if you can actually listen to somebody you don't agree with, which most people have a problem with. Yeah. But if you can actually listen with empathy, even if you don't agree, this is the beginning of the art of ending conflict because then they, they can start a conversation, not a screaming match. Welcome to Mending Divides, a global immersion podcast where we host conversations with folk on the front lines of myriad conflicts. I'm your host, Jer Swigart.
Today we're honored to sit with a woman whose story and presence have become a beacon of hope and resilience and courageous love in one of the most entrenched conflicts of our time. Robi Damon is an Israeli peace activist and an international spokesperson for Parent Circle Families Forum, a joint Israeli and Palestinian organization of bereaved families who have lost loved ones in the catastrophe between Israelis and Palestinians, and have chosen reconciliation over revenge.
Robi's son David was killed by a Palestinian sniper, and when that happened, Robbie made a choice that would challenge the logic of retaliation, nationalism, and fear: she stepped toward her perceived enemy. In this episode, we'll learn more about what it looks like for Robi to continue to move toward her others and constructed enemies with kindness, creativity, and respect. While the scenario, the crisis, the catastrophe in Israel and Palestine is dire and must stop.
This episode is not just about Israel Palestine, it's about all of us and how we can transcend the obstacles, both ideological and systemic that try to keep us apart from one another. Here's our conversation. even to maybe start the conversation right here, Robi. I think the world that we live in right now, the inertia for many of us is to get the world we want or get what we want by force rather than friendship.
And so when things happen to us, our inertia is retaliation or revenge rather than reconciliation. And I think what's remarkable about your story, what that many of us are familiar with in the midst of the most unthinkable pain, you made a decision one day that it seems to me that you have made every day since then for reconciliation rather than revenge, rather than retaliation. And I wonder if you can just bring us into that moment.
this decision that you made I can walk the path of retaliation or revenge and endorse that and get behind that, or I can walk the path of reconciliation I don't think it was a decision that I made, a conscious decision. It was very clear when the Army came to tell me that David had been killed by a Palestinian sniper, one of the first things that I said. You can't kill anybody in the name of my child. So already that was there. Mm-hmm.
doesn't mean that I consciously, I didn't even know that I said that, that I was told afterwards. So I wasn't from the onset looking for revenge. What I was looking for was maybe consciously a while after David was killed, was a framework to prevent other families from experiencing this pain. So that was a conscious decision that I wanted to do something to prevent other mothers, particularly from experiencing loss.
So I needed to find the framework and I found the framework, which was the parents circle, but I can't pinpoint, you know, I think you've just got the, the actual decision came without me even knowing. Hmm. Hmm. So say a little bit more about that then, because,if in a moment of deepest sorrow and grief, where retaliation could be the natural response, It is a natural response. right? So tell us a little bit more behind the scenes for you in the making of Robbie Damelin that.
That caused in the moment of deepest pain, you're saying, I don't want this for anybody else rather than, I need revenge and justice looks like an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. You know, like, what's the making of you that caused that to be your response? I think my whole life, you know, if I think I'm actually writing a memoir now, Excellent. which is not it's not a monument to sadness. It's about survival. Mm-hmm.
It's also funny because, you know, I am a great believer in laughter and that's part of how I survive. You know, and when I think about it as a child from the age of like six being in boarding school. In a very British colonial boarding school where you learn how to walk and talk and dance, and if you ate something and didn't finish it, it would come back on a plate with your name on it until you did.
So that was the beginning of a kind of education of survival because I was the youngest kid in the school and I decided to tell everybody that I could fly because nobody took any notice of me. Hmm. I dived off a cupboard onto a bed. That was a survival tactic. So then I became a kind of a famous person in the school, and then the school decided that they'd rather, I wasn't there anymore after like, I don't know, I think about three years.
And then my mother decided that a convent would be a good idea. Oh wow. So I went to a convent, the convent of the Sacred Heart as a border. Hmm. were two Jewish kids in the school, and I of course thought that Catholicism was much more romantic than going to synagogue, and the nuns actually forced me to go to synagogue, whereas I would've preferred to become Catholic then because it was a much more Is that right? holy water.
