E127. Catnip to Cardboard

Hey guys, welcome to episode 127 of Meeple to Meeple, it is catnip to cardboard today. That's right, this is a little bit interesting. I'm really excited to present this to you. So I want to say that board games often become a microcosm of cultural experiences, especially when you're living abroad. The rules may seem confusing, but eventually you figure things out. You learn how to enjoy the process and more importantly, the shared experience of the

table. You're able to adapt and even embrace the rules no matter where you are playing today. My guest Co host embodies this very experience of living abroad and embracing multiple language rules. And without that, I've just got to tell you today I've got with me is Jennifer. Jennifer, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you PJ? I'm excited to have you on this is this is great. This is this is incredible because so you are an American who has now living in southern France.

That's correct. I'm American, from California, and then I moved to Paris around nine years ago and I lived there for a year and then now it's been 10 years that I'm in France and I'm in Bordeaux. So it's the city of Wine. Oh, I love that. Very fancy, Awesome. Well, what little French that I can remember is bienvenu and Maple to Maple. Merci. Citridonte. Guys are like what? That's perfect French then. Also, that's welcome to. That's right. It's about all I got.

So I'm really excited to talk to you because first of all, like, I want to hear about how the circumstances that led you to moving to France and now Bordeaux, which is exciting. But also I'm interested in like the the gaming culture there and everything like that. But yeah, so before we get into that, tell me, what was the first board game that got you into the hobby? Did it happen in America before you came to France? Did it happen while you're in France? And what game was that?

So I did play a lot of games as a kid. It was more like Apples to Apples or Wizard Ology. It was 1 based on a book and a little bit of Monopoly, the different versions, Disney, etc. But when I came to France a few years in, I think about five years ago, six years ago, I saw the game Villainous. And also there was a game, Ninokuni, and it's a board game based on the video game. And as I loved the video game Ninokuni, it was very attracted to that and I decided to give it a try.

And once I tried Villainous and I tried Nina Kuni, I saw that there was more than just Monopoly, more than just apples to apples. So I started watching videos on YouTube like from Tear Diced Games and they suggested a few for two people and I saw Everett Ellen. The rest is history. After Everett, I fell in love. That seems to be more and more the case, right?

It's interesting. So there was there was a wave where it was like everyone's their first game was Katan and then it was Carcassonne. You're hearing more and more to Everdell was at the beginning of people's journeys. I really enjoy the fact that you didn't hit the modern board game world until you got to France. Yeah, you were. Playing You were playing Ameritrash classics, basically. Yeah, yeah, Basically, yeah. That's OK, All right.

I love. I was a lot into video games though, before I for the five years before I got into board gaming in France, I was playing video games all the time. So it was a little bit easing me into it. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Well, so here's what do you feel about there's a lot of video games that they turn into board games and what are your thoughts on those? Are they in European? Are they mostly successful? Are they partial? What do you think?

What are your feelings? I think most of the time they're not so good when they follow an IPI don't generally like them. I do have the Sally Face Strange Nightmares 1 based on the Sally Face board game and I do like that when it just follows the story and you're able to immerse yourself inside. I do like it, but most of the ones that I tried were not so

not so good. Mino Kuni for example was not my favorite, but it at least brought you into the art style and you got to see everything again. The names, the Yeah, the universe. OK, yeah, I'm not, I'm not a big, I never have really been a big video gamer. I mean, you know, I'm 50 years old. So I remember like Atari and Commodore 64 and yeah, so I mean, obviously I when I growing up as a kid, I played video games, but I preferred more tactile that board game and what not.

And then as, as the modern consoles came up, you know, PlayStation, the Xbox and all, it's kind of like, I just, I didn't really, I mean, didn't get into it too much. So there's a lot of board games that I thought, wow, these are really cool board games. And then later on I find out, oh, these are video games. They converted. I'm like, oh, that's interesting. So yeah, I'm just, I'm not, I don't know what's in the video game world. Have to say I'm kind of

ignorant. I need to educate myself a little bit 'cause it's. It's a huge, it's a huge university. You might get immersed and then float somewhere else. That might happen. So talk to me about the gaming world in Bordeaux. Is it predominantly video games? Is it board games? Is it a mixture? I would say it's still mostly video games, yeah, board game is still seen as a, oh, you're playing Monopoly or you're playing Twister or things like

that. So I, I think it's still that the case in France, there is certain like small festivals or board game cafes. And what was I going to say? There are board game cafes, the festival and then an association that you can join like a club so that it does exist. But I don't, I don't very much see people. Yeah. Into the gaming team, no. Are there and please apologize. I apologize for my ignorance here of French administration culture and whatnot.

Are there similar institution? You know how we have public libraries? Do they have public libraries And, and and if they do, do they do they offer board games because that's becoming more common here in the US. Do you are you see any board games that you can like check out at the public libraries in France? It's. Been like 7 years since I really went into one. So I don't, I don't know. I don't think so, but back then I know there was none. None seven years ago then. That's interesting.

