Music Videos: A Duet of Sights and Sound

Thank you for joining us. I'm your host for this episode, Candace Block, and today we're gonna learn more about the world of music videos.

Our guest this week is Erica Silverman, a filmmaker with experience in nearly all formats, and most importantly for this conversation, a ton of experience directing music videos. She's worked with artists such as Leon Bridges, Lizzo, AVR Levine, and Greg Alman to name a few, and combined her work has racked up over 500 million views.

Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks so much for having me.    So . Personally, I love hearing some backstory before we dive into a subject and it helps lay a little foundation as well. So how did you first get into visual storytelling?

I was in college in Louisiana and I was going to business school and I was not loving it, um, , but I basically, uh, It was just kind of random.

I ended up writing this story and I had a DSLR camera,  I was taking portraits of people and, you know, graduation pictures, whatever I could for money kind of thing. And, um, I decided to write this story and casted my neighbor at the time and she was in her seven. To be the lead in this story and I just kind of YouTubed how to do everything, like how to shoot and how to edit, and, uh, ended up making this short film and it actually.

did pretty well. Um, I didn't think it would do anything. I, it, you know, it, but it ended up getting into a bunch of festivals and it actually got distributed. Um, and so that was kind of just, I didn't grow up around artists or anything, so I didn't realize this was even a thing you could do.  so that's why I kinda discovered it a little later on in life.

Uh, but after that, I, I felt like it was kind of a, you know, validation. This is something I love and I could actually do it. So then I started to just do commercials for the college, and I was just kind of hooked. I just kept making shorts. And I eventually moved to Austin and that's when I started doing music videos 

Oh, well, that, I guess that answers the, when you first did music videos. Um, so how, how long have you been, like how many years have you been doing them?

uh, music videos or just film in general?

the music video is more specifically.

Music videos probably. Hmm. Uh, maybe like six years.

Oh, okay.

Mm-hmm.

Nice. Um, I love that you also got into this sort, sort of organically and it's, it's true of all of the creative arts. It's nice that you just felt the need to, to do it and. Also kudos to, to YouTube for providing

Oh my God. I know. No

learned many things that way too. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing a lot of, A lot of times people get intimidated by thinking they need degrees and things and you can do a lot just by doing and figuring it out and there's a lot of free resources, so that's great.

See, you are a success story there. So funny. Anyone listening feels like they can't afford to get into it. Nah. You can do it a lot of ways.

do it, just Google it.

Mm-hmm. . Exactly.

yeah, I always knew that I wanted to be in film somehow, ever since I was a little kid 

I thought I would be an actor though, cuz  I think that that was the only thing I re thought that you could do. Um, so I did a lot of acting as a kid and then as an adult too. And every once in a while I still do it, but that was kind of what I thought I would do and um, it just kind of segued into being more of

well it was an introduction to this world at

Mm-hmm.

Um, so when, when you're working with, um, the different artists for music videos, for example, how often, like how closely are you working with that artist in terms of like storyboarding or planning out the look or feel of a, of a video? 

Well, it's different every time I love when an. Has an idea or a very specific kind of brand and something they have already thought about and cultivated, and then, you know, whether I come up with the idea or we come up with it together, then we really create the whole thing together.

That rarely ever happens. Um, But I really love those opportunities. It's fun. because  this is for them, you know, they've made this record and then now they want a visual for the song. So it is really nice when they have ideas or wanna be involved in it, because otherwise it just becomes my idea and my story.

 but  in the end, it's not, it's for them,  So I, I kind of can get a little, uh, if it's just my idea and I'm kind of doing it on my own,  I can get a little precious with my stuff and then,  in the end, the label or the artist ends up killing all these things that I loved about it.

And so I actually really, really enjoy when, um, when a musical artist. Really involved in making the music video 

But that's interesting that you said it's not as often as you'd like.

No. I mean, at least for me, it's, it's not, it's not often at all. Like I, I met my husband making his video, his music video, and he, the first one we did, honestly, um, It wasn't really, he didn't wanna contribute much , you know, which was fun.

I got to do whatever I wanted. But I think, you know, once we became friends and then partners, um, it became like very much like him and I doing it together. And I've had a few artists that I've worked with that it's been like that where they have a lot.  to say about it, but honestly, a lot of people just are like, You're good at what you do.

You do. You, Thanks,

I mean there's, there's a freedom in that. Uh, and I guess, you know, artists come in all different shapes and sizes and styles. So if someone's a musical artist, they might not have a, you know, a lot of. Uh, passion for the visual side of things and they need it done, but, you know, Yeah. Give it to, give it to the experts that are better at the visuals sometimes.

So  when you're working on a project, are you just listening to the song over and over and over and over and over throughout the, do you get super familiar? Do you get burnt out on the songs ever or

a really great question. Um, yes, you have to, I edit also, and just more recently I started passing.

