Hey guys, and happy Mardi Gras to all of you. That's right, it is Fat Tuesday. They are celebrating parades in my hometown of New Orleans. So once again, happy Mardi Gras to everyone. Welcome to episode 161 of Maple. To Maple, it is worker bees and worker placement. So today we're exploring a truly sweet new title that's going to be coming to Kickstarter soon, and that's APIs Milafera. It's inspired by the amazing world of bees. This game combines the beauty of nature with the strategy of
worker placement. You're going to take on the role of a hive leader, managing your colony of industrious worker bees, gathering nectar, crafting honey, all while navigating the challenges that could either make or break your hive. Bees make the perfect workers for your worker placement game. Today I've got Henry from APIs Gaming Corp. Henry, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing, PJ? This is fantastic. Thanks for joining. I really appreciate it.
Recently we talked about, I want to say it was last week, it might have been the week before, I talked about how this podcast marries really well with play testing of prototypes, and this is a perfect example. You sent me a prototype of APIs Melifera. We played it a couple times and I got to experience it. We shipped it off to the next person and now here we are. We're going to talk about your game. Yeah, I know. I think a lot of the the content creation really ties well in
with prototypes. I think that's actually How I Met you. As we are play testing another prototype for my cousin, I see his game right behind you his his expansion for Time Lancers. That's right, that's right. That was a Gen. Con last years. Yeah, that was that was fun. We didn't get a chance to play your game, but I'm glad you were willing to stick it out with me and send me a copy. And we did. My wife and I play a lot of games together, just the two of us. So we did play it at 2:00.
We had our local game group over, so we played it at 4:00 as well. So we got kind of experience the game and it it's pretty incredible. But I want to start, tell me about you and your how did you get into the modern gaming hobby yourself? So I myself started playing games when I was actually really young. So my dad was a big war game
person, a strategy game person. So like I was playing very complicated war games that were like made in the 70s and 80s when I was like a teenager with my dad. So, you know, you had a weird balance of like, oh, I would play Monopoly one night with the family and then another night I'm playing, you know, the Third Reich, which is a giant World War 2 strategy game that takes like 4 hours to play.
I really started expanding beyond those kind of games in college where we, you know, we learned the games are more popular at Catan to get tried and then we jump to Twilight Imperium as a group. And so that's it really was it. We, we talked about all the time where we won, you know, in college we would play it for six hours one night, like it just stay up all night doing it. And then after that, we've kind of played a lot more games since then. I asked this just about everyone.
Do you have a favorite game of all time that you enjoy playing? Or if not, do you have a game that you enjoy playing like right now? Yes, all time would be Twilight Imperium. OK, and maybe it's cuz I haven't been able to play it enough to be sick of it yet, but that's just cuz it's hard to get, you know, four people to commit six hours of their day, you know what I mean? But Imperium is my favorite game of all time.
I would say right now my favorite game to play aside from APIs Mel Fiera. My game would be a Viticulture or Terraforming Mars. Like those are the two I've been playing a lot lately. So I know that APIs really is, at its core a worker placement game. I mean, it has other elements and we'll definitely get into that. Is worker placement a favorite of yours? Favorite mechanic? Or like what gravity? What gravitated you towards that
mechanic and that theme? Yeah, it's actually one of our my favorites and one of my business partner Drew's favorites. And what gravitated toward that theme was I was telling Drew that my cousin Kenny makes board games and tell him about Time Lancers. And he's like, well, I have an idea for a game. And it was BC. And I was like, well, you know, you make an outline and I'd like it, we'll go into business, we'll make it together. And he did. And I was like, this got a lot of potential.
Like this is very enjoyable. And so we've been working on it ever since. And it just happens that worker placement goes very well with BS. And it is both of our favorite type of game. So, and I guess I should say hello, Drew. Sorry you weren't able to make it on the show. Drew is he, does he keep bees like outside of his designing of a game, is that something that he does?
Yeah. So it started off as a hobby for him where he would actually keep bees, and he actually made Mead, you know, like a wine that's based out of honey. So he did as a hobby and then eventually found a position, a job position that doesn't do it for a living. So he's like a regional manager of different beekeepers. And so all the science in the game is based on his knowledge of beekeeping. Wow, wow, that's I didn't realize like you could make a living keeping bees.
