A Dialogue with Screenwriter Claudia Myers

 Before any story makes it to screen, it begins with words on a page. I'm your host Candace Block, and today we're talking screenwriting.

I'm joined by writer, director, producer, professor, and all around Multihyphenate Claudia Myers. Claudia was named one of 10 filmmakers to watch by Independent Magazine in 2015  and has been making good on that recognition ever since. As a screenwriter, Claudia has won numerous awards, was twice a finalist for the Sundance Screenwriters Lab, and is an alum of the Hampton Screenwriters Lab.

She wrote and directed 20 fourteens Fort Bliss, a drama starring Michelle Mohen as an army medic returning home from a tour in Afghanistan. She's written or written and directed other successful films such as Kettle Fish, wild Oats, and the Long Road Back among others. she wrote and directed the 2019 feature film Above the Shadows, which opened the 2019 Brooklyn Film Festival and won the audience award for best narrative feature.

Claudia's currently in development on a drama series about women in special operations, and while I could go on and on about her projects and accolades, I think it's time to get right into it and welcome her to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining us, Claudia.

Thank you for having me.

So first, when did you realize that you wanted to be not just a writer, but a screenwriter, bringing stories to the screen?

I think my interest in film really,  developed. In and after college,  because I was considering going into law and  I was a paralegal for a year and,  did not take to the work that I was doing, I moved into development. I worked in development for a very small production company,  the biggest film I worked on while I was there was Terrence Mallek, the Thin Red Line.

And I fell in love with that work and that world and putting stories on screen and, it was so inspiring. I looked forward to going to work every day  and I, at the same time, I felt that I, I needed some time to really develop the kinds of stories I wanted to tell and figure out what kind of filmmaker I wanted to be.

And so for me, film school was a very, and instrumental part of my becoming a filmmaker.

Oh, excellent.  I'm sure everybody listening to this podcast is aware, but screenwriting versus just simply creative writing has unique formatting rules. how long did it take for you to get used to that way, I know there's different software and stuff that helps now, but how much is it like an adjustment  to do  a screenplay versus just a story?

I think the formatting is actually the easiest part. I think, the bigger challenge is that you're writing for a visual medium and what you're writing is not a, an end product. so it's not so much a literary document as it is a blueprint for a movie. And so you want the reader as much as possible when they read your script to have the experience of watching your film.

economy is actually. is something that most of us have to work on because, good scripts are exercises in, in minimalism very often. Like how few words can you use to give a vivid impression of something without getting lost in the details.

so yeah, writing and storytelling  their subjective arts, but there's still some basics of good writing and standards of creating a great script or a sellable script, or a script that has a potential to make it onto screen. So what advice would you give to those wanting to write something to be sold?

it's very hard to know what we'll sell, but I do think certain things make for good dramatic stories. I'm a proponent of structure as, I. A tool that can be really helpful. It doesn't mean you have to tell cookie cutter stories, but it just does mean that we have an intuitive understanding of what a good dramatic story is.

And the audience has basic, expectations of what. you know what is going to be interesting, and usually that means, we know who the protagonist is very early on. We know what they want and we know why they want it, and usually it has to be something difficult because if it's not difficult or if the protagonist doesn't care about achieving it, then it's really hard to care for them.

that doesn't mean that, protagonists have to be heroes in the traditional sense where they're good people, on commendable missions, it's none of that. But it's just appreciating that, when you write a film, you want the audience to be invested, to be engaged. you don't have to like the protagonist, but you do have to root for them or at least understand why they're doing what they're doing and why it's so important to them.

 And so I do think that there are certain kind of, fundamentals, that make a good dramatic story, a good dramatic story. seeing a character go through change. That's how we understand meaning in a story. it's rare to be satisfied by, a film where a character starts off one way and ends up the exact same way.

Because then we feel what was the point? And, the point of a story is in some ways the most important part of the story. It's the reason that the screenwriter or the director wanna, explore this idea.  and we express meaning through change. And so a character's arc, was what we call it, is not just a way to understand that this character's gone on a journey, but it's really about what is the story really telling us about the world.

