The Medieval Archives Podcast Episode. 84. Welcome back to the Medieval Archives podcast, the podcast for medieval news history and entertainment. I'm your host, Gary, a.k.a. the Archivist. In today's episode, we are going to discuss the medieval night and we have a special guest, Christopher Gravett. Now, Chris is a former senior curator at the Royal Armouries at the Tower of London, and he's also served as a historical advisor on numerous TV shows and movies.
During our talk, he shares some fascinating behind the scenes moments from those movies and reveals how much TV and movie producers actually listened to the historical advisors. Even comedian and medieval historian Terry Jones asked Chris for advice when writing his books. And the majority of our conversation revolves around Chris's new book titled The Medieval Night, Available now. And we discuss all things knights with their training, weapons, armor and a whole lot
more. If you have questions or comments or if you have a topic you're dying to hear on the show, send them over to podcast at medieval archives dot com or leave us a message on the voicemail line. 7207221066. The show notes for this lesson are at medieval archives dot com slash 84. Okay, let's get into the talk with Chris and learn more about the medieval knights. Today we're joined by special guest Christopher Gravett. Chris is the former curator at the Royal Armouries at the Tower of
London. He's been a history advisor on TV and movies and he's written several books on medieval warfare, medieval castles and medieval knights. Chris, welcome to the show and thanks for being here.
My pleasure.
So let's first start out with your background. What what got you into medieval knights? What got you interested in medieval history in general?
Yeah, I think possibly because my mother was interested in history. So it was in this period she was interested in the Tudors and Stuarts, the Victorians. I remember when I was looking at the history Victoria History book at school was one of those children's books and it had a picture of a medieval all the equipment going on. Fascinating. Most of the teacher, come on, come on, write a little history on it, which was a bit unusual for I think it was about ten years of
what was a rebel guide. So it obviously was sort of interesting overnight. And in 1966, when I was about 15, they had the big 900 fund obviously for the sacrifice things in the conquest and 300 or the de facto where we actually are going to price firms. I went to a parents rally, had really celebrations. I heard jousting, which was pretty rare, actually. So I think it must be what Hirst and the re-enactments of the Battle was. This is in the days when we
didn't really have all of these re-enactments. I was already getting quite interested in that period and especially nice on nine, I think, for this captive market really beginning to hit TV programmes and the radio programme. And so the whole thing drew me and I think from then on, not just the writing side, mostly writing articles for motoring magazines, trying to model soldiers, you know, what people do, and just went down the history route and then.
We went to university and then you did you get a job at the Royal Armouries right away or was that later on?
I started off in the British Museum in fact erm which is really interesting. I mean you obviously you, you're allowed to get your hands on some very, very important things like the various chess pieces in Rome, in the parts are extremely interesting to anyone who likes very nice little military pieces, including the little pieces passing their rooms. Erm and I had a beautiful prior to 15th century going to where I, which was just carried in tournament where a lot of resilience leads
the periods along with the scroll sign. Good luck or you will get, you know, which is the captive Arctic Circle. And although it was really interesting there was a lot of medieval material which was, it was magnificent, magnificent stuff. It was more my interest. So yes, I eventually saw the post of the Roman armories and transferred across. Eventually lucky enough to get a place and went off and became eventually senior curator.
So for those who don't know, could you tell us a little bit what the Royal Armouries are and then as the curator, what your duties and responsibilities were?
Yes, the Royal Arms was an institution that was at that time it was in the Tower of London, which I heard most people who heard about, you know, did not get it right. And that over displays in the tower. And I was one of the curators. Now, since springs displays and I have a major museum up in the north and I also went down to the south coast to at that time we had all the displays there and what kind
of curator. And the Tate is really I mean, first of all, I see regard after the material, you know, the conservation officer, you know, looking after it in that sense. But you you have to look at the exhibits, show it off to the public discussion exhibitions. If you have to use force, you have to take visitors around. You have to show people the reserve collections in your home because you can't put everything on display. So you have to bring people who just want to go into.
So they all have been in the back rooms of the furniture with serious students and the library staff in the same room you see on the paper about which books are written by the experts. And the people never heard of the expert lectures and good talks at the time inside the tower. So it's quite a varied room. Yeah. And you've got people coming in. You want to make comment. Oh, or from the makers. Okay. And what they do to the real thing. And then you definitely get the chance to
show what they can do and we get some tips and so forth. And very good, really very, very cool.
Sounds like there's a of a bunch of things that you could be doing on a day to day basis that, you know, keeps it interesting without doing the same thing over and over.
Oh yes. Erm.
Are there any famous pieces of armour from, you know, kings throughout the Middle Ages or anything like that in the Royal Armouries.
