How I Got It Made (#3)

 I am sitting down with via BIA, an up and coming writer and filmmaker with a colorful multicultural background who has already created.

various successful projects. One of which we're going to discuss today as we chat a bit more about how she got it made. Hi VO, welcome to the podcast.  We are going to talk about these colors. Don't run your 10 minutes short from a few years ago, but first off, just to get to know you a little bit more, how did this whole journey begin for you Did you, I understand you started with writing Is that true? 

is that.

That's right. I started because I had been living in Mexico working as a teacher at an international school and and got pregnant and Really was loving my time down there, but like the salary was not great.

And the place I was living in was like a fifth floor walk up a studio. So not super awesome for like a baby. And I found it at the end of the school year and just didn't have time to find like an alternate job down there or anything like that. So very quickly that summer. To DC, because I was I was finishing my master's of education at George Mason.

And so I was up here for the summer and my partner and I just ended up staying. He got a job. I applied for a bunch of jobs, but I was like six, seven months pregnant. Nobody hired me. So such as life, I was home with my baby and. Just started going back to writing while she was asleep. So I would write personal essays, things that, you know, I sort of dabbled with in the past, but never done anything with it until one day I had an idea that sounded like a movie and I thought, well, why don't I write a movie, I guess.

And two weeks into that, I was like, just sort of dawned on me. Like I had. Lots of plays you know, like in high school and college. And I was like, well, that has its own really specific format, I suppose, that screenwriting does as well. So let me try to figure that out. And I, you know, went to the the interwebs and you know, started reading articles and then went to the library and got up to the books and fast forward to.

10 weeks later. And I had a, my first draft of my first feature film. Yeah. I skipped shorts and straight to feature films feature and and yeah. I just kind of thought, like, I don't know if this is any good, but I know that I did this in 10 weeks while learning the form. So it's agreeing with me on some level when I just sort of took it from there and actually not too long after that.

Got it kind of got involved with, I think because I had seen online that they were hosting. Gordy Hoffman, who is Phillip Seymour Hoffman, his brother and is the guy who runs the blue cat screenplay competition. And he was going to be in DC to to look at people's scripts and to hold a one day workshop.

And so kind of like at the end of that year I sent in, that script and,  signed up for that workshop. And that was through. With hosted it. Yeah. And that's how I got involved with that's awesome. So how is writing one of your passions? Sounds like you would do that regardless.

We're writing before and you're continuing to write now. So is that one of your first and foremost passion or? Yeah, I mean, I think I really have had the storyteller. Bugs since I was little So as you've been, becoming more of a director filmmaker in addition to writer and all of that as well, is there any like particular influences that you have, or any like writers or directors or creators that are inspirations to you that you're either trying to emulate a bit or.

We're just, I mean, sure. I mean, for sure, like I'm always really, I'm always really impressed with you know, Charlie Kaufman's work. I think he's super imaginative. He thinks a lot about memory and. I don't know. There's some shame in there and I think we all relate to that. He's very imaginative.

I just, I like a lot of his stories and he also lived on long island, I believe for a time, which I did too. And maybe there's something just disgraceful in the water that makes this crazy. I don't know. But I really liked his work. I really liked Anya Subotica the the. French new wave director who went on to do narrative narrative fiction, also documentary features, shorts, everything.

 She was always so curious. And she was always so short. Like me, she and I are both very short. So I have to, like, I am not even five, two. So, you know, when I see another short director or filmmaker out there. I see you. I see you. And I'm with you. But yeah, there's, there certainly are a lot of great people. And I know like with my first film I definitely was thinking about a specific kind of like spike Lee shot at one point, which is actually like a Melbourne band.

Shot in a sense. And I know, like in my more recent movie, I was thinking about a shot from psycho Alfred Hitchcock, even though not the same, you know, I think you pull from a lot of different audiences. So there's always great inspirations right now. I really am loving Mikayla Cole who did have me destroy you.

And I had years before scene chewing gum, and I just thought. It just, she's brilliant and she's kind of like doing it all and I think she's amazing. Yeah. And it seems like from the projects that I've been able to research a little bit on what you've done so far, that you you kind of lean into comedy a bit as well.

Is that something that you're trying to stay in a lane that way, or do you like kind of going all over between drama, comedy, drama, D do you have like a scifi or thriller in your future or anything like that? I think my, my deal is I lean towards comedy and drama and I'm trying to learn a lot more about straight comedy at this point.

Like I'm taking a sketch writing class as we speak. And like I'm learning a lot about that. I write, I think, left to my own devices. I write a lot of dromedy. But I think I talk about a lot of the same subjects. You know, kind of mean towards political, socioeconomic race, gender, like a lot of heavy themes, but I try to make it accessible.

And weirdo kind of silly, funny. So, I think I could probably do any genre. But I think it would always kind of feel like my voice but definitely I lent, I kind of lean towards drama and comedy at this point. Yeah. Well, speaking of dromedy I know that the word weed, let's start talking about the short that we're going to focus on for this.

So people can, we can dive a little more into the specifics of how it got made. So for listeners who haven't seen it, talk to us a little bit about, and give us a little overview of what these colors don't run is about.

 my log line from it is the memory of a first communion gone down the shitter. So it's the story of a little girl, a Latina who she's eight years old and it's her first communion day.

And she is made to dress up in her white dress and take all the beautiful first communion photos. And she is told that she may not get her dress dirty, that she needs to sit still and pray essentially, and study the Bible until she goes to church. To mass and she may not eat anything because she needs to keep her dress perfect.

