What Lessons Can Marvel Learn From the Disney Plus Shows? + Special Guest Friend Daniel - podcast episode cover

What Lessons Can Marvel Learn From the Disney Plus Shows? + Special Guest Friend Daniel

Aug 02, 20211 hr 12 minEp. 66
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Episode description

We're three series into the Disney Plus era of Marvel Studios, and we've teamed up with Friend Daniel to discuss what's working the best!


5.4: Work Your Loki (Loki S1E04)

There Was An Idea... A Marvel Cinematic Universe Podcast

Kermode on Film 

We're also looking for people to chime in with their best impression of the spoiler zone sound! If we get enough, we'd like to use listener submitted impressions throughout the duration of What If...? for our reviews! Even if it's recorded with your cellphone, feel free to send them to us at [email protected]

Don't forget you can follow us on Twitter or Instagram to let us know what you think about Loki or this episode!
Twitter: @MCUNeedtoKnow
Instagram: @MCUNeedtoknow

If you'd like to join our discord you can find that here:
https://discord.gg/7EEFXSk

If you want to follow Jude you can find them here!
Twitter: @Jhubbit
Instagram: @Jhubbit

If you want to follow Trey you can find them here!
Twitter: @TheTapStream
Instagram:@TheTapStream
www.thetapstream.com

Also would like to give a special thanks to Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song! You can find more of his work here!
https://soundcloud.com/nick_sandy


Want more of our podcast? Check out our website for more episodes and news!

Transcript

Trey

Hello and welcome back to another episode of MCU need to know a podcast dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe and everything you need to know. I'm Trey.

Jude

I'm Jude. How are you doing Trey? Well, Jude I'm excited because today we are joined by a return guest and a frequent shout out in this show. He's quickly becoming the Internet's best friend and a constant delight around the pod. We're happy to welcome back, friend Daniel to the show. Welcome back.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Hey guys.

Jude

Welcome Daniel.

Trey

Hey, how's it going?

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Great to be back. Thank you. Thank you. So I got to say I've been so delighted for this intro ever since your recent appearance on There Was An Idea our friend of the pod Tara's episode or Tara's show, I should say. And she referred to you as friend Daniel as well. And I immediately texted Jude and I was like, I know what I'm going to say. The next time friend Daniel is on the podcast. It tickles me so much that that has taken off

Jude

Well like that like very early on after you joined the discord, somebody asked are you friend Daniel.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. So, Tara had her next guest was Danny. And so it became very confusing. My identity.

Trey

Well, you know, the last time that we had you on this show, it was during our Falcon and the winter Soldier run. I thought it'd be cool to use this time here at the top of the show to check in with how you've been receiving the latest iterations of the MCU entries. So we've recently just finished up Loki. We've had black widow as well, some exciting things coming up with What If...? And Shang-Chi how's how have you been receiving the MCU are you enjoying it?

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Oh, well, you know, if you're on the discord, you know but

Trey

thank you.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I have been very much enjoying it. I mean, it's just, it's you know, I've caught up with you guys. And I agree with, with Jude and, and I think you said this Trey too, but that Loki is Loki was the strongest show for me. I'm kind of, I've, I've been forming my thoughts about it a little bit more, but just in terms of like cinematic scope and music and the, the, the dialogue and the action, it was the whole package.

So I could go on and on about Loki, but I'll save that for when we do the kind of compare and contrast and lessons and stuff, but I really enjoyed it. And I'm very excited about future Loki installments. In future movies and future seasons and stuff like that for Black Widow, I did not see it in the theater, but I watched it on Disney plus and I, I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. I haven't watched it again though.

So I haven't done the thinking and analysis and repeating and rewinding and stuff yet. But I've read, I've read about it. And I've listened, obviously listened to you guys. I listened to Tara's podcast. There Was An Idea and I've just gotten various perspectives on it. Jude, the, the latest podcast out from Kermode they talk about it.

Jude

Oh, wow.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. So they, they talk about it briefly, but I'll just, I'll throw that out there. The podcast is Kermode on Film and he's a, he's a British film critic. Hilarious guy loves Christopher Nolan and they have a broad appreciation of Marvel movies and comic book movies and stuff. So, and then as far as upcoming projects, well, I just saw that Hawkeye got a release date.

Trey

Yeah.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

So I'm excited about that. And I'm, I I'm very, I'm excited about Shang-Chi every time I haven't seen the most recent trailer didn't they release another trailer like yesterday.

Trey

They did. Yes,

Jude

They did. And I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't catch it.

Trey

You say embarrassed. I say strict with your philosophy. I consider that. a teaser, like a TV spot. It was only like a minute long, really Well, like okay. Philosophy wise. Yes. But like, I was scrolling through YouTube and I saw this thing about like, as new Shang-Chi trailer released. Like, I didn't even know until a good 12 hours later.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I didn't watch it. But yeah, the first trailer I was like, huh. And then the second trailer, the full trailer, not the teaser I was hooked. So I'm, I'm excited about that. And then I read, I read some stuff about it. So very excited about that. I'm really excited about Spider-Man whatever that's going to be about. And then I'm super jazzed about the, What If...? Series very, I love animation. I always loved What If comics, when I was a kid because they were one-offs and so you weren't required.

You're just required to know about. The character like Captain America or the X-Men or whoever you've got to know their basic story. And then you could see them playing with the character. And it was a fun way to be subversive when there were no stakes. And I remember getting invested in characters and they would kill them, you know, like they would die, you know, dramatically. And I was like, oh no, but it's like, it's, it's a one-off. So it's, it's not going anywhere.

And so I'm really given how subversive it can be, how you can be risky and take emotional risks and do fun things. I'm actually. I'm really excited about it. I think, I don't know. I haven't really thought about it out loud that much. And I'm getting more excited about it. Just talking about,

Trey

I was going to say, I think you made me excited, just talking about how excited you were.

Jude

And that's what just two weeks now it's

Trey

August 11th,

Jude

August 11th. Yeah.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

And then my last thoughts about everything that's gone on. And you guys got it. Cause I, I I've, I've really enjoyed the Assembled episodes you know, post finales, but the, the Loki listeners, if you haven't watched the Loki assembled, it is profound. Like it is, it is they've, they've added something that I don't remember in the last one. That is, is is a beautiful touch and it's really good. So I would highly recommend that if you, if you haven't

Jude

seen it, It's interesting.. That's probably the best assembled.

Trey

Oh, 100%

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. They've gotten better. Yes. I think they've gotten better.

Trey

Well, it feels like there's more of a presentation to Loki than the other two. And not that there was anything wrong with the other ones, but there's like a flourish and the Loki Assembled that I really enjoyed.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I mean, I'll spoil it. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's the voiceover like the voiceover, like, like Tom Hiddleston voiceover. It is new. Yeah. And, and I can't remember if they have voiceovers, but they don't have a single voice narrating the story of Loki. And

Jude

It's like you said, like you said, the story is not just a, it's not just like a hand holding your way through something. Like they actually weave a story into the making of.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. And the meaning the meaning of what this is. I think it's related to the fact that, you know, Falcon, the winter soldier I mean, you have, you have Bucky, but I don't know. It's Loki, Loki is a very strange character in his villain antihero hero. You know, return to the villain. He he's he's he has this very strange. I had no idea about the, the story that he, he was, he was at Comicon and (Kevin) Feige was like, come out as Loki.