OK, so that's cool. I find it interesting though, that their attitude is still the same as it is here. You know, right. Like just. Still a bit weird we're on the side.

Yes, I guess my, I guess not. My assumption, my thought process is, you know, is it there's this because there's a, there's a long, long, storied connection between the US and France. I'm reminded of a quote bite from Charles Truehart. He said that France in the United States are bound by history and revolution and also by mutual admiration and misunderstanding and. I'm. Like, OK, well, there you go. Right, right. Because they're siblings.

Our yes, they were our first ally in our revolution. Our revolution inspired theirs. As an archivist in the professional world, which is what I do, the the modern archival world comes out of French and American philosophical thought and professionalism. So there's definitely connections, but certainly misunderstandings as well. Also, being from southern Louisiana, there's a lot of heavy French influence, but it's, it's filtered through the Caribbean a lot.

It's not a direct French, you know, So yeah, I. Guess there's a lot of missing. A bit like Creole, the is. Yes, it's very Creole. Yes, yes, there's a lot. It's more like that. And so that's kind of the lens in which I understand French culture. And so I'm just like, all right, cool. Well that that must be France. No, it's not. You know better, you know better. So tell me a little bit about your do you have a local? Are you a member of a local club or a born game?

Community or anything I did I did want to join it but I was already doing content creation so it was a bit like it would take too much of my time when I'm already working. So I did want to, but maybe when I'm not so much posting. Right, so who do you play board games with? With myself, the kids, No. And also my partner, my partner, friends who come over, my partner's family. I'm alone here in France. My family's not here. So whenever I can play with her family, friends, yeah, or at the

breaking cafes. OK, so there's the cafes and then you have a small gaming group that you play. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but mostly myself and my partner. Right what? What kind of games do you and your partner favor? We do like cooperative ones, but mostly competitive and she she's always winning. It's not usually me that's winning. And what do we like? We like Everdel. Also dungeon crawlers, so lobotomy, zombie side and just a huge mix. Also Euro, Euro games we like to.

Sure, Yeah. So what about at the board game cafes? Are there any because that's more, that's more you're playing with maybe strangers probably or is not. Really with friends from university. I did friends from university. So like code names Similo Yeah, more of those. What about what about you with your with your wife? Oh so we prefer any exclusive 2 player games? I, if I find a two player only game, I want a copy of it, even if it's rubbish. Yeah, I, I love two player

games. We have a small group here in Springfield that we play with, you know, but we're, we're, we're limited by either what their tastes are or, you know, just whatever they, they feel inclined to play. So a lot of two players, my wife and I are really big into campaign games. We so we're in the middle of we're in the middle of Frost Haven been playing that for over a year. We have ether fields that we just picked up from awakened realms. That's sitting on the side to play.

We're in the middle of ISO Farian guard by sky Kingdom. That is a two player only cooperative campaign that you and your partner might really like. It's it is it's incredible. The box will not fit in a Cal X cube. The box is so big. But we'll just have to present it on the side. Well, you know, The thing is you can play and then you can you you you set put everything back, but you whatever it like when you build your bag, the chips that are in your bag, you just

leave them in your bag, right? And then you put those in the box. So when you take it out, you're ready to go again. And it's a lot of fun because it's two player only. So you don't have to like like with Frost Haven, there's four of us and it's like, if somebody can't make it this week, I mean, you could play without them, but that's not fun because you want them to. They're along for the story, you know. Yeah. So, yeah, but, but Isoparian

guards, a great one. The other one we're in is ISS Vanguard, which is another Awaken ROMs campaign. Man, we've been, we love that. Hasn't at the table yet this year, but we need to, we need to get to it. But yeah, so campaigns two players, you know? Do you do the audio? Do you listen to the audio? I did notice Azafarian guards did have a SO. We tried and we didn't like it. We do.

I started for Frost Haven. I started using the Foreteller app because I recently, as all of my followers and listeners know, I've been, I've been struggling with bronchitis. So rather than, and I'm usually the one that's doing the reading. So the Foreteller app really helped with that, preserving my voice and not packing up a lung while you're trying to tell a story or anything of that nature, you know, So that's, that's frustrating too.

But I thank God for that. ISS Vanguard has its own app. So we do use that. My wife will follow along in the log book just to make sure because sometimes if I accidentally hit a button, it might save data that maybe we shouldn't have saved because she'll keep notes, you know, and things of that nature. But so what's hitting your table recently? What is your, what is your current? What is your current obsession? Final girl I am. Final Girl.