And the incense and all the stuff around it is much more appealing than reading Hebrew that you didn't understand. Mm-hmm. And then coming back after my parents getting divorced. In those days, that was known as like criminal almost. And learning to survive that and learning as to survive a stepmother and being in the anti apartheid movement, all of those steps in my life are like preparing me for what happened.
Mm-hmm. So then the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, you know, all of these things In had a huge yes, had a huge influence on who I am Mm-hmm. and on my survival. And so it's not so surprising that I would've come up with a statement like, you can't kill anybody in the name of my child. I don't know. I mean, I was only told the next day and apparently. One of the television companies came to interview me and I gave a whole monologue there about how you can't kill anybody.
And talking to Ariel Sharon, who was then the Prime Minister, you know, saying, this is not the way, Yeah. you know, everybody's a product of their childhood. I could've been a lunatic because my parents were very strange. It's choices that you make in your life. What was the choice that I made? Actually, the ceremony that we had this year on Memorial Day, the theme was choices. What do you choose to do when something happens to you like this?
And since October the seventh, we've had something like 80 new members. Hmm. It was, it's an extraordinary thing to see that a lot of the people from the south, you know, from the kibbutzing Right, on the Gaza border, have chosen to work for peace. Yeah. I'll tell you a short story. There's a family called Iran.
There are three sisters and two brothers, and maybe a day after their parents were burned to death on Kibo on... next to Gaza they were already talking out for, there should not be any revenge. And the fire burnt the whole house. But the mother was an artist and she had a studio and the fire stopped at the steps of her studio. So, the daughters brought to the ceremony that we had on Memorial Day, stones from the mother's studio. She used to collect stones.
And Palestinian, and Israelis from our group wrote on stones and we made a spiral, which is so beautiful. If you look on the American Friends newsletter, I think you can see a picture Mm-hmm. the spiral, which we brought to the ceremony, and there was a huge peace conference on Friday, last Friday in Jerusalem. Of all places in Jerusalem. Right. And I think thousands of people came to this peace conference and we took this spiral there, sort of, because it's such an extraordinary story.
And, Mm-hmm. I traveled with the son of Vivian Silver, who was my friend. We went to America together. His mother, he was actually talking to her as she was killed and burnt. The house. So there are stories like that. And we have Musa Palestinian who lost something like 25 members of his family, plus he's a doctor and he lost his cousin who was shot and he was with him and he couldn't help him. Yeah. there are all these extraordinary people, which in a way bring hope. yeah.
All of these terrible tragedies and the cruelty and Yes. is happening in Gaza is so beyond belief. I am almost ashamed to be a part of that. Mm-hmm. as we were having the ceremony on Memorial Day, we have a joint ceremony of Palestinians and Israelis. It's really Memorial Day for soldiers, but we choose to make it a more memorial day that will be for both sides.
So, they had it in many areas, and actually a group of right wing lunatics came and attacked a synagogue where the people were watching our ceremony. And when you think about it, that's like the 1930s Yeah. the Germans burnt down synagogues and attacked people. yeah. Yeah. We are facing very extraordinary times now. And you know, I think about how's this behavior of Israeli soldiers? Where's that coming from?
And I think that on October the seventh, we actually lost the wall because the army, could not protect the civilians. And so what happens when you are humiliated? Because that's how they felt. You want revenge. Mm-hmm. so a lot of that behavior that is going on in Gaza comes out of this sense of revenge. People just don't realize there's no revenge. And what just happens is more and more people are being killed and the worst part is the children.
Yeah. I promise you all these people who are great experts on the Middle East wouldn't be able to tell you the name of one child Hmm was killed. hmm. Either Israeli or Palestinian. right. And I keep talking about the human consequence of war because everything is about numbers, but people don't see the human stories behind this. You know, I, I watch this little clip.
I keep telling people this story because it's such an illustration of this little boy holding onto his cat in Gaza and saying to his parents, if you don't let me take the cat, I'm not going. And there was this whole altercation going on and then the parents said, okay, you can take the cat. So he took the cat and they get into a taxi. And then I watched one of the hostage girls came out of being a hostage, holding a dog called Bella.
