Welcome to Episode 131, where today I invite you to pause, play, and rethink the table In a world that celebrates strategy, creativity, and connection and inclusion, we're taking a closer look how how board gaming intersects with the lived experiences of gamers with Tourette's Syndrome. As author and advocate Brad Cohen once said, I may have Tourette's, but Tourette's doesn't have me.
We explore how the spirit of resilience thrives within the hobby and on the bustling floors of Borgon Conventions. Join us as we unpack the challenges that prove inclusivity is not just a rule, it is how the best games are played today. Joining me is gamer and advocate Cassidy Ford to talk about what everyone needs to know about supporting these patient and strong members of our hobby and community. Cassidy, how are you? I'm good. How are you?
I'm really excited to finally chat with you. I know it's a long time coming. It is, it is. I feel like I feel like listeners are going to hear me say this for the next couple of episodes because you've been really patient with me. I had you scheduled. We we were going to do this and then I got sick and then it was like trying to reconnect the schedules. The next few episodes are me rescheduling all the people I had to cancel on when I got sick back in May.
So thank you for your patience. Well, I'm glad to be here. I've been looking forward to it. Yep, this is very important topic for for me, of course, but definitely for you, right? So I appreciate you being willing to and open about being vulnerable. You know, I've talked about vulnerability a lot recently, and I appreciate your vulnerability to come on and talk about what it's like to live with Tourette syndrome and be a gamer going to a gaming convention. Yeah, right.
I've made the choice and you know we're going to talk about it today. I'm actually really eager to have this conversation because I know I'm going to learn from you about what to expect, but also maybe share a little bit about why I made the decision to go. Which I am really interested in hearing, but let let's start. I wanted to ask you this.
What are some excuse me, what are some common misconceptions about individuals who and I don't know what the right term is, suffer is is that's not the right word? I don't like to think of it as suffering. Help me out. What is the first of all? Let's start there. What is the right verbiage that I should be using? OK, well, let's, let's take even
a step further back. Let's why don't I just share kind of a definition of what Tourette syndrome is, OK, not everybody understands, knows I run into people who don't even know what Tourette syndrome is or have never heard of it before. So that's, that's kind of a good place to start. But I, Tourette's syndrome is a
neurodevelopmental condition. So it's in your brain, but with, with your neurons in, in your brain, the messages that are firing to your body where it, it causes you to make unwanted movements and sounds. So I basically my brain is telling my body to jerk my hand or my shoulder or say one of my tics is to say hopscotch out of nowhere. You know, things, things like that. And it can be on a scale from very mild where you have an eye blink and that's it. Or well, I, I will have to say
to have Tourette's syndrome. There's a difference between Tourette syndrome and tick disorders. So Tourette's syndrome is defined by having one or more vocals and motor ticks on a consistent basis for a certain period of time and it's usually diagnosed in childhood. And so which I can give you more information. You don't necessarily care about all the scientific stuff, but that is that's usually where I like to start when explaining
Tourette syndrome. And the verb is around it is really, it's very personal to everybody. I think that everyone who has Tourette syndrome talks about it differently and has a different feeling towards what's happening to them and therefore approaches the world differently with their condition. So for me, I like to say I don't suffer from Tourette syndrome. I like to say, you know, I have Tourette syndrome. It's like saying someone has
bipolar versus is bipolar. Those things don't define them. It's what you started out today saying about, about Brad Cohen, who says, you know, that's I have Tourettes, but it doesn't define me, right. So those are usually when I'm talking to folks, I, I don't have a good answer about how to what words to use for Tourette's. Only thing I can say is if you approach or if you are around someone who has Tourette syndrome, take your cues from
them. So if they have a good feeling towards their Tourette syndrome, I don't know if anybody really does. But if they have, if they had, if they've come to terms with it, then use that language that they're using. You know, it. I, I don't think we ever want to say, suffer through something, but yeah, it's, that's not a very good answer, is it? No, I think what I my take away from that was is that you, you have it, Yeah, like like like you have a board game on your
shelf. Like, yeah, maybe it doesn't. It doesn't define you, but it is something that you present. It's something that it's really complex. If I say so it's the same thing as having diabetes. It's the same thing as having a mental health condition or having, you know, allergies. It is a condition that in this case there's no cure for. And because it forces you to do things, they're so public, I think is the difference go
around. I have allergies, but the only time someone knows that I have allergies is if I'm sneezing. And I can't control that with medication. That's not necessarily the same with my Tourette syndrome. And so then people are curious and they ask questions. And my private life, it's like I wear a heart monitor for everybody else to see at all times. It's a barometer of my thoughts and feelings, good or bad, because they show up in my ticks.
They show up on my face. Don't play poker with me. I have such a bad poker face that you think I'm a good poker player. So. But that's what your ticks do, right? OK. So it's definitely, it's a complex thing when you have a condition and it feels sometimes like the condition owns you and you have to fight not to let it define you. So that's why I say it's a very personal thing to each individual because everyone's experience with DRESS syndrome is very different.
Sure I can, I can definitely see that. So is Tourette a form of neuro divergent or is it something completely different? It's something completely different. So, yeah, so that's a really
good question. And I think this actually is something that I would like to kind of talk to you a little bit more about in a little bit, because I feel like as a gamer, that definitely plays a large role in how I approach playing games and, and, and relating to other people who play games with me. But because it is a neurological condition, right? Not that ADHD isn't or OCD isn't, or things like that, but Tourette's syndrome is a
condition in and of itself. It is often it is accompanied by Co occurring conditions or what scientifically are called comorbid conditions. And what that can mean is the ADHD, the OCD, the mental health conditions, things want, behavioral issues, sleep issues, all sorts of stuff. That sensory processing disorder, which where we talk about Gen. Con, it might be an issue for me. Yeah.
But all of those Co occurring conditions are usually the ones that fall into that neurodiverse category, neurodivergent category. Yeah, because that's a topic that's that's huge because so many of the gamers and members of the community are some form of neurodiverse. It's not everyone, but I believe statistically if I was reading today it's like half. Is it really? Yeah, I knew it was a lot. And of course, these are these
are self reported. The statistics that I read were also based on gamers being open enough to share their where they fit, fit where they are on the scale of neurodivergence. And they're not, they're not all equal. And that's what I take away from what you just said, is that not everyone who has Tourette are equal, right? It's yeah, it's different. It's personal. OK, That's good to know. So what about common misconceptions that people who don't have Tourette think about
people who do? What's the first thing that you think of when you think of someone with Tourette syndrome? Tell me. Yeah, that that they just, they curse constantly and uncontrollably. And that has been reinforced by pop culture forever. And I've never known anyone who has Tourettes. I haven't knowingly known someone before meeting you who has Tourettes. So the impression I get is that's so far from the truth. Right.
