349: Packaged with external location or unpackaged

00:00.00 jamesmontemagno Frank. It's time for me to upgrade my iphone because there's a yellow iphone again. 00:07.98 Frank Is that um fun. Yellow Ugly Yellow Seventy s Yellow Trippy Yellow What? what? yellows are Yellow Yellow Brick Road yellow. 00:14.87 jamesmontemagno You decide you go and you look at this yellow and you tell me what you think is said Yellow I don't I don't I mean I have my own opinion but I imagining that it's very different than your opinion of the yellow. 00:28.68 Frank Here's the thing I don't trust product photography especially when it comes to yellow yellow is a sensitive color I yeah I've been trying to get a couch cover and I don't trust any of the Amazon product photography because they show you this like. 00:42.88 jamesmontemagno Um. 00:44.26 Frank Dark Burgundy Red and then everyone's uploaded photos you know in that in the comments are these like bright cherry reds and you're like what what am I to believe what am I to believe this is almost a banana yellow I don't even know if I want to call this cool Yellow. It's not.. It's not Neon. Yellow. It's not pastel Yellow Well Bravo Apple for not creating yet another Pastel So Bravo straight up Banana yellow. 01:09.97 jamesmontemagno I think so I'm into it yell is my favorite color and I haven't had an iphone that I could purchase those yellow since the iphone 5 c. 01:20.92 Frank Ah, really the 5 c ah did you have a yellow five c that's true. The five days ah 01:25.96 jamesmontemagno No I was an Android user for all those days. So I did have a I did have a Motorola ah something phone and it was yellow and I was very excited about it and it the yellow changed over time. For better or worse but I did have a yellow phone so but it was a motor roll and the oils and the car and the sun and the thing and the stuff. Yeah. 01:45.15 Frank Do you mean the product color Yellow changed or you mean the sun changed the color yellow the oil. Yeah okay, um. Are you actually going to buy this phone just because it's yellow. 02:02.54 jamesmontemagno No, but I think that the gold is a really good color I have the I not heather always gets a new phone so I just get whatever a hand me down is so I actually don't get to fake I I already my my next color is predecided for me which is silver because Heather just got the the normal silver one. So that's my next phone. It's predetermined so the problem is that Heather will never pick a yellow phone so I will never get a yellow phone. 02:32.86 Frank You only get the handmidowns how how have you come to this point in your life. You're a mobile developer. Don't you have business reasons doesn't Microsoft buy you phones and now you don't want a Microsoft phone. Um I feel like you could splurge and get a yellow I think that's. 02:48.17 jamesmontemagno No no because then both of us would get new phones too often and they're just so expensive. You got pay for all of them Heather always gets and we talked about us a little bit heather always gets the new phones because. 02:48.55 Frank Within reason. 02:57.96 Frank Um, yeah. 03:03.95 jamesmontemagno She's the photographer of the family and I have like a nice camera but she she's she prioritizes the photography So that's why she always gets the new phones. 03:11.62 Frank Yeah, and this always brings up the thing they only ever release the fun colors for the non pro ones too right? So there is the iphone 14 not the pro which is awkward I wonder if though ever about the pros have some fun. 03:24.42 jamesmontemagno Um, yeah. 03:29.53 Frank I think I ask that every year every time a phone comes out but I'm going to repeat it I hope sometime we get to have fun banana yellow in the pro line. 03:36.70 jamesmontemagno Yeah, one day out there and you know what we'll see I always like the that we have the purples those are cool. But I think I don't think those were pro either disappointed. You know like I get a little disappointed in an Apple a little bit when when that happens so it is what it is. 03:55.17 Frank Not. 03:55.37 jamesmontemagno It is what it is I just downloaded a zip file from a Dropbox. It has a bunch of things in it's got some app icons. It's got a ah cllr dll core clr. 04:08.64 Frank O o successful thing. Oh that's a lot ah does it have a ah an e xy in a James is there a little secret e xe in there. 04:11.93 jamesmontemagno Created dump axie let's Scott what else is in here. Ah well I don not depend re real axie dot ai I don't know if I want to open this. Let me right? click on property. 