So those are, I think, things that make inherently better stories and we're always going to. Almost always enter a story through characters. So interesting characters. I think the explosion of, streaming and television is we get to really spend time with characters that we're interested in.

so if your character is bland or generic or really simplistic, you'd have to compensate in a lot of other ways know, to make a good film. But as to what's sellable, you know, if people had figured out for sure what works, they'd be.

Yeah. so then going off of the whole character obviously being the foundation of these, what's your opinion or process on creating a deep backstory for your characters? Are you a writer who likes to do that or do you think it's beneficial? obviously everyone has their own different style, but how do you feel about creating like deep backstories for your characters?

 I think it's really important for the writer to know their world and to know their characters and as I was saying earlier, because you enter a story through character. The more dimensional that person, or maybe it's a, an object or an animal depending on the script, the more dimensional that character is, I think the more interesting.

so I have definitely written backstories, but I've done it at different points in the process. sometimes I do it quite formally, like I'll provide a backstory to an actor. Sometimes I'll do it cuz I'm feeling lost and I feel like I just wanna. Write out everything I know about the character.

Sometimes I'll develop a character and a pitch before I actually write the script. And then you have to delve into backstory cuz what you're pitching is the idea of the character rather than a, a written script. so in one way or another, there are questions that I think just have to be answered and it really does for me come down to what are they pursuing?

why is this moment in time, the moment where they need to be on this journey? And then how do they change? And sometimes things like where they come from and their educational background is crucial. And sometimes that's not relevant at all. And it's gonna be more about their love life or  their upbringing or their relationship with their uncle 

I think sometimes writers misunderstand it as like, answering a list of 50 questions about, all kinds of things. And I think that the real trick about backstory that I've found is, the things you need to know are how did this character end up in this place at this moment in time? Like, how did they get to where they are when we meet them?

and what caused that and what caused them to be in a place where they. Are yearning for this thing that they want. I think that's the best way to use backstory. So yes, I definitely use it as a tool, but I try to do it in a targeted way.

Excellent. Yeah, that's a lot of great advice. so what have you found are some of the differences between writing for a, big screen feature versus an episodic, type? Show or anything cuz you've got different amounts of time to reveal the story and the journey and the process. So how does that change the writing?

And also, I understand with episodic things, you don't always know  how many more episodes you'll be granted. So I'd imagine that factors in as well.

I can definitely speak with more confidence about features than I can about episodic. I have written and sold, a pilot. I have written and sold Two pitches. but I have never had, I've never been able to, get the shows made so far. I have not made them yet, but even in the way you write a pilot, since I have written a couple, you have to approach it differently and pilots are kind of their own animal.

pilots are heavy lifts because you're setting up the world of the show. The characters, the formula of the show. And, you are seeding all the different future storylines and conflicts. So pilots are notoriously difficult.

 once the series is launched, then that becomes a different kind of writing. That's often a sort of a team approach where writers' rooms will, collaboratively brainstorm stories and then they're refined. the plot is agreed on and then a writer goes and writes it. So it's,  quite different for the most part.

and a feature is a complete story. with a pilot you're setting up something that ideally could go for five or six seasons. you wanna have an idea of where you might go with it or where it could go, but you're not in any way completing the story. with a feature you have to have, it's complete in and of itself.

And so that makes it, really different. And in some ways, I think more manageable because, any questions you wanna answer, you answer in those, 90 or 120 pages.

so I know a lot of, films, if they become successful, often will get a sequel or a prequel or all of these things Now, Do you as a writer see some films and can you tell the difference of something that feels like it was completed and left alone or does it bother you if you see something that kind of squeaked out another film even though it maybe didn't need it, but they were capitalizing on some box office success.

I don't think that many films can really eek out sequels and prequels. certainly, in the superhero genre, it goes without saying that they become franchises and they're often explored with a mine towards, oh, we could do Batman 2 34, or, fast and Furious. is another kind of,  It's a world and a set of characters that you can keep revisiting, and just change the antagonist or change something. But there's a familiarity, which also is some, a very appealing formula for, studios because you get the benefit of a built-in audience.

