Award Winning Doc, Call Me Dancer - Filmmakers Spotlight

Call me Dancer is an award winning feature documentary about a young man pursuing his dream of becoming a ballet dancer. From the chaotic streets of Mumbai, India, to Israel, the UK and the U.S., the film follows Maneesh Chauhan over a five year period through his struggles and triumphs with the help of his teacher. Huda Mera, the charismatic Munish, goes from humble beginnings to the world stage. It's a lesson for all of us. When you follow your heart, your life can take a wonderful and unexpected path. I'm your host, Sandra Abrams, and in this episode I will chat with the filmmakers behind this crowd pleasing documentary director Pitt Gilmore, producer and co-director Lesley Champagne and editor Jennifer Beeman. Welcome to Media and Monuments and congratulations on all your success with Call Me Dancer. 
Thank you 
Thanks so much for having 
for 
us. 
having us
I saw this film at the suggestion of our podcast producer, Brendon Fairey, and it's an incredible inspiration and moving because of Maneesh, the central person here. And I wondered if you could just tell us a little bit of how you met him. I think, Leslie, you mentioned at the screening, I saw that you knew his ballet teacher, Yehuda. So if you can just tell us a little bit about that and what were you thinking when you got this phone call when he says, Oh, I have two students, maybe you want to do a film, you probably weren't sure. I'm going to travel to Mumbai, India, for this right? 
Yes. Well, I knew his teacher because I was a professional ballet dancer, and so I knew him during his career as a dancer as well as I knew him as a teacher. And I had studied with him and we became good friends. And I knew that he had eventually gone to India. He was 70 years old and he had discovered these kids that very, very talented kids and it was around that time that he came to me and said, Leslie, because he knew I worked in film. He said, Leslie, will you tell the story? And make this film? And at first I said, Well, let me see if I can find somebody else who's better than me. And if I can't find anyone better than me, I'll I'll think about it. And then, well, there was nobody else. So a few people came around, but he said, No, I want you to do it. And the reason he wanted me to do it is because he felt that as a dancer, I would know their world. I'd be sensitive to it, empathic, 
understand. And that the the thing with dance films is most of the time, not all of the time, they are made by filmmakers who are not within the dance world. And so they are looking from outside in to our world. And so he thought that I would have that sensitivity and he trusted me. And so that's where it started. 
So you go to Mumbai, India, and you meet the two Central. What initially started out to be the two central characters, Maneesh and Amir. So what did you think? Did you like right away? Yes. This is a film I definitely want to do. Or did it take more time after that? 
actually I said, yes, very soon. This is my first film that I'd ever directed. I've been a producer for a long time, and I had worked with Pip before and knew her. We were all of us from the DC film community, and so I needed somebody who was experienced on my side. But because it had to do with dance, I thought, I'm ready, I'm ready to take the plunge. And I liked the story and I liked when I met Maneesh from the first time as well as Aamir, I just thought that they were wonderful characters and coming from a very different kind of background and I was ready to do it, but I needed someone on my side and that's when I brought in Pip
Well, that's just it, Pip. You know, I. I understand from at the screening I went to you, which is kind of came on initially as a consultant. And I'm I'm looking at your client, your clients that you have, you know, from the BBC, Discovery Channel, Hulu. So you're probably thinking I can probably go back to one of my other clients At what point did you say, Wow, I need to jump in. I definitely need to be a part of this
I think, as Leslie pointed out, she and I had worked together already. So beyond just being friends and colleagues, I knew her sensibility and I trusted her. And when she told me about this story, I thought, wow, this is going to be something really different than anything that I've tackled before because we don't know where it's going. We have no idea. But I think that's what made it so appealing to me, because normally all three of us do a lot of television documentaries where we pretty much know what the ending is, and it's a matter of what's the best way to get there, How do we create the arc, how do we create the storylines and things like that? Whereas with with the Story of My Nation, Yehuda and Amir, we never knew. We didn't know where it was going. And I love that part of it, but it made it really difficult. And I think and Leslie and I remember there were times, you know, we'd started editing and we were concerned about the fact that things were really going well for the nation. It was like, we need some conflict. Something's got to go wrong. Lo and behold, some things did go wrong in his in his actual life and on his journey. And that's what's made the film so rich, is because it does have these ups and downs and these flows. And bringing the three of us together and with with Jennifer primarily at the helm, just sort of helping us to craft the storyline so that the audience would emotionally get on board with his journey and go along for the ride. And I think I think that's why it feels like a feature film is because we really do bring the audience along with us. And it made for an incredibly exciting thing. So although, yeah, I initially came on as a consultant five years down the road, I was very glad that I that I stayed involved. 