It, it really is. I, I'm going to take another step back because when I, when I explain things about Tourette's, I, I need to make sure that everyone understands. I know what I know based on my lived experiences. It's the same for everybody else in this world. So when I talk about Tourette's, it is conglomeration of just my own experiences and then what I know from the folks in my support group and my, my network and my circle around me.
But at the same time, if I, if I'm speaking, I'm going to try and base it on my own experiences. The swearing or the cursing tech that you're talking about is called coprolalia. Coprolalia, people, copper Lelia, Everybody pronounces it differently. I actually, I have it. I don't know how to pronounce it because I will click on the little pronunciation button on they pronounce it differently every time. So I joke. I joke.
But really and truly, one in 51 in 50 school age children either has a tick disorder of some kind or Tourette syndrome, which is a number that blows people away when they think about how how few, like how many people in their circle as a child they could have known that had Tourette syndrome or a tick disorder. Of the folks of that one in 50 that actually have Tourette's, only one in 10 folks with Tourette syndrome have coprolalia.
And that is a very small number to that swearing tick that we talked about that you see in the media that is a butt of jokes or that is usually this, this stigmatized version of this condition that you see is actually not that common at all. And my story is a little interesting because I wasn't diagnosed. My ticks didn't start till I was 17. And because of that and a few other factors, I wasn't diagnosed with threat syndrome until I was 25. And I'm 38 now.
In case anybody was wondering, ladies do tell their ages sometimes. So I lived for a very long time. I lived eight years not having a diagnosis. I kind of knew what it was. I, I feel like I did know what it was, but nobody wanted to say the word Tourette's because it was a dirty word, right? There's no cure. And during that time is when my cursing ticks started. And I learned, I think because I was older and I was, I was more mature when my ticks started to kind of cope with them a little
bit better. Sure. Most people with Tourette, you know, can't, we can't suppress our tics all the time. It's exhausting to do it. It's literally physically and emotionally exhausting. But I subconsciously do that now because I had to going into college and starting my professional career, which goodness knows, I have stories about that. You know, it's it's a coping mechanism that now has become an innate for me that's exhausting. And so you would never know.
And that's why you said, and I appreciate that you said that, that at least that you know of you didn't necessarily know if someone around you had Tourette syndrome because we do suppress when we can. Correct. So why are we talking about this? Yes, it's an important topic. Well, so the reason why I had you on is because you're going to go to Gen. Con. Yes, after I've talked to your
ear about this, yeah. You're you're going to go to Gen. Con and it is the largest gaming convention in the United States. If you listened to Episode 129 with Chris where we talked about Origins game Fair, we learned that Gen. Con is the number two largest convention in the world, right? Yeah, last year, 71,000 attendees, I believe in 2023, the year before with the release of Lor Khanna, which those of you who went to Gen. Con remember that fiasco, A logistics fiasco.
Not that Lor Khanna is a fiasco. It was a logistics fiasco. Initially, I think it was over 80,000 people crammed in two very large buildings, the Indianapolis Convention Center and Lucas Oil Stadium and all the hotels connected. So there's a lot, there's a lot going on. Let's let's just let's just start with your how do you feel about that? Stressed as I'll get out, sure, but also at peace about it, you know?
I'm an adult grown human being and I've decided if I need to take a step out I will remove myself. There's plenty of times, you know, I, I've been in very many meetings when I felt like I needed to scream or throw something, or I have thrown something or I have screamed and I've had to remove myself from that meeting where I've had to grow thick skin, be non apologetic about my condition, and also recognize my limits and know when I need to step out.
So as much as that sucks, sometimes it is kind of how it goes. Gen. Con is going to be its own beast, right? So one of the things honestly, that I besides just knowing what my own limits are, I think that knowing that, I mean, you described yourself, you described yourself earlier, kind of like you have this Big Brother feel about like a protective streak and you you want to help kind of uplift and uphold everyone around you. And you're not the only one in
the world. I know it feels like that sometimes, but there are really great people like you in the world and there are folks that I know that will make sure that I take care of myself. Does that make sense? Like, okay, yes, yeah, I have to trust. My question, my question to you is how many of those people will be present at Gen. Con to help you with that? Yep. So first and foremost, I have to take care of myself so that that is a thing.
So I'm actually staying with a friend in Indianapolis. I I'm not staying at a hotel. He and I have had some conversations about the fact that it's an open door, revolving door. If I need to come back back for a day and stay and hang out with them or you know, I'm I'm not obligated to do anything the whole time that I'm there and. Absolutely. Yeah, OK, good. Some of them are going to be working in the convention, so that's going to be harder for me to just be like, dude, Get Me
Out of here. But I at least know a friendly face. And honestly, PJ, sometimes that's all you need is a friendly face, someone who understands and knows you and knows what you're going through to just clap you on the back and give you some encouragement. Say, hey, there's a corner over there, or here's the secret bathroom, which apparently there's a secret bathroom, so I don't know the story behind this. So there's no secret bathroom. Never mind. No, no, no, there is no secret bathroom.
All that to say, all that to say is it's not easy. But if I were to sit to to sit at home and never do things that aren't easy, I wouldn't be living my life right? Sure, Hopscotch. So here's the interesting thing about Gen. Con. And this is even if you don't have to or you. Aren't. Neurodivergent, even if you're an extrovert who's gregarious and loving like myself, 71,000 people, that can be overwhelming. The challenge is the challenge is in that moment when things
get overwhelming. Now my wife is more introverted, so I'm very much aware when we're together. OK. I'm looking for her cues to be like, we need to get out. And sometimes there was one time where I needed to get out. If, if, if I need to get out, we need to get out, right? That's a big one. So the challenge is that the crowds can be so packed in and depending physically where you are in the vendor hall or the events area or on the floor of Lucas Oil.