04:26.29 Frank Oh wait wait wait. wait wait no stop stop that might be a virus if it's just an eexy you probably should have the operating system verify the certificate chain of the developer who signed that e exe James. 04:30.54 jamesmontemagno Yeah, okay. 04:40.21 jamesmontemagno Yes, that that checks out well now the thing is I have all these files I probably need like right click properties now how do I unblock all of the files because Windows has now marked every asset as ah, ah probably a virus. 04:57.84 Frank Ah, do you do do you run that Mega virus called Windows defender. 04:58.00 jamesmontemagno And that to how do I do that unblock. Ah, yeah, that there's a property and then that's to say unblock there we go Unlock is. 05:06.89 Frank Unblock Unblock Unblock All yeah, ah trust you know Trust people trust software you blindly download off the internet from random dropbox links. 05:12.88 jamesmontemagno Trust me on an application open and it says hello world welcome to Donny Mawi no as well. So then click it and it increases the counter on my machine that was supposed to do I don't know I just downloaded random exi from the internet from. 05:20.41 Frank Are you kidding me. 05:27.86 Frank I Don't really. 05:32.86 jamesmontemagno Zip Zippy Zippy drive Zippy what what did I mega fire mega make a mega zippy fire box. Oh pro. 05:35.27 Frank Ah, now Mega Fire mega zippy fire I believe it's called Mega Zip Disc Fire plus pro pro I mean you have to pay for the accounts. You get the fast upload speeds. 05:51.63 jamesmontemagno The yeah you got see the super fast. Not it. Ah it open now I have a bunch of other things in here. So the question is if I take this 307 kilobyte file let just say I put that in my c route I just now opening for me. 06:01.40 Frank Yeah, yeah I don't think that one's going to work. It's going to want its dependencies my viruses my viruses like their dependencies. 06:11.72 jamesmontemagno Um, um, dumb double tappping on it. 06:17.33 Frank Oh by the way I have your credit card info now. Yeah, we just on air live completed an experiment James that's what happened we just did science because I guess. 06:19.62 jamesmontemagno No, my gosh. Yeah that one didn't work and needed all the stuff in there because it's not ah, it's not a thing So what? what happened here Frank What And why? what? So what did I just open and why is it. 06:35.69 Frank In a real world if we were real engineers. We could read documentation and think through the problem instead I decided to write you a virus and just send it. No, it's not really a virus. Everyone? Um, what I wanted to find out was can you in this year 2023 I believe um release an app as just an eexe anymore and I used to do this all the time I did this with calka I used to love to release all my apps is just a single eexe and we've talked about how dot net supports. Ah, packaging all of its requirements the runtime itself everything into one little file a little eexe that you can run. This is ah possible on Mac also and linux. But there was an issue and I didn't believe this at first you had to explain this to me. The issue was if you used winui which any old maui app does these days. That's the dependency it takes in order to be a windows app. Ah when you I apps I was under the impression I believe you were too can only be run by being packaged up. And being executed either through visual studio or installed through a package package installer an Msi File Msi X one of those 2 and the experiment we just ran cutting to the cutting to the end here just prove that we can in fact, by reading the documents create. 08:12.63 Frank Just an eexe that doesn't require packaging the end I'm I'm very proud of us. 08:18.19 jamesmontemagno That a minute podcast done good to go now I Ah so with Xamarin forms that used. A technology called Uwvp which was also packaged up into a sandbox application that would be deployed and my understanding of when you are in the windows app sdk is I thought it used the same. 08:34.29 Frank Yeah. 08:45.73 jamesmontemagno Packaging mechanism as uwp for it. However, that is one option I believe there's also the Msi X option which is an option I've used in the past which is really cool by the way because you can take the Msi x. And you could well you like a wpf app or a winforms app. You could put it into an msix and then you could put it into like the app store you can like deploy and it has like updating and a bunch other stuff and and msix is really nice because it's like assigned and it's trusted and has all these things and but a bunch of other stuff in it as well and I just thought that that was. Basically the same thing so I open a new duham mai application if I go into my bin I go into my debu you going to here I going to my windows 10 thing. There's an axe there. There's an axe there Frank I think it's just there. 