How I Got It Made (#4)

welcome. And thank you for joining us for another installment of our recurring segment, how I got it made. I'm your host Candace block. Each month, I sit down with two different with members and chat with these filmmakers about one or two of their successfully completed projects. We discuss their journey and process as we delve into how they got it made.

On this episode, I have a conversation with Maggie Stagner.  And after that I talk with Laura seltzer Dai. 

I'm sitting down with Maggie Burnett. Stagner an award-winning veteran of the filmmaking industry. She is the executive director of the center for environmental filmmaking, a professor of film and media arts at  American university.

The founder of the independent production company, blueberry films she's the documentary writer, producer and director who spent many years producing films with national geographic and others, as well as immersive media. For exhibitions throughout the world. Maggie is an educator and creator committed to producing opportunities, experiences, and work that are catalysts for meaningful change through compelling storytelling.

And she's also an executive member of w . So hi, Maggie. It's an honor to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us.

Well, thank you so much for inviting me. I really appreciate it.

So we're gonna delve into a couple of your current pieces or more recent pieces, unreadable the fight for healthy air and upstream down river. But before we talk about those just for listeners to get to know you a little bit more how did you get into this? And when did you kind of decide that documentary and like education, all type things was gonna be your main focus.

Oh, my story's a total cliche.  My parents gave me that little camera when I was 10 and I just loved going out in nature and taking photographs and honing the way I saw the world, I think was what captured my attention is that it just intensifies. Your connection, especially with nature.

So it went from there. But I also grew up, I grew up in Berkeley. I grew up with a pretty politically activist family. And so I saw from a very young age, kind of the power of storytelling to further, to advocate for certain issues. 

you primarily are a producer and director, is that correct? Writer producer director or

I really, when I saw myself, I think originally always as a.

okay.

I just love to write, I think there's something about playing with words and then the visuals came as well. And then it really was understanding how those work together to create that full story, that mood, that way of just revealing things that can be interesting.

And how to connect people on a really visceral level on that real human level. But yeah, so I would say. Director writer, producer. I do a lot of producing because in documentary, particularly lower budgeted documentaries you wear a lot of hats. But my favorite arena is definitely in the directing and the writing.

Is there a particular filmmaker that has been an inspiration to you or someone that when you were first starting out, were trying to emulate at all or using as a, yeah, as inspiration.

And , I always laugh at that question because there's so many, I mean, I had the very good fortune of being mentored early on by some extraordinary filmmakers. I ended up going to the Stanford documentary program for my graduate degree. Just a really fortunate gift that was life changing for me.

And through that program met a lot of filmmakers. Watched a lot of films and going forward worked both in documentary, some in feature films some in interactive and it was just a constant process of wanting to learn more and just having these incredibly generous people as mentors. So I can't single out anyone.

It's so hard.

we're gonna talk a little bit more specifically about a couple films unreadable the fight for healthy air, which is a 30 minute film about the challenges we've faced and continue to face in the struggle to have clean air for everyone and upstream down river, which is I'm assuming about

Well, you can tell us more about each of those. Are you're the executive producer and director of both of those.  

I'm the director writer, producer, executive producer. a lot of hats. When I first started out filmmaking I worked across all sorts of different films and.  and it was really interesting to work in the independent world where, people are struggling to make independent films about really important issues.

And then I went into more work for hire. So, at apple computer and then I had a production company and then ended up at national geographic. Thank you, Lauren Cardillo executive member of w and so it was it was a different experience when you still have to pitch films, but when you know, the money is there to make films and you're gonna be fully funded at the very beginning of the process.

And so that that's a very different experience than I think what a lot. Independent filmmakers go through in trying to raise funds for their films and the ongoing kind of process of finding partnerships and and reaching out to people and saying, Hey, I've got this really great project going and could you help support it?

And it's not easy. So it's two different pathways. For a lot of

 can you tell people just a little bit about like one, one or two sentences about what each of those films are about before we kind of delve into a little bit more of the specifics of how they were created?

Yeah. Yeah. So UN breathable to fight for healthy air. I made in time for the 50 year anniversary of the clean air act. So it looks at the milestones over 50 years, the bipartisanship that went into creating this amazing set of laws as well as community and very personal stories so that people, it puts a face on what does that mean?

And the communities that are still struggling with unhealthy air and what they're trying to do to ensure. Clean air for everyone. The film I'm working on right now, upstream down river is we're hitting the 50 year anniversary of the clean water act this year. So it is looking again at communities working so hard to make sure that there's healthy.

Waterways for everyone that upstream down river, the watershed idea which can go across multiple states and the milestones and the laws that we have to work with from the clean water act. But it really goes beyond both of the films go beyond just what can you do with these laws? Both of the films are about civic engagement and community engagement.

In some ways we've kind of lost our way. Knowing that we are the government, right? We are the people in power.  So we're really trying with these films to create kinda mobilization tools, catalyst tools to be used by a wide range of organizations to get people on board with.

Yes. We can really make change happen if we come together.

that's great. Those are two crucially important subjects. So, thank you for making those films for one. So, when you're making these, obviously for these, you had 50th anniversaries of milestone events, but in general when do you realize a cause or a subject is something that you.

Want to turn into a documentary or you feel like you've got enough to make it into a piece that can have this visual storytelling element to get out there.

Well, that's an interesting question, I think why does anybody make any one film and being able to articulate that is super important. So for me, it does come down to, I have to. Connected to it somehow. I mean, it has to be something that I know I'm gonna live with. I'm gonna breathe and it's gonna be just, that cloud that follows me around everywhere.

