a 10 minute period of shouting, anger, can have enough toxin in it to kill a guinea pig. Now, you know, maybe we could say we don't have guinea pigs around. So is that really a problem? But in fact, think of
it. If that's enough to kill a guinea pig, and we don't get it out, we don't express it. Where does the toxin go? has to go somewhere. It goes inside. So that's one of the reasons why when we hold on to things, and we don't have those tough conversations, we're actually doing ourselves physical harm as well.
So when we think about those crucial conversations, they really are those conversations that once we've had them, we may have cleared the air, we may actually even have managed to become more healthy ourselves. As a result of them. That's going to be a pretty good motivator to have that conversation. The key is that we want to become masters of those crucial conversations, not just having them, but mastering them.
organizations or projects where people don't share things, or where people don't actually confront the right issues. or organizations and projects where there are secrets, where there are challenges where people just aren't getting along. These are organizations and projects that have a high turnover, and significantly less engagement. So there are some very clear benefits to having those conversations. Now, there's a process, of course, to make those conversations work for
everyone's benefit. Typically, they start with looking at yourself and asking, why am I doing this? Is it clear in my mind, what my motivation is, and what I hope to get out of this conversation? If it's not clear, take a moment to step back and make it clear. We're really talking about dialogue here. And dialogue is a two way process.
Many times over the years, I used to use the term discussion, until I discovered that the word discussion comes from the same root word as percussion, or concussion, it was a hitting thing. dialogue, on the other hand, is a two way exchange, where the person I'm talking with is as interested and has as much at stake in resolving this as I do. So how do we make it safe for that other person? One of the ways is by asking questions. Reflect for a moment,
if you will. Have you ever found yourself in a situation where in fact, you went in thinking something specific was the issue and discovered, maybe to your chagrin, that in fact, that wasn't the issue at all? I certainly have lots of times where I've played out the scenario in my mind so many times that I'm going to have this conversation because this is what is happening. And when I get there, I discovered that
that wasn't the issue at all. So let's start by asking some questions, creating that safe space. Let's review a moment. Go back to motives. Go back to Okay, why are we having this conversation. Now in some cases, we may be having a conversation because there's a critical component of the project that we can't move forward unless we resolve certain things between individuals. And in other cases, we're being pre emptive. We're having the conversation in order to set the stage for where we go
from here. Ultimately, though, we need to come to some type of an agreement, some type of action that the conversation is going to initiate. So since we're talking about a shared problem, what are the things that we share in common. And we start the conversation by agreeing on the things that we both believe in, or perhaps values we both share. And I would encourage you, both of you in terms of the conversation, that if you're having this conversation to take notes, so sometimes you can come
back to them. I found over the years that taking notes also clears the short term memory of the responsibility to keep track, allowing us to focus all of our mental energy on making the dialogue work, not on remembering what was said. Now, I want to be clear here, we're not taking notes, so we can use them against somebody later. We're taking notes to help us clear our minds so that we can focus our energy where we need to focus it. Now, once we've done that, things are going to
change a little bit. In fact, we might discover that having shared our common values, shared the things that we agree on together, that 80% of the problems already solved. And there's really only 20% left to work on. So given that we're now clear on our motives, and we found some common ground, it's time to get into the tougher issue. And the best way to do that is to start with the heart. Now, that kind of sounds a little mushy. But
you know, we're messy. And remember, we have emotions, no matter how much Some of us may try to mask them, or camouflage them or bury them. We all have emotions. So the tough conversation needs to start with the emotional component, start with the heart. What do you really believe in, this is the time to stay focused. It's so easy when you're in a tough conversation to get distracted, and head off into an area that
you don't want to go. I find that when I have a tough conversation with three or four things that I really want to get across, I write them down. In that way, they're right there in front of me, and I can keep coming back to them. I'm not straying somewhere else, I'm
remaining focused. Now there are times of course, when I need to refocus my brain, sometimes I need to say, Well, I'm getting beyond myself, or I'm moving into an area where I don't want to go, let's stop for a second, take a deep breath, have a timeout. My advice is don't be afraid to call for a timeout. It's not a sign of weakness to say whoa, I
want to regroup. That's where you get to use your real mental powers to step outside of your brain, kind of like a mental helicopter trip and say, okay, what's going on here. And when you're humble enough and candid enough to say, Whoa, this isn't going where I think it's healthy for us to go, you'll discover that the person you're speaking with now has permission to do the same has permission to stop the process at any time to regroup. saying things like let's stop this for a moment.