And she sneaks out of the house and goes to like a local convenience store and buys a whole lot of shit that could potentially stay in her dress. And she tries to color careful, but it's hard. It's very hard. And then she sort of starts straying a little further. From God or mothers will.

Yeah. I don't want to give anything away necessarily, but there's, it's kind of also loosely a story about like a learning or discovering where an origin or a love for tattooing might've come. D do you have any tattoos? I I don't, I've always been really I've always loved tattoos. And yet I am one of the least adorned people.

I know, like I basically don't wear jewelry. I don't wear hair clips. I don't, you know, I'm pretty claim. I don't know what my deal is. I'm a huge art fan, but I, myself do. Like lean into the art of media. So clearly if you put hair clip in that category, I don't know. I mean, I have hair clips and everywhere in them, but I really generally do not wear anything.

So, but like when I was in college, I actually did like a paper on, you know, tattooing. Oh, the old style, like, Mountie, New Zealand tattooing. And I'll just like then interviewed a lot of people about their tattoos. I just think there's so much storytelling and so much memory inside all these tattoos.

So I've always felt very strongly that it's so beautiful and so interesting, but I myself have never gotten. Yeah. So was some of that, your inspiration for writing this what you had learned before, and also you mentioned the sort of memory, the memories of it are all, this is kind of, the format is essentially like a memory remembering an origin.

 Well, by the time I wrote this I had gotten into a Sundance lab for Latino screenwriters called the Latino screenwriting project. And so it was for a feature film that I had written called the radish baby, which is a magical realist story about a man who is a garnish.

And hates children and it's about to become a father. And unfortunately he and his wife lose the baby and in his grief, his hands just sort of start working in the way that they know. And he carves a baby out of a radish and that radish comes to life. And and so that, that screenplay had gotten.

To a Sundance lab. And I had not made anything until that. And to that point as a director, I hadn't shot any shorts of my own. And I just kept hearing from my advisors, you need to start shooting things. You need to start getting your stuff and your voice out there. So, some months later there was an opportunity for like, a incubator, a shorts incubator.

That I threw my kind of hat in. And although I didn't kind of win the money to make the short, I was one of the, like kind of the final 10 projects or something. I had by then gotten together team. And I decided I would shoot in LA because this was like a story about a Mexican American family.

And I thought this is. You know, a good place to shoot. And I, you know, there was somebody who came on as producer, who she had actually ties, her husband had been in the same lab. I had like a year or two before. And so I was able to get on some really great collaborators. But when I didn't get into the incubator, when that fell apart, Kind of like the whole the whole collaboration.

And at that point I asked one of my Sundance advisers who lived in Austin. If he would consider producing it because I knew again, Austin had a lot of Mexican-Americans and I thought this is great. And it would have the, kind of like the right type of locations. And you know, my advisor, Michael Tolley, he was extremely solid guy.

He's from Maryland from the Baltimore area. And I just thought. This would be amazing if he said yes, and he's like, I never do this. I don't produce anything, but I'm going to say yes. And I, you know, just really lucked out because he's has a lot of Goodwill in his communities. He's a very, he's very beloved.

And so a lot of people, he introduced me to a lot of different people who ended up saying yes to the project. And I was very lucky to work with some really amazing collaborators out in Austin and get some really. Kind of beautiful people in, on, on the cast. Yeah, because I was going to say how as for people listening that are curious about how you even put a team together and how you find those collaborators it sounds like it was connections and then how they know and everything.

But yeah, it was a lot of it. You know, one person knew another person kind of deal. Or how did how did it originally start? Like who was your first person that you kind of locked in for this project? Led to others? Well, you know, I started with Michael Tolley as producer and  he then asked if Wilson Smith would come on.

So Wilson also lived in Austin and he had very recently just Helped produce a film called Cretia So he,  came on gratefully and between he and Mike telly, You know, they had a lot of people that they had worked with locally.

 Michael had kind of sent me a few cinematographers to look at. And there was somebody that I went to working with named UTA Yamaguchi who had a really beautiful sensibility. He was very sweet and easy to talk to them person. And I just trusted him. I thought he seemed really great.

And just, we just had a lot of like coffees and little lunches with people and kind of over a period of two weeks. I flew out to Austin. And for two weeks we set up the film two and a half weeks maybe, and finally just shot it. So that by three weeks the film was done and I flew home. Oh, wow.

That's yeah. I mean, it's a short, but that sounds short. Yeah. Yeah. I was a little concerned for sure, but I kind of went into it just thinking, oh, these guys are so, so well-liked in the community and they're so, so connected and I just think. This is going to be okay. so if someone has. Trying to make something. And they're daunted by the idea of a whole huge project that is undoubtedly going to cost a lot of money. How did you go about trying to get some funding and what could someone do to look for how to, be starting on a big project like this?

Once I had the project put together for Los Angeles. I started looking into grants and things of that nature. And I would say like in December I shot in April, but I would say in December, if not January I applied for a local grant through Arlington let's see, what is it called?

Arlington county. It's a, it's an Arlington county grant for artists. So I applied for an individual artists grant of $5,000 and was hopeful about that. And I also applied for a grant production grant through the love, your shorts, film festival for $500. I applied for a few other grants that I did not get.

But I did get those two. So that helped quite a bit. And had money that I'd saved up. And so I had probably,  I don't know, 15 grand or something that I was able to kind of start putting towards. Kind of like the production phase or something like that. Maybe 10 grand.