And he comes out and he's lookingat the people, and the fans went wild and I was. That was back then, you know? And so that was th th I, I know they were playing because they, I mean, maybe a wink and a prayer in, in Feige's imagination, you know, maybe someday we'll do something, but like that, that, that was that was a, that was, he has good instincts obviously to just like, let's see where this goes, you know?

Jude

It's yeah. Well, and I remembered Loki or Tom Hiddleston doing that. I didn't realize that story. Yeah. I just didn't know the story behind it.

Trey

It was really cool To get that run-up and framing of it as like, oh, this was a last minute thing that they decided to do behind the panel.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

So that's my, my too long verbose.

Jude

No.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

It's been a lot since. It's been a lot since since I I've graced your airwaves on your podcast. So

Jude

Yeah, you came on with Falcon and the Winter Soldier, not during Loki, although we had this plan before Loki came out.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah, yeah.

Jude

So we had this kind of episode topic circled, and then you were on Tara's pod during Loki.

Trey

Okay. Yeah. Well, speaking of this episode, if you've downloaded it, then you've seen that the title of this episode is What Lessons Can Marvel Learn from the Disney Plus shows, so the easiest way that we can go through this is just kind of have like a round table sharing of the different lessons that we've brought here for this episode. So starting with you, Daniel, what is the first lesson that you think can be learned from the Disney plus shows?

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

In no particular order? I think I need to arrive at my lessons through reflection, so we'll get there. But for now, I will just say something that's excited me about this. The Disney plus is I feel like I feel the same way, especially with, with WandaVision and to some extent with Loki but I feel the same way as I did when I saw Guardians of the Galaxy, because I remember, you know, Avengers and Iron Man and they were great and they were of a genre.

Right. And then Guardians of the Galaxy was just blew it up. It was so different. And, and it was like, this is incredible. I felt like they use this opportunity to really take some risks that are bigger. And, and in a, in a blockbuster movie, when, when you have so much, so many moving parts and so much money not to say that there isn't there isn't money flowing through this, but th the, the level of risk taking, and so lessons learned is, you know, I hope it's paid off.

I think it has for, for Marvel. And I hope that they continue to, to do that. And based on kind of stuff that I've read, you know, Oscar Isaacs had like a cryptic tweet about Moon Knight

Jude

Aw, I didn't see that.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I sat, it sounds like they're there. It was just something like, it's gonna, it's wild, you know, it's just, yeah, I really think they're gonna, they're gonna keep doing that. And not in a way that's like edgy or, or, or controversial, but truly like in an aesthetic sense, risky, you know, like when I, and when I think of that, I think of like, WandaVision, what the hell are we watching? You know, it's like what? I'm literally sitting here watching.

I rewatched, I started rewatching WandaVision cause my parents hadn't seen it and I was visiting them. And I was like, you guys, haven't seen this, let's watch it. And I started to explain the backstory. I'm like done. Let's, let's just watch it. And I'm sitting there and they enjoyed it, but I'm like, we're watching a black and white fifties comedy. This is banana. This is crazy.

So, so, you know, I kinda, it just reminded me, you know, and then with Loki, it's like, we already had his story and now we're going back and we're going to like show you a drawer, a desk drawer, full of infinity stones. This is crazy. So I I like, I really like that. I think it's a good venue. For that. So that's kind of one that's that's, that's my first thought.

Trey

And I think you're spot on with the risky or the risks that these shows have taken. I know at least for us, when we were covering WandaVision, that was the first thing out of our mouths. I think each week when we talked about episode one and two and how bold it was to really lean in to the homages that it was making with the stylized storytelling. And I think it just continued doing that throughout each of the three disney plus show.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I made a note on this, on this point, it reminded me of my favorite shows growing up some aspects of my favorite shows growing up and how they were able to take big risks.

And you can do this in a show format, even though these shows are planned in a way that, that serialized TV that are like 22 episodes weren't so I'm thinking specifically of the X-Files and two episodes that stand out to me in a, in a huge way were Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose and it's it's a brilliant, very post-modern story that plays with perspective and the, the seams of near like storytelling it's one of the highest kind of regarded episodes

of the X-Files and it just pushed the boundaries on the traditional narrative that you'd gotten up to that point. And then the other, the other one was an episode called bad blood. Which is it, it's like a vampire episode, but it's really funny. And it's told from Mulder's perspective, and then it's told from Scully's perspective and, and, and the stories are different. Like the details are different, different things happen. It's, it's very, very funny and very, almost silly.

That's how I, that's kinda how I felt.

Jude

Well, it's funny. You mentioned we've talked about this Jose Chung's. Oh, is that isn't that the episode?

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

That's Clyde Brookman yeah.

Jude

Oh, that's Clyde Bruckman? Yeah. Or wait,

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

is it sick that I know exactly which season it is? It's in.

Jude

No, but I, I,

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Trey, you know how you are with Community I'm that that way with the X-Files

Trey

How disappointed would you be to find out I've never seen the X-Files?

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I, I understand it's Trey, I don't. There's no disappointment here. I promise.

Trey

Oh, fantastic!

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

There's no disappointment here. I probably

Trey

I was going for a rise, I'm genuinely shocked.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

My podcast, my pod, my podcast list. I'm behind my podcast list is plenty of TV. It's it's your loss. It's your loss

Jude

Jose Chung's From Outer Space.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Jose Chung's From Outer Space is a different episode than the one I'm talking about

Jude

Right.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Mine is called Clyde Bruckman's Finale Reprose, which is the same season, but it's a totally different episode, but yeah, Jose Chung is another one like that. Yeah. It's like very, very weird. Th then there's there, like in, in Buffy

Jude

In fairness toTrey, in fairness to Trey season three aired in 1996.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Oh yeah. This is ancient

Trey

I would have been five, six years old, depending on the month.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Perfect age to watch this stuff. Yeah. But there's like, there's like in Buffy they had like the musical episode. They had a Zander centric episode in angel, there was a friggin puppet episode where they get chain turned into puppets. And so like, I see this in, in that vein where you've got these, these, these TV shows that had deep fan fan bases where the, the show runners or the writers took these risks and there were payoffs. Oh yeah. I feel like we're getting that here.

And I feel like we're, they're gesturing towards it in, in Thor Love and Thunder. I feel like we're gonna get this in Thor Love and Thunder and Dr. Strange, like, I feel like we're, we're going to, it's going to be weird.

