Eleanor Oliphant is Completely FIne by Gail Honeyman

Attatatatatastasatatatastasattattattatta and so Claire, you were saying the book made you Saturday, I just want to clarify that you're wrong to feel that it made me mad. How stupid she was after that kind of scary shit. Can I get a fucking fair tale ending? Please? If you haven't stopped listening to the castin or and had to goude your ear drums after hearing that, Clara, not to suck a damper in that, But neither you nor I caught that the

mother who was dead. Hello everyone, and welcome to me and book club. This week we read Eleanor Olafon is Completely Fine by Gail Honeymoon Honey we did. What a fun first and last name. I liked both Gail or Eleanor? Which one? I like both Gail and I like Honeyman. What a fun name. It makes me get Matilda, miss honey from Matilda. Okay, I don't know this well all right, but that's what I know Matilda. But I don't well, I was scared of a lot of things.

I was about to say, I feel like you love Matilda. Actually I would think you'd be like, yeah, stories with orphanages. We're pretty scary for me. She's got a parents close to home. Oh, I don't know. I just really didn't like all over twit. Like as soon as they were at the Boy for Sale part, it was like, turn it off. She's Matilda's little girl. She's parents that are really cruel to her, but she's got she got like superpowers. Yeah, like you,

I feel like you would have liked it. That's why the cruel part I think, is it a show, it's a book. It's a book. And what I'm referring to is the movie I Got You, Yeah, played by Marra Wilson. Yeah, of course famously. That's why I think. You know, I feel like you get as are scared of most things, even honestly, even being in the movie theater was a little scary for me. Okay, we had to walk out of Jumanji. Okay, that's that's a scary movie. Okay, I can give you that too much. You

would have been scary. It was, But I didn't watch a lot of movies. The TV girl, we would have been friends. I don't understand. I went to movies were a very young huge constantly I said, I'm Claire, just that you said thank you, but I want to make sure you heard me say. I don't think we would have. I also miss heard that. I did see that clear, because all she did was having to hang out the movie theater. That's what johnestly. I like spooky things.

We know, we know, we know. I'm often friends with people who like spooky things. That's how I've ended up seeing some spooky things, just trying to be included. And now I have to watch this. Yeah all right, yeah, well, if you're gonna not pussy out, but sure you can come hag well, I can quietly close my eyes. I mean, it's not gonna bother you. You're not even gonna know. Sure.

Anyway, we are mean book club. We read books that you tell us, uh you know, maybe suck like they're New York Times bestsellers, but you don't understand why your book club's reading them, and you really want us to rip on them. Uh so uh as always be or your hosts. I'm Sarah Burton, what's up. I'm Clara Morris, I'm Jonas Crabis, and I'm Sabrina. I that was a hard one. Rhythm uh did not follow the group energy. I heard it in my head. I'm gonna feel like I held in a sneeze, all right, So JOHNA, why

why who recommended this? Why are we reading? We're back to our friend Alessandra again because her recommendations are good and she writes funny little snippets about why we could read, and they're just catnipped to us. So there is what she had to say. I swear I do not seek out bad books, but here we are. Please do eleanor Olifan is completely fine. It is a pretty quick read and definitely mean book club material. The main character is

thirty, gross and therefore so old and decrepit. She has a hard time navigating computers, bikini axes in ordering a pizza without breaking a hip. She falls in love with a musician because despite being a deeply troubled and wounded individual, she's also super shallow. She tries to enter society and is thoroughly confused by everyday things. Would have simply been impossible to avoid on this point. She's basically cosplaying as a human due to some pretty awful trauma and abuse,

and yet the book is marketed as quote funny. I have a similar problem, Alessandra. I have a similar problem. Oh, just like to the character or to the So what she's saying right here? Okay, I was told this was a funny book, and then I would like it. Okay, incredible you had a way to interrupt someone who's not even here. In fairness, she continues, I think there was potential for a good book that is never fully realized. Kudos to Gail Honeyman for making a character so pitiable

and yet unlikable. I think as a society we should look into why books written about abused women sell so fucking well. But for now, I will just continue to recommend them to you guys. So here we are at the end of her review. Now I was agreeing with her, and it was like I was cheer hyping her up. Sure, I'm sure she enjoyed it. I'm sure she's like. I like to think, Claire, that you were saying you just like relate so much to Eleanor that you're really that was

what you're saying. There was one line I liked that Eleanor had. It was like, she makes horrendous jewelry and sells it to idiots. Yeah, full time I read Eleanor, I thought Clara would love this person, they would be friends. Really, you didn't like music, I thought that would be a big point of relation for you. Guys. Well, I don't dislike it in the way that she dislikes it. Okay, I don't understand. I don't understand how it's different. You're gonna understand. And she has

that little inner monologue. It's like mean about people, but funny. It's like a little I guess I think I'm a lot funnier. And okay, you're very very funny, thank you. Yeah, I won't be demonstrating that for a bit now because the pressure's on. I'm gonna just wait and see shine. All right. So, how did you guys all read this book? Library Audiobook Classic dittohdo? Okay? Well, first of all, this

was a pleasure read for me several years ago. I believe I recommended it on this cast as a hey, if you want to get away from the dribble we read, give this book a try. I've also bought it for two separate people, so this was a happy second read for me. Given this to people unpleasant, It's unpleasant. It's very funny and very good. It's unpleasant. It's a great book. I think everyone. I've really liked it. Yeah, that's right, that's right. It's a great book.

You like to read about the abuse, you know what, Sometimes bad things happen and that's a part of life. And that's okay. I wanted more abuse, to be honest. Sorry, you guys, I'm kidding, Sabrina. Would could you sum it up for us? Sum it up? Okay? There are roles for everyone? Oh joy, Okay, I just want you guys to claim who wants to be about the same mummy? Okay, who wants to be eleanor? Okay? Too slowly? I tried to if people don't want to be her, I can multiple people want to go.

