Welcome to messy but essential. I'm your host, Rod Stillwell. And this is the podcast about the people side of project leadership. It's where we help you improve your soft skills to reduce hard costs. And when we talk about the challenges of leading people to deliver successful projects. In today's episode, we're going to be talking about a somewhat unofficial leadership role in projects, being a linchpin, or being that essential building block for great projects.
Joining me in studio today is my brother Dale, who is my business partner and comes with extensive project experience around the world. And Ela is our producer and sound engineer today. As we've done in past episodes, if you've listened to them, we're going to kick off by talking a little bit about safety. Now, even though Today we're going to be touching on the topic of important in essential ingredient, sometimes safety can be compromised, if we think we're the only ones who
can do a task. If for instance, rather than asking for help, we figure we can do it ourselves. And we end up straining ourselves, we end up taking risks that we shouldn't be taking, lifting things that really would be better lifted with two people. You know, I remember a number of years ago working with a client where safety was a very important part of their culture. And I was bringing equipment and so on in
setting up for a conference. And I was carrying a fairly heavy box by myself up only two stairs, maybe three stairs, from kind of the lobby level up to the convention level in this hotel. And it wasn't like going up a flight of stairs, it was literally just, you know, a raised portion, probably I suspect underneath it was a bunch of infrastructure and wiring and stuff like this. And so they had a raised floor for this whole, you know, convention
hall. Anyway, make a long story short, I had, you know, is holding the box with both hands, and walking up the steps and had felt a tap on my shoulder and turned around. And it was one of these organizations, vice presidents who said "Rod, you can't take that up those stairs by yourself, you don't have three points of contact, you need to get someone to carry the other end. So both of you can either be holding the handrail
or whatever." And at first, I will confess that I thought, oh, give me a break, it's only three steps. And that's where the line gets drawn. So safety, sometimes, we can think that it's easier, more convenient, quicker to do it by ourselves. But in fact, being indispensable and doing it ourselves can increase the risk. So let's jump into this. And this is we talk about a
linchpin. And for those of you who may not be familiar with what a linchpin is, it's really just a small device, or it can be any size, I guess, that one of its functions, for instance, is to be the pin that just holds a wheel on a wagon. And you remove that pin and the wheel will fall off of the axle. It doesn't really you know, it's not fancy, it's not sophisticated. It's really very,
very simple. But without it, you're not going anywhere because the wheel isn't staying on the axle linchpin in terms of let's say, even large rail cars, you know, those truck beds that that the, you know, that the whole car sits on are held on by one pin: a linchpin. So it's an essential component, but not necessarily super sophisticated, not necessarily super attractive, etc, but incredibly practical. And in that case,
somewhat indispensable. So I want to touch on that, because I'm basing a lot of what we're talking about today on a great book by Seth Godin, called linchpin. And interestingly, the subtitle is, are you indispensable? So before we jumped too far into this, putting it into the project context, one of the things that came to mind Dale, was that we're living in a world today as a result of the covid 19 pandemic. That is drawing on resources from across the globe.
Because people can connect instantly via a virtual platform be that zoom or teams or Google Hangouts or whatever it might be. And the their availability is instant. They don't have to get on a plane. They don't have to spend the day traveling. etc. And so as a result, it's changed somewhat the landscape for who is involved in a project or who we can get involved in a
project. And I, you know, with the last view and a bit that we've been in this pandemic, I've seen a great change in people's perceptions of in thinking of how to engage people, how to bring other people onto projects, how to really get the best talent for what we need, because availability is less of the challenge than it was a year and a bit ago. And so as a result, our talent pool, if you wish, is
now the whole globe. Whereas in many cases, before we were restricted to the geographical proximity to the execution of the project, so that changes, you know, who's important or not necessarily important, but who's essential, and who's making, you know, a great contribution and so on, it's no longer just because you live here, that you're guaranteed a spot. In fact, the world is now a recruiting area. So I want to talk in terms of the linchpin as being the right
person, for the right job. And the person who's going to help keep that wagon wheel on if you wish, not necessarily somebody who's local or has authority or, or that type of thing. So let's talk a little bit then about, from your perspective, looking at projects and so on. What are some of the experiences that you might have had where someone was really a critical glue, if your wish for that project team, even though they weren't necessarily the leader?