with Jennifer since Pip is is talking about you, I'm going to give you a chance here. And I did read in your bio that you got your start making documentaries with Roger and me. Such an iconic documentary with Michael Moore. And I know we're here to talk about Call Me Dancer, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about that experience. And. And what did you learn working with him that has carried you through your career? 
It was really a long time ago now. It was really literally the first thing that I cut, actually was a little little documentary about alpacas before that. But it was this was really the first thing I cut it with a Wendy's Dantzler, another woman we co-edited. And then she had also never edited the documentary before. She had just she'd come from Flint with Michael Biehn working with him as a for a couple of however long he was shooting at that point. And she said, I want to edit. And he said, okay. So the two of us completely novice editors started working on this. And I guess what I learned is you know, in a way similar to this, there were a lot of scenes, a lot of obvious scenes, and those were cut pretty quickly and they stayed in a lot of ways kind of the same. the big challenge was structuring it, you know, what order to put the scenes in, how to make it flow, okay, we've got all these scenes. But when we just sort of string them all out together, it doesn't quite work. The arcs are weird and the, you know, the rhythms are off and, and so it took a lot of playing with how that story was told we restructured a lot. mention there things were going to good, what's going to happen? And then a lot of things happened, a lot of, you know, hardship happened for Maneesh. And and at some point it was sort of starting to seem like and then this terrible thing happened and then this terrible thing happened and then this terrible thing happened and that just kind of didn't work. So we really had to put to to work around a lot with how those those scenes were not just going to feel like a long list of and then this and then this and then this and then this. But but really flow so that the dramatic arcs unfolded in a way that felt like a good story. 
Well, I thought you did an incredible job because I felt it was definitely a great balance of putting all that together. But I guess in telling the story, because it did unfold into over five years and I don't know if Leslie or Pip can speak to this, but one of the things I wanted to ask, you know, how did you go and convince his family that you're going to have a camera crew following you and then it turned out to be for five years? How did that unfold, that conversation unfold? 
I think that it was that first Yehuda. So Maneesh had been studying with Yehuda and everybody trusted Yehuda. And when you, Huda gave us the seal of approval that this film can be made, then everybody was like, okay, from the dance school to the families and, you know, let's be real. Here comes these American filmmakers. And Maneesh family has they don't have passports. They've never left the country. They don't speak English. And they they were just, you know, I think, like, who were these people while let's just let it happen. I think they were excited to be involved. I don't think they realised what was happening and I don't think Maneesh realized how long he thought this would be like a ten minute film. And he didn't know. And it kept going on and on and on. So he didn't. I think it would just sort of unfolded. But what I have to say is that Maneesh and Pip can add to it his his parents and his family. They were so open and embraced us and so natural and just let us be there in their lives. 
Yeah, They're very humble family. I mean, his father was a cab driver. His grandfather was a cab driver. And this was the expected you know, we've worked really hard. So then you can go to school. And an Indian families usually expect your children to be either doctors, engineers, business people. And he's certainly decided to take a different path. And I had read that that was one of the reasons why John, who ended up being an executive producer there and he had the two original songs, he could relate to this saying South Asian families do this. They don't want their children to go into the arts. I Did you hear any of those behind the scenes discussions? Anything that you can impart add to that story
I mean, the only thing I can say is that I've heard this story repeated to me over and over again by South Asians. But I think it's also an immigrant story that every year a lot of immigrants come to wherever they come to the United States or England. JAY Sean's from England, and they want a better life for their kids, and they are here sacrificing their lives for their kids and their whole focus is that. And then then the kids feel a responsibility to follow what their parents want them to be. And sometimes it's not what they want to be, but they feel that responsibility to their families. So it's I don't think it's just Indian families. I think it's a lot of families. 