For a, not just a year, but several years. Right. I mean, I think that was my mistake. Or just my naivete when I first started out in filmmaking was thinking, okay, I've got a film project. I'm gonna get it started and have it done in six months. . It does not happen that way. At least not in the independent film world.

So, so it has to be meaningful on a sustainable level for the filmmaker. I mean, and the filmmaking team, because it's not easy, it's not an easy road. So, so, nature, clean water, clean air. I mean, that was very much what I grew up with and appreciated and grew up with an appreciation of being able to Have that, I mean, from the time I was very young backpacking in the Sierra mountains and we just took our cups and had a, water right out of the snow melt streams.

And then seeing things degrade over time. And then in, in the Trump administration, seeing things really get hammered and in terms of regulatory policy and protecting, and, our. Amazing country and it needs to be protected. So I was very motivated  and very motivated.  I had great partners on unreadable.

The center for environmental policy at American university reached out to me and asked if I would put a short film together for a symposium that they were organizing. And.  and we started talking and the more we talked more, it became really clear that this was so much bigger than just, oh, a little, kind of archival film.

Let's do something bigger. And fortunately the American lung association came on board as a partner and we were able to create something. That wasn't just about the policy, but really importantly, very much about communities fighting and how they go about, just the communities that have been struggling for years, like in cancer alley for 40 years, they've been struggling to get rid of these polluting Plants that are causing so much cancer in that region.

Two more hopeful stories were, the last story in unreadable is about a group of high school kids who came together because they learned that there was gonna be an incinerator built just a mile from their school in Baltimore and Curtis bay and yet another incinerator in Baltimore, right?

So they found an organization called free your voice. They came together and got the entire community involved in. In blocking this incinerator and after three years they succeeded.  in doing,

We can't be all.

yeah, you have to leave some hope. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's powerful to have that as well. So it doesn't feel like something that's completely insurmountable it's yeah.

Exactly. You have to have that. You have to have the hope so, so yeah, so it's those kinds of motivators that and then of course, that project is continuing that film, the website, the webinars, the environmental tool kits that are on the website that just continues to be used all over the place, all over the country.

I just had a screening last week with the. The Alliance of nurses for a healthy environment.

Oh, wow. That's wonderful. I mean, these particular types of issues can definitely, they've got staying power for these projects. It's not about something that happened. It's about something that's happening still. So

Right. And I think that's an important part of going into a project, particularly now that we have so many opportunities to do outreach in many different ways is to go into the project, thinking about all those different potential partnerships and potential outreach opportunities.

Yeah. So I does that help when you're starting a piece to think of it's full lifespan and beyond and things like outreach. Do you start thinking about that right from the onset?

Yeah, very much. I mean, outreach at the very beginning of the

Does that help with funding it at all or getting those partnerships? Do you reach out like immediately to say that you're going to be doing a project or do you like to have a little. Started to show them.

Oh, you need something just to make it real. So a website is, just, even if it's. Bare bones, but you know, it has to look good. But it doesn't have to have, all bells and whistles. So good website, a strong trailer are absolutely essential that just grounds it in making it feel real.

Having putting a good strong team together, a diverse team that can represent different perspectives. That grounds it in making it a real project. So I think starting there and then really looking at those partnerships as strategic partners throughout the entire process, people love to be involved in film  right.

So, so having that strategic partnership partnerships all the way through, because at the end of the day, then that is also gonna help you with your distribution. And so it helps with the funding.  because then you start to show that you're gonna have a built in distribution when you get to the point where the film is finished

 so do you start with sort of an overall structure of the story do you, when do, and then you start interviews and how, for people that are curious, like what is the timeline? I know it's an ongoing process, but what are some of the initial things that, you have to start doing right away?

when I first am thinking about a film, I just, you need that one paragraph. Even that one sentence that defines it. And a great title.  I can't tell you how important a great title is. And then from there you really need to build a strong team and start to look at the stories with UN breathable, the fight for he air and upstream down river.

There's some built in content that I know that we're going to use. Archival give a perspective, but then we very much start to look at what are the specific stories that really humanize the issue and put a face on it and connect with audiences. And so we're going through that process right now.

Looking at the stories that represent some of the most egregious Instances of unhealthy air, unhealthy waters. And then some that really provide hope. And then some that really look at innovation and what are some of the new innovations and then casting forward with upstream down river because of our increasing impact from the climate crisis is important as well.

So, so, So that's on one side. And then on the other side, we start looking at, okay, who are the great interviews on the policy side and who, who are we involving on that side as well. So. Something else I wanna talk about, because I think this is a turning point. We've seen a lot of change in our media landscape.

It's so fragmented now and it can be very intimidating and very just daunting to figure out. Okay. What does distribution even mean? Any. More, and unless you've got a huge budget and you're doing a major streaming on Netflix or something how do you do a smaller film, an independent film that is gonna get distribution and gonna get out to people.

And that's why it's so important to start thinking about the impact and the partnerships from the very beginning, because you can do different iterations. So for instance, with upstream down river, We'll do a longer film, but we're also doing a constellation of short videos to represent different perspectives from across the country.

With the idea that then on our website, we'll have a story map and you can go to the different stories across the country and connect with different organizations through the clean water for all consortium and the American rivers and find specific resources for those areas. So having that vision.  and then filling in the puzzle pieces is a really great approach, as long as you're willing to hang in with that project for quite some time.

 you had mentioned archival footage and everything as a nice space. So where do you go for most of that? Is it national archives originally? Cuz that's all right here. Are there places that are resources that people might not think or might not know about that are great sources of archival stuff

Great question. I love archival . there's so much in the archives and so much is being digitized. Now that there are, it's just a. Treasure trove of great material. So there are the big ones library of Congress, national archives, but because so much is being digitized.

