The World of Music and Film Scores

 Welcome. I am your host Tara Jabari for this episode where I speak with my cousin, who professionally goes by Malakoff Kowalski. A music composer, who also introduced me to a previous guest, Sarah Lisa. Please enjoy are catching up and hearing about his process of creating musical scores for the film projects he has worked on.  .

 Welcome Malov. Kows. Thank you for coming on media and.

Hello. Very happy to be here. It's an overseas call. Can you hear me well?

Yes, I can hear you just fine. Can you tell the listeners where you're recording from

 I'm in Berlin, Germany, the former western part of  the city.  not too far from the wall though. The former wall.  my studio is in the former east. So that's where I am the old continent.

And I'm, uh,  recording from Chicago in the United States. But, full disclosure, two things that I wanna share with our listeners. One is that we know each other, we're cousins,

right?

 and we are going by our professional names, but we know each other from our family names,

is true.

so that's why it's taking me a while to say malov.

You can also just say Kowski is more fun,

oh, Kowalski. Yeah, I

because that's how my artist name came up. They used to call me Kowski when I was a teenage kid. My boys in the band in Hamburg where I grew up,

they thought it was funny to call it Persian boy, call it Persian kid who's called a

yeah.

To call him Kowski. They were a little drunk, whatever, and they thought it was funny.

They were cracking up and it just stayed because it put them in a good mood. So they kept calling me Kowski, and so that's how it became an artist name. And then at some point I added the Malakov

There you go. You're a music composer

Yes.

and you connected me to Sarah Lisa,  a German filmmaker  thank you for that because I got to talk to her and that episode got released earlier and I thought it would be nice to talk to music composers and you are one that has been in the industry for a while and in different,  but also in the constant of Europe.

Cuz you work not just in Germany. Correct.

Well, it's mainly Germany.  it's starting to spread a little bit, but it's basically happening within Germany. Oss, Switzer.

So I wanted to understand how did you get involved in music and then in composing for film or screen-based media?

Well, my mother's a pianist and so I started playing the piano,  at the age of four, I believe. But I was a horrible student and I believe I stopped around. The age of 12 or so, and I  wanted to play the guitar. I wanted to sing. I got away from the classical thing and I loved The Doors and Janice Joplin and Jimmy Hendricks and all that.

And I started a band. And so I got into the whole band songwriting, rock and roll thing. And that stayed for a while  I made a few records and then I met this film director who just passed away. He's called Klaus Le and that's also how I know Sarah Lisa cuz she used to make movies with him as an actress.

And he listened to one of my rock and roll pieces and really like, And made a music video for it. It's called , which,  translates as other people. That was a German pro rock crowd, rock psychedelic type thing with German lyrics. So he made a video and then I sent him a piece of music that was around the age of 30.

I.  a piece of piano music that I had recorded with,  a musician from New York, Haan, Rubenstein or Rubenstein, that I was working with at that time. this director, he loved this piano piece because  it was something that really put him in a certain mood that just excited him, 

Hm.

And I, on the other hand, didn't know what to do with the piece because it was just a piece of solo piano music, very calm, something like a little intra meo or like a little prelude type thing. Classical music basically. And I didn't really, didn't know what to do with it, but I met this directive, so I thought could be something for a movie.

And he loved it so much that he put it in. Movie that he was editing at that time, which was called, dancing with Devils, and the edit was pretty much done already. He, it was one or two days before the final mastering, so that's not really a stage in which you still change things. You know, that's pretty much done at that point.

But he took that piece and he put it in the movie four or five times. Because it was so important and so special to him. And so that's how I got into the movie thing. After that, we made more movies and he asked me to do more score music actually for him and  until his death recently, I think we made about 10 or 12 movies.

I lost track, but that's how I got into that. he saw music in me, or he saw an artist in me that at that time I hadn't been, and I also hadn't seen in myself. So I got away from the songwriting thing. I got away from the regular ways of making music, writing songs with an intro and a verse, and a chorus and a verse, and a chorus and a seat part.

3, 4, 5 minute songs. And I got into the discipline of,  miniatures. So for a movie, you can just compose a 32nd piece or a one minute piece that doesn't really have a structure, but it's got some magic. And that was really,  that was really inspiring. It was relief from this whole pop. And mainstream songwriting world, it's not about creating a piece that's gonna run in the radio.