Lots of pieces, a lot of the medieval material especially in this country were removed of course by Henry VII because he wanted to upgrade his collection to be modern. So most possibly a lot of the equipment from the late into this country and of course is Henry's. So there are a lot of items from Henry post medieval equipment they consider in a sense to back into the collection to a good looking collection for the modern
visitor. Very nice pieces. They're not native to our country, you know, they were the work here in the Middle Ages, if you like, and not a silver and swords and breadcrumbs. And so, yeah. So this is a very good job. It was a it was interesting when you give talks because a lot of the time with any case in regard to talks or lectures to international groups in the UK, talks like that you got to put through such as ornaments or
something like that. You also give talks, ordinary people in history groups who didn't really know anything about the and then you'd sort of be talking to people who really had misconceptions, you know, they thought, All right, good. Tom No, you couldn't get a horse. That's occurring because it's the beginning of the notes and so forth. You have to sort of say, no, they didn't do that because you just because you were not getting on the horses and up not long ago. So it was it was it
was quite a fun thing to do. And then quite often you find people would actually confess because they didn't really have any clue When you started exclaiming, you haven't moved because you grew so close contact with it and you realize how cleverly it was done so that people could move around. And it became an absolutely fascinating subject to teach you what what a great person. What sort of satisfaction out of teaching people what was capable
of doing and how it was made. And I think we got a lot more respect for the of because I think a lot of people sort of blacksmiths put it together because they weren't practising, were highly skilled people that just took off actually to stay in, maintain something incredible. And when you've got something like a very expensive princely something or works of art, you know how to decorate.
It with gold rivets and things like that going through them all. Yeah,
books and decorators and gear. And so when you consider you can always sort of move a little slowly pivoting really, so that you can fit into a need. For example, if you think about if you build a new place and it creates a London, if you find your name, you could I suppose we can because that's the nature of what will happen. So you have two little plates flying over
each other to fill that gap between the joints. And then when you straighten up, we've got to sort and tell them to close for who on earth we thought of when you when you were doing all of them. And then when you when you've been to hold on, you've got the same problem. Of course, the foreman wants to twist this work. It doesn't just need to burn. So you've got to have a special side in order to have to twist the rear over. So the very.
Things you wouldn't think about when you're just putting out a suit of armor.
Yeah. Even the fact that where the joints line, they might shortly overlapped away from the working point so that it wouldn't climb into the joints itself, so the joints would be going away from where it's coming. And then you have little restocks recall maybe where your throat is. Imagine you're wearing the sorts of derivatives on the breastplate so that if a weapon comes, getting disappointed, it's in that letter going over to the right from the current.
Was the armors that you want, the ones that think about all those little things to keep you safe.
And then people will say, well, this is a very heavy you know you through its abilities have use 24 occasions or something like that.
So that's not too bad.
Not too bad. Let's just say great. It's wonder of your body if you're the trained mind. I mean, you've got in the Army today carrying backpacks with you probably way more than that. Certainly World War Two, I think, are kind of.
Yeah, some of those guys jumped in with almost 100 pounds of gear.
Dinner on, which is far worse. And I mean, you know, the worst thing is that you're going to get home. Yeah, that's a problem because you can't get the heat away from your body. I think the most common thing we were asked is what's this practice on the trips? You know, from practice on the side, we're on the run and so on reflected on later on where you know, the was needed. So what is that is in some Victorian writings it's it was a stall for your lungs so that you could actually
renew my contacts in the shop. You didn't go started on your own and it was called the lungs rest and it's not really addressed. Race is actually I race because the average person trying to stop what's going to become your own the number of times you bring the gun and people people that something strange brackets sticking out is kind of funny work sometimes you know reactions are getting in the gun. Yeah and I used to especially after the race moved up to experience most of the
equipment went up to 37. And I studied in London and I became curator of the tapestries. We had not so much the medical equipment. We had to go sit in the yard sometimes, but we still carried on with the educational problem during dressing sessions. And so overnight, because they had a replica 15th century prints armour which just happened to fit no nice more. So we had a few drawbacks around the floor, just more restrictive and become sort of an ornament of it. And they made some more
to fit on the wreath. And then we, we got some leggings and shoes and fitted on the Roman coins so that we could get all this put. All the work should be done with the guns put in so that we could do this all conquering, you know, because it wasn't very quick. We had all the metal paths. I remember we used to do three sessions in the gallery, but nobody's nice with to go through the of things which are not part of it. So we didn't decide to do it, but we used to dress. We would get
ready with the top of some of the hundreds of points. We took about 10 minutes I suppose, to put it on, and then we come out some reflective books of report to them, and then we just talk through dressing things afterwards until it was completely covered, including the sword. All the men were demonstrating, you know, jumping up and down. And if I were lucky or on the ground, get up, because it was very,
very, very cold. You know, this is this is a curator, is that that time was probably going on and trying to look straight or sit at the desk some of the time and walk on the floor and get up. In the full armor.
So a trained night would have no problem doing things like that.
And we used to sometimes dress girls from America. We used to have these interns from America, used to come and do some work at the town. At the end of the time, you used to get a little treat sometimes and be dressed in the elements of some sort. So if you want to get on the ground and see if you can get up and we used to get up and think, okay, I'm one one American, and I came up one time to have them to take to get an ornament. And we said about 10 minutes. He's gotten
improvement, but he's got tanks. And so we took it all off to go. Are you ready? Every time? And it took us 10 minutes to complete the old mill.
I said.
Yeah, you're going to be old and topless with your crew all the time. Who took to Twitter to 10 minutes?
That's not bad at all.
You know, all the stuff that Shakespearean history person when it was two in the morning, whatever I would go myself. So it's a bit early in the day, but we're growing something which is good. But if you did it for a week and frankly it wasn't something I would throw, it is not very really. Yeah.
You're ready to be out of armour.
Have I got some? Yeah.
That's excellent.
We used to get some nice people on it. Met Terry Jones from Monty Python. Monty Python? Yeah.