Yeah, I'm a I'm a huge, huge horror fan, so Final Girl is where I get to live my little horror movie. So that one's mine. Yep. Yeah, that's a great one. Because it's solo, right? And then as a horror fan, it's horror in not inspired, it's horror, right? Yeah, every single box is based on films or inspired by films, so it's really allowing you to immerse yourself inside a different film each time and

then mixing it up if you like. And I have the whole collection so far and I'm trying to build it. Wow. That's. There's I'm a bit upset there's. A lot of content. I think what I've noticed is people who play final Girl are just like you. They have to have it all and they play it all the time, which I think is great. A bow from from from Denmark. He was on a couple of weeks ago where we did solo games. He talked about Final Girl as one of his favorite solo games. We talked.

Solo. Yeah. Yeah. Because even if it's random, even if you lose, you deserved it. It's a horror film. Why are you supposed to win? I don't really mind in that game. Someone has to survive in order to tell the story, right? Yeah, but not not all the time. I'm I'm often losing more than I'm winning, right? Yeah. But at least at least I get to go through the story of it. Right. No. And, and some of these narratives just are so creative. I recently played Primal, which is not solo.

It's a cooperative kind of fight. Fight the dragon, one of those monster killer games, beautiful miniatures. The narrative was just amazing. The writers on some of these are just incredible. You know, I just. I need to write that down, then Narrative and Jenny that that goes together. Yeah, it is. It is cooperative. It is fighting Dragons. It is called Primal. I don't remember the subtitle, but you'll. You'll I'm I'm writing it down right now. Thank you. Yeah, you are very welcome.

You take that. Yeah. So that's one worth checking out. It has some issues with the mechanics a little bit, but otherwise it's just such a rich narrative. Another rich narrative is Are you familiar with Scythe by Stoner? I am familiar but I have not played it myself but I did watch a lot of things about it. There's a there's a campaign that's separate. It's like an expansion. It's the rise of Fenris and there's no audio narration for it.

And so when we first played it, like you're reading from the book and it's like, it's like 10 pages and it's one of those spiral books. So there's and it's full pages and it's just got a rich story and I'm I'm a. Sucker for? I'm a sucker for a rich story. I want a well written, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the reason why I've been to a Red Raven as well. I really love Creature Caravan.

Creature Caravan doesn't have the story elements, but sleeping Gods above and below now and never near and far. I love those ones. Yeah. Are you into any of those? So we played Sleeping Gods and we ended up selling it because we had been through it twice and while we hadn't explored everything, we were just kind of like, Yep, we're done, we got it. Yeah, you know, it just kind of it it. The story was cool. The story was cool, but we figured someone else would enjoy it.

So we reset everything, put it in a box. Especially if you've already played it, if you've already played it enough, it's, it's right, it's, it makes sense to want to go forward with something else. Did you try near and far or any of the other ones? We haven't. We haven't played either. Near and Far Above and Below have not played them. I'm constantly reminded I've been thinking about this now at the time that you're listening to this episode, I will have

already returned from origins. But at the time that we're recording this, I will be in Origins next week and everyone's everyone in the chat groups like what are you bringing? What are you bringing right? And so everyone wants to bring like their entire collection. And I'm a firm believer when I travel, I'm traveling light. We're bringing two games only because we promised to teach them, and that's it.

I say that because I'm constantly reminded of just how many board games there are, you know? So to play. Them hard to narrow down. Right. Yeah, I think that's we all would. We would all love to quit our jobs and get paid to play board games. I know I would. I don't know.

I think honestly, to be honest with you, that would not be fun for me. What would it would be fun is to be able to quit my job and talk about board games all day, because that's what I'm good at. And you're and you're already doing it, so just make it more. Exactly. I'm not getting paid to do this, I'm paying to do this, right? Yes. So I got I got to figure that out. So let's talk about the title of the episode, Catnip to Cardboard.

You are known as like the perfect gamer because you're a cat mom of two adoring feline friends, Anakin and Ohana. Do either of them have favorite board games that they like to jump on the table for? Like are they a little bit discerning? I've had cats. In the past, yes, yes, yes, yes, a bit too much. That's why I created Perfect Gamer. It was because they were there anyway, so might as well take the photos right they. Have a favorite game they like

to jump on the table for? Anakin right here is little Paul. He really, really likes any game with a play mat. So I have a play mat for Tapestry Final Girl. Those are the ones he he will be there in a second as soon as he hears that. But it started with Cosmoctopus. He likes the little tentacles and he came and he was just playing with the pieces. But he's he's not really bothersome at the table, right? He he he still stays there sleeping like this.