I got it. Oh yeah, I said. I tried to give it to John because she had just lost one, but I waited. I mean, I couldn't wait any longer. But I think voiceover is the better of the remaining two roles. The other one I'm going to do voiceover. No, I was gonna give it to you. Okay. It's just feeling benevolent today. That's very nice. Yeah, and I'll be Raymond any direction, Sabrina. I guess the one thing I would say is that the voiceover character

is not the same character both times, but the second one. First one is narrator setting the scene. Second one it tells you who it is, and then I think your voiceover will give the stage directions that everybody else needs to hear. Okay, perfect doing on my petite shoulders. Yeah, we see Eleanor Oliphant. She's thirty years old and playing, but has scars on her face. She has a devil on her shoulder her mother, and an

underdressed angel on their other shoulder, her work friend Raymond. In the book, they are not literally angel and devil. It's just the vibes, you know. I am Eleanor Oliphant. I work in accounts payable at a business. I don't have a computer of my own, nor do I know who SpongeBob SquarePants is. I like my life, don't like your life. Epathetic little dub dub, you are not worthy. Hey, Eleanor, you're okay? Do you want to come to a family function with me? Thank you?

I do think I'm okay. I actually have a boyfriend now, but yes, I will go on a series of dates with you. You do. Oh yeah, where did you meet him? A meeting of the WPS worthless people's society. Do you have information, mummy? We've not quite met yet. He's a famous musician. I love his music, You pathetic little Please insert more money to continue this prison call? And at all did you hear that you need to spend more money to talk to me? Pay it?

Pay it now? So what did your mom do to get into prison? Anyway? I don't know. I'm sure these cars on my face have nothing to do with it. Honestly, maybe I should kill myself or maybe we could have lunch instead. No talk to me, mummy. I'm going to have lunch with my friend. I have a cat now. Also, I got promoted at work, even though I thought that getting a single job was the end of the line, and never once contemplated my next step.

As you can see, I don't need you. I'm completely fine with that. Goodbye and scene beautiful. You are aware this book was set in Scotland? Correct? Yeah? Who's the you in that sentence? All of you? All of us? Okay Scottish accent? Give us? She wasn't Scottish. Character wasn't Scottish. I was eleanor didn't have a Scottish accent? That Raymond's mom remarked Raymond. It was the one who had the Scotch Scotia.

I forgot, okay, I I think Sabrina your portrayal of Raymond was beautiful, Like honestly, I think one of the best performances we've had on the cast. Wow, that's fine, fun, understated, and yet it really I thought you played it twity. Well you just said she did the accent

wrong, so which is it? Well, we would get a dialect coach for further rehearsals, but I didn't want to the scene, you know, yeah, of course, man, I wish I had remembered, Yeah, okay, you do, and then my next line would be, also, would your mom do to get in prison? Anyway? Last petty good, that was pretty good, thank you, And then my last line would have been, or maybe we could have lunch instead? Not like I guess she's giving the editor an option to splice those it's never going to be wait,

I forgot the forgot the first line. Hey Eleanor, You're okay, I want to go to the family function with me. We're really it's the whole time. Hey Eleanor, You're okay you want to go to a family function with I? Just like that. You're making decisions. I like, I like the directions you're going. Johnna. Do we have a Johnna's jugs for

this one? Yeah? So we got two things here. So first of all, you can actually, if you're one of our UK based listeners, if you haven't stopped listening to the cast in Horror UH and had to gowd your ear drums after hearing that, I would is that what you were? I was just talking. I was just talking. It's okay. I can't have an opinion. Glenn's vodka, which is what Eleanor drank, and it

is manufactured by the lock LeMond Group, loch LeMond Group. It's Scottish, so you can go ahead and have what I'm sure is an absolutely disgusting vodka. The other thing I'm gonna recommend to you, okay, is a little something called Buckfast. I got to have when I was in Scotland and it's a whole lot of fun. Let me tell you about Buckfast. You guys

remember for Loco. Yeah, okay, this is worse. It is instead of uh, it has the energy drink component, but it's mixed with the wine instead, and it's banned from being brought into bars and clubs in Scotland because too many people uh stab each other. I guess when they get wild on the buck fast to remember it might be. I need to tell you something fun, which is when Scottish people leave Scotland, they still want buck fast and there's a little app called find Me Bucky and they use it to

now places that sell buck fast. Wow. I would love if you were listening and you paired this episode with a little Bucky. All right, that sounds disgusting. So all right, you drink wine, you have your energy. Drink wine, take a few SIPs and we'll be right back with more about the book and the author. Br By, We're back. Hi, Jay, really dive it big and desperate. Yes, okay, she just said hi. You said hi? Okay. Eleanor Olaphant is the twenty seventeen

debut novel by Gail Honeyman. It won the Costa Debut Novel Award, which is basically a special award just for people in the UK and Ireland. So it's like, even to be honest, it's not even real, Okay, it's nice. There's a special award made up for like a very small special group of people. Okay, sack. May twenty seventeen. The film rates were optioned by Reese Witherspoon's company, Hello Sunshine. Of course their hands all

over these books. Yeah, I'm reading it, I think, And it was announced it would be an MGM picture, but I haven't heard anything else about it. But it was I just want the Yeah. God. It was one of those where like it sold at auction, there were a ton of bids and publishers as soon as it sold, like the movie rights were acquired and things like that. It was just or you know, as soon as it debuted. I believe it was you know, big right out the

gate bangers success. This is the most updated. The information I have is from two years ago, So twenty twenty two. Yeah, it says Fleabag director Harry Bradbeard to direct and Georgia Pritchett is adapting. That's like, huh, but what's going on? You know, it's been I mean, I know movies moved slowly, but it does feel like we're getting into like it's not happening territorially. Maybe they started to feel so sad about Eleanor that they

couldn't go on if you were sad. Also I just want to say, Georgia Pritchett, the one adapting, Yeah, she was, Uh where does this information just go? She was the coe p On succession and veep. Oh wow cool. I like that. Okay, pretty amazing shells. So that's pretty I'm into it now. Okay, hope, I hope that happens.