09:34.68 Frank Ah, the yeah the problem is if you go build a Maui app like let's just do it from the command line. Let's ignore visual studio for a minute. Ah you can just Target Net seven dash windows slash some random number they generate. 09:41.93 jamesmontemagno Are. 09:51.50 Frank Some version number and you'll get a windows thinger. Um, but the moment you use when you y the the new when app sd I don't know what to call the thing is it called when you are or when app Sdk app. Whatever ah you use that code. And also and even though you have a dot ec when you try to run that e xc nothing happens it runs and then stops running. It's kind of anticomac. Yeah, so going back to win Rt remember when our t windows eight. Ah. 10:11.89 jamesmontemagno Accurate That's correct. 10:27.19 Frank That was the deployment model they had to because it was a sandbox. They had all the signing requirements and everything and so Microsoft really pushed for they really wanted you to release on the store in which case you don't really have to worry about anything because you do all your certificates and everything through the store. But if you did do a package. Um, you had to sign it with your dev certificate and I was complaining to you about that? Um, because yeah, it's nice. They make packaging your app easy with just that one caveat that when you have a packaged app. You also need to sign it. Because now windows uses something called security and I hate security. It's the worst and ah basically it's not too bad but I'm pretty sure I was whining to you a lot I was like no, you have to go get a certificate and you have to. Pay these fascist money every 2 years to keep your certificate valid and blah blah blah hate certificates all that stuff and I was making that exact complaint on Twitter because I can't let things go. And so and i'm'm I'm feeling terrible I'm trying to find their name because I want to give credit replies and says it might be Brandon Paddock ah no bro, you're you're totally wrong. Ah, you are living in the windows eight world the UWpWorld the win YouY world James 11:57.37 Frank The win Youi two world. We were both correct that is the deployment model for all that stuff. However, we are now living in the win you I 3 world and in the win you I 3 world you can finally make real ah Microsoft calls them desktop apps. 12:15.40 jamesmontemagno Success. 12:15.18 Frank I Call them? Yeah Ec Yeahs because you can double click that EExc and they actually run you can actually make real desktop apps ah with with those apis. The problem is the default is still the old packaging model but it turns out there's a it's not in a hack. It's officially supported. There's an official document on how to Avoid. All that craziness. 12:36.64 jamesmontemagno Yeah, know now what you said is is is ah is fascinating because when you boot up a ah windows app sdk app or on Himi app which is the windows app sdk and when you I through those are 2 different things. Um, you basically you think of when you I 3 or. You know, different things is is a feature of the windows of sdk so when you do that and you hit debug what actually is happening is it's going through a packaging and then it's installing the app onto your device which is why it shows up in the start menu which is why I have maui apple 1 2 3 or 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Eleven twelve eight hundred 13:05.14 Frank Um. 13:12.42 jamesmontemagno In there which is nice because then you get that's what your users would get of course if you're going through the packaging system and all these other stuff like we've always had packaging systems right? if you had an Xy you could go through any of the different installers whenever you'd get those installers it would do stuff right? So you could. Install it tell windows where to put it in the system. What the icon is all the other stuff any dependencies and then yeah when when windows eight stuff came around then windows 10 with u tobp and then what is fsdk and phone Ios and android use sandbox and you put it in a thing and you went there and it was done. However, you know. Over on the mac you still have that opportunity when the the store came and you'd package it up and you obviously can sign it and do other stuff but on on the mac you could just take the app or whatever and then just plop it down there and then the user could drag and drop it in the applications folder or open it up and they would get a. Ah, prompt and say hey way woo you know? and oh you know there is that there is a scary prompt by the way on windows that does that it's it's um, it's a prompt that comes up ah and it says hey hey now this is you're a non check. This is a. 14:09.63 Frank Ah, yo slow down there buddy. 