E132. GenCon Your Way

Welcome to episode 132, where cardboard dreams become real life adventures. In this episode, we're diving head first into Gen. Con, the best four days in gaming. But let's be real, with 10s of thousands of attendees, jam packed event halls and non-stop meetups, it could be just as overwhelming as it is exhilarating. We're going to unpack everything

you need to know to prep. From navigating social anxiety and respecting table etiquette to knowing when to roll initiative and just take a breather. From packing the best snacks to staying hydrated, and most importantly, knowing where the secret bathrooms are located. Whether it's your first time or your 50th, this is your ultimate survival guide to making Gen. Con memorable without melting down. So let's hit the exhibit hall running with our backpack strapped, our confidence

equipped. It's quiet corners and confident choices. Navigating Gen. Con your way today. I've asked Drew Denning to join me. Drew, how are you this morning 0? I'm doing mighty fine, Mighty fine. And let me just say that intro was absolutely beautiful. My gosh. All right, PJ, how are you doing? That's the. Right question. You know what? Thank you. I'm great. I'm great. Now that you're here, I also want to apologize to you and

thank you for your patience. We were supposed to do this back in May and I got sick and so I'm finally got us rescheduled. But I'm glad we did because Gen. Con's like in two or three days. So and so it's a perfect time for us to talk about this. Absolutely. Well, I'm just, I'm just glad that you're feeling better. I just, I just, I'm glad that you were able to get over that and that you were able to meet with me. So I'm absolutely super, super

excited for this. We have a, we have a good portion to talk about and so we do and so, but I'll go ahead and let you let you let you take the floor of it. So let me hear. Yeah, this is. So for folks who don't know, Drew, I brought you on because you have a unique perspective to Gen. Con, let's say myself and a lot of, I mean, yeah, OK, I go with the lens of a podcaster now as opposed to a few years ago. But most of my listeners, if they're either content creators

or they're just gamers, right. So you go to Gen. Con for work, for your employment, and that is a perspective that we don't necessarily get when we're hanging out at the game table or we're chatting, you know, over coffee in the morning or, you know, whatnot. And so that's why I asked you one because I just think you bring it, you bring a perspective that I think it's

worth talking about. Of course, PJ, I for myself, I would simply say that I would love nothing more than to go to Gen. Con for myself and for my social media. And yeah, if I did a podcast for my podcast, but I don't so, but I would love nothing more than to do that. But there is a work aspect where I'm being paid to go to Gen. Con and to be there and be active. And the goal, the goal of course, being sales as I'm a sales Rep for a manufacturer.

One of the one of the things that a lot of people don't see or notice is just like how busy people actually are.

And so I don't know if anybody's ever felt that when they go and they sit back and they talk with publishers, you know, even people that you're friends with, like there's a lot of times where you just walk on by and you're like, hey, good to see you, you know, walk, walk on by. And that's, and that's really it. The other side to that is there also other side of that is just like there's times where we just can't like talk to people like I, I can't, I'm in, I'm in the

moment. I'm in a business meeting. I have to bounce from meeting to meeting and have to schedule things. It's actually really funny because this year I've actually scheduled to have lunch with a friend of mine. Like I had to schedule it. I said, I have to put this down. We're going on Friday to have lunch. And so it's just, it's just so funny that like, it has to go down to that minute detail. Sure of, yeah, of hey, this is when I can have time.

And so and, and the person I'm going to eat lunch with, they said, hey, it's just going to be you and me. We're just going to take a breather. It's going to be fine, you know, things like that. And I'm like, please, you know, that would be lovely. But one of the things as well that I will get into a little bit more and discuss on is when I, I'm famously known for not liking drink con. I make it very public and we'll get into that a little more. You do.

We will get into that a little more, but I would say that a good portion of the reason why is because mostly it is a little bit business related, right? And I'm the one for my team that's taking care of everything.

And it's really difficult to, it's very difficult if you don't have a booth like as a business, whether you're a designer, a publisher or manufacturing, whatever that you, whatever you fit the bill of, it's very hard to get the right correct, like, like people to work with you from Gen. Con. And then that's not a, that's not a, that's not a bash on Gen. Con. There are good people that work at Gen. Con. It's just, it's just like pulling teeth to for a simple question.

And I'll get into more of that in just a moment. But yes, there is a different perspective that a lot of people don't really consider in that. Now there are some things where it is social, where it is a bit of social anxiety. I will dig into that as well. I've also spoke on that about how like, Oh my goodness, I'm gonna trip. I'm gonna trip over one of these wagons. I'm gonna get knocked out by an all play backpack.

I'm gonna get Yep, I'm gonna be shoulder to shoulder with somebody who hadn't showered in three days. You know, it's just, it's one of those things where it's just like, MMM, OK, Do I really do I really enjoy that aspect of it when you know, I'm like, hey, like I, you know, it's great. I, you know, I'm happy that y'all are here. Y'all have areas to play and things are going on but like you know hey like please take a shower like.

It's yes, yes, this is your. We already know this is Yeah, this is your service announcement number one for Gen. Con. It's imperative that you shower once a day, guys. Yeah, we say it all the time, but we're going to continue to say it until you start doing it. Absolutely. That's great. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter when you do it. Morning. Evening exactly Sometime please. Yes, yes and yes. And pack extra deodorant too. It doesn't help.

It doesn't help that Gen. Con is scheduled at like the hottest time of the year in Indianapolis, right? I mean, I understand. I understand. Like, you know, the, the challenge when I talk to people that that have never been to Gen. Con, which is crazy to me, but OK. So the problem is that even Gen. Con is located at an inconvenient time because a lot of part of the at least in the United States, school's starting.

And so for folks who have kids, they can't go to Gen. Con because their kids are starting school. And I'm like, what? Which is surprising to me. Then why isn't Origins, which is right in the middle of June? Why is it not the bigger convention? Or why isn't Gen. Con in June? I get it, I'm not in charge of schedules and calendars, but

right? I agree 100% with that because I, you know, you know, that's, that's the one thing and you were at Origins PJ and was I, I hear, I hear this quite often from people that I'm either having meetings with or people who are, who are publishing friends and things of that nature. They always tell me the same thing, that their sales may not have been good. Even even the big guys, even the big ones, yeah, big publishers, they said the cells are not that good at origins.

Because the common thing is, is people continue to say I'm waiting for Gen. Con. I'm waiting for Gen. Con. And it was actually really interesting the sales tactic that a lot of people use this year. My favorite one was there's a there is a team called Fox Hen Creative. They are. They made a game called Trash Cult that came out. I do believe it was last year or the year, year before.