The New York public library has an amazing amount of archive available at high res. So you're not having to go through that process of, oh, what do I want? Okay. Here's the low re or it's watermark, and then I have to go back and, so, they were one of the first two to do that. Smithsonian has its 2.0 project.

So they have quite a bit Also digitized. So, but I think what I really appreciate are the historical societies, because they're so dedicated to bring forward the history, they have great stories and you can find archive that isn't used constantly

You find gems.  I Was a director producer writer on a film called gold mountain. It was actually three hour series and I did the middle hour and we had a huge number of archive elements just in one hour to tell the history of pioneering Chinese and in the old west, in their contribution to building the infrastructure of the west, the transcontinental railroad and others.

The same images had been used over and over again.  and every time that story is told, and we were fortunate to have the budget to be able to look deeper and actually digitize for the first time, some of some early imagery and the historical societies were just amazing. Amazing. 

it's good to really hunt for it because sometimes those new images are. What really makes the difference in, in telling the story, the

Yeah, that's excellent. Those.

new, old images, I should say.

the previously not seen enough  but yeah. And then once you have all of those, I know keeping it sort of, if it's a still image, for example, keeping it dynamic. And interesting. What are some of the ways that you like to utilize, whether it be like music or sound effects or animations or things like that, how do you bring a lot of your supplemental stuff to life?

That's not, I.  

with archive, it's interesting. I always try to find faces.  because we connect with faces, we connect with eyes. So if I'm doing two point or three point moves on an image, I'm just gonna move right up into the face into those eyes. So we can connect with that person then.

Yes, there's music there's sound effects. All of those elements can, good sound design absolutely can bring a live archive. And I've worked a lot. With different archive in the historical cultural museum exhibitions that I've done filmed for. And. Sometimes it's the image is enough or the footage clip is enough.

You don't need to add soundtracks to it. You can leave it up to somebody's imagination. It's a little bit different in the museum world because you have sound spill issues and things like that. So you don't always wanna add a whole lot of soundtrack, but finding something in between. I like to just hint



And to spark the imagination, same with reenactments, kind of impressionistic reenactments or things that don't, try to get into too much detail because sparking that imagination is really what involves the audience in the

 as an educator yourself how important is it to you to bring on, Students and people learning and new people and fresh blood into each project. As opposed to, I'm sure there's veterans that you collaborate with time and time again, but how important is it to bring in the new blood?

I think it's incredibly important that we provide growing opportunities for the next generation. film is changing all the time film. Short video, digital video, social media video. It's a new world. And so I think that it, the education educational flow is both ways, right. It but I do think that I was fortunate to have good men mentors and I think it's important that people who have been around a while really take that seriously and mentor the next generation.

 what has been some of the most exciting new sort of technological advances that have helped you do things differently, whether it's, lighter, easier camera equipment, things like that in terms of documentary because also kind of in conjunction with that, how much of these particular documentaries did you source material versus create your own new material?

I like wherever possible to get as much of the original footage ourselves. I think that there's a certain cohesiveness to the design and the style and the aesthetic that's really important. And so being able to capture as much footage rather than have to, buy stock through pond five or whatever, there's always gonna be gaps, or sometimes you just don't have the budget to go out and travel to that one more location.

So for some of the contextual footage you might draw on other sources, but for the primary footage, that's not archival. I really like to make as much of as possible original, I think I really enjoy interviewing people. I think that's key to being able to, just have a conversation with somebody and get beyond that veer and really have them talk about something on a deeper level is really something that makes a.

Powerful and compelling, and you're not gonna get that to your stock footage. Right. So, so yeah, it just, it means a bigger commitment to trying to raise funds.

Yeah. Yeah, and I'm sure it's great. Even nowadays with some of these issues and stuff that everyone has a camera in their hand nowadays. So the quality of some of that stuff I'm sure there's a lot more to draw from if there's a particular like at a protest or something, there's more footage, things like that.

That's gotta be a new

And there's, I mean, yeah. And there are definitely reasons to to source footage from multiple sources. Absolutely. But, we have, I mean, you had mentioned lighter equipment, that's been just. Amazing that I can go out with a camera on gold mountain. We had a, we trumped up into the Donner summit area back in the, with all our equipment, but it's lighter equipment.

And we even had this movie that could simulate jib shots out, that lighter equipment. I mean, just even 10 years ago, I dunno that would've been

yeah. And drones and things too. Like there's so many other

gonna say drones. Oh my gosh. Drones are amazing. I mean, my students today are doing just incredible work and they all, into drones, into different kinds of stabilizing equipment underwater GoPros mounted cameras.

I mean, it's, we have a lot of toys to play with that are not very expensive. And.

more accessible.

Yeah, more accessible and if it's motivated, you really can do some amazing storytelling.

 is there anything that you could think of on these particular films that, that jumped out as like an unforeseen obstacle that you had to deal with?

We kind of see documentary filmmaking, at least independent documentary filmmaking as one long series of obstacle.

Yeah.

well, it's, I love puzzles and I think.

course that

It's an obstacle course, and so I couldn't think of as one big puzzle and how am I gonna fit the pieces together? And part of the fun of documentary is you really have to draw on kind of a spontaneity.

And there's a serendipity where, you know oh, that happened. Okay. What are we gonna do now? We gotta figure out the next solution.  There's a lot of problem, creative problem solving. I think it's a lot of fun. It could be frustrating. We certainly hit a wall at certain points in the process, but generally, if you keep the right kind of attitude, it can be a lot of

 So these takes, as you said, very long time would you consider like, unrea you said you're still working on upstream down river, but unreadable is that considered the longer form is done. You would consider that done for now.