Uh, some jobs to my friend who's an editor or to a really great editor, but that's really recently, I've always edited everything myself. Um, I love editing.  so yes, especially if you're editing, you hear the song over and over and over and over and over.  and even before you listen to it over and over when you're making the treatments or conceptualizing the idea, you're, I at least I put timestamps of where exactly.

Will be at least that I'm envisioning. So yeah, I listened to the song a million times and um, I used to, when I was like more hungry and excited to just get experience and doing any music video, I would take pretty much any job or any opportunity. But now I have kids and I'm really trying to transition into doing more.

Work and film. So, cuz that's originally why I got into ma, you know, filmmaking and then I got, I, I love making music videos, but it's kind of, it's, everything's a lot of work, you know, music, videos, commercials, and so I just wanna, I'm becoming a lot more selective on the music videos I'm doing. One, I wanna like this song because I have to hear it a million times,  and Yeah.

Whereas back then I would just, even if I didn't like a song, I'd do a music video.

Yeah, well that's a true sign of success, being able to be more selective about

I guess,

 the days of things like MTV videos are long gone. So where are most of these music videos being released and seen?

YouTube, I guess. I've had some music videos on CMT or on tv. Uh, I honestly don't know. I think I'm really wondering what the point of music videos is Lately, I, I've been noticing a, a pull with the labels and artists to do more live performance videos 

Yeah, I mean it's interesting to see what the, what the future is for these cuz people like, you know, obviously in the original days of view music video, it was a whole deal and now it's a lot more YouTube vivo, just like online stuff. But people are also changing their online habits in what they view and how and where they view.

So yeah, it's, it's interesting to see what the future will hold for  for music videos and if they're even gonna last. That's

curious. I'm sure they'll all, I'm sure there are. You know, pop artists or huge artists will always have a need for music videos. Um, but you know, these smaller artists or labels, you know, they're allocating all their money probably to the bigger stars. So like, how much money are they gonna give for these up and coming artists?

Um, but this reminded me of something interesting, um, about MTV and music videos. Like I'm. 33. And so I grew up where that wasn't a thing. Like

Hmm

uh, my friends who are nine, 10 years older, like that was a huge thing. Everyone was obsessed with watching, you know, music videos. And it's really kind of funny that I got into music videos cuz I never watched them.

um, growing up like that wasn't a thing. Um, I mean, clearly I've, I've seen music videos, but it wasn't like a thing that was in our pop culture at the time. Um, and . Yeah. It's so

Yeah. You, you weren't watching total request live and all

No, it wasn't like a thing. And so, but when I think back to when I was a kid and like for whatever reason we just, we moved all the time.

My mom's a gypsy lady. We were, I feel like, I just remember being on tour basically, like always in a car, always on a greyhound, always traveling and. There was always music playing. And I remember making these movies in my mind just cuz we didn't have iPads,  so I was just constantly doing that and it's so weird cuz it hit me like when I started actually making music videos, like, oh my God, I have been doing this forever,

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean it's uh, I guess it's, if you've always had the drive, it's, it's awesome that you're finally bringing it. And that, that was actually kind of a question that I had, uh, as well. Do you just listen to songs now sometimes and think, Oh, I know how I would wanna do that as a video.

Oh, for sure. I'll listen to a random song and then just something pops up. So that's something. That's kind of interesting . Is I'll,  get asked to write for somebody and sometimes nothing comes up. Like usually what happens, at least for me is I'll listen to it. I don't like to see the lyrics.

Some people, uh, request lyrics, but I don't like to see the lyrics or read them. I just like to listen to the song and see what happens and usually what happens. Is I'll get an image of something and then I'll listen again and it'll elaborate and, and then I'll write down an idea from that image. You know, just something that, it makes me feel a certain way and sometimes I don't get anything and I don't force it.

If I don't get anything after a few listens, I just pass on the opportunity. Cuz I feel like I'm not, I'm not getting anything. I'm not,

you're not gonna serve the project very well if you're not excited about it in any way.

It's not even, it's not even about being excited about it actually. It's like I'm just not, for whatever reason, nothing is coming to me creatively, you know? And, and I don't like to force those things.

It's not a fit. Yeah. For whatever reason.  so also music videos are obviously not the lengthiest final product, but you can still pack a ton of visual elements into them. Um, so what are some of the more like complex ones you've worked on and then some of the simpler, more stripped down ones?

Like do you have examples of some of those?

 Well, one of the most technically challenging ones I actually did, and this was an example of working with. A friend and also someone who's like super involved in the idea, and his name's Ben Godfrey and his music's music names Belabor and. , it was . It's when you watch it, it doesn't look that crazy.

Um, but there was a lot of math involved because we were  doing two images and superimposing images, and the second layer of the image was all a one. So we had to do so much math beforehand on when things would actually happen. During the song and in the background, and I just had never shot anything where it was so technically complicated as far as like doing the math and setup and everything like that.