I wanted to go back to John at the UK singer songwriter, and I just thought that was incredible that you got these two original songs because that normally doesn't happen with documentaries. And how did that all come about? 
It was another one of our executive producers who I knew that I wanted to have some original songs and I wanted it to be from a South Asian artist. And he had suggested a couple people and he knew Jay, Sean and he he presented it to Jay. Sean and I listened to all of the different musicians that his name is Jatin and Garani, and I listened to all of the music and I said, I like Jay Sean's music, and that's the one I would like to approach. And so Jatin approached him and he saw a little bit of what we had done. And he said, Oh, it's well, beautifully shot and I love this story. And he came he said, Yes, right away. 
Yeah, that's wonderful. I wanted to ask you in shooting this, if you had any difficulty with putting your crews together, getting your visas, permits, was there any challenges or hurdles working? Because you do have you have India, you have Israel, the United States, UK, three or four countries involved here. Any issues there, challenges that you could speak to? And in doing this documentary, or advice you can offer to other people on this
Oh, I can let Pip answer some of that because she's shot all over the world. And I knew that I was in good hands with her when we went to shoot. So if you can answer that, 
I think certainly lining everything up to make sure that we were doing it properly. You know, you're bringing expensive equipment into the country and there's a lot of paperwork that has to be stamped and sealed and signed and all of those sorts of things. But I think one of the hardest things and unexpected issues that came about, of course, was COVID. 
So, you know, at one point, Leslie and I were ready to go back and do another shoot and COVID happened. And, you know, we had the tickets and everything. It's like, nope, not going. And that that presented enormous challenges because there was an awful lot of things that were happening in the nation's life at that time and that needed to be covered. But we physically couldn't get there, which meant Leslie and I, in the middle of the night would basically remote directing. So we had to find, you know, camera operators who would be willing to work over there. And basically we set up a system that allowed Leslie and I to watch what they were filming, and we could speak to them and give them commentary as they were filming, like, okay, let's get tighter on this, you know, okay, let's move off to this and things like that. But it was in the middle of the night for us. It was it was enormously difficult to do that. 
But the Indian Embassy also gave us journalists visas, which we got. So that helped. we also had very good cinematographer, Neil Barrett, who was also from the DC community who worked with us, and he's used to working, you know, as a one man band. We did have other crew who joined us, but he's very flexible and I mean, I what I have to say is I think that as all of us, whether it's Neil or Jennifer or Pep and that everybody was flexible and not we didn't have any that much money at all. So we did what we could on a shoestring budget and everybody just went with the flow. 
well, speaking of budget, because that is a big issue with documentaries and they are very expensive. How did that how did you start your fundraising? Any advice and especially the fact of, you know, at different points in the film, you were told, well, Amir is not going to be available any more to be part of this project. 
COVID did hit and also Maneesh injured his shoulder. So, you know, you have to pivot at each time and you're going, oh, and we still need more money. 
So raising the money was the hardest part and I don't think I was very successful at it. So mostly I self-funded it, which I wouldn't recommend to anybody out there who's listening. But 
I had no choice and I really wanted to do this. I didn't have the experience of fundraising and I tried, but I a lot of people in the community, in the DC community, people that we know, they they donated money. I got a few grants, but not enough. So there's a huge budget deficit and we have a big budget gap. But I knew that once I had started and I had the support of my husband who just said, keep going. I mean, there were many times I just thought, what am I doing? But my husband really encouraged me to do it and to keep going. And so I did. So my I don't know what advice I have to people other than don't do it. 
It's not for the faint of heart, that's for sure. 