Jude

Well, one more episode that came to mind. Avatar Last Airbender Tales of Ba Sing Se

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Which remind me that I'm not, I only watch it once

Jude

Tales of Ba Sing Se is the one where they each had their little vignette of how they spend the day.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Oh yeah. It's a freaking cartoon, like on Nickelodeon and it's like, it's just like it's so it's, it's, it's really good. And it's, it's, it's basic writing. I mean, it's not invented. New ways of doing things. They're just, they're adopting storytelling strategies from other genres and other, other mediums. It's just really cool. Like I just, yeah, no, that's, that's good. That's a good first

Trey

lesson, but what about you, dude? What's a lesson that can be learned from the Marvel shows.

Jude

I'm going to say for me a lesson this is more like a hope, something that they, they do in the future. I would like to see two more episodes. I it's, and I don't know if it's, I'm just gotten used to kind of that Netflix,

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

you mean like 10 episodes or eight

Jude

episodes, like, right. Two, two more episodes, 10 episodes instead of eight, which is weird for one division only because they had eight episodes, but a big part of that is this idea that they're married to six hours. And so you had some longer episodes and you had some that were shorter, so that didn't make an eight episodes, but you really time-wise is roughly the same. I would say two more episodes. I, and I, I just got finished watching mayor of east town, which I just really enjoyed.

And that was, and this is weird because it goes against what I just said, but that was about seven hours and seven episodes. So I know it can be done. I just feel like with what. They're trying to do with these Disney plus shows. Two more episodes is something that would, would, would benefit the

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

series. There'd be, it would give them a little bit more room to breathe. It really

Jude

would. It really would. Well, I mean, I've heard a number of people say this loved to have seen a little bit more, including I think in the assembled the writer loved to seen a little bit more of rinse layer. Yeah. And, and her story, and you know, that one or two more episodes would help flesh out some of those things. Yep. Same thing with Carly and Falcon, the winter

Trey

soldier, for sure. I think even to an extent with, with Monica and Wanda vision, like she got a, she got an episode dedicated to her, but I know towards the end of the finale, it was almost kind of like she got sidelined for different stories. So I, I definitely feel that Daniel, I think you hit the nail on the head of, or no, I believe you said it. Jude, how you just got used to Netflix or HBO having these like eight to 10 episode runs.

I think that is the sweet spot and I understand that they're doing it probably for budgetary reasons just because they are spending a lot, but six just it's cutting it close.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I, I think that they it's, these three series are experiments and they've worked and I don't think they're going away, but we've talked about this before. None of these shows have learned lessons from each other because they were all. Being produced at the same time. I think they, they were like, we're going with X or Y or whatever. There was six hours.

And the, the one thing I will say a, I think the mark of a good show, unless it can really hit that catharsis, like just the perfect catharsis that leaves you feeling whole, I want a good show. We'll leave you wanting more. But especially with Loki, you're getting a season two and it's different than like Falcon and winter soldier where, you know, like Carly's story is over. And, and even if there, even if there is any attention paid to it, it's, it's, it's over and done.

Whereas Loki story and the characters in it are not done. Like there were deliberate threads left, open, and that, and, and it, it was good on the level of it's a good world-building show, but it's also good in levels. Like we're getting a season two. So there has to be. Like meaningful threads left.

Trey

Right? Well, I think I can jump in with mine because that segues nicely. So thank you for that set up Daniel. The lesson that I wanted to bring in this first round is I think the other three shows the ones that succeeded the most for me were the ones that treated the episodes. As a series and not as a movie that's been chopped up. And that was the feeling I got with Falcon and winter soldier.

Like it had, it had its connective tissues, but there was this feeling of like watching one long movie and only getting it on a week to week basis. The one division, I think it told complete stories while leaving enough to keep us going through the season. Low-key I think had a wonderful handle on.

And that's what I want to see moving forward with these shows and the reason this kind of segues off what you were saying, Daniel, is that knowing it's getting a season two, I think there is maybe, maybe there's some comfort in that knowing like you don't have to hit everything in this first season, whether or not the audience knows that I'm sure there's, there's an understanding going into the production.

Yeah, the lesson that I I'd like to see moving forward with these distinct plus shows is kind of identifying the format of this week to week, rather than it being written the AB cadence that we talked about in, in the binge mode for Daredevil,

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

What I hear you saying tray, the way I would interpret this embrace, embrace the format, like embrace this episodic format. Like it's it it's, it's not, it's not a six hour movie. That's this Snyder go. You know what I mean? Like that, and. No, I'm not gonna say it. So this is, this is, I agree with you about Falco and winter soldier. Like there was, it was a constant, it was linear more or less. It was linear.

And it was, it was a, it was a movement through the stories and the, the beautiful things that we got were the character development, because they devoted time to it. But unlike low-key, which had some truly earth shattering like there were, there were these real kind of cliffhangers that made you revisit everything that you'd seen before.

And you can mark off, like each of those episodes in the same way with Wanda vision, you had the, the sitcoms, but then it, it would break and you go into the real world. Then you go back on the sit-com and then th the, the, the realities bend. I think I S I said that. I think I said this on terrorist pot.

I don't, I don't remember, but when I was contrasting one division with Loki, one division made the Metta, the, the, the, the, the format of the show, that Metta aspect in essential aspect of the, of the show. Loki took that and made it a part of the narrative. So it was like, you actually take the character out of his context and then show it to him, you know, and, and then play with that. Yeah. I definitely, I think I definitely agree with you, Trey. I like how I like no,

Trey

and I like the way that you're so succinctly put it with the embrace, the format. I think that's a very nice way to package that feeling that I'm having is just leaning into that these are series focused more on.

Jude

Well, I'm gonna say, it's interesting with one division, you had that feeling early on, like there was a TV format, but that was more because of the concept. And as he got closer and closer to the end and ran the course of that concept, it, it shifted to that movie field rather than television field. And so in that way, I don't know if this is the right way to phrase it. Our one division, especially early on artificially treated it as a movie. I mean, I'm sorry. As a TV series.

And, and always want to say artificially, she just going to

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

translate it

Jude

transferred. Right, right. Yeah. And whereas like I'm with, you know, it it's embraced the format. Right.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

And Jude, I would say if we can be honest, like it suffered for that, like by, I'm not saying they made it, they made a poor choice in abandoning. They had to abandon the sitcom thing. But the critique of say the finale is that it just fell into the trap of how you complete a Marvel movie, which is a big fight scene, you know? And it was like, oh, we're trying to be cinematic, which has, well, you didn't really have the budget for the, for the fight.

And you know, that wasn't really the point of the story. It was about her and her grief. And you spent like 30 seconds on it at the end. You know what I mean? And, and said you haven't fallen around the sky. So, so it, it was, whereas in Loki, there was no, there was no Big final action scene. It was a very emotional dance fight. You know, not Dan. I mean, it was an elegant fight between these characters who are having a real disagreement, you know, between Lokey and Sylvia. They're there.