And breathable premiered in 2020 with the DC environmental film festival.

so how long do you think that took?

Just so people can get a general sense on that particular one. How long start to finish for the most part

Actually, it went pretty quickly. It took about two years and we got shut down basically because of COVID in March of 2020. And I had thought we'd do. A 30 minute, but also then a longer film. And we stuck with just the 30 minute. In fact, a funny story. Our very last interview was with Arnold.

Schwartzenegger at the gold gym in Venice beach in California at seven o'clock in the morning. But he was the first governor to sign a global warming act. Into being in 2006 and we were, I really wanted this bipartisanship through the film. So I really wanted to get an interview with him and that was it.

And then we got shut down, but 30 minutes in the virtual world tend, it just turned out to work incredibly well. I think people think, oh, I've gotta make the 90 minute feature film. There's certain things you can't do with the 30 minute, but there's a whole lot today that you can do with the 30 minute.

And it's. For that virtual one hour programming, you have the half hour film, you have the panel, you have the Q and a done. And we still are just going really strong with a lot of different webinars and virtual screenings.

And for the upstream down river how, when did you start on that one? Because that one's still going, but yeah.

Started thinking about it right on the heels of the clean air act of UN unreadable. And I started to do a little bit of research, but really didn't get into the full swing until. Probably about a year ago now. But again, pretty fast. I mean, we're behind schedule at this point. Fundraising has been tough right now.

But we'll get there and it may not be exactly where we wanna be when we wanna be there.  But we'll have something  and we'll

Sounds like being adaptable is the name of the game here. So

Well, this is where, at a certain point, I finally did learn to be more patient  because I recognize that you can put it all your energy into it and still not get to where you wanna be.

And, but if you think longer term. It's not like a switch just goes off and the issue is done. You think longer term and you think about, okay, well, if I can't get here, I can at least have this done by this date and continue to build and continue to build because the issue's not going away. So, we'll so that mindset is call me down a little bit.

it's a helpful note for people. You have to have that type of mentality, or it helps to have that. And so you're working on multiple things in conjunction. Do, does that. For a particular thing that you're totally invested in. Do you like to keep it no more than a certain number of projects sort of going on the stove or whatever at the same time for your sort of mental, emotional health?

Or do you, just take what you can based on what's happening in each thing or

 I think what I've learned over time is that my projects need to dovetail somehow. If there are too many completely separate projects, It just drives you crazy.  really so, so if you can get your projects to dovetail, for instance, I'm doing some impact media research funded by H M I tango bank studios, and unreadable is a case study for that.

So there's a dovetail there, and it's really looking at how you can start building that impact from the very beginning of a project. That website is C impact media.org and it's and I'm open to people sending me case study ideas, because we're really looking at innovative ways to create that impact starting at the very beginning.

And then really strategically thinking about how you make your. To to reach the, and have the impact that you want over time. And there are many ways to do that. And I mean, again, we're in an exciting time period. I mean, frustrating in some ways, but very exciting at all the opportunities we have to do that.

So as long as there's some overlap between the projects, then I can see pretty sane. But if there's not, then I have to pull back because it doesn't do any one project justice. If you're.

 have you seen in in these films already with unreadable, for example any policy changes or things that have come from the sort of education and the awareness that these.

These films, aim to, to get, do you measure like the success based on how many people are seeing it? If it actually creates change, do you follow up on them to see what, what has happened?

Yeah. That's evaluating impact is really a challenge beyond just, oh, how many likes or how many view. So we definitely have tracked. I think one of our key indicators that the film has made a difference is the fact that it keeps getting picked up by different organizations through word of mouth.

So it's just gone from, oh, here we had kind of our list of people we thought would wanna screen the film. So the American lung associations through their standup for clean air campaign all their state chapters to the Us climate action network eco America. So there were some, we had a list, but then out of nowhere comes another organization that says, Hey, we'd like to use your film.

So that's a success benchmark for me that yes it's getting out. There's being used. People are getting a positive response from how they're using it and how they're engaging has policy changed because of the film. I hope so



I, I can say, I know that people have gotten engaged with the topic, so we know that and at this point it's a lot of people through a lot of different organizations from environmental to health to, so it's, multi-layered multifaceted.

But direct policy change. That's harder to.

Yeah, well, at least you're getting more people to see it, which could then could inspire them to do more on multiple levels and make the impacts that they can for something that's very important for all of us, especially with these. I mean, we all breathe and we all . We all need water to live.

Yeah.

of the film, right? I mean, it's thousands a day. That's that statistic surprised me, but that's why I opened the film with that, 20,000 breaths a day. We all.

Yeah. So, before we kind of let people know where they can find these films  and learn more about you and everything. If, is there any particular advice that we haven't gone over that you would give to someone looking to get into the filmmaking or documentary filmmaking space that hasn't been said before?

Maybe something that, you don't hear very often, but you thought would, would've been really good to know at the beginning for yourself.

I think one thing that's important is understanding that there's a whole community women and film and video provides an amazing community.

So if. Do decide you're starting out. You wanna test the waters and see if you know filmmaking's for you and you Wade into those waters just know that there's a lot of other people out there that can help support you. And we all get in that space where requiring, oh my God, why did I ever start on this project ever gonna come?

What am I doing? And then you reach out to somebody and you say, Hey, you wanna go have coffee?  talk me off the cliff.

Yeah,

So, so, I mean, I love women in film video. I, I came to a meeting when I first came out to DC and somebody invited me to a meeting and I think it was one of their awards events.