I can't remember. And then  took my time in post because I had to kind of put myself on posterity and had to slow things down because it was a lot of money and I had to figure out a way to like, kind of make back some of that money. So I had a little bit of a slow post but I was able to, like after seven months.

Yeah. Not buying anything and not going out, I'm working a little bit more and stuff like that sacrificing. So, you know, I was able to finish it. But yeah, I mean, it is truly though, you know, like if the Duplass brothers have taught us anything it's that you can film yourself doing a weird little short where you're just trying to record an outgoing message for.

Phone machine back when those things were around. You know, and when Robert Rodriguez, that kind of like rebel without a film crew feeling where you're just doing all of it. Hats off to you, my friend, but he got like a kidney infection or some shit like that. I mean, he ran himself down.

No, not hats off. You worked to collaborate. Robert seems to have worked out in the end. You knew for a while though, but yeah. Me at this point, at least. Yeah. that's, yeah it's a lesson to those starting out. Sometimes it's just, it's a lot of sacrifice and figuring it out from multiple avenues.

 So then do you remember  when this project felt like it was actually happening,  as cause it was an idea and you wrote it and then you started assembling a team, but do you remember that moment of feeling like, okay, this is it, we're doing it. We're actually doing. I mean, yeah. I mean, I think I wrote it around September.

And then, you know, it, I got so far. First incubator, but it fell apart. And I was like, well, it's not happening. And I really felt like, okay, this is not happening for a long time. But after like a few days of saying that to myself, I was like, dude, you have a look book. You have like these things you could like actually send them to people and see if they would be interested.

See if there's somebody you. Want to do it. And I just thought about, and I was like, oh, Michael Tolley is the best. And like, he lives in the right location. He has absolutely you know, the kinds of connections and the Goodwill in the community that I think like this could work. I want to be able to go somewhere where, you know, I can find a lot of a lot of Mexican American actors to do this.

You know, film to cast, this is all perfect. I've been to Austin, I love Austin. So I,  sent it off to him and, he took a few days to think it over, but I mean, yeah. You know, it, that worked out. So, I mean, I think that was maybe February. And then we shot in early April.

 So you shot this on film, correct? Mostly on films. So it's every part of the film that is the memory from the past, that's on a super 16. And we did actually get we did get support from Kodak as well.

So, they gave us like a 50% off deal. So shout out to Dan Hubble for hooking that up. And I met Ann Hubble through the STO story. So she was one of the kind of mentor advisors at that lab. And she works for, she works or she did work for Kodak on the side. At one point she was working for Kodak.

So she's kind of got that hookups. So what happened was when I didn't even think about shooting on film at first. But when I got out to Austin you know, Michael Tolley had shot on film before and UTA was really interested. And shooting on film. And I can't remember how much he had shot on film, I suppose he had at that point, but it's still big rarity.

And they were like, well, what do you think about shooting on film? And I was like, oh, for sure.  I had taken. Like a manual film, developing class in college. And I was like, oh, I freaking love that. Yeah. But isn't it expensive? You know? And they were like, well, maybe we can figure something out.

And Michael also happened to know and humble as well. So all of this stuff really helps here's, the other thing about in filmmaking is if you can find a piece of the puzzle that will make the other collaborators excited. Like we get to shoot on film for this.

They might be more willing to come on board, this like little project that's, you know, not paying what they're worth. And it might also give the film a better chance and festivals moving forward. So try to think ahead of time what those little things are, make your own little personal checklist and see which of those things you can put in place before you shoot a damn thing.

Because that can help you in the long run. So, what was the casting process? Like? I know this is a all female cast, which is great. And yeah, it sounds like you wanted it to be specifically you said Mexican American.

Yeah. Yeah. It was a story that That sort of stemmed from the feature film. And that was a Mexican American family. So I took one of the characters from that film and sort of gave her own origin story. And so I wanted to kind of be faithful to that, which is why I was like, okay, Mexican American.

But yeah, we We did casting with Sarah Dowling in, in, and Austin. And she's done a lot of local casting for some of those like, real Texas kind of films, like, like Terrence Malick kind of stuff. So she's done a lot of the like locals casting things. And so, She went through her role at X, but she also put out a call and we had a casting day.

And I was just so shocked and thrilled about like people who came from all over Texas to audition for this,  short that really was paying like the lowest kind of possible. I don't even remember like $150 a day kind of at more less, if you didn't have lines. I mean, it was. Was not fair. It never is.

Like when you're making these like little shorts and you're not, you know, in any guilt or anything, but but I think there's a real hunger for these movies and these roles. And there just are not a lot of roles that come around like this for people. So we had people from five hours away or more coming around me with people.

Laredo and people from Dallas and people from Corpus Christi and San Antonio and Houston come all the way to Austin. And it was just really heartening to see all these beautiful faces. And also, as you said really proving that there needs to be more. More roles like, like this, if they were so excited about it coming from so far, but yeah, that's great.

You cast a wide net and sound, it looks like you got some great people for this.  was there anything just overall on looking back on the production of this, that surprised you as being easier than you were expecting? Oh gosh. I mean, I guess, I guess on a certain level, like, I think just getting Michael and Wilson on board because they were so they're so connected, they, there was a lot of people that they could introduce me to.

And there was a lot of people who were just extremely experienced and good people to work with. So this idea of just like having those things line up, but also just having a lot of people audition to,  That's when we got in this really nice girl, Maggie, Celeste Nayla con two and Yesenia Garcia and Lisa SWAT is we got an, all these really wonderful actresses.