These two people who are, who are growing closer and have affection for each other are having a real disagreement. And it comes out in that carefully choreographed fight. Well, and

Jude

coming off the civil documentary, this whole idea of the show being self-acceptance and self-love, and they have this one last final fight with themselves. You know, and torn and what is, is, is the best thing to do. It just works so well, you know, we're and I think I mentioned this on pod. Like I would love to have seen in one division to have them continue that thread through what the mysterious ESC kind of scene going through the sitcoms in the end and make and instill in her, weave that

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

in kind of drawing off of the, the tray where we're at right now about embracing the format. I really enjoyed the week to week release and watch and rewatch and discuss. And obviously like we learned we, the audience learned a grave lesson with Wanda vision and in terms of like going off the rails and, and, and building expectations with, you know, perceived whatever. But that happens in shows.

I mean, I, I, I watched lost as it was happening and the same exact, like the reason why I, I was really kind of a curmudgeon or a screw. During that during Wanda vision. And, you know, I was kind of, I was kind of teasing you about, you know, like, oh, you know, maybe it's someone else. You know, and, and I was just like, no, it's not. It's like just popping that bubble is because I had gone through that with earlier shows.

But, you know, unlike say, you know, the the earlier Marvel shows where you'd, it would all drop and show still do this. So like, you've got the boys, you've got like the Amazon prime shows and Netflix shows the whole show drops. And even if you're not going to binge at all, it's kind of, that's how you consume the show. I like this, this actually, this experience reminds me more of when I used to watch TV as a kid and you you'd have to wait each week and watch.

And I appreciated that and I hope that they continue to do that. I don't, I don't, it must be a win for them in terms of marketing and prep. Right. Oh

Trey

yeah. I mean, the conversations around the show get lengthened just because of

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

that weekly viewing. Yeah. So I don't, I don't see, I don't see it going away. I'm glad the series aren't 22 episodes. I don't know how you can sustain that.

Jude

Yeah. Like that's too much.

Trey

I love Marvel. I love the MCU. 22 episodes would be a lot for me to keep up with,

Jude

well, to bounce off that I would just say embrace the MCU is one of my lessons learned and I feel like they're going to do that. And I guess what I mean by that is go ahead and make this required viewing. And I think they kind of did that at the end of low-key where you get, he who remains. I didn't expect it to be him for the same reason, logically, like we didn't get somebody new in one division.

And I, and I get, there's like, oh, we can do that because there's a season two, but he who remains king mortis, whatever you want to say is going to go beyond just low-key. And I feel like. This idea of embracing the MCU? Well, his friend Dana was just saying it right. Like I was watching last, you know, and, and it reminded me that television reminded me that same thing in terms of watching TV, being able to talk about it for a week.

But even if, you know, you're not going to have a season to say one division, you know, their stories don't necessarily in their, I mean, white vision, right. Scarlet, witch, even ag of the Harkness, their stories don't end there. So in that way, I think it's okay to introduce somebody new. Well, they did that in fucking winter soldier, Val, right? Yeah. So I think it would have been okay.

And say for them to say, we're just going to embrace the universe and give you that, you know, my Festo here that will show up

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

again later. So like, if I think back to. To what, to what you're saying. I know you've been debating and I have been off pod with you guys. Like, did, do you have to, are these shows required watching? I don't know how you, you get to the, the, the content that's coming without having watched low-key. But like, if you think about like Wanda vision, you've got Scarlet witch, right. And there's, there's a transformation happening there. You've got Monica. Who's absolutely coming back.

You've got an in Falcon, winter soldier, he's captain America that there that's coming, you know? No, but however I think you're right. That in so far as they do embrace the MCU in those smaller ways, certainly in those, in those shows and in a really big way, what they did with Loki at the end. I think that, I think it's good. I think they, I think I also. I also want to see these characters elsewhere.

So like in, in a kind of reversal of what you're saying, it's like, okay, we were invested in, in these characters, like Mobius is awesome. Wren. Slayer's awesome. Being at B 15 is awesome. Sylvia's is awesome. Like, I want to see these characters interact in, in this broader universe. That's what made the MTUS Thor with the guardians of the galaxy was brilliant. It made it like it reinvented Thor, you know what I mean?

Like, and so just having these characters interact, you know, whereas like early in, in like phase one Ironman kind of stands on its own, but then, you know, there's this kind of admission like, oh, look like captain America and Thor were kind of driving towards the Avengers so that you could get them together. But now we've got these shows that are, are coherent and really stand on their own in, in entertaining ways. But I want to see them, you know, elsewhere.

So I'm kind of taking what you said, Jude and. A little bit. Does that make sense? No, it does make

Jude

sense. It does the

Trey

thing that it's making me feel and you kind of alluded to it with the way you framed it as like iron man was standalone Thor and captain America, they were building towards the Avengers and eventually got to this point where like, Hey, we've got them together now. So you do get things like Thor and the guardians or captain America, civil war, and they're together, or a lot more of these crossover events, Carol and Nick fury. You can do these interconnected things.

And I think that kind of ties back into what you were saying, Jude about like embracing the MCU. Maybe these are just the stepping stones of the shows, getting more comfortable doing that. Because you know, I, I think you said it last week. I want these to be required viewing too. Like I think it, it just rewards the investment of taking the time to.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

And they're good. They're good. And the characters are entertaining and I want to see them again.

Jude

I mentioned in the beginning of this pod, Hawkeye has this release date. We know that Julaine is going to show up. We know we're going to get Kate Bishop rumors. I'm going to say rumors right now. Okay. But I think it's almost confirmed kingpin. Oh, you show up and Hawkeye. So we're getting some new characters, but for the most part, we're following old characters, Ms. Marvel's going to be the first one where it's directly brand new character.

And so what I'm really curious as the approach of this show of miss Marvel in terms of, is it going to have the six hour movie feel? Are they going to go mode more TV series feel cause they're, you're getting an origin story that will carry later,

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

right? That's a good point. I see what you're saying. Yeah. The three series we've gotten so far have been operating with fully established characters and, and Ms. Marvel, and then like moon night, you know, when that whole hike she helped the whole, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're not worried about that one.

Trey

Well, you eventually

Jude

get to this point touching on him as a lot. He's

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

awesome. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to be gold.

Trey

I mean, I think it just circles back to your, to your, or bolstering your points, Jude about embracing it. Like I think it almost has to, because you're doing these origin stories. How could it not matter to the connectivity of the movies as well?

Jude

Right. But I'm also curious of what the impact's going to be on how they did the storytelling, because there you have an origin you have to wrestle with you. Can't just jump in like Loki. We, we mentioned, or, you know, friend Daniel mentioned the, the meta idea of just I'm going to take him out of his own story. Make them look at it and then see what happens. But you can only do that because we know his story. There's a story in place.