Outside of those types of movies or the breakout successes that spawn like a buddy movie that will spawn a second buddy movie? I can't think of too many. The Hangover was, I think, a surprise that there was a second one. was there a third?

there was a third even. 

so I think that's more the exception than the rule, but I think interestingly, you're starting to see the same thing with limited series.

so things like Big Little Lies that are based on a book and the story is told, are worth such a hit that it was sort of irresistible to make, a second season. And I think we're seeing that  And sometimes they manage really successfully. They're very crafty in finding ways to regenerate the idea.

and other times it feels like a stretch, like I guess any sequel can be, and sometimes they surprise you and they're better than the first, 

so in, just in general about characters and all these things, there's a lot of stuff that people can pull from that have existed, but in terms of writing new content, do you think there's, lacking still a lot of representation in on-screen characters?

And is there a responsibility you think that writers have in creating stories that are diverse and inclusive of a variety of perspectives and experiences?

I'm so glad you asked that.  so I think representation, on screen is hugely important and I think we're in a really exciting moment because I think, Aside from the fact that I think it's the world as many of us know it. And, I think it has taken a little while for, media portrayals of characters to reflect the diversity that we're seeing around us.

I also think, there's a sense that now there's, it's welcome, in Hollywood, in, in other words, it doesn't feel to me at all as though, showcasing diverse voices or diversity in casting is something that the industry is resisting? I think they're actually embracing it,  I think it's in part because of this new streaming landscape where, there's such a wide way to reach audiences and there's a,  kind of an appetite for.

Films that represent very specific kind of cultural experiences or communities that didn't really exist before when everything was either in theaters or rentals. and so I, I think. That has all made it a very, exciting time to be a storyteller. Cause I think there's so many ways, there's so many formats.

There's all the way from web series limited series, ongoing series. The half hour format has also broken out of, its like, it doesn't have to be a sitcom anymore. features of course.  across all of these, I just think we're seeing. Increasing diversity both in front of and behind the camera,  starting with the scripts, both the people writing them and the people, the characters and the communities that are featured in them.

And I think that's absolutely all for the good.  I think that all makes it. a particularly good time to be a screenwriter, just because there's so many opportunities  it's also just allowing people to put on screen characters and experiences that we haven't really seen before.

And I think   it's vitally important that be, part of, the media landscape. there's one other thing I wanted to say about representation.  the thing as a screenwriter is, the conversation now is also moving to who has a right to tell what stories.

And I say that very broadly. obviously this is a complex question and I think, a really interesting one, and I think fundamentally as screenwriters. what matters is that if it's a world or, let's say an experience or community that you don't know, but you wanna tell that story, you have an attachment to that story, you have a connection to the story, but it's not your lived experience.

I think the responsibility that I see is that the screenwriter really has to do the work to really understand that perspective. and I think that's something that's also, I think becoming more. Understood and better acknowledged. So for example, when I wrote Fort Bliss, I have no military background.

No one in my family served. I grew up overseas, so I was really outside of the military community and I felt very shy about writing a story about a soldier, and I related to the character in a profound way as a mother and a working mom and just. The pressures of someone who is trying to do two very different things and things that took me away from my child.

and I felt a lot of pressure because of that, and I was certainly judged because of that. it's not easy to leave your toddler for three months to make a movie, it's a whole other level when you're going to war. so I, I really didn't take that lightly at all. I, I made films with the military.

I made documentaries. I interviewed soldiers. I wouldn't say embedded myself, that would be, that would not be correct. But I certainly spent a lot of time on, on military facilities working with soldiers and veterans to really understand with a very open mind, like what are the dynamics and what is a truthful representation of this experience?

And be as authentic as I could, recognizing that it would never be my own experience. 

Yeah, and it sounds like doing that research perhaps inspired you to create some other projects in that vein cuz you have, you know, Fort Bliss Long Road Back, women at War, even your upcoming drama series about women in special operations. They are all like feature service women as protagonists and all of that.

So you already let us know that you don't have personally a military background, but is there something that draws you to stories of women in uniform maybe after learning a lot more about them.