And they were just so helpful, like if I needed clothing because I didn't have like a big budget, like I had the budget for the dresses. But I didn't have a lot of budget for everything else. They were chipping in. With their wardrobes or,  my, my makeup artist she was helping do sort of like wardrobe double-duty.

So she kept an eye on, on, on the clothes and help with that. Or we almost ran out of film stock. And our second AC, Rachel Barton said, I have some ends in my freezer. And actually my roommate would probably be psyched as hell. If you would take them away from me, like those are yours to use. If you run out.

Gratefully, we did not run out, but on the second day we were like, we're gonna run out. So, you know, all just the Goodwill aspect of it, people chipping in just was really like a beautiful thing. And I just kind of still think about those aspects. It's my favorite thing, the collaboration, and when it's humming along, it's like, oh my God, I'm in a beautiful artistic community at either.

You know, that, that is said so often that, you know, it's the project, but it's more so the team and everyone you're working with and it's the experience and meeting those people and working with those people that tends to last longer as the memory than the actual story you're telling.

So yeah, and then sort of the flip of that coin. What would you consider a, probably the hardest obstacle that you had to overcome to get this done?  I did have a lot to learn about post-production and I still am learning a lot. I'm very new to filmmaking. So I think just coming on and helping something that, you know, that's a steep, that's a steep learning curve and I'm still in that learning curve, but it's, I love it so much that Regardless of the steepness, like, you know, I wanna stay with it and just hope that I, if I treat people with kind of genuine affection and and respect as a collaborator that, that will be okay for kind of some of the things that I'm still learning technically or otherwise.

So I, you know, I think it's, I think it's a hard process. I think it's a hard process and there's just a lot to, even if you're really gifted, and you're really technically savvy, you're going to have people stepping on and off and you just have to pivot all the time. Right. So. It's, you know, it's difficult, but it's, it is part of it.

So gear up my friends. Yeah. And it sounds like you, you did learn quite a bit on this piece, even with the multiple hats that you were wearing, but in the fact that it was digital and film, you had that experience right out of the gate. That's kind of special. And then in the end it got picked up by HBO.

So there was a whole legal aspect and its deliverables aspect that I think, yeah I wanted to actually talk to you about that. Now after everything was Don shooting and you were done with all the post-production stuff how did you go about trying, were you putting it into festivals and all of that stuff?

How did you end up. Getting it out there to the world because yes, as we heard it, HBO picked it up, which is awesome. So, well, let me demystify some things for a second and tell everybody that I sent the film in and it was not completely finished. Hoping like somebody would still say yes. So the first round I sent out, I don't know, maybe 10 or 12 festivals with the film that.

Probably, I mean, I would say it was like a locked picture, but there was a lot of elements in posts that were not part of it. It had placeholder music, it had you know, none of the, I think effects were done. There were several things that were not done. It did not get in anywhere. Zero people, zero people.

I said yes to that. So I think for a new filmmaker if you're, especially, if you're trying to get into a festival with like a decent profile year against a majority finished films here, you're putting your thing in with thousands and thousands of finished films. So it's going to be hard for the program.

I think to say yes to you, unless you have a body of work or they know you and they say, oh, I totally trust this person. I know there's their tastes. I know their style. It's going to be rad. So if you're like me and you have like, literally nothing to show you need that because once I did finish the film and sent it in, you know, I started getting into, you know, a lot of festivals.

So I. You know, I just kind of tried to figure out what are festivals that might work. I sent into festivals that focus on the Latino stories. And I asked Mike and Wilson and some other people who worked in the film what they recommended and they gratefully also had a few festivals where they were able to get any waivers.

So we sent him to a bunch of places. And and yeah, and it just started getting picked. Once I sent him the final, it started getting picked up and one of the first festivals I went to was the Latino the New York Latino film festival. And that was just like so special for me because You know, I'm from New York.

My family is Puerto Rican from New York city. And so to be able to go back there and be in a festival. Just surrounded by Latinos and stories about Latinos and like in this giant synopsis and Chelsea that had like, I don't know, 350 seats, 500 seats. I can't remember it was packed. It was fully packed.

And I looked out into the sea of people and it was almost all visually what looked like to me, that the nose and I was just like, holy shit. I'm. I'm around my people they're enjoying this. Yeah. It was such a, it was such a huge win.  So definitely like look into festivals that, you know, HBO sponsors or maybe some other people sponsor because they do have like, you know, 12 shorts a year that they're going to purchase or something like that.

And I think, you know, mine was. One of the only ones that had like more comedic elements in it. So I think, and it was kind of family-ish I think that helped. Plus, you know, there were all female and let the Latina cast and, you know, it was just. There were there, there were certain things about it while not like, the most perfect movie as I was first-time filmmaker. There were certain things about it that made it a little bit easier to say us, a lot of great selling the wave.

Yeah. So what are some of your next projects? Cause you said this was one of your first, this was your first like finished This was the first thing I directed first directed. Yeah. And so I have a, I have a new film that I just finished gosh, November. And so I just sent it out to festivals in December.

So I I'll start hearing yeah, November, December, I'll start hearing, I'll start hearing pretty soon where I'm getting. You know, kind of screen, I guess. So that's this year. And the, the, the one that I directed is called post comedy. And actually that has another women in film tie in. I. I applied for a grant, a camera and lighting package grant.

That was, it was the first year that they were doing this a few years ago. And it was for films with a, like a, some sort of a social justice focus. And so I submitted to that and and DC camera and. I looked it over and gave me the, okay. So, I was very lucky again. I was able to get again great cameras and another Ari.