It's about creating a little theme, a little something. I started whistling, I started playing the guitar. I started playing the accordion, the harmonica,  and everything was just really loose. It was not about getting something. Tight, which is what you try to do in the pop world. It was about making it all loose. It was always meant to sound like a drunk sailor who's just walking back home from a tavern,  and going back to his boat. So everything had to be a little une. he, he loved a rough sound. He loved the hiss on my recordings, and that was all great. That was so much, uh, that was speaking to me so much more than anything I had done before.

since I have no background in music, but one of my favorite things to listen to when I'm just wanna. Walk around the neighborhood.  I'll listen to musical scores of films that I really love. One of my favorites is,  the musical score to the film Moonlight when I'm like kind of sad or melancholy.

Um, when

out just a while ago, while

a couple years ago. Yeah, 

Yeah, that was a great score. Love that

it's, it's a beautiful score. And then when I wanna go running, one of my favorite things to listen to is the scores of action films, or action television shows. So the Born Films, the Born Identity, or the Show Alias, I will listen to

 so,  when you were describing about,  with the pop music, you have to have, Two and a half, three minutes, but like a film score.

It's actually shorter. Can you kind of explain that a little bit more? Cuz some of these songs can be, or these musical pieces can be quite a long time, like seven minutes long. So how does that come about?

Well, the thing is that, when you record a piece of film score music,  you might do it just for the scenes, so you might record or you might write a piece that seems like a big thing, longer, bigger thing, almost like a symphony type thing. Um, but in the actual movie, you're just gonna use one minute. So you create something that seems like a bigger thing, but you actually only do maybe a minute because you do it just for the scene

mm.

and then it's just, faded out or cut, whatever happens in the movie. But on the other hand, you also wanna release a score as a record. So sometimes you will either. Record a much longer version for the score, but they're not gonna use it because they only use the first minute or so. But the actual recording, you make it much longer so it can go on a record at some point, or, which happens very often, is that little bite that you record for the movie. Afterwards, you turn into a bigger thing, which you put on a record.

So what you hear.  on a soundtrack record for a movie is not necessarily what you've already heard in the movie. The versions you hear  on a soundtrack album sometimes are much longer, and sometimes they're also the same composition, but a new recording if you listen closely, music like. Henry Mancini's  movie scores for the Pink Panther, for example. They're all released as records, but when you listen to the recording that's being used in the film, the actual edit, they're a bit rougher. They're not the same, performances. The mix is different. And then you listen to the record.

It's the same piece, but it just sounds a little more polished. It's made for a record, so sometimes it's a rerecording. From the same artist with the same orchestra, but it's gonna sound a little different. And  that was in the old days. Now I think we tend to do scores that are being used in the movie and being used on a record at the same time.

But still, the seven minute version that you'll hear on a, soundtrack album is not necessarily happening in the.

Got it.

it. And then sometimes it's actually,  upsetting when you're doing the recording for a movie don't have time because lots of these scores are being produced under severe pressure.

They need something just overnight and, you know, the reasons are sometimes, or, most of the time, You're working under severe stress, so you just wanna get that scene right. And that's why sometimes you'll just do that little bite that you'll actually need in the movie editing, but while you do it, you're upset because you're thinking, while I'm doing this, I should actually do a full version.

Because who knows, maybe they're gonna use it at some other point in another part of the movie, or. When you put out a record, you need a longer version. What are you gonna do with the 32nd thing? But you don't have the time to do it. So sometimes you're stuck with that little bite, 

You also worked in different countries, correct?  You worked with a film starting Alicia F Candor and Eva Green, and that wasn't a German film.

right, it, it was with,  those two and Charlotte, rambling by Lisa Lang Seth.  that was something that occurred a few years ago.  I did two piano pieces for that movie One of the pieces ended up being,  on my record, on my solo record, my first piano is called Euphoria, lobster and Champagne. that's an example for one of these occasions when you do something for a scene and it ends up turning into something,  else. I believe they didn't use that piece in the movie and I did another piece, but then this thing happened to be something for a solo record.

what I started making in film scores had a very strong effect on my records after that. On my solo records, the first solo record that I made after this transition into movie scores was called Kill Your Babies, and it had the subtitle film score for an unknown picture. So I made a record imagining a movie that didn't exist, and so it had lots of miniatures in it, and I was entirely free because it was declared as a film score. I could basically do what I wanted on that record, which was,  very liberating. And after that,  I made a record called I Love You, which also contained some pieces that I had done for movies originally.

And then either they had been used or they hadn't, I don't know. Like you lose track  what's from where, but. records always inspire the scores and the scores always inspire the records, so it's always going back and forth. And then there's also theater scores that I make. So it's these three things.