That's that's. Kind of cool. A lot of businesses are really getting into this, you know, that green movement. And so they'll bring in, you know, people to bring in beehives and then they'll need people to manage those beehives when they're on their property. So you get some like tax benefits for it. And it's also a good public image thing. And these are just an important part of our ecosystem in
general. And so Drew manages a lot of the part time beekeepers that keep those hives together. So he'll work with other businesses like, hey, we'd like some hives here. We'll coordinate to get him the equipment, find somebody to manage that hive locally. So he handages like a whole southeast region. I think that's. That's cool. We have a a colleague in our professional world outside of gaming who also keeps bees as a hobby.
I was thinking a lot about that and asking him a lot of questions when I was looking at the prototype of APIs. And I was like, hey man, is this like, you know, And I was telling him about he's like, that sounds amazing. I'm like, right, who knew? Right, Who knew? Yeah, I mean, when we were at Gen. Con, one of our play testers specifically, we did the the play test room and when somebody specifically signed up for it because they were a beekeeper and they loved it.
And that's kind of our exposures like people that keep bees that really love this because we put a lot of we really try to build the mechanics in the game around the science beekeeping. And that was kind of where we came together where Drew would have the idea of like, hey, this is how it works in real life. And I'm like, OK, well, we have to match that with how we can mechanically make it an enjoyable game. And so that was kind of the the creative path that we took.
So Drew presents you his idea, right? And did you know what the theme was before he meant? Yeah, he just said it was going to be bees. A bee themed worker placement. That was all he said. OK, so the only thing you knew was, hey, I've got this game that I'm designed and it's a bee themed worker placement. That's all you know, right? So there's your slate. So then you get it and it's about keeping bees. And I assume you don't know anything about this.
What was your initial reaction when you when you saw this? Yeah, I know. I I didn't know anything about bees, I'll be honest, except for I knew that he had bees and that he made meat out of bees, which I have drank his meat, which is great, right? But when I saw it, I was just like, as he was explaining to me, I was like, oh, OK, what is this, though? And he kept explaining the science of it. I'm like, OK, I see how this is
all connecting. And it really started to formulate in my head of how to really change the game to make it such a a compelling play that people would want to play it again and again. So like you, I went into it cold, not knowing. And I really, I mean, at this point, I know I probably can keep a lot of bees because I know a lot of, right? So, so that's interesting because I was wondering this myself.
You think that if you've played this game enough, the knowledge would transfer to the real world. Yes. However, I don't think you could just play this game and then be able to raise a hive. The reason I know it is because I had to ask those in depth questions to make sure I understood it.
You know what I mean? Like I didn't want to create a product that I didn't fully understand the science behind it. So in the process of creating this game, I think I could keep beehives quite successfully. But yeah, if you just play it, I don't know if you'd be qualified to do it. But I will say there are a lot of easy ways to get involved in beekeeping.
A lot of associations in every state and local areas that you can go to. I live here in Asheville, NC and they have a beekeeping club that meets and talks about different problems and helps you start your hives if you want. Did you, did you reach out to that organization in the process of making the game to educate yourself and did you share the prototype with them to get their feedback?
We've reached out to a few beekeeping associations, but we didn't give them a prototype yet, but we plan on to. So we've talked to a couple. I live in North Carolina and so I talked to the North Carolina association. I've also there's a local one that I plan on going to and kind of introducing it, but they kind of been on pause for the winter. So that's kind of part of it. Sure.
Yeah, but Drew is he does a lot of the beekeeping networking, so in Georgia and all of the his business ties like he kind of talks about like and he gets their feedback too like hey, what do you think of this? Does this make sense to you as a non board gamer but a beekeeper and things like.
That I think that what I've observed recently is some of the really hot, the hot games that people don't realize or the kind of the they're not really sleepers, but are games that appeal to the non gamers as well as the gamers, right? And I I think APIs achieves that based on my experience, right. And for those of you watching, Please note that I did play a prototype. So we have no idea what the amount of products are going to look like.