And I thought, wow, what an amazing group of really supportive people. And so I think it's important to recognize that it's also important to know that if you are working on independent films,  it is gonna be tough. And that's why it's super important to think hard about what you choose to work on.

And that's true, even in work for hire, that be strategic about your career. I bounced around a lot just, oh, okay. I'll go over here. I'll go over there. And then finally I thought, no, I need to get a little more focused on  what I'm doing. I, it would've been good if maybe I got a little more focused early on, but I really didn't know.

And I don't have a lot of regrets. I think it's make the

Yeah, you have to learn what you don't want by doing it too. Sometimes

That's right. I think there was a motto at when I worked at apple, that was really great. And that was the journey is the reward and I really encourage people to embrace that. It's not the end product.

Sure. We all think, great. We have this film, we have another credit or whatever it is. But if that journey isn't, satisfying, if that process isn't satisfying, you really have to think about what you're doing.

Exactly.  if anyone wants to see unbreathable the fight for healthy air, how would they go about  doing that? And when might they be able to see upstream down river?

our website very easy is just unreadable.org and there's information for how to license a film to screen the film it's also available on canopy. So you can go see it on canopy. It's not available through Amazon prime or any of those at this point, cause we're just finishing up the festival circuit.

But go on the website and if you are interested in using it for a screening there's Some information you can fill out so you can connect with our outreach producer, Elizabeth Hertzfeld camper. Who's amazing a producer on the film, the outreach producer, and now helping she's producer on upstream down river.

So upstream down river, also easy to find just upstream down river.org.

Got some great names. If you could get those.

just just have our website is launched. We have a trailer and we're building out the website and we will premier a film



in time for the 50 year anniversary of the clean water act, which is in October.

Thank you so much for chatting with us and good luck  I'm here chatting with Laura seltzer, Dai an award-winning producer and director with about 20 years of experience.

She focuses primarily on documentaries and educational programs and has founded Selzer film and video in service to her passion for producing videos that inspire change for social and environmental causes. She believes in today, we're gonna discuss three of her documentaries as we learn more about how she got them made.

So, hi, Laura, thanks for joining us today and welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me today. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today. Sure.

So we're gonna delve into a few of your more recent documentaries, but before we get into that, let's let listeners get to know you and your journey just a little bit more. So how did you first get into this field? Like when did you realize filmmaking was the lane you wanted to travel down?

Photography in the early nineties. And I was up in New York city and realized that I, I wanted to work broaden my scope, not just work on still images, but the moving picture. So  I went to school at NYU and was studying film there. I ended up  starting off in commercials, working on commercials and music videos, which was fun.

But it didn't have the substance I wanted. So I volunteered on a documentary . About HIV  living HIV positive in the early nineties, which was kind of groundbreaking. And I found my passion and ever since that's my passion to work on documentaries and educational programs.

 not necessarily the money making opportunities.  I've been working in this field for many years and not having to go into another field and to supplement my income. So we really can do it, but we are like the social workers.

In the field, you know, we're not gonna be millionaires, but we're gonna be fine. We're gonna do well. If we really pursue our, our passions.

 you primarily produce and direct, but you've also done some camera work and things like that as well. Is that

have, I have.

do you wanna focus mostly on producing and directing, or do you like dabbling in some of the other parts of filmmaking?

I.

Okay. That is such a great question, because I'll just say like through the nineties, up in most of the early two thousands, I did not touch any equipment. And I feel like at that point in the, in the, in our Documentary and professional worlds. It was separate. You had producers directors, writers. You had the, the deep, the directors of photography, the audio, the lighting now flash forward is when I had an opportunity to work on my very first documentary.

It was called last vote out. It was a PBS film. It was my first independent film and I had no choice, but to pick up a camera and my dear friend and colleague of many, many years who we work on, a lot of each other's films, Karen Hayes, she said, borrow my camera, go out, film it. And I'm so nervous. And I did, I did it.

I filmed most of that, film myself, my, that documentary myself, and I mean, that's a big takeaway that I just wanna tell you guys who are listening that yes, that was 2007 and it was a bigger camera and it was, you know, professional gear, but we don't need professional. We, professional gear is great, but let me just flash forward now to our current film in progress, who I'm a impact producer on, but I'm also filming on it.

A camera person. I'm shooting on an iPhone. I'm using 4k. I'm shooting it with this app called film. If know, if you guys don't know of that one, look that up, you can purchase it. It's a very affordable down app on your phone. I'm using a, a gimble You can, these gimbals, you can hold and really create these beautiful, beautiful pans.

And with film, you can get the aperture. My point is don't be afraid to pick up the camera and cover this, the important footage that needs to be captured because. It gives you this opportunity to like, you can, you can use it in conjunction with a professional camera person's work, or it can become your film.

Oh, yeah. The advancements in technology have made so much more accessible and especially in the world of, of documentary.  Do you have a particular filmmaker or anything that you consider a source of inspiration or someone you hope to emulate or, or get to be like?

Or is it just you enjoy it and you were gonna be yourself

It's interesting that when I moved  to Washington DC, after I was, when I decided to get into the documentary and educational world, I went no joke. I went to the women in film. That was the first thing I did.

I went to the president, Jennifer ner. She was the president at the time and she sat down with me. She was amazing. She gave me a whole list of the top documentary filmmakers. Washington DC. I reached out to every single one of them. I actually wrote like handwritten letters, which is another thing that we don't do anymore, but wow.

Wouldn't that be an interesting concept to like write a letter to people,

I do some sometimes still, but yeah, it is a throwback. Yeah.

