"The Corrections" by Jonathan Franzen

This book is excellent. This book is really a masterpiece, and it's absolutely insane to talk about it in the context of the other books. For you, I am dead serious.

Oh my god.

When he sat down to write it, he was like, this is going to be long.

I like the writing of this book.

What I don't like are the words.

He described something else as a sinus through which infection was bred.

Was that when the went into her sign no no, no.

That was Oh she didn't realize this man was doing ABC. She didn't realize this man was doing that, but she did know how to ride.

His Hello everyone, and welcome back to Mean Book Club Season twenty.

Is it really yeah? Big twow, that's really cool twenty you.

Know, but it feels like I have aged that much.

And honestly, the past six months, so much has happened.

I would say not for me. I'm like, so I look more youthful than ever thanks to I feel.

Like maybe twenty nine is my correct age. I yeh feel not. Don't ask me to do something to.

Physically, I would say, I feel thirty two. I feel like, you know, like that's the age where I stopped aging, and I refuse to accept aging. But here we go. We have an amazing line of books this season, and this first one is The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen.

Oh wow, they read that. They are really so.

It's a lot to fit in a brain.

They're so pretentious.

Yeah, they must have graduated in high school. Yeah all these things, that's what you're thinking. But let's let's introduce ourselves.

I just thought that they must have graduated school. Joke. That is a burn because sometimes we get little mean reviews, and one of them was like, do so like they haven't even graduated high.

School, which is so rude to everyone with a GED. It's so good everyone without a GED.

It's just yeah, I know a lot of really awesome eleventh graders who may or may not graduate someday. I don't know.

I don't know. That's weird.

You're not a teacher job.

I don't know any.

But like the contest, why are you hanging out with kids?

I do know.

Some young people, and I know that they're great people and they're smart, whether or not they go on to their eleventh and twelve years of high school.

Did you think there's not eleventh grader reep or you keep saying eleven, Like eleventh to me is like, oh, they're not eighteen. That's what to me you're saying. You're trying to say they're not.

Or you told a weird lie. You're either a creep or a liar.

I guess I just didn't want to insult I school students are currently in high school and they're gonna graduate in eleventh grade.

Is like, you know, I feel like we should be more concerned about insulting people who just didn't graduate high school and that are still very smart people.

We might insults.

Okay, if if you've shown up at the We're rain Okay, get ready, this is kind of might be a target tonight.

Wait, can I just say that. When Johanna started to explain it, I was like, Johnna, everyone knows, everyone knows this, But that's crazy. And so maybe I am stupid because I don't think every listener is just reading all of the reviews of the podcast and then.

In arms.

So maybe emails.

There was a really mean one that came in about me recently. We should read that at some point.

Yeah, I can empower it. All right, great, we'll come back again. We have read it.

I feel like it's a different.

Oh, it's a different one. Okay, that's fine.

All right, let me introduce myself because I have some explaining to do. Okay, I'm Clara. You might not recognize my voice. It's because I'm sick, and if it's bothering you, I just want everyone to know. I sent a voice message earlier today to the other three hosts and said, it's your call. Do you think this is acceptable? And they unanimously were like, you're fine too.

Yeah, you're sick. Quote so yeah quote.

If you're upset about my voice, please take it up with these three or my level.

I need everyone to know that in this voice note, she said explicitly, I'm not playing this up and then laughed a little bit, which indicates to me that typically she would it's like hello, But she.

Was like, I'm not even doing bad.

It sounded so bad I had to clarify that it wasn't fake. I was honestly priced by everyone's reaction.

I don't know some this you. You already had a unique voice, so I honestly feel like everyone was going to know this was you anyway, because they would just be like normal.

Okay, but they'd be like, what's up? Is she okay?

Okay, sure, sure, well, thank you for telling them they.

Were our listeners.

And so again we are the host of Me and book Club. We read New York Times bestsellers that you tell us like should they be because you read it for book club? You hated them? Whatever it is, I along with Clara and one of your hosts, Sarah.

Burton, I'm your other host, Jonas Crabis.

And I'm your other host it's Brina b.

Jordan and twenty seasons. Yeah, we've gotten that intro in the bag, I say, Clara.

Clara just made it crazy. Though we have an order.

Clara made it crazy. We straight went straight into the intros right after we said the book. There was no chit chat about is that hurt anybody's feelings? There wasn't a twenty minute tweet.

I see how long we've been recording. It was in twenty minute.

All right, I know that.

All right, guys, corrections Jonathan Franzen, Why the hell are we reading this? Okay? Well, it comes from one of our patrons, who an elite, an elite patron, he so elite that he gave us so munchy much money that we could not refuse but to read his book and that's something you guys can do too. Okay, check out our patreon. Become a patron, and we don't say no to you.

We can't take you anything you want, including this nine hundred.

Page It is required to be a New York Times best seller.

It is that is a realm.

I wouldn't say, that's true. Did you listen to our whole last season?

Okay?

Those listen.

It is a requirement. Mistakes are made, but that doesn't mean you just changed the whole foundation of who you are.

True, that's true.

All right. I guess we're easily tricked, so you can get us in all kinds of ways.

Yeah, please don't yeah, a little photo way. Okay, this is what George Saved Davis said. He said, I want you to read the corrections by Jonathan Franzen because I genuinely want to feel like I'm not going crazy. And I hope you hate this book as much as I did. Around the time this book came out, it was considered one of the most important novels of the twenty first century, and every inane paragraph was like a woodpecker on my damn brain. Why in the name of God did so

I like the twist on it.

George, this is actually a pretty long He goes off.

Sort of like the corrections. Yeah, there's two more full paragraph.

You know, honestly, George, you are given friends in with this. But do you want me to keep going with everything he said? He does? I think there's pretty good choice words.

Yeah, his middle brow writing warranted this elitist, priggish attitude. That's pretty good.

Yeah.

He has all the trappings of an upperclass snob and none of the actual style or pinage.

George frans And typifies the bespectaled nerds that should have been shoved in more lockers and kept there until they developed actual character instead of spineless douchary. He's like if Brian from Family Guy suddenly came to life and somehow lost eddy charm he had left.

Wow. Wow, Family Guy.

That's really evocative statement, and I do understand it one hundred percent.

Mm hmm.

So this is this this George He's he's, he's he's the writer himself. I would say, given what he wrote, Oh definitely he does.

He recommends. The only thing tangentially related to frans and that I would recommend is the Characters Welcome YouTube channel channel called pretentious. Author tries character comedy. So we'll have to. If you guys are looking for something to watch after this, check that out. I know, I will, I know, I will. Back to you Sarah.

All right, guys, so how did you read this book? Because, like we all discussed while picking books for the season, this is the length of this one typically would have had us throwing it to the side where we not forced our backs against the wall.

You know.

I'll start. I found a BBC radio play far shorter than the actual book, so I actually I actually listened to that first, and then I went to the book, which I kind of switched between audible and you know, skimming on the digital library version that I had, and I feel like I got it all, but did I miss some chunks? Definitely?