Although I the beauty of Lucas Oil is that it's because it's a stadium, it's very airy upwards, right? So it feels less crowded. Unfortunately, you're probably not going to be on the floor of Lucas Oil unless you're paid for, prepaid for events or things of that nature. I mean, that's not to say there aren't spaces for you to get away if you need to, or secret alcoves or hallways. And there are a lot of them because it's a labyrinthine
convention hall. Sometimes just depending on where you are in that moment, yeah, will require, you already know this. It's going to require some control and patience on your part to get to that. Exactly. Yeah, that's probably, I think the biggest challenge. And that's speaking as someone who doesn't have Tourette's and is not neurodivergent, right, and thrives in that environment. I too suffer from that. It's a little too much. Got to back down, but then you
got to wait. And I don't want, I'm not a patient man, so. OK, when I need to go, I need to go. I'm the same way, OK, But yeah, hey, listen. OK, so I one of the most glorious vacation I have traveled all over the world, right? I've had I've been blessed to be able to do this. I have two stories for you in this moment right now. The first being the the first solo trip that I took vacation trip was to Universal Studios Orlando for five days by myself right when they opened up a new
like fancy schmancy ride. So it was jam packed full. I did great. I thought it was wonderful. Like even though there was a million people there, like it was fine. However, I also went to India and being in India with the crowds in the cities in India, I did not do well. That, however, was 15 years ago and I have had to learn, and this is a lesson for anybody who's either going to junk on or just in life.
I have had to put in a lot of work to learn how to handle panic attacks, to learn how to cope, to have coping mechanisms. To do breathing exercises to manage my condition and just manage stress in general, which is why I say that is a thing that is, it is helpful for anyone to know.
But when I when I say you know that work, it's not, it's not an easy thing for me to go into a crowd like that or go into a boardroom or go into a new gaming room of people that I've never met before at Jason's Deli, which I did last fall. And now I've made great friends like, you know, is about the work that you put in and the attention and the presence that you feel, you know, about being present. And I don't know what's going to happen at Gen. Con. I really don't.
But I have faith in the work that I put in and I have faith in in and how well I know how my limits and boundaries are right? So. Absolutely. I am excited you're. Not going to. Persuade me I'm not. No, no, no, no would let me ask you about India. Were you in Mumbai or were you in Bangalore? Where were you? No, we went to Delhi, Kolkata and Agra. So we went kind of to, we didn't go to like the commercial centers or anything like that. So I actually don't know what
that's like. Have you been there? So I haven't, OK, but I have through my time working at various hotels over 15 years, I've worked with a lot of Indian Americans and people are going to get tired of hearing me plug this. So Palgan, Palgan and his wife from Mosaic Games in Bangalore, they will be at Gen. Con. So make sure to look at their booth and go and say hi. Tell them PJ said hello. Anyone listening, if you're going to Gen. Con, go say hi to Palgan. He's an amazing individual.
That conversation that we had on the podcast was just was one of our most successful on our YouTube channel. Cool. I don't know, like it's blown all of them out of the water. We talked forever. It was so good to hear his perspective. And this is his first Gen. Con and he is. So it's four of them. It's him and his wife and two others from India who are coming to Gen. Con. And then he's got a support group of people from Kansas City who are gonna be joining him.
So that's really great that they have that presence of mind. But since you've been to India, and I mean, just that would be something. I know from my point of view, when I meet someone who's from Louisiana, it's like a sense of home. So if you make sure you because you visited his homeland, you can you could talk about that experience and give him a minute to feel like home. I mean, I like to think that's. I love that. That you know so you. Just you know what you just even
brought up is is so huge. I don't, but I can't wait for you. I'm. About to tell you. I am literally about to tell you if I can amalgamate the thought in my brain. So no, what you just said is if you can talk to him about his homeland and bring him a little bit of home, that would make him feel good basically, right? That'll make him that. That will mean something to him. I at least I think so.
Yes, that bridges a gap. That is a human to human interaction, communication, sense of community that two strangers can share. Yes. Our conversation right now, that's what this is. Someone who talks to me, who who, who, who has no idea about Tourette syndrome, who I may meet on the exhibit floor at Gen. Con, who sees me, ticks and asks me if I'm OK or says bless you. And I said, no, that was just a tick. I'm fine. And then they asked me about Tourette syndrome.
Every little exchange bridges that gap and makes that moment more human. Human, right? And that is how on a daily basis I get through life. And that is how I plan to get through Gen. Con because I I have to connect with the people around me. And each one of those makes me feel a little bit more like myself. And then I'm at home and then I'm more comfortable. And that's why the human conversation is so important. So important. Yeah, yes, Yeah. Well, OK. See. Yeah, I did something good.
But that's exactly why you have this podcast, PJ. Like I, I just really feel how important it is to have these Cumber Cumber conversations and open up the door between two human beings that I've never met him before. But now, because you told me about him, I'm going to go say hi and I'm going to I'm going to check out his booth and maybe we'll be best friends from now on. Who knows? But. You probably will. I'm just going to tell you right now, Be prepared. Yeah, yeah.
He's great. He's he's fantastic, you know, and the other thing too is that's something that I can't, I can't provide, right? I've never been to India. So I won't be able to bond with him in that way. No, obviously I can bond with him in a different way. But but knowing that about you, like, Oh, no, that's yeah, we have to facilitate. We have to facilitate the human interactions and support one another in any way we can in
order to nurture this community. Yeah, rather than focus on, and people are probably going to get tired of hearing me say it, rather than focus on the fear and the anger about what's going on in the world, let's focus on building a community and doing it right. So tell me what can people do or what should, what should people know and more. And so with that in mind, let's make it more personal.
Yes, what can I do? What do I need to be aware of when I finally get to meet you at Gen. Con and be the supportive person and be able to read your ticks versus, oh, that's you know what I mean? Like how can like what do I need to know?
Relax, Just relax. I think, I think that is, I think that is kind of the biggest piece of advice I can give to the folks around me. There's always going to be a, a worry about I do this to you and my best friend is, is she doesn't like to go to movies with people or out to dinner or out because she's very introverted, because she's always worrying about the other person having a good time and if they're OK and how are they feeling right now.
And I tell her all the time, you need to focus on yourself, right? That's a whole other story. But I just, you know, I think that I it is always, it's always going to be apparent if my ticks are bad or if I'm stressed out. Like I said, I have no poker face or if I'm just kind of darting around or if my words aren't coming out right. It's usually because there's a lot of noise and a lot of stimuli. And there was a really great, I think I told Victoria this on the games you must.