Same thing with Wanda vision, you can go back and mine, the little details from age of Ultron and those types of things to kind of build and flesh out a story. Whereas this is a story from scratch

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

in Falcon, winter soldier. Ache. There's a massive question, mark. Coming off of end game. You know, this picks up from that literally is answering the question. W w what does Sam do, you know, in, in what, how do salmon Bucky deal with the fact that their friend has gone and yeah, that I, I hadn't thought about that Jude very much. It's a really good,

Trey

good

Jude

point. Cool,

Trey

man, it's been a while since we've dropped a Nick Sandy, like that, bringing it back.

Jude

Yeah, no doubt in there,

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Trey. I don't know why I thought of you, but mostly because I'm watching community and now I know where you get the phrase end tag from, but the the we've been, we've been very positive. Well, no, I, I feel like we've been very measured, but leaning on the positive, but I think kind of critically, and I know you guys agree with me is like, we, we, we all kind of agree that their use of Intacs in or make credit scenes or whatever in these were, were either confusing.

Obviously there was important information revealed in them and that that's a departure from how they've kind of functioned in the past, either as kind of like humor or connecting it to a future installment, et cetera, et cetera. So a tease, you know, it's, it's. At best we've been like, huh. You know, or, you know, like, like, like what, like no, you know, or her, or just interested in your thoughts about that guys?

Trey

Yeah. I mean, that's 100%. The next lesson that I was going to bring is the Intacs definitely need to be readdressed. You know, we talked about it a little bit with Loki, especially when Rob Logan was on and you know, my feelings just to state it clearly the Intacs for me, feel like they either are a humorous, just kind of extraneous little bit that has nothing to do with the snow steaks. Right. Group dancing you know, just stuff like that.

The, the aunt playing drums and ant man, and the wasp though, that does have an undertone of other things it's mainly just humorous or the other route. I think

Jude

both of them though, both of those that you mentioned also had an in tag that had a connective tissue

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

as well. There were multiple end tags. Well, that's what I

Trey

was going to say. Like the, the, the other. I think successful use of them is that laying the groundwork for what comes next? I think the problem that the Disney plus shows got into is they were using pertinent information to the story within the show that I think shouldn't have been relegated to like the post credit

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

scenes creating the were creating cliffhangers. I mean, it was like, like with the, with the Lokeys it's like you, you P you prune our Loki and then you end the episode. That's a cliffhanger what's going to happen. Is he dead? Is he dead? Or do you, do you think maybe he's alive, but you don't know. And then you, you reveal that he's not, but you reveal these other Loki's. So we talk about that. Like, I understand why they do it.

And not because they didn't want people to think he wasn't dead, but they wanted to introduce the Lokeys so that people could talk about them for the week. That's my opinion about that. I think that's why they, that, that that's probably, I can understand that choice even though I think narrative.

I think it's more impactful to like, put that off for a week, whether or not we've killed our main character, but it supports what you're saying Trey about like you put very pertinent information in a mid credit scene. Like, well, shoot, I need a way to get us to just watch the credits. Is that all all? Is that just where we are? We are we're at now. Like, I don't know. I watched credits anyway, cause they're good. Well, I mean,

Trey

I went back through to, to watch all the intaglio for the show so far, and I was shocked to be reminded. We don't learn that director Hayward is arrested and told the post credit scene. It's like a little one-off thing of seeing him be putting in a car, why Monica is being pulled away. And like that's one of your main antagonist. And like that's something that needs to be in the show. Rather than thought.

Jude

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we've, we talked about the tag problem all the way back to Wanda vision. I think it was the snoopers going to Snoop one. Yeah. You know, which was a good Intacct, but it was like, it was like, why not just, why couldn't that be in the show, but it was, it felt like you're going to start the show with her captured and you need to figure out a way to do it. Right.

Whereas you could've had the same feeling and effect, I guess, as an audience on the audience, by having that within the show itself, you know, intercutting that within what's going on.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Were, were there any other tray, were, were there any other end tags and Loki Loki? No,

Trey

it was the group shot. And the season two announcement, which is honestly a step above the vendor's trailer and captain America, the first set, not

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

even an end tag,

Jude

I didn't consider that intact. I was disappointed. I didn't tell it. Wasn't intact.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I mean, I was pleasantly surprised. I mean, I would have liked an intact though. I felt like we deserved it. You know what they could

Jude

have done, you know, what they really could have done. You could have, and I'm not saying this is the best way to go, but it would have been consistent with the way they're treating in tags. The reveal of Mobius in hunter 15, not knowing Logan. And then locally seeing the statue of king.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

That was the, that would be the end tag. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I don't know. I thought it was perfect. Well, I'm

Jude

torn because I agree. Like, I don't think

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

you're saying like, if, if they're being

Jude

consistent, if they're being consistent with how they're

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

doing, we would've thought it was crap. We would've thought it was crappy, but at least you're consistently crap.

Trey

Oh no, I totally see what you mean. Like I love, I love the way he was handled, but it would have felt right in line if they would have done that. Yeah.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

And then, and then at the end tag, the Intex in a Falcon winter soldier one, I remember. John Walker making his shield. Right.

Trey

And the other one was the power broker coming out of the hearing where she's been reinstated. Right. And she's like, super soldiers are off the menu, but we're about to get access to government weapons and stuff like that. And then the slight

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

smile, whereas the, there was, but it wasn't, it wasn't. Oh, but Lee, the Patriot, right. Him, him or us agent him becoming us agent that was in the episode, right? Yes. That's that feels like an end tag, right? Yes.

Jude

Are we flipping them?

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I know I'm I'm Trey when watched him. So I'm, I'm certain that that were introduced to USC. In the episode that I feel like

Jude

belongs. So basically, yeah. So basically they should have flipped. Those were so smart.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Well,

Trey

well, you know what? I forgot. I had wrote this a little bit that I forgot to do at the top. You know, we're so frequently putting our writer's hat on whenever we do week to week episodes this week, we're putting our studio execs hat on. Yes.

Jude

Yeah. Can I, can I throw out a small, no, I'm not gonna say small. A rumor that I heard about the, the PowerBroker thing is we're talking about that in the tags, even though it has, if right. Potential spoilers down the line, I'll

Trey

say yes, but like, I guess, you know, if you're avoiding it, scroll ahead for like 30, 40 seconds. Okay.

Jude

Okay. Oh man. Now, now I'm not sure. Cause it connects

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

to Spiderman. Okay. Don't wait. Don't say it well, just cut it out and then say it

Jude

again. I'll drop it. Forget

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

it. I'll drop it. Well, I want to know what it is. I've been sitting on this, but I'll I'll, this is the second rumor that you've dropped in this. This is it's true. Bad Jude. You did

Trey

the

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

kingpin one. Well, that's all over the news. I feel like that's over. They've been reporting that

Jude

and like, and like the only reason why I felt comfortable bringing it up is because Vincent is that

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

saying that

Trey

right? Trey, Vincent and Vincent done off for you. And I know this because this is a running bit now it's your turn to get it wrong.