I mean, I am drawn to stories of women in uniform, but I'm drawn to sort of  stories of women in general. I often, I'm drawn to stories that tell the story through the lens of a female protagonist. I'm very interested in women in masculine environments, trying to.

Prove themselves,  I like strong characters. I'm currently working on a, a crime drama about  a woman, fighting for the life of, a client on a death penalty case based on a true story in Virginia. And, similarly, she's often the only woman in this environment on death row.

And everyone's, around her is, she's dwarfed by all of these, these men. And she was fierce. And this woman that the film is based on is, I just like characters that have almost insurmountable obstacles to overcome, whether they're internal or external.

I'm drawn to characters in extreme situations,  I think that's the bigger umbrella, but yes, I am, I'm really interested. I just think there are a lot of untold stories about, women's experience in the military.

a interesting segue of your learning and research about this, speaking of teaching you, and researching and everything you currently teach at American University, so how did you get into teaching and  how long have you been teaching, things in the film world?

I've been teaching at American University for 14 years and I was teaching screenwriting before that for a few years. Actually maybe three or four, just independently and sometimes, with, outside programs. But, I really love teaching. I love the students that we have at American University.

I think we tend to draw a, perhaps a kind of a more socially aware student body. At least it's my experience in the film program that we have students who really. Have something to say and are very thoughtful about the kinds of stories they wanna tell. The, the kind of the slogan of our program is media That matters, which is one of the reasons that I really wanted to teach there, as opposed to, other programs that are, maybe bigger.

 I, I just feel like. We have a responsibility for what we put out in the world as storytellers. Like it's really important to me that we think carefully about what we're trying to say, because I think film is such a powerful medium and, I think Americans.

Overall vision of, why do we make media? because we're trying to share something that we view as important about the world  just aligns really well with how I see the importance of stories. So yeah, I've been teaching there for all this time and I teach both screenwriting and directing.

Excellent. so what are some best lessons or takeaways you've learned from your students? Is there anything that they've taught you that you carry forth in your own writing or styles?

Honestly, I feel like I've learned a lot from my students. I think it's, there is a good amount of give and take in ways that are, I think, sometimes a little hard to describe. I think the easier ones would be, Helping me stay current.  when we talk about, a recent film or a show, their presentations, they introduce me to filmmakers or work that is important and meaningful to them.

so I feel like those are quite eye-opening at times cuz it's something that I won't know at all and maybe, is just constantly broadening.  my visual literacy. and speaking of that, like informing me about various apps, but also I think knowing I.

The concerns they have, the interests they have, the way they'll approach a story or a character. and just being in a situation honestly, where as a writer, I'm constantly talking about writing. I'm trying to help them fix, challenges they're having. Sometimes I'll be able to speak to them about how I overcame a similar challenge.

Sometimes in the process of them working through something, You know, somebody will have a process and I think, oh, I could try that one time.  I certainly don't have all the answers and I think a lot of writing is problem solving. and I think also just keeping me sharp, the fact that I read so many scripts and I help many different kinds of students crack their stories and, I feel like it's.

made me better at communicating, what makes something work and what doesn't work. And then that also helps me just when I, pitch for something or I, give feedback on something in a more professional setting.

So what are some of those, more common mistakes that you find they  make at first?

Okay, so some common mistakes.

for example,  I don't know about you, but one of my big pet peeves is in when dialogue is constantly saying the character's names over and over and over again.

like I think, what is it?  Rose and Jack say their names like, 50 or 80 times in Titanic. cuz when you listen to real people speaking in the real world, they're not saying each other's names all the time.

 it's interesting that you bring that up. yeah, certainly I think, one potential pitfall is that, understanding that dialogue, like movie dialogue or TV dialogue is not real conversation. It's the illusion of conversation and it has to do all this other stuff. It has to, you know, advance the story and reveal characters and it has to do it in a way that's, both believable but efficient.

So better if somebody coming into a scene doesn't say, I'm so glad you're my sister, and, you've been alive for 14 years. that's not very believable. they're probably better ways of conveying that these two characters are siblings and that they're 14, or one of them is 14. so yeah, so clumsy dialogue, certainly.