Do you ever listen to his podcast? I have not yet. It's on my list. There's so many podcasts. I mean it's. He asked me about something about how to respond to people when they have ticks and what he should say, Basically similar to your question, but specifically what he should say in response or do in response. And I used the example of Survivor Jeff Probst on this. I think it was the last season of Survivor. There was a person who had a
stutter. One of the contestants had a stutter and he couldn't get his words out. Very much. Like I just like right now that happens to me when I can't get my words out or I stutter tick and Jeff, the hostel show, he stops everything and he asks him, what do you need in this moment? And that is all I need. I need someone to stop and say, what do you need from me right now? Because it could vary at any given time. Also, I am not your responsibility, which I fully
recognize. So you don't need to not you specifically, but the people around me. I'm always concerned about being a burden to other people. And so, but that question is the best question to ask. And that contestant responded to Jeff and just said, I just need you to give me space to get my words out and that's all I need. And the understanding by asking questions is, is it makes all
the difference in the world. So those times if you are there or someone else is around and I'm taking a lot or, or I can't get those words out, just be like, hey, dude, you cool, good. What do you need? What do you need? Food? Because the answer is probably always going to be yes, I need food. So that that is that is another quirk about me is that you will find that I am always hungry and I get very hangry. But in reality, that's also a trick, a trigger for my ticks.
OK, so here's the good news. My wife has trained me well. We carry a ton of snacks. Yeah. OK. And so one of the things that gamers tend to talking about self-care, right? Gamers don't take care of themselves at board game conventions. But this is not an absolute, and it's not about everyone, but diets. And I don't mean diets like, oh, I'm on a diet. I mean regular, regular diet. Nutrition goes out the window,
right? Yeah. There's not a lot of greens, OK, So we've got like organic snacks with fruits and nuts and things of that nature, things that we could just grab and go. Cuz the other thing is if you do get a table, if you get a table at Gen. Con to play a game, that's another story for another day. You're probably not going to want to get up, so you don't want to be able to have food ready to go.
And so we have a lot of snacks. So if you and I are hanging out and and you're hungry or hangry, yeah, I will. I will be prepared because that's just, you know, it's been ingrained in me. So we'll be we'll be ready for
that for sure. I need to go grocery shopping when I get there and then I'll I'm going to have some snacks with me. So one of the things I was telling our mutual friend Jerry about this I, you know, intentionally and for better or worse, I made this decision because I have something called dyscalculia where like I, it's a dyslexia of numbers and graphs and spreadsheets. And it's basically like dyslexia but for numbers and time and space and rhythm and things like that.
It's a Co occurring condition with my Tourette syndrome, but when I opened up the Gen. Con spreadsheet for the events I basically had a panic attack. I was like, I don't even know where to start with this. I can't even read the lines on it. It was so overwhelming to me that I just made the decision like then and there. I'm like, I'm not gonna buy tickets to all these things this
year. OK. What I and I think in talking to Jerry, I may go back and see if there's just some random things in there that I feel like I now that none of my choices are limited. But also it makes it a little bit easier. It makes it a little bit easier for me to just say I'm just going to go out on a limb and try something new.
Maybe I enjoy it, maybe I don't. But it'll give me something to do and it'll introduce me to Gen. Con, Yes. Then the next year, if I choose to go back, I'll know what I'm doing. I won't be as overwhelmed, right? And I'll be more prepared. I have not a lot invested in my like financially invested in my trip to Gen. con at this point that precludes me from like if I I'm not going to be so disappointed if I don't get to play that very important brand
new super shiny game. Sure. You know, I just, I want to meet y'all and I want to have the experience of the people and understanding what this is about, about, about about and it's it's like, you know, sometimes I get off track because of my tics, but. No, that's OK. I get it. Yeah, you're looking forward to seeing the people. Yeah, and, and understanding, you know, I'm new to the board gaming world in the sense of the community of things.
It's something that has been very special to me in the last, like, I don't know, since I started, I, I think I met my first gamers in like October, that outside of my original circle of friends. And it was a very good timing for me with everything else that was happening in the world as a outlet. And I want to go to Gym Con to explore where that outlet can take me. It could take you far and wide. Lots of different places, yeah. So I want to I want to talk about events for just a second.
Yeah, I was going to ask you. About this So So now I have crafted over when we moved to Illinois. One of the beautiful things that we discovered about moving to Illinois is that we no longer had to live in the board game closet because in Louisiana, it is sportsman's paradise and. Yeah. You don't play board games, right? That is unacceptable. And so you hide in the board game closet. Well, then you get to Illinois and it's like, wow, Midwest,
it's a home. All the big board game conventions, everyone their game game stores at galore. What it meant was that we're three hours away from Indianapolis and Gencot. So 2017 we just went on Sunday. 2018 we just went on Sunday. 2019 I went by myself just on Sunday. And then of course, 2020 there was no convention, but in 2021 my wife and I decided we were going to do the full 4 day experience and get a hotel and everything. And we did.
So I tell you all that to say that my advice to you about events that I'm about to share with you, I've crafted it over time. And so so I, we did it piece meal and we figured out what events work for us, which don't work for everyone else. That's OK. But here's what I believe, and I tell any first time Gencon goers, this is this is important.
And I, I think listening to you talk about your experience with Tourette and going through what we're looking forward to at Gen. Con, I think that structure would help. Yeah. And the beauty of events. I'm a firm believer that if you need structure, or for whatever reason you need structure, you should at least schedule one event per day. That's great advice. Now, whatever that event is for you, you let that be, right?
Like we figured it out, right? If there's a new hot game and we're on the fence about buying it, whatever, we'll sign up for a learn to play where you get to learn it, play the whole game and then you can go buy it. That has served us well in the past. We don't need to do that as much anymore because we discovered another convention in Saint Louis, Geek Way, which is amazing. Less than 5000 people. It's all gaming and it's just great. That's another we're really big
in play testing. We'd love to play test prototype games and there is a space designated for that. You don't have to, you don't have to pay for the tickets, but you do have to sign up for them in advance and they're in two hour windows, so you probably won't see me in the mornings.
One of the things that I hate, and I know that this is contentious because everyone loves it, but I hate it and want no part in it. And that's the running of the Nerds on Thursday morning with 50 + 1000 human beings trying to get in the vendor hall just because it's opening for the first time. Like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to schedule an 8:00 AM play test in the first exposure play test hall, which ends at 10:00, right at the time the doors open.