Jude

So so yeah, but no, like. I think either is retweeted or liked and he's pretty active on Twitter. Yeah. An article or something about the rumor that it could be interpreted as like how he just, you know, wants it to happen. But people are interpreting it as a confirmation.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Well, I'm going to find this now. Yeah.

Trey

I'm very curious about the Spiderman thing.

Jude

Now I'll tell you what I'll tell you off. I'll tell you when we're done recording.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Okay, cool. So another lesson that I was thinking about was just a lot of the production aspects of the, of the shows, but especially with Loki was the, it gets connected with the risk-taking, but the music was tremendous. And so I, and, and I've gone and listened to look. I enjoyed listening to the Falcon of the winter, winter soldier soundtrack more than I expected. I, and that caused me to kind of go back and listen to some of the soundtracks.

The scores of other movies, but but Loki's elevate was elevated and it was very moving at the, at the moments when it like good music. Signals good music follows the, the, the, the story. It doesn't dictate it in, in my opinion. And so it just, it just, it, it was extremely moving and fun. And there's a meme that I posted on discord, or maybe I sent it to you, but it's like, Hey, you know, composer, like, we need a, we need a an outro for the, for, for Loki.

And it shows the person like, like jumping on a piano, that's on fire, you know, on the ocean or something like that. That's like, that's like, it's like, Hey, we just need an outro for, for for the, for the epic, for this episode of Loki. And it's like, like the piano on fire. It's just like, it just totally like, like blew. It blew me away. I was like, whoa. You know, I remember watching the end credits two or three times. So I thought that was a great investment. Bye you don't see that often.

This is my point. See, I told you Trey, it takes me a little while to get there. This is my point. They may, they clearly made a unique investment in their scoring on low-key. And I want to see more of that, more of that, because you rarely see a show, right? New and credits music for every episode, it just doesn't happen. It's just, it's not the it's not standard practice.

Unless you're choosing like true blood used to choose used to, they used to name their episodes after song lyrics, and then the song would play at the end of the show and it was, it was relevant and it was cool, but most shows play like a standard, you know, upbeat or whatever, you know, law and order or something. This, this was. And, and, and I'm fairly certain that. One division and one division barely had a score at the end.

It was a very dark ominous, you know, but it was the same thing every time I think.

Jude

Yeah. One divisions intro outro. Yeah. Wonder I was gonna say one division outro was the same each time. Yes. And then the intro is different, but that was a function of

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

the whole storytelling that was straight up storytelling.

Jude

The sitcom format. Yeah.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

And, and low-key, it was just for the, it was just for the sake of it. I love that. I think that's awesome. It speaks to the aesthetic of the show in the sense that it takes aesthetics in themselves. It's like, this is good in itself. It's not it's it's it actually it's excessive. And it's it's in line with Loki.

Jude

Well, what does the symbol say? Loki plays all

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

the keys, right? Plays. That was, oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, that show he plays all the keys. So, I mean, that's, it, it was, it was, it was indulgent. It wasn't excessive because excessive denotes, it was a little too much, it was indulgent like a big bowl of ice cream, you know, or something, something you shouldn't have too much of. It was indulgent and I love indulgent. I love big fat books. Like I love reading like thousand page books. That was, that was, that's what you get with low-key.

So maybe we won't see it in the future because because it's not in character with what we're, what we're getting, but that's definitely,

Jude

but it works so well. It you're right. The end of an episode would leave you a particular feeling and they wouldn't take you out of the feeling with the outro music

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

they kept you in and then they, but you also saw it with the, the, the, the care for the, the unique aesthetic of the place. Of the TVA of the of the rocks cart setting of the Citadel they were of momentous was, was mind blowing. And that's not too, that's not, I'm not trying to take away from the very careful, wonderful work that was done on Falcon, winter, soldier, and one division. It just, maybe it speaks to my imagination more. It speaks more to my imagination. It was indulgent. Yeah,

Trey

I think, cause you're definitely right. The, the steps they took with Loki in the music created that tailored experience, the way it changed on, you know, at the end of the episode, but you know, you're echoing one of the things I wrote down, I think all three of the series had great music and it seems like it's a great lesson moving forward to keep investing.

As you said with, with the attention to that music, because that was something that I remember reading as a very common criticism with the MCU, like outside of few of the recognizable of interesting, maybe this could be just because I'm the captain America fan the winter soldier one always stuck out to me. Other than that, there wasn't really a lot of recognizable ones in the MCU. And the fact that.

Three Disney plus shows have come in and they have been a lot more identifiable, I think, as a great, hopefully continued lesson for not only Disney plus shows just the Marvel studios moving forward. Yeah,

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I think that absolutely. In, in like in picking up in what you're saying, Trey, I think that each, each of these shows had its own unique flavor. And I think it's fair to say that Falcon with winter soldier was definitely playing to that more traditional Marvel movie. It's definitely what you were getting. One division, very unique in his character. Low-key very unique in its character.

My lesson, my, my, my hope with Marvel is that they, they continue to let their creative teams do that and make, make them not formulaic, I guess that's to make it crass. Like I don't, I, that was actually one of my fears going into this was, was that they were going to be, they were just going to be similar. No.

Jude

Well, I'm wondering if that's just going to be a trend for the MCU in general. And, and it's hard to judge right now only because I'm thinking about how wild we expect Dr. Strange and Spiderman Noah home to be we have Sean cheek coming out and black widow like that movie, as much as I agree, like, oh, we should've had it sooner in terms of a black widow movie. I agree that we don't get that movie, that same movie if it was sooner. And I think that part of that is that comfortability.

You almost, you know, we're, we're starting to see of letting these creators create and get a little bit more leeway with their style among the shared universe.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I see what you're saying, dude, as it relates to black widow, I see what you're saying, that that kind of unique stamp and I mean, there in the

Jude

sheriffs are a perfect place to do these Disney plus shows. Perfect place to do

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

that. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

Trey

yeah. I think that is a good swath of lessons to be learned from these Disney plus shows. So we're going to move into this next section, which is simply, which of the three shows is the closest model of your examples. I have a feeling based on the enthusiasm, but I'll go ahead and ask Daniel, which one is the one that executes it closely?

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Low-key yeah. And that's just because I think I identified it there at the end. Of my last point is, is the, the, the specific aesthetic and feel of Loki, what it's trying to do the specific content to about self-acceptance and the radical way in which it was operating narratively, each episode, kind of undercutting, undercutting, what was quote true before? Like it, it would present itself coherently.

I thought mostly Jude. And and and, and then, and then it would, it would, it would pull the rug out. To, to further the story, but it was mind-bending and it used inter used interlude episodes. You guys call it AB well, you mentioned,

Jude

you say interlude, you mentioned it on Ontario's pod

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

spot. It's her word? She, she introduced that when she was when she had her guests ch on and I talked about it because I thought it was such a great concept to help me understand. What was going on in episode three.

Jude

Right. But it, it, it just the way you, the way you spoke about it on terrace pod was it was in the context of music, right?