14:17.46 Frank Pass. Ah, but. 14:27.80 jamesmontemagno Unsigned scary xy thingy are you sure you want to trust this. Ah you can you can actually in the in the sample that you sent me. There's like ah an app x folder and I think if I double tap on that. Ai. Then it gives me a a popup like whoa are you really really one hundred percent sure blah bla blah blah because there's like something else that is trying to do inside of there and and often when you download stuff from the internet too. It's like are you sure you really want to run this like yeah really I really I really want and it's like are you sure are you are yeah know. 14:49.60 Frank Yeah. 14:55.92 Frank Yeah. 15:04.72 jamesmontemagno We're not liable if you got ticket it to the Geek Squad you computer the ge squad after this not our fault sign off please sign a docu sign to install this this x this this axiy all of them. 15:15.62 Frank God don't don't you dare sell solve this captcha which one of these has a bus in it. Ah. 15:23.74 jamesmontemagno Every single one of them wait a minute. Yeah. 15:24.88 Frank So anytime I complain about security ma I remember a tweet someone replied to me once the like security models evolve over time frank just adapt. Okay, and I'm like okay, but there's there's different levels of security that I find tolerable even Mac has gotten. Pretty aggressive on their side. It used to be. You could just ship around a dot app and a dot zip and life was fine. Um, even those get flagged as downloaded from the internet so you get scary I downloaded from the internet message and under some worse conditions. You might even have to go to settings and give it permission to run. Under your privacy if it's not signed at all so Apple still wants you to sign your apps and then even go ah a step further What do they call that that what you upload it to their servers and they do on the cryptography on it and then you sign it with that hardened hardened. 16:03.63 jamesmontemagno So. 16:15.42 jamesmontemagno Who. 16:22.20 Frank Ah, hard Indy Xy basically it's just registered with their servers ah windows so that that's where Apple that's the current state of the art for Apple windows is in a weirder place. Um, yeah e xes you can still ship around for the most part I did it the other day I downloaded dotd xc dragged it onto the desktop double clickcked on it. It ran I was like great. You seem to have had a little bit more security on your machine but that was third party so that was windows defender doing windows defender things who knows what that does. That's not built into windows just happens to be shipped with some windows. Ah I think the part that was driving me a little bit nuts with the default maui packaging system was that if you didn't sign the package and tried to install it. It wouldn't allow you full stop. It didn't. 17:11.70 jamesmontemagno Are. 17:13.77 Frank Warn you and say are you sure you want to do this. We'll let you do it but we don't want you to do it. That's what I was expecting but it was a full stop. You are not going to install this this is not happening today because it is not signed. I'm sure there's some registry setting. You could go change. Do do that but I'm not going to ask any users to go change a registry setting to install my app and so I found it a little bit frustrating that they decided to take such a hard line on it with a lack of signing of the package. And that's why this experiment that we just ran that was a great success is so wonderful for me because it means we can actually use a security model that's closer to the mac of yeah yeah, it's still good to sign these things but the operating system will yell at you but it'll still run. It. 17:47.63 jamesmontemagno So. 18:02.61 Frank In the end. 18:04.70 jamesmontemagno Yeah I I did this I created an app at the very beginning of the pandemic that was um, very similar to any of my other apps that show numbers on a screen that can be integrated into into obs but sure enough I had ah I had an application called covid. Covid nineteen stats where you could pick a country or the world and it would update at a random interval covid stats I don't even know if this thing so works. Ah, but you can actually go into this kind of you can actually just go into the github releases and I uploaded a zip file and when you. Download said zip file. It's fifty megabytes it says and I'm going to open it right now and I'm going to extract it. Yeah, this is and then it's the the app fully. 