You know, once once you got it all cleaned up, I can only imagine it's just going to be the Sky's the limit from there. So tell me about the process you so you get started. Drew's giving you his idea the plan Where did it all begin? It's. Important to know we live, we've always lived in two different states since we started this
project. So when it first started, I lived in Florida, he lived in Georgia still, he still lives in Georgia. So it started on Zoom back in 2021, you know, and it was on PowerPoint. So basically we did have a, you know, a knowledge of how to make table tops and everything yet. So we basically just have PowerPoint slides and one of us, like usually me, would move around little bees onto the spot, little pictures of them. And then we would just keep track of the tally of of the
resources and things like that. What then then developed into is we did a business trip and we actually made a little prototype of like a poster board and a little sticky notes, you know, your standard, how you actually start a board game thing. And that that was kind of how it all started. So in the process you you're going to be launching on, you're going to be launching on Kickstarter, right?
Is that correct? Yeah, when at some point you you're you're ready to pull that trigger and I know it's coming up. It hasn't, it hasn't launched yet. But what made you decide to go with a crowd funding platform as opposed to reaching out to a publisher? Maybe you did reach out to publishers and have them publish it and sell the rights off rather than self-publishing. Because that that's a really interesting conversation and I've gotten a lot of different
answers from designers. Well, so admittedly we started from the very beginning thinking Kickstarter, I think mainly because that was what we were used to. You know, we'd, I had backed games on Kickstarter before my cousin had done his games on Kickstarter. So that was what I was familiar with a couple years ago. The idea of pitching it to a publisher came up at a convention in Georgia was a convention specifically for game designers to pitch their games to publishers.
We'd never really thought about it. So we're like, yeah, we'll try it and see what it's like. And I think we realized that we want too much artistic control over the game that we don't want to change. And so even though we had some good conversations with publishers, we never found anything that we really wanted to to work with because we didn't want to lose that control. We wanted to really stay to the
theme of beekeeping. And I know there are other games out there that once you get pitched to publisher, they're going to change stuff the way they want it. And we just, we didn't want to lose that. It's our it's our passion project. Yeah, so, so tell everyone about let's let's talk about the game itself, right? So when someone backs the game and hits the table, you know, it's finished, fulfilled, it's launched, everything's great, everything's happened and it
reaches their table. What can they expect when they open the box? So when they can, when they open the box, they should first expect to be hit with what they saw on the pictures of a a very pretty game that is very gentle and easy to kind of pick up. So even though it's AI would say a, a worker placement is naturally going to be a little bit heavier of a game. What we found is it's a lot
easier to learn. You know, when we send it to a few people to do tests, play tests and previews, they're like, yeah, they picked it up in like 20 minutes. It suffers from at the very beginning the the thing all worker placement stuff suffer from, which is that, you know, too many options to do right, analysis paralysis. But once you start immediately starts flowing and then it just is easy after that. So I think people would open it.
They're going to look at me like, oh, this is beautiful. They set it all up. You know, maybe they're like, oh man, there's a lot going on. But once they've learned how to do it in like 10-15 minutes, it'll be they'll be smooth sailing right after that. And so that that's kind of what we wanted was a a vibe that was very nature specific. Think Wingspan thinks of those kind of games but a worker placement that also wasn't too hard for your non gamers to play
like one. That would be have a meat to it, but also be easy to learn. So it's it's really similar. Now, this is all contingent upon not too many changes based off the prototype that I saw. So I can only speak from that. But you're going to have the main board in front of you. There's for seasoned gamers, there won't be any surprises, places where you will place your workers, get resources, things like that. But talk about the player boards. They're probably my favorite
part of the game. Describe those two. Yeah, so like you said, that there's going to be a shared game board, which is like the world. You send your bees out to the world. Well, your player board is your hive, and there's two parts to the hive. You have the actual hive structure, which is kind of shaped and designed like an actual beehive. And then on the other side would be different actions that bees would do within their hive.
And so you have this really fun thing where you have waxed out frames because bees will basically take wooden frames that beekeepers give them, wax them out and then hold stuff in them. And then beekeepers can also expand their hives, stack them up higher. That's why you see some hives that are short, some that are
really tall, things like that. And so then on the other side would be the actions the bees would be doing in the hives, things like turning the resources they got into honey, you know, it's the most common one, laying eggs to make more bees, those kind of things. And so every player board, it has their own unique actions that no one else can take. But then the game, the shared game board, the world is your traditional work replacement where if someone takes a spot,
nobody else can take that. With a few exceptions, of course. I think what's really cool about the the player board in front of you is you were talked about it a little bit, the wooden frame and they will would you say wax it out wax. It out. Yeah, that's that's kind of what we call it. Yeah. So as an action, you can wax out your frame and you take basically beeswax. The bees will make beeswax and then they wax out the wood
that's in there. Now those wax frames can hold resources the way that hives normally would hold resources. So you can expand your hive and that's going to give you access to more resources, right? Yep. It can hold more resources, allow you to do more things, and of course, the larger your hive goes, the more resources you need to keep your bees alive. So. Because they need to eat. So yeah.