For being a comedian. He's an excellent comedian, but he's also an excellent historian and really takes the medieval times seriously.
Yeah, Yeah, you're right. He was doing something. He's he's really right now. So he wants to use an image from a book. I checked the book and it wasn't the right period. It was a piece of armour. Yeah. So I'm back in the other room and cannot see always. And he's a.
Nice.
But kind of. Yeah.
For Henry V or movie or. Yeah.
Yeah. So he was doing a play and one of his complaints was to chat about the armour. And it's quite amusing because I said, we're talking about when men were wearing complete war torn words and uncovered the armour. It was all still on shirt. Yeah. So had try to look into funny. Some of you were. So how do you how would you know who was hiding? So if you were the hero of rank, you obviously had to ban all kinds of own subjects. You would have you find that very close story. You
know, it's as if you remember the film. If you go some George Patton is not the coat of arms, but these kinds of troops. And he's galloping very close behind and very similar to some of his version. The other one was during the is was extremely gruesome. So for those who can yeah.
Like it it brings us in to the other topic a few years ago and it's probably about ten or more now. There was a show in America here it was on the Discovery Channel called The Conquerors. And you were one of the historians on that show for at least one episode. I know. How did how does that come about? Did they contact you through your royal armouries?
Because they come to you just through the armory. You spoke to us? I honestly can't remember. I'm pretty sure it must have been through the armories. We did get a lot of TV companies in Ireland from companies we contacted for information or whatever, and then sometimes they'd say, Why are you interested in doing part of the series? Or so? And so we did that particular programme.
That the only one you were a part of, or have you done other TV shows?
Yeah. Or did that one the first History Channel. I did one for the Yesterday channel, which was very similar. They did a very good a series called Instruments of Death, which is nice. And so they started to sort of talk to your group. So that was a good one. I did again, it was on 1066, just happened between when they asked me to do it. Yeah. And, but yeah, we did. I did some Braveheart. I came to the Armouries convention and hoped two or three sessions to very
close to the Roma specialists. We did a lot of work on costumes and armor. Let's say it was 40, 43.
So you give all this expert advice to them and in the end it's a movie that they have to make and you know, they have budget constraints as well. So how much of your advice do they take and what the period looks like and what the armour or the clothing would look like?
It's not because some, some of it they're almost forwards. Court Well, I'm sorry, I can't say a lot more. Yeah.
So it's just whatever they had in the wardrobe at the time.
Yeah. Then I can do this is what you do for her as well, which was nice to send me the list of all the currencies. Oh, so did the gang, Harry the Princess. You know, the level of interest in credit cards is usually so, so, so, so, so violent.
Yeah. Or Marceau.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was a good starting point to do design to dress specifically. Most of us are designing the dress for the Princess of Wales. We didn't choose the heraldry, so it's quite nice. I think I would have liked to have exactly as own design because quite a few of the characters were fictional names, because it can come up with coats of arms and we can lose those. And one of them was a character called On the Bottom of the not so kind of
different with what I would call So with all the girls. Yeah, I'm going to tell really you. It's perfect for me. It was a it was a good film, but obviously it's been criticised by historians who grew very authentic.
Yeah, well for me there's a fine line between an enjoyable movie that's based on the historical period and if you get if you get too accurate, then it becomes a documentary and you don't have, you know, the blockbuster money or the blockbuster actors in it. So it's they want to make a movie that makes money and is, you know, action and and things like that. So it's always a fine line. They got to pick and choose what to be accurate about.
This is it's you know, it's one of those things you you hope to be able to resist is a lot of fun when you're you're involved with it. Of course, you just have to take her to work. Yeah. I think a couple of years of summer, I got involved with Ivanhoe, which was a BBC series, which was I'm pretty sure it's been Simon straight. So at least it's some pretty good.
Yeah, it's available. Yep.
Even more than two series. Yeah, I did. I was actually the historical advisor on that nice trip, you know, that was. How do you get used to. Probably not used to coming on and you're looking very, very happily Richard. You, you're used to talking about 60% of the time. Drones are extremely nice. Yeah. Were very nice. Good was interesting thing to work on moments on the set because it was not how we were left or what
was the jousting, which was fun. Yeah, we got a lot to do. It was, it was, it was supposed to be like 12th century movie using a two parter, which was new paintings of the 15th century or so, really be grammar. And then you got a book which was written, which was historically inaccurate, and you had to make it accurate without getting away from the book. But it was very enjoyable to read both. But it did you enjoy that? You got to meet the actors and, you know, James Coburn people obviously can.
It's been the nineties, 1990s. I found a book, two books by Osprey Publishing. One was Hastings and 66 and one was Medieval Siege Weapons or Warfare, and both were written by you. And that was my introduction to, I guess, you and your books. So what made you want to share your knowledge through books after or probably while you were still working at the Royal Armouries?
The work, I think because I been writing articles that I've seen, books were the to behind the books, you know, these huge books and not necessarily the sounds. And because as you say, your work, you haven't really got time to go instead of the academic works. So let's have a go. So I contacted the editor and went to see and in the end were commissioned to produce the first one, which was the German
made me promise, okay, we need to produce that one. And then the next organ was the children's book, not Atonement, which has been of no interest and no return was brought to bear and works through your back. Yeah, I still do. Then I must say there are a lot better now than they used to be. And then I think we came up to one A probably. Yeah.