Yeah. I agree. And so Claire, you were saying the book made you said, and I just want to clarify that you're wrong to feel that, because actually this book is a genre called uplet up dash l I T, which means it is uplifting literature. Yeah, it's designed to kind of make you happy. And there is a theory that people were drawn to it because of how unhappy the world is. What's the happening? I don't

understand. I don't I don't agree with that it's uplit you guys. Is that happy part, like your life is better than Eleanor's yeah, or just that hurt like gets a little better by the end. Is it the fact that she gets it gets I think that's what Scottish people fingers uplifted. Well, she goes to therapy and that's like really uplifting. I think there's a little bit of an updog thing going on. Yeah, yeah, okay, yes, absolutely So do you know what I'm talking about? No, I

don't. I don't remember. If you're trying to get us to say some you're trying to make you want me to I see you want me to say, what's up? Dog? Yeah? I think I see you pee Jonah, I got it, I got it, all right. So it's not you know, I think there's the point though, like, is this uplifting of Scottish people? Maybe? I think they are generally pretty darkly funny group of people, so maybe this is like the happiest it gets in Scotland. Yeah, it does show up. When I look up up that it shows

up and you know what else shows up on that list? A man called Well's I I think if this book is so, is that? Yeah? But I don't understand the genre. Sure, I'm with you there, all right? Tell us about a Gale. Dale was born in Sterling, Scotland, and Sterling is a city in central Scotland, northeast of Glasgow, northwest of Edinburgh. The market town surrounded by rich farmland. Let me get my map out citadel, the medieval old town with its merchants and tradesmen, the

old bridge of the port. I mean, doesn't Scotland just sound incredible? Don't you want to go? Don't you want to go in August with me? Are you going in August? Are you going for the are you going to the fringe? I don't know if we're going to hit fringe. Just the time I trying to go, my cousin was trying to convince me to come for fringe, and I was like, yeah, with the baby,

Well, I'm going to be there, Sarah, what's friend? Sounds like sounds like you're going to be missing this well the very end, I'll be there. Maybe, Okay, something to think about. We'll talk more about this off cast. Sure. He is fifty two years old. She started writing professionally in her forties. As you know, we go crazy for that ship. We're so happy. I'm always a little skeptical. Yeah, what took you so long? Yeah, I'm fine with it. I'm fine with

it. I'm fine with it. Okay. Now here's where this bio gets a little interesting. I think you guys are going to be interested in this. So a couple of things are going on. First of all, she has a second book coming out, and to be fair, it's coming out December eighteenth, twenty twenty five. It's currently called untitled Book two. All she has said about it so far is it set in a different period and

location, followed by I'll see what happens. I guess. This really feels like this is a dog that has caught the bumper situation where she does not have a second book. In an absolute panic, she knows that a book is about to go on sale a little over a year from to how and

there is no book and she has no idea what it's gonna be. It has a time period, it does a spot in a time or it's maybe like a Georgia or Martin thing where she's like, oh, was not expecting to be so popular, and then like just as like, I'm gonna it's gonna take me a while I get another one out of here. Maybe or could maybe it was a freaky Friday situation. Somebody swapped into her body and wrote it, and then they swapped back and now she yeah, thats like

I've got to go back to that same restaurant. I gotta go. We gotta have a lightning strike. Okay, here's the other thing. I So she seems to be, based on her online presence or lack thereof, an extremely mysterious person. So I want to just read this quick excerpt from one of the very, very very few interviews she did. Okay. She admits to having grown up in a village in central Scotland, midway between Glasgow and Edinburgh, as listeners know, but when pressed about her background or her personal

life clams up. It takes a mid interview phone call to her parents to reassure her that it's okay to mention what they did for a living. Her mother was a civil servant and her dad worked in a science lab. They are both retired. There was no going on in the science lab, as my first thought. There was no history of writing in the family, and when she describes how she came into writing, she says, there really is no mystery. It's all very ordinary, which is an incredibly suspicious thing to

say. Here's my question. Is she autistic like her main character? I would say yeah. I mean the way the author writes and gets into the mind of Eleanor, who is probably on a spectrum. I know that it doesn't say that, yeah, but it doesn't say that to read it in any other way. To me, I agree, it does make you think like someone who can see the world this uniquely and through this particular lens as

an author, Like it did make me wonder. I don't know. I'm saying she's mysterious and I think there's more and we got to get to the bottom of it. I think she's more like her character, maybe like without the horrible Like if her parents are that, she probably doesn't have a horrible background. But I feel like she's more like her character than are you dying to know more? What's the new book? What are her secrets? Why doesn't you talk to anybody? She doesn't like the pressure, she doesn't like

the attention. Mm hmm, that's what I'm getting. That's my guest. All right, all right, well let's go into it more of an interest. But okay, it's fine, respector privacy, respector privacy, that's really messing. I'm not interested. I will say this book does like just because we just brought up man, we just did uh the oo guy. It is weird the similarities between these two books, with the whole like I don't know how computers work, and like there's a oh yeah, it's just I

don't know, I don't know what else to say. We can come back to that. I don't know, Maybe we need to talk a little bit more about the characters and stuff before diving in. But yeah, truly, there were a lot of There were so many parallels because Okay, in Uva, we have a main character who's a lonely Okay, check, that's what we have with eleanor the things they're better than everyone thinks they're better than everybody

in sort of a defensive way. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I think, oh, this was first person narrative, and that was like weird. Started everything with a man named Uba, but the vibe just felt the same. Computers. They both don't know what a computer is. But I yeah, that was the Oh it's even But that was weirder for me because I was like, actually that at the beginning of this, because that's pretty early.

It kind of pissed. That pissed me off, and it took I was like, I need more because at that point we didn't know anything about like, oh, she had a weird past of abuse, Like we didn't know at that point, so it was like I was like, why is she such an idiot? Like she's not old like Ova least was older. Yeah, and it was earlier. It was like twenty eleven. This was twenty seventeen. Like she should know what the fuck a computer? Like it made me mad? How stupid? Yeah, she was too much. Also,

they both acquire a cat, they both try to kill themselves. Yep, that's true. Okay, I just feel like we're completely blowing past the comedy. It's like, it's not that she doesn't know how to use these things, she's just chosen not to. She's happy reading her books and watching her show. And oh Johnah doesn't like technology. So she's feeling intextually. I don't like feel like you have to be so, but that's what I'm saying. I actually I feel like eventually once you find out like more like

her issues. I I just at the time when it was happening, I thought, in my head, I need to hear that she is the background where she used to be like amish or something for me to be like by the into her character being so dumb. Read all these things and I'll do the choice to a shoe modern stupid things like computers. I'm much happier if I didn't have a computer, but you wouldn't order one. You wouldn't know, Like God, it's you didn't have a computer already. Let me tell