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. And I've also seen that concept used in certain theology, monographs and philosophy books, you know, like, like arguments that people make. They will have a chapter. That's an interlude where they introduce something that seems out of left field, but it's, it's, it's like it's a way of playing the motif of your argument using, using something that, that seems to be kind of out there, but

Jude

Gladwell so

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

much. Why? Because he does the interlude. What do you mean?

Jude

That's his whole style to take seemingly well, I mean, this is his whole style, right? As a deconstructionist, let's just take this whole seemingly left-field things that you're like, what am I, what are we to and talking about this? And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah,

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

yeah. He's he's I love Malcolm Gladwell, but he's too cute by half. Like sometimes like he's, he's a little excessive. Yeah. He's excessive. And he's a bit, he's a bit, he's got the journalistic flat. He leans more not to knock journalists. I would say he's got the, he's a show. He's a bit of showman, but he's, he's he's certainly fun and makes you think.

But but yeah, so that's quick answer Loki in terms of what was the most satisfying for me, but in, I will say we can't truly compare Loki to the other two CS series until low-key has done so until we get a true series finale, we cannot, it, we can't compare it to the other series and maybe it's in comparable because those were limited series and low-key got multiple seasons where they could, they could do a season, learn lessons and then produce

another season that in itself, you can't, you know, it's not a limited series. However, I've always maintained. It's very difficult to end a series. Very difficult, like and to do it in a way that's satisfying and that, that you're never going to make people have everybody happy, but Loki did not have to confront that issue because it is not over.

And so you can't, you can't, I really don't think it's, it's possible to involve, involve Loki in that conversation that we had about this, the series finale of, of Falcon, winter soldier, and one division, because it's, it's, it's not over yet. There were deliberate threads left, open. So characters resolved in, in one division and in Falcon when the soldier that did not resolve in Loki Sylvie's character is not there. There's like a big question, mark, hanging on her on rent Slayer.

To some extent on low-key, you know, has just experienced this betrayal, you know but we're going to see more so, so

Jude

yeah. Well, I'm going to say, go back and say, that's the problem with not two things, not embracing the MCU fully and not embracing the TV format, just because. If, you know, this story is going to continue in the universe. And as a limited series, I think you lean into that roll into it, and you don't feel the pressure of having to complete it, like complete your story here, knowing that I have this story and it's done, but it's clearly going to continue on elsewhere and that's okay.

And I think that the problem with treating it like a six hour movie or chopped up, it just didn't lend itself to that because I mentioned earlier, like I just finished watching that mayor of east town, which I thoroughly enjoyed. That's a limited series and they ended it well, you know, it's possible to do. Yeah. It's unbelievably possible. We've been the TV miniseries. We've been doing it for a long time. Yeah.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

What do you, so what do you guys I'll present the question to you guys?

Jude

Just the metaphor of MCU fatigue in the truck and Falcon pushing back against it. Whereas the Disney plus shows come in.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I

Jude

had to get it in there. Yeah, no, I agree with you that it's low-key but I also agree with you to say low-key probably had the advantage in the season too.

Trey

Yeah, no, I, I think you kind of shed some light on that for me as well. Daniel, when you talked about how it's, it's not a fair comparison for Loki and the other two shows, given that it has that continuation to the next season. So the way you phrase it, Jude with that, an unfair advantage is kind of where

Jude

I'm at now. Even with that in mind. W w before knowing that Logan was going to have a season two, each episode of Loki felt like a proper end, like you would get with a TV series. Yeah. And so before knowing that, and just the experience of watching it, regardless of my feelings and bogged down in mechanics and all of that, at the end of each episode, it felt like the end of an episode, and we're going to wait a week for the next episode.

And so while that is an advantage, Loki clearly did that better.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. I agree that the, the best example of that for me is episode three, when we're all watching, waiting for them to get off the planet or something. And it's just over there looking up, it blows up Sylvie turns around and walks away and it's over. And you're like, you don't do this to us. What are you, what are you doing? I mean, that's not. That's geez.

I mean, it was, it was, and, and it also spoke to how riveting that episode was in terms of like, it was, it was heavy dialogue, which was very interesting. And then this like one quote, one shot panned, you know, panning shot that like, you know, running, running through this town. And then it's just like over, you know, I, I was, I was on the edge of my seat.

Jude

Well, I'd say the same thing when Moebius and Loki got pruned and undercutting that moment with the intact. Yeah. Like, like they were able to pull the rug out from under us and expectations. It's like, oh man. Yeah. I

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

thought they killed them because for two reasons, one, they had already killed Moebius. So they foreshadowed it. The state, they foreshadowed the stakes mobi for me. Moebius. Character arc had completed. I think I talked about this in Tara's pod. He had just completely flipped and betrayed Brent Slayer and freed low-key and was like, you've been lying to us. His character story had had resolved. And so I was like, oh, he's dead. You know? Cause he's like, he, he, he hasn't more function.

And then, and they, and they did it. So, so I was like, wow. And then when it happened to low-key, I was like, oh my gosh, they totally did the same thing. And also he, he, in his mind had cared. He cared about Sylvie, I guess I'm, I'm talking myself out of it though. If he had said, I love you or I care about you and she heard it, but he didn't actually say it. So, no, they didn't say, you know, if he had said it and then been pruned and he was dead and now the.

With Sylvie and it's about Sylvie. Yeah, but but I, I, I agree Jude with that, with that characterization, you know, and, and, and episode two, when they, when they blew up the timeline, when, when she said all the, the, the charges off and blew up the timeline, which, which I think that I can forgive them of that now, because it was a foreshadowing of the final scene when the actual timeline. Like, like blows up, you know, with Kang,

Jude

you know, and I'm sure I'm thinking through one division, it's hard to tell because so many episodes in the beginning had that sitcom format. Right. And then you start to, and they played with that to take you in and out of the show and even where you roll the credits, but the credits got interrupted with the eighties format, you know, and, and you got sucked in, in faculty, the winter soldier.

I feel like man, the only episode that really comes to mind where I, the ending of that you get, that kind of feeling was when the Wakandans showed up. But that's the only ending right now that sticks out to me. I'm sitting

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

here

Jude

thinking, yeah. I mean, the only other that I can think of the one where

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

they kills that guy in the street. Yeah. Yeah. But that was just, that was just brutal. Right. You know, that was just brutal. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like, it wasn't like a, it was just a brutal and then it was like, oh

Jude

yeah. But in the terms of like, just yeah. Yeah. So that's a good one. Those two.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. It was memorable. It was memorable. So yeah. What about what about you, Trey? Yeah, I

Trey

mean, it's my answers low-key as far as the, yeah, examples given throughout the episode, it's just that one, I think ticks all the boxes of the lessons that I want to see continued moving forward. Well, I think that is going to do it for these lessons learned, but before we wrap up, we do want to do one little fun question, which is if Disney plus existed through the infinity saga, what show would you pitch to Marvel?