18:44.50 Frank Oh you were make you are making fun of the size of my E Xe app because I didn't do any trimming or anything so I shipped like everything with it. 18:59.20 jamesmontemagno Everything in it and do engineering is 1 twenty eight megabytes but you can sure enough open it and then I get a windows protected your pc ah smart defender. Yeah, just trust me, it's fine it because it's not signed or I just it's so it's a win forms dot net five done at 6 ah exy and then. 19:08.79 Frank Yeah. Yeah. 19:18.42 jamesmontemagno It's not ahead of time. Go but but sure enough it opens there. It is like that Wow well. 19:19.45 Frank You know? Okay I don't want to I still want to talk about how fun this is because I'm just excited that this is possible. This hasn't been possible I mean since Windows Rt since the new set of apis so bravo to Microsoft and all that stuff. But I do want to mention the the whole reason I'm going down this path is I do get requests from people from time to time that for whatever reason they don't want to buy my app on the windows store and they're like dude both Venus venmo you some money. Can you just give us a download link for the app and I'm like. 19:46.27 jamesmontemagno Are. 19:55.38 Frank I Totally want to but I really don't know how to I don't know how to you know without going and paying for a dev certificate without actually packaging up the app correctly and even for like open source projects I don't want to have to deal with that. So This isn't just ah, a one off like I actually get. Requests and not you know a few a year. Not that many fair enough. But at least I get real people asking for these one off releases? No, It's just whatever reason they have no network. 20:24.60 jamesmontemagno Those people on windows 7 20:33.18 Frank Connectivity. They're not allowed to be signed in on that machine I get a lot of like engineers and people working in weird conditions. 20:34.15 jamesmontemagno Um. 20:41.00 jamesmontemagno Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense it was. There's always going to be those edge edge cases and weird things and and other things I've had that I've had that happen a few times for sure where it's just like um you know. 20:51.60 Frank Yeah, one was actually government for whatever reason they couldn't buy someone should tell Microsoft but for whatever reason these government people couldn't buy apps off the app ah windows store. 21:03.14 jamesmontemagno Well often a lot of corporations or even government stuff like they have a you know? um, there's mobile you know device management there's mobile app management too and and some of the the phones like they'll be really locked down and they have their own app. Their own app store right? So they they can only access the company app store to get access to stuff. 21:21.99 Frank Got I love wind forms apps James this thing's gorgeous, everything's everything's unaligned but man there's there's just that windows 95 aesthetic that I just love I I it's also like it almost looks like classic Mac too. It's just the like. 21:26.35 jamesmontemagno Oh just you open. 21:36.94 jamesmontemagno That's so good. 21:41.48 Frank Perfect Native Ui Styling I Wish we would just all go back to this. We don't need color gray is fine. You know everything should be in a box because boxes are good. Buttons are obvious things change when your mouse goes over them. 21:54.50 jamesmontemagno Yep I did. 21:59.41 Frank It's just I mean it's it's one hundred and twenty eight megabytes which is absolutely ridiculous, but there is this weird thing with windforms apps. They can't be trimmed. They they just don't allow it. Um, which is good because a win you I app can be trimmed so we could probably get this thing down in size. Um, but man this thing's gorgeous. It's just it's. 22:07.81 jamesmontemagno Um, yeah. 22:14.50 jamesmontemagno That's true. Yeah you it has the default icon too like when you launch it. There's like 3 but boxes for no reason doesn't make any sense I did though i. 22:19.16 Frank And gorgeous. 