I feel like we had Oh sorry, I just feel like our journeys were so similar. I started with the e book and I got to about fifteen percent of the way through, but then I realized that we were recording today, and so then I found that BBC broadcast and I listened to it in its entirety, of course on three point three speed, not quite three point five.

Yeah, that was it. It was interesting. I mean, I actually really do think if this book is too much for you that like the BBC, I do recommend the BBC audio play and I and then I and then going uh. It made a lot of it more palatable to me because I was like, I had a basis to know what was going on, and I was like, oh, there's some parts I found interesting, so I was okay to hear more about it in the book version.

So that is interesting because I actually totally disagree.

Oh really, I like the BBC.

I loved it for the purpose of ingesting the book in advance of this podcast, but I felt like it was it did it in ways an injustice to the book. It was so shortened down that it was like just the plot and the plot itself not so compelling.

Crazy to say that taking something from twenty one hours to three would be an.

It. I was fighting. I think it felt goofier in some ways of the BBC, like because of the plot, but like I honestly, there's god damn so much you can cut out of this book that I was, yeah, totally fine with the cuts, and I I did enjoy the BBC. Okay, sorry Clara John And how did you guys consume this?

I listened to the audible unabridged for about five days straight and made no progress of all. Then I listened to the audio play.

All right, makeup? Yeah, do you want to keep going? She's past you dye take over to make up for all of you. I read it twice. I read it, no, jata what I mean? I read it once when it came out, and so.

When you were eleven?

No, I guess is that really when it came out.

It came out in two thousand and one.

Okay, well when it reached me, which was college, and I assumed it was a new release, because I assumed the entire world revolved around me. I guess it's like I've discovered a book. It must be now. But you know, the funny thing is I vaguely remembered it. I know I have it on the bookshelf, and I was like, I feel like it's one of those books that I

Oh well, okay, and just just because you did spie us a little and make fun of us, did you finish your listen?

I did? I did? Oh? I did, Like right before we started it went to the little the the end that it was like this has been corrections, and I was like, I made it all right?

Okay, yeah, well that fired on me.

Johnna was shaking her head. No, furiously, I didn't know what you were.

Going to say about me or do, but I didn't like where.

It was going. All right, all right, well you know you got to try, and you know you miss all the shots you don't take kind of thing. All right, Well, would you guys like to hear Sarah sums it up.

Yeah, yeah, all right.

I apologize for the length, but we're going to go through this. I need someone to play Sarah's thoughts.

I would love to.

Okay, Johnna, you're Sarah's thoughts. Then I need somebody to read what's in bold, which is the actual summary.

I'd love to. All right, I feel I feel like Claire should not.

Claire, shut up, Claire, don't cough, shut up.

Treat me all right, a little bit, alright.

So just this is the summary, and on top of hearing of the summary, you also get to hear my thoughts. While writing the summary and action.

Pressed for time, a condition that seemed both trivial and existential, Sarah Comma resigned herself to the task of summarizing the corrections, a novel whose resistance to simplification felt ironically like its most authentic quality, In a decision that felt at once cynical and strangely inevitable, she began writing the summary in the tone of mass market chit Lin, an uneasy nod to Oprah's book Club, whose endorsement friends and had once

The corrections chick lit addition, Enid Lambert just wants one perfect family Christmas, but her adult kids are a hot mess. Chips a disgrace, professor turned ex pat heart throb, Denise is a sexy chef, Cotton a forbidden fling, and Gary's a depressive control freak unraveling in suburbia.

The summation struck her as brief, perhaps even charming in its economy, though almost immediately she began second guessing its tone, its intent, its very existence. She hoped they'd like the writing, which was, of course, another way of admitting she still cared far too much about being liked.

Meanwhile, their father, Alfred is quietly losing himself to dementia talking to his feces, adding emotional chaos to the already messy holiday reunion.

Sarah wondered, not for the first time, whether including the detail about feces was necessary or merely gratuitous and appeal to the kind of base humor she pretended to disdain but increasingly relied upon. Was it honest, was it lazy or worse? Was it the exact kind of thing a person writes when they have quietly given up on being taken seriously.

Darkly funny, and secretly steamy. The Corrections is a dysfunctional family dramedy about desire, denial, and the impossible dream of going home again.

She wrote the last word of the summary at five point forty five pm. She noted the time because the digital clock's green numerals seemed to mock her sense of accomplishment, and in the sudden vacuum left by a completed obligation, her consciousness strifted with the peculiar aimlessness that it fliics the modern knowledge worker, until she found herself engaged in what could only be described as a kind of performative self gratification, another type of button pushing, conducted with the

Really, Sarah, it's really, really long, really good.

I think it needed to be.

Yeah, I agree. The I have to take issue with one thing, the.

Arrant comma at the beginning that I put it out.

Okay, things had as I and then I changed the tense. Okay, I'll admit it.

You.

You don't disdain poop humor. That's fair, that's fair, but me and very nicely, it is my favorite humor and you're absolutely correct about it.

And we get you. Guys.

Just as I read the book and like they talked about season would never stop talking about sex, I was like, maybe this is what it would look like if Sarah wrote a pretentious novel lots of lots of sex.

Yeah, that's true.

It did. I mean I did. I think I had appreciation for those moments as well. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie, but yeah, you get it.

I was.

It was hard to It's kind of hard and then also easy to write a summary. It's funny when you shorten what it is and I'm like, wow, not much happens.

Yeah, it's true, yeah, but uh.

Yet there was there's so much in this Johnna, do you have I do a pairing or n all right, it's time for Johna's.

Jeff, but it's Johnna's jugs.

Hello, what I'm loving it nice.

I like that. We'll keep that in. Okay.

I do think we need times because it didn't read the first.

Time just a little mouse.

Okay. So at first I was like, do I do something Christmas? Ye, because it's surrounded. The whole book is about this adult family coming back to Saint Jude for Christmas. If you are listening to this at Christmas time, I will always recommend a mad Elf. They do a winter Christmas logger. It's really great, highly alcoholic. I've recommended on the cast before, but that's not when we're doing this,

Know how Yeah, how'd you describe the flavor?

Like?

Can you compare it to the profile?

Yeah?

I mean it is like tasting it is sweet because you have a nice rose and you can taste the rose, the pop of the rose, but you're also having a tequila based drink. So I was also thinking about it. I was like, it's basically like a wine and a shot with every glass, and it's purple, and it is refreshing. I mean, it goes down really smooth.

So does hibiscus come in some sort of liquefied for all? My understanding is that that's a flower.

That is my understanding. So I don't know if they crushed a flower up. I guess it's a little hard.

Not a liqueur. There is hibiscus liquor.

Okay, that I bet it's hibiscus liqueur. As long as it's purple and unsweetened, that's what you're looking for.

There's also extract. It's a cranberry like flavor.