let me ask you this. How many times has a book broken my ribs? Okay, how many times has a phone broken my ribs? I think you're still blaming the wrong thing here. The jacket I think was too tight and on another tne I feel like, is the probably your biggest culprit that you wasn't wasn't it wasn't skiing the jacket. This is I was on pa, but I was not sag. I was standing. This is ridiculous balanced. Her phone was in her pocket and she leaned over or stood up or

something and it broke her ribs. All through my last skime, I wasn't sing, Sarah, I was did you handy on the skis are on? Then? I'm saying it was no, no, no. But this scenario is like if she was wearing a bathing suit but was outside of the pool exactly, I'm not. I wouldn't say I was round swimming. I would say I was in a bathing suit and a bird came out of the sky. I mean that drowned me. I don't think the analogy. I still

maybe I shouldn't have been near. Maybe shouldn't have been near the pool. Problem now I can't even now it's what I was wearing is a problem. I think certainly that's my fault for what I think the location. And oh yeah, I'll have to just be more careful. I can't where I go. I guess, you know, in the morning, Yeah, maybe don't go skik But look, I don't even know what we were talking about related talking about how stupid technology is. Oh my god, Okay, I don't

whatever. For all the parallels to the book Over, I hated that book more than any book I've ever read that I can remember. And I did like this book. Yeah, I also people said they liked this book. It made me feel like, wow, Over really could have been executed better. Yes, yeah, I give example to readers about how funny Eleanor is. Yeah, could you? Yeah, it's no trouble. Okay, here we go. So she's has to text her new work friend. She goes.

I steeled myself as best I could, and with teeth gritted, using only one finger, I typed, see you there e. I sat back, feeling queasy. Illiterate communication was quicker. That was true, not by much. I'd save myself the trouble of typing four whole characters. Still, it was part of my new credo, trying new things. I tried it, and I definitely did not like it. Hello could go and take a running jump? Yeah, so funny. So I think it's charming. I

think it goes down easy. Yeah. And with Sabrina, Okay, what about this one? No thank you? I said, I don't want to accept a drink from you because then I would be obliged to purchase one for you in return, and I'm afraid I'm simply not interested in spending two drinks worth of time. Yes, And that's to me again, why I'm like this. She's autistic with it, but it's like, that's funny because you're like, who would be in this social situation be so another thing that she

said that I think maybe JOHNA would characterize as funny. It's just based on the examples you've given reading a book and has a dog in it, and she says book can never have too much dog. That's so relatable. Yeah, although she had a lot of not relatable things. When you talked about food, and I think that's sure. How about this one? I had no idea how to respond and opted for a smile, which serves me well on most occasions. Though it's not something to do with death or illness.

I know that now, so funny. Wait, I got another one. I can't remember who's talking to. I think maybe it's like Raymond's mom and they found out she was sick and she was like, I asked a follow up question, not because I was interested, but because that's what you do. Yeah, that was good. Okay, Okay, look we're moving the needle on claricy I know. And I like that one, I said,

But she's like, she makes bed jewelry stills a idiots. Yeah. See, I think this is a you know, versal like uh oh no no no no no no no no, no, no no no, no sloid death Alessandra, Look, you got out over your skis on this book. Okay, you said it. How what happened when you hear your ribs? Well in a way, I imagine you were standing at the top of the hill I was. I just did not fall. I did not make a skiing error. My phone effectively reached out of the jacket pocket lodged itself between

my ribs and Donna. You will never I just I mean, I wish I could have been in the room with you when you explained what to the doctor what you think happened? What did the doctor say, like, oh, typical, oh, skier skiing. But it wasn't not the related the

scheme. It was. Yeah, I was helping. I was hoping the doctor pa by the way, Okay, I was hoping that he was a skier because I wanted him to understand when you get up from the chair lift that there is a surge of a sort of violent thrust that you must do to stand. Okay, So it is no absolutely standing. I was literally standing up. I was not skiing, okay, but it was a special kind of standing up you would only do on a ski lift. It's like

this is actually to your swimming thing. It's like it is though like you were, like, well, when I dove into the water, my goggles hit me in the face. It's like you were that's still swimming? Next? Was I, Sarah? Was I diving or was I swimming? Still swimming next? Okay, Well, it's the analogy is bad. No one

is killing it works. It makes sense to me. Swear it more like if I was getting up onto the diving block to perform in my relay race and I slipped off the diving block because the diving block was faulty the diving itself. So you you looked the phone as faulty as that, or the chair replacement on the coat was the problem, to be honest, it shouldn't have been there. It wasn't a safe place to have a pocket. They

could fit a phone, you know what. It's women's clothing to have less having a hard time not why the standing up, I'm like, had sort of pokes you. I don't, doesn't it kind of it became it went from being a vertical phone to a phone that was horizontal parallel to I would guess is that you actually probably did it prior to whatever this happened, and it wasn't until you stood up that you actually felt the pain. No, you could not be more wrong. I'm sure. I'm actually so confident that

you weren't there. I know, but from just listening to what happened, it doesn't make sense. Non. I wish I could have been your doctor, because I got it. I know you do. I know you got it. You have a rib broken from a phone in your pocket. No, I was there. I like, know what she's saying. Half it? Yeah, and you show me I can Yeah. Okay, you're a body your phone is like this. You are okay, it's not gonna be great for the cast to show you lean a leaan forward and then you thrust

up with momentum. And what happened was the phone, in that moment of leaning forward, put itself right into my ribs, and then when I thrust it up with momentum, it went in between and broke a rib and it broke a rip. Okay, interesting, Has this the first time you had had the phone in that place and worn that was, Sarah? Yes, it was because I wanted to make sure that Dan, who was separated from the group, was contacted by us as needed. So so usually you put

the phone somewhere else. Usually I put it in my thigh pocket where it's safe in the event of a very unlikely fall. That way, if I get hurt, it's not pressing up against my ribs and my organs of my body. It's down your heavy, heavy thighre. Now I'm hearing that you already knew it was a risk and it was a risk you took. It was was wrong. The coat was wrong. It should it should be okay in a coat pocket coat was wrong. Not me. All right, that's

fine. But I think the fact that it was a special ski lists move makes it a skiing injury. It doesn't mean you did something wrong or that you're I'm not We're not calling you a bad skier. If that's what your your defense, which is I'm sure that it's what no one's calling It's more. Yeah, it's the it's the language we're talking about skiing in. Or maybe it's not safe. Oh you broke your rib skiing. No, absolutely, everyone knows that that's not a it's not a surprising thing anyway. The