I'm going to walk out. I'm going to stop at the water refill station and refill my bottle that I've been drinking for the past two hours and just saunter my way in to the vendor hall, waving at everyone and slide on in and see what I want to see. I'm not up for sorry. I'm not OK. I love eating sardines. Jerry, I know you're listening and driving on your way to Gen. Con. You're probably listening to
this. I want to say that I love you and I love Laura, and I'm sorry I did not enjoy your sardines at Origins. I love sardines. I'm sorry we didn't get the number of views or whatever so that I could eat sardines, but I don't like to be packed into a space. Yeah. No, like a sardine. So yeah, so. But again, and my wife and I figured that out, right?
It's like we can do this. And we've met some really good people in the playtest hall, other play testers that like, so we like, we've exchanged emails and personal contact. The only time we see them is in the playtest hall, which is great. That's so much. Fun. That's cool. Like I got to playtest Galactic Cruise, which everyone's talking about. It's just taking the what, you
know what? They were still in prototype, saw it, played it. I made a lot of great friends through through play testing, love play testing. So that's a really great opportunity that might not be for you, but there is an event that you are that is for you. And it's just really good because you have an event in the morning. So it starts your day. I like to start my day and then you can free form. Maybe you need it in the afternoon.
After all this stimuli, you need a place to sit, focus on a single game. You could do that, right? But it helps to order and structure your data. Whatever event you choose, I firmly believe and encourage you into doing that right. Okay, you're right cuz you can go to the Gencom website and you can filter out everything that's been sold out. So that spreadsheet that's so overwhelming. It's real small all the sudden. Yeah, which by the way, I never heard of that condition before
the, I forget. What did you call it? It's called discalculia or discalculia again, Discalculia. I call it discalculia. I'm from Texas originally so I pronounce things a little funny sometimes. Well, but also trying to pronounce Greek and Latin roots, so which I have a degree in both. So there we go. So yeah, that's kind of. I get it. Yeah. I had never heard of that condition and that's interesting. And now either until now you can. I got tested for it.
So interesting. Yeah, so now you could filter all the sold out stuff and it's a much smaller list and I think it'll help you to find something. Weirdly enough, I know that's not how a lot of people would approach things, but that's in the moment. And I'm a planner, like, Oh my gosh. OK, Amanda Lee, if you're listening to this, you're going to be listening to this after I've met you this weekend. So I'm going to Alabama. I'm going to Mobile. Oh yeah, Spanish Fort. Yeah, so.
So you're going to, you're going to, are you going to Fort Morgan? I'm I'm going to be in Spanish Fort specifically so. OK. But who lives but an hour away but MTV 2 Nest Bored Mama, which is Amanda Lee. Is that where she lives? She does not live very far from there, so I. Have. The opportunity to game with her this weekend. The problem is that I don't have a plan yet and it is Tuesday and we're meeting on Friday and I am like I need to but my own ADHD is sitting here being like
haven't messaged her yet. I'm just sitting here stewing in it and this is a cycle of that type of thing. I'll put something off yet I need a plan. Whenever someone around me can limit my options to very few and say these are your options. This is what will happen if you do each one of these and do the research for me, but lay it out so I can make the analysis and make the decision person. I will marry you like I so it's it's good for me.
I needed to wait, I think to parse through the events. But I do completely agree with you that having that structure is important just to keep me on track. It made me feel like I'm not wasting my time, but also that I'm not stewing thinking hey that I'm not going to FOMO, that I didn't make use of. My time, but B that the structure keeps me sane, you know, and has me looking forward to another event and and things like that.
So, yeah, but there's there's also the flip side of this too, where if I've learned anything throughout my career, my off gaming kind of personal life is you never know what opportunities will open up to you and like doors will open up to you by the woman that you meet in the bathroom who fixes your makeup, like by the person in line at the hot dog stand. But and that's when I say being fully present and having those conversations and just not being afraid to get out of your
comfort zone. I think, I think I think is one of the most important things. It's a balance of having structure and a plan, but also being willing to put myself out there in a way that's going to open up opportunities for me to just have fun. Yes. So with new people that I don't know. That's why, that's why I suggest that you not, I mean, I'm suggesting it to you, but to you out there in the ether. If you're going to Gen. Con, schedule one event per day.
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not a big planner. Yeah, But I have discovered through the 16 years of marriage that I need an anchor event or an anchor point. Right. Right. So last year, for my 15th wedding anniversary, my wife and I went to England for two weeks, and we went to London for four days. It was my first international travel cool in my life. So we're landing in London in the middle of the day on Easter Sunday. That's a bank holiday. Oh, my God.
What are we going to do? I don't know what we're doing. I don't know how we're going to get here. I mean, you know, OK, whatever. All the things that you deal with when you're traveling. And it doesn't meant to be international, but I booked a reservation for dinner at 6:00 PM. So that meant that I could get off the plane, get on the train, do whatever I'm free to do, and experience everything around me because I know I have an event at 6:00 PM and I gotta eat. So there we go.
At least I know it. Yeah, it gives me something to rest upon, right? Yes. And you know, if it's a, if it's a free event at Gencon, you don't have to show up. You should. You should because the people plan to the event. They plan, yeah. Yeah, but what happens all the time is I really wanted to play luthier and I wanted to learn it, but they were sold out. But if I hang out at the table, maybe somebody won't. Maybe. Someone will. Yeah, they'll. Let you in sure you know so I'm not.
I would never suppress serendipity. I would never suppress free. Yeah, OK, I said it. Serendipity I. Don't know. Why I'm? I don't know why I'm trying to say it. I'm trying to outsmart myself, that's the problem. You're too smart for your own good. You know, yeah, that's my fault. That's always my problem. But yeah, I don't want to
suppress that. I want you to be able to meet the woman in the bathroom who's like, we're about to play da, da, da. And you're like, I love da, da, da. And I can't wait to experience that. Well, come on, girl. And there you go. Yeah. I have. A plan as well. Which is why I'm a big believer in an event in the morning. Sure. Yeah, Yep. Start the day with the structure and then allow the freedom.
Like that's that's why I love the 8:00 AM play test session because it's just, it's just really cool to get there. I don't have to deal with the crowd and oh, by the way, I just played a game. By the way, you were sitting in a sea of sardines while I played a game. Yeah, exactly. That's great. I'm also I'm unusual because I like to go to bed early. Sure. Yeah. Get up early. So me too.