Let's have a little bit of timeout. Let's think about this a little bit more. There are times when you actually need to move away, take a break a pause and come back to it. That's part of having that crucial conversation, paying attention to what's going on around you. The second aspect to this is body language. Now, that's a
little trickier. If you're listening to this in the midst of the coronavirus or COVID-19 pandemic, there's a good chance that some of these conversations now have to happen virtually. Well, if that's the case, if you can use a software or technology that allows you to see each other, that would be helpful. But I'm going to go one step further. I would in fact encourage you to see each other standing so that you're able to see more than just the face. It's a big plus, if you get to
see the greater picture. Taking time to set up the environment, taking time to make sure that we have all of the components in place in order to make this conversation successful. Those are critical elements to managing and mastering those crucial conversations. Of course, let's be fair, seeing the whole person makes us more vulnerable. But that vulnerability allows us to dig down into some of the issues. So look around, pay attention to what's going on. Do you know how you come across
when you under stress? That's another aspect of it. Our bodies often betray us. They tell us or others what's going on in our brains before our mouths have a chance to articulate or express it. Think about some of the other cues for yourself. This is focusing you on the cues for you and around you. I know for instance, when I get stressed, I tend to do a few things. When I get stressed, for instance, my voice tends to get louder, or my language can become a little
more colorful. I need to condition myself before the conversation, so that when I feel those things happening, I take a deep breath, maybe call a timeout, and reorient or refocus myself. I actually take a moment to write down the warning signs. Things like, am I talking too fast? Am I getting louder? They're right there in front of me. When I hear myself getting louder, I know that that's a cue to change myself. And to step
back. Remember what we said at the beginning, we can only control ourselves, we can't control the other person. So if you're not in control, how can you expect them to be in control? There is a lot more involved in Crucial Conversations than we can cover in this 15 minute podcast. So I'm going to highlight a few of them and encourage you to check out the show notes. There's a clear list in the show notes and a reference to an outstanding publication, a book called
Crucial Conversations. The author is also wrote a sequel book called crucial confrontations. Hopefully you're not there, where you need to read that one as well. But it is an excellent tool as a complement to Crucial Conversations. And it's when a simple conversation isn't enough that in fact, it's got to get to that kind of tough period, or
confrontation. If we're properly focused though, including things like committing when you go into the conversation to a mutually positive outcome, we increase our chances of success. We might not agree on some or in fact, many things. But we both agree that the reason we're here is because we need to get to a certain space, we need to recognize the purpose behind that strategy, or possibly invent a purpose between the two of us, that becomes mutually
beneficial. And when you can brainstorm new strategies for getting to that place together. That's when you know that the crucial conversation is working. But it all starts with both agreeing that we're here to achieve a certain outcome. How we get there may differ. Our opinions may not be the same. But we both need to agree that the reason we're sitting together or standing together, the reason we're having this conversation at all, is because we both want a mutually
agreeable outcome. If the two of you can't agree on that, well, frankly, the conversation is probably not going to go anywhere. A third part of successfully navigating through that tough conversation is controlling you stories. What are the stories you're telling yourself? We all tell ourselves stories all the time, oh, that person's going to react in a certain way. Oh, this is gonna blow up in my face. Oh,
this is gonna be great. Brene Brown, a best selling author and researcher discusses the importance of understanding that we all have our own stories that we think are true. And that make up our reality. I want you to think about that as we move through this, and we start to wrap up. Think about the stories that you've gone over in your head that you've probably told yourself many times about this upcoming crucial conversation,
for example. Again, I encourage people to write things down simply because it clears the mind of trying to keep track of all of them. But whether you write them down or you just keep them in your mind. review those stories And then have an open mind to be able to change the stories if you need to. Because you see many times those stories we're telling ourselves are based on our fears, or based on our anxiety. They're not based
on reality. I read a stat some time ago that said that 90% of the things we worry about will never come true. Those are stories, we're telling ourselves, I refer to those stories, because they are part of how we think. And you know, at 65, I might have sometime called those tapes in our head.
Well, of course, in today's world, we don't talk about tapes, you may be of an era where you're talking about the CDs in your head, or the mp3 is in your head, it doesn't really matter what you want to refer to, we're talking about those stories that are part of our makeup, and that we can expand and, and glorify, and all of a sudden, they become our reality. But in fact, they're not the
other person's reality. If you've ever walked into a meeting and said to yourself, this is going to be a disaster, or a conversation, this is gonna go badly, I found that the universe has a great sense of humor. Oh, you think it's gonna go badly? Fair enough. And it goes badly. When we tell ourselves a story that says, I've mastered this, I'm able to stay focused, I believe that we can have a positive outcome. The differences will be amazing. All right. So what are the stories
we're telling ourselves? I can't answer your stories, I can tell you mine don't always serve me well. And what I've discovered is if you change the story, you can change the outcome. So sometimes we do need to stop and change our stories. What is the story that's actually being played out? Not the one that we're afraid will be played out. Getting back to facts, as opposed to opinions, watching out for those stories, and being aware that we can be sabotaged
by our own stories. These are all parts of ways that we can get into the conversation. And then the wrap up, part of that crucial conversation involves sharing your facts, the analytical part of our thinking, and telling you story. If you're able to change your story, if I'm able to change my story, I can look through possible other paths to take. Talking tentatively, in other words, some What if thinking, for example, what would happen if we tried this? What would
happen if we tried that? So that these aren't coming across as hitting absolutes, but rather exploring together possible paths. You see, it's about encouraging testing. Let's try it out for a little while. Let's see how it goes. Let's come back, for instance, at the end of the week, and see whether things are any different. Those are some of the ways we can truly position success, as we have those tough conversations.
But I can guarantee you one thing, if you invest time in preparing for and thinking through how to have those tough conversations, it will not only ease your peace of mind, and in fact may create a friendship that could last forever. But it will also give you the courage to have the conversation, creating the right environment, working on yourself, changing your stories, allowing for different possibilities and different outcomes.
In our next podcast, we're going to have a look at some possibilities as it comes to goal setting and to make the year ahead even better. And although I'm recording these near the end of the year, and therefore thinking about next year, there's never a bad time to begin setting goals and creating a strong vision. We don't have to wait until January 1st to set ourselves goals to
succeed. If you want the next three months to be better, regardless of where you are in the calendar and where you're listening to this, some goal setting tips might help. So join us next time. And in the meantime, check out the Episode Notes on this podcast and dig deeper into having successful, Crucial Conversations. Stay safe, stay healthy. The project is counting on you