Yeah. And it was was it, I'm really good friends with them because they, they work with me quite often, whether I'm doing reviews for them or anything of that nature. The funny thing was, is, you know, they didn't get a booth. And so they, I started to tell a lot of people they didn't get a booth at gin con. So they're like, hey, we won't be a gin con. So you either buy it here or you don't. That's a way to. And they improve themselves. I'm like, hey, that's, that's fantastic.

That's a great sales tactic. So I think that I think that that's something that people definitely have to overcome in that barrier because like we can't take away from what Gin Con is on this side of the world. Gin Con is if you are AUS publisher and you have a booth or anything of that nature, you have exponentially like the most like public viewing to anyone in the in the entire like anytime that you could have. That's why that there's so many

releases. That's why people are doing all these fun publishers are doing all these fun different things like Pandasaurus. I love their content. I love what they're putting out right now. It's a absolutely Gen. Con. Yeah. And I'm just, I know I'm name dropping a lot of a lot of people here, PJ. OK, it's fine. But, but I, I like, I like the creative outlets and ideas that people have.

Like there's, there's good things inherently in Gen. Con. I'm not going to sit here and say, oh, it's the worst show ever. Oh my God, it's it's frustrating for me. Yes, right. There's a couple of frustrations, but that doesn't take away the fact that there are some absolute positives that could be on that end. And sometimes for me, like I said, it's personal or it's business. So it's a it's a matter of that. Hopefully that answered your question through that.

Sure. So do you think the reason? Well, I'm, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I think the main challenge, what I'm, what I'm hearing, the main challenge for you is that there's a line between work and play. And you are Gen. Con by its nature. And this is true of every convention. They are social, but you're there to work. So there's a mindset that you've got to maintain. There's a boundary you've got to maintain, but your friends and your fans, I'm sure you run into that too.

You just have the fans who absorb your content and like, Oh my God, welcome to boredom, right? They don't, they don't see that, right? So they're on the other side and they can't see that line and you have to somehow balance that. And that has got to be emotionally draining and stressful. It's pretty, it's pretty stressful. There's a handful of people that I can keep that balance with because they know, oh, Drew's silly online. I know Drew because he's came to these shows before and we've

hung out. There's a variety of people who know me for this. And then they put me into this tight little box of this is how I know Drew. I know Drew through manufacturing. I know Drew through content. I know Drew through just being Drew because like I'll be out eating or you know, whatever. And I'm just introducing myself to people and just having a

having a good time. For example, at Origins, I had a friend who invited me to supper and they were, they were, they apparently invited 20 people to it. And I actually, besides him, besides him, I knew no one. Oh my God. But I ended up having just a great conversation, great time with them. They were designers, they were publishers. They worked for large publishers. And one of them was there were two of them from two people from Tantrum House. I think, I think, I apologize, I

don't know. I know Tantrum Con, but I don't know their channel. I apologize. I'm not familiar with their work as much as I should, but they were they were the 2. They were two lovely people. And so and to me, to me, like, that's how they know me. They just know me because, hey, we broke bread together and so, and so they may not know me because of, of my content. They may not know me because of this.

So like there, there is an aspect and then like I said earlier there there's, there's a way that I can mesh all of that together and just be myself with with a good handful of people. Right, right. And so and so, but yes, there are people who have seen me and they're like, Oh my gosh, I love your content. And I'm like, please don't, don't say that. Please don't, please don't, please don't put that out there. Don't, don't say that. Just treat me like a normal human being type of deal.

And I, I said and, and no, no, that was, it was really, it happened once and it was, it was, it was fairly awkward because I was with a group of friends and this person came up and said that. And like, it wasn't awkward on them to do that. I'm happy that they came up and said hi. I'm I am happy when people come up and say hi and if they know me through content.

But you know, for example, my faith I ever received that was super awkward, but so funny was somebody came back and they said they told me. They said, Oh my gosh, Drew, I love your content. I said I love your, I love your unboxing videos where you switch from a weird video that you found to you and like having to go, which is like a bait and switch where somebody's like, why am I watching this? They're like, why am I watching this?

And then they go, Oh, it's true. OK, well, I gotta watch his unboxing. What did he get? He got me hooked me in and so he goes. I love it. I love those, but I have to but I feel like he said, he said, but I feel like I can't watch those in public. That's it.

You're probably right. There's a, there's some interesting videos that I, that I, that I find, but the, the point that I, that I, that I get to with that as well is like, there are also people who know me from work and they know me as Drew, the manufacturing sales Rep. And it's like, Hey, Drew, we've worked with you. Can you help me Drew this, you know, and they fit me into that mold and into that box and that's fine too.

Like you, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of hats that I wear when I go to shows and, and so there's so many different things that can be required of me. I guess is the best way to say where, for example, I have a lot of you know, I have a lot of meetings with this Gen. Con coming up where it's hey, you're a media person. Come to our party after the show, come to come to my booth.

I'll give you a free copy. It's and like like that sounds fun inherently, but after being like shoulder to shoulder with people, hot, muggy, I'm sweating, tripping over those wagons and everything like that. I really don't like those wagons. I can handle getting hit with the all play like backpacks, but the wagons I can't do it. I can understand the people who are like pushing their children around in that I will let that slide.

I will let that slide. But if it's full of board games, I told myself this year I'm going to start kicking them over. So I'm joking. I'm not going to be that mean, but I will. I will trip over more of them this year. But like, after all of that, yeah, after all of that going out to just spend time and things of that nature, it makes, it does make it a bit tasking for myself to be there.

And it's like, OK, I have to take my manufacturing cap off and I have to, and now I have to put on the social media fun Drew guy, you know that every that you know, oh, people know me through social media. And that's yeah, there. I agree with you 100%, PJ. There's a lot of yeah where it's like take this cap off, put this cap on, and every now and then I can be all three where I can be myself, I can be welcome to boredom, and I can be Drew the manufacturing sales.

Right, that must be nice moments. That it is. It is pure bliss. Yeah, yeah. It's just, it is a very, it's a very warm and welcoming time to that, right. And so like I said, there are a few people that I can be either

of any of those or just myself. And so but yeah, there is a, there is a thing of it. And we were talking before the before we started recording here, PJ, like, like they're just times where I feel that social anxiety to where I can't, where I just simply go. I, you know, like at origin with with you. I told you, I said I saw you from afar, but I'm in this meeting.