And Ohana, I don't think she's not that interested. She comes, she comes when she wants, but she's not really hopping on to to be board gaming with me. It's not a thing. Right. Our, our two cats, Lursa and Baitor, they, they will jump on the table. They don't have any favourites. It doesn't matter if we're playing a board game, then we're not paying attention to them. So they got to jump on the table. But it's, it's interesting, these two and their sisters, these two are really careful

when they walk. They don't knock anything over intentionally anyway, but typically 8 or has to sit in the chair right next to Katie and Larsa will sit next to me typically. So they want to be at the table and sit at the table. Our previous cat, I wish I could remember what episode was. We did a memorial episode for my cat Shrimp, who had died in November of. 23 I think, yeah, November of 23. And Gareth and I did it.

We just, I just talked about my cat for an hour and she had some favorite games, but she liked to is like no matter what, she had to sit, she had to be in a chair and she would like put her paws up on the top of the table and just watch. She wouldn't jump on the table, but she had to watch. She had to be like she'd be. She was more of a person, you know? I'm. Going to play with you, but yeah, really, really miss her. But Lisa and Baito are just just as lovely as well.

And shrimp is such a cute name. Oh. Yeah, well, she was, I mean she was like this big when we got her and that's hence the name. And yeah. Yep. How long have you had both the cat? Did you bring them with you or did you get them in? France. No, I got them in France. I was actually afraid of cats before. It was my partner. Yeah, my partner. She kept saying, oh, come on, you got to try it. I was scared that they would claw me or hiss or just bite me. I'm not.

I wasn't sure how cats acted with other people. And it wasn't until she suggested getting a Maine Coon. And when we got Ohana, Ohana was our first one. She was so small, like your discovery is so, so small. And I fell in love right away. My heart dropped. It was melting. I was and I was playing with her. She was so cute. And we got to and again shortly after. So they're about 8 months apart. And I think we have an app that tells us exactly how old they are.

And I think four years and nine months and four years and three months for or something like that, but both four years. I love it. That's great. Yeah. How old are your cats now You you've adopted them? Recently, yeah, we, we had they in August. We'll have had them for a year, but they were two. So they're probably 3 years old now. They were two when we rescued

them. So and like a week before we went to the shelter and rescued them, they had a third sister who was rescued by an older lady. And that cat was like a calico, a cat, whereas these two are like Gray and just. The Beautiful. Beautiful spitting images of one another, almost. And they've got that. They've got the five did the what do you call that? The Terra. Polydactyl Polygon mine. Too pterodactyl, yeah, no polydactyl, yeah, it's. It's I'd rather have a

pterodactyl cat. Yeah, exactly. But they love to be a part of the gaming table they're mostly on. You know, they're not too interruptive. I love that you were originally afraid of cats and now you are the perfect gamer. It's a bit strange. The cat mom gamer in southern France I love. That, yeah. That is, that's incredible. Yeah, now I'm not afraid at all. They, my cats helped. They. Helped. And they're really, they're really active in your content creation.

They're in every photograph pretty much. Every single one. Every single. How many, how many pictures do you have to take, right? Or are they really? Because so in the pictures you post, your cats are perfectly still. It's just like they're so attentive. How many pictures does it take for you to get to that one? 30 yeah, it's yeah, a lot of me taking the same thing at the same time, but they generally know how to stay still but looking at the camera is the harder part and so.

Challenge. I'm putting like stuffed animals on my head or making some like, sounds like, come on, Anakin. Yes, these, these these are the things that us cat parents have to struggle with. Yeah, behind the scenes. Behind the scenes, it's so true. Yeah. I don't usually post them in much of the content that I create. I think I did a reel for Tokaido Duo and Baitor just wouldn't get off the table. So I'm like, well, you're going to.

Be a part of this you're. Going to be fine, but usually not typically it's it's when we have friends who want pictures of our cats or you know us, we like to share pictures of our cats less parents, right? It's trying to get them to look at the camera. And then once we do, you'd get that right photo, you delete the rest and you're like, hey. Look. What they're doing today, yeah, it's amazing. Truly amazing.

So what about how? How difficult was it for you to adjust to playing playing games in a foreign country and learning rules in a foreign language? Now I understand you, you're fluent in French, you had to be to move there, but but still learning a board game with the rules in a in a language that's not your native language. What? What was that like, and how did you adapt to that microcosm of shared experiences? I think I did my studies here, I did my bachelor's and master's

here. So having that background of really knowing higher level words did help and it also helps you learn how to guess what the words in between that you don't understand mean and reading rules playing games as I started mostly becoming a modern board gamer here, I was introduced to the words directly and it makes me more tired if if the game is in French and I have to learn the rules in French and often

there's translation errors. I remember I was playing Tapestry and I was trying to learn how to play solo and the French translation had an error in it about where do you place one of the pieces, and that quite irritated me. I had to look up online what the English original part was and then that helped. But yeah, I know it makes me more tired to do the French one. But as I'm fluent now, it's it's

quite the same. It's more about buying the French games that we know will be playing with her family or making sure that we have an English copy for when my family visits. But there's not really a now, there's no difficult part, but it, it came from doing my studies here, I think. Right. OK, learning history in French is playing a board game in French is easier than that? Yeah, yeah, I think that's true