My wife and I, we like At Origins, we were up at 6:00 AM, so by the time the Convention Center opened, we had taken a swim in the hotel pool, had breakfast, and it already played two if not three board games before the hall opens before everybody wakes up. So it's like, you know, you can play board games early in the morning you. In the morning. Stay up to 5:00 AM or 3:00 AM, you know, but. Well, that is early in the
morning as well, but. It is, but it's, you don't have to stay, you know, But yeah, everyone, everyone is different. The problem is, is that everyone that I hang out with like to stay up late. And so I'm gonna be. Exhausted. I will be exhausted, yes, yeah. And that's OK. That's all right, because my love for my friends overrides my desire for order in the world. Most of the time as he looks up into the. I'm making sure that I believe what I just said.
I was about to say I I'm questioning because the look on your face is just like, I'm not sure. No, no, it's, it's it, it is true. And Jerry has witnessed me stay up way past my desire. You know, I you know, he's he's seen me in my absolute worst. That's funny. Yeah, I do. Yeah. My love for my friends does
override any of that. And the good thing is my wife and I have learned this year, Jen, kind of be interesting because she's going to be there Thursday and she's going to be there Sunday. OK. I will be there the full four days, so Thursday, if we see each other on Thursday. And, and I hope that we do because I want you to meet my wife because she's. Yeah. She. She really is my better half. Everyone loves her, they like, everyone thinks I'm great. But when they meet her, they're
like. PJ she's really that. She's the star here. She's the magic. She's where all the magic happens and I'm not ashamed to say and admit that, but yeah. So Thursday it's going to be her and I. We're going to be spending the time together and then, which is pretty much going to be, we've got 2 events in the morning and then we're just going to wander the dinner hall and do whatever we want and hopefully meet people and that'll be great. But then she's going to leave.
She's going to go stay with her sister for two nights and I will be. So what I like to say is that for Friday and Saturday I will not be PJ, but I will be meatball to meatball love. That. Yes, that'll be that'll be fun, but I still scheduled a 10:00 play test session on Friday and Saturday to start my day. Sure, because I need that order and I love play testing. Is it? Too late to do that. Is that something I could even do at this point?
So here's something interesting, how the play testing works, if it's something you're interested in. And by the way, this is true of anyone else who's going to Gen. Con who's thinking about play testing. All the sessions are sold out. However, this is what happens. So you get a ticket and like I have a ticket, I will show up and then we wait in line and it is kind of a first come, first
serve. So what you do is you get these vague descriptions of games and they're really more like focused on mechanics and a little bit of theme, but they keep it vague because you don't want to know that you're going to play Galactic Cruise. What you want to know is that you're going to play a worker placement game where you are conducting cruise ships in outer space and that's all you know, right? And it plays one to four or this or that, you know? And so you can look at those and
choose. So if you're early enough, you can choose. Now, if you don't have a ticket right at the end when everyone's gotten their seats and this happens every session, there are going to be spots available. And these P these designers need play testers. So you're like, OK, then you can come and you can go sit at a table on Sunday, on Sunday, because everyone's exhausted from all the gaming and late nights and everything. They're looking for people. Really.
They are, yeah. They'll come out into the concourse and be like, hey, you guys wanna come play test a game? Cuz we've got all these, you know, tables with designers and there's no play testers. I've seen that happen as well. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's, it's crazy some of the games that I've gotten to see and I made some great relationships in the process, which is beautiful
for the podcast. That's the other thing too, is that the playtest hall serves me well as a podcaster because it's all these first time designers who have no idea. Sometimes it's like deer in headlights and I'm like, OK, I'm going to hold your hand through this. First of all, you're coming on my podcast because I need content. But second of all, let's, let's, let's. We could do this. This is great. I'm a play tester and a podcaster, so I'm to it for one. Yeah.
So that just serves me well. Sure. But I've made some really great friendships out of the deal. And you can too. But yeah, I would say whatever feels right for you, whomever you may be. But in this case, Cassidy, you know, pick, pick an event and, you know, just start your day and yeah, there you go. See, I, I can even give, I would mean not having been to Gen.
Con, right? Any event that I would go to, I think I would give similar advice about having that kind of structure to it because that is just, that's just a helpful thing to kind of do. I'm that person that needs a plan A, a plan BA, plan C, and if plan A doesn't work out, then I know I've got Plan B. And if Plan B doesn't work out, then I've got plan C. And if that doesn't work out, I've exhausted all my options and I can just be flexible and
I've been flexible the whole time because I'm having to pivot. So that is how I operate in my brain and knowing that at the end of the day there, there's going to be a ton of stuff happening that, you know, we've talked about Jerry a lot. He's gonna have to watch this up or listen to this episode. But yeah, he's going to. He is. Driving on the Interstate on the way to Gen. Con right now, listening to us talk about him. It it it makes sense because he is what you and I have in. Common.
Yeah. So, but I was, well, now I forgot what I was talking to him about. What was I talking to Jerry about this weekend? Because I had a we we were gaming this weekend. And he and I, yeah, he and I are in the same town, essentially.
I'm like 45 minutes from him. But he and I were talking about the, oh, the fact that there's just so much, there's so much to do. And I told him one of my problems is I have an issue sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes I have an issue asking for what I want. I have an issue asking like putting myself out there if I want something respectfully, politely, kindly, like advocating for. I would really like to go into
this session. If you have a free spot, pick me, I usually am that person that set that sees someone else sitting there that's been sitting there a long time that looks really disappointed. And I'm like, let them go. It's fine. You know, let them. I want to make them happy. I want to do that. But I was talking to Jerry about just sometimes you just really need to advocate for yourself and ask for the things that you
want and you can't. If you don't ask or if you don't show up, if you if you don't put yourself out there, then the answer's always no. And so that's where I think my biggest challenge is going to be engine con, just like going to that room and being like, do you have any free spaces? Because I really want to come in there, you know, type type situation. So I'm going to give away some of your secrets, Jerry. Sorry, Bob. Oh no. I was, I was in the room for
that original conversation. Wait, what? That he shared with me. Yes, yes, that, yeah, that that is not a Jerry original. No, he did say it wasn't, but I I wasn't going to share that. So no, it I want to say it was in Nashville at Tennessee game days it. Was he said it was, Yeah. It was Tennessee game, it was him, it was myself, it was Adam from tabletop vibe.