I'm trying to reel in this potential person to work with me. And I said, I really want to wave and say hi to you, but I just, I just can't. And I do feel bad, like like I genuinely feel bad when I can't, when I can't say hello to people or see. Sure, sure. Just because hey, there's, there's a part of it where I do have to work and I would love nothing more more than to stop say hello.

And that's, and that grows that social anxiety inside of me to like now I have now I have to go and find you, right? And I feel that pressure to go and find you and say hello. And then not just you. I'm just putting that in in general, like terms of you, like, like anybody, anybody that I will say there's, there's a couple of people. And so, and that's The thing is, is like at these shows, I don't ever check my phone hardly when I'm in the exhibit hall.

Good for you. Good. I try so hard not to check my phone, but at the same time I know I have to in the back of my mind because I'm like this person probably text me. Well, I have 14 text messages. I probably should get back to these, you know, just and so that's so before. We before we get too far away from your comments, I want really quickly about the wagons and strollers, right? OK.

So I want, I would encourage all of our listeners go back to Episode 128 where I talked with Susie from Games with Beanie about bringing your family and your children under 12 to game conventions. We talk extensively about strollers and wagons. We talked about, she talked about there's, there's not as many restrictions on those types of accoutrement at UKGE as they are at Gen. Con and and others, but check that out.

That's episode 128 parenting and play and listen to Susie talk about that from the perspective of a mother bringing her kids to game conventions. I just wanted to plug that real quick because you talked about it. I haven't I'm. Excited. I can't. I can't wait to take my son to to conventions. I can't wait. It's going to be exciting. Yeah, and he's getting big.

He's getting big. He is he, he turns, he turns, he turns 2 next month and he is in the percentile of height and weight and we are just so happy that he's, he's doing good, very well. So we'll make sure you listen to episode 128 because you might get something out of that to help you when you do bring him to the convention that you know, Susie's Susie's pretty terrific. So I have a follow up question about the multiple hats and the balancing the work and play while you're at Gen. Con.

Do you have I'm trying to figure out how to phrase this question. I know what I want to ask. Do you have is there a neuro linguistical cue that you have that we can learn and see right? Like so basically, if I'm walking by and I see you, but you have work hat on, how would I know that? So that I, because again, and we talked about this in the episode before this with Cassidy, when she's talking about dealing with threat syndrome and going to Gen. Con, I can't control anyone but me.

So if I'm walking by and I see you, how would I, by looking at you, know which hat you're wearing so that I can be respectful of your time? Well, I would, I would definitely say that. I would definitely say that we it is a good balance. I would say that walking up and saying hello is not an issue. What's? Whatsoever I would say, I would say, you know, you know, and I'll, I'll be polite and I'll say, hey, I'm so sorry. You know, I'm in a meeting right now.

I would love to talk to you, you know, please, you know, and please, let's let's catch up later. I'll message you type of deal. And that's, that's my kind of cue that I, that I share to people. Like I still want you to come up, say hi. But but I always, I always, I actually had this happen at Origins with somebody and they walked up to me and I was in the middle of a meeting and they came up and they were showing me something and I was like, oh, that's great.

But hey, I'm so sorry. I'm in a meeting. And then they messaged me later and they said, Hey, I'm so sorry that I interrupted your meeting. And it's like, no, no, no, don't, don't feel bad. Don't feel bad. Just know that, hey, there is a thing of maybe I'm here for work or maybe that I'm here for. And so it's hard for me to, it's hard for me to tell you. Oh yeah, this is when I'm working, like when I'm in work mode type of deal.

And I, and as I said earlier, PJI would I would love to say hi to whoever I would love to, but as well, don't feel bad for walking up and it makes me feel bad for telling you. Hey, I I'm in a meeting right now. I would love to talk with you, but I can't at at the moment. And so so it makes me feel bad for disregarding you and coming up to me. So, so First off, don't feel bad

for interrupting meeting. That's the very first thing is if you come up and you interrupt work meeting with me or anything of that nature, don't feel bad. Don't feel bad. I, I, I will, I don't think anything of it. I don't think I, I have no qualm or issue that you did. I'm actually grateful you came up and said, I want you to right, but don't feel bad for coming up to say hi. And when I when I disregard you and say, Hey, I'm in a meeting

right now. Sure. And so and so I just it's one of those things where it's like, it's like, I don't mind it. Me personally, I don't mind it, but don't feel bad if I quickly shoo you away and say, Hey, I'm so sorry. I'm in a meeting right now. And I and I'm genuine. When I say this, I say, Hey, let's, let's meet up later because I know it's a long weekend. I'll see you again type of deal. And as well, we have more than likely have contact information.

And so we'll probably text each other or message each other on social media and say, right, we will be there. So it's one of those things where I don't want to say anything that's going to make people go. There's Drew, but we can't talk to Drew right now.

He looks like he's busy. I don't want that, I don't want that, but I also want I also don't want you to feel bad for coming to just simply say hi And so if it's not a meeting, I will accept you over and be like, oh, hey, have you met so and so this is you know, that's that's my thing is I'm I'm I love networking. I go to this show and I will I will network with people. I'll say, hey, do you know so and so they're on TikTok. They have great content.

Hey, do you know so and so do you know PJ? PJ has a great podcast you you really need to check it out, you know. Right, right. And so and so, and it's stuff like that where I introduce other people to other people and I love that. I love, right? Like there's something inside of me that just makes me go, oh, that, that's really good, right So. And so there's a great line from Ted Lasso where he introduced two people. He goes, hey, you both just met cool people.

I'm like, I'm like, that's yeah. I'm actually Oh my God for the show. Yeah, I'll. I've stolen it myself. I love it. Yeah. I love that. Feel, I feel what you're talking about. It's great. I love introducing people. And so it's a it's and so it's a really cool thing to do that. And so I'm gonna say this is don't be afraid to come up and say hi, but don't be upset if I'm like, hey, I'm in a, I'm in a work meeting. Can I just, you know, I genuinely am like, hey, it's not a big deal.

It's really sure at the end of the day, at the end of the day, this meeting, especially at Gen. Con, if I'm at a family like origins or packs unplugged or any of these other ones, I'd have more time to sit down. And it does look like, oh, Drew's really working type of deal. But a Gen. Con Gen. Con is a different beast where it's it's walk up.