I think it is important to talk about that. I think if there are people who are trying to do something like this, it was the one role that none of us really had. You know, I haven't I've never had to fundraise before. Jennifer, I don't know if you've ever had to. I mean, none of us sort of. it's just not something that we know anything about. And I think that was that was tough, especially on Leslie, because it's Leslie who shouldered it and as much as as we supported her and said, you know, we'll deal with the payment stuff later, it's still, you know, she was carrying it. And that's a human responsibility, especially when you have all of these things that are going wrong and you think, oh, God, you know, you're doing the right thing. And we we all managed to sort of keep bolstering each other up if if one of us sort of starts to go, oh, God, you know, is it worth it? Is it worth it? We really rally around each other to help get back on track, because it is I mean, there's there's nothing like a film to to discover who's going to stand beside you and support you when you're doing something like that. It really does take a lot of people
And the other thing is that we don't have a company. We don't have like a company behind us. We don't have an executive producer with a lot of money. We we don't we didn't have anybody. And usually in a film, there's at least something, some kind of support system. And we did not have that. But I did find that the people who were involved in this film, they loved the story. And 
I must say with hindsight now, I think about how precarious it was, what we did, 
because to not know what the end of the story is, and I saw during the editing how difficult it is and if if it's like I always give when I go to festivals, I give Jennifer a lot of credit and I talk about that a lot because you could have fantastic material, but you don't know in a documentary which way to tell the story. And you could tell it in a thousand different ways. but there's lot of pieces and I, you know, I think that Jennifer's an amazing storyteller, and she's not just an editor, she's a producer editor. So that and she also has wonderful whole musical taste. I love everything that she does musically, and I am very picky musically. 
We must have the same taste because you'd never seem too picky about the music to me. So. So it seemed like I just. I just did two things we both liked automatically. I somehow have the same 
Yeah, 
taste. 
yeah, no, I hear it now and I'm always I love the music. And you chose sometimes classical music when you felt it was ready for classical or you chose hip hop music or and it was always it was always good. And music is very, very important. I mean, the other thing is I didn't scrimp. I mean, I've been producing I mean, we've all been working in this field for a long time, so we know who are the best people in DC. And I think we chose the best
cinematographer, we chose the best online editor, the best online colorist, the best audio mixer. You know, I think that, you know, I wasn't when it gets to the very end, I wasn't going to skimp on that kind of. And I've seen now that I've gone to a lot of festivals, I also see how other documentaries that they don't have the same colour, the colour in the audio and the online doesn't have the same quality
with Jennifer, I thought the way everything came together, especially the scenes where he enters the Indian. So you think you can dance version here you had to put all these different things together. Was there any technical issues, aside from putting the story together, any technical issues that you had and putting everything together? 
Well, fortunate. Our our online editor took care of all of those because it was a lot of different. The footage came from so many different sources, so many different cameras, so
I got that footage, but it was, it was not very good and it was Jeff Huie. So I have to we have to give a shout out to Jeff Huey, who was our online editor, who's this amazing editor who is still working on it. Dave Marcon, who is the colorist at Henniker, and Dave Hurley, was the audio mixer
We handed them a lot of challenges a lot of challenges online with so many different footage qualities and, and cameras and the color. Correct. Just same to make it all look so like you could you can barely tell like it all just really fits together from so many different sources and that's just incredible. And the audio was 
that mix was that was that was rough 
mostly because we you know the the Leslie interviewed many did like for master interviews of many show for a six year period from when he was 18 to 26 and his his voice changed and like cut them together. Yeah. Because sometimes you know, he would tell similar stories, but, you know, four years apart and maybe it's different Mike and I different recording system. But part of the story, he said it really nicely one way and the other part of the story, he said something else really nicely and they, you know and, and we put them together and, you know, Dave went above and beyond the call of duty
know. 
He did amazing. And considering that we become because of the lack of money, we didn't have sound on everything. So sometimes the cameraman was doing the sound as well, and sometimes the camera was my cell phone and I had some, you know, audio mics, you know, connected to my cell phone. So we had everything from cell phone footage to, you know, a high level, then a camera. 
And and we just had to have faith. We had faith in the edit that it would all come out in good. And we used whatever, you know, work to tell the story. Even if the audio wasn't quite great or it wasn't perfect or it didn't or you know, it was a little bit of a rough edit or, you know, the in the does sound quality, we were like, we're going to, it's going to Dave, Dave's going to make it all work. 
Or Jeff will 
So. 
make it look good or Dave will make it like I get in festivals. People are like, Oh, who does your cinematography? It's so beautiful. And I'm like, Well, that's that's called Dave Marken at HENNINGER because he colored it and he made it look beautiful and he made it look like it's all like it was one person and and we had money. 
Mm hmm. 