of anything. So I when I was in Graduate School, I had to learn one of the languages I had to study because I was studying ancient history. So Latin, Greek, right? Coptic, all the ancient. Languages, the hard ones. That came, well, they came easy because you only have to read them because they're not spoken right. But then you have to learn some modern languages. So I was learning German because there was a lot of German scholars writing about the

ancient world. So I had to be prepared. I was playing a lot of Catan and I picked up a bunch of expansions and content that was written in German. And I was like, well, I'm really familiar with the vocabulary of board games and rules and Catan that maybe it'll help me to learn my German. Nope, Nope. No. No, it did nothing for you. No, if if anything, it made me give up because it was just more difficult, which was frustrating because I thought I have I want

to learn right? Like I I'm because it's it's gaming. It's like this would be great. That, that does remind me of something. I had a friend he had, he had lived in Canada. He was from China. He came from a lot of places too. And he stayed in France for about the same amount of time as I had. And I considered him more fluent than I was at that time. We were both at university and I invited him to play a game over at my house and he didn't understand one of the words.

And it was the word draw, like draw a card. And I was shocked. I was like, wow, how do you not know that word wow? So you can be very good at French and just not understand the ones really related to the board gaming. Right, Yep, I could see that when you okay, so if you were going to order a game online or go to a local game cafe, I'm assuming the game cafes also sell board games. Is that yes?

So you're going to buy a board game for yourself, whether it's a solo game or it's a game you know you're going to play with your partner. Do you prefer buying it in English or is it so natural? You'll buy? You know, if it's in French it doesn't matter. If there's narrative elements to it, almost always English because that's usually the original language it was made in, so we want to know the how it was made to begin with without going through a translation.

So something like Lance of Gauzier we would definitely get in English. Speaking gods in English in French? I can almost. I would take French for other ones, but mostly English unfortunately. I've been here for 10 years but it's still English. That's my cozy place, my home. Do you dream in French? No, no, no. I would say probably everything is in English for me and French is my surroundings. If I have to go to the store, go to the pharmacy, right, the doctor, anything like that?

It's French. Because that's when you're fully not acclimated. There's a word for it if you dream in that language. Not really. You're. It's not immersed, it's not acclimated. There's another word for it, but I don't know. I've read that not about French, but just about in general. You. Know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, when you dream in that language. So what about publishers in Are there, are there any publishers in France games that are coming here?

Yeah. Ones that Pope make games that can be in the United States and everything or just the translations. No, like, yes, games that can be distributed anywhere, right? Because I'm trying to think that I think there's one right? Because there's always, there's this, there's a series of games where the label says, sorry, we're French on it and I. Can't. I think that is the name. Is that the name? I think that's it. I think that's the name.

Yeah, I remember seeing that. I think that was the name. But also there's Madago. Madago. OK, so Madago is French, OK. It's the French. They do the translation for Button Shy. They have their own way of publishing Button Shy rather than having all the colors, a certain color for solo as in color for dual games and then different translations. But I don't know, I haven't really looked into it. If they make their own, I think it's just an editor.

Yeah, but. I know you said that it's really similar to the US where people hear Borgans and they assume, oh, you're playing Monopoly or Risk. But but I'm curious, is there any big convent? Is there like a big convention in France? So England has UKGE, right? We clearly have Origins, Gen. Con and Dice Tower and there's a lot, but I think that's because our country is so, so big, more than we're so prominent in the. Industry. Essen Spiel is in Germany.

I was wondering if there was like is there one in France like Paris? Is there? There are, There are. I think it was. I haven't gone. My partner's sister did go and we have family that did go. But I believe there's one in Cannes and in Tuls, which they're both in Southern France, but I haven't, I haven't seen any in in Paris that I've heard of. We did have a small one in Bordeaux and it was just a few publishers coming and it was in partnership with a board King Cafe.

So it's mostly those types of things. It's not as big as Etchen Spiel or or Origins. No, I don't. I can't think of any that's as big. OK. So there's what we're starting to see, particularly in the Midwest, we're seeing a lot of rise of these, these smaller conventions that are centered strictly around gaming and they're usually anywhere is between 400 to 2000 attendees, right? Is that so? So the little one you're talking about is probably smaller than.

Yes, there was also a way Board Game Geek Festival. That one was a few weeks ago and it was much smaller. Much smaller because it's also linked with like cosplay video games and the board game aspect is just a small part and it's new. I think it's only about a year or two years old. So I think board gaming is starting to become a thing here, but I wouldn't say it's huge. Not like in Germany or. So now comes the tough question. Here comes the tough question. You ready for this one?