Hey, how you doing? Hey, you looking for, you know, hey, I appreciate you wanting to take time to talk about manufacturing and we get into that of it and probably take I've never had a meeting at Gen. Con go longer than 10 minutes. So and so I'm like, hey, I'm about to you know as well. That's another thing. If you come up and you say hi, I might be wrapping up a meeting because I've never true one go past because everyone's like, oh, we paid a lot for this

booth. We need to we need to make sales. And I get that right. Like that's that's business. That's a that's how it goes. And this is also the spot where you're gonna get the most publicity. So. Let's, let's, let's ask the question and talk about for a minute. For those who are going to Gen. Con for the first time and who don't know because you just said Gen. Con is a different beast. Why? Why is that?

What sets Gen. Con apart from other American conventions that someone who's going to Gen. Con for the first time would not normally think about or be aware of? So I will, I will say this in that regard, if you're going just to go, there's a lot of things. It just really depends. You got to ask yourself First off, what am I here for? What am I? What do I, what do I want to do? If you want to go and you want to play games and stuff like that, you can do that percent. There's a lot.

I'm sure there's libraries where you can rent out games, you can bring your own games, Take the games you just bought, you can go play them. There's so many areas and places where you can go to play games. If you are going there to see the new releases or anything of that nature, then then that is definitely one thing that you need to make a point of.

Go to these different booths, these different publishers who have these new games releasing, See what they said on social media, see what's coming out, see what's happening, and then you'll be more than you. You will have your feel because there's a lot of games that are coming out at this show every year. It's always the same thing. There's a lot of games that come out at the show. Then the other thing, and again, you don't have to have one specific thing. Let me be clear on that.

You can have a mixture of all of these. The other one is, is see what events that you can be a part of. You want to be a part of a tournament? Fantastic. Prove. Prove yourself. To be the tournaments. Yes, prove yourself the best player of your favorite game. You know, if you want to do that, go for it. Yes, I say that because my buddy last year, he one of my buddies, he won the Arc Nova tournament

to capsule. It was so funny because he said I have all the bragging rights now, Art, he said Arc Nova was one of my favorite animal games. He said, and this just proves it, that I'm the best. So you go OK, Yeah. So he's he's been bragging all year long about that. Sure. But like, but like events such

as tournaments, right? You can go to panels if you want to hear different, different aspects and different parts of it, which I do want to say, by the way, PJ, I am, I am, I, I know coming on here that my friend would be very upset if I didn't plug it. But OK, we have a we I say we, but they have a panel that's going to be going on at Gen. Con and it's on Friday. I do believe it's at 11 is when it is. Don't quote me to that, but it

is going going to be talking about diversity in the gaming space. And so there's a there's a mixture of people and things that we can improve as gamers and as people, how we can be more accepting and welcoming at not just our tables, but also just like in general. And so I think that I think that it's an excellent, going to be an excellent panel that I was invited to. I'm excited for it. And I think that it's going to go, I think it's going to go great.

So I encourage people, hey, definitely come and check this out when you can on Friday, so. That I love that. I mean, that's the whole mission of this podcast is unite players around the world. I've said it before, diversity is our strength. And yeah, we really, we, we still have a lot of room for improvement and a long way to go, but. I, I will say they did a, they

did a run of it at origins. And the big thing behind it is, is not making automatic assumptions thing even even even when it's the best of intentions. Yep, even when it's when it's really well intended. So I'll go ahead and I'll let you know. Like there are there are people of different races of different genders and things of that nature that are going to be on that panel. But they said we need somebody who's going to be nice but firm that will moderate the panel.

And for whatever reason, they decided to pick me. And it's so funny. It's so funny because I was, I was asked to go to the one in origins to, to moderate where I just asked the questions. I make sure that everybody, you know, I just make sure that nobody's getting rowdy or inappropriate or anything like that. And I make sure that they stay on topic and not venture off too far. So my, that's, that's what they specifically told me that my, my tasks were.

So they, it was so funny because when I told a handful of people that I was moderating a panel for diversity, they said what? And so it's just really funny because they told me in a follow up meeting last month, they told me they said, Drew, that's see, look, if we want you to get to talk, you now have something cuz people made assumptions about you. Boom, doing this panel. That's exactly that is exactly right. I'm not, I'm not gonna speak. I'm not gonna speak. This is not, this is not my

space. I'm not a original panel member. I'm just here to moderate and and so that's really, that's really it. So, but it's going to be a it's going to be an excellent time. So I encourage people to definitely do that. And so I'm veering off topic of it, but no, I do, I do want to say to your original question, it's really just figure out what you want right out of the

convention. If you want to play, there's plenty of spaces, plenty of things where you can play exactly at any time of the day that you want to. If you want to go to events, you can if you want to just buy new games, you can do that too. So there's. Nothing shopping. There's nothing set in stone right that can like like can be said what it is. So it's just a matter of what do you you want to do and get out of your Gen. Con. So there's no right or wrong way.

It's just like you said earlier, you know you. Right, right, exactly. So that's going to lead me to safety tip #2 at Gen. Con, please make sure to hydrate and drink plenty of water. You're going to be, you're going to be walking between open gaming and shopping and going to panels. You're probably going to go to the diversity panel. The Drew is going to be moderating, you know, so there's a lot going on. Gen. Con is a beast.

Make sure you stay hydrated. I'm going to tell you a quick story about Origins. I did not follow my own advice. The Convention Center is dry. It is so dry and the hotel we were staying at was dry as well and I suffered bronchitis so I already had inflammation in my lungs that I was just recovering from. Did not drink enough water. So when we got back home it just re aggravated.

I almost missed a week of podcasting because my cough was back so badly and it was like Oh my God, drink water, drink water. Absolutely, absolutely. And you don't realize how much you'll be walking, so it's true. Don't lot of people don't think of that. A lot of people don't realize, hey, it's quite a bit of a long trek from the Convention Center to the football field, trek from the football field to the hotels.

If you want to go up there and game or you have a meeting or whatever, it's it's, it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a walk. So definitely you need to hydrate. There's no reason that you shouldn't because there's a lot of spaces that you can go and fill up your water bottle. And so that's, that's yeah, that's my thing is definitely hydrate. Last year a lot of lot of people on my team with work made fun of me because I had a coke. I call it, I call it just coke. When I say coke, I'm in just

general. So Yep. I know what you mean. Yeah, I know. You know what I mean, BJ, But it was a it was, if you want me to be specific, it was a Diet Coke and then or a Diet Mountain Dew. And then I had water. And so and I would sit there, take a sip of one, take a sip of the other. So I'm just like, I got to stay caffeinated and I got to hydrate. And so it's one of those things where, yeah, because a lot of people don't realize that too, is like how late you will stay up at these shows.