And like these are the human beings that are being affected by all of this lunacy. Yeah. The hostage situation is outrageous. I can't believe the cruelty behind that. Mm-hmm. But on the other hand, I also can't believe how many Palestinians are dying in Gaza. Where's this all coming from? We have to stop, Yeah. have to allow food into Gaza. How dare we as Jews even think that people should starve to death? Robi, I want to go there and I want to consider this particular catastrophe.
It's dire and has to stop. And I'm with you. and of course my, country and my people being Western Christians in particular, are so intimately intertwined in this catastrophe and in its prolonged presence and violence and destruction. Before we go there though, I want to come back to this concept of survival. And I'm with you in that we have been adequately shaped to deal with conflict and pain in our families of origin and our early social experiences.
And, What I'm finding I think at an interpersonal, but also at an institutional or political level right now or levels I. That too many of us equate survival to the elimination of those who we perceive as threats. the way that you're talking about survival. Leads me to believe that you imagine survival as a interdependent co-creation. We're in this together. Survival is something that we pursue together, but in society, in my country, and in yours, I would argue, survival.
the mindset is the only way we survive is by eliminating anybody who we perceive as a threat. Obviously you can't do that. You know, people talk about we have to eliminate the Hamas. Right. Hamas is an idea. So unless you change the circumstance of a young boy growing up in Gaza, who every two years is exposed to a war who doesn't have a shelter, who watches his mother running from bombs. Not having anywhere to survive. And he has no freedom of movement and no hope.
So what kind of adult will come out of that? right. And then you look at the people, the kids who lived on the Kibbutzing surrounding Gaza, was a kind of paradise. Now I went down to the south to see it is because I believe you have to witness in order to tell. I was so horrified just by the scenes on the of, in these burnt houses and little shoes outside and bicycles. But then I think of the kids in Gaza, it's horrific.
Mm-hmm. And then I think of the kids that grow up in the town surrounding Gaza. This is understanding why the kids that live there have been exposed to rockets since they were tiny children. So what happens is at the age of 12, they are still wetting their beds. And so all of this trauma is being experienced by both sides now. So everybody says make peace, but the war is still going on. You know, it is so sad to see. When I see in the morning, I see.
Pictures like a tiny square of a soldier that was killed. You know, I know what's waiting for those families. People can't get in touch with the sanctity of human life. I. And it's okay. They think it's okay to kill Mm-hmm. going to get your goal. For me, survival is like after, when I heard of October the seventh, it was almost the same kind of reaction as I had when David was killed, is that I have to work to change the world.
Of course you can't do that, but I've been to the states seven times. Since since October I've been to India, believe it or not, to talk to a group of people there. I've been to England and to Italy, and it just endless, you know, and the world in this mad taking side issue think they're helping. And I've been to all of the university campuses and this is an opportunity to tell you of a program, which may be people listening to this podcast would be interested in.
After October the seventh, we had thousands and thousands of people turning to us to ask us to come and talk to them or do zooms. It was just impossible to cope with that amount of people. I. Then the World Bank phoned me and I thought they said the Jewish workers are not talking to the Muslim and vice versa. So they have to invite me. The World Bank has to invite me to come. I mean, that's absurd, right? not absurd. It's actually not surprising, Robi. so anyhow, nevermind.
I wanted to get to Georgetown University Mm-hmm. Georgetown have been wonderful mentors of the parents Circle for many years. And I went with a Palestinian from Janine, which is really catastrophic. He's a nurse, so you can even vaguely begin to understand what he's seen. So the two of us went to Georgetown after the World Bank and. At that stage, dejo was the president and we were sitting at dinner and I looked at Mohammed and I said, wow, you should come and study here.
And Dejo said, I can make that happen. And Mohammed is there now Hmm. for a year, honor full scholarship. You never know it's gonna come out of your mouth and where it'll land. That's right. And then. We asked if they could help us create an online education program for all of these people that are turning to us. Actually, it's kind of ironic that we are supposed to bring you hope, whereas should be the other way around, I think, Yeah. nevertheless.
So we created a program, it's called Listening From the Heart. It's online, it's three dialogue meetings as if you were sitting in a dialogue meeting. With three different couples. It's with question and answer. You know, we know more or less what the questions are going to be, and there is a guide for the facilitator of this program, which we created together with Georgetown. So it has how to facilitate the meeting, which you, what do you choose from Listening from the heart.