So there was a show on the History Channel here a few years back called Full Metal Jousting. Oh, did you watch that?
Yeah, I was very cringed.
Every time you watch those guy is.
Yeah. Yeah. It was very important but it's probably not dissimilar to some but it was interesting to watch what happened. Yeah, they actually tried it for real.
Yeah. Yeah. So those guys, I don't think I think they walked away and they didn't do it again. Most of your books range in variety from different subjects, but a lot of them are on knights and medieval knights. What does it take to become a medieval knight? Do you have to be born as a prince? Do you know nobility, or can anybody become a knight?
I mean. Oh yeah. Originally you were ten when it first started, so I imagine you would have been a soldier with enough money to have at least a horse and some reasonable armor because you're going right back to pre 66. You're into France. But the first couple of encounter when Knight was the recruiting and recruiting
soldiers around them to protect the streets. Right. Right. And these were big men become what we call knights the Kosovars because they got most of the ship out because it was going to come to England with the conquests that did come through the Anglo-Saxon, because that's the words I use for serving and that's what you see these people. So you would you would have to have enough money to bring the least in possession of a horse and decent armor with a sword.
And then that becomes more or less the standard too. So if you can have this amount of reward and of course you might go through the basic right up to the kingdom because the King's Knights as well. But of course in England, that's one aspect. In France you're going to bit more. It's got to always be like perhaps in Germany you could these certain points in history,
all of this. So it's a bit different wherever you go in Europe, Then in England we become a 12th century into the 13th, the 14th century, you can from the start to become sort of I suppose they start to themselves into government positions because they become free persons in the third country enough to become educated. They can become sort
of more elevated in that position. And then once they start to earn money, then let's see, the three landed wealth becomes less important and monetary wealth becomes more important. Can we've got the money behind them and they can acquire not well. So as you start getting to the late of the increase, you're even getting people with peasant background that they can become lots and lots of the products on all parts of the you know, we've got the position, but they're not
actually going out of it. So it's not an easy question, just answer. Yes, right. You were talking sort of being a scholar. It's not to saying, hey, somebody follows the box and then gets more and more.
Yeah. So you just go apply for the job and get accepted.
You get if you look at the temporary record schools and just think before noticing the citizens saying, you know, I know where all these people to, you know, you saw good backgrounds have been trying to become monks because that's not what you read on the real because if just going to be
servants, you come separately. So you go crazy. Of course, as you go up in the ranks of scorns your friends converts as not to becomes expensive and becoming a Nikes and all the equipment becomes more expensive and then the actual process of becoming a monk through the act, not to renew the paraphernalia. So it's very expensive. And then the duties that you have as where we have to continue to show recruits the, you know, the
accounts of your law degree or two thirds of parliament. When that starts up in the 13th century, more have to attend parliament. So you've got all these duties as well and people still think you not to be invited to living blooming year. So they stop talking. And their idea became this of the 13th century. The combatants thought so and we need need the record of the troops not see the troops. So we saw force ignites you know people come in come behind with a certain right. They must be
nice and it's called destructive. Not good. We've got to be made into a not so as a result, of course, we have to become even. We'll be heard in the time of the results of what we do. You know, I think you might not like who's destroying these links suggests the story is concerned by that. It's being put into linked to public religion. And then of course, you know, so so sometimes you get these scores and you go through the Middle
Ages, you never become knights.And the score becomes of whether an honourable ranking. So when you get scores, it's not so a perfectly good fighting me just not not because I don't.
Want I don't want the responsibility.
You know exactly. And then at the end of the Middle Ages and then later on they become the school or what do you think of as the country school? And I think this is probably if you're you do children's books, you find references that ones who were really looked at through cup drawn, you have the place, the school at the moment and that's a specific rank. Yeah. So there are four or 500 years of history. It doesn't stand still. Ye.
In your research, did you ever come across one night that kind of stood out that maybe is your favourite night of all the ones you've seen.
Or was right? William Marshall Yeah, because he was such, such a turn to come from with the landless youngest son River winding up his route into the ground is proved a pretty great achievement. You must agree. Yeah.
He's got his. Hi whole biography is amazing. That's the way he started out and the way he finished up. He served four or five kings and then.
And the stories going on. I mean, there's, you know, without without the biography, there is some very disquieting mixture. Right over the course of the early tournament because he attended so many children's records, a lot of his early money from ransoms from the tournament. So you get some of these these nice stories and you realize that chivalry is not what we think it's all about to, you know, having dinner in the during the tournament, your prize was one of the knights
from the opposing side. Is this going on for some places like or just runs out holes in me and gives into his dinner companions and says here you are. Your girl is a girl who's broken. Then another time some of these these some singing in front of the ladies, waiting for the opposing team to come out. Because this is in the case of the Greek group. Back to them. You know, it seems hard to recall the jousting niceties. The Greeks started to come on loan and this John gruesome
minstrel makes up a song. Vines is more forgiving. A good horse thief is the thing. The opponent starts to appear more just jumps on his horse and knocks one of his or gets to the mounts and brings in and gives into the minstrelsy. So, you know, the process of this is really through the good stuff. So he's obviously good, nice, if you know what I mean. In that sense,
it was vulnerable in that sense in the eyes of period. But, you know, I think it's very similar to some of the things he's done, but it starts with going up from the night and is perfectly acceptable for many who takes the money. He goes off to further to 40 and gets captured as a young man. And Rebecca taking ransoms and brings him into the attention of the second.