No. What have you been? What have? No, it's going to be fine. What have you been doing to build and nurture a board game community in your area? What have I been doing? I've been influencing people around me to play games. Yeah. So the people who I went to university with, instead of just going to have a drink, go to a bar, going to go dancing, I would say, what about a board game cafe? Or how about we come and play Everdel? That one's a really great game.

I think you'll like it. So I do try to get the people around me to play games. My partner's family wasn't really into games before and we got them into it. And so I think it's like just the people around me first. I haven't really branched out too much, but I did speak with the association at the club and you're in my city, and I was really, really interested in joining that because they're just nerds like me. We're all just the same, yeah.

We're all the same. Yeah. So does that mean that you do you generally teach the games when you're playing? Yes, for my partner, both of us, we do it this thing. I'm a bit more Oh, and then this rule. Oh, and then this. So I'm not very I'm not as organized as she is. I don't know about you. Who's the Who's the one teaching with you? No, Katie, Katie's the she's the teacher. And I think, yeah, that's

definitely the case. So the The thing is, I think the reason why she and I compliment each other so well and she said this so I'm not speaking out of turn. I've heard her. Say. And to be honest with you, this is this is true not just in gaming, it's true in our in our work lives, It's true in our home lives and when we're gaming. I'm a big picture guy, right? I'm like the 10,000 foot view.

I see the big thing. I'm really into the the theme of the board game and I'm interested in getting you excited. I get you to the table. But Katie's, I like you. Katie is very detail oriented and she wants to make sure that you understand the rules so that you can enjoy the shared experience that I have just worked hard to get you to to come to. And so in that regard, we work really well together. So you can imagine that works really well like in our in our

professional lives as well. Because. As I've said before, I work for her. She is my boss at work and so it's great. She's detail. So I just kind of, I kind of do all the, I get all the ideas and then she sifts through the idea she doesn't like, and then she. Organizes. Right. She organizes and then she comes back to me with a list of marching orders and says go. And I'm like, yes ma'am. And I'm like, let's do it so. Say what? We're very much the same.

My, my partner is much more organized, more detail oriented and doing it in order. I was saying, oh, you see that piece over there? That's really important for this. But I, I, I am able to teach. I'm not the best teacher, but I am able to. Yep. Do you struggle? And I do. Do you struggle with following the order of operations in a game? Because you know how. At the end of each.

Round at the end of each round, there's like steps before, you know, I really just kind of consolidate at all and do it right, yes. As long as it's done so. Yes, that's how I feel. Same thing we, I think we were playing deep regrets and my partner was a bit frustrated with it didn't make sense to her, the certain order of the things and she wanted to make sure that we really did it in the right order so that we don't miss anything.

And I was just like, it makes sense, you know, just do this, do this, do that. As long as you do all of the first steps before you get into fishing. And so I wasn't getting frustrated, but she was like, we have to make sure we get every point right. I've got, I have friends here in town that are very much they, they want to stick to the order of operations. So try, so I try to be respectful to that. I'll be honest with you. There are a couple of games that

I personally experienced. I wasn't playing with these friends. I was playing with some other folks and I was thankful for their attention to the detail of the order of Operations. I'm thinking about Star Wars Imperial Assault, which is a massive miniature campaign game, dungeon crawler if you will, centered around Star Wars. And at the end of each round there is an order of operations

that have to happen. And so it's really important because it could potentially affect the next round for your players because it's a 1V all one person plays the Empire and then you have 4 rebel heroes, right? And so you want to follow those rules. And so I've taken it away from some of my my friends who are more more detail oriented, but I still fall short. I fall. I don't want to look at the rules all the time. I know, I know. I don't either. I don't.

Yeah. But without rules, there's just chaos. Yeah, Yep. But yeah, I'm more the the big picture kind of person. If we're explaining rule after, for example, my partner needs to read the rules. If we haven't played for four months again, she needs to really go back into it. I'm just like, OK, I think we need to do this, this and this. I'll look at the rules if I need to for that aspect. But she's like, no, no, I need to read the entire thing. Yes. What do I have to do?

Do you need to? Do you need to read it first or are you good to jump in? My wife needs to read it. I'm like let's just do it. But to be to be clear, she's right and so is your partner. You and I are wrong. You and I are wrong because unfortunately, yes. It's so true. We just want to dive into it, You know, I I'm all about that experience. But yeah, you've got to, you've got to refresh. I think you need a mix of both, like not getting so caught up in the details that you get frustrated.

But yeah, it's. Really helpful though. The fact that you have your partner, right like that, that's the perfect, that's the perfect melding of personalities is so that we can have both, right? Because you want to make sure, especially when you're with friends or strangers, if you're playing with new, new newcomers to the hobby, you want them to have fun. So you and I, our personalities can do that, but our partners can help us to keep things. Yeah. And it's really good.

