Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Hello listen, it's marenzum Zap webpr Now.
I just wanted to remind you that if you are enjoying our weekly podcast, and I really hope you are, you will also probably really enjoy my weekly newsletter for Bloomberg subscribers.
It hits in boxes every Saturday.
This week I wrote about why investors should be very wary of AI job cuts. They might not bring companies what those companies think they will bring them. The week before that, I talked about the market complacency in the face of the Iron War, and I cover a huge amount of subjects, So do check out the link in the show notes on how to subscribe to the newsletter. It does mean signing up for a dot com subscription, but I promise.
You it is worth it.
You will also get access to John's Money digital newsletter and informative and actionable stories from more than two thousand, seven hundred journalists worldwide. Welcome to Meron Talks Your Money, the personal finance edition of merin Talks Money.
From these bonus.
Podcasts, we talk about the best strategies for making the most of your money. I'm Merri in some set web and with me senior reporter and Money Distilled author John step Back, Hi, John, I'm in right. This week, we wanted to talk about something kind of really quite old fashioned, right, We wanted to talk.
About, yeah, shareholder perks. Now.
I think a lot, as you know, about ownership and about how we give people a sense of ownership when they hold equities. And this is something that most people don't have, right because they hold their acts very remotely. They hold them as a giant fund through their auto enrollment, or they hold their shares in a fund on a platform, and even if they hold their shares as a single share, they still hold them on a platforms. So there isn't
a certificate, there isn't something to touch. And also people don't go to agms in the way they used to in the old days, so people don't have that sense of connection to the companies in which they invest. And that's as you're getting slightly worse, not better.
I think.
I don't know if you've seen this conversations underway at the moment too it maybe there might we might see an end to the physical agm. We might see an end to the way that individuals can vote on remuneration at agms, etc. And I'm really nervous about this because I really think the physical AGM should be compulsory. I think if you should be compulsory for all companies to have physical agms, I think they should also be forced to live stream them so that you can either watch
them online or you can go to them. And I also absolutely believe that tea and biscuits should be compulsory at these physical agms and active I was going to go one step further and let me do that. I would say that lunch should be compulsory, Yes, lunch, and what's more, what's more, that the AGM should start at a time that allows older people to use their discounted travel documents to get there. That's maximum participation. I think
this really matters. You're meant to be anti regulation and have anti regulation, but I'm proved somethings improve some things. I'm pro participation, I'm pro shareholder democracy, and I'm pro people feeling like they have a sense of ownership. And I think that we have possibly allowed companies to get away with not really treating their individual shareholders in the way that they should. You know, if you look at the look at the history of agms, right, these used
to be so much more fun. I wrote about this in that book. I wrote Ages Ago Share Power, about people turning up there with some very famous nuns, right, who used to turn up all the time. In fact, they probably still do and engage with companies on anything that that bothered them. And long before that, there were I wrote about these brothers, the Gilbert brothers, who made a big fortune in the Californian gold Rush, and they moved all their money out of pick axes, pots and
pans eventually into stock markets. And then they went to literally every single shareholder meeting and complained about everything, and when they didn't get the answers, they wanted to stand up and show you work for me, you work for me, And I thought that was great. Great, it's activism, and
you know the world needs more Gilbert. I will just say, before I get on to what we're actually supposed to be talking about, I wanted to point out an article I read in one of the newspapers this weekend about an order of nuns in West London. In fact, I've walked past this convent quite a lot now I come to think about it, and they are doing exactly the same, taking on, taking on corporate America who are doing things
they don't like. They've been running a lot campaign against City Bank about a fossil fuels and impact on Indigenous rights, and how you might feel about that is not really the point here.
The point is that if you're a shareholder.
You get the perk, You get the perk of being able to use your vote, go to the a GM, have your cake, make your voice known.
And I think that's really important.
No, that is important. It's all about ownership, right, Yeah, It's one of the reasons we do have a lot of films we have at the moment is because people are either in a weird of or increasingly detached from that whole coincept.
Yeah, and how do you get rid of that?
How do you get rid of a distance between a person and an institution?
In the UK?
And you know the answer, and I know the answer, and I suspect that our listeners also know the answer.
And the answer is discounted booze, isn't it though?
I mean, isn't that the answer to everything? Let's be honest, Well, in the.
UK, at least, I suspect that other countries have different dynamics, but here cheap booze it's the answer.
And we're having this conversation.
Because we noticed that Chapel Down is one of the few companies left that has a really great perk. If you're a shareholder in Chapel Down, what is it? Well, what's the discount job?
Well, it's at least of when them with twenty five percent off of things what one share.
Minimum shares needed one details.
If you've got between one and one nine hundred and ninety nine shares, you are a silver shareholder and you got a twenty five cent diskind of you got two thousand or more shares, you're a Gold shareholder and you get discounts off all sorts of things.