What about? If I recall, you only start with a small number of bees and there are ways to gain more to do more actions in future rounds. Yeah, so a lot of worker placements will slowly grow your amount of workers. Think Fees for Odin, where you'll get one extra worker every round. In this game, you make your workers by either laying eggs, which will hatch into new peoples, or you can buy some from the beekeeper.
And that's a pretty common actual bee practice is, you know, a lot of people hear about buying Queens. So if you're a new beekeeper, you might acquire a queen from another seller, but you'll need some bees to also go with that queen. And so you can buy bees for a little bit cheaper of a price. In the real world and in the game, you buy bees and add it to your hive. And so this is, like you said, this is something that really happens. Beekeepers do this.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If you're a new beekeeper, like you can't just put out a hive and hope a bee occupies it. I mean, there's a small chance that might happen. But in general, if you're a new beekeeper, you'll purchase a queen, and usually it comes with some bees of some sort. And then you kind of you purchase all the equipment and you kind of introduce the queen to the hive, and then it slowly grows from there. But most beekeepers will start by buying what they need.
Right. So for those of you who like me, have no idea how beekeeping works, but you've seen it. There's the big box, right? There's like a wooden box. And then you, you will see the beekeepers, they pull out the slats of wood, right? And and that's, that's essentially what the player board is, right? Is that is that slat of wood? Is there a name for that? I can't remember. That's a a frame. A-frame. So yeah, that's a so a wooden
frame. And most wooden frames will have like this little substance in it that kind of starts the hexagon shapes for the bees, makes a little bit easier for them, and then the bees just kind of pile into the wax on that. Yeah, and that and that's what you're building up on your player board your. Yes, yes. Waxing out, I believe you. Yep.
If building it, you take the wooden frames, you wax them out, you're building up that hive size and then there's an empty space in there that you can also expand by in the game, paying the beekeeper honey. That's kind of the transaction that you have and the beekeeper will slide some more wood in so that you can wax more out and and hold more stuff. What is it to your mind that makes your game APIs Mellifera stand out from other worker placement games?
Obviously seasoned gamers are going to be like, do I really need another worker placement? Obviously the short answer is yes. What What makes your game stand out from other worker placements? First, I think the vibe of it, a lot of worker placements there, they have their own unique vibe that they bring to the table.
And I, I haven't seen a worker placement that brings that natural, the natural feeling, that nature feeling almost like an educational vibe in a way that's just not as common in worker placements. So I think that's the first part. I think the second part is it's going to be a worker placement that you can also play with friends that might not have played worker placements before.
And I think that's huge, right? Like we all have gaming groups that we play and certain people like certain games and maybe you have a a group of friends that likes to play those real casual games and you really want to get them into the better, harder core games. You know, you want to sit there for four hours and really grind it. Terraforming Mars or something. Well, I think this game is a great, you know, turn my boys use the gateway game.
So those games that are that level to really introduce them to a new level of game. And then you, you know, before they know it now, they're suddenly they're sitting playing Feast for Odin for 2 1/2 hours with you, you know? Right. So is it safe to say that you, you, it is your intention, your hope that your game would be the perfect gateway worker placement game?
Yeah, absolutely. I I think that is a great thing to say, a gateway worker placement game that is still challenging enough for experienced players that you're going to enjoy. Let's take that a step further, right? New gamers, they play APIs, they they love it and they're ready to move to the next thing. Is there a second game that already exists, that's already in your mind that you're like, man, you know, people love this and they're going to love. That's a great question.
I think viticulture is a the theming of viticulture will appeal to people that are newer to worker placement. So if you've played APIs, then moving to viticulture because it's making wine and that's always fun too. I think you could also go into the more classics of Agricula or if he's throwed in or architects of the West Kingdoms and other worker placement. I love. I think those are all relatively easy.