And then he's given the young King Henry for some college. And of course, he took some mental illness and he suffers at the foot of the counter from his home, uses this trick of hanging back the rebels 40 times and then rushing into a Christian school as he tries to make it that they're not really taking part at all within the young group or his group. And then he rushes in and takes it like a prisoner, which I think is not very sport and grisly in Scotland.
But yeah, some of the courses like it goes off when the young king goes to the holy games, for the young King's wish comes back Henry to King Henry as a symbol gives him the address of order of his ability to burn your daughter, and then Henry dies. Richard The whole revolt takes him on through something opposing because it come against him just as where your son lives the whole time because you're such a warm person. And then the
third is just great. It's all learned from that. Marriage eventually comes, and because of the marriage there is that also he gets the violence of his own family, becomes King's moral issue because of his brother. So there's an incredibly well. And then, of course, Richard dies, as you said, Remember Queen John comes and the queen negotiates with the barons within the realm. And then, of course, John dies, then to defeats the rebels and
the French are listened to, the house pushes them out. So these regions under the third region, tycoon Henry becomes a tenant for 12 months and then goes in the temperature of the water. And I love your life. Written about some time.
He did a lot of tournaments and you know, nowadays we see in kind of like about full metal jousting. The tournaments we see now are like these just high octane, high energy lances exploding and things like that. Was that what a medieval tournament was like or what what did a medieval tournament look like.
When when they started? I mean, we've we've touched on pretty much women brutally starts to pick battles over morals of countries of the good luck was in a few of them in America we still have these things on cruise for cruise the coping mechanism themes of love is warmth. Yeah might be set over specific areas of crime. Two teams of knights careering around with foot soldiers and fatalities. So
weapons are the really highly dangerous stuff. They were starting to be a bit more controlled, but this is in the 12th century. We started being more controlled and you start to see people individually joust with Francis, the great practice with and this is what we started. Oh, that's really good for Batman. And of course you could get ransom. So it was great getting rich and finding a monster. He wanted to lord to tournament because this is where people come into.
It was good. If you could fight singing, you could show his world from the beginning because your friends without being interfered with for work angles and risk became increasingly popular. Then people started using guns, Nazis, locomotives fitted with these chromed coronet crown points which spread through central point. So it was it's of course, of course the still dangerous. So very dangerous, very low barrier.
It's all of still young from as I say. So if you have a powerful horse you can actually write down pretty much if you weren't careful. Kings used to abandon criminals because they feared that these are great places for people to come together. If we wanted to properly groom some of them to start with or didn't like them because they they said it took people away from where they wanted them to go in their own vehicles and disappear. Not
at all, but very, very soon came around. And then you start to realize you're going to longer. These things can be very useful. First in your cosecant cycle, you can make your world can't hold that spectacle and they do become very, very vibration to this. They become more and more spectacular. You get these displays of people coming dressed in France in costumes, and you know, they were them very well. It even started in the tournament, not in the back
of the hands. Announce the Lord is on the field is, my God, these are wearing bras and rampant. You know, girls raped you know, these things sort of take off in a big way and you get people wearing all sorts of gifts up erm know costumes and such. Erm you can sometimes actually sort out varieties and rules being set up so that you run so many runs of three or five equivalents that they might be required to do. So.
The first was committed to judges, marshals in the this. So it's coming heads to that much more with rules and regulations. I think these programs and you might do this in your courses in respect your go lavish arrangements that you would sort of go out the mounts in these erm spectacles is going to take place in a certain place at a certain time, like about by chance maybe two or three, three
one 6 seconds. So it's like a ticket to come to this. So the sacrifice place the certain time, some of the things are what we call round tables with the bicycle can now offer from the Windsor. I think I found great archaeological remains. Round table three re-enact not just the chance to decrease the cycle will resume present interest. There's lots of round table reasons I with the help of the court, has dome holding the panels where woman would hold a piece of ground against all
comers and markets. If you truly want the function in the course of the shepherdess we took the shepherdess with a flock of sheep with became, you know, to be dressed up and the good nights, the children's elves and goodness knows, look all sorts of fancy items. Come on. So it was, it was all done for real extremes for this as time went on, Burgundy was a great place for it, which included all of our countries birds, foxes. We come from the Moroccan places. It was it was quite spectacular.
And sounds like it evolved into kind of more of a like I say, a spectacular show, you know, an entertainment for everybody to enjoy.
Yeah, it was it was it was still dangerous. I mean, the very turn to the 15th century, it was so possible for you to just sit out in the tunnels with show weapons if you wanted to show your skill or bravery. Yeah, you could even joust sieges, sieges with or, you know, the tests that we could go to a local person just on the cruise because we made some. So you could, you could still joust with assault weapons or drunk. And so then you could still just in your confusion,
have to always joust with the barrier. You can walk now I still have to. Agree to the kind of rumbling the group from. There that was still part of the tournament. So this was all part of the whole spectacle, you know, jousting and various types of the Germans came up with lots of different courses, especially the 15th century. Maximilian had lots of different forms for different sorts of courses, some of them with exploding shields on screen.