But that's the beauty of the online part that most people, when they see a film, they have no idea about that. 
considering all these challenges that you did have. You're doing incredibly well on the film festival circuit, and as of today, mid November, I had seen there is 11 different film festivals. You're the winner of the Audience award. You've won a jury award. You've even won. I think it was excellence in documentary directing at the New York Indian Film Festival. And then now a company has acquired the North American theatrical rights and that news was announced last month at the Tokyo International Film Festival. So I wanted to ask, what does this mean to your documentary? 
It means that it's that it's going to have a theatrical release. It'll open in movie theaters starting December 15th across the United States. It's a limited release, so it means that it will go to more like arthouse theaters and it opens in New York City at the Quad Cinema, which is in the village. So anybody who hears this, please come to the quad and then immediately afterwards. And so that's a week we're on there. And then after that, it opens in L.A., December 21st through 24 hours for four days at some different theaters. And today I heard that it'll open in Toronto at Hot Docs Cinema, also for about a week you know, I think if it does well in New York, then more cinemas will pick it up. But it's very challenging today because people are not going to the movies and yeah, it's hard to get people to go. We hope that the film having this theatrical release will give it more visibility so that it can just keep going. 
And does that mean hopefully with this visibility, it gets, you know, streaming services
Yes. Yeah, we hope that that it's it's actually in Europe. It's it was co-produced with ZDF and Arte and they're there like the PBS in Germany and France and they put money into it. So that was a place where we did get some money and also not just the money. They gave us a stamp of approval saying that they liked the film and they like the story. So they worked with us during the edit and they will actually start showing that there. The full 84 minutes in Germany, France and other countries around Europe that speak German and French, and it will be dubbed in German and French. That starts in January. And it's already actually the TV version of it has been already shown in Sweden. hopefully it just keeps going
have you given any thought to any type of follow up program or follow up short film about Maneesh, You know, five years from now, what's happening with him and achieving his next goal, potentially opening a dance school. And of course I really want to find out what's going on with Hedo. I loved him. I just thought he was just such a he he transferred. I mean, he just had an amazing arc in this documentary with, you know, he was like, All right, dancers, come on, let's get going. And then by the end of the film, there's this one scene where he's walking along the beach and, you know, when he's at the Kennedy Center and he's beaming like such a proud, you know, mentor. So what's. 
Oh, you're talking about Yehuda. 
Yehuda? 
Yehuda is 
Yeah. 
Yehuda. 
Yehuda Yes. So, yeah, he's he seems like he's like, Alright, everybody. He's such a tough ballet master. And then, you know, you see these scenes where he's opening up and he's becoming, you know, a brand new person. And then that scene where he's at the Kennedy Center and he's just grinning from ear to ear, I just just thought he was a great character. 
He he is a good character. And I and I also must give credit to Pip because I didn't know how being my first film, I didn't know how to approach this. And she and I sat through and we laid out and it was also during COVID that we were doing this, and we were also editing with Jen during COVID. So that was also a difficult experience, but we did it through Zoom and other things like that. I didn't know how to approach this. And she said, okay, let's like lay out every single scene that we shot. Let's put it in a script format, not a script, but we like and we every scene like, like in a script, but every scene we put, what's the intent? What is the scene? What is the intention of the scene, why we're doing it. We would put in, you know, excerpts from the script so that we could give this to Jennifer and say, okay, this is, you know, this is why we shot this, or this is the way we think it could go. And having an arc, like you said, you know, Pip was always like, okay, what's the meaning of it? What's the arc? Why are we doing this? It's not just images. There's got to be a reason why you have a scene. So she was I always give her that credit for helping us shape it. 
any thought for going back, you know, five years, ten years from now. 
never thought about it. Pip. 