book is funny, very funny. So Eleanor we meet her. She doesn't have any friends, she's very weird h her. It starts out she sees this guy who She's like, this is this is uh? This guy he's amazed. This was confusing and it made me made and it made me feel like I missed something in the book because it was like lonely, lonely, lonely. I don't talk to anybody, I don't speak on the weekends. I went to a concert with somebody from work, and I fell in love

with the guy, and the concerts like what the fuck? Wait? Well, I think it goes to show what a special occasion the concert was. And you know, she doesn't normally go to these things. She doesn't understand that there is a performer audience boundary. Yes, I needed more. I needed more into or maybe I did miss something because I was done an audiobook and I won't rewind. But I felt like I needed more explanation for why

she was at a concert with someone all of a sudden. I mean, I don't think it was just like a yeah, I didn't she win it? Didn't she like win it for the radio? And then she just like brought the youngest guy. Right, But that seems like a lot to go from never speaking to anyone to inviting someone to go to college. But I don't think she has social anxiety. I don't think that's her issue. I

think she's autistic. I think it's just like she doesn't do a social direction that I don't think it's h Yeah, I don't think that's her issue. But she yeah, anyway, so she's like, I'm this is the guy, he's the one for me, which is obviously like to us the reader

being like, Okay, she's off her rocker. Something's really messed up here, and she thinks this is the one that like her mom will approve of or whatever, and she does some creepy things like eventually looks up where he lives, and like she gets the computer because she wants to stalk him, and then she does. And at that point the book I was like, actually, I kind of like would have like I don't know. I keep

thinking about this and like, would I like this book better? The book that I thought was happening at that point, which was like her mother is like I thought maybe her mother was like because we don't know the deal with her mother at that point, and I thought, oh, except for that, she's like crazy and not and mean and not with and in some sort of home or like just not Eleanor has weekly phone calls with her They say so uh. In my head, I thought at that point that she was

like in a prison or an insane asylum. And I was like, oh, so is Eleanor is it going to be her like struggling with becoming as insane as her mother? And I thought she was I thought that was just the start of her being creepy freak, but she doesn't do anything else. I would say that rose to the level of stalker. Is what she did or naw on when she showed up to his house and rang the doorbell and then she like sat outsize door listened to him. Look right right right,

I'm saying. After that she does is go to a concert and it's like, yeah, it's not that bad. Something that like wasn't didn't necessarily click for me, is like okay. So honestly, when she like delusionally started loving the singer, that's when I took a turn on the book. I was like, my notes are like this is so like, oh oh my god, I hate it. And then I was like, okay, of how delusional she is, I did like you, That's what I was like. It's very dark, and I was like, ooh, this is exciting,

this is interesting. I did like it. But then she just like later realizes that she's being crazy, and that didn't feel like what that character would do given the like obsession, you needed a step in between. Yeah,

maybe something with the mom and realizing the similarities or something. Yeah, I wanted her to I wanted her to take it farther and then like it, because it's just like she never because what she does is later towards the as much later the book, she like goes to the concert and like he doesn't look at her, and she's like realizes she doesn't even like him or the music, and it's just like, oh, I was wrong, I was being crazy. It did seem too easy, Yeah, that realization.

Yeah. Well, he also, I think, does something disgusting on stage, not disgusting, but disgusting to her, Like he like, yeah, shows his butt. Yeah that's not it. I don't know why that I'm saying that sounds right, okay, and you know, to her that's just so grotesque. So I think it's partly that she loses the crush just because she's like, oh, he's not the man I thought he was. Which

a similar experience at a concert. Yeah, I was Matt, and I saw this artist in perform at the Stone Pony in Aspbury Park, and I was like, his songs are so beautiful and romantic and deep and just like heartbreaking. And then he was there and he was really drunk and he was just so into telling his own stories. Sad oh yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, that can happen. But you also weren't stalking him previously, so you were you were making some very dangerous assumptions. All right,

maybe you were, but anyway, all right, that's happening. So and then and while she's doing that, she's like, I'm trying to make over myself to make before she has her big meeting with this guy that she's now the singer that she's obsessed with. So she does some things like she gets a wax, which is what I said. I hated the waxing scene. I was like, you know, because it's just like I don't like,

I'm not a fan of Like I don't know how things work. Yeah, and I feel like I I'm supposed to be funny, but it wasn't funny, right, So that's why I mean, I didn't I didn't feel like I was like behind I got was behind her weird choices until I knew like a little bit more about her past. I wish they had like del that had been talked about, or they gave us that information earlier, because then I would have been more on board with her and her reactions to things.

I don't know. Yeah, I mean it's like hard because it's like a nice to get as a reveal. But yeah, I was annoyed at her at first, and then I was like, Okay, fine, yeah, I guess I will give you that. It does feel lazy to have characters that just don't know something, because some of the other writing in this book was more inspired, Like it's like, she has a funny take, I put kill your take on this. Yeah, some stuff she really knew, like yeah, like food and yeah, she seemed very smart in some ways.

So that's what it was. Like. I'm thinking about her relationships, and so I was shocked to find that she had previously been sleeping with somebody. Yeah, it's like talking. Yeah, and then she was like talking to Raymond about how that ended. I can't remember, but she was like, well, you know, even though we didn't go on dates, we did get to have sex, and that's better than just getting raped. Oh yeah, And Raymond was like, you know those are not the only two

options. Yeah, I think we need to talk about Raymond. But wait, let's take it a quickmmercial break and then we'll, uh, we gotta get we haven't given the background, so let's do it. B RB, we're back. Does somebody want to break down Raymond? Nobody want to do an Okay, you'll have to help me fill some things in. But essentially he works with her and he's an it guy. New coworker too, new coworker. Oh yeah, she knows so little about computer is that she didn't

know that the old it guy had left months ago. Anyway, that's fine, but some reason he and her call an ambulance or something because some guy's sick. So they like form this. They see somebody faint in the street, okay, as they're like leaving work, right, yeah, and they both help him and they help him and then he saves his life is saved, and Raymond calls her from the hospital. He's like, oh, I thought you'd want to see he's away because he was in a coma. And