I had an RA for that, that short, that was on HBO. This one is like got an Alexa mini and, and DC camera just like gave us everything on our wishlist. I worked with a really very gifted cinematographer named  who's who's local. Yeah, that was, that was shot in DC, right? Yeah. That was shot in DC and and Northern Virginia.

And yeah, so we, we, we just had great, a great package to work with and we had a really good gaffer who had some more supplies to names. Taylor rash and he, he brought a bunch of stuff when we had other great female grips that did some really good work too, with the lading. Awesome. So, those haven't come out yet, but but these colors don't run came out a few years ago.

If someone wanted to see it now, is there a way that they could see. You're going to have to contact me, my friend. You don't have anything available to rent or purchase, or I actually haven't looked, I haven't even looked into that at this point. I've just been so busy focusing on like kind of writing some new projects and and working on these other shorts and taking some classes that I haven't even, I haven't even started to think about that, but yeah, I, I guess I would really love it to, to be picked up somewhere else or.

Just stream it somewhere. Really good. So. So yeah. If anybody wants to contact me and give me a heads up about, about some good places I'm listening. But before we wrap up and people can find out how to get to know a little bit more about your work and yourself is there any That you would like to give to any aspiring filmmakers about how to have a piece of advice that, that maybe you wish you had you know, when you were getting into this, I mean, I don't know that I'm going to say anything new, but I'm just going to tell you I believe in you, I think your voice is important.

I went into this because I think that there are. Needs to be an expansion of, of different types of stories out there. We need to see a diversity in, in the roles that are being portrayed out there and expansion of, of roles so that people aren't pigeonholed. We need diversity behind the camera. We need diversity on the page.

We need people from all different backgrounds.  wherever you come from, whatever you look like, whatever your story is, you can get into this. I grew. Like poor. I grew up with not a lot of different opportunities. I didn't go to a great school. I, you know, didn't have a lot of money to make this, if it took me time to get some money together, but it was important to me.

And if this is important to you, do it, stick with it. It's so rewarding. It's really can be really hard and you might have some hard. In there. But try to attract people to you that are really into the story, if at all possible, if they seem excited and they're like down for the discovery game and they want to help just be with those people, but always respect them, always give them your attention and your love.

Try to make something beautiful together. That's, what's important.  So if anyone. To know more about, you and what you're working on and upcoming stuff. What is the best way to see that On Instagram, I'm on via that's via underscore dear D a R like darling, darling.

And on Twitter, I'm at. Via Deere. There's no underscore anywhere. And my website is via bia.com. You can find me there, hit me up. Let's be friends. Don't get two weeks. I don't dig that I like weird, but it depends. So there is a line. Yeah. Also just shout out Jack's bitus who is who is  she's my bestie out there and she, she she produced with me co-wrote with me and, and start and post comedy.

She is a whiff member. She is a beautiful person in the world. And if you can make films with your friends, like I was able to make films with jacks or other collaborators I worked with before, like Robin Noonan prize and Alison Bauer and lots of other people try to do that. Try to try to find your people.

And if, if they're cool, hold tight to them and keep going. 

I'm sitting down with DC-based filmmaker, Harold Jackson. The third today, Harold has produced, written and directed multiple films, documentaries, and series. And today we're going to discuss one of his most recent features as we delve a little bit more into how he got it made. So welcome, Harold, and thanks so much for joining us on our new podcast.

So yeah, for first of all, we're going to talk today about your your.  the forgettable life of Liam white. 

Yeah, 

first kick it off with just a T to get to know you a little bit more before we get into the film itself how did you get into filmmaking? And when did, when did you begin really leaning into wanting to be a writer and director and decide that this was your path?

Yeah, I, I, I probably was always a filmmaker. I don't remember. Any wanting to do anything else with any sort of passion except for baseball and filmmaking. So I've probably always been a filmmaker like my family, I, I only have one brother, but I have a very large extended family.

So I have a lot of cousins and uncles and stuff like that. And and we would always. In one particular place. And one of the ways that we sort of bond as a family was to watch a movies, our TV. And if you, if you imagine of those, those old pictures you saw, when a family sort of gathered around the radio, We were like that at probably my grandmother's house.

And there weren't enough seats for everyone and you sort of kids are on the floor and we, and we'd watch like the Cosby show or, or, or Martin or something like that. And I just think that. I'm, I'm a relatively quiet person, but my family isn't, they're pretty, they're pretty boisterous.

So, they're the talk to the TV type of people. So, just being as being young and seeing what films and TV and getting good storytelling can do to people was something that always excited me. 

So you are a writer, director producer. You, you do a lot. I know you've got background in lots of other parts of it as well, editing and whatnot. So, is there any particular like director that might be, or a filmmaker that is an inspiration to you, someone you kind of hope to emulate, or do you want to just be your own unique thing or combo of people?

Yeah, I I'm

I only, I only have one really director that I, that I sort of. Gravitate towards and what they do the rest. I like certain movies. And I think

With everyone, myself included w some films, you hit a home, run, some films, you strike out some films, it's a line drive. Good enough to get by.

So it's no, no filmmaker has a perfect catalog. Right. So, I really gravitate towards certain films. Rather than particular directors, but the one director that I do identify with the most, I think is Sydney limit. And I just, I just like it. I just, something about his style speaks to me.

It's very it can be very over the top and it's, and it's, and it's, lot of music and a lot of just characters yell at each other and that sort of stuff still is. 

so you like a sort of loud, vibrant musical type things. 

A big let's go, let's go big. Let's get less. 