It could be a three month program, it could be just one dialogue meeting, Mm-hmm. We launched this. What happened is we met the head of the Teachers Federation in Washington and they invited us to Texas. Yeah, we went to Texas. mm. Oh, I'm not supposed to say that. So there was a teacher's meeting for all the thousands of teachers came to this meeting and we presented the program and they endorsed it.
And then we met the head of NYU in New York, they presented the program in New York and they became very involved with the Parents Circle. And now some 40 youngsters, not small kids, young adults went to Prague because NYU have a branch there. And they sent eight Muslim and Jewish students from NYU to be together with Israeli Palestinians. And so of course they go back to the university and they can talk another language, and Yeah. now they're going to meet again in Berlin on the 4th of June.
So this is a kind of vision that I have in my head that if campuses would be clever enough to do something like that with us, maybe those kids can go back and be messengers. Maybe then instead of like all the demonstrations, they can start to support other organizations. Doesn't have to be the parents circle, but support morally.
I'm not even talking about money now, but there's so many organizations that all these politicians and wonderful experts on the Middle East, if only they would understand that they need to support. Women wage peace, breaking the silence, combatants with peace, the Palestinian NGOs that are working to end the war and the conflict. Wouldn't that be more constructive Mm-hmm. than just talking and giving right. everybody advice on what they should be doing? Yeah. Yeah. That's right.
of advice and experts, Yeah. don't they talk about Sudan and why don't they talk about, you know, there's so many terrible conflicts going on in the world. Right. Right. And that's the, we'll include the the link for this program in our show notes because we want our people to, to access this. I think it's one of many examples that I've learned from you about what it means to transcend the ideological and the structural barriers. To be in relationship with people.
I mean, you talk all the time about the power of story to unmake enemies so I, I'm interested in this moment whether interpersonally or institutionally and you say from Israel Palestine to Sudan to the DRC to South Africa, I mean, Northern Ireland.
Across the board there are these massive conflicts and there are what feel like massive conflicts between individuals in all of our communities as well, who carry this belief that survival or flourishing requires distance or the elimination of my enemies rather than relationship with them, co-creating relationships with them. Talk to us, Robi, about you're living the hopeful alternative.
It's, it feels to me that you're trying to take people on a journey from survival, flourishing through friendship rather than through force. You're trying to take as Doesn't even have to be, it doesn't have to be friendship, it has to be respect. Respect, Now, that is the first step, and if you can actually listen to somebody you don't agree with, which most people have a problem with.
Yeah. But if you can actually listen with empathy, even if you don't agree, this is the beginning of the art of ending conflict because then they, they can start a conversation, not a screaming match. I don't know. I mean, we have television here. It's would be in comparison, say CNN and Fox News. And then there's the Palestinian media, and that's like between all of these three it's like living in a parallel universe.
And so if you can't listen to the people who are actually talking to you and telling you their life experience, then I mean, then there can never be a conversation towards, you just have to learn to listen with empathy. It's hard. so, so give us, what are your best practices for listening from the heart? how do we do this? Teach us. Well, I'm not a teacher, but i'll give you an example. I went to Columbia University.
I mean, we've been to all the universities and I've been to Harvard, Columbia, Amherst, Barnard, you name it. And everybody said you can't go to Columbia. This is before the war. Jewish students and the Muslim students hate each other and you can't possibly go there. It's dangerous. Yeah, yeah.
So of course I went yeah, and we're sitting on the stage and I'm looking, all the Jewish students are sitting on one side of the room and the Muslim students on the other side of the room and you know, like you can feel the atmosphere. So I said to him, look, why don't you take all your opinions? All your religion, all the things you think you know, and just put them down next to you and let's listen to the heart.
And it's amazing what happens then, because when they listen to something that is real, it doesn't have to be a story of loss, it's a story of a human being. It's amazing what happens afterwards. They went to have tea together. I don't know if anything came out of it, but you can be a catalyst in that change. Mm-hmm. By allowing people to be exposed to your vulnerability too. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. we talk all the time about how in this moment.