And, in some ways I feel like that's, that is, a craft that you learn and you get better at as you go, and often like the kind of the final frontier. I think very often when students are developing stories, sometimes something as simple as not having a clear protagonist, which seems easy, but these things are not always easy depending on your point of departure or your premise.

I think probably. Uniformly the two biggest challenges I see, but not just in, first year screenwriters, but even later on is, the character having a clear goal in the story, something that they're pursuing that actually allows 'em to be active as opposed to be passive or reactive.

And then, the character, really the writer having a clear sense of what the character's arc is, meaning. How is, how, where do they start from and how do they end and how is it different? and being able to articulate that really crisply is hugely valuable. And, the realization that you can write an entire screenplay and still not really know what the character wanted or still not really know how they changed because it's a lot harder than it sounds.

Earlier this season on the podcast we talked about script dc, which is the educational conference with panels and workshops for filmmakers that women and film and video hosts. I understand you've been involved with the experience a few times. Could you talk about what you contributed and what that experience was like?

I'm such a fan of Script dc I think I've participated in. I wouldn't say nearly everyone cuz I was overseas for three years. But I think I've participated in most of the conferences or many of them. I was a panelist. I led workshops.  I was on critique panels. different years, different things.

some people are fairly regular to the conference, but we try to participate in a different way. I just think I'm so Exactly, and I'm so pleased that it exists. I think it's such a fabulous resource. It's such a supportive conference. I think in part because of its size, but I think in part because of the people who attend and, we all really wanna help and support emerging writers.

And, it's just a really good atmosphere and it is a treasure trove of resources. And yeah. But pretty much anytime I'm available in my mask, I will support the event.

Awesome. so yeah. what then has been one of the most rewarding things about screenwriting for you personally?

I feel really lucky that my job is to tell stories, so I think pretty much. everything about the fact that's what I get to do. And when I'm not, writing a script or directing something, I'm teaching others how to do something that I love. there's a lot I love about it.

It's empowering. I learn so much because I think every story kind of forces me to focus on. Something that, I don't know. I try not to write stories where I have all the answers going in or know things inside out. I use it as a way to immerse myself in different subcultures and, that part is all really rewarding, which isn't to say that it can't be lonely and frustrating sometimes, and sometimes you just feel stuck and that's all hard, but, which is why I think.

Creating a community, whether, if you're in school, obviously it's a lot easier, but even outside of school writing groups, finding ways to network and sometimes you just need an outside perspective  to nudge you out of your funk. but aside from that, which is, and rejection, rejection is really tough, but, the satisfaction of just knowing that you have to sit down and create something that's, Possibly going to be, made and shared with, a wide audience is really exciting.

Yeah. you've been successful in that, you've had things shared with wide audiences can you tell us like maybe what it felt like when you first sold a big script? what was that like? and then how involved were you in the stories after that, in terms of being like in the production, helping with it?

So I've written and directed three feature films. and so those, I obviously had control of all the way through. And one of those films I was also a producer on, so I was involved in everything that was Ford Bliss, and I actually really enjoyed that. the  other sort of extreme of my experience is selling wild oats.

 to the producers who brought on another director, and then the script was revised significantly. And so I really wasn't that involved in that process or that project after a certain point. But there's no question that when something you've worked on often for years and years, is finally coming out and you, you see it on the awning of a theater and or you go to a festival premiere and the house is packed.

there are some experiences that, that will really stay with me because of, Having an emotional impact on an audience, I is the most rewarding experience I think a filmmaker can have, and especially when you really put your heart and soul into it as, almost every film I do, because I'm an independent filmmaker, I don't do projects for hire that I'm kind of half into. I don't have to take everything that comes my way and I sometimes don't get things that I want.  but, that is a hard to beat that kind of connection with an audience. And then, knowing that you've impacted somebody is huge.

Yeah, that's, it's amazing. you've certainly done that a lot and I'm sure our audience, if they haven't already seen some of your projects, are now gonna look them up, and

hope so. Yeah.