All right, well, let's get right into it then. So for listeners who don't know what the movie is about, tell us a little bit more about Liam white and briefly.

so now that I gave you all that information, Liam, what is a very small film? It's about a, a writer who is sort of the synopsis is a writer who's diagnosed with a terminal illness goes on his journey to try to figure out who he was as a person and, and, and sort of reconnect with other people that helped mold him, for better or for worse, but really what the film is about is it's about that transition in life that we all go through, where we have to sort of get.

And give up something to become the new person. So kind of, if you want to go somewhere, you've never been, you have to do something you never done is that kind of idea

played out through his illness. Right? So it's really about transitioning and. And and, and what you have to do to get rid of it and in a previous part of your life and start a new part of your life.

So with that said, it sounds like it could be a downer, but it's not, it's actually pretty funny. I think, I think it's pretty funny. It has a bit of a holiday feel to it, a bit of a Christmas E touch to it. And it's a lot, there's a lot of music. There's a lot of it's a very odd house-y kind of film, but it's still sort of, it can still sort of get down in the dirt with humor.

So it's, it's, it's a really interesting sort of take on the subject matter and just, and it, and it turned out to be a really fun and interesting. 

Was there a particular inspiration for doing this story at this time or cause I know you've done a lot of different types, a lot of different stories through your different films. 

I'm all over the place. 

Did anything bring this subject to to light or anything that you wanted to lean into?

Yeah.

I'm, I'm I'm a bit all over the place, so I really right where I am at the particular time. So if you want to. Learn about me. You can probably just watch my films and you won't even have to talk to me. You'll know, you'll know exactly lighter. But this particular film, I was in a bit of a transition stage in my life. I wrote it I can't remember. I wrote it right before the pandemic or during it, but we shot it during the pandemic. and and you see that,

in the film we made reference to it and where the world was at that particular time. But I was, I was really in a transition stage in my life. I was I was, I was recently married and sort of trying to figure out where I was going to go next in life.

So it, it was sort of saying. I mean all, all films that any writer writes should have a piece of them in it. So I think if anything in it, it was that feeling of, of uncertainty moving from one stage of your life, to the next and having to, sometimes you romanticize the old life and then sometimes you realize how, how much you need to move past it.

And it's that sort of back and forth that people do when it's time. And it's time to move on from something and move into something.

It's sounds like it was right at the start of the pandemic, if not a little on the cusp of it. Was this your first feature done in the pandemic or first project that you had to deal with working in a pandemic?

I did some camera, if I did a few commercials now I did some commercials after it during the pandemic, but after shooting. After shooting leave and why, but I think Liam, why was the production? It was, it was, it was at that stage where w w like Hollywood had shut down and people were kind of like, we're just going to try to do it.

And there were a handful, is that, that early stage where a handful of filmmakers in LA were we're, we're, we're saying, we're just going to be safe and try to in work. We can't, we can't start, and and I, and I sort of said, you know what? They're right. So we took all the precautions.

We, we did the tests, we did the the mass, we wiped everything else. So we did the whole drill to keep people safe, but at some point. You, you, you, you have to, you have to just push through these sort of things and come out on the other end. So it was, it was

it was interesting. I didn't have time to be to think about it because there was so much that needed to be done.

Just making a film in general.  So when did you realize that this was officially underway and starting, and you were making this film as opposed to it just being an idea of, of an upcoming one or written or whatever, do you like, do you remember day one or what you considered it?

So on that note, I don't kind of remember Dave one, but I do know there, there is a point in the process, even when I'm writing there there's projects that I've written that I know. I'm pro I'm not going to make this it's too big or, or it's not big enough. But it's, but I, but I liked the process of creating a story from beginning to end and I always make it? a point to finish what I start.

So I'll do that regardless of if I'm going to shoot it or not, but there usually comes a point in the writing process where I know, okay, I'm going to make this movie and I can see it. And

so I knew I was going to make it when the script was there. And I knew that

The world was changing. I knew where I was financially.

I knew the type of money that I could scare up to make a film. So it was really inside of this sort of vacuum of what I, what I could, what I could bring to the table, what I could create and what I could do. And it all sort of, came together. 

So you you tend to write, produce and direct a lot of your a lot of your pieces. Is that out of sort of necessity and the indie film world, or is it your choice to have full creative control over things by being the writer and director?

Early in my career was it was my choice to have full control over things. I want to do it my way, et cetera, et cetera. But the older you get, the more you you, you, you still want to make work that, that, that feels good to you, but sometimes you want to just sort of not have to worry about everything.

And sometimes he doesn't want to, I, I I've, I've taken jobs where I just had to direct him. And you're in, and I'm in service of someone else's sort of vision. And th there's nothing wrong with that. I've had a great time doing that and I've been successful doing that as Well but for an indie producer, 

If you don't make your own work, like my phone very seldom rings. Right. And, and I don't think it's it, it doesn't ring because everybody's trying to do their own thing. So no one has time to come get you and come save you income 

And it's you got to create able to do your, you gotta be able to do your own. Work and believe in yourself enough to get out there and do it. And I do. I'm very confident in my ability as a filmmaker. so it's never a question I never get shaken when I, when I realized I'm taking on a new project.

But it is a matter of if I, if, if I don't do this, then I'll be waiting 2, 3, 4, or five years for someone to, to come get me.

so you're kind of impatient. You want to, you want to get it done?

Yeah, it's not what I want to do. I want to, I want to be actively, I want to actively be telling stories. So I don't, I don't want to wait three years to make a movie and then another three and make another one.

That's just not a lot. One. I live in my life. 