Okay, you guys, if you have a party and you want to wow people with your cocktails, a rose all day.

And then also read The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen and just talk about it.

Yeah, I must have like a book club or something. Yeah, that's crazy. It's crazy.

The referenced jin a munch Fields. It's a lot of drinking.

A lot of drinking happened because just a lot of words. All right. This book, uh, this book, The Corrections. It came out in the week before nine to eleven in two thousand and one, and it spent fifty weeks on the New York Times bestseller list. It got beyond that, you know, because sometimes we read books that like barely make the best seller list, but no, this one is a widespread critical acclaim. It won the two thousand and one National Book Award for Fiction. The two thousand and

Can you imagine feuding with Oprah? Not somewhere do you get off?

Yeah? And why why you think you're so much better than hers?

That's funny.

I could easily imagine feuding with her, but I think it would be a fool's Errand but I could imagine being pissed.

Yeah, so what happened?

She want to recognize you?

He won?

Lets her dogs everywhere on set? That's what I heard. Oh everywhere?

That's that's there's.

No hold on, hold on? Okay, I think how many dogs does she have?

Like?

Maybe it's not on purpose, Maybe it's like, I'm really busy getting my show ready. Could someone please look after my dogs?

Is this the assistant's fault. Let's blame the assistant. But why why the few?

Sure?

What I'm saying, I think is what you guys are all asking in your minds, even maybe not with your words, but in your minds. So in an interview with National on NPR's Fresh Air, he said he was worried that the Oprah logo on the cover would dissuade men from reading the book. He said, I had some hope of actually reaching a male audience, and I reader in signing lines. Now the bookstores say, if I hadn't heard you, I would have been put off by the fact it was

He was That is so spec did after having read this.

So yeah, So I think then she removed it from the booklest but I will say eventually, I guess he came back crawling and for his next novel, Freedom, she did pick it and they did kind of make up. But still pretty interesting. Oh.

Also, now I feel like I can imagine feuding with Oprah and it's me starting it right now. I can't believe she ever forgave him. That's ridiculous. Look, I do think a bad move.

I wouldn't have maybe said it publicly, but I do think he's probably right that having the Oprah thing. Would like that sounds true if that makes sense, that maybe fewer men would buy it if it had Oprah on the cover.

Sure, And if you don't respect women enough to want them to read your.

Book instead, yeah, that's that.

I feel like he could think it. But to go out and.

See, yeah, it wasn't It's not something you say in a public interview. Not not very bright. One final award. I must mention that this book was shortlisted for the Bad Sex and Fiction Award, which is a literary review They award books to the authors they deemed have produced the worst description of sex scenes in a novel. And I went and looked at the previous winners and it wasn't a book we had read. But I was like, maybe we should take a look at this list in the future.

Is it an annual award?

It is, it's an annual award. I think. I went and looked at what it was. I can't even read. Maybe a little later I'll read this. There they there was this section that gave it that honor, and it was it was a piece of furniture, chip and a piece of furniture. Yes, exactly, that was exactly so so you see it, you get it. We can maybe read it later. Will keep going, right now, Let's talk a little bit about Jonathan Franz and himself. He was born in nineteen fifty nine in Illinois. He grew up in

That used to be a women'sool getting there.

No, there's three college, No Swathmore and oh goodness, I should know this, Bryn Mah, Bryn Mar. Really, I think you're thinking of brid Mar. So so there are three colleges? Is that I like in a tri college consortium and it's Swathmore, Bridmar and Haverford and brid Mare is the.

Well I was just college. You went to school that was like majority women and still is so disrespectful of that it would just be interesting.

It would be interesting. No. No, but the people say, dude, know who went to Swathmore. I I kind of do see the friends in like it kind of like made sense to me, this kind of identity. I was like, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. It was one of those that you like, make your own kind of like make your own majors and kind of do whatever. You know, real laisse fair real like fartsy artsy, fartsy liberal arts. Anyway, that's that's just some intel. Okay. So he got a full Bright scholarship,

Really easy to move to New York when you're married already. I would imagine, why are we're doing this together? If he can make it, he can make it anywhere. Although to do with moving alone, that was a.

Bit of why their marriage fell apart, because I think he had more success than her and that started the release stefs from his perspective.

But yeah, who would like that?

Why his dad did have Alzheimer's Just saying that's relevant to and passed away that's relevant to the story, and just his writing style, I would just say, he wrote. He was asked by The Guardian to contribute what he believed were tense, serious roles to a Bye Bye verse bagging writers, and he included treating the reader as a friend and avoiding the Internet, which seems impossible at this time to do. I don't understand it, but I there's

I'll be here to correct you.

Correct love it, love it, But just quick our review the characters, because this is mostly around them. These family members. There's the Lambert's. Alfred Lambert is the patriarch, a retired railroad engineer, and he's the one with Parkinson's disease, dementia and dementia. Enid Lambert she's the one who wants to have one last Christmas. Gary is the eldest. He's the banker living in Philadelphia with Caroline and three sons. He's

Really only important.

Anybody feel connected to any of this characters, Anybody anyway where connect.

So when I first read about this book and I was like, oh, great Parkinson, So my dad is Parkinson relatively, I don't know new Ish and I was ready to be pissed. Then I forgot about that, and while I was reading it, I was like, oh, wow, that sounds a long So he did, I think? Yeah? So then I was like, oh, he's he must have really experiened.

Did can't get him there?

I guess, yeah, I can't get him there. But I thought it was interesting my personal journey with that. Remember I texted you guys. I was like, well, I'll call out the bullshit on that.

Oh yeah, like for not.

I wonder if I literally was like, I guess that happens to all people. Yeah, I didn't even think this character has the same disease.

I mean, And in this book, France and does talk about all like there are a lot of top topics he touches on, and he does he's very worthy, but obviously he attacks them with so much information sometimes like well it's hard to doubt him, like all the stuff about I mean, I guess what it's called literary realism, but he's talking about like the railroads and stuff and a part of me was like, is this any that's true?

That Lithuania even like heard about it, because they just seem like such an easy target. It'd be like just pick like a country that's never gonna like, you know, this book exists. And I can say that because I'm a quarter Lithuanian.

Yeah, and apparently are you. I didn't know though, So what how did you feel reading the parts about Lithuania?

You're fucking pissed? Yeah, I've never been there, It's it sounded.

Right, I'm I'm how horrible it sounds.

Yeah, it sounded like they would be having financial difficulties the post Soviet era. It sounds like sand might be their main export.

Yeah, they can gravel.

That sounded very feel like the rest of this book, this perfect book that I loved very much. Wait, really, yeah, this book is excellent. This book is this book is a masterpiece. And it's insane to even have it on the cast to talk for you in the context of the other books. Am I I am dead serious?

Oh, in this cast you called it you essentially called it forgettable.

Wow, I've lived a lot of life since I read it before. But I'll tell you what. These quotes I wrote down weren't forgettable. They're mastered.

Well, you didn't forget them once.