Adam is like, So what I love about Adam and Adam, I know you're probably going to watch this like when this drops rather than wait because he's one of my he just, he's my biggest supporter and he's like, I'm gonna watch this right away. Adam, Adam is all about supporting you, advocating for yourself. Like, yes, that is a principle that is just so sometimes violently and aggressive. He could be a little bit. I love Adam. I would never change him, but he's, you know, he is all about
self advocacy. Yes. And so I can't remember who else was in the room. We were talking about that. If you don't ask, then the answer is no. Always no. Always, always. So it's all about what you want. What do you want? And then ask for it, right? Yeah, within reason. Yeah. There are some people who don't seem to understand. That Wow, Yeah. They don't quite get it. You can advocate or you can be. Pushy. Yes, yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for using that word instead of 1.
I wanted to use, but I can't. Yeah. You know, look, I'm a I'm a firm believer in the fall of man. I'm a fallen man myself. I understand that you're not perfect. I get it. But, you know, we just have to be kind to one another. It's like a it's kind of A tag on. I'm working on it, but I've kind of end all my videos and episodes with, you know, be kind to one another and play more games. I just think that's kind of.
See that's. Great I remember well I was not a big fan of Jerry Springer and I'm totally dating myself now talk show in the afternoon. He always did like this final thoughts that was so because he would put on display humanity at their worst, right? Because it was entertaining and people love to watch human train wrecks. But he would always end his episodes of these really meaningful, thoughtful responses in it. That always stuck with me is like, at the end of the day, we
have to be kind to one another. We have to be compassionate and help us through our difficulties, whether it's, you know, finding a seat at the table or dealing with neurodivergent issues or an angry child. Like if you listen to two weeks ago, I had Susie on, we talked about bringing family to conventions and those challenges. That was a great episode, by the way. I that's when I haven't, that's when I haven't listened to yet. I it's on my list. I need it. I'm going back.
But there were some that you did that I was like super excited to listen to. So I started there and then I've got to go back. Yeah. So we just got to be there for one another, and I'm looking forward to being there for you at Gen. Con and hanging out in whatever capacity that looks like. Yeah. Well, I do appreciate that.
And, and really it truly, it goes back to so many of the questions that you've asked me today or the things that we've discussed has to do with the human condition, which I know is very highbrow and very like esoteric. If that's the right word, I'm thinking it. What's the word I'm thinking of? Esoteric maybe? That's the right word. Yeah, so, but it is just the kindness factor that you're talking about.
As someone who goes out into the world and I get teary thinking about this as someone who goes out, I'm not getting teary. I'm not getting teary. As someone who goes out into the world on a daily basis, knowing that I can't help but look and act different from other people. I have to recognize that everybody else also has their own story, that I have to put myself in their shoes and understand what they're going through. Even if I'm having a bad day.
By me doing that and reminding myself that I have to do that, you can't help but engender kindness. And that's all I'm asking for people in return. So when I go to a place like Gen. Klein and I meet people who are unkind, I can let it roll off my back. What's the phrase that Jinx Monsoon uses? Roll off the ducks back. Water off a ducks back. I think that's what it is.
So. But you have to kind of let it go, forget the unkind people, ask for kindness, give it in return and appreciate it when you receive it. And that is how I know I'm going to be fine. And a large crowd of people on a very stressful, seemingly stage of of things because I can seek that out and I can give that. And if I can't, I just need to take a break. And I'll go to my friend's house and it'll be kind or it'll be fine. But yeah. It's something I, I think about it constantly.
I'm very much very self aware is, you know, even the unkind people aren't, aren't necessarily unkind people. You know, we all have fallen short of the glory. So and I have made many mistakes and I have been unintentionally unkind or failed to be socially aware. It's it's hard because you're dealing with, like you said, it's a human condition. We're all imperfect and we're all complicated and we all carry baggage. And you never know what people are going through in that
moment. And it's yeah, it's, it's hard. It's really hard. And trying to be responsible for everyone. My gosh, you can't do that, PJ. But I'm responsible because I am my brother's keeper and my sister and exactly, you know, and that that's a, that's a fundamental core belief of mine. And so I got to walk that out with fear and trembling. Parent, I'm like, hey, you know what, I was dealing with somebody today and over the weekend who I was very frustrated by This is this is
just an example. I, I had a wonderful gaming weekend. I went to my friend Dave's house and then I went to Jerry's house. I played games on Friday. I played Saturday, Sunday like it was, it was a great weekend, but I was also dealing with the fact that my home was flooding in Texas. Not my physical, my address, home, but like my home. Where you came from? Where I come from, my home was flooding. My niece and nephew were at camp
in the middle of all this stuff. My mom just put her dog down. She had surgery yesterday. There was a lot happening and I had to somehow separate out my fun and my community and my well-being and mental health this weekend and everything else that was happening. In the meantime, I'm working and there's this person who was upset and I finally today just asked what was going on. I, I couldn't understand why
they were so upset. And, and, and I realized they were from Texas, Central Texas, dealing with the same floods that I was dealing with. They were having a really hard weekend and we bonded immediately because I asked and my weekend that they made harder and their weekend that I made harder for them didn't matter anymore, you know, just because
we communicated. Yes. And so that is that is a long way to get around to say, hey, I had a great gaming weekend at the same time that it was really kind of crappy, but I had an honest conversation with another human being that just makes all the difference in the world. So. You got to play like Galileo Galilei. I did. It was great. No, I know that Jerry won. I know Jerry won. That he made it. He made. It a bear everyone. Wait a good what did you think of that game cuz yeah, what did
you think? I really enjoyed it. Here's here's the secret sauce, PJ. I never win. I won four of our six games this weekend. That's what I. Heard Jerry Sauce. Yeah, Yep. So I don't know what happened, but it was pretty great. I did not wing Galileo Galilei, but I I felt like it was a well balanced, fantastic, fun game. Even though I came in last place and it was, it was a lot of fun. So it's interesting.
So we played it on Saturday. We had a friend from Saint Louis who came up to visit for the day and it was one of the games we played. And then y'all played Galileo on Sunday. So my wife and I played it because I was like, all right, let's play Galileo. Galileo again. So here's what's interesting. If you played the game, if you haven't, then I'm going about to tell you a little piece of the game. So one of the actions you can do will trigger and attract
inquisitors from the church. Because the whole idea is you're challenging the contemporary thought that the Earth revolves around the sun and and the focus is Galileo discovers Jupiter and it's moons. So that's the the focus. There's the theme contextually, but you attract inquisitors and on your player board is like a little seller at the bottom, which results in negative victory points.