So. Do you plan to keep pushing forward, then it sounds like with a lot of your personal projects, still, still taking on all of those roles within that, but then still feathering in ones where you're just the writer or just the director. 

Somewhat. I'm completely open to  doing for high work. I have no problem with that in in, in, I give everything I do a hundred percent but my team is getting a little bigger and a little more proficient and efficient with each project.

So I'm really getting into a space where. It's easier for me to make films. Now, the machine is running better and everyone is sort of starting to see through the matrix of how to do it. And, and it's, and it's, and it's helping the end product. So with each film I'm bringing on one other, one more person or two, two more people to help make the process a little easier for me.

And then, and then in term, make our chances of success a lot easier.

So it sounds like you have a solid team of people that you work with over and over again. And these films have like kind of a core group that you collaborate. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got some, some core people in each film, you, you, you lose one or two, you gain two more, it's, it's the business. But Yeah.

I have a sort of a core team that kind of gets me now and I kinda know what. Where, where I'm trying to go and what I'm doing and what I'm thinking.

And even when they don't understand it, I think they believe in me enough to know that I don't, I don't know what he's doing, but it always gets done. So whatever. 

Yeah. Well, and as we know, productions are all team efforts on this particular film who do you think might be a, like an NVP and one of the people that got it helped you get it done, where if they weren't a part of this, it might not have happened.

So a couple of people, I mean, it has. To sort of single out people because, cause I think it was definitely a super team effort and we had brought in bigger actors than we had ever done before during the pandemic. And it was just like it was, everybody's sort of stepped up in that way.

So I'm really proud of the team for that. But my producer Wendy Anderson, she she's been great and she's been. Ride or die for me for a long time. And we've done, I think maybe three or four projects together. And I think that the synergy is there now and we kind of get it and we're moving on to the next, we're moving on to the next stage of where we can.

We're we're past the stage where we can get things done. Now we're moving to the stage where we're taking it up a notch, and I'm really excited about. And then another producer aligned producer that I had that sort of came in last minute and saved the day. Her name is Kyoko Rhodes, and she was very helpful in the process.

So you have people that you use time and again, on the production side, you also work with some of the same actors multiple times. Do you write with those actors in mind now for some of your characters or do you pretty much do the character and then think about casting after.

Sometimes, sometimes I ride for some, some people that I knew. So it's far as Liam white. I wrote wrote the film with Sean in mind. Actually that character was part of a series of shorts or short series that are Romine series that are wrote. And then ultimately when I finished writing the series, I just realized that, okay, this isn't that good. I mean, it was fun, but this is, this is not going to cut it. So I scrapped the series, but there was one sort of side, side character in the series named Liam that for some reason, I really liked that case. So then I switched him out of that series and gave him his own, gave him his own spinoff 

So a, an unforgettable character from a series became the lead in a story with a title about him being forgettable. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Okay. Well, it's, it's amazing how things happen. 

yeah. 

So in terms of your particular style for filmmaking and everything, if you were to ask someone on your team, what your style is, what do you think they would say?

I don't know. That is a very interesting question. I don't know. And part of it is because I've been trying to, I've been kind of finding myself over the years. So if you look back through my catalog, I think you may reference to it at the beginning of the interview. Like it's a bit all over the place and I'm sure if someone watches it watches them, they'll say, okay, there's a through line. And the through line is this.  it's definitely the core of it all is drama, but I think morphing into a place where it's the drama is a lot larger and a lot more exciting.

So in an action sense or like production value or deep, bigger stories.

And this and this at this stage, it's a production value a deal. 

Okay.

And I think I'm, I think I'm becoming closer to sitting limit as I get older, 

You're, you're evolving to where you want to be. It all takes time. It's all a process.

Yeah. And you start off early and you, and you you started, you started doing all these things to try to make it make sense, right? First, she started writing whatever it is. You feel like writing and then nobody watches It So you start writing what you think people want, and then nobody watches it.

Then you start trying to mix the two and nobody watches it. And then eventually you land on, if I'll just do what I want to do, and then ridiculously people start watching it, 

it can sense the authenticity if you actually wanting to do. 

Right. 

So it sounds like you do a lot and you do them pretty quickly back to back. So this isn't your first piece and it definitely won't be your last, it sounds like it's. So, do you focus on more than one project at a time or when you're in it, are you solely focused on that or are you kind of still wrapping up the previous and looking ahead to the next.

I I try not to mix projects, so I would try not to, once I start one, I try to go from beginning to end with it. At the finish line. And then, in the back of my mind, I'm floating what my next thing is going to be, but I try not to be producing a new project while I'm in the edit of a previous one.

So I stay away from that kind of stuff. 

Is it the same with writing where you just kind of finish one project and then move on or have you, do you have a few things started at the same time? Okay.

no, no, no. I usually the film that I'm producing now was probably the first time in a long. That I had to put a film down to produce another film a  thriller came up and people were excited to do it. So I jumped on it, but I was probably about 70% through a script that I had planned on producing.

And so, but I jumped on that film and I did that film and it turned out really nicely if I'm called Gaslight. And so I had to put the script down, but I recently picked it up and I'm moving into production on that phone March 

Now you're quite accustomed to the pandemic production life. It sounds like

Yeah.  like every, at the end of every project, you hope that the world is going to be bagged normal for the next one. And it's just not. So you, you, you build it into the budget, you take the precautions, you be safe, you try to just take everyone's health into consideration at all turns.

But you can't let it stop you 

So what, is there any particular thing that you learned from this movie that you hope to take with you to utilize in a future?