Under wine, there's a platinum shareholder.
If you get more than ten thousand shares, you get thirty three percent of wine purchases and annual guided two vouchers for four running off at some restaurant and their shop, and various other little perks as well. So great, I mean, I actually be feeling in this neck of the woods. I actually know quite a lot of people who are
fans of Chapel Down for various reasons. But barely. I mean that is the kind of thing where you would say there and you think, well, actually, if I drink any quantity of this way, and I thought, it probably is worth just owning shares purely for that.
Share prices need thirty five p, right, thirty five p and you get an annual twenty five percent discount verge.
I mean it's not bad, No, it's not. And I mean this, I mean, and this is the other thing that I was looking at. What is it Bloomsbury and Bloomsberry function GQ rulings publisher. I think they're still publisher. It's you get thirty five percent off the r RP of any of their books in print in one chair, which is you know, so you really think that shares like six point ten at the moment, So at the end of the day, if you don't have to buy very many hard back books to get the money off.
And yes, by the way, it is the home of Harry Potter, very Potter.
A lots of these things now and it used to be back in the older. Is that a lot of the discounts only came if you had an actual share typical Yeah, In fact, looking at the list, there are some that are still like that BT Group PLC discounts on a variety of products and services, but it's only avaiable to shareholders with this with a share certificate.
But most of.
Them now, if you get in touch with your platform, they're going to arrange for you to have proof of ownership so you can receive the perk.
Well, yeah, and I mean I think I think that's one reason why, and I mean the promised Actually, I was just looking at some research and this, and the one thing that I couldn't really find out was I don't think there's an easy way to measure whether perks have gone down in either popularity or the number companies
offering them. There's certainly a sense that they have, and I think if that's the case, it is partly because we had this transition from paper shares to you know, kind of like once well through nominee accounts, so it became much much harder and for the same reason sort of like people going to agms, actually in voting probably went down somewhat as well, because suddenly there was this
kind of middle person between you and your shares. Where I think things have changed now though, has been with technology it's like I mean, for example, I have an account with one of the big platforms, and it's very good at nagging me you in the e GM when it's coming up, and so you think the trans feril mechanism new for for perks, I think is much much easier. Also, I think to be feeling the BT boys, I think
those authors do going. I don't think it's just the certificated people, because I think that would be extremely old fashioned.
Well that says on the Hardbridge Landstone website, which is where I just checked.
I'd be surprised if that isn't a we put it there.
Okay, all right now the best, the best ones. I'm looking down the list right, and the best ones seemed to be all about things that the Brits really like.
Booze and holidays.
Your boos and holidays, Reny.
Sure you get discounts on package holidays books with the company's subsidiary, which in travel.
Yes, that's the funniest one. That's going to be one of the funniest. It's like NI shows like this engineering group and you can get a discout in a package.
Yeah, Norwegian Cruise Line on board credit that maybe people aren't thinking about cruis right now, Mitchell and Butler's twenty percent of total bill.
Gosh, yes, no it is. It's basically all about It's all about.
Smiths in turn a shareholder indulgent cord giving food to percent of food to drink, ten percent discount in the hotels, Carnival.
What do you get on Carnival? I think you get some one of your cruise sorts of things. Yeah.
Interesting.
You know I was looking this up, John, because I was wondering when this all started. When did this idea come that you should give people some sense of excitement and something extra from holding shares. And do you know when you think back about the first thing that one of the first things that retail investors really went for.
I always think of Foreign colonial the investment trust, right, And they had this great system back in the eighteen seventies where when you bought a certificate because we're not reading when shares and certificates that you bought it a account and then redeemed it past. You'd buy one for eighty five p and then when redemption date came along, you get one hundred backs. It were more like a
bond than a share. But nonetheless, they had this lottery component, so all the certificates would be out there, and then every year they would have a random draw of the certificates and if you won, you got your money early, so you've effectively made your capital gain ages before anybody else, and then you could reinvest.
I like that as well, because it's a bit of elaborate financial engineering and throwing that lottery element, and people just will pay for the lottery.
Yeah.
I don't actually understand why. I just put regulator reason, but I don't understand what companies should somehow figure it a way to make that gambling instinct. What can the cost of capital favor? Again? I feel, but not, I mean, it's it's it's very interesting. The other big one that
I remember, there was legendaries that it was Eurotunnel. God, yes, when that first listed, I think if you were among the original shareholders, you basically got something like next to free travel on the euro on the Channel Tunnel, like for life. I think you did, and they did try. I think they tried to take it away, but it was legally challenged because obviously that went through a load of restructures and etcetera, et cetera. And I think the
original shareolders still have that perk. I mean, I could be wrong, but I don't think. I think you had to be in the original batch.
But anybody out.
There who still has that, do write in and let us know. That will be fascinating. We'd also like to know, if you do have it, how often.