And, um, I think it turned out awesome. It's really cool. I'm obsessed with his music. Y'all should go check him out. I did a video for co wezel and that had so much jampacked in three minutes or however long that was. It was just like, Location, location cha so much happened because we were basically having to show his last 24 hours before he went to prison or ran away.

Um, and so it was just like we jam packed so much in that three minutes.

 I have editing in my background as well, so I not only can relate to the hearing a song over and over and over thing, but also, uh, sometimes people that aren't in this world think, Oh, well, if it's short, That means it's easier or there's less. And that doesn't always mean that  it often doesn't.

Um, and also you, you have a lot of experience with commercials as well. I mean, do, What are the similarities you find between the formats of getting this message or idea across, within like a short amount of time?

commercials, like it's all essentially visually, even though you're, you know, making in a music video, you're making it for a song. If you're telling a story, which is kind of my thing. I like narratives. A lot of music videos are not narrative, but I think people come to me wanting like more of a narrative vibe.

So in that case, if it is narrative, you can mute the song. And if you look at what's happening, you could. See what the story is.  It's the same with a commercial. Like you have a purpose, like what are you trying to say? You can just mute it and you'll see what you're selling and then probably notice what you're feeling.

You know what I mean? It's all kind of the same. Um,

that, yeah, that's an interesting way to look at it. I mean, obviously most people mute commercials anyway, so that's, you're, you're

you don't need

But with a music video, it's interesting to think of kind of extending that same principle of having that same message, whether you're listening to it or not, even though it is based on the sound.

Yeah, I mean it's actually, I do that. I don't know. Probably most people don't. Uh, but I, I do that with music videos. Um, and I just, I just finished a short film and I did that. I muted the whole thing as like 20. And I just was like looking at it and seeing if you could tell what's happening with no dialogue and with no music and with nothing.

And it's like, yeah, you can totally see what is happening with nothing, you know, no audio whatsoever.

uh, practice. I think that's, uh, that's great advice. I don't know if anyone, uh, how many other people would think to do that. So

It works, people, it works. Try

Yeah. And it makes sure that you're, it's quality. You're not relying on all of the elements necessarily late.

They kind of stand strongly on their own as well, which is great.  also just kind of a question that I know some people have in terms of music videos. Um, how much like actual singing versus lip syncing and stuff is there when you're filming? Thanks.

Well, that depends. I mean, uh, if you are doing a live video, then that's all live, you know? Um, and then if you're doing a video that has perform. What you're hearing is from the record, but they're singing. I mean, you know, if it's, if it's gonna look believable on camera, they have to sing. So they're singing, but you're not hearing what they're singing.

but the, Yeah, and then there's also, uh, I, I don't know if you've done any in, in, in your videos, but you know, if you're doing the faster or slower and they have to kind of

Oh, that's

sing, sing it at different speed or whatever, so that visually it'll look

that is really weird  and fun. But it's

I used to, when I'd see that in a video, I would always start thinking of how that would be created.

So

it's like if you, so if you are shooting, um, you know, slow motion, if you wanted to be slow motion, then you have to speed up the song double time. And so they're, it doesn't work with every song cuz some songs have a lot going on or a lot of lyrics.

So you that kind.

Mm-hmm.

Choice, creative choice won't work. So, um, I actually did that for a rap video that I did not that long ago. His name's Plato the Third, and we did that. But it worked because his song was like, you know, medium enough and didn't have a ton of lyrics in that part to where he could sing it double time, even though it's all in slow motion.

Because, Yeah, it's really also, it's harder for the artist because they're singing in double time, but I'm like, Yeah, but you gotta hit the emotional beats, you know, And they're like,

Yeah, it sounds like, uh, fascinating to, to see behind the scenes of some of these, like there's a polished final product, but there's a lot for any, any project. It's fun seeing behind the scenes for all of

Mm-hmm.

is there any specific advice you'd give to someone looking to get into music videos specifically?

Well, um, just make one. Um, you know, I'm sure that they have friends who make music or, you know, anybody family, um, offer to make them a music video or I've also heard some of my friends that have broken into it. They, um, I thought this was a cool. Way to do it. If you have the funds and you have the time, you know, you pick an artist and you pick a song you really like that they don't have a music video for, and they just went out and made it and then brought it to the artist, and the artist was like, Oh, this is great.

You know, they, they always, these musicians always need content. Uh, my husband just started a record label and he's a musician and. They need content all the time for all this music. So, you know, if you're coming to them with something already funded and made, um, and well thought out 90% of the time, I can guarantee you that they're gonna love it and be like, Yeah, let's, That's great.

I mean, it sounds like not only is there a lot more math in music videos than people might think , um, but that, you know, it, it's, it runs the gamut. All, all different style genres, whatever, you can still have your own.