I such a great idea. Right? Well, I ended up. Working with so many of those filmmakers documentary filmmakers working for them, like as a production assistant or an associate producer or archival researcher.

And they're my role models. So I'm grateful. I'm so grateful to women in film and to have been a member of this organization for so long.

Yeah, so yeah, I mean, yeah, people you work with it doesn't have to be some famous name that everyone will know right off the, off the top, you get your inspiration wherever you can.

Yeah, but some of these, some of these filmmakers in women and film are in our local chapter are, are famous, you

oh yeah, no.

Jenny Ricky green, Michael car Aviva, just some truly great role models in our community.

 So onto your creations, the ones that we're gonna talk about today we're gonna discuss the last boat out, which was released in 2010, a 28 minute PBS doc about a family of Waterman. Trying to preserve their way of life working on the Chesapeake bay, which is also a story about pollution as well.

Then nobody wants us from 2020, which is an Emmy nominated 35 minute PBS historical doc about refugees coming to America and their issues. Being able to disembark in all of that stuff from their ship. And then finally, a little bit about Los Ogas which is coming up later this year about women attorneys on the front lines of the migrant crisis.

 So, overall, when do you realize that you found a subject that you wanna bring to light in a documentary?

Like how do you know it's a piece that's a story worth pursuing. Turning into a visual documentary, as well as just a subject you care about.

A lot of times people will come to me with a story and it takes a little time for it to resonate. That it's really a good story for me. So I have to actually go out and spend time before I start to film or. Or spend time on the phone with them before I start to film and really just talk about it, talk to the experts, talk to the subject matter experts.

The people who are really familiar with the story who went through the story, and as you're filming it off, often, it takes me a little time to start the filming process. And then it starts to all come about that. This is a story that I really wanna. Make a full half hour, which tends to be my sweet spot, or it could be a one hour, which is also a sweet spot of mine.

Or perhaps it's just a segment that might be on something else. 

the content, and as you're collecting, it sort of informs the length of it in the finished. Form. Okay. Interesting.  so the order of things, I, I assume gets a little bit muddy, but as you said, you go out and you start doing interviews is doing interviews. One of the first steps that you do in, in this.

the first step is to do the research and to figure out what the storylines are and to make phone calls and to. Diligent notes and then find whatever else is there for, for the historical research in the background. And then I do go out and film interviews typically, like for example nobody wants us this film about Holocaust refugees who were hoping to find safety in the United States.

The first thing I did because sadly people in 1940 most. PA have passed away. Literally only one person on this one ship that came to the us and found freedom in the U is still living from that ship. But in 2012, someone came to me about the story. I didn't know how far the story would become. You know, how, what a, if, if there would be become an may nominated you know, film on PBS or if it would just be a family history video.

But I went and interviewed. The few still living in 2012, it sat in the archive, for several years. And then in 2019, it really came, became apparent that it was time to tell this story. And we did.

 do you have multiple projects working at the same time because of how long? Sometimes they can take to research and gather more content. So do you, you typically have more than one kind of going at once.

Absolutely absolutely often I'm working on more than one documentary. One might be in development phase. One might be in filming stage one might be in post production phase, but really what is Really imperative is also to have like corporate clients and nonprofit clients. So I'll work on I'll film a variety of short projects throughout cuz that's really what you know, a lot of the bread and butter where it comes

Yeah, well pays the bills.

Mm-hmm  absolutely.

Cause not, not every good cause is just, doesn't come with a big paycheck there. It's important to get it out, but you're not doing it.  you're doing it for

Absolutely. I mean, sometimes you can get some great seed money from an investor who really cares about the project. And that helps a lot. Grants have never been my thing, you know, there's some filmmakers out there who are just phenomenal at getting the grants. But You know, that is why you do have to supplement it with other, other ways of me, you know, other film, ways of making an income by making film.

Yeah, definitely. So, in terms of documentary storytelling,  is there a main difference between documentary versus like a fictional narrative? I mean, I know you want both to be compelling in their own ways, but how, how do you personally feel like the different forms are their own thing?

What I love about documentaries is that they are first person telling the story about those, the real true story, whether it's actual interviews that you can conduct,  my film and development right now is about. Refugees in 1860, they were slaves, slaves seeking freedom in Virginia. And they're not living, I don't even know who I'm telling the story about yet.

 it's just all in my mind, but. I'm gonna have to somehow find the stories and give them their voice, but it's got to be true,  you know, as much fact as you can pull together, but, but for documentaries, that's what I love is that when you're watching it, hopefully the filmmaker is telling the, the most truth that's possible of telling their.

Yeah, so that's true. There's, there's a responsibility to present these as accurately and fairly as possible. How do you ensure that you're painting like an honest and respectful picture of, of a subject?

 I always have subject matter experts and not just one or two. And not just a few from like a certain point of view, you always need like subject matter experts on a variety of. You know, fields, whether it's someone who is his, an a historical expert, or who specifically knows that very, very specific story or someone who knows the broad picture story and that's critical.

And then you know, if you're telling a film about the environment, like, for example, the last boat out. That was about a very specific story of, of a family of fishermen watermen down in, in my hometown port, in the Chesapeake bay, in, in Hampton, Rhode, Virginia. And yes, that's important to tell their story, but then I needed to talk to the environmental experts, the environmental experts who can talk to me about the Chesapeake bay about the watershed that's, 64,000 square miles or someone just about the, the James river. So it's just a lot of research that is imperative to tell . A good quality film 

in addition to all of the interviews and you know, footage of the actual. Place or event or whatever, cuz you know, subject matter is different. Obviously if it's historical versus a current, a modern day thing or a current issue. But how, if you're doing stuff that uses archival footage are you getting a lot of that from national archives or different places?