You've used it. I remember working with some guys in the early two thousands who who had who had got it, and they were still using it, so it was it was sort of still legendary up until up until then at least.
Oh we forgot to mention Melbury, we forgot to mention Margery exactly good. Yeah, Now you get a twenty percent discount. I think you have to have a certain number of shares for that. I don't think that comes easy, that one, because obviously the shares are quite high in absolute terms, well not that high, but here over a pound, and I think I can't remember how many you have to have, but slightly more than others.
But then you get a twenty percent discount, which is surely worth.
It if you any of your design the handbags.
Yeah, yeah, And you know I think that when I think about perks, I think to myself, it's not really about the money, right, It's about the sense that you're part of a group that it sort of leaves you to the company and it gives you a great degree of corporate loyalty. But then I remember that whenever anyone says it's not about the money, it's about the principle.
It's always about the money.
And I guess if I was a big buyer of Mulberry handbags and I was a shelter, it would definitely be about the money.
Well, yeah, And the thing that's a good point because I was. I was certainly I was sort of like thinking, well, you know, especially you shouldn't late the text, do all wag the investment dog. But actually, if you can be bothered then and a lot of people can be bothered to other sort of you know, money saving expert type menu shy. So if you if you do go to a certain pub a lot and you can buy one share and get ten percent of all your bills, then
I say, well, why wouldn't you do it? It's not as if you know you're going to recoup your initial investment very quickly.
Well absolutely, I mean got a family wedding coming up at the end of this end of this year or over the summer hab some chapel down shares. I mean, it's very compelling and I'm a big approval of this, John. What would you buy? What would you buy for the perks? I mean for the perks, I think give me as a cruiser.
I wouldn't say you want to know, we.
Just cruise totally. The women in my family quite often shop next for stuff, So it's just you know, I think you get twenty five percent off once a year if you have enough shares. There links one hundred shares, and I mean, I know that's not terribly exciting, but the I think some of the smaller companies haven't looked
into this properly. But some one of our correspondents on Twitter was mentioning a kind of a booze company on Aim that had entered at least I think it was perhaps maybe this was a one off thing, but basically got a bottle of twenty one year old whiskey as long as you bought shares at a certain time and had held them for this seven length of time and that sort of thing. I actually think, I think your point of ownership is actually really important on this, and
it was something that I hadn't kind of considered. But can you imagine if everyone and an also enrollment pension who owned a foot say one hundred tracker, got a twenty five percent discount voucher from next every year as part of their pension statement. And because that's I mean, you know, I'm assuming that the majority of these would actually qualify for it. Now, whether you know, let's well, yeah,
because of the perks may explode if that happened. But I think that's quite an interesting thing to think about because it goes back to this thing and getting people excited and interested in and understanding, because then you would know, you know, all right, I actually owned shares and I didn't know that my auto enrolled pension was actually end this or you know what the other footally one hundred companies that still offer perks.
And we've talked a lot over the years about look through voting and how people should be able to use their votes even if their shares are held inside a track of fund or an active fund or whatever it is, that you should be able to still influence how your vote is used, and look through perks seemed like an excellent idea as well. Look through perks look through tea and biscuits, look through lunch.
Maybe what we could do is we could say the companies all day, you will let you off with a lunch and not the tea and biscuits, but we'll let you offer the lunch as long as you offer an actual perk to shareholders that is on a look through basis, and then they have an incentive to avoid the kind of hassle at the AGM by making sure they offer the half decent perk.
All right, I'm good with that, as long as anyone who goes to the AGM is guaranteed tail coffee, at least two biscuits and a branded pen. Yep.
Yeah, that's okay. I think I think we can shake hands on that ideal.
Okay, it's a deal. I will add one thing to that, is it.
Back when I was writing that book share Power, I looked at an SEA report that came out that was looking at how people feel about investing ETCTERA, and one of the things that came up very clearly was that new investors really enjoyed the status of feeling that they were owners. Yeah, and if we can give everybody that feeling of status with a little look through perk, three
pen and a biscuit. I think we will really be improving matters in the UK, or certainly improving matters around the stock market.
The genuine I genuinely think that's a great idea, you know. I mean, if there's a company out there are the things actually, yeah, that is something that we could and should do, then maybe maybe it should. Maybe we can start at the end.
Get in touch, let us know what perk you're prepared to offer, and John and I will let you know if we approve. Thanks John, Thanks Will, Thanks for listening to this week's Marin Drugs Your Money. If you like our show, rate review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts also be showed. Follow me and John on ex or Twitter at marinas w and John Underscore Stepic. This episode was produced by Summersadi and Moses and I'm sound designed by.
Blake Mabeleson Aaron Kasper.
Questions and comments on this show and all our shows are always welcome. Our show email is Merror Money at Bloomberg dot net.