Look and aesthetic because like you said, a lot more artists than, uh, people realize are just saying, I'm coming to you cuz maybe like you're good at narrative or you're good at this look or that style and they're saying, I want you to do what you want with it. Um, but also because there's so much in variety, it seems like these are great ways to get a lot of experience doing a lot of different types of shots and things.

Um,

sure. I think, Yeah. It's so much fun and yes, there's so many things I see where, uh, I'm like, how did they do that? Um, , I have no idea. Uh, like my son just started pre-K and one of. His best friends, you know, in class. His dad is in this like metal band, and I saw his music video and their music videos are insane.

It looks like just hundreds of thousands of dollar budgets. And then he's like, Oh, it's all green screen, and I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a second. And so then I went down this rabbit hole and there's this amazing director who just does all these hardcore band videos and they're literally all green screen and they look epic.

And they're just shot on an A seven s. And I have that in my garage, you know? And I just, because I've never. Made anything like that. I just, you know, I didn't even know you could do something like that. So now I'm like, Okay, who can I do a green screen video for?

Yeah, I mean it's, they're, they're like, music videos are always these fun, like little, I don't know, I think there's kind of like the box of chocolates or whatever. There's all these different types and styles, but it's like this nice little bite and gives you these ideas and everything too, so that's awesome.

  beyond music videos, As, as we've already heard throughout, um, you do  a lot of other things and other projects. I understand you are working on a feature film right now and as well as finishing up a short film. Can you tell us a little bit more about those projects?

Yes. I'm so excited. Um, I just today finished my short film. It's called Passing Through, and it's about 20. And we are in the, you know, middle of submitting it everywhere. Um, but I'm so, so, so proud of it and I honestly have not been proud of, I don't think anything I've made ever, um, like this. So

A true humble artist. You know, nothing. Most people, they just hate everything they do and everyone loves it. But you're just like, Nope, it's terrible cuz I see how I wanted it to be. Or

Mm-hmm. . Like, there are a couple music videos I've done where I'm like, Ooh, that was awesome. But this just blows everything outta the water. I'm so excited. And

what's it about?

it's, so, I wrote this script, um, I've been writing it for years, but, you know, the pandemic, I keep getting pregnant.

I'm like, Ugh, when am I gonna, when am I gonna make this? But, I wanted to make it, um, the feature, but because of the pandemic, I think, and just whatever I wasn't getting, it just wasn't really going anywhere as far as finding funding and stuff. Um, and so I wrote a short within the feature to, you know, hopefully make it easier to get funding for the movie, but then also for it to be its own thing.

But yeah, I think mainly what I was coming up against with investors and stuff is like, well, you're clearly really good at music videos, but movies are a whole different thing and you don't know how to do that, so we're not gonna give you $2 million. And I was like, Okay, well let me prove it to you.

Yeah. for me, two would also be like, yeah, I mean, I make many movies, but I could definitely make big ones too. Yeah.

But honestly, I'm so happy that I, I went through, I was really reluctant at first to do this short, you know, cuz I'm like, I've been writing this movie for four years or five, whatever, and I just wanna make the movie, you know? And, but I'm so, so happy that I made the short film because I just saw what worked and what didn't.

You know, as far as dialogue and pacing. , all of it, and I know that what I need to change now in the movie and how we can make it just better all around. So I'm really grateful actually, that it's taken this long to get here. But yeah, I'm really happy,

that sounds awesome. I'm really excited. Um, is it like a, like a comedy,

It's a dark comedy.

A dark comedy. Okay. Um, if anyone wanted to see some of your portfolio and learn more about you and your work, and I guess eventually find out more about some of these other projects, um, where can they go to?

well, I have a website, um, it's erica hyphen silverman dot. Um, and then I'm online Instagram, she's a unicorn. Um, and I think that's it. I'm trying to think. I don't have a Facebook, I don't have Twitter. Um, yeah.

we will put your, your website and all that stuff in, in the show notes as well for, for people to make it easier. thank you so much for giving us a glimpse into this world of music videos, even if, uh, even if they eventually go away down the line. It's, it, it is a part of, it is a part of the sort of visual storytelling history.

You know, that's, they're, they're a really cool, uh, medium I think for, for adding visuals to music. Maybe a great way for people to learn more and cut their teeth on these, you know, different, uh, parts of filmmaking. So,

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. And honestly, I don't think music videos will go away as long as we have computers and TVs and a platform to see visuals and music together, it'll always be there. I just. I think what we're seeing is a crumbling of the record label, like the dynamics of what is funded and just how all of that works.

So I don't know it

Well, thank you so much. It's been really great to, to get to know you and your work more.

Definitely. Uh, I recommend to everybody go check out her website. There's some great stuff on there to, to watch and get inspired  for creating as well. 

Well, thank you so much, Candace.