Hello and welcome back to a bonus episode of MCU need to know a podcast dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe and everything that you need to know. I'm
I'm Jude, how are you doing Trey?
I am really excited because we are here to talk about Shang-Chi and the legend of the 10 rings.
Yes. Super excited for this. I think I even mentioned this. On yesterday's release, right? Like, like I don't, I didn't know enough about Shang-Chi that this was something that I feel like I was going in just super clean slate, you know? And I didn't do a lot of research on it either for that reason. Um, and so this was really fun to watch.
Yeah. It's, it's not often, and not only for me with the lack of comic book knowledge, but just at the point in which we are in the MCU where everything is a sequel now, it's not often you get an origin story like this, or in another character to the tapestry of the MCU. So it's just exciting.
Yeah. Yeah. It was super fun and super exciting, you know, to go to see this. Yeah.
Well, it's clear that if you downloaded this episode, it, you know, we're going to be talking about Shang-Chi and the legend of the 10 rings. Uh, the way we're going to handle this is we do have some pre spoiler thoughts here. So if you have not seen the movie yet, but you just kind of wanted to taste of what it's like this section is for you. Uh, by the time we get to the end of it, you'll hear an audio cue, which will take us to the spoilers.
So before we get there, Jude, what are your pre spoiler thoughts for Shang-Chi
I have a couple of things. Uh, first the soundtrack was great. Yes. I've been listening to it since. Um, I brought my oldest with me to see it. Um, I didn't, I didn't see by myself, but I do want to mention, like I brought my oldest with me. Uh, the didn't want to go at first, but I was like, you're you need to go, you gotta go see this. I mean, loves to watch anime, you know, and, and very much like once to learn Mandarin, you know, just really fascinated with Asian culture.
And like, you gotta see this movie, you don't get to stay home. Um, so she begrudgingly went and then she's afterward. It was just like, Thank you so much for making sure that, you know, uh, so that was, that was a fun experience to take it, to see that, uh, together. Um, and then the other one was just, uh, is this we're still pre-spoiler thoughts? Um, right. So let me just put it this way. Uh, it was what I was expecting.
It didn't disappoint, but when it came to cinematography and choreography, Yes, and I'll leave it there. Okay. And you initial thoughts go,
I have done my best to separate recency bias and the general feeling of hype coming out of the movie. But I have stood to this. What I texted you after watching it. I said, this is a top five MCU movie after thinking about it. This is in my top three it's in game, winter, soldier and Shang-Chi and the legend of the 10 rings. Absolutely love this movie. So what did, what did it bum?
It bumped Spider-Man I think, dude, yeah, I'll have to go back and check because I think we did, we did our top five in the very first pilot episode. I couldn't remember if it was Spider-Man, but I think that's the one that got bumped
down. Okay. Wait a minute. What were your top three again in game
winter soldier and Shang-Chi and the legend of the 10 rings then iron man three. And Dr. Strange. Yeah, of course you would
bump Spidey over Cap. Okay. What
I mean is that.
No, it's not a surprise. It's.
I love Spiderman, but that's just speaks to how great this was and to, to kind of, uh, sum up my spoiler thoughts. I think the thing that was outstanding is that this movie marries the action and the story flawlessly. So often when we're talking about shows. Uh, specifically the movies, but sometimes the Disney plus shows we enjoy action scenes, where there is a narrative meaning for the action and not just like a spectacle.
This had everything we talk about about clear communicated goals, a thrilling ramp-up of those difficulties as those goals change because you know, the fights evolve and it's, it's just really satisfying to watch. And in hand with that because the movie feels so meticulously plotted each scene plays off the one before it and sets up the one next that the pacing, I didn't think about time at all in this movie. Like it was just one great pace movie from start to finish.
And if I can, and again, I might be biased in this. So like I already talked about how it's shot up to my top three. So this might, I don't know how much weight this holds, but I also wrote down this has put Shang-Chi in the realm of captain Rogers, Dr. Strange and Ironman for me like that. Like I need him in every movie now because I cannot wait to see him pop up.
How long it will take to get them in to get him into something
else. Fingers crossed not, not too long, but we'll see.
Well, because, cause I mean, you mentioned Dr. Strange, you know, Dr. Strange had his movie and then we didn't see him again until infinity war. Well,
unless you count Ragnarok, Ragnarok, but it isn't, it isn't
well, okay. So to give you an idea, Ragnarok because it slipped my mind. It wasn't that signifcant. In terms of screen time and what he did, you know,
it's what we want from a connected universe, but it's not what we want if you're a fan of Dr. Strange, does that make sense, right? Yeah.
Yeah. A hundred percent. And so that's, that's why I was like, you know, when are we going to get to see Shang-Chi again? Yeah.