then they're like, oh, so excited. And then he's like, oh, we should go have a beer together, and she's like, I guess never really been to a bar, but I could do that, and like they go and this is where they start their friendship. And it's really interesting because she's like, what if people order at bars? What if people order at bars? Oh my god, He's gonna ask me what I want. Anyway, they like have their little drinks and then they just like keep hanging

out and it seems like a cute little romance could be developed. Yes, yes, I agree. They go to his aunt's house to do something. She invites him to something. Then he invites her over and she meets his mom. Yeah, and the mom's like really nice, and it's like they get along so well. It's really sweet. I also at this point was like, this is moving towards this is because then people would think they're a couple, and then she would always be like, oh no, no,

no, I've already got somebody. I just haven't met him yet, or like you know, funny things like that. But it was like, oh no, she's gonna have to She's going to realize at some point that Raymond's better than Yeah, yeah, she'd be going for et cetera. But that didn't really didn't happen. Yeah, he might have been to do it, but I don't know why he wants to be friends with her. She's not

that nice to him. More fun yeah for him. They meet up, She's always like in her head, he's dressed like shit, why would he pick that? Kreddy ass out. But yeah, I don't really know why

he brought her to his mom's house. I feel like, I guess because I feel like when he talked to he's like a really sweet, sincere person, and I think he talked about like having an old relationship with a woman cheated on him, and I think he probably's attracted to how like Elmo is just like Larry Blunt, and she's like this is what she is, is what she says is, and like, uh, she sees the world a little differently. But I don't know. I I bought them at least being

friends, I guess. But you know I wanted I wanted them to be I wanted it ending with them, to be romantically involved. I just me too. I wanted a lot of nicer things you wanted more than nice life. I still want her to have a nicer life. Yeah, No, she's very It was very sad. Her situation was sad, but I liked I liked the dark stuff. That's what it's like. I could have had this book be even darker. To be quite honest, I'm not comin's that's

very brave. But yeah, so it's to parallel Eleanor doing these weird stalker things with her, and a burgeoning friendship with Raymond is kind of happening up to the point where eleanor Uh she goes to the concert, has the realization that this man isn't for her. Then she just starts getting drunk on vodka and is like gonna try to kill herself. She's missing work, which she never does. And did you relate to that, Johnah, that sounded like

you when they were talking about someone who never misses work. No, no, no, I miss fork, never depends on the job. Well, uh yeah. So basically Raymond saves her life. Somebody want to take over you got it? I feel like I'm just rambling about, like what happened? What happened? I mean, I'd like to do that's that is?

You know. I think she struggles with obviously mental health issues. She yet decides, like Sarah said, she's gonna take her life, prepares to do so, Raymond saves her, and it's ultimately like this really interesting redeeming story about it's not a love story, but it's a friendship story of how like we all need something in our lives, Like you can't just go home from work on Friday and not see anyone until Monday. I actually already knew that

already, actually already. But maybe it's asking you to reach out to someone who doesn't know that. Oh, is that what it wanted me to do? Because that's not something I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to be the Raymond he has not described flatteringly. Okay, so Sabrina and I both have to do two people. Now that's the bok. Look, we could take them on a groupie. Let's talk about the reveals from the therapy, right, because I feel like I'm getting that maybe we took away

different things from the reveals? Is that my Am I wrong here? From the summary? I was like, just is Sabrina not revealing what happened? Or do we did I? Okay, okay, okay, okay. I wasn't sure whether I was like, did I interpret something wrong? Because I was really speedy to finish this book. So it's fair, okay, giving the mom died in the fire? Yes, so oh no you don't think so, Sabrina? Maybe? Wait, yeah I didn't. So good, this is good. This is good. It wasn't that it wasn't like one

hundred percent clear I don't know. I was listening on three time speed. I was doing a lot of other things. I think it's pretty clear mom that Eleanor has been talking to this whole time in the book every Wednesday night. Isn't real. It's like the in her head and mom, uh set the house on fire wood. Eleanor and her sister were children, and mom and sister died in the house. Okay, I thought just sister. I

thought, just sister as well, Mom as well. And so this whole kind of journey for Eleanor has been to this voice in her head, this negative voice is just her own, but it's from her childhood trauma. Wow. The devil on the shoulder was perhaps even more apt than I. And that's from this house. I am like that. I am confidently. You were like, no, I know the ending. I was just I obscured it in the summer. Wow. No, all right, Well, I mean I don't know. I thought maybe it was like I was not one

hundred confidence. So I thought I was having trouble piecing together because she like said that her name was changed after it and everything, So I was like, did they put her in witness protection? And but then she still found her mom. I was like, how how she not like violating her protections? And there was a part where she told the social worker she still talks with the momb and the social work surprised. Yeah, they were like,

what, which makes sense if your mom burned up? Sister. Sure, sure, I see the book is creeping up and up in everybody's estimation. I did not like and I think that the audiobook probably the Witch like I was really witch it was which I didn't like it. I was like, this is very unpleasant to hear, just upsetting me. I don't like what was saying to Eleanor. I don't like how she's saying it. I don't

want this in my life. But it made me want her. It made me want Eleanor to be witchier, like have more of a WHICHY sighed to her that I don't know, didn't really seem to happen with I don't know, I maybe expect more of a specific but I guess she I mean, I guess it was her struggling because in the end it was her doing the voice in her head essentially right. But yeah, so again UPLT. There was not like the happy ending. It was just that she was able to

admit what happened in her past to a therapy. Her life is better now, her colleagues at work understand her more. D helped her bridge the gas, and she got a haircut, and she, as she herself professes, she realizes people like you when you rotate the clothes that you wear. It was very astute. I also have a bone to pick with how this book portrayed normal people like me being so mean and cruel like her coworkers were so mean to her, laughing at her in the open because she has egzema or

something. That's not a fair way to describe us. Mh, Well, so so she didn't you want to be a Raymond then no, No, I'm one of the cool people. Work with friends. You are is a bully to you. The cool people are the people that make fun of Eleanor as they described like the masses. The normal masses were described as a little bit like it was a cartoonish. Yeah, it was roll doll esque cruel. Yeah, they were pretty cool, speaking of uh, roll doll Clara,

very good, a little roll doll reference. We're talking about them earlier. Yeah, but I thought you didn't understand. I thought we didn't know. I didn't even know you would have known that. Well, that's what scared me off. All the beginnings of the books overly cruel to the children, the same Your story is not adding up. Okay, I don't think. I think it's just explain it all right, Well, did you have any anything else we want to get into this book? I guess you would

have liked. What are issues? Let's go back to what Alisaders said. I have no issues. I mean, what can I say? I loved the book. I loved it so much. It's one of the few books that were made on my bookshelf. Now, I may have thrown it away eventually because I really have a problem. I have a problem. I need to get help. But it did remain on my bookshelf for a good long time. You're okay, okay, yeah, okay, Yeah. I throw a lot of stuff away, though, Like the reason I was in the

jacket that hurt me was because I had thrown my ski jacket away. You mean giving it away, right, yeah? Yeah, yeah, I do. You mean it took to a good will but but yeah, I mean ultimately, you know, I got rid of something I used multiple times a year every year for no reason. Okay, well, now someone has a nice ski jacket, jacket that won't ever hurt them. Did you mean to leave a note in the pocket to tell them? She kept She kept the quote that hurt her, I believe, but that hurt me is still here.