So you just you wrote You didn't write down quotes you wanted to mock. You wrote down quotes that you just thought were beautiful and wanted to share. Is that right, Johnna, Yeah, you must miss it beautiful at some level.

Yeah, that we're going to destroy them.

You must know.

I did write down two bad ones. Just like they're not bad, it's just the metaphors he uses were pretty like that's kind of insane.

Yeah, yeah, did they involve breasts in some way, or nipples or the phallis.

It was, oh my god, and I like black vinegar beating on white china was how he described someone's iris. And then he described something else as a sinus through which infection was bred. So those ones were kind of funny. But then he described the Enid No, no, no, that was different. The Enid and Alfred relationship. He has this absolutely incredible quote which was like, so h Alfred was uh, he said old things, but he had a young man's face, and so enis settled for him, and life simply became

They're all trying to get to the version. Okay. I will also admit that I do also agree with Johnna that this is a good book. Yes, it is, but I can understand why people would dislike it. I guess, like George, perhaps I just I do. I do agree that like, oh ideally I would love, like, you know, two hundred pages to be edited out of this book.

What I want to say is I like the writing of this book and I think it's good. What I

I can agree, this.

Is what you liked. Jerman.

I take show with.

This description of Denise because we're talking about when she was eighteen, she was having sex with one of her dad's coworkers, and what she didn't realize was that he was using her to get back at her dad because it was a power move for him to sleep with the daughter of the man he hated. It's actually that's not what the heartbreaking set of the book.

But I agree with you, Okay, I agree with you, Sabrina in that I don't. I think it's hard. Is like I don't relate to the the the Denise the character. And probably the best way for me to describe it is, have you guys seen Yellowstone, the show Yellowstone? Okay, it's like Beth Dunton. To me in Yellowstone, it's like it feels like a man wrote a man and then just was like, but now it's a woman, Like yes, and

Thank you malice time our old time mouse.

Uh so, yeah, but I do agree that I this book. I also did find it very male centric. I did was interested, Sabrina to hear your take on her like sexuality and inability to and like going back and forth or whether like you were like did you see any truth of that? Or was that just do you think he was just using that to represent something else that was interesting to me.

I was excited about the prospect of it a little bit from the audio play, right, it's like, oh, but then the way that it's described is just like, listen, maybe somebody else could have this experience, but it's certainly not my experience, where it's just like, well, you know, I decided that this isn't right, and then she just like keeps deciding that she's like she's like, now I'm done with men. Now I'm done with women, And it's

Interesting.

And the scene that I was thinking about that frustrated me was when she the first woman that she dated. If I can just read, they fought a lot. They're fighting life like the sex life that so briefly preceded. It was a thing of ritual. They thought about why they were fighting so much, whose fault it was. They fought in bed late at night, they drew an unguest on unguess reservoirs of something like libido. They were hung over from fighting in the morning. They fought their little

Yeah, just as you were reading it, I.

Feel like that's supposed to be like make you think of fuck their little brains out like that. I know you.

Brains.

Yeah, I don't know the little part.

Yeah, it's the little Yeah.

That's fair. That's fair. That's fair.

It's like, don't worry your pretty little head about it, honey, Yes, bite your little head off.

They're not fighting about anything real. They'll have their Let the little dogs go at each other. Yes, no offense to little dogs, thank you. Okay. It's funny that I actually had an example of us, like a sex scene that I thought was like, actually so sexy. I was like, that's like so oh, I thought it was like a really hot scene. But now that I'm well, now that i'm reading it, it's like all about how he being a man made her into a woman. Oh yeah, it's

That line I liked by the way his mouth.

Made her thighs into a woman's thighs, her whatever into a cunt. I loved that it was like his touch made her hips and a woman's hits in her. I thought it was also like very funny.

Like, yeah, I do think most of it's funny.

I thought that was like really good. But as I'm reading it through this new lens, I am seeing that it's like his touch from a blank nothing blob a plato into.

And like that's what I'm saying, is like I love the way that that's written, but I don't like those words interesting.

Yeah, I do like what.

You're saying, Sabena, I like what you're saying.

Plus, no, I think that's the point. I think that's a fair issue with the entire character of what's to say, Denise, that's not the name, is it.

And even like talking about Enid, like later in the book, it's like referencing She's like the day she conceived Gary, then the day they conceived and it was like, is that what Enid's good for is conceiving children? Like I think I was already on a roll.

I was already start to look.

Yeah, it's easy to find.

She is. It's okay, I will say, as as as as many of us are a person who has kids and deals with like mother in laws and like parents about over like holidays and the importance of Christmas and all that. There was a lot with Enid that I like felt pity about and like made me feel bad about and like understanding like her obsession because I see it like in real life. Yeah, like in my life reflected and then also sorry to go to we know. We even talked a lot about Gary, but a lot

It's funny because I feel like Enid is the whole She's the whole heart of the book. She's the main character, and she is when you look at her through the lens of her children or through Alfred, she seems like this really simplistic, sort of pathetic character who's like her whole life is just her family, and she's like old and kind of dotty and annoying. But like I think as the viewer, you're supposed to see Enid as much more than that, as this like whole and complex person.

Done this, Yeah, yeah, I know. And you're like it's it's like I'm understanding the kids and like why they do those things because I've done those things. But yeah, it definitely pulls your heartstrings for like, oh, the things I'm doing to my family or like my mom or my mother in law.

Yeah, I think that I would have had a different opinion before I had children, because you don't really understand the sort of self sacked, like the extent of self sacrifice. It's just like yeah, like, yeah, a mom is supposed to do that, so goes later loser.

Yeah, And I think like, oh, now.

I just want us all to wear beels for what day?

Why is that so hard? But also, like you know, if you've ever seen someone like take care of someone who's aging, and you kind of see the craziness of it and like the complex things and hoops that they're jumping through to like keep care take care of the other person, and as an outsider, you're just like, this

Yeah, or worrying about what her kids do and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All the comparisons to the wealthy neighbors.

Yeah yeah, oh yeah.

I know a guy who there.

I was like her.

My mom and the mom were friends, and they were like that family was like a forest friends and we all hated them. And the oldest son like works selling ad space in some catalog that happens to be owned by the Washington Post, and his dad says he works for Washington.

Oh my God's god, my mom said.

I was like, told a neighbor was like talking about SNL cast members, and my mom was like, that's Johnna's friend. And I was like, what are you talking about? Because I live in New York City.

We did a show once together. Listen, ye fairness.

I feel like she could genuinely believe that. It makes me think of how your aunt one day in high school was like, I've found the perfect man for you. He lives in the area, he is hardworking. Sydney Crosby, you know, my.

Hand was like caught like for like a couple months because I was lifeguarding at the pool where the Lemus swam and Sidney Crosby like lived with them. He was new to the penguins. My hend was like, I.

Don't like he was new to the penguins, but he was like almost like immediately the captain, like he was immediately the the most.