Where are you sourcing a lot of your archival footage and is that part of what makes the DC area great? Cuz we do have things like the national archives right here.

It is so great to have the national archives in your back pocket. I mean, a lot of, you know, so my, my last film was about the hol during the Holocaust world war II in 1940. So I was able to go to the us Holocaust museum in on 14th street in DC, but nowadays. Almost everything's online. That is another beauty of today and difference.

In the past, I've worked on other films, not my own films, but other films for like Cronkite ward or McNeil Le productions. I used to work on projects for them and we would have to Trek down to the archives. Go and acquire the images there. Then, you know, you actually pull the footage and bring it back to the office.

You don't have to do as much of that anymore. Now I can go to British path in Britain and, and access their library or you know, or a library in New York. And I, I really don't think I had to leave my house to access footage for my last film.

Have you ever run into any. Like accessibility issues or like even legal issues about getting something or if you're using, for example, like, news footage that aired or anything, how do you go about getting that and getting the permission to use some of the footage? Or do you just skip that footage? If it's gonna be too tricky?

It's interesting. There have been times where I've acquired or I've found some great footage or maybe a great piece of music where you're trying to clear it. And you write the owners, you write the publishers, you write the composers, you write everybody, you know, and if I'm thinking about music right now, But yeah, if you can't find, get permission, sometimes your lawyer, you know, the your entertainment lawyer that you work.

I, I highly recommend consulting with lawyers when you're doing this and you have you run into these problems. They might recommend, okay. What is your due diligence? Did you write them? Did you email them? Did you call them, do you have records of this? How many times did you reach out to them? Who else did you reach out to?

And if you have a record of all this outreach, you've done, you might be able to use something, but or often you just use something else

 do you have a team that you've put together over time? That's sort of your core team that you work with frequently

I feel like on every single project, you have new people that you bring in because they bring in new, new lights, they shine new ideas into the project. But often I work with Bob canner, who is a phenomenal editor. I can do everything. Okay.  so I string the films out. I string the projects out and then he comes in and makes things sing.

I can. Okay. And then Victoria, Bruce comes in and she's like, wait, why don't you just move that around a little bit when you're so thick in the weeds. She's so great at looking at that big picture and helping you hone in or, you know, and I can shoot, but. There is nothing like a great DP. I love the DPS at Ventana productions.

 So I have my go to team, but but I'm, I love, it's really great to always work with new.

In, in addition I, you know, let's talk a little bit about seltzer, film and video. You created this Production company. I, I guess, yeah. Seems like it's all. Yeah, it seems like it's also a good resource for, for people as well for, for what they might need. So when did you found that and found it and what are its goals?

 I created it because I wanted to make. Video content that would affect change, not just documentaries, but also work with nonprofits and causes that were producing short form content.

So I love doing that. I've been having, so I've had so much fun doing that over the years. I did something with AmeriCorps where we inspired people to. And that it's not just, it was for, it was in honor of Martin Luther king on Martin Luther king day, but inspiring people to volunteer all year round.

And I, I did that. I worked on that with, you know, the team at Ventana productions as well. They're also a great resource, like on my, in my back pocket team, you know, that I work with.

 do you think your process of filmmaking would be much different if you didn't have a seltzer film? What, what would you think be diff different about that?

I think that becoming an LLC is something that just gives you some credibility in the community outside of our filmmaking community, so that a. In AmeriCorps or a you know, the American psychological foundation will be able to hire you as a company. And then they know that you're going to be able to pull it all together from start to finish.

And that's really a fun thing. I'm not just a producer. I'm not just a director or a writer, but I. We'll pull together the budgets. I will put the proposals together, the contracts the, the filming work with my filming team and my editing team. And then produce, you know, deliver the

what are some things that you remember that you learned on one project that you applied to a subsequent.

So, uh, on my last project, I brought on an executive PR an EP executive producer a little bit later in the game. And on our current film, I, we have an EP who came on really early in our, in the, earlier on in the game. That's one thing I learned that is a takeaway that, and if you are looking for an EP one and, and you can have several, that's another piece of advice, you know, you don't need one executive producer having a few and.

They don't have to be in our field at all. That's the other takeaway is what's great is like our current E executive producer. It it's a, a film about lawyers who are helping refugees. She is a seasoned corporate. Immigration lawyer in New York. And she's amazing. She, she doesn't know anything about the field, but she knows about the topic.

She knows about the connections. She knows who to connect us with. She's a great writer. She's a member, she's a full-fledged member of our team and she's teaching us and we're teaching her cuz we're making all of those connections and  it's a lot of fun, a lot of fun to be working with someone like that.

So with each piece, was there. A particular challenge that you remember that you had  overcome or something that, that even went better or easier than you expected on, on each of the pieces.

well with, nobody wants us that women in film is my fiscal agent. It premiered. In early 2020, which was right when the pandemic started and it was such a bummer.

I had so many screenings scheduled and some film festival schedule. I got to go to one film festival only, and then the pandemic hit and it was a real blow. But.

I shifted. And I started doing virtual screenings, a lot of 'em and I loved it. Well, I, you know, I'm sitting here in my home and that's not fun, you know, to always have to be home, cuz I'm such a people person and there is nothing like going to a theater. Seeing your film on the big screen and then having all these people talk to you about your film or about, you know, the top.

Yeah. The topics related to the film. And so we did it, we shifted to zooms. We shifted to zooms and it was fun because I was able to reach people and we all can now reach people there. There's a Portuguese ambassador who was a hero and, and nobody wants us. And. I've been talking to people in Portugal.