With the danger that's involved in the tournament, are there any recorded deaths of high ranking nobles that may have changed the course of history with them dying in a tournament?
You know, some of them did. Coming from one of the schools sons was about on Geoffrey's front. 300 was near the castle going out to the period and was great, very king. So from version splinters from this is this is pre-school this is where the polka dots with the splinters I'll call it dangerous of course when the chances are very went into the hermits and they were really worried. Luckily some of them got to go
under the second the cross was killed in the tournament. Part of the accident that the Romans again saw the through the guns could still be very, very dangerous.
I can't imagine what the knight who ends up accidentally killing a king in a tournament. What's the repercussion? First the guilt and then, you know, is everyone out after her?
Yeah.
So besides tournaments, were they able to use their training and keep it honed? What did their training look like as they became a knight? Was it a lot of, you know, sword work? Was it a lot of combat sparring, things like that? Or how did train to become a I guess, a better knight or Knight?
Yes. I mean, this is the is training with weapons to build up their muscles, really, and to get used to it. So they were trained double get used to the point where the power which is near post would track hacking your nerves like a train against other schools or was trying against not not second gear for the queen to probably see these really basic reconstructions which you know I could no longer be just a place for her where she can swing or pivoting. What were the vital organs which you
control and stroke from those back to the lungs. You can from one another, not on foot with the shield. If you're going the lungs trying, looking for his food and you would go as a scorer, you would actually have to come to your right to back to the old tournament and you have to put in after the person who was injured. You have to get used to being in danger because you could do so much longer, you know, So.
They got on the job training.
You know, it wasn't just a courtyard piece. Please, time to do something. You got to go on the hunt within you. That's a if you're planning on what sort of opportunity you might have to dress in, you have to. It's like you got to learn how to on properly 60 to 30. So you tactically then have to come up to you. And it was if the question the community believe in the name was coming from the cave because of the moment or things like that. So it was, you know, so go down the scale, the school as a
code. Tell you what it is. I mean, this is something you couldn't. And you were skilled in doing this in front of your door. And it was all part of learning the duty in the minds of your rank.
So it's more than just combat and swordplay. It's all the court etiquette and this that go into to be in the night.
I think, you know, we're talking about sort of the ordeals of Martin period when we were talking about the Grecian mark Suffolk in the 12th century, sort of the coast is this kind of like William the Conqueror, because, you know, we're talking about the big scope of the period.
They evolved a lot. But in the 300 year period.
Yes, because we don't we don't really talk about chivalry as we understand this until really the 12th century, I suppose, at the earliest. Probably not to the later part of the 20th century.
So we always know that a knight carries a sword. It's kind of their symbolic weapon. What other weapons would they carry into battle or just train with?
Certainly the sword, obviously a double edged sword with the more pointed as you get more and more current to all that, because it's useful for thrusting into the joints, because if you try and cut the grass, it's just going to slide or something more sharp or shock would point to those. So and so your lances, if you're so nice, is because lace is a useful percussion where they would break into your normal
career or your bones very modern, very like. And because mode is flexible, this is really the reason that people have a shield. You could pretty big shield to protect yourself, which always amuses me in some films where people wearing my shields being dangled away so somewhere will work the sword heroically. I think this was choreographed. I think if you were in a real room, move back to the country. Yeah, that's a nice reading of Sword
even. And it didn't cut through the mail because nobody's is going to look straight into your body if you're going to sit and interact with the world in the European continent. Looking to the Atkinson, you know, it's got to do serious damage, which is why this sort of right or wrong, because it's solid protection as a sphere. And once you focus on the protection of the front, you don't need the shield. That's the reason you really don't have
a shield. Sometimes the whole stack breaks for protection. So if you when you're not dressed with something where you got a shock of about 60 knows about crazy screen, if you haven't got the suit on, then you can use other weapons. So you can go the reverse or you can use it against Plato, because even if it doesn't come through internally, it can bend currents. And if we get function properly, that can lead to somebody from
moving your body properly. Then you go back not from being hit on my head hurt, but I basically feel the helmet on could start off initially for them to get a second blow. Well, you really you've got access depending on what period we're talking about. Short axes for use on horseback, longer hind legs, as if you're on a cruise. And of course, once you don't use the shield, you've
got two heads, right. So now you can use weapons Polacks complex, which is I'm not saying parallax, it's like Kovac's because it is cold from the pole crank the word for head, which is called pole Axe swinging burns, which is of course where Hope, which is very similar, doing swinging burns. And these can deliver incredibly powerful burns. Amazing. You've got some food for in tonight's photons combats
against the Nazis. They often use a in combat you'll see they use your location see and turn your classical person who yeah.
They look fancy.
And you can really quite dangerous because if you're not careful swing rather yeah I think sometimes in the beginning of the time these things we tend to see that very often in various groups because I you know, I find quite often the place weapons where they have caused all colleagues who look back all the time. I come from functional. So I'm always a bit wary of these ones not and.
And even one of the key pieces of equipment for the night is his horse. Was there a certain type of horse that they looked for? I mean, you obviously need something that can carry weight in this fast. So was there a specific breed that they looked at.