The problem is I got rid of the the ski coat. Oh okay, all right. Anyway, Alice Siders says, uh, whatever criticisms, was like, uh, oh, she's super shallow about the musician and like she and I guess like Raymond. She's like mean about what way Raymond looks and stuff like that. But I don't think it's to me. It's not

so much shallow. I feel like that's more to me her being on the spectrum and like being very like these are the rules and like some of the rules of life were introduced to her by her mother, like expectations, and so she's like, these people aren't this is someone who is fitting into the expectation or the rules, and this is someone who's really so the smokings and no, no, this is you know that's I read it more like that,

not that she was shallow. It was just it just seems like very similar to Ova, you know, even what you're saying, now, these are the rules, you have to follow them. Yeah. And then that reminded me of another similarity, which is, like, I guess she put it as her mother really scorned overweight people. But that was oh, yeah, you're right. They both did have that the Ova book. Oh yeah, same book. Yeah, same book. Basically weird. It is a

lot there are a lot of similarities between them. Wof weird. Yeah, I got we're the first people to notice that. Should we been writing in journals writing, Clara, not to put a damper in that, but neither you nor I caught that. The mother who was I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. But write your journal articles, I said, we Johnna, you were included? Oh really? Oh my god. Okay, whose name goes first? I'm gonna go alphabetical first names is more

fair? Sure? All right? I feel like we just took a commercial break, so we're not ready to But let's wrap this baby up. Let's put up so that people the sooner we finished this podcast, as sooner people could start reading this excellent, wonderful book, such a good book. Let's just put a warning in there, A little bit sad and scary. It's a little bit uplet. So I like my friend, my old roommate Joe,

who was on the podcast with her book while back. She's recommended this to me years ago, thinking I would like it, and I'm just like, wow, she thought I was so brave. Yeah, I really thought you were going to be on my side. Clara, with all her little funny things, she thinks and says, uh, man, I was like, this person would be me and Claire's friend for sure, And now I find out you're one of the bullies. You're one of people. I was laughing at her at work. If it would help me fit in, absolutely

should do a little good Reads. Yeah, let's do good Reads. It's kind of I almost feel like we should be not doing five steviews for this one, but all we'll just do it. I agree, because it's been so overwhelmingly positive on the cast. Here's Matthew, same Matthew five stars. He goes. Eleanor Olivhon is not completely fine, well, at least not

at first. This book is a fantastic character study. The journey with quirky Eleanor through the past and present is bizarre at times, thought provoking at others, but I found it engaging no matter what. What a such a fun ride. You know, when I sat down to write this, I thought I was gonna get go four stars. But in writing the paragraphs above, I was thinking about the uniqueness of the story and how gaged I was. I'm gonna give it five, give it a try. I love the mid

review. Yeah, you gotta change it, you gotta change it up. No, there's a lot of people being like, thank you eleanor Oliphant, Thank you for picking me up out of my reading slump. Thank you for being funny, sad, smart, blunt, hell, yeah sad. Oh, thanks for being sad. Okay, I can get that anywhere. Thank you for enriching my own personal vocab. My kindled dictionary has never had such a workout. She does do crosswords admitting stupidity on the internet. Interesting.

Oh, here's this is interesting because it's the same person, Jules. She says, my black black Heart doesn't always have to read about murders and mysteries. I love a feel good story as much as the next guy. I just needed to be the right kind of writing, the right kind of character. I have to admit I wasn't a huge fan of a man called Uva Uba did not strike me as a real person. He felt artificial and a bit contrived. Made up. Eleanor, on the other hand, is real.

Five stars. That's interesting. I think I maybe did also feel that way, like I believed. Yeah, I think that's fair. Actually, when she says Uva feels contrived, Eleanor didn't feel as contrived. But honestly, that maybe made it worse for me. It's like, I feel so bad for her and she comes back. It's just a correct character. Not really, it's not that great that she's at a job. She's like,

she likes people appreciate her more, they understand her more, everybody. She's going up a little bit what I wanted to I did want after that kind of scary ship one. Yeah, can I get a fucking fairy tale ending? Yez, I would. I would have liked a little bit more. That was uplet is still funny to me. It's very that's misleading, all right, Okay, So do you guys want to do our Yeah? Yes, I go first two out of five. The writing's not terrible, but

it's too scary. Two five too scary, scary, too scary. Obviously, happy to go next. I absolutely love this book. I would recommend it to anyone. It's a bookshelf keeper, a joy tory, start to finish, love eleanor love the voice of the narrator, want to know more about her? What a mystery, Gail Honeyman five, Johna, just if you would recommend it to anyone, just give them a little give them a little asterix which is like, it's a little bit scary. It's a little

bit scary. Okay, got it. I'm gonna give this one a four out of five. I also, I did really like it. I think for me, I could have been it could have been darker, I could have been scary. I could have I would have liked some more scary. I would have liked to see some more stalking. That's just that's just me. That's how I feel, So four out of five. I will also give it a four out of five. I I was not loving it the first like ten to fifteen percent, when all I could feel were the parallels

to Ova. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really bringing up that trauma for me. But once once I turned the corner and like, I enjoyed it. I I mean, we're making fun of Johnna for saying like all those things were funny. I still don't think that they were necessarily funny, but they were certainly enjoyable to read, and I enjoyed reading them. I mean yeah, but of course it's not the secret. So right right, sure, sure, all right, it's time. It's time,