Yeah, so I mean, it's interesting, one of the things that, you know, as you talked about the fact that we've broadened that, that pool of where those resources might come from, one of the things that that comes to mind for me is that that's, that may be true in the broader context of society. But that's often been true for a great many years in certain industries. Right? So there's certain technical industries that have been doing that for a
very, very long time. You know, if you if you hired a consultant, from, you know, a large consulting firm in the IT industry 10 years ago, you might have got people from any one of their offices, right, you didn't necessarily know where that person was coming from. They chose geographically where to source from, and dependent upon all kinds of availability and
everything else. So we've always, or many industries have had that for many, many years, engineering, etc. but but I think it's broadened the concept to a larger number of industries. I think there's, there's an interesting, you know, what you talked about, term you you just use when you when you asked me the question, which was this
concept of glue. And I think that that's a very different idea of linchpin than what we might come up with, when we think about the word indispensable, just on its own, right. So for example, we've always had on projects, people who were indispensable because they were the subject matter expert, they had the technical expertise, they were the geologists, they were the metallurgy engineer, they were the network specialists, depending upon the project that
you were working on. And so those people were essential to the project. But I wouldn't necessarily call them glue. They weren't necessarily the people who made the whole thing work. You know, you couldn't have done it without them, because it required that special expertise. But often those people were just focused on their expertise. And that's a different person than the person who is able to run around and make all the things
work. Right, the problem solver, the person who, in the background, removes obstacles, perceives problems early and figures out how to make them disappear, you know, doesn't come to the table with an issue comes to the table with a solution. There, you know, there's there's a different sort of attitude to that a different approach to that, which I think is different than subject matter, subject matter
expertise. And I think to me, that's kind of when you said that we're going to that's the type of linchpin I'm thinking of.
Yeah, I like that, actually. And I think it's important to recognize that indispensable comes with a lot of connotations. And so as much as Seth Godin, in the show notes will give you more information on the book and so on. But as much as Seth uses that expression, are you indispensable Well, I think it needs to be unpacked a little
bit as well. You know, I've always said as a leadership and management training person that, you know, if you were indispensable in your role, you probably weren't very promotable, simply because if you were the only person who could do that job, why would we want to promote you into another job and leave a bigger hole than the one we're filling. So there was always that balance right? Between I'm necessary, I'm, they would definitely miss me if I
wasn't here. But I'm also able to move on, either because I've created a succession plan behind me, I have a successor, I'm not a blocker, or, you know, the organization sees me in multiple possible roles and so on. So when I talk about our linchpin, it is really for me, the individual whose attitude behavior, communication skills, competencies, etc, allow them to, to really be some of the glue that holds the project team
together. And that in that way, I'm looking at a linchpin within a project.
And you can have many linchpins and I want to point you know, it's not like a project team gets one linchpin, you could all be linchpins, you know, maybe falling over each other to be helpful, but and then the other side of that, and something that I certainly have experienced personally early on in my career, being the helper, the glue, that whatever for everyone, and being so involved in doing that, that I actually didn't get around to doing the
job I was paid for. So that's, you know, those are the kind of the two sides if you wish, of that linchpin. And you know, before the before we started recording, we were talking a little bit about the morality, if you wish, you know, of being indispensable or being a linchpin and so on. And I thought you made some valid points that you might want to repeat here.
Yeah, I was just sort of saying that I don't think the concept of a linchpin has has a morality of its own or an ethics of its own right, it's if you can, we bring to a different things, and some people create make themselves indispensable in very toxic ways. You know, they hoard knowledge, they, you know, they, they do things that give themselves the perception of being the only expert that can do this. But that's not actually healthy for the organization.
And that's not the type of linchpin we're talking about. Right. The type of linchpin we're talking about when we use the terms like glue, is that person who, you know, is constantly trying to make the overall work better, right? And they may not even really know that that's
what they do. They may not even think about it, may not be conscious at all of those people often enough, those people are just the type of people who that's what they like to do they, they get their value from watching the whole thing move forward. And so that's, you know, I think it is important to draw those distinctions. I think even the indispensable concept,
if you're indispensable. That indispensability is, is transient, if it's about expertise, if it's about a specific set of knowledge, if it's about any of those things, because eventually something comes along that replaces that. Right. So it has a, it has a defined time period.
I think that's a different indispensable than that person who, as you say, is always the person that's trying to make things work trying to move the overall forward, the person everybody wants on their project, because they're helpful and good to work with and things just seem to get done on their projects. That's a different type of indispensable, which I think has a longer shelf life. Right? It lasts for a longer period of time because it's
flexible. It's not based upon one little niche bit of knowledge or one little niche bit of expertise. It's based upon this sort of ability to move from a thing that thing is still make things work.