Like, like, like time just slips by you. It does so quickly throughout the show. Like it's, it's going to go by quickly, my grievances aside. Like it's going to go through the four days of Gen. Con before we even realize that. It really will. Yeah, so you. Blink and it's like, whoa, Thursday's over, right? Right.

Yeah. Now you, I would say, I would say if you really want to get the most out of your Gen. Con is to look at the schedules of everything, see what you want to see, what you want to go to. Kind of have an ideal schedule. You don't have to be as exact as my schedule because I'm like, I'm doing this at 8:00 AM, I'm doing this at 9:00 AM. You know, I'm just listing list of things. The other side of that is as well.

I wouldn't go in without a little notion of a plan, like what of your goal and what you want. Absolutely. I mean, if you're if you're spending that much money on a badge and then however much it is for the hotel and then golly, Bill, you can't even think of how much it is to park or anything like that. Like, and that's that's if you didn't get a hotel across the street or close walking right. It's. Like. Right, I you're I just.

You're yeah, you're probably spending $2000 a minimum before you even buy a board game in the vendor hall. Yes. Yes, it's yeah. Yes, if you. It just depends on It depends on what it what it is exactly. Exactly. That you're that you're going through I'll be I'll be open. I'll share my finance finances on this to this.

I have a rental that I'm going to use and and I am using sorry, I already have the rental and it is think it I do believe it was about 7-8 hundred dollars just for that yeah. And then it's and then of course the hotel be about $1000 for five nights. That's that's if you didn't get the. Connecting. That yeah, yeah. If you didn't do the connecting like I was, I was able to find a hotel that's about 30 minutes southeast of the Convention Center.

So I've already got to spend money to drive, you know, 30 not, not just to not just to Gen. Con and Indianapolis, but I'm going to be driving about 30 minutes every day to the Convention Center and back. Yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, that's, that's already. And then all the money that's going to be spent on gas and everything like that financially, like you are absolutely spending $2000 at minimum and. There is a piece of good news

though. There is something that's there is something that's free yes, if you bring a refillable water bottle, there are refill stations throughout the Convention Center and Lucas Oil so you could get free water. So there's no reason for you not to stay hydrated. That's. IE backing me up of what I said earlier. I love it, I love it. There you are man. It's great. I know. I have a question for you and this is a personal one, of course. So this is this is me asking about myself.

One of the things that I struggle with, I think a lot of other people do too, because of conversations that I have with folks offline throughout the year. When I see other content creators, influencers, whatever term they feel comfortable with celebrity within our niche, I'm often reticent to go up to them and say hello because I feel like, I mean, the short answer, I'm not worthy, right? Like, I feel like my, my, my following is not as big.

I also worry about the etiquette because I've not met them before. And I don't want to assume just because we've shared a few met direct messages on Instagram that they're like, Oh yeah, that's PJ from Meeple and Meeple, right? So I never know how, which is weird for a gregarious, you know, Cajun from Louisiana. I get along with everyone would be reticent or nervous to walk up to a essentially a stranger, although not a stranger. But I'm like, how do I approach them and not assume?

Because it always goes about assumptions, right? Not assume that, you know, Well, then they're going to know who I am and I'm just going to go, you know, what do you say? Yeah. That's a that's an excellent question. I think that for me, I, if I see someone who is definitely larger than myself, I, I, for me, I just treat them as another individual.

So I have a good story to this. OK, I feel like back at PAX Unplugged for 2024, I got to meet someone who I would say is pretty big on social media for our niche and that is Carly with Board Game Bud. OK, Yep, I think everybody, everyone probably knows who she is by now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The huge, huge following. Great content too, and overall wonderful person.

Well, I knew exactly who she was, but I just, you know, because she was there with her family and I didn't want to bother her or anything of that nature. But I did introduce myself. And it's, it's very funny because I was around a circle of friends. I'm not sure if you know the designer Ammon Anderson made GNOME Hollow. I know I know the name, but I'm not. I don't know him personally.

I know him personally and he he's a really good friend of mine and I was play testing twinkle, twinkle that he has with all play. Fantastic game, by the way, But I'm sitting there with just a handful of bigger content creators than than myself. And I showed up late to to it and they said, and they said, hey, Drew, Carly was going to

take your spot. But since you're here, that's OK. And I said, I'll do whatever you want me to do. Surely team I'm I'm more than happy to accommodate for anything. Ammon was over watching her game, teaching us how to play. And then and then I could hear him in the background and Ammon going, Carly, do you do you know Drew Drew's really great guy. Like you should get to know him like and everything like that. And Carly ended up like talking with me, hanging out with me.

We talked about playing a game name stuff like that. Never did, but but that's how it goes. But we just we just chatted about a lot of things and it was it was excellent. It was excellent. I and so I feel like as well, PJ knowing yourself, going back to what we just talked about earlier, where it's like really cool to introduce people to other people like Carly had no idea who I was like, but just for the fact that I know other

people in the community, right. I have really good friendships with a lot of people. I was able to make that. You know, somewhat friendship through that, but I do I do say like I do say that for that, you know, just obviously treating them like an individual that of what they, you know, just treating, I would say definitely treating them like an individual of it. I think they appreciate that more. They know, they probably know that you know who they are, right?

If it makes sense. I know that you know that I know that you know. Exactly, exactly. But like, but I see it all the time with like Tom Basil. I go to a lot of these shows and I see Tom Basil dice tower, you know, Yep, he's he's walking around and people are stopping him and shaking his hand, saying hi and treating him with that type of just, you know, because like he knows that a good portion of people in this niche knows who he is. And so, yes, so it is, it is one of those things.

To be clear, Drew and I, Drew and I are not saying that we're on par with Tom Basil. No, no, no, nowhere near that. No, no, no, no. I believe PJI believe you deserve to be on par with him but. I don't know about that, but thank you. But I would, I would definitely say that like, like I just the amount of people that walk up to Tom Basil and just like shake

his hand and say hello. And hey, Tom, you know, I really liked this video, this review that you gave or whatever that it might be. And it's just, you know, engaging with them, talking about this thing that they've taken their time out of. For some people, it's a job like Tom Basil. It's it's a job for others like myself or any any anyone whatsoever like this is just them doing it for fun, taking them out of their day and.