Everybody's sparring and fighting at the ideological level. Everybody's ideas and conspiracies and convictions and whatever. and we're actually coaching our folk to to maybe not spend as much time sparring at the ideological level, but rather ask questions like, can you tell me a story about when this first became important to you?
It's like what we're trying to do, and this seems similar to what listening to the heart is all about, is I wanna, wanna spar with you ideologically, I wanna know you. You've gotta be open to this right, because the thing that people find it, they want to be right. You know, I'd rather I'd rather be right than win.
So, you know, it's like getting to the point if you share something that is really honest, you know, I was in at San Diego University, this is long ago when women peace makers and I went into a class and the kids, there was this very bad atmosphere in the class. I could feel that they weren't like, and I decided, I'm not talking about Israel and Palestine. Because they wouldn't even be able to find it on a map.
And I said to them, okay, I'm coming back tomorrow and I want you all to tell me where your parents and grandparents came from and why. Wow. You should have heard the stories that came out in that classroom. Right. I. You see, that's like you, if you can't handle the actual conflict, you can't find something that's neutral. If you sit in a group with all these people who are so angry with each other and you ask them, tell me why your parents or grandparents came here.
What made you who you are today? But you really listen. You don't in the middle, start screaming at each other. I mean, watching TV now is so awful. All these grand experts on everything. I'm so worried about Ukraine. America is very far away from everything, Mm-hmm. but I can tell you that if Ukraine goes on, it can turn into something horrific. Yeah. That's right. And this is not based on politics, Mm-hmm. have to know the facts. Mm-hmm. That's very difficult because I'd rather be right.
You know, it's so easy to be pro-Palestinian, pro-Israel. Let's import their conflict. Let's have another fight Yeah. and let's be right. I. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. and what I think is desperately needed and what I see, and I've been following your lead for over a decade now. You and your, and your community pro this person, pro that person isn't the way forward being pro-human is the way forward. And I like your distinction around you don't even need to necessarily be in relationship.
We need to actually cultivate the capacity for respect. It seems that listening. vulnerability, some presence. These are some of the manifestations of respect. I might disagree with you, you might be my other, my irritant or my enemy. But can I still respect you've been on a journey, you have a story to tell. And what I'm finding in the peacemaking work or in navigating conflict is I can't find affinity when we're arguing about interpretations of facts.
I can find affinity when I hear your story or a portion of it, you know, This is all part of what's going on, but then also if you look at what's going on in the Middle East, I mean, I don't know if you're following the visit of your president. It's extraordinary, you know, it's like Alice in Wonderland. I sit and try to work out is this good or bad or what's that? What's gonna happen here? You know? And so we are also cut off, and I had an interview on Al Jazeera in English.
Al Jazeera being Mm-hmm. already banned from Israel. And of course our PR people sent me, you shouldn't do it. I said, of course I'll do it. Those are the people I want to talk to. Right. So, I did the interview and they allowed me seven minutes of really just talking. And of course I didn't allow the person to because she wanted me to talk politics. I don't talk politics, I talk human. Hmm. I talk the sanctity of human life that people don't seem to recognize.
You know, they don't understand unless it happens to you, it's very hard to understand what loss is all about. Yeah. And people say to me, what? You're still grieving, you know? And I said to him, yes, he's still dead and I still love him. Mm-hmm. You know, it's so, it's difficult to just let things happen. I was in the airport when the Iranians decided to finish us off. Mm-hmm. So of course the airport is one of the main targets.
So we all go into the shelter and I'm standing there with an ultra orthodox man, okay? And another 60 people, I don't know, and he starts talking to me. And says, you know, my wife died and he tells me all about his grandchildren and this whole thing. And I thought to myself, maybe we should all be in a shelter for a month because a man like that would never, ever talk to me as a woman, yeah. you know? But here, there's this life Yes.
where Yeah, you talk to everybody and maybe we would all see the humanity in each other. yeah. You know, I couldn't agree with you more. I, you know, I was in the West Bank on October 7th when all of this broke open and the next five or six days in and out of shelters and celars and stairwells and wow.