Yeah, I think that's really important. Especially, you know, when we make the distinction, for me a linchpin, as you've described, it isn't really about just being the subject matter expert. It's really a much broader role. And the challenge that I see, frankly, in the linchpin mentality at times, is that organizations often don't know what to do with those people. Because they're kind of everywhere, and they they have
a, you know, good connections. I mean, I think one of the key ingredients in that successful linchpin mindset if you wish mentality is being able to connect connect with people connect parts connect things together. And we talked about the glue, but it's really helping to hold those things together. And I think one of the things that's important when we, when we look at being a linchpin is that it can be a learned behavior. I mean, some people may appear to be more naturally gifted, so to
speak at that. But the reality is, it's not an exclusive role, you can learn to be a linchpin, you can learn to be connecting and helping to connect, you know, one of the things that that godine looks at is, you know, the role of providing a unique interface between members in the organization. So 10 times you, you can be the one that can help connect people that's part of a linchpin or being uniquely
creative. So you bring creative solutions, and again, encourage people around you to bring their creativity that becomes a linchpin type activity. or the ability to manage to take complex situations and break them down into relatively simple tasks. You know, one of the things I love about Warren Buffett, despite his incredible wealth, and his, you know, clear wisdom, is that he loves breaking things down into being simple that so that everybody
can understand them. And again, I think that's part of a linchpin role.
I think it's, it's interesting cuz I, you know, I mean, I think we can oftentimes, organizations, they may identify them as linchpins, but you know, they might know those linchpins right? But intuitively, they understand. So, you know, there's, there's things like I've worked with project managers before who they were good at project management, they understood the project management methodology, and all the rest of that type of stuff.
But for whatever reason, they were the project managers that whenever there was a project, that was a little dicey that nobody was really sure. That was the project manager that got that project. Why did they get given the hard projects? Because everybody knew that they were going to find a way to make it work. They were going to get it done. And was that because of their skills at the technical aspects of project management?
Well, yes, they needed those skills, those are absolutely important to getting the job done. But that wasn't going to be enough. Right. There were other technically as skilled project managers that didn't get given those projects. And people didn't necessarily identify why they got the project, they just knew that if you gave them the project, it just, they felt that that that scary project, I will give it to that person, because it does seem to work out when we
give it to them. Right. And to me that that becomes those linchpin type people, those linchpin type activities, that, that you look for a linchpin to accomplish. I
totally agree. And I think what's important from, you know, for our podcast listeners today is to recognize that anyone can choose and it is a choice, to be a linchpin. To be fair, linchpins engage differently, may end up doing more work may end up being more involved in the project, etc. So if your comfort zone is just to stay on the periphery, keep your head low, do your job, well, then don't aspire to be a linchpin, because to be fair, you may be providing great value to the
project. But a lynchpin is going beyond that core value that they bring. They're really going to keep pushing beyond it. And I think for me, what's exciting is, it is still a learned behavior. So, you know, my suggestion in any project world is to say, you know, maybe you are lynchpin for a phase of the project. And and then, you know, the next phase isn't necessarily one where you can bring as much value in that
linchpin type role. And so you're, you know, allowing someone else to step into that and you become a supporter of their activities and so on. So really, what we're looking at when we're talking about linchpins is an individual or individuals on a team who just help make things happen. "Well never say that's not my job."
But at the same time, who are protective enough if your wish, have their own roles and responsibilities so as to still do the job that you know is there nominal paid for job and I think that's that challenge is finding it's the above and beyond because clearly, not everybody chooses to be a linchpin. But if you choose to be a linchpin don't do so at the cost of doing what it is you're paying for. It really is an
extra activity. And I think that that's one of the one of the key things and in many cases, to be fair, linchpin is a mindset as well. It's a philosophy, it's a thinking it's translated into action. But one has to think at a different level to perform as a linchpin. Does that make sense?
Yeah, no, I think it did think it absolutely does make sense.
So as we wrap this up today, and I really appreciate the insights, Dale, we, you know, we want to stress that being a linchpin is about being a visible tangible support to a project that really does go above and beyond. And it's not about minimalist thinking, it's truly is about thinking, stepping back and looking at the overall needs of the project. Where can I jump in, without having to be asked and so on.
And that linchpin thinking will make you know, the more lynchpin thinking we have in a project, the easier that project is for absolutely everyone. There are a bunch of suggestions that you'll find in the show notes, if you check those out on the website, and I'd say if you if you leave a comment, that would be wonderful. If you decide to leave a comment and want to leave a way for us to communicate or connect with you.
I'd be happy to send you an actual physical linchpin as a reminder of the mindset that's required in that linchpin thinking. It's been fun thinking about the above and beyond. I know we, you know, it's about relationships. It's about building, we talked about the glue. Ultimately, at the end of the day, every one of us has an opportunity to be a lynchpin, or an opportunity not to. And sometimes it's not our season to
be that linchpin. But if it is, embrace it, have fun with it, and make a difference out there. And whatever you do, do it safely. Thanks to Ela for engineering. Thanks, Dale for getting getting involved and we look forward to meeting you all in the next episode.