I've been doing screenings with people in Portugal, in, in attendance, but otherwise it would've been like the locals, you know, in each location. So that's like a positive spin on something that was really a blow.

Mm-hmm

Um, for that film, same with the, I mean, that happened with our current film too, with the pandemic, but I'm not sure it, it hit us in the middle of product.

So we were in full fledged production filming mode and then the pandemic hit. So we didn't know it honestly, that is going to be part of the film. That's going to make it that much more interesting how the refugees are coping have been having to cope with the pandemic, but it definitely expanded our production time.

 it sounds like sometimes a disadvantage can become an advantage and sometimes it's just, you just gotta pivot and make it work.

Absolutely.

yeah. So, once you feel like a documentary is done, Once you feel like you have it pretty much the way you want it, what is your next step?

Do you take it to festivals next? Is that, is that always the first next step?

So my passion. Is education. So that's my passion. And so I am always thinking about what is the impact that my film is gonna have. So I have been for the, the current film, I'm their impact producer. And as an impact producer, my job is to figure out how that film can reach the most people and make change happen.

So we. Try and get the film into, in front of public policy. You know, people who are changing public policy, how can these people use the film to help affect make their change happen? Even, you know, broader or more specific, you know, go deeper with, with our, our story, using our film as a tool for them or getting it into the schools and the future, you know, the future lawyers, the future.

Refugee advocates. But you asked about film festivals and that's so much fun. And my director is really interested in getting the film into festivals as well as the whole team. And we're gonna hopefully have a lot of fun with that, too. But if you produce a meaningful, timeless, timely, both, you know, film document, I, I just wanna say that, like the people who are listening, if you have a film that you produced 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, five years ago, you might wanna pull it out and see who could be using it now because they can live for a long time, especially if you get distributed by if you have an educational distributor.

So I have an educational distributor. I work with new day films and. The film can live forever. Especially if you create material around to accompany the film, which I'm I'm doing with our current film. And we did with our last.

How did you get involved with new day films? Like how, how do you hook up with a educational distributor?

 someone recommended that I check them out and I went to their site and there's a way to apply. And you fill out it's, it's almost like a grant. You fill out a, a in depth application and then.

without even realizing it.

You're doing a grant you're doing yet another grant. And I had a lot of that content for the grant.

So you just kind of re re repackage it all, but it definitely takes time. And to pull that together and then you're vetted. It's, it's a cooperative that, that company, new day films is a cooperative owned by. Filmmakers. So we have like 300 filmmakers, which is really neat, cuz you're automatically connected to this big family of filmmakers and they vote on your film and then they invite you and then it's a whole process.

 I was curious about, you know, films that, because these are about causes and you want to, you know, incite some change, like do you, do you often do follow ups to see if, if change has happened or, you know, follow up on, on what. For example, like in lasso BGAs maybe down the line, you could see what personal impact some of these people have had on individuals.

Do you plan to do that or is that something that just, if it happens to come up, you, you follow through and add on.

So as the impact producer for Las abogados, we a hundred percent plan to do that. And we plan on doing it on a broad scale, like what's happening with public policy on the big picture, even though the film is really going to focus more on these personal stories and not do much preaching, it really will be focusing on the stories.

 advice, if someone was wanting to get into documentary filmmaking, what, is there any particular advice that maybe you had known going in that you. Would want to impart to people excited to get into the.

I think that you should just look around for the people who inspire you and reach out to them and see if you can get, if they're, if you're not in the field yet, see if you can get an internship or see if you can work for them. And there's just nothing like learning on the job. And actually a lot of these filmmakers that I reached out to in the mid nineties they didn't have job opportunities for me, but I went and I treated them for coffee.

I just met with them and I had informational interviews. And honestly, within a few years, I think I worked for all. If not all of. So that's just something to think about. Just, don't be afraid to reach out to the people that you want to  work for. And don't forget, we've got a lot of amazing filmmakers in this area, so you don't have to go to LA.

You don't have to go to New York. You can, but you can also find an amazing group of filmmakers in our backyard.

 if anyone wants to see any of these documentaries obviously lasso Bo goddess is not out yet. But if they wanted to see last boat out or nobody wants us, how would they go about doing that?

The easiest thing is to go to seltzer film, video.com, no end, just seltzer film, video.com and right on that main page at the top, you can click on each of the films, websites, and.

mm-hmm

Go from there.

excellent. Nick could also learn more about about you and your, and your company there as well. So yeah, I mean, is there is there anything that you wanted to, to talk about that we didn't. That we didn't touch on yet.

One thing I'm kind of excited about and I'd like to share it with you is what I'm doing now is we're doing a new outreach campaign for nobody wants. And that film, which is about refugees that found were hoping to find freedom in the us in 1940. We, one of the heroes, this is a great tip. One of the heroes in the film has  a foundation in his name.

They are sponsoring this fundraiser on go lively. That's a, a platform like GoFundMe and. So they're sponsoring it and  what the campaign is doing is for every, you know, amount we raise, we are actually able to distribute the film to a new school. And the coolest thing that I love, this is what, like rare where my heart is, is People can donate the film in honor of a loved one.

So it doesn't have to be somebody involved in the holo in a Holocaust story, but there are a lot of like Holocaust survivors that were actually donating films to, to specific schools around the country.  

thank you for joining us and, and imparting some great wisdom. Thank you so much for, for talking to us about these three important and impactful films.

Thank you so much, Candace. It was great talking with you.

That's it for this installment of how I got it made. I hope you've gained some valuable insights from our wonderful guests