JOHNA. We've disagreed a lot, but your strawberries are still staying with me, so we lied. Yeah, yeah, that's right. So it's just a small price to pay for undying loyalty. It feels good, glad, it feels good. M Yeah, Okay, I cast my vote. I'm going to cast my vote. Okay, I'm nervous. Actually, she seems like she's hesitant to do it. No, I'm not. Oh, okay, okay, my vote is going to be for Clara because so my

vote, I think John and I had very good vibe. My vote should never have been for Johanna, but Clara should have a little She called you a bully. Remember she apologized to the readers if they've bombed the Scottish listeners listening to us. Okay, you know your vote should have been for Jonna, but you have to take into considering you. I can't right exactly because you're a fat cat who accepts bribes ridiculous punching up. I get it intended,

but fun side effect of is getting tragged for it. Yeah, hmmm mmmmm, well, I guess I just have the say I'm glad Johanas having fun. Yeah, thank you. I know who my asshole is and it's Sarah. And here's why, you know, I dropped these breadcrumbs at the beginning of the cast. Oh what this author is such a mystery, you know. I really thought Sarah would latch onto that and start clicking away on her computer like she likes to do, doing doing all of her little reading

and her little looking on. And she didn't. She didn't take the bait at all. So I was left there, just hung out to dry, having only done a little bit of research on the author. An idiots. I did mention the stuff on the movie, sure, but I I did not know you wanted me to do work for you. You're in the middle

of the cast. That's that's accurate. I just if you wanted that, you should have you should have put some actual, very wrong, clearly wrong information, and that would have triggered me to be like what Johnnah and then I would have probably just for your if next time, if you're trying to pull that, okay, yeah, I'll certainly set it up again, you know, to try to do less work. So thanks for the tip. That's a good one for next time, ye, Sarah, that leaves only

you, I believe. Oh sorry, I just know it's not me, so I don't know, go ahead on me. So some there would be a situation where Claire could be insulted that you were just yeah, you know, but it is like, yeah, I can't do anything to her. I can say whatever I want for now. Mm hmm, Okay, I've got my vote. It's not for Johina, but what it is, it's for Sabrina. And there's a couple of reasons. One because I don't want

to vote with Johanna and let her choice become the asshole. One. Two Sabrina attacking me just now, and she pointed out again that I missed that the mother wasn't dead, and it was like, all right, we can't. I don't even know that we need to point to the fact that I missed it with you, well, don't point at it, brush over it, and hopefully people didn't notice. What so my vote is for Sabrina. It's not obviously it would be Jona. But my hands are tied. What

did she do? Yeah, the cycle of crime? Clara. Yeah, yeah, this is tough. I guess obviously Again, you know, I mean johna just randomly attacked me, but also random randomly. Yeah, it was pretty random. She also I kept talking about that skiing accedent that was nothing to go skiing and driving me crazy. But ultimately, you know, this alliance is so fucked. So obviously I'm gonna vote for Clara because okay, well John initiated the alliance, so yeah, but you're you're sticking with

it. You're what am I supposed to do? Be ungrateful for? Like fifty dollars there, it's a I don't like you board the episode. Okay, it's too power, it's too much power. The strawberries are We're not that good. I'm gonna tell you that right now. I'm sure they were, And I will say Clara wasn't expressly said in the gift, but I would say trying to convince other people to vote for me is against the spirit of I'm not necessarily saying vote for John. I'm just saying the vote for

me. I have to be able to defend myself. Jesus, remember John, and we're all out on the cat. No, it's it's Claire, Claire, you're you're, you're well. I'm tied with Sabrina though, no you not. All three of you vote for me? No, I know I had a voute. Sabrina got a voute. You got to Sabrina also that too, right, No one, there's only four what Clara definitely got You're gonna okay, okay, all right, more people would be up Sabrina. No, no, no supported her? All right? Great? So

guys, what are we reading next for our big finale? What are we reading big finale? We saved the book we absolutely do not want to read for a last It's so clearly this week after we hunted it, and it's guess what self help? Hell your truth? And let me tell you why. I know self help books don't work because we've now read what seven? Eight? Are our lives better in any way from before read the self book? You all have children? Now? Yeah? If anything claiming you secreted

our children? No, I'm just suspicious, is all I'm saying. Is anyone looking up what the book is during this vamping was like she knew she was going to do. It's Dichotomy of Leadership by Jacko Willik and Leif Bobbin sounds God and psychotomy of leadership. I'm not interested in that what economy means. I'm not a leader and I don't aspire to be one. It's a business book, and you know we're not in business. But we'll read it

and we'll talk about it, and it's gonna be a fun one. Please become a patron of the Mean Arts on Patreon, Uh, Patreon, Patreon, follow us on all the socials, send us your res uh anything else, guys, mm hmm. Anybody have any good books? Well, other than the whole episode. I've just been reading a lot of baby prep books. You have already done it, Yeah, just reminder minding. I get

it. I get it. I've been taking the classes to make sure I'm not taking the classes again, so to fill the guilt of that, I'm reading the books. Is it the birth partner? That's always the one everyone m I like them. Yeah, that's what's called. The birth partner is a good one. Bringing up loved, bring no no no, fuck the French it's ah Wow, I just thought of hot dogs again, expecting better. Emily Aust she like the car. I recommended that one to me.

I read it during my pregnancy. Yeah, like she get upset about that one, but I also liked it. Yeah. She just tells you, like where the advice comes from, what kind of studies, and you know how how much you should read into those studies and like what's kind of suspect about them and stuff like that, because everything, like everything with the pregnancy and after your kids is like a risk assessment. So I think it's good to think of it in those ways. The books. I probably talked about

this before I finally started. I read most of the series now, The Court Court of Thorn and Roses by Sarah Moss. Anybody, either of any of you guys read that. No. I tried to get us to do that that for the cast because I knew I wanted to read it, and I still think it would have been good. God knows, I'd rather be reading that than Dichotomy of Leadership. My god, it's it's it's horny fantasy, and it's just exactly what I what I want out of my books.

Yeah, horny fantasy, so totally recommend those great. Okay, right right, all right, we'll see you next step. We'll see you. I mean hear you now you we don't hear from you. I imagine and I see you in my mind's eye. There you go. M hm, see great. I can hear you in my mind here. Sound great? All right, bye bye bye