From Liam white, you know what I learned? I made Liam at a time where I just needed to work.  there was a bit of a lull between. The L the film before that and Liam white, and I was just, I need to work. I need to express myself in some way. So I wrote a film that was capable of being pulled off.

it's doing really well. And it's resonating with people and people are people that watch it. They're contacting me out of the blue, random people in there. Telling me how much they liked it. If it's not what the character went through, it's the sort of the texture of it.

Or if it's not the texture, some music or something like it's resonating with people. And when I realized was, is when I made Lynn white, I was, I was really like, nobody's going to watch this, right? It's in theory, you've seen this movie already. A writer has a terminal illness and he writes, he writes his best book or whatever, and it's not that.

But as far as the synopsis goes, you seen that movie, but it's totally different. But I think I was just like, you know what? Just, just do what you want, make a good film and, let the chips fall where they may, and it's been my most successful film. It was the film that I sort of let myself go, let myself be as free as possible sense.

Probably my first film that sort of people notice, which was last night. And between now and last night, it was always some other thing I was thinking about, whether it be, oh, I'm going to do an extra film or, oh, this is a timely film or whatever. This was just something I did because I just wanted to express myself and, and it's been my most successful for me. 

So do you think you're going to be. Trying to do more authentic films, just that you really, really want to do moving forward.

Yeah. I think what I've learned over the years is you can't halfway do anything so you can't halfway sell out. You can't halfway be authentic. You can't halfway do anything. So if you're going to have to go full steam, you might as well go full steam doing what you, what you want to do now with that said I'm I'm I'm also a businessman.

And I also realize that this is not a hobby. So people, these films need to make money, especially now that I've evolved to a place where I have investors and, and people I need to pay and all this sort of stuff. So these films need to make me. But I think so I take that into consideration when I'm, when I'm casting and when I'm writing and when I'm doing all this, but when it comes time to get on set and do the thing and do the thing,  I want to do what I think is Right. And what I feel is right versus. Think about money all the time. I mean, they got, they got professionals, they got guys in suits with no ties and slick hair. They can figure out how to sell a movie. I just need to make a good one.

Right. Speaking of your passions, do you have a baseball movie in your future?

I do.  it is a very interesting movie that I've been thinking about for years and, and I, I don't think I've ever told anyone. 

Ah, exclusive, you're hearing it here first.

this is a movie about the year leading up to when Jackie Robinson was moved into professional baseball and broke the color barrier and all that stuff. But it's set in. The the the Negro league of baseball. And it's really, it's really a story about them. And it's this fictional story about this team of sort of ragtag guys who go all the way to the championship.

In the last year that they know that they have any sort of security in the game, because once Jackie Robinson gets breaks, the color barrier was to everyone knew was coming. They know that their game is going to be dismantled in some shape, form or fashion. So it's about that last year that they knew if, if you don't get it now, then, then you know, you may not ever get it. 

Do you think you might play a role in that place? In baseball? On camera? 

No, no, no, no. I'm I'm, 

Just in the background. 

retirement age 

Okay. Okay.

But it's, it it'll be a fun, it'll be, if.

You can be a coach. 

Yeah.

it can be a coach. I have have a cigar in my mouth and be grumpy 

Yeah. And then you can live out truly, being a baseball player as well.

I did. I made it. 

Yeah. Well that sounds exciting. I mean, I'm sure it's not going to be too far down the line. You, you do things quickly.

Yeah. Yeah. Things keep going the way they're going life, whole life, whole life on handed to me. 

Okay. So, is there any advice that you would give to someone who's trying to produce a film or get a film created in some way, shape or form? I know you, you, you wear multiple hats in your things, so you could take it from either a perspective as a writer, producer, director, or a combo of each of those, but what kind of advice other than just like giving it a hundred percent, but.

What advice would you give to someone who is interested in becoming a filmmaker?

my biggest advice is you should really be a student of film. If you, if you take that to mean, get formal schooling, then take it to mean that if you don't take, if you don't take it to me now, and you don't want to go down that route given the fact that this is not a science, this is an art.

You can learn this. Through through other means other than informal schooling, but my biggest but you have to go to school at some shape, form or fashion. You have to learn this craft because it's, I'm, I'm a. Have a cinema purists on I'm a little bit more protective of the, of the craft and probably most, and I'm a little more precious about it than probably most.

But what I've learned is, is not probably 60, 70% of the people doing this. Don't know how to tell stories properly. So if you, if you know how to tell a story properly, you'll, you'll always have a job. And then if you can take that sort of foundation. And add some possess to it and spice it up. You, you can separate yourself from the crowd.

So, go to school in some shape, form or fashion before you try to make a movie. And a lot of guys won't tell you that they'll tell you, just get a camera and do it. And it's, you'll, you'll waste a lot of money that way you'll waste a lot of money. 

Well, finally, if anyone wants to,  see this film, how would you recommend they best do that? What are the ways they can go see Liam white?

So the forgettable life of Liam white Is available. If you have the Roku channel, which, well, if you have the internet, you have the Roku channel. You can see it there for free, or you can get it on Disney Disney plus YouTube, iTunes, YouTube, Amazon prime voodoo, a bunch of other places.

You can get it there. But definitely see it. The forgettable life, Liam white, you can also learn more about me at Harold Jackson, three, the number three.com or at Carol Jackson, three is another way to find me. And then also you can learn about my production company at eight, the number eight, picture house dot. 

Thank you for your insights. Hopefully listeners will learn some things, get excited, check out your work  Thanks again for joining us today. 

No. Thank you for having me. This was fun.