And the way It's like I've I've found a man for.

Man every woman wants to like in this.

If you don't know, if you know hockey, you know how silly this is. If you don't, if you're for Pittsburgh, you know how and say that is if you're not, it is like a kin to being like, you know who seems like really nice. Liam Hemsworth his brother Christopher is like, no, yeah, that's very funny.

But she might have been right. She might have been right, like may not be off right?

I mean yeah, sure for sure, I'm would have been incredible.

Thank you. I agree, I think I have I have never heard of Jonah.

I've never heard of Jonah Ice skating. She has a lot of those sort of hobbies, but I haven't heard of ice.

Get your ears checked.

She's doing ice skating stuff, all right. I don't know.

I say, we could talk about the turd.

The turd. I did find that funny. I found it disturbing and upsetting. But I was like, let me just.

My father is not incontinent. I know, I said there was a similarity that wasn't.

But well, you know what, I want to embarrass that part. That part, as far as I thought, it's like my grandfather had dementia, my grandmother and they're like, I've definitely dealt with incontinence with them, and so kind of to me that stuff, It's like, yeah, they don't mean to like it's I don't know. I mean maybe also I deal with it with my child as well, where it's just like Jesus Christ.

Yeah, poop is like nothing to me anymore. By the way, you got to watch train Wreck Poop Cruise on Netflix.

I won't okay, it sounds like it's a documentary that is triangle of sadness.

I don't want to I do want it.

I don't want to know is a non stop laugh.

I need that.

I need that, So I will check that out.

But one more times it's called train Wreck colon Poop Cruise on Netflix.

Check it out.

Yea cruise. I've definitely seen it. I definitely thought about starting it. Sorry, thank you.

But one of the things they like made the passengers do, I guess if you don't want to talk about poop, like fast forward.

There's also a cruise in this book, so we're really very relevant.

If you're not interested that like fast forward like five minutes because I'm about to talk about poop a lot. So one of the things they tell the passengers to do on the Poop Cruise is like poop into red biohazard bags because the toilets will overflow if they don't, and everyone like flips out. They're like, I can't poop into a bag. It's disgusting. And I was like, I don't know if it's the years of having a dog,

Nothing paid a lot of money for cruise and then they're making and you poop in a bag and you're just angry.

Oh, I'm asking to come money back, but I'm gonna poop in that bag.

Well guess what they so they created poop Alley, and then poop Deck and then poop Cruise.

Those are worse things. Those are worse things.

Have you guys ever tried to travel? Jeane? I did it a lot when I was pregnant. It's like a women's ere.

In all homes.

Okay.

I think I got at plastic thing and then it has a bag.

Oh no, I guess not that specifically.

I think Sarah gave me one once as a joke, but I never used it. Oh wow, it.

Wasn't a joke. It was a serious presence and you didn't use it. I am did.

You like keep it on in the car gyp in the car which.

You don't wear it? It's not like which is hard. Actually, that's such a good idea for pregnant people, because like there were times where like I couldn't need was out and needed a bathroom and like couldn't didn't have access to one.

How do you covertly do that?

You do it in the car.

You do it.

It's all in the car. It's all in the car. Okay, I did l like once? Wow, tricky it's a little tricky, but.

Wow, I'm not in the car that much, so not to you guys. You guys want to talk about some things. Oh you're want to talk about Chip's affair with that student Melissa.

No, the yeah, that was that was sick.

It was I I I kept I didn't understand why Melissa wanted to have sex with him.

I guess, yeah, that was My big thing is like overly she came in and then you rejected her and she came back really like.

Yeah, like absolutely not. There's no world in which that's.

A college full of attractive boys.

Hurt ape something you can have.

But it's like and she had a healthy relationship with her parents and then like I don't have It was like, none of this adds up. This is doesn't make sense to me.

He's not described as attractive. I mean, I guess there is like the attraction that people do have a dynamic. Sure, but she waited till after she was done his class. Yeah, okay, I know, like the lucky it wears off after you're out of their proximity and they no longer have that.

Right. I was surprised, right what had happened?

And you see it for what it really was. You're like, that was crazy that I found that person attractive?

Yes, yes, And then and then I was disturbed at the point when Chip was like mad at her for being happy, like and she was going to go meet his parents and he had like a fantasy about raping her or something that I don't like this.

I don't like this.

Yeah, me get it.

His whole interaction with her is so crazy, like you know, obviously you know they're going to have sex because he starts fixating on her in class and mentioning her bear mid drift her breasts, I'm sure.

And then.

He can't call on her because he's afraid that his voice might quiver. And finally she's like rude at the end of the semester and she's all like, you just want us all to agree with you, which, by the way, like makes it seem like she got it, like she got that he was egotistical, you know, like that doesn't sound like someone I'm attracted to. I'm not like, you're a bad teacher, you aren't smart, You just want us

Was good at making me believe lust or or love in that in that falling in love type way, like because then we also have Denise and her many and her many affairs, and you never felt like, especially with when she lost her rigidity, you never felt like, oh I get why she did this.

Yeah, Like I feel like it goes back to it's like he wants those male readers, right, that's why he doesn't want Oprah. And what's interesting is, you know, back to what we were talking about, like so much of the book feels like a real struggle, like you know, a real way people might operate, and then these types of things are not real at all, and it's just like, ah, yes, the middling looking man does get fucked by the twenty year old sophomore, Like you can live out that any man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really like what you're saying.

It's hard to just like ever even imagine this happening around me in college, Like I didn't know anyone that was sleeping with their professor. But I never ever had like a teacher crush. I can't think of even like I.

Might have had teacher crushes, but they were not in Colone.

I had one, but it was a grad student teacher.

Yeah, they were usually the young hot on right. Yeah I did have like I maybe had, but I might have had some like intellectual like where I wanted someone to see me as smart and therefore, I mean, but I never I wouldn't have. Yeah I would have know, but like I but I could see I was almost certainly a gay man.

They're easy to lie, I do.

I do think Denise. With Denise, it's it's supposed to be like, oh, I mean obviously showing that she's like fucked up because she the way she thinks is just like going to like go have sex with this guy because she just feels like she owes him in some way. I feel like that was which I do. I that was the only thing that they said that I was, like, I can remember being younger and like kissing boys because I felt like, oh I had to, or like I

Into and maybe much older than why not.

I mean, I'm talking about being like a teenager and stuff like I don't mean similar age. I just mean she but it only like it made me understood her to a point like beyond that. I was like, okay, but she went way farther than that, and I don't I don't get it, but yeah.

It made me feel bad for her. Yeah, so I was feeling something. It's not the kind of feeling I liked that have though. It's like, you're a writer capable of making people feel things, and that's what you picked.

This does line up with everything I know about you, Clara. Uh. When Clara reads kids books, she skips past the sad images. And what I mean is like if it's a book of emotions that are like happy, said flip flip, happy, excited.