In the were very, very used to ride over the course of the course because it was especially great for the orchestra, which was the other word for it was pretty close. It was to do with the right hand side, the right word comes from the motor. He means is because it was like on the right or not or what you could wants Congress to hear. But these were the the top breed horses used for the Tomlinson walker because they were specially great
rider but also to be nimble. They're also trying to kick out some good bones. So you know, the last lap of the hooves. So yeah, but they were very colorful. So we think of because the natural elements of Survive horse always start with a full on for the rest of the competitions so we wouldn't show our hooves. We've got more tools to do. I think I just worked with Hunter more than
Hunter Breed. So if you think of in that sort of size group, I wonder if he looks more than just is not quite over and we don't know our chances. We're we're, we're not expecting great horses even now. I'm very close. You know, obviously the frequencies are going to the best of the best of my kind of among these special breed horses means.
That you brought up a good point. The horse is kind of a vulnerable piece. And then they they had to armor it because the knight was armored, too. So when did they decide to put armor on a horse?
Surprisingly, wasn't so. But I'm pretty stoked to see the very earliest possible creases. And even that's just really possibly a little bit survival rate in the 13th century. So it's we covered and you can see some definitely parts of Mon which must be pretty good. Yeah. My it isn't as heavy as it's possibly sometimes thought to be because a lot of the water has been like too thick and so it becomes too much, too heavy. You put it all together later, you
go right to the civil rights of the crews. It's heavy when you hold it, when you put it on, can spread out. You know, your shoulders are more aggressive. I think people are surprisingly good, you know, I think good, good. Almost, if I can tomorrow. But so obviously, a horse is a big object. It's very, very hot. So this kind of course is, of course, as good as mine. I don't think it was a hugely common thing to see horses
covered in mud. You didn't read about it, but a lot of them are wearing these comparisons across, the carcasses and possibly they were painted. But even the cloth itself is going to catch things in its homes as well as being very they're not to absorb the sweat of the horse. So certainly in the 12th century, you start to see little bits of comparison. So come to the horse in the 13th century, you start to get full comparisons from hunting to pieces or horses. So you wouldn't you would say you
really seriously stole. You start to see the overhead poking from the 13th century and then it gets frenzied. The horses start to appear more so in the 14th century, the 15th century stones against the concrete homes which are pretty rare because it's a very expensive. Most people tend to have the sacrament of the horses known as the full length and anything at the front of the chest or the most great replica, mostly with
her for the side. Yeah, you'd have to be extremely run off to have a sort of the king's opening.
I got to imagine the horses get weighed down pretty heavily with the knight, the saddle and then all their armor.
I mean, you know, we've worked enormously with endurance. The bomber, which was paraded on the surprise news of hugely heavy use for horses. It's clear you run these pieces off. We work massively, I suppose, through an honourable friend who thought that it's probably a bit like the carriage.
So once they went out on campaign and war started, what was their life like out on campaign? You kind of touched it briefly. What bits of boredom they would call a truce and joust. But was a campaign maybe like an average typical campaign looked like.
Well usually during the months. WINTERS Yeah, you're up to three. Okay. And the hunters so that she was stuck in the siege but wasn't the campaigning season. So it would have to be decent weather to do it. I mean, if you're if you're unfortunate, like a battle thousand, you're going to be around 15th century. You're going to be stuck in this in a blizzard full of tobacco, which is not the best of group. So generally speaking, it's going to be lots of weather.
I mean, most campaigns like Roman came through the Citadel, their whole homes. You didn't fight back because these the horribly unpredictable. If you lost, you could really get a real difficulty in the over including your lord. So the idea was he was going to upset the other person already destroying his crops, hurting the peasants, because that took away his livelihood and it was sucking him in the first round to the back lower because he couldn't protect his despised through his
people. So so that was the easiest way to do it without actually going through yourself too much. Yeah, it was very sporting to come back soon. We could bring them the best way of doing it. It wasn't that profitable for you to to lot. And the best way of doing that was to actually take root. Who turned into something different. And, you know, I think the thing was, I mean, I didn't want people going to churches and things like that. So you could, you know, you could go on campaigns, you could
you could besiege towns and cities. And depending on what order you were going with, wanting to do what. Was what was what was the upshot of this coming home was to go with.
Them. And they had their their squires came out with them. Did they have a support staff?
If you are puritan observer, you know you've got your horse. You're not going to be riding nuns. You got your whole York riding horse to score who? Squires Nonsense. Depending on who you're talking about, you've got very dependent arms and your retinue, which is in your retinue. If you're talking about 15th century riders and breakaway riding horses, you go packhorse. It may be carrying baggage remotely, wagons coming, but securing the on for there's all
this kind of trying to look after your provisions. We've got to find some kind of landmines for people who weren't carrying more.
The logistics have got to be incredible to get all those people you know they have armies of ten 20,000 people. And like you said, you got to have, you know, food and tents and water and, you know, things like that.
Going out, looking for you're going to go from where they're going to the 10th.
Quartermaster stayed busy.
Yeah.
So I put this out to all our listeners and we had a few questions come in and some we've answered. You know, they want to know like the weight of the armour, which I believe you said was about 25 kilos. But one of them that kind of goes to the whole fairy tale of a knight is the knight in shining armor. And so the question was, did knights polish their armor, was it truly shiny, or is that just kind of the myth of the fairy tale?