That would be the next step. But if I had to pick one and be viticulture, I think be the next step. So go from making honey to making wine. Exactly. I see what you're doing there. So will there be either in the Kickstarter as a stretch goal or as an add on or a future project? Will there be an expansion where you can make Mead from the honey? Because I don't remember that being a component of the game. That's a great question.
And if that was to happen, that would be an expansion of some sort because right now you play as a hive. So that would be more of focused if you're playing as the beekeeper, what you do with the honey afterwards. So yeah, we're not working on that now, but we we want to see where we go with this project before we commit to other things. So we have a lot of ideas, including something like that. Was there and and since Drew's not here, if you know this answer, I'll ask this of Drew as
well. But for the both of you, was there a game or a series of games that you drew your inspiration from when designing this one? For sure, I can say for the vibe that we wanted players to feel just by looking at it, something like Wingspan. Like we love nature games, we love nature. And I would say Wingspan is a really good gateway game too, one that is easy to teach new people.
It's visually appealing. So a lot of non traditional board gamers will want to play it, but also the people that are hardcore gamers still enjoy playing Wingspan. I haven't met somebody that doesn't enjoy Wingspan yet. They might be out there, but I haven't met them. Right. And so the vibe of Wingspan and then we wanted the mental challenge of any worker placement that we enjoy. You know, the games that we like
with Feast Rd. in inspired us, especially with the how you feel in your frame versus how you feel in your player board and Feast Rd. in various things like that. I I think those are the kind of things that inspired us. Yeah, so we established that Drew is a professional beekeeper. What about his experience in gaming? So Drew is an experienced gamer. He showed me a few games, some of those worker placements early
on, many years ago. So Drew and I, we met actually in Afghanistan. We're both in the Army and we met him. We were showed up and was like when we talked about things we're interested in and video games, board games or that. And then we moved to Georgia after we finished our, our tour and we played a lot of games there. So the early games that we play, we played all the different versions of Risk.
We, I showed him games like Twilight Imperium, you know, Katan, we played a lot of and we really got into work replacements at that time. So did he, I'm assuming you guys talked about it. Was there a specific game that inspired him, or was this game inspired by his life outside of gaming? Yeah, so I, I think his life outside of gaming, really what inspired him was beekeeping.
He wanted, don't get me wrong, playing the games and loving games inspired him to want to make one, but the idea of making a bee themed game I think was really inspired by by his passion for for nature and for beasts. I think that you both managed to do something. I, I preach this all the time. It's, it's all about the, the sacrament of marriage between theme and mechanics. And when it's done well, it is done really well. And I think you guys have managed to execute that
brilliantly. Thank you. You really get the impression that, I mean, yes, it's a worker placement for seasoned gamers. We know how worker placements go, Yes, of course. But it's like the theme really, and especially the science behind it really informs how the mechanics work in the game so that you can do the things that would be done. And it's all adhering to the real world applications of that theme. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Yeah, I mean, so first, I think, and Drew would agree with me on this, that seems are what make a game. I I know you have to have the base, you have to have a game that actually works well, right. You can have a cool theme and if the game doesn't work well, it's not fun. But in order to make a game fun, functional, to enjoyable, you need a good scene. And I played a lot of games that is some are very popular with with gamers. And I'm like, I just the scene doesn't appeal to me.
And so, yeah. And when it came to making this, there were sometimes where we had Drew kind of brought that thematic, the science, the expertise to it. And I kind of brought because while Drew plays games, I play a
lot, I play a lot of games. And so I kind of brought that practical, you know, player based thought of mechanics into it. And there were times we had to butt heads on things and compromise to make sure that the game is still enjoyable, but tried to be, as you know, true to the theme as we possibly could. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it was executed brilliantly. I again, I talk about this all the time. My absolute favorite game of all time, which I haven't mentioned in probably 2 episodes.
So let's talk about it is Obsession, which marries the theme and the mechanics so well. And if you strip them away, then they're just kind of BLOB, put them together and it's just gold. I really enjoyed the experience of playing APIs. That was just was really incredible and I thank you for that. Well, thank you for playing it. We're we're very appreciative.