I, I can just say, at least for me, I would have loved to have seen a show in between age of Ultron and civil war as maybe not necessarily like like I, the only word come to mind is training montage, but seeing that new quote unquote Avengers team start to really gel because you had that ending shot with Falcon, with vision Scarlet witch, and like the quote unquote new adventures, I think it would have made civil war that much more impactful if we would have gotten to get

close to those characters a little bit

Jude

more. Yeah. I was thinking like, you know, a Hawkeye stay at home. Dad runs a local bowling alley. You know, on the farm? No. Oh, that might be interesting. God, I know that that's where it's difficult where my first idea feels so generic and probably why I'm better as a backseat writer, executives, actual writer, executive cause part of me.

Well, and I'm wondering if also would, just because we haven't finished and we have a pretty cool, you know, field, no matter what it is right now, the thing that keep coming back to is I love to see Theranose attack on Nova. Oh. To get the power stone, not the power stone, the, a space, the space stone. Well, I guess, I guess he had, yeah, no, it was the space stone. Yeah.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

There's two ways to think about this question. One is. To imagine gaps in the story, right. That you could fill in or, you know, and like, so I'm thinking, was it you guys who talked about, like, someone talked about like a series where you follow is it Luis and man and might've been me like, yeah. It just like, I was, I'm looking at my Disney plus app and I'm looking at all the movies

Jude

1, 2, 3, 4.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. And I'm like, it must've been a question of the week or something, but then it's like, you know, that would be it. Maybe it was the same question, Trey, like what Disney plus show would you like to see back in the summer of 2020 when you guys, when we were starved of content, but like, but like I was thinking like, are we getting a group cartoon or something? Yes, I am. I want to see, I want to see that I thought of guardians and I was like, oh, I'd love to see like a rocket.

Cartoon or like a rocket group series. I think that would be very, very satisfying to me because they they're hilarious, but they can do emotional now. Maybe they need humans to, to, to, to cipher that. But that's something that I was thinking. But back to my original point, like it's either something that is fills the gaps or that looks at what we see from a different perspective, maybe. Right.

Trey

The way you categorize that as like either filling in the gaps or from a different perspective, which would be

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

really, really

Jude

cool. Hmm. See different perspective. What would I want fleshed out

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

or like what you were saying, Jude, I know you're joking, but like, you know, like a different format, right. You know, like, like, like a risk, a risky wild take on. On something. Well, you could go

Jude

back.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Oh, wow. Oh my gosh. The winter soldier, the winter soldier. Yeah. The winter soldier that I want to see that series. I want to see that series.

Jude

Well, so you can go back cause they didn't hit me and they clearly established Hank Pym acting as ant man younger. And you could give kind of adventures of man and wash Janet van Dyne. That would be

Trey

fantastic.

Jude

I still think, I still think the green acres Hawkeye would be fun though. You, you can just see where he breaks the tractor, where Tony has to fix it because he doesn't know what he's doing with it.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

So I remember when, when Wanda vision started and then when we were in the thick of Falcon, when the soldier we talked about the post. Blip world the, the, like the blip, like the what? Like what happened? Like the five-year gap? Yeah. Yeah. The five-year gap, like stuff happened. That'd be really, really cool stuff

Jude

happened. What I feel like, I know Elitch's answer. Would we want an agents of sword show kind of build in right there up to one division?

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I was, I was on the discord during that, when I was listening to that pod. Yeah. Harsh, harsh on a for sure.

Jude

Yes. Yeah. Well, you know what? She, not only she came in swinging there's stuff. There's some swing she made before we even started recording. They didn't even make it.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

I can understand though. Cause when, when that show first started, I was quite invested in it. And it was definitely connected to the MCO. Yes. It was written by Jaya with like the early seasons were written or at least conceived by Josh Sweden with his brother. Yeah. And, and then, and then there was a falling out or whatever, and just, it didn't, you know, they stopped and now it's officially not cannon. And so I could see that that's that's that leaves some, some bad, bad mojo.

Trey

Yeah. Well, I think that's going to do it for this episode, friend, Daniel. I just want to say thank you so much for joining us. It has been an

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

absolute blast. It's a pleasure to be here anytime. This is a fun way. I've this is my first Dematic episode. I really like your approach here. So I'm very, very happy to be here to talk about this and to kind of look back on these three shows and think about what. Well, we did. I hope we haven't, it's not like I'm recency bias you know with low-key, but I do think I do.

I feel, I feel good about it would be interesting to return to this and like a year and, and think about, you know, where we are, but,

Jude

well, Moonlight, cause that'll be, I guess the one where do they really learn? You know, do they truly learn from these shows? Yeah.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. So that'll be the first real

Trey

test of of the Disney

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

plus shows.

Jude

Although I have a feeling we might be able to find a way to get you on before a year from now and midnight. I hope so.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

We'll see.

Trey

That'll be a lot of catching up

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

on everything in the MCU if we wait that long, but we'll see. We'll see if, if, if something happens. Yeah.

Trey

If you want to keep up with more of the musings of friend Daniel, you can always find them in our discord that if you want to comment or have any questions about this episode, you can always reach us at MC you need to know on Twitter and Instagram, or if you'd like to join the discord, as we were just talking about, you can find a link. In the show notes as well.

Jude

Once you get to the discord, make sure you go to the role, assign click on the emoji. It will give you access to all our spoiler channels on your podcast, catcher of choice. Make sure you follow us, leave a rating and review. It was a huge help for us in the feedback and the best thing you can do for us to share with a friend. Yeah.

Trey

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is his rendition of the Avengers theme. You play more of his work on his SoundCloud, which is linked in the show notes as well. All right, that's going to do it. Thank you so much for listening and June Daniel. Thank you so much for doing this.

Jude

Thank you tray. Thank you,

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Daniel. Thank

Trey

you. We'll see you all

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

next week. Hey, Trey. Yeah. Is there a outline? Yes. I emailed

Trey

it to you.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Is it in the email?

Trey

Let me see. I thought I emailed

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

it to you. Is it in, is it in the invite? It was, I

Trey

sent it the same. Excuse me. I sent it the same night that I did the remotely, but let me double

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

check. Maybe I got into junk on

Trey

that. Hurts my feelings. No no that was on me. I'm sorry. I did not send it. I knew you had one. All right. I just sent it now. It's pretty, it's pretty standard at, since it's, since we're all just bringing our own lessons, I figured we could just kind of do like a round table sharing thing. I sent you the wrong one.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Can you send me the template?

Jude

Well, they're all named template. He hasn't

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

started Nate renaming. Oh, you're one of those

Trey

dude. Jared has been very great, but he also understands that I'm a monster when it comes to yeah. Covered

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

in icons. We're not going to go that

Trey

far.

Friend DanielFriend Daniel

Yeah. Okay. A lot of judgment here. It's

Jude

fun. My desktop is covered in icons. I've gotten better though, especially for the pod about better naming conventions.

Trey

Okay. Now you should have the template out.

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