22:25.76 Frank Um, yeah, that's like the. 22:28.77 jamesmontemagno I did use I always enjoyed your apps that were for the Mac because you would use these these these I don't know what they what they're they're basically hey group a bunch of controls in this box and there's this tiny 1 ne-pixel outline and in and mac they're nice and rounded and on on win win forms. They're hard. 22:39.88 Frank Yeah. 22:46.80 jamesmontemagno Hard as a rock ninety degree angle like everything and now my my favorite part is look at that picker. What a good dropdown picker. It's delicious. It's just so good. 22:53.50 Frank I know just as like native you eyes were peaking. Everyone's like well shouldn't we just draw our own controls I'm like no, we should let Microsoft draw our our controls because. Gray and simple are perfect I think your checkbox is wrong, but that might just be windows 10 styling and I'm just not used to I really am a windows 95 kid but your ah James Mountain to magno goes off the edge of the group box. Do. 23:19.18 jamesmontemagno Could be yeah, look at all those little little tummy accents that are over. It's great. Ah yeah. 23:28.69 Frank Can can you please realign that and data from should be left aligned to the group box. This is this is why I used to love this is why I love native their development. It's the Native Ui Kits I Just absolutely love them So as much as I just I've been talking about how much I like win you I and all that stuff. 23:36.56 jamesmontemagno Ah. 23:47.55 Frank I do miss someone should do a windows 95 theme for when you so because I do miss like a native look to things. 23:52.46 jamesmontemagno To'll be great. It's good. Yeah I don't I don't know why some of thy stuff is not align. It used to way used to be I don't know. But. 23:59.40 Frank I why do you have you have 2 but I'm sorry I'm gone off the rails now but you have 2 buttons onces called get and the other one's called start I can't imagine what either of them do and why are there 2 buttons maybe at a little tool tip. You can do tool tips. 24:08.74 jamesmontemagno Yes. 24:16.13 jamesmontemagno You can't gets get does a one off get and then start will will'll refresh it on an interval timer and then it it'll say next. Update a specific time the the api no longer works. So just throw the 4 or 4 But. 24:17.67 Frank And when forms you know. Cat. 24:30.81 Frank Did you write this before or after my stream timer. 24:36.30 jamesmontemagno Ah, this was after definitely after? yeah so because this is in 2020 my stream time has been out for my stream timer was a ah dot net core 3 dot 1 w pf app in an MS I x 24:50.36 Frank Jeez was it was it ah wpfapps didn't have that problem good old WPfThey though those were real axes. 24:53.58 jamesmontemagno But I shipped to the app store. 25:02.31 jamesmontemagno Yeah I even. 25:06.11 Frank I'm so happy James I'm so happy that I can write a windows app and actually release it without dealing with certificates and stores. 25:14.48 jamesmontemagno Yeah, we did it. We did it. You've you've you've you've done it and I'm proud of you and now I want to see if you can actually how what we know the mind's one hundred and Twenty Eight megs now. The real question is what is your. Actual application. 20.3 what's the size going to be of that thing. What are the dependencies um needed. 25:32.41 Frank Yeah, yeah, yeah, the best I've been able to do with dot net 7 without doing anything crazy just turning on the normal default things a dot net 7 windows app can be down to nine megabytes it's kind of the. Without getting crazy without doing any? Yeah so ah, the fact that your windforms 1 comes in at one Twenty Eight megabytes means there is a lot of extra stuff included. That's not 100% necessary to put for 3 2 buttons and a text box and a radio button on the screen. 26:11.17 Frank I'm not I feel like the win ui is still going to be big. It's it's hard to trim out everything. So I don't imagine it'll get down to the nine megabyte size but it would be nice to be smaller than ah the windforms app. It'd be nice to have like an additional benefit. But. 26:20.82 jamesmontemagno Um. 26:27.47 Frank Truth is these days. Everyone has a fast internet connection. It's just a little bit annoying having to put up a fifty megabyte zip file 26:34.79 jamesmontemagno Yeah, no I agree. Ah I'm into it I'm excited to see ah how it goes for you The question then becomes how do you serve updates to the thing. 26:48.50 Frank Yet don't ah so you are kind of you are ah locking yourself to a very specific version of the windows app sdk and if the person doesn't have that. Specific version of the appsdk installed I'll I'll have to test this but I believe they get prompted to download it. But I have not tested that scenario. That's another thing that the windows store just takes care of for you. You just don't notice. Ah the Microsoft distribution model is a little bit crazy now. 27:07.40 jamesmontemagno Um. 27:20.74 Frank I I actually found out about this packaging. Did we actually mention what the packaging trick is what you have to do that's hilarious. We we are such good hosts hey everyone hi my name's Frank if you want to do this e xc thing that I love not using. 