However, you could take actions that will persuade them of your scientific findings, astronomical findings, and they will move forward and ultimately gain you positive points. Yeah. So here's the flaw. When my wife plays this game, she attracts all the inquisitors. So she ends up with like 6 to 8 of them in her cellar and she's just getting all these negative points. Meanwhile I attract one and then I persuade him because I mean, this is a reflection of real
life. It is easier to change one person's mind than a groups and it it never fails. Twice over the weekend she'd gather up all the Inquisitors and struggle to get them into the positives. And she eventually would. But yeah, she's fighting those negative points during the course. Of the game so. Much, meanwhile, Johann Kepler over here, because that's who I was playing Kepler. Copernicus. Bring one down, convince him that you know this is good. Keep moving and.
Yeah, You know, I wish I could say it was the same way. So for us, Jerry and Jerry's wife said Judy like it was just really interesting because they won because they did early on get their folks, their inquisitors from they persuaded them earlier on. So then they multiple times, once they triggered another inquisition, they were able to get more points. Yeah. And so they were able to get that honestly, you know, it's just you know what bugs me about gaming every time, but you're.
Gonna to tell me yes. I am going to tell you I always get chosen first to go first on those little scrambler things. Yes. I don't know why, you know, there's randomizers on the app, on the phone or whatever. I always get chosen to go 1st and then I always end up either behind the person who's going to have the exact same strategy as me and get there a step ahead, right. So they're they figured out one step ahead of me and I'm just
trailing along the entire game. So and and that happens inevitably and a lot of these like kind of mid weight kind of euro games especially. I don't know why, Jerry. Goodness help me. Jerry, come on. Come on, He got, I was one turn away every single time from getting the most points for the like going up the university track or having the most inquisitors or whatever it may.
Because in Galileo Galilee, by the way, guys, there are ways that you can get in points in game points for doing certain things. And he got there one turn ahead of me 4 times. And I was just thinking how is this possible? It was so infuriating. So yeah. Jeff Jerry. Yeah, that's Jeff Jerry right there. Oh my. Gosh, you know I don't tick when I game. Not not very much, really. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's cool. So when I'm concentrated, like talking to you, it's not so bad.
Or, you know, if I am focused on planning out a turn or if I'm very relaxed or things like that, it's not nearly, you know, as bad. Interesting. Yeah, it's just I, I don't know what it is. It's one of those things that I will preach from the mountaintops about how good board games are for things like Tourette's or with mental health, like for mental health, things along those lines. Not that Tourette's is a mental health condition, but you know what I mean.
I do know what you mean and I I agree and I see that and I would I would scream from the rooftops as well. Absolutely. It's just another reason to convince people, the general populace, why this hobby matters, why this hobby must endure through all the things we're dealing. With for all the things. Yeah. So I was just thinking in my
head, this is so funny. I was thinking about the fact that I was so glad that you're in the Midwest now, because then you're out of the board game closet and that you can perpetuate this hobby and enjoy it and and live it. But then I was thinking about The Who dat thing, the about the sports ball in Louisiana. And I had asked you what The Who dat was from, because I don't know. I'm not a sports ball person. I'm a Braves fan. I watch baseball. Baseball is my jam, but like, I
don't know the football thing. Apparently there's a football team in New Orleans called the Saints. They have it. They have a chant called who dat or like a phrase. And anyway, I definitely, for those of you who are listening, I just demon demonstrated my horrible lack of knowledge about pop culture, sports and anything in between for PJ the other day. So all that to say is I'm glad
that you're in the Midwest now. That's what made me think of Who Dat, but that you have the opportunity to be so involved in this community and doing something that you love and then it makes you happy. Thank you. Thanks for noticing. Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it. Wow. Sometimes you feel like you're in an island and you're isolated. It's funny. Sometimes you know, it's just, it's, it's, it's different.
The thing about this podcast is this is when I feel my truest self talking to a friend back home in Baton Rouge who, you know, I mean, like it. It reminds me of who I was when I was an undergrad. I feel that. I feel that inside. And yeah, and it's about board games. Like, who would have thought? I know. Would. Have well, you and I had a conversation too, because I started out playing solo board games, and I did it specifically
because it helped with my ticks. I needed, I needed something talking about my time after our D&D campaign had ended. I enjoyed playing board games with my friends. So I said, why don't I play solo board games and you and I talk to you do not enjoy playing solo board games the same way that I do. And it's so interesting the avenues and the introductions that each of us have into this hobby and what really we find fulfilling and enjoyable and,
and things like that. But it does not change the fact that we're all part of this common thread that kind of links us all together, right? And I, I love that. I absolutely love that. So the Roman order, Cicero said. All of the humanities are inherently linked as if by a common bond, and I find that to be true every single day. So. So Cassidy, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for being vulnerable and open and educating me and everyone who's listening.
I'm excited to see you at Gen. Con. I'm sure Jerry is going to be tickled pink on the drive home or the drive to his name. 1000. Times and talked about him so much just. Because he's. Yeah, there. There is no one else like Mr. Worldwide. Oh, my God. Yeah. Thank. Thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it. It's overdue.
And I even wore purple in honor of Tourette's syndrome month, awareness month, which we were supposed to do a thing and then we didn't do a thing and I got sick. So I see that you were the presence of my mind even before getting. I was like, OK guys, I gotta, I gotta address the part. I gotta you're. So funny. Well, you know, it's it's yeah, that's what I do. That's what I do.
I really appreciate you being a driving force behind conversations like this because honestly, if it weren't for the vulnerability of someone asking the questions, because it takes a heck of a lot of courage to ask a question and say, I don't know, right? Yep. And that's the only way you can learn. And I'm always happy to answer those questions. And if you put yourself out there, I'm going to honor that. So I do. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you.
Thanks. Well guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for sticking around. Please make sure to like and subscribe. We're again trying to get to 100 followers or subscribers on YouTube by October, which will hit one year for YouTube. Yeah, a lot of lot of stuff down the pipeline still to come. I've got a series that I want to work on once Gen. Con is over, so that'll be exciting. Yeah. So just remember, be kind of one another and play more games.