I mean, I think Leslie's got some some incredible plans, sort of future plans of what she wants to do, sort of not necessarily with the film. But Leslie, I don't know if now is good for you to talk about what you're going to do. Now that we finished Call Me Dancer. And because a lot of what you're doing, you're going to do you wanted to do initially, but I don't want to give away the punch line
Yeah, well, so the social impact stage of the film was always very important to me. In other words, the educational side of the film, that I thought that this was a very inspiring film, that that Indians should see that. You can have a lot of and for a lot of people. But I felt that people have a lot of shackles on them. Sometimes they're economic, sometimes they're parental, sometimes they're cultural, and that it's inspiring for kids to see a story where this kid, you know, against all odds, just kept pushing, pushing, pushing. And so I received a Fulbright grant that I will use next year in 2024, in March, to go back to India to create educational content, to work with teachers, to dub it into different languages and sort of get it out far wide in India. And to, you know, I think normally kids are not going to watch a documentary, and particularly in India, they watch Bollywood films and the word documentary for them is like 1960s PBS. How, you know, we used to have educational so they don't have a lot of docs. So maybe it's to cut it into smaller pieces and have talkbacks and things like that and curriculum. So that will definitely take me the next year to do that. 
Congratulations. That's phenomenal. That's incredible news, especially on the Fulbright, that that's really wonderful. And what's happening in the future. Fantastic. 
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm very excited about that. And to get the recognition from the Fulbright as well
One thing that Pip said in her bio that I read it was said one of the reasons why she likes working on documentaries is because you don't know the ending. And Pip, you spoke to that a little bit in the beginning of our conversation. But I guess I want to circle back and ask each of you and Jen, you were when you were looking at this film, putting the story together and editing, did you suddenly go, Aha, that's the ending. And then or was Leslie sitting with you? You know, what was going on there when you said, you know, you had that? 
that we don't want to give away the ending 
No, you 
though. 
don't want 
know 
to give away 
we 
the 
can't 
ending. 
give 
No, 
away the 
but just 
ending. 
but just tell me, what was that process like? You know, because Pip had said, well, this is great. We don't know the ending. 
Yeah, well, see, the ending wasn't shot until very late in the process. And, you know, and then there was this big plan to shoot it. And at that point, we were very you we had a good fine cut right up until that moment. So it was we were really tracking with with in the edit along with this story. So I think it's a really it's very real story of, you know, not just a dancer but and even not just an artist, but any young person trying to do what they care about in the world and trying to make it. And Leslie was there in, you know, for all of those struggles and that heartache and the successes and 
big highs and big lows and and and, you know, and she was she was always there. And then just the one that happened at the end, I mean, that it at some point you just have to stop. Right. So, you know, there were other hardship that Maneesh had after that and then other successes and and and good things happen, you know, But at some point you have to stop. So that was that was a fine ending, the one that we land on in many, many definitely goes on. But it wasn't so much like, you know, we saw it in the footage and be like, Oh, that'd be a great end. It was more like Leslie went off to shoot the end. Leslie and Pip went 
right 
off to 
while 
shoot 
we 
the 
were 
end. 
editing. But I 
And. 
think in my head I even if we didn't have the ending that we did as artists, there is no end with an artist's life. And this is the story of a young man who wants to become an artist. So there is no end. And I didn't need in my head, I didn't need some grand finale, an ending I we could have done had a different ending, and it would still to me resonate because what I was trying to show was this is an artist's life. This the struggle, but this is the joy dancers, artists. They do what they do because they love it. And even with all the obstacles, they still keep going. And most people would give up. And but with artists and other people too. When you have a passion for something, you look from the outside and you're like, Why did that person keep going? Why did And you can say numerous people, you know, in who do? I mean, it could be Elon Musk, it could be anybody who just takes a risk and says, I'm just going for it. And 
People like Leslie Champagne. 
like me. Yeah, well, that was just being dogged in not giving up right to finish this film. 
Yeah. 
But I wanted to show that that this sort of that universal story of when someone has a passion for something and it's inside, they can't stop, but they love it. It had to have that. It had to have both sides. And I think that's what the film achieved, that you see the passion for something, you see the difficulty, but you see also that I mean, there's no explanation why, but I think that it's conveyed that someone why someone keeps going without explaining it in words, 
Thank you, Leslie, Pip and Jennifer for talking the media and monuments, the documentary we should say the award winning documentary is called Call Me Dancer. It's in English and Hindi. To learn more, go to the website. Is
call me dancer dot com. Or if you want to find us on social media, it's call me dancer movie and you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. We really want people to follow us, which is great if they do or on the website you can see all the all the screenings that we will be having. 
Thank you again
Thank you so much. 
Thanks so much for having us, Sandra. It's nice talking to you. 
Yeah, it was really wonderful