Okay, I did do that, but then oh yes, And then when I had to say it out loud to John and Sabrina to explain what I was doing, I was like, oh, I.

Well, I understand the feeling of like this isn't I definitely go past those faster than I sit in the fun emotions for those emotion books.

But do no different different anyway, John just monotonely happy, fright, excited.

Emotions. I mean, in terms of plot, there are some fun things that happen, like Chip his the woman he's sleeping with has a husband, the Lithuanian who hires him on to write for the website essentially for reasons that still aren't clear, flies him to Lithuania. And there's like a lot of that's like a very goofy section that I I liked because it was silly and funny, I guess. But he eventually, like h is flying away, like he gets raw. He's got to making a bunch of money.

Something that I don't know if it is funny or just pretentious, was both Chip's porn was I'm sure I can't pronounce this. It's French sent on the cinema eratique.

It's like, oh, I forgot about that.

That's so crazy.

Yeah, maybe a different time. I think it's just a different time.

You think it's funny, of course you do. You're a friends and supporter.

The books a masterpiece, like no exaggeration, The book's a masterpiece, so you.

I would love to know how many women were on the committees that gave it all those awards. What the breakdown was number one?

Okay, that is honestly crazy.

Looks like all of you.

She didn't give it a literary award.

She tried to mate it on her book list.

Maybe she didn't read the whole thing because it is very long.

Yeah, the BBC play wasn't out by then, so she couldn't have done.

Maybe whoever summarized it for her kind of.

I didn't it looks.

I really struggle.

I didn't mention this, but the you might be wondering, you know, like why hasn't this been turned into anything? And he Jonathan Franzon and Noah Bombak did write a series and they might have even filmed a pilot, but then HBO like didn't take it because they thought it was like going to be too difficult to follow, which I thought was funny because I'm just like, there's definitely like I feel like they could try again. I just feel like HBO takes stuff that's like way more his proof. Yeah,

But now that we have, like I mean, I know, to compare anything to Succession as crazy, but it's like that's sort of a very character driven like you know, family peace. Like I just I feel like this is a character study more than anything. Yeah.

Yeah, with people that are ship like everyone's like a little shit yeah, like there's uh And I guess I do appreciate that, like when everyone's a little shitty Seinfeld should talk about nothing. Yeah, he blah blah blah. I'm just looking again at George's issues. The writing itself sucks and is mostly derivative of the worst of Updyke and annoying postmodern tingents inherited from David Foster Wallace. I do think he had a relationship with David Foster.

It's like, really, it sounds like they'd be friends.

Yeah.

I also think I can.

See the Updike comparison, and I thought of it myself, but I think that Updike Updyke is my much more random and is like goes for shock value, and this is this is specific, like there is a special that makes it. It's like it really hits. It feels very truthful. Often I am there that does acrobatic trips.

You're right, You're right. I guess now that you're saying that, I was like, what Updyke every rand and then you said that, I was like, oh yeah, no, no, no, I guess Hotel New Hampshire.

Yeah, remember we hated it.

Yeah, it's not how it sound New Hampshire to me. I also just find I do find a lot of his like observational stuff, funny, and I do like it within this book, like even the what was it called the Medicine Overall or correct All? Like I thought that was fun and then they were like, you know, that's the name of like poop medicine, and they're like, I don't care, and I don't know.

I just liked humor for you got your number.

Yeah, that's probably why, But I just I just I just I liked every I liked everything about that and the way he kind of like you know, even talks about like prison system, Like he he finds ways to like have some criticism on like almost every aspect of American society. And you know, I will also admit that it's it is very obviously a very waspy, upper middle class book. And it's also possible that one reason why I related is because maybe that is more my background

Yes?

I did.

I do need to interject that Hotel newritten by.

John oh Ship. Jesus, we went up up.

No, we've never done We've never up run Rabbit run, Okay.

Now, wonder I was like I didn't understand you. I've never read Updyke, and I don't.

I didn't, Okay, George, we don't have the same taste, so you're not You're you are, Okay, I.

Just I just have to do that.

No, Claria, we're very glad. I'm sure George probably was.

Yeah, honestly, yeah, George really smart. I'm embarrassed that he George.

And we read what you wrote. George. Yeah, if you've read, you're maybe mad at us. But remember we don't all like it, and we have different reasons for not.

Like I like it, I didn't. I like, Yeah, I can appreciate that.

I'm like, I'm like seething, and I just I need I need Johnna to get away from liking it.

I know, in fact, I know real this like divide between Like I do feel like we both are feeling really passionate about this book. Yeah.

I also I also feel like, as a writer, I know I can be wordy, and so in some ways that makes me like almost feel for Frans in that like I wish I could get away with being as wordy. Whereas like because of the type of stuff I've studied or writing I've done, I've been like no you cannot be wordy. You cannot be wordy, you must like cut it all out. And so I think I have some jealousy there that I'm like, oh, but it would be fun to just like ramble for pages.

Well maybe that's why the rest of us can't.

I I enjoyed that aspect of it.

Well, it didn't feel a little bit like when you sat down to write it, he was like, this is going to be a long It was a very irritating just because we have a time limit and lives and stuff. And I could feel that with every meandering description of something that you could not describe at all. Actually, but some of.

The I just like, sorry, yeah, some of the descriptions are just so beautiful and you've never heard anything like it before, and it just rings so true. Like one of my favorite ones, which is real quick, is that you know, the dad has parkt Seid, so his hands are shaky, it's hard for him to eat, and Enid is annoyed because he doesn't wear a tie somewhere, but then she goes but suit times we just cannon fodder on the front lines anymore. It's such a great description.

But is it that reminded me of my grandparents a lot. Their relationship really reminded me of my grandparents.

I really liked, I'll sayza pieces of it that I liked. In the very beginning of the book, she alludes to like smelling urine, and she's like, but it simply couldn't be urine. And then you like, very slowly find out that he is absolutely skeeing in like these jars downstairs and at like, I'm not describing it well, but the way that he revealed that information I thought was really

Just pissed me off.

Yeah, pissed me off because of the potential that was there, because it is so.

I do too. I think that's fair if I.

May attempt to bridge or the divide between John and Sabrina, or at least someone must. I think that Jonah's reaction might be like recognition that this person can use the art of writing and comparing it to other books that and that she sort of feels beholden to, like elevate that like this is real writing, and we must respect that. That seems fair and that that's maybe why you're calling it.

Yeah, No, I think that feels completely fair. And I would just add that this book is a masterpiece period and it could stand against any great literature.

Okay, will it tried?

All right? At this time, I would like to read the An excerpt. The night of Alfred's seventy fifth birthday had found Ship alone at the tilt and legs pursuing sexual congress with a red chaise long. He was kneeling at the feet of his chaise and sniffing its plush minutely inch by inch, in hopes that some vaginal tang might still be lingering. Eight weeks after Melissa Paquette had lain, there ordinarily distinct and identical smells dust, sweat, urine, the

I would just want to answer quickly no before we move on.