I really resonate with you because of the way that we found each other's humanity in that space, like it we, I was in those spaces with Israelis and Palestinians and internationals, and none of that mattered. We didn't say, what color is your passport and what's your conviction on X, Y, and Z? We reached for each other's hands and we took good care of each other. Well, so I thought maybe if we were all in a shelter for three months, we'd all start talking to each other.
you what, Fortunately I don't always hear the sirens. You know, there've been hundreds of rockets outside my house. I. Mm-hmm. my cat is used to the sirens, and the minute that there's a siren, she comes into the safe room. So then I know. Is that right? Wow, that's amazing. Hey, I wanna shift gears really quickly because you have always struck me as somebody who lives with a sort of transcendence. And what I mean by that is.
you observe and can identify ideological and physical structures, but you don't live like you believe that they're permanent. And I watch you personally. I would not be able to do anything. Exactly. So, so I think we live in an era where too many of us are trying to build as permanent boundaries and borders between us as possible, and here I see part of the magic that lies behind the way that you navigate conflict is you disbelieve in the permanence of boundaries and borders.
Talk to us a little bit about that and some of the ways in which you just simply disregard their permanence and figure out how to transcend them. It also might be, you know, stupidity and naivety. It also might be that, but I remember when I first came to Israel, after all being in anti-apartheid movement and thinking, you know, this is never going to end in South Africa. If you would've told me then that blacks and whites would sit in a room.
Hmm. And not want to kill each other, I probably would've said you were mad. And so, you know, I look at that and I think to myself, well, I remember also when Sadat, who was the president of Egypt, came to Israel. I mean, that was our worst enemy. And I remember him standing at the entrance of the plane and I was sitting with my two little boys and the tears were pouring down and I thought, wow, Mm-hmm. they won't have to go to the army.
Yeah. But that was a kind of miracle that happened with Sadat coming here. And then King Hussein, went after the peace agreement with Jordan. A Jordanian soldier shot and killed some Israeli kids. So he actually came to Israel and he sat on the floor with the people who were mourning. There's certain Sephardic Jews sit on the floor.
when they're in the seven days of mourning, and I thought to myself, if there was an election now, we would probably vote for King Hussein to be the next Prime Minister. So things happen that you never, and I can't be stuck in a concept because you have to understand why. Why do people do things? Why do the Israelis behave like they're behaving now in Gaza? Why can you not change Hamas? Unless you change the circumstance. Mm-hmm. and how will we manage all this trauma?
I. Yeah. I'm wondering I mean, you're, you have endured so much personal loss obviously society in your homelands and mine have endured so much and I think it's calcified our imaginations. It's depleted our energy and our belief. There are moments I have to believe. For you where you wonder about the possibility of repair. And so let's talk about resilience for a moment because so many of us are navigating the front lines of our own conflicts.
and while at the same time trying to show up in a moment in our own country that is catastrophically chaotic and we're watching policy dignify some and denigrate so many at such a breathtaking pace here. Let's talk about resilience. I. In moments where it feels especially dire to you, Robbie, how do you, where do you go? Where do you I work, hope? I work. That's my survival tactic. I cannot endure the sitting on a couch, moaning and groaning about the situation. Get up and do something.
Hmm. If you can't do something, then shut up because otherwise you are just a nuisance. But if you think, and you really believe in something, and America is in a very precarious position now, so is Israel and Palestine, and if I sat at home, I could knit sweaters and drink tea. Yeah. Mind you, I dunno how to knit, but if I could, I mean, I, it would be so against all my natural, I'm 82 years old. I can't, you know, there's no way that I can stop now. It's too important.
It's to making the difference in one kid. You know, I had two groups last week of Jewish kids that came from Australia. They were like scarp movement. One from Australia and one from South Africa. And they were telling me about how they experience antisemitism now because of the pro-Palestinian movement, how difficult it is for them because they dunno what to do. Of course, this is going on in America all over too.
When I was in Georgetown, I listened to the students and I said to him, look, you've got some Jewish kid here who's studying, I don't know, law, medicine, accounting, whatever. What's he got to do with the decisions that Netanya makes? Why must you express your hatred and anger against this guy? He's not part of the system. It's very hard and these kids don't know what to do. You know, I felt so sad, this whole movement, antisemitic movement that's going on.