Honestly, that's probably the most fun thing is when some people play our game and they tell us that they enjoyed it like because it's a passion project of ours. And so every time someone says that we enjoyed it as well, it's like, that's awesome. That's what we want is we want we've made this thing that we think is really fun, enjoyable, We really love. And if other people love it too,
that it's very rewarding. So I want to ask you about the actual process, the behind the scenes of making a board game. What was your favorite aspect of the entire project working on this? Well, I, I will say one small thing I love, we love the different peoples that we've used in the past. So the little pieces, the very first ones we used were these little tiny circle bees. I'll see if I got some photos of them to send it to you. But like these little tiny like scrapbooking bees that, you
know, we bought. So we love them. And even our the early play testers that were doing the real rough version of friends and family were like, oh, these are so adorable. And so that kind of stuck with us if like we need to make sure we like the bee pieces and there's some other bee games out there that, you know, they're enjoyable bee and we we love bees, right? So we love playing games with bees, but their pieces aren't they didn't feel right in our mind.
And so we're trying to make people. And so honestly, that's part of it. The peoples in the prototype were made by this really nice couple who have a wood making business out of California. So we bought those custom for that. We'll I'll have to make sure that we keep in the main game the that design into the actual manufacturing of it. So I would say making the beefles was probably my favorite part of it. Just the every time we use them,
it's just, it's great. Well now comes the follow up question of what was the absolute worst part of this experience? That you are just you never want to repeat this again. Like it was just terrible and you hated it. Were we talking just making the game, or everything that involves A Kickstarter at the game? The whole thing from the moment Drew approaches you until, well, today, since Kickstarter hasn't happened yet. But yeah, was it one thing that just really you? It really pained you.
Social media and meta ads like, Oh my gosh, OK, so neither one of us are very big social media people, but you kind of have to be in order to market a game. And then so unfortunately in the division of work, that kind of fell on me because Drew didn't even have certain social medias and I did, you know, and I don't
know that is a unfun experience. I I do appreciate and I love watching content creators, but I don't know, I, I'm not really, I don't want to be out there in media very often, admittedly, to then turn that into like, OK, now I have to not only, you know, post occasion on social media, now I have to figure out how to make ads that will show other people the game so they'll be interested in it. It's just non enjoyable
experience. And in particular, Meta's advertising tool is not user friendly to people that never done it before. OK, well, there you have it. I, I love that. Thank. Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate that. So if, if you had a friend or a colleague, anyone as approaching you, they've got an idea for a game just much like Drew did, and they're thinking about designing a game. What advice do you have for a first time game design?
The best advice, and we've received this from other game designers, is really figure out what is your goal for this game. If your goal is just to make a game that you and your friends and family can enjoy, you know, that's kind of very different than if hey, I want to make a game and release it and get a
lot of people out there. And knowing what your goal is will also help you understand really the full task that you're taking on. Because if you're just making a game for you and your friends and family, you know, you only need one copy of it. Your own copy get printed play or one of those small board game makers just to make an individual copy and that's it. I mean, you know, you made it an art passion project and you can enjoy it with your friends and
family. But if you're, if you're really like, hey, I have this idea for this game, I want to share it with the world. Want to get it out there? Well then know that there's a lot of things that go on with it, like marketing and meta ads and a Kickstarter process and getting manufacturers and fulfilment and all those different things behind the scenes that admittedly we weren't as prepared for when we started this project. Yeah, so talk to me about the community of board game
designers, right? I mean, obviously your cousin designed game, they're working on their expansion. Then I know they got some other projects going on, but how well were you received your idea received when you were reaching out to other designers just to be like help? Yeah, the game designers are really, at least our experience are really supportive of each other. First of all, one of the conventions I mentioned is
called Proto ATL. Basically the whole thing is just a whole bunch of game designers where you play test each other's games and you get honest feedback from that. And that's great because a lot of times your friends and family, you know, they love you. So they're not going to tell you all the mean things. You know, maybe they'll be like, well, this much, I didn't enjoy it this much. Whatever. Another public, another game maker will sit there and be like, yeah, this really was not
good. I did not enjoy this. But and you know, at that time, it's like a punch to the gut, but it's very appreciative because it comes out of a place of like, hey, they want to help you succeed. And so they see that's what they view as a flaw and they want to address it with you. And additionally, you know, and I want to, I'll throw out a few shout outs. There's, you know, my cousin has been extremely helpful, but he's
family, right? So you might think, well, he has to be. But there's another game designer. He made a game called Ultra Massive. It's a black hole themed board game. He did his Kickstarter last year. My name's Alex, super great, helpful. He would log on the calls with us, be like, yeah, this is what I did. This is how we did it. These are the challenges that we had. Give us feedback on things like the graphic design of stuff because that's kind of what he
does by his day job. Another shout out to James from Pocket Parks, a game that just recently got funded on Kickstarter. James took the time to do Discord calls with us and kind of walk us through some of the challenges that we had. So like overall, the game design community is very supportive of each other and I think that is great. And we try to pay that back too, whenever people have questions from us.