I just feel like this is a thing or like someone so fucking a pie or whatever, And I'm like, but it's not about the thing. It's maybe like it's about what's in your head. No, I just mean, like I would assume it's like he's like more just like masturbating on to something. But in his it's the fantasy and his head. It's nothing to do with the actual. I don't know. That's just how I Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how.

I, I will sayd me like really imagining what this Shasee looked like.

I was like, yeah, I don't understand it was a redhead. Let's start there.

Buttons buttons in the back that.

We were looking for the red head? Oh my god, what color hair did uh Denise have? Did we have any redheads?

What are we doing with the button?

Yeah, fingering them.

I don't understand the button.

I can't. I don't understand that. I don't believe it.

And were they like depressed buttons where they popped out buttons.

I was imagining depressed.

I was too. I don't know, but that was that was also the segment that got it nominated for that sex.

I think that was the part that John was saying was a mess.

Yeah, we could do ask the author, but do you guys, do you guys want to do and ask the author?

Sure?

I made that really unappealing. I'm so well, I mean, we said yes, yeah, you all said sure. So some reason? Did I write a question down for us the authors? The other questions?

I haven't prepared?

Okay, all right, Jonathan, Yes, tell me how long did it take you to write the book? And what did you do when you finished it?

It took seven hundred years to rest book. And when I finished it, I printed it all out and I put it on top of my desk and I sat down and I looked at it, and I just thought about how fucking smart I am.

Thank you, Thank you, Jonathan. Now, Jonathan, Yes, how long did it take you to write the book? And what did you do when you finished it?

Well, when I think about time and how long something took, I look to all the women that I've had sex with, and it took me through three women and their supple breast. And once I was through those three women, I finished the book and immediately came on the pages beautiful sexy.

Jonathan, how long did it take you to write the book? And what did you do when you finished?

It took me six days, Sarah. And when I finished, I closed the document and I opened it and I hit control F and I word searched breast just to see how many times I said it in the whole document. And I didn't change anything. But now I know one hundred and seventeen times, so I I could rib it like I would any friend.

A friend, it is actually forty nine times.

That's press though, don't we got to consider oh yeah, you know, yeah, other descript And he asked so many descriptors it's hard.

It would be hard to even know. Okay, so this is what he says. He wrote eighty percent of it in a year. I was on a federal jury. When I was finishing it. I came to a point when I had two days left to right the last section

But that doesn't make jury.

How long.

Did the jury take nine years? If he wrote most of it in one year.

I think he'd been thinking about the twenty percent must have taken. I'm assuming twenty percent took just starting it. Maybe it took nine years and then he actually sat down and wrote most of it in a year.

Endings are hot. I don't know, I don't know.

I just like that he he cried after he finished it, and I thought that was very sweet.

Don't let the mail readers know.

It feels pretentious. It feels pretentious.

And pretentious and and pretentious. No, you're right, you're absolutely right.

Like it's a little close to my joke cancer.

Yeah you won, Yeah, yeah, Claire, I want yeah, Look, he does have week we can't agree. You know, he's at least in this book, maybe at least around sex. The female characters are weak. I feel like, yeah, fair. I think another criticism he's had for like moral simplicity in the books. That doesn't bother me, though. I don't mind that, Like I don't need to know where he lands morally as a writer.

It is morally simplistic about this. I think it's quite complex.

No, the criticism is just that, like you like, don't know as an what his perspective is, like, he's not like giving you who's morally correct in certain situations.

Yeah, and I think I like that.

I don't want that.

I don't bite him anything. Yeah, want anyone telling me who's yeah correct?

I think that's called me waiting. I think it's good.

I just googled is Jonathan friends in sexist? And in twenty fifteen when he was promote in his book Purity Purity, he got a lot of criticism for being sexist, and he's quoted as saying, I'm not a sexist. I'm not somebody who goes around saying men are superior, that male writers are superior. In fact, I really go out of my way to champion women's work that I think is not getting enough tension.

It's just like so I couldn't. I couldn't, I could not helping them.

Because the help'.

If we're talking about this, I will also say that people have like asked why he's like always like white people in his books, and he's just like he said, like I don't have many black friends. I know, I know, it's just like my dude, Like I I don't think he is very good p R like there's some things that I'm like, look you, that's not that's not the right thing to say.

I think experience or something.

Yeah, are like I yeah, there's so many bet people better than me. I don't know, or like maybe you say I would like to improve on this in the next like are you try to grow whatever?

Anyway, I've chosen to befriend only yeah right right?

So many different answers you have?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right? Where are we in this bitch? Is there anything else anybody wants to talk about? Read the book particular? Do you guys want to go to like goodreads five star reviews?

Just do it?

I found yeay, Jonath, thank you.

This is from Jason, a male reader Jonathan, So don't flip out a man man? Read it? Okay? Friends? And who's are you mean? As well? I try to find a way, even if it's.

Great shopping sides.

Fransin's writing. This is from Jason. Franson's writing is impeccable. Not only does his understanding of complex familial relationships fascinating me, but his ability to capture these characters, all five of them, with such depth. I think that really drew me in as a reader. They are flawed, emotionally, utterly selfish, and yet each of them has the capacity for loving one another, even while recognizing their inability to stand up for each other for more than five minutes at a time.

My god, all right, Johnna, did you just find did you find any funny five star reviews? I didn't realize when I was handing this over to you that it might just be.

A fabian an impulsively readable work of fiction.

This what does that mean? Pulsively relulsively like I.

Have can't put it down. I think it's it's a sort.

Of can't put it down telling.

The opening vignette was a deep dive into the subterranean conflicts of a middle class home in Middle America.

All these people are fucking pretentious, high on themselves. I think a lot of people might like this book because it's like it gives you a bit of be like, yeah, my fa was fucked up, Yeah it was.

Fucked up, Like like my family was crazy, as like an excuse for like like why am I the way I am?

I need some And I think this book gives them that feeling.

Kelly, I'm just like reading my reviews and getting chills. Should I keep going I don't.

Know rates all right?

All right, hey, rates.

One out of five one for is it writing a melody, minus a lot for the length, minus a lot for the women stuff, minus a lot for pretension, and that math equals one out of five very good math.

Yeah, I'll just go next. Look, do I recognize that this is in a different literary echelon than most Meme book Club books? Yes, I'm not stupid, But I think that that makes it worse, because this is the type of thing that we are elevating and referring to as a masterpiece. And I'm sorry, but that's poisoning our brains. One out of five beautiful.

I'm so glad to have you.

All right, I'm gonna start off with my my rating on the BBC.

Sure, yeah, five out of five.

Really into the BBC. Extra sound effects were all they were really on the music. They took out a lot of the misogyny they did, although some of the stuff was edited it down. I like, like the affairs and stuff that made them a little more beautifully flawed kind of basic or like they just I'm not finding the right word. But anyway, okay, but the book itself, uh yeah, I'm gonna give it a four point five out of

I'm glad Sarah joined me here on earth and not in cool fantasy kidding. This is it is a five. The only book we've read ever in the history of our twenty years of doing me in book club that was better than this was The old Man in the Seat.