Just like this is, yeah. Yeah, just for you having fun, so and PJ, I appreciate you, you. Thank you. I appreciate you as well. Let's be fair. So. Well, I thank you, thank you. I think that, I think that overall, I think that's going to be the best technique is to just, you know, to either introduce yourself, reintroduce yourself or anything of that nature, depending on the varying, depending on the varying like interactions that you may have had with them. You'd be surprised how many of

them actually remember you. Like, like, and that's, and that's The thing is like, like, I know somebody, somebody walk. I get that. I myself get that just because like Drew has, you know, X amount of followers, like, Oh, he doesn't pay attention to us. And I'm like, no, no, I appreciate all of you who like and comment and are active on social media with me and everything like that. But like, that's the one thing that I do kind of laugh at is

people walking up and going. I've had this happen to where people come up and go, So Drew, you probably don't know who I am, but I watch your content and everything and I go, I know

exactly who you are. Like, don't, don't sell yourself short like so, but like, but like, you know, with these people who are of the on the larger side, with hundreds of thousands of followers, they, they may, they, you know, you may need to remind them, you know, of your, of your name and saying, hey, thank you for taking time to message me or whatever. Fill in the break, you know? Yeah. So I don't think there's a right way to do it. I know there's a wrong way.

And you're just walking up and going, hey, I think your content is garbage. Like you need to stop. I think that's kind of wrong, but. But what if my content is garbage and I really need to hear that? You need to hear how to improve rather than it being garbage so. I can only imagine, I know, you know what people are going to say to me when I get the Gen. Con. Oh my God, they're going to be listening to this on their drive because this is this is when

people consume my podcast. It's when they're driving to conventions and they they binge a bunch of episodes. They're going to hear this and they're going to call it to me and be like, your content is garbage and you need to. Stop. And I'm gonna be like, oh, Jerry, Jeff. You just, yeah, you can blame me on that one, PJ. So that's OK. No, it's fine. I love it. And so I love it. I do wanna get into a topic very quickly. We touched on it shortly. But I do wanna get into it a little bit.

OK more, if that's OK. No, I'm gonna take over the podcast. I was just, let's say, like to do it. Yeah, I was, I was gonna say that we've sort of discussed about the social anxiety of, of conventions and things like that. And I do want to, I do want to warn people that with Gen. Con that it is, like I said, a different beast. Whereas it will be crowded. There will be a lot of people. You will be shoulder to shoulder with people.

And I think that I think that understanding that like I'm, I wish I was exaggerating. I wish I was, but you know. Yeah, yeah. Oh. She never seen me work and everything like that. She came on Saturday, the busiest day of the. Busiest day. Busiest day of UK Games Expo. She's pregnant at the time too. Oh no. And she said she walked around, she walked around and she goes, I can smell everyone just so bad. And so, and so that was that was my mistake.

So she, because of that, she actually swore off, says she's not going to go to anymore convention. OK. Because of that, but understanding that like there are, there are like it is, it is packed. It's not a, it's not like a small local one that's at, you know, whatever place that they can rent out, whether that's a small Convention Center or a hotel, anything. And nothing wrong with those.

But I would say that definitely, if you're spending this amount of money, definitely try to get the most out of what you can, but don't feel that social anxiety of, you know, hey, there's spots where you can go, you can sit down, take a break. There's yeah, there's spots where you can get away from the people go go to lunch, go to go to grab a bite to eat somewhere like it's there are a lot of things to do.

It is for me, it is that social anxiety of combination of business and PJ. I know you were you were you more than likely were raised very similar, at least I'm assuming from you being from the South like I am. But you know, it's very improper and impolite to be late. So you have to apologize for being late and things like that. For me, it's, it's that social anxiety of, oh, they're gonna think I'm horrible because I'm late to this meeting.

And yeah. And it's the, it's the fact that there's so much congestion and I can't get by this right here. But there's also like really cool things. Like, OK, there was there was once a Gen. Con last year where there was a lot of congestion and it was just because there was a crowd of people watching something that was really cool. And I can't blame them. It's really cool. Like somebody was dressed in a medieval cosplay type of thing and they were playing the fiddle

or violin, I guess. But we you you and I call it fiddle but right? No, Yep, you're right. And, and they're sitting there and they're playing it and it's beautiful. It is, it is, it's very high, upbeat type of thing. But I'm, I'm sitting there and I'm like, I can't enjoy this right now. I'm, you know, about to be, I'm about to be late to this meeting, being on the other side of the convention.

Oh my gosh. And so, and I know that's petty, Don't please don't take it as anything I'm complaining here. But like, you know, there's just times where like with that combined with the fact of of, you know, talking and chatting with people and then like, hey, I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut the conversation short. I love chatting with you.

I have to go type of thing. And so that's a thing that a lot of people don't, don't get because they're like, oh, we're going to go to lunch or oh, we're going to go sit down, play this game we just bought, you know, things like that. When, when you are there to kind of work. I, I know that designers kind of feel that, especially if they're independent designers, There's a lot of people who are like, hey,

come meet me at this spot. We're going to play this game that's coming out, play test it for me, new game type of thing and there's great, great things right in that. So I think that understanding that there is a little business social anxiety, there's a little bit social anxiety because you are you are also trying to make sure that you spend a good amount of quality time with that person. Yes, yeah. So cuz, like, cuz like PJII, see you, let's see Origins, Gen. Con and PAX Unplugged.

I want to spend time with you. You have not seen me at PAX Unplugged. Have you not been? I have not. Been. I have not been. I see you at Origins and Gen. Con every year. Right, and that's it. That's it. That's. It and I do don't get me wrong, PJ, I want to spend time with you like I want to grab lunch with you or go to anything like that. But when I'm like. You got things to do. I do. I do. If I paid out of my own pocket to be here, we would sit and talk and chat forever.

Yes, I but a company paid for me to be so I hear that to that I hear so and and there's also like the thing with people like who go to work at the booths, like people who are doing giving out demos and stuff like that, right, but it's only for like half a day where right, where most of them, either the people who are like actually working or own the company publishing company and have the booth or people who are trying to get their game out there, maybe a designer or a small publisher,

you know, or, you know, they're like me with a manufacturer and they're just like everywhere and darting all over the place. They it's understanding that there just has to be that understanding of like, Hey, we, you know, we got to we got things to do, we got to go, you know, we have a full schedule compared to, you know, a lot of the people that are here now. There are some, like I said, who can relate to people who work at demos, do demos, but they work for four, five hours, maybe

something like that. Yeah, let's, let's talk about the contract labor in the vendor hall for a minute. This is this is an issue. This is an issue that's really important to me because a lot of my friends do this. And if you listen to the Origins recap episode with Chris Preston just a few weeks ago, that's what he did. And he'll be doing this at Gen. Con. So when you're in the vendor hall and you're going from booth to booth, the individuals who are teaching you the demo game,

be patient with them. They don't work for the publisher. They are not the designers. They had no hand in any of that. So maybe they don't know the game as well as you might like. I mean, they, they do a little training ahead of time, but just be a little patient and kind. They're probably only being paid in a free badge. Sometimes they've got an hourly wage, and these are the people who are working four or five hours and that's it. But they're just like you and me.