That's fantastic. I'm, I'm really pleased to hear that because yeah, I feel like sometimes as content creators, we kind of get, we get lost in the, you know, there's multiple sub communities, there's the content creator community, then there's this, the gamers, right? And then there's the designers and there's the publishers. And I'm really trying to incorporate all of them on the show, which is why you're on
that. And I got the prototype of your game and play it, which I love play testing. So I want to talk about really quickly, how easy was it for you and or drew for that matter, to open yourselves up and allow yourselves to be vulnerable to constructive criticism? Like how difficult was that for you? So it can be, you know, a little bit of a anxiety inducing to start, I will say. But once you do it the first time, then it gets a lot easier and you take that feedback and
you improve your game. And pretty soon people don't have a lot of negative feedback. They're small things might be like, oh, well, you know, the production of this. And and then in your mind, you're like, OK, well, it's a prototype. You know what I mean? This isn't the final product, right? I only got so much money to spend to make a new version every 5-5 weeks, right? But I think, yeah, it's exactly it's it could be like you could build it up in your head.
But the moment you do it, I think it makes it a lot easier. Like, you get out of the way that first game with a bunch of strangers, they give you bad feedback, you know? You go to the hotel bar, grab a drink real quick, come back out, and then you're back out there playing more games and you feel good, you know? So it sounds like, and this is not surprising, it sounds like it's it's up to the individual how well they receive the feedback, whether good or bad.
Yes, absolutely. And I always want to emphasize and we always say this when anytime we play test anybody's game, it's like, hey, like we it's this is going to be set out of constructive criticism for your benefit. So we, it's not that we have anything against it and we're here to try to help you make your game better. And so when you approach that mindset of like, hey, they're only trying to help you, it's a lot easier. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
So when is when's the game coming to Kickstarter? So we're hoping to launch in the spring. We're keeping that, you know, a little bit flexible whether it be the end of March or or early April based on where we are with our numbers. And part of that marketing is your, you have certain numbers that you want to try to beat before you launch to make sure that you'll get backed on time. So in the spring though is springtime. For you, do you have a page that folks can follow on Kickstarter
now or have have you? We do have a Kickstarter pre launch page and we have a we have a pre launch page and then we have an e-mail sign up that people can sign up. If they want to do our e-mail list. They can also do it the one of the $1.00 reservations that they'll get a custom bead that seemed die that'll go with their game when they back in on Kickstarter. OK, so here comes your favorite part. OK, because you've already said it's not your favorite.
So tell everyone where they can find you on all the social platforms and where they can find and back APIs mellifera when it launches. Absolutely. So we on Instagram, we are APIs Gaming LLC on our Kickstarter. If you just simply search for APIs Melifera the B game or just APIs Melifera, it's probably going to pop up. But APIs Melifera the B game, you'll find our pre launch page. And then on our web, our website isapislaunch.apisgameapisboardgaming.com.
And I'll, I'll make sure I, I send you the links too, because they're a little bit longer and that way people can just look at them instead of trying to listen to what I'm saying. Yeah, we will definitely have all that in the in the links below. Well, Henry, thank you so much for this was really cool. Thanks for letting me be a part of the play testing experience. This game is really interesting guys. Take a look at it, go to the pre
launch page, see what you think. There's some great pictures on Instagram. I've got it up on my phone right now taking a look at it. Give them a like and a follow as well if you can. And please send us comments. Be sure to like and subscribe the channel. And here's the question for you. What is your favorite worker placement game? Send that to us in the comments after you listen to this. Once again, be kind to one another and let's play more games. Absolutely. Thanks, PJ.