So I want to ask other than Everdell, if you were or do you, when you're introducing a game to a bunch of new players, right, you're bringing, you're bringing a group, whether it's at the cafe or at your house or wherever, do you have a preferred gateway game? Right? We typically call them that a gateway game that you like to teach to newcomers to the to the hobby. Is it do you have like a go to that you're like?

We're going to teach. This we do, like Let's Go to Japan because it's a game that can be played with everyone playing at the same time and it's passing the cards around so it's not so difficult to explain. It's also a concept that most people understand. Planning a vacation is just OK, what can we do on this day? What kind of day do we want to have? So that one, it makes sense to people.

It's pretty. We have a lot of the deluxe components, so it's a nice game to get game right to get people who aren't into gaming to the table and we've tried with a few people and it works. Yes. That. That's a really good choice. We had Josh Wood on the show earlier this year. I. Entered. I entered. Him and we talked about let's go to Japan for an hour, which was great so.

Guys. Again, if you haven't, if you haven't listened, if you haven't listened to that, go back and check out Let's Go to Japan interviewing with Josh. Wood no Very good game. That's a really good game to teach. I think that might be one of the few games that I might be able to teach. For those of you, if you've listened to last week's episode, it was. It's all about teaching gains to newcomers and. And Brian talks at length about his choices, but that's a really good one.

And we didn't think about it. Let's go to Japan's a good one. Yeah. It's so accessible too. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Do you are there? Do you have any others? Are there any others? Is that? I think also some of the KTBG ones. So creature caravan. Oh so not so creature comforts, Maple Valley, the diced veggies, all of those are they're not so hard to teach and they're spots. Spots was a good one. A lot of you roll. Dice and you put it on. Yeah, a lot of our friends in

England talk about spots. I've never played it, but they. Really no dice ones are great dice, you just have to roll place it on, it's easy to explain. I think that people are shocked when they see diced veggies, right, because you take the knife and you cut the dice away. Yeah, yeah, I. Think that's something you it's it's accessible game because we know, we all know what dice are like and the color coding that's easy.

Yeah. But counting having the little pips have an yeah have an impact as well. That's cool. I do like that one. So that was that was pretty easy to explain. Yeah, I agree. I think another one is heat Pedal to the Metal. I'm not really big of a racing fan, but I've got to tell you, as far as racing games go, that's a really. That's a good one.

Really good. Yeah. And it's not dice because you kind of have a you can, you can, there are expansions that allow for this, but there's a little bit of card drafting and so you can craft your own deck. It's not really deck building so much because you do all of it at the beginning, but you have asymmetrical decks of cards and you use those cards to race around the track.

And so it's it's kind of cool, but you've got to be careful because when you hit corners, your total number can't exceed the number at the corner. Otherwise you. Spin. You'll hit yeah. Or you'll gain heat cards because you're overheating your engine. The theme, really. The theme really informs the gameplay. Yeah, yeah, when the theme is good, when it theme matches the gameplay, it really helps. But you get to push these little fun cars around the track, and who doesn't love that?

That's a good, yeah, that's a good gateway game too. And it's not, it's not rules heavy. So I think no matter what, and it's Days of Wonder. So they do a really good job of there's always like a French, a German, an English copy. Of the translation. Their translations are really good. Days of Wonder's a really good company that provides you with multiple language rule books when you buy the game. Very helpful. So that it's accessible and that's. Helpful for.

For introducing to newcomers as well. So, yeah, yeah. We do that. Sometimes. We take like a game if we want to be able to play it with my partner's family and they only speak French. If the game's in English, we do try to translate on their phones.

We would take a little summary of what we find important and then make sure that that translation is available for them, and that's worked with us. Let's Go to Japan is the one that we've played with them a lot and it's in English and they were able to do it. It is quite language independent so it's not dependent on it, but it does help to be able to have extra little information on the side for how to play.

Which I think is really, I think that's important, that language independence to make games accessible. Yes, almost always. Those are the ones that we buy too. Yeah, it works. And other. Yeah. Have you played Carcasson? That's the one that we do, Yeah, that was probably the first one I played in France too. Really. Have you been? Have you been down to Carcasson? I did, yes. Yeah, but my goal is to play Carcasson in Carcasson, Yes. I haven't done it yet. I need to do it.

Yes, you've got to do that. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, it's on the bucket list. So when when Katie and I were when we started dating and we were both in Graduate School, she already had the big box for Carcassonne with like, I think, I think at the time when we met, it was like there were five expansions. And this one included all 5 expansions. There have been since multiple others beyond that. But yeah. So it's tile placement, which is my absolute favorite board game mechanic.

Like, yeah. I will, yes. I will. I will forgo playing a tile that will help me as long as it fills in holes in the map. Because really? I. Because I want AI want a perfect map more than I want to win the game. But. Oh really? You're not the type to ruin other people's plans. In certain games, yes, but in tile placements, probably not, no. You're a perfectionist in that sense. I just. Yeah, needs to look good, Yeah. I remember growing up as a kid having maps hanging on my walls.