My cousin, I think I told you this, I'm not sure. I have like a lot of family in London and the, there's a little girl cousin, she's 13 Mm-hmm. and she was wearing a star of David, which she normally wears inside her shirt. So that already tells you something. She can't wear it. Exposed and it came out of her shirt in in the train and some guy came up to her and said, die you bloody Jew. You know, and the scrolls that are on doors.
You know, the scroll that they have on the doors, Jewish families, Yeah. Many Jews have taken them off their doors. This is horrible Yeah. and we have to be aware of all of this, and we have to be aware also of the Islamophobia that's going on and the phobia about anything that's different from us. yeah. That's right. I there, there are about 200 hours more of conversation I wanna have with you about all of these things.
I want to maybe close our time though with one or put a semicolon on this conversation and maybe have another time. But you have a unique analysis I think of of the United States. You even alluded to.
We are in a precarious moment right now and for those of us who are listening in, many of us identify with the Jesus tradition and are asking some significant questions about the unholy fusion between American Christianity and partisan politics and how that's contributing to so much of the pain in the world. we're also trying to figure out do we navigate the conflict with our colleagues and with our parents, and with our kids.
And with our neighbors and, you know, so we're, we understand that we're a part of a big milieu, but we're also a part of these micro relationships where there are unique front lines of all of our conflicts and. I, I think you you spend enough time on our continent and talking to young leaders in this space, what is your message right now for U.S. Americans? And I would say what's the invitation or the sense of urgency that you carry for us? What do we need to be paying attention to, right now?
You need to listen to each other. Nothing to do with Israel and Palestine, and who the hell am I to tell anybody what they should be doing, but just do something. That's all. That's all I can say. And it doesn't have to destroy your family. If you believe in something you know, you can definitely say, this is the way that I feel. Because if you haven't got the guts to do that, then sit at home and do nothing but you will be nothing.
Having, having this sense that you can tell the truth about how you really feel Yeah. and not, it's called, I don't know if you use this pussyfoot, you know, like you don't, you just, you want to be so delicate and so politically correct Yeah, with everybody around you that nobody knows if you really are telling the truth yeah, and speak your heart. yeah, yeah. And, and do so, um, do so with respect for the other and with kindness. I think you are very kind. I can tell you one thing.
I mean, I drove the world. The most generous nation are the Americans. I promise you that I know Mm-hmm. but it's also because you are so cut off from the world that it's very difficult for you. I mean, I've watched news all the time in America and it's very limited. You don't know what's happening in the whole world. I don't know why the New York Times is good. I don't know about Los Angeles.
The Washington Post used to be but now a lot of media has become so, shallow , you know, without really looking at conflict and Mm-hmm. you have to get knowledge. Mm-hmm. need to understand what's going on in the world Mm-hmm. because it affects you and you are so important to the rest of the world. Hmm. I don't know how, if you know, this whole thing of stopping USAID terrifies me.
It's not only because we lost $400,000 at the parents circle from a project that was supported by usaid, but I'm thinking about the food kitchens and the children and I can't, you know, I can't come to terms. It's not all about money. Yeah. There's also love. There's also caring, there's also supporting. It can't all be about me, and that terrifies me because I couldn't believe when I saw the picture of two guys on a ladder tearing down the signs of U-S-A-I-D something.
You should have been so proud of, such wonderful work all over the world. Yeah. Don't stop that generosity. Hmm. That's a good word, my friend. I'm grateful for you and your life. Love and leadership is a beacon of hope. and I know that you don't stand alone. You stand No, we are 800 people. That 800 families. yeah. A community of folk who are living the hopeful alternative to violence and conflict. And we're grateful for you. We're grateful for your leadership and for your friendship.
Thank you for the time that you just spent with us. It's a great gift. Yeah. Bye. friends, as we close, I wanna invite you to reflect on the relationships you've been taught to avoid and fear and resist. Who is your other? Who is your constructed enemy? What story might change if you listened instead of labeled. The work of mending divides is not abstract. It's not for the distant conflict zones over there. It's local, it's personal, and it requires listening from the heart.
If Robi's words moved you. We encourage you to learn more about the Parents Circle Families Forum, and to share this conversation with others. You can find more resources and upcoming learning opportunities at globalimmerse.org. Until next time, stay curious, stay courageous, and keep showing up.