But they can't fund fully Gen. Con. And the only way to do it is to essentially get contract their time out. So be gracious and be sure to thank them when the demo is over. Show them gratitude for their time. Yeah. It's really, it's really interesting because like they may not have the skill that some

people do with cells. Like there are people, there are people who I've seen that are small publishers and they'll have a booth and there's one guy who strictly just sells for the booth and he can sell anything that he could, you know, he could he could sell the shirt off of his back. Like he talked that good to, you know. And so then then you have people who who are probably they probably just just got there the day before. They probably just learned how to play the game.

They just so there's a lot of people who you have to really just kind of kind of sense how they are. You know, if they if and as well showing that graciousness of hey, you know, you may not know the game. You might be and you might be just contracted out. I agree with you 100%. It's just they just, you know, they're just there to help out, to have gotten that badge and they and they're more than happy to help out. Otherwise they wouldn't exactly exactly.

But they probably just learned the game the day before and they probably don't have their pitch down of how to properly play. And there's a there's a whole dynamic of that PJ, you know, if you if you don't, you know, if you don't, There's just some part of that where it's definitely figuring that out of how you can definitely be able to proceed with that and be able to move forward and be able to help in the regards. Because they are in a sense, a salesperson for the company

during that weekend. They're teaching how to play. The thing is, is they're not skilled in that. They are just there because they got a free hotel or badge or. Right. Whatever that it might be, definitely being open with that. So I agree with you 100%. There's also, you hit on it there for a moment when we were talking about all the different things to do at Gencon Is also for those of you who've never been to Gencon, there's cosplay and there's a whole etiquette behind that as well.

And I think Gen. Con's got a web on their website. It talks about that etiquette, especially dealing with cosplayers asking for permission to take a photo of them or with them, be kind to them. They will be standing off to the side in the concourse within a taped off area. And then there's a parade on Saturday. I think there's like a cosplay. There's like a parade of all the cosplayers leading up to the the

contest, right? And there's so there's so much going on, it's hard to know all of it. Right? Yeah. 100%. It is crazy, but that's what I'm here for. Of course. Is to learn it all. Yeah, exactly. That's what we're here. We're here to give them everything they know on this podcast. But it's, I think, I think I agree 100%. You definitely have to have that boundary of respect to ask someone if you can take a photo of them or take a photo with them. And I think I think that's really cool.

They have a lot of I'm just, I'm just a nerd. There's a lot of anime cosplaying. I love it. It's I had just started, I remember last year, last year, I had started really watching one of my favorite shows, One Piece and, and there was a guy dressed as there was a couple of people dressed as the characters of it. And I just happened to run into the guy who's like my favorite character. And I was like, I love your cosplay. Thank you so much.

Like that is so cool. And so, and it's it because like, and they appreciate that whenever you stop by and you just simply say that because that's what I love about following cosplayers on social media is you don't see the work that goes behind everything. Yeah, there's there's a lot of things in that regard, but 100% definitely ask them if you can take a picture of them or with. Yep. And you know, it's funny. I'm the worst. I'm the worst at photographs. And by worst, I don't mean I

don't follow my advice. I forget to take pictures. I'm so happy to see you. Like you. You and I have never taken a picture together. Like we see each other. We give each other a hug, we chat and move on. Origins. I didn't take a picture with anybody. I am just. I am the worst because I'm so I'm so in the moment. Cassidy. Cassidy and I talked about this last weeks episode. I'm in the moment and present with you that I don't even think about. Well, I got to take that picture

and let's get a selfie. And then I kicked myself forward afterwards. I'm like, oh man. No, no, I get that 100%. Like like that's The funny thing is I don't have hardly any pictures with anybody that I've gone to these conventions with. There's a couple of them and most of them being either Co workers or anything like that. And this at Origins, I took a picture with a buddy of mine and it was just because we were just being funny.

And he said, Hey, let's text, let's text our friend who isn't here and just send pictures like our mutual friend. And it was just, it was just funny because we were, we were he, he came in for a short period of time and he needed a place to stay. And I was like, yeah, I have an extra bed, you know, in my Airbnb. Come on. And so he came, he stayed and everything, but we were chilling on the couch and he said, Hey, let's send this picture before we go to dinner and everything.

And so we're just chilling on the couch and we just sent pictures and, and to him. And it was, it was, it was just funny. It was a, it was a good time. But but it's like hey you're missing out because you're not right type of thing. No, I get that. I get that completely. I don't mind trying to elicit a sense of FOMO from like a close personal friend. I hope my content when it comes out, when I'm at a convention, I'm not trying to make my listeners and subscribers feel

FOMO. What I'm trying to do in my mind, I'm thinking myself as an ambassador. I want you to feel like you're a part of it. So I'm going to walk the vendor floor with you or I hope I'm sharing that and not making you feel like you're missing out. We'll see how successful I am at it though. Well, thing I think overall it's it's it's definitely we don't need to make sure that they feel FOMO. And that's, and that's another thing as well.

Like like, I don't, I don't really know the best way to say this to you, PJ. But when it when it comes to going to places like Gen. Con or any of these conventions and stuff like that, I never really feel any FOMO. OK, and maybe maybe that's because I'm in the mindset of I'm here to work. If I get a chance to talk about my content or even just play a game, I'm happy of it. But it's just the fact of, Hey, I don't necessarily like really feel that in the sense of in the sense of FOMO.

I would say, you know, I would say it's more of that like, Hey, I PJ, I didn't see it Origins. I wish I would have you know, I guess that's my FOMO is missing out on seeing friends or sure, spending time things of that nature. I never I never when it comes to like these events and things like that. I'm like, I'll be I'll be OK.

I mean, don't you know, Hey, you know, we can buy this game later, you know, Yep, you know, because because assuming, assuming that these companies are wanting to have a good, profitable, profitable business, though, make they'll print more and have right and have some sort of website you can purchase it off of or something of that nature. So. Exactly. For me, that's that's the that's the biggest thing is like, you know, if it's really cool, I can get this later.

It's a different mindset. And I feel, I feel weird saying that and I wish, I wish I wouldn't instill that into anybody whatsoever. But yeah, I can understand when someone would get FOMO at a convention. Sure, absolutely. I wish I could relate. I just can't, PJ. No, I get it. I totally get it. The only convention, honestly, the only convention that I feel that missing out is the UKGE.