It's my solo records, the film scores, and the theater, scores. And all three always work in this triangle. So sometimes a film score that had never been used ends up in a theater play. And then something I do in a theater play I might also use on a solo record. I believe the opening of the record I Love You was something I made for a piece called Assassinate Assange, where Angela Richter German Theater Director.

Had,  interviewed Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London many times, and from those transcriptions of the interview, she,  created a theater play and I made the score for that. And something I made for that ended up being the opening for my record called I Love You. And so it's always going back and forth. And frankly, I sometimes even forget what's from what, but it doesn't really matter cuz it's all my music so I can kind of do what I want with it. But it's just funny when you listen to it. my solo records are almost like diaries.

Mm-hmm.

They always,  remind me of certain periods. They have titles that work like diary entries.

So I'll listen to a record and I'll know, oh, that was that. This is what happened then.  I don't write diaries, so my records have that purpose for me.

 you also work sometimes in Los Angeles, assuming the United States. Have you seen a difference between,  working with these different countries when it comes to music?

Well, every music that you write and record belongs somewhere. So,  this record Kill your Babies from 2012 sounds very European to me. It sounds like Berlin. It sounds like Paris. might even. A bit Russian, it might sound,  a little Middle Eastern. And I remember I, I took it with me to LA when I was working there for a while and I realized this record doesn't really work in LA when I'm in la this music doesn't really work for me.

And then while I was there,  I started working on this record called I Love. Which sounds very much like LA and it also started with actually a piece that I made for a movie called, what was it? Forgot the name, but it was also for this director, Claus Leko. And he loved the idea that I was in LA and he said, can't you just record something that sounds like la?

 I was there with a band called sp. Very German name, electro pop band, and we had this beautiful house that they had rented and we were working on their record. At the same time. I was working on my own things and I started making music that sounded very much like LA and it sounded like a movie in color actually. Whereas Kell, your Babies was a black and white movies from the sixties.  with the record that has scratches and everything, and then I Love you really sounded like blue and purple and the sunset and the desert and the palms, rich colors. You know, so every city and every country has its own sound.

Then I made a piano record,  called My First Piano, which I,  recorded in Berlin, and it sounds very much like Berlin. But I took it to New York to mix it with Haan Rubenstein that I just mentioned earlier. And so that record to me has this whole New York feel to it.

mm.

 it has a very rich sound.

 it's got this old American analog sound, so every country and every city. Influence the way you receive your own music and that makes you do things and that makes you leave out things.  my newest record that came out is called Piano Aphorisms. That's something that happened entirely in Berlin.

I wrote it there, recorded it there, and it was mixed and mastered there. I guess it sounds pretty German, that record. It does sound very German, that record. It's just, it's a piano sonata. Very serious,  complicated music. I would say  I, I really went away from the miniatures, so over the course of time, I made more records that sounded like film scores, and I made more film scores that actually sounded like records. So that's also something  that happens with what I do here. Film directors or theater directors, like my things because they also sound like actual records. They sound like music that you will know from a record. So I don't really do those,  stereotype score things that people do who are just constantly doing one more movie after the other.  as a film composer who's just constantly doing one score after the other, start using some tricks here and there cheap tricks. You'll start working with cliches and you'll also just do things that people want from you. With me, if a director has the guts to ask me to do a score for. It means they know my solo music from my records and they know that I'm a little different, that I don't really compromise that much. I'm very strict in my,  genre rules. There's a lot of things that I absolutely do not do that I strongly,  condemn artistic things, you know,  style. Sound,  writing attitude.

There's a lot of things that, that I strongly,  Let's put it mildly, strongly dislike, very mildly.  and so if a director comes to me and wants me to do a score, they know that it's gonna be something else. And the regular stuff I'm also not capable to do just anything you want. You buy Kowski for a score, you get kowski. And so they kind of like that in their movies that their scores sound like a record. And when I do a record, people who talk about them journalists or also listeners, they'll. It's so cinematic what you do in your solo music, and so it's always going back and forth and one's good for the other. And when I do one, I always have a little vacation from the other, which is good because, I, I tend to be very strict with these things, and so a little vacation for myself is always very welcome.

Yeah.  do you have any words of advice for filmmakers, whether it be at the director, a producer and stuff, but you kind of answered it. When they come to you, they know your work and that you have these rules for yourself.

Well, not everybody's, capable of. Applying those rules and not everybody is necessarily a solo artist at the same time.

Mm-hmm.