But, before we get into some of what you're maybe doing now, or we could get some information, on.

 you and your current projects. what, just finally, is there any advice for anyone wanting to break into screenwriting or some advice that you  wish you had gotten early on, or just something that they should, it sounds like we've given a lot throughout the interview, but just in general with any other takeaways that you want to leave people with.

 Obviously I'm a believer in, learning the craft. both because of my personal experience and because I continue to teach, in a film program, I really, believe. Look, some people are just naturally gifted. They get it and they're brilliant and they don't need anybody to.

Give them any tips. most of us, mortals, need training and I do think it's a craft that  you get better, you get, I, I think something like dialogue, it's something you hone, it's a skill you really hone. And some people have a, maybe a little bit more of a knack going in than others.

And some people are just can visualize action scenes and others are great with character. It's very hard to be good at everything. I guess for people who really want to write screenplays but don't feel like they have what it takes, don't subscribe to that. I really think it's something you.

It's a skill you build it's like so many things you have to work at it. Most people are not brilliant screenwriters right out of the gate. and so I think just knowing that is, I hope, encouraging for people who wanna write because I, I really think the more you do it, the better you will get without question.

 you know, in terms of breaking into the business, It is really about networking. and that can happen in lots of ways. I know we're not in Los Angeles,  which is why events like Script DC are so useful. But there are other conferences, even going to festivals and meeting, producers that are coming through town or going to actor showcases and, connecting with a local actor and doing a short with them.

I, I definitely think it's an industry that, rewards people who take initiative and are persistent. And I think that brings me to my maybe last piece of advice, which is, People who wanna be screenwriters have to understand that rejection is part of the process and it's just part of the landscape at every single level.

 I think I used to believe that once you've made it to a certain level, it's easy. And I, I don't feel that, I feel like it's never easy. It's never easy because so many people wanna do this thing and there are a lot of talented people out there. And so the better you know yourself,  the harder you work.

And, and I think  having conviction about the stories you're telling and really knowing what you're trying to say will already set, a writer apart from someone who's just being derivative of stuff that's already out there. Because I think if it's cool,  yeah, I think really asking yourself if you wanna be a writer, what kinds of stories do you wanna tell?

Why does it matter to you? Why are you the best person to tell them? And I think having that kind of grounded perspective can be also really helpful.

Excellent. Well, so much wonderful advice. Could tell why, you're a great, teacher of this as well. so I guess before we, wrap things up, are there projects that you're working on right now that you'd like to share a little about or anything we should keep an eye out for?

I am working on a couple of things. I think my last piece of advice is don't put all your eggs in one basket. Cause you never know. things take 10 times longer than you think they might. They just do. And it is an uphill battle, especially in the independent space. I always have multiple things going on.

 so I have this, death penalty film, which is a period piece, takes place in the eighties. it's called Out of Darkness.  attached to direct to script that I did not write, but, helped the writer fine tune the story, but it was really  his idea and the premise is, that it takes place in a psychiatric hospital during World War ii, and it's just a really powerful and unique, World War II film that looks at mental health in the military. I have a new script that I just wrote, which is a comedy drama.

and I'm now developing a new pitch for a TV show. So, You know, trying to keep

lot going on.

Yeah, just trying to keep developing ideas  and that's honestly, I feel like that's what writers have, that no one else in film have is they can do what they love and it doesn't cost anything.

If you wanna make a film, it's a significant expense most of the time.

Whereas we can write any, anytime, any place, and at no cost.  and it's also a way to take control and just say, I'm gonna do this. And then if people like it, great. And if not, I'll write another one. and I think people who are successful, they just keep working and something will stick.

Wow. Yeah, keep at it screenwriters.  if people wanna learn more about, you and your work, is there a place they should go online to check you out?

yes, I have a website, which is, claudia myers films.com and, above the Shadows is also on,  Hulu and Amazon. Fort Bliss is on Amazon Prime.  yeah, I think my website or seeing my profile at au if, people have questions about the program,

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today. I know our listeners and myself, we learned quite a lot and uh, I know we're gonna see a lot more from you to come, so good luck with everything.

I enjoyed being here. Thanks for having me.