And yeah, it's the only one. So when people go to Tantrum Con or they go to Board Game Geek or Dice Tower West or PAX Unplugged, I don't I'm like, great. I'm so glad everyone's having a good time. Genuinely, that is what I feel. It's UKGE that's unique to me because I've owned. It's because of the people, right? And it's people that I've a lot of them I finally got to meet in person last year in England. And so that's really great. And I'm like, I want to be there

with y'all, you know? And sometimes I'm like, yeah, I weep. Maybe next year, fingers crossed. Maybe. Next year UKGE. I have AI. OK, I need you to understand this. My, my, my. So I just officiated a wedding for a buddy of mine back in May and he asked me, he's like, we were talking about travel and things like that. He knows like how I travel and I travel very cheap. He said, Drew, you will show up in a dog crate if you could, but and I said, yeah, you're right. I would.

But no, I I do find ways to travel very cheap. And so I'm doing the same same thing with Essen here in a couple months, OK, fairly cheap flight to Essen. If I could go back to UK Games Expo, I know exactly what airline I would use. And, you know, and I'd probably find a Airbnb. I'm not sure what the cost would be. But yeah, I, I definitely, I definitely. I understand that. I look, I understand that. I understand that all too well.

So if you so you're gonna be at Essen this year, is that that's what you're saying? That's what I've been told. I was told that. That's what I was told back. So typically around Essen after Essen is when I have the idea of like what I'm doing somewhere between Essen and January. So every Jane. So let me let me give you this. Let me let me give you this. Let me tell you why. OK. So that's when my whole team is

together. And so SN is usually when we're all together and then I travel to China to tour the factory and celebrate Chinese New Year with my team. And so that's typically when they tell us like which ones were going to of that of that nature. And last year I found out at Essen last year, they said we're just go to the same ones in 2025. I said, OK, so all right, it's Gamma, Origins, Gen. Con, Essen, Pax. Unplug those 5. There you go. So OK.

So I already knew like my marching orders for for this year, that's what I was told last year, whether or not that changes just. Depends. So here, here's what I would say make sure that you somehow pencil it in. If you're definitely going to Essen, let me know because Gareth will be at Essen for the first time. And if you haven't, you should meet Gareth at least once, because. I would love to, yeah, yeah, absolutely. He will be there, so that'll be exciting.

So hopefully we'll get some live content for the podcast for that, but we'll see what happens. That's what you had me do two years ago. I was I, I remember I was joking and I said, when are you gonna I, I remember I messaged you and I said, when are you gonna actually have me on the podcast? Like just a, not just a clip of me. Here we are two years later so. I know, I know, I know. I'm. Joking. It's I'm joking, BJE. I got to say, it's been it's been an interesting year for the

Maple to Maple podcast. Obviously Gareth's been on sabbatical since January and I didn't know, I didn't know what I was going to do, right? I had no idea. And now the momentum is just, I mean, I've got stuff, I've got a series coming up. I've got some great interviews. Come, I got man, it's it's it's somewhat overwhelming. It's both exhilarating and overwhelming at the same. There's just so many things going on and I'm like, man.

What a beautiful connection of the where, where they just intersect with one another where it's like it's overwhelming, but you're excited and there's a lot of that's what I love to hear. I love to hear when people are excited about the content that they're creating and that they're. Working exactly. That's awesome. So my final question to you is one piece of advice, vital piece of advice for a first time goer of Gen. Con. What would you tell him?

This is a good one. Yeah, maybe a little stump there cuz I really wanna my gut is saying, my gut is saying have fun. But but the topic of the podcast, I did want to correlate to that. OK. And so if you don't mind, it'll be two of them, two pieces of advice. I'm perfectly good with you giving everyone 2 pieces of advice. So here's my two cents. Have fun and it will be OK. Simple is that it will be that. I say that because you may feel like you're having FOMO to

something. Sure, you may feel overwhelmed by the amount of people that are around you and the awful smells that you'll be smelling and the tripping over carts that you'll be having and things of that nature. But it is fun. It is fun. No matter no matter how much I have my grievances with Gen. Com, whether that's business side, social anxiety side, the busyness of it all, I still do enjoy it. There is a part of me that does enjoy Gencom now.

I gripe about it all year long, but I don't like it. But at the end of the day, it is a show. It is where you're going to have fun. And I do hope that everyone who does go looks back and says that was fun. Yeah, I love it. I hope that I love it. Yeah, I tried to. No, I'm a PJ. I'm a simple man. I'm a I'm a very you. Are a simple man. So. I yeah, so I'm, you know what? I got 2 pieces of advice as well. We've distributed a lot of advice to you.

But if it's your first time going so #1 don't try to overextend or over schedule yourself, right? Just you know, this is connected, you're having fun, but don't try to over schedule your day and drive yourself insane and make sure you know, there's a lot of people that put this together so that you can have fun.

Be be mindful of our our brothers and sisters out there like Drew and others who are demoing games, who are manning booths, who are at the concession stands trying to get you that burger in a reasonable time, who ran out of the souvenir cups just as you walked up so that you could get your $2.00 refills for the rest of the weekend. Just I say this at the every time and close every episode. Just remember, be kind to everyone and play more games.

That's that's it guys. Thanks for listening, Drew. Thanks for joining me and having this conversation. I really appreciate it. Yeah, PJ, thank you so much for allowing me to be here. I I do want to say I genuinely enjoyed this and I hope that we can do it again someday. Absolutely tell everyone where they could find you on all the socials and continue to follow your content. Absolutely. So my my name through social media is welcome to boredom and that is welcome.

And then the number 2 and then boredom as in board game. So yeah, you find me through there. I post how to play videos over on YouTube as well. I do interviews at these shows, which is one thing that you can also see, especially with Jen, I'm coming up. I'll have a few of those out. And then as well I just post silly board game related content. Sometimes I do unboxing, sometimes I whatever feels right to be as well. I have memes and just have fun

on my social media. So I don't take it as seriously as some people do. And I just, I just enjoy having fun. So feel free to give me a follow on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, wherever it is that you feel comfortable on whatever platform you use the most. There you go there you go. Thanks guys. Don't forget to hit that like and subscribe button. We have 80 subscribers. We're 20 more to go need 100 by October. One year anniversary of our

YouTube channel. We just celebrated our three-year anniversary of the podcast. So that's that's. Graduation. Yeah. Thank you. So, yeah, things are going. So we need those subscribers make sure like and subscribe and once again be kind to one another and play more games.