There it was. Yeah. Yeah. Then you have to keep it pretty hard, right? It's got to be only when it's not in use, it's stored the gone, it's taken free from rust. And you're trust me, if you love seeing people wearing them and after a few hours, you're sweating. And then you take it off. For instance, this one's is going to be polishing. So a rubbing, you get that kind of. Yes. You know, this is great because you got to
get the makeover as well. Of course, if you've been walking towards the conditions or forcing you to order which round you're going to work it all kind of because you want the surface to be smooth and slippery as possible because it's not as thick as people think it is. It's it's tricky in the middle where your heart is going to come around because the top of the where the stones are coming in down the arms and maybe through the sides, Rex is not going to be discreet in the
metal because it's relying on a slippery surface to fight the points of light. So it's just give them time so that this looks so heavy. You got to layer once. Once it comes out, it becomes so good that you can punch through the armour to thicken the curtains and make it. So I think the people said, you
don't need to worry. Most of the people at this time, I'm sure, are the most professional, nice, the most excitable, not so professional soldiers, because the most difficult looks to go with the do of officers for this to actually get to the later 15th century. Normally since the 16th, 17th centuries, people just don't want to wear the all because they're wearing all the two breast lengths on top of the other. In the 16th century warrior, the first puts on quite heavy because they have
to withstand the bullet and you get these proofed. But if you have a C, I have a couple of punched hole holograms in the pits where they bring proof to show that proof against to.
Test them out.
Make sure this recognises a very well this one stopping further. Yeah. Really. You know you're nervous. This is a problem. You know, it doesn't matter how much you pull. It's not sort of all the stuff, you know. So the gradient was trying to produce armor. That's good enough to stop her boots and also good enough to stop the sword in the current. Yeah.
One of the other.
One of your.
Different kind of force. I guess it the the the bullet force and the piercing force. Yeah. Your knights were all through the Middle Ages and that's kind of what we think of a knight is that you know, iconic medieval knights. When did the decline start for knights.
Was probably already starting with the 15th, 15th century. The by the 15th century Britain that started out with a concrete, sturdy wooden, theoretically solid crowns. And theoretically over those 200 those the down of that 1500. Theoretically, yeah. And that was that was that was the next six and about to 90 something like 34 and 24 Knights of Service and others who were
too sick to drink often anymore. Let's have a go. Yeah. So the thought of the circle for the 15th century was used to the case where the five or 10%, the only was probably going through two branches and the rest of the times. I'm not saying that was a lot on that. It's also not for the Knights of the Round because parts of 15th century might be 8 to 1 of them
personally broken, including other ranks. So carrying a bar in the ranks and that one person was not one of the race was made of tomes regret not necessarily knights could be scores could be progression with Holmes. So it was going down because there was
this increase in civil our such as murders occurring. This wasn't the place that often very modern humans the things that came out some kind of interest in work which you know hoping to sort of spur people to come here again, drinks chivalric heroes. They just go looking. They just become more interested in looking after their strengths. And I think by this time, this is
something that professionals do with it. They can go to the wars and the competitors taking over much more quickly, moving swiftly, hand over to kind of.
Move the warfare changed, which kind of.
Folks were coming up. Much more on the continent. And now in England you can get sort of pull information to the loss of this to to go to the right to come to you yourself with the armour against the bullets.
Yeah. Everything they knew and trained for was different on the on the battlefield. So yeah.
You just literally the captain if you were to so yeah I was already into chronic declines into the 16th 16th century and the gentleman is now coming up with the idea of the Renaissance man that's starting to become a sort of well, he was returning to the spa to talk about going to court, not to start by a here on the battlefield. And that's the gentleman, renaissance gentleman. You know, that's the future.
And that's kind of our know today. We still have knights, you know, and it's more of an honorary title.
But there's still this you know, there still is The rank and privilege of some of the issues is only from what we do. You know, as you said, nowadays, it's just because of over movement than it was recognition of service.
So your new book, The Medieval Knight, I have it here. It's it's a fascinating book and it covers through about 300 years or so of, you know, the evolution of the knight. It's half of the the fun of reading this book is the pictures that are included in it. I think if you get the physical book and get the pictures with it of the armor and the swords and some of the old manuscript pictures. So it's really well done in the
pictures. It just helps enunciate what you're explaining and what we're seeing.
I mean, I was always for manuscript specimens. Yeah, especially especially when it's a character. You don't have a lot of surviving almost to corroborate with you. But work out from the manuscripts what's the required for. And that's a fascinating experience here.
So your new book is The Medieval Knight, and it's available now in bookstores and it's definitely available on Amazon. You can get it off of Osprey's website. So I'd like to thank you for being on the show. It was a great time. Thank you. Appreciate it.
P to be here.
I like to think, Kristin, for taking the time to talk to us about medieval knights and his book, The Medieval Knight, and also I think it Osprey publishing for setting up the meeting. Now, as I mentioned at the end, the book is available now and is a must buy for any medievalist. It's a fantastic reference on knights, weapons and armour over a 300 year period. Even writers of historical fiction or fantasy would benefit from this book, and the pictures are amazing and
in full color. This is definitely a book you're going to want to buy the physical copy. If you're looking for a last minute gift for the medievalist in your life, or if you have gift money ready to spend, look no further than The Medieval Knight. By Christopher Gravett. I have links to the book in the show Notes at medieval archives dot com slash A4. Send your comments and questions to podcasts at medieval archives dot com. If you're enjoying the podcast, the easiest way to
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