That's your team, Sarah.

That the opposite, that's opposite of this book, though in terms of word counts think about it completely different, very you know.

But also Hemingway doesn't preach. He lets you decide the morality of his characters, the.

Morality of the fish, my fucking guns.

Okay, now it's an attack. We've someone swung around, we're double attacking. Yeah. I thought it was funny. It was it was quick, it was insightful, quick.

And it moved me deeply.

Fantasy cuckool, I.

Cried, explaining to Matt, the reveal of the father at the end, when we find out he didn't take the more the higher pay at his job, which we didn't even talk about.

Oh, we didn't talk about that. I don't even agree. I mean if we wanted to, I don't know.

I mean we're wrapped up.

God, damn it. I had thoughts I'll eat them.

Yeah, it doesn't. It's it almost like it's hard to even talk about the plot because you we'd have to be like, well, to understand this, we have to explain this part. To understand this, you have to explain this part. It was small, intricate family dynamics. I teared up explaining them to Matt, and he was like, okay, all.

Right, well, can you give us an example of something else you've teered up explaining to Matt though, just just so we understand the spectrum.

Well, I could start crying right now thinking about there's this commercial about a dog. Basically, if there's an animal and a commercial, what happens in I don't want to talk about that food. It's like a commercial, is nothing too bad happens?

But does he have a bond.

That one get me?

Is it like it isn't a sp c A or is it like a dog something even more money a dog that starts eating one kind of dog food when he's a puppy, and then like, okay, it's dog is dog?

Okay? Now, John, I needed I don't need to pile on you, but I need to tell you, you know how your opinion of the office and how Pam is one of the worst written characters you've ever heard. She cries at a very similar dog.

Common JOHNA doesn't like Pam because Pam is a reflection.

Well is an example of that. It is an example of that.

Okay, so they found one normal human thing about her. Congratulations.

This is insane, is very much. I don't think watch I've watched.

I've watched. I watched so much. I watched it so much.

I don't think you've watched in order watched something. I just don't understand. All right, Well, you didn't see that.

This is hard for me because I felt like John and I were on the same team. But then she kept things being brought up that I disagree with John on, and it's making me hard to like the Office, Old Man, the Sea. And then I'm like, what am I doing here?

I mean, I can tell you my hate rates, my or not my My little fucker is that we're headed.

To Ah, yeah, yes, let's go.

Yeah, why didn't you go first? Start?

So look, I tried to earlier that like Oprah lets her dog shit everywhere.

I don't.

I wasn't able to find a record of that online, but I swear I heard it. But honestly, the fact that both of you guys were like, that's fine, go go get them some you'll have an assistant cleaned up the dog poop. No, I have to split my hate rate between both of you. It goes you and you there and you as well.

And that's from corner one Sarah Clara, all.

Right, would you rather her hit the dog?

No?

What would you rather use.

Her endless billions to train the dog not to poop inside? So nobody has to.

Clear all right, Well, the dogs in a new environment. And maybe he thought he was outside. It's a studio, isn't it.

It could be anything. Well, I don't need to.

I just don't want to publicly go against Oprah.

That's my I think she has many dogs and more than one had an accident and somebody bitchy pitched about it is what I think happened.

Okay, I stand down, and I'm scared to go against well, I'm scared to even say it.

All right, all right, Claire and I I got you.

She does stand down, stand up.

My vote it's half, so it's not a full vote for you.

I'll see how that alright, we'll see. We'll see how that goes first times.

Yeah, you might catch on.

Yeah, my vote is dedicated all one person. That person is the person who is elevating the patriarchy, forgiving misogyny and bringing up other misogynists that we didn't even need to talk about. Who some dumb, boring, pretentious vote about a man on a book on a boat. So yeah, Johna, you're gonna get my little vote.

I'm gonna vote for jonas well. Not just because she like keeps insisting that the book is so great even though she knows that there are plenty of things criticized about it. But remember when I was like, I'm gonna try hard to do a bridge between John and Sna. I was like trying to throw her bone a little bit, and then she like ignores that and votes half for me Jona. Yeah, right, But honestly, even if she hadn't done that, I would have voted for just for the book thing.

I have done the math. I see now that my vote is pointless.

Change that's it.

So I will just I will throw a vote at myself. I will say voting in myself because it seems as though you in a funny way, I'm getting away with sharing John's opinion but not not getting any.

Of the bagash.

And that's just that's a good point.

But before you look in, before you lock in, okay, I just want to remind you that our wonderful producer Blake does keep a running total. So your vote does.

Like he's going to do. Wait, what's going to happen?

Wait?

Are we going to really funny.

At the end of a final score?

It was funny last time because it was like it was like, clear, it's funny, it's funny.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay. I didn't know that was votes. I thought that was like number of little fuckers one, so I would you're right, it is number of little yeah.

But you know Blake, he's always up in his game. It's going to be votes next.

Time, all right, Well, next time we'll we'll make sure to hear the all right, well, congratulations Seanna, you won once again starting season twenty off on a hot streak.

Familiar, It's familiar to our listeners. I think it's a nice thing to do.

Thankes.

Everybody comfortable?

Can I say just to George, I feel like by and this is no shade to any other mean book club book, but by picking a real book, it really devolved into almost a real book club.

Yeah, George, close, clever?

Why not don we make I think that.

So some of us fought back against that by listening to the audio please.

But we thought how we tried. I thought I had the book, you know what, Speaking of college, JOHNA, I definitely had, like got this book in college, like I think I I must have been after Freedom came out. Yes, I think, yeah or something whatever.

And I remember with I hope they serve beer and hell and you were like I got it.

I was actually I got it because I was like living with my grandparents and I was like, oh, this the dynamics, which I actually I still feel like, Oh, I would have really related to it at the time. So just because I was living with my grandparents, but I did get it, and I just I never read it. I know I never read it because I was not familiar with the book. So next book we have is prep by Curtis Sitting Felled.

Wow.

Congratulations Curtis getting their third book.

Yeah, I think that's a record we've now this will be our first.

Wow, amazing three Curtis. As always, you can join our Patreon, become a patron of the Mean Arts, and as you know from this episode, if you give us enough money, we will read your book. So there's also a lot of other different there's a lot of other tiers where you get cool stuff, and we're gonna start bothering people in the tier where they're supposed to like be recording their thoughts on books to you know, actually do those recording so we can include them in the podcast because come.

We ask, and if you don't want to, that's okay. Yeah, I'll be bothered. I guess the last like one time then.

Okay, sure, sure sure. But also check out our TikTok, check our Instagram, and Blake is now putting stuff up on YouTube too, so you can find us a lot of key places. And yeah, and we got a cool website out, so check that out as well.

Thanks Sarah Good work. We're trying all right. Season twenty tag to cat