So I've kind of this affinity for for maps. And so I love the tiles and being able to, you know, build this world right here in 2 dimensions in front of us. So. So yeah, I absolutely love that. Carcassonne's a good one. I would love to go to Carcassonne and play Carcassonne. That would be. We can do it together. It's on my bucket list so we can do it together. How far away from Bordeaux is Carcos on?

I can take a train ride there, so I think the last time I took maybe 2 hours, two to three hours. It's not that bad, yeah. That's not bad. Yeah, I can do it. Now you that would be harder. A plane and then a train ride. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The train ride to Chicago from here is like a it's like 4 hours total. So that's a train ride. You could drive there in like 3 1/2 because the trains have to stop, make stops and whatnot. But yeah, so that's how that's how close to Chicago I am.

But yeah, so you're even closer. So that's kind of that is doable. So what you need to do is start inviting all your gamer friends to come and spend weekends. And. Be like we can go to. Caucaso and. Play Caucaso. I want to, as I post in English, most of the people that I'm talking to are in the UK or America, not so much in in France. And I think that's one of the little efforts that I need to make to try to reach out to French people. So I agree with that.

Do you have have you formulate any plans for reaching out to a more French audience? I can translate my content. That would help and I did think about doing that. But I do, I do talk to French people. I'm more reaching out and like talking to them in French rather than having them come to me, right? To nurture the board game community, I need to do that. Yes, that's exactly what you need to do.

Would you consider like starting like a a different account on your social media that's exclusively in French for a French audience? I I could do that, yeah, because I did not want to mix it. I I know game Kirk Kalian. Do you know Game Changer by Kalian? She's posting both French and English, and I love the way that she does it, but I did not want to do that myself. I wanted it to be more accessible to English.

But I could consider Yeah putting Perfect Gamer translating Perfect Gamer into French. You could definitely do that. I what I would say is if you decide to do it, it's just, it's not not be careful because I managed 2 accounts too. Obviously there's the Cajun Gamer when I started, but then when Gareth and I got together and created Meatball to Meatball. So there's like these two accounts that I'm running and they're both board game accounts.

So sometimes I'm posting on Cajun Gamer and I'm like, you know, you really should approach it on evil and Meatball, right? There's yeah. You know, and so I'm, I'm in that debate right now whether or not to like abandon one because I want to get, I want to draw more people to the show. I don't really care about the Cajun gamer. And the longer I'm the longer I'm living here in Illinois and I'm further away from my life in Louisiana, the less that I

identify as the Cajun gamer. I'm like, you know, now when I introduce myself to people at conventions. I'm like. People from people to people, yeah, you know, I've got business cards and stuff like that. And it's like I've never made a logo for Cajun gamer. It's always been. But I mean, people know me as the Cajun Gamer, but I don't, I don't know who that is anymore in terms of identity. Right. So, yeah, yeah. There you go. So.

You need to reach. Out to the you need to reach out to the build a French community and maybe. I'll do it for you. Yes, you and that association club that you were talking about, you could make like Bordeaux Con and there could be a big convention in Bordeaux. See if I can make it bigger than the one that exists. Yes. Started by Cooper Gamer, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, with cats. Hey, ow, absolutely like you got to you got to have a cat featured in the logo when you get there.

That's got to be. I will. Absolutely, absolutely. So it's really just this has been fun. Thank you so much for agreeing to be on. The show. Thank you. Thank you, PJ. So tell everyone who's listening or watching where they can find you currently on all your social media platforms. You can find me on Instagram at Perfect Gamer. So it's per PURR per and then perfect gamer. Yep, and I'm just by Instagram with perfect Gamer at the moment. OK. So that's that's your only platform, right?

Now at the moment I did open a Tumblr but I'm I'm just trying to see what works for me and at the moment it's Instagram. OK. Yeah, that's great. Well, guys, thanks again for listening. Yeah, what can I say? I mean, if you're ready to move abroad, there are friends in South France that can set you up with some gamers. So, you know, if that's if that's something you're thinking about, it's like, I got to go now. I didn't realize how close to

Carcassonne you were. And I'm like, oh, a bucket list item. Yeah. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening, guys. As always, please like and subscribe to the YouTube channel. We want to get to 100 by October when we hit our one year anniversary on YouTube. We'll see what's coming. We're in the middle of con season, so there's a lot of content coming. Now that I'm I'm I'm like 99%. I'm still fighting a cough every now and then, but almost there. So hit that like and subscribe.

Please place comments either on Spotify or YouTube or wherever you listen. You know, I can see them. I try to respond right away. And yeah, make sure to share and get the word out so that people watch the show and we can build a community and unite players around the world. So be kind to each other and keep playing games. Thanks. Thanks again.