27:25.90 jamesmontemagno No I don't think Dave we just talked about it for 25 minutes 27:39.71 Frank Windows packages in your windows app Cs Project file. There's a little property you got to add it to your project. It's called Windows package type capitalize. Some of that set that to none. Oddly enough makes no sense I know. Set the windows package type to none I Guess you're saying no I'm not going to package not into that windows you set that to none and all a sudden Um I Guess what they do is in your eexc. They inject some code that initializes the windows app sdk. 28:14.82 jamesmontemagno Yeah. 28:16.43 Frank And that was something that was done by the packaging system previously maybe in a more static fashion versus a dynamic boot up, but the good news is I believe it's that dynamic boot up that allows it to prompt the user to download whatever dependency they need to to run it. 28:31.69 jamesmontemagno That makes sense. Yeah, that makes a little bit of sense. Yeah, the document which you would never be able to figure out what is called. It's called use the windows app ah Sdk runtime for apps package with external location or unpackaged. 28:45.86 Frank Yeah, the external location is weird too I don't know what that is. That's a whole nother set of dos to go read. But I got intrigued by the unpackaged part of it because that that's what I was going for. 28:58.68 jamesmontemagno Yeah I'm curious if it's like oh I want to install this on an external hard drive. That's that's the external location. 29:12.15 Frank Yeah I was almost thinking it might be more of like a corporate policy thing though too because you get into that kind of stuff with like active directory and things like that. So I was wondering if it was like external location lowercase letters or external location Pro Copyright microsoft. 29:29.57 jamesmontemagno Yeah, well I will put a link in the show notes if you're super interesting because there's a bunch of other little toggles and things behind the scenes that you can opt in and out of in a bunch of. 29:31.23 Frank You know that kind of thing I wasn't really sure which one of those it was. 29:47.10 jamesmontemagno Crazy named Cs Prodge things which are very fascinating. 29:50.83 Frank And I do want to give a shout out to the Microsoft person who tweeted me this. Thank you very much brandon paddock principal engineer slash architect in the word plus editor team at Microsoft former windows dev architect. 30:03.79 jamesmontemagno Who. 30:08.89 Frank So I believe they were qualified to point out to me how I was screwing up I Love Twitter sometimes so that was fantastic. Um I ran into this because I was trying to package up. 30:13.40 jamesmontemagno Um, they wrote the code that they wrote the code that that does the thing that'll be funny. 30:27.59 Frank Web view 2 which is the edge browser hosted in a windows app and I was getting confused with the docs there too. We could do a whole another show on that one but ah, it's funny that like I started a Twitter conversation about hosting a web browser and the app and just out of randomness. 30:33.40 jamesmontemagno Um. 30:46.72 Frank Ah, unlocked the secret mystery of how to actually release apps without packaging them on windows. 30:54.22 jamesmontemagno By um, there you go you let us know what you think I'm pretty excited about this because now I can take this and actually tell people because I get this question all the time. So let us know if you're interested now. Maybe this is like something that you're like oh now I know that I can do this? Maybe it's a oh maybe I will move away from you know or move forward with. You know, using this newer technology for it. So it's one extra incentive if you will in the windows f ssdk world to to go on that route. So let's know what you think go to merge conflict fm or discord or patron or wherever you want to go and gives us a little little notepe. What are you doing? What are you up to are you getting a yellow iphone I'm not. But I should I really want one maybe 10 years from now we'll see buzz gonna do for this week's Merch conflict so until next time um the packaged version of James Bond to mag now. 31:38.83 Frank Um, and I'm the unpackaged Frank Kruger thanks for listening. 31:41.00 jamesmontemagno Pace.