So,  when I did my first, movie scores and theater scores, I had already released two records as an independent artist. So there was already something there. Some people just start out without being someone. They're just workhorses who just get into it and just do one movie after the other and it's just what they've been building up for years, that's a different situation.

So you can't really apply my rules to everyone else

Yeah.

cuz I'm not the typical, career guy and  what I can recommend is just something that always apply. In my eyes or in my ears,

Yeah, I was just thinking that.

to, to put a little better.  I always believe  in, in something  that I can buy. If someone shows me a movie with dialogues that I don't buy, Because either they're written badly or played badly or what, if it's just not right, I'll have a very hard time.

And I also try to make music, whether it's a score or a record that I'm gonna buy myself. I have to believe what I'm doing there.  I think That's a good rule or like a good, if you do that, you're always gonna be more or less. Okay. And I think it's both good for the commercial aspects because if you do something that's not really believable, that's not, that's, that doesn't have a true essence, I also don't really think.

It's gonna be commercially successful unless you're doing something that is just entirely, you know,  if you're into doing trash, of course there's other rules. But let's say we're talking about more or less serious music with good taste  that kind of stuff, then I believe is good for the commercial, perspectives. Of your work, but most of all is good for you as an artist. If you do things that you don't believe yourself, you're gonna fail at some point because you're just surrounded with lies. so many artists that I know,   sadly, or let's say a few anyways, you meet them, you know, you run into them.

Hmm

They don't really listen to their own music. They don't really like what they do. And I always wonder why, if you have the possibility to release records, to make scores, to play concerts, why don't you do something that you actually like?

 Why don't you use that privilege and do something that's good? And fortunately, I know a lot of artists who actually do like what they. Those I know as well. They're the majority. And they also do other things. they're writers, directors of course, or visual artists, dancers. Lots of people who, who really. Believe what they do.  they do something that they actually mean and by, and those are the artists that survive over the course of time. there's a documentary about Leonard Cohen where someone filmed him during  a European tour in the seven. It was just a release a few years ago.

Cause Leonard Cohen didn't want it to be out. But then at some point, I think he allowed it. And so it came out very late and the guy asks him backstage, what's the meaning of success? And he thinks about it takes a little smoke and he says, survival. And I think what he means, At least in my eyes, what he means is you release something, you write something and you feel like doing something else.

Again, you're,  you feel like there's more to say and therefore you survive as an artist. Of course you also gotta pay your bills and you gotta write some invoices,

Yeah.

uh, that comes with the good stuff that you make.

why?

survival is, is probably the only good meaning of success because everything else comes and goes.  commercial success. You might have a number one out and the next record just fails miserably. You might do a great movie. and the next one is just gonna be, critically acclaim, but no one's gonna watch it. These things happen sometimes you just get good reviews  and critics love what you write.

I mean, what you've done. They write great things. But you don't really like it yourself. Like this is, like all these things. They're all very relative and they're all very much in the moment and you can't really influence them too much. But finishing something and then waking up the next day and thinking, there's more to say. That's the real gold. that's  when you know. You're gonna survive. You're gonna be doing this for a while. Hopefully. If you just

Yeah.

wanting more, you gotta want something. That's my advice here. You gotta want something.

The originally you were saying you know, you as a listener, like think of, what would you want to

Oh yeah, of course, I, I would want  to produce music that I would like to listen to myself if I was a director  probably at at strive for movies that I wanna watch myself write things that I wanna read myself. It's probably the most important thing.

Yeah. Well, thank you Kowalski. Um, do you want to share with listeners  anything, um, links or albums or anything like that?

 well if you wanna listen to something, it's, there's a lot of stuff on Spotify and Apple Music everywhere. All my records are there. Some of the scores are there. Um, and there's a website called malov kowski.de, and that'll basically take you everywhere.

It's got some music there. It's got some videos there.  some of the scores that have not been released as records are. Little band camp players, so you can stream it there. I guess the website is a good,  source even though most of this stuff is in German, but it has a link that says Music

So just go for the music and uh, skip through the players and listen to some music so you'll know what we're actually talking about. so the listeners will know if they actually. And what I put out there, because ultimately it's all fine and good if you believe it yourself, but of course you do it for the listeners.

Mm-hmm.

believe in these artists who say I do everything just for myself. You need the audience. You need a little bit of applause. I mean, maybe you don't need stadiums, but you do need. A little bit of applause, a little bit of recognition, a little bit of a claim, you know, so yeah, please go. Please go there, listen to it and, um, and enjoy.

well thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for introducing us to Sarah Lisa's work and yeah, thank.

Thank you. Bye bye.