So one more thing to wrap up my pre spoiled thoughts, and we can jump into the spoiler zone. Cause I feel like we're tiptoeing on the edge. There it's something I actually tweeted about. I think when the first trailer dropped where don't get me wrong, I enjoyed black widow. I've been enjoying my time with the Disney plus shows, but black widow was a prequel the Disney plus shows feel like a lateral.
Even if it is much needed, but a lateral step with the characters that we are getting to know closer, this feels like the first firm step forward. Um, and it's, it was exciting to see that this, this era of the MCU begin. Yeah.
Oh yeah. Yeah. And I think I told you that, um, prior to you seeing it. Was was a similar sentiment of just the excitement of seeing this. Like, it felt like seeing a Marvel movie for the first time, even though I'd seen black widow, um, just because it was new and that
step forward. Yeah. And, and just to hammer home the point that like, that's not in a pejorative sense to black widow, because much like the lateral step of the Disney plus shows it, it informs these characters in a way that makes them that much deeper. Yes, but this is goes hand in hand with getting to know characters and getting to see the universe move forward. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, cause you know, we're clearly in phase in the next phase. And so far everything we've gotten to the next phase is characters we already know. And, and building on that, we know that we're getting all these new characters, miss Marvel, She-Hulk uh, working on Moon Knight, you know, we're, we're getting all these new characters and this is the first Eternals. Um, You know the other Spidey's, uh, you know, uh, I think there's new characters anyways. Let's stay on topic. Uh, but
I think there are rumors,
but I mean, if they get brought in, are they new, even though they're familiar anyways, stay on topic, stay on target style. Yeah. Like this is the first new. Character. And that was that that's I think what helped it made it so much fun.
Yeah. Well, I think that's going to wrap up our pre spoiler thoughts. So let's go ahead and jump in to the spoiler zone. So like we said, you're going to hear an audio cue and on the other side, it'll be fair game for all spoilers in the MCU. We'll see you on the other side.
We're back on a dark desert highway. Cool. Wind in my hair. And up through the I'm going to spare everybody else.
I was enjoying it. Like we talked about this. I didn't expect you to go for so long. I almost got my lighter out and started going back and forth. Yes, which would be very dangerous being in a closet. Yes. Yeah,
absolutely. Pull out the tip jar, watch people walk by and not put anything in it.
And the podcasting world, the tip jar is following us on social media. So if you enjoy that performance @MCUNeedtoKnow need to know. Dude. I, I think the way we're going to do this since it's just us, the simplest question, did this movie meet your expectations?
Yes. Next question.
Um, all right. Thank you so much for listening. We'd like to thank Nick Sandy. Uh,
no, it, it did like, so what am I, what a movie that I truly enjoy. And this is where I stopped when you're talking about the choreography movie that I remember seeing in the theater that I truly enjoyed was the crouching tiger hidden dragon and the wire work they did. And just how fluid it was in the choreography, you know, just the intentional movements, but it felt like a dance and getting to watch this choreography and just seeing how much it was fighting, but it was dancing.
I just, I just loved, you know, even, you know, It was like, not, you know, not at the beginning where Mandarin I'm just gonna use Mandarin right now met his future wife. And that was clearly like a courtship in the fighting, um, which was fantastic. But even in this, like the bigger battles, it just felt like a, like a dance and I just loved it, you know? And, and that.
You know, I guess what I was expecting from the choreography expecting to see that, uh, which we hadn't seen in the MCU before.
Yeah. You know, we have a group text where you with Tara and I had mentioned that this isn't an original idea, but I've seen this sentiment expressed so often.
That w in musicals, whenever the emotions get so overwhelming, the characters just break out into song because that's the only way for them to express that this takes that feeling, but with fighting and it's so appropriate that you mentioned the fights feeling like dance sequence, because there is such a huge spectrum of the way this movie handles combat. There is your traditional like, okay, this, this is your goal between protagonists and antagonists, they're fighting.
But there is that beginning sequence where, when we is meeting with the woman that he falls in love with where it is fighting, but it evolves into more of that dance feeling. So yeah, I think you're a hundred percent spot on with that. Yeah.
And when Shang-Chi at the end fought with his dad and they had the callback to it, you know, and, and I think that kind of. Is what sparked our helped, you know, she show his dad that like, no, mom's not gone. Mom is with us, you know, through us. Uh, and, and I really enjoyed, you know, the ancestor of iteration and, and how much yeah. Of that part of the culture was, was a part of the story.
And, and you can see that like in that dance, in that moment, There, uh, it was, it was just, it was wonderful.
Yeah. You know, we're speaking about the action and the choreography of this film, circling back to one of the things that I was talking about in the pre spoiler thoughts with the clearly communicated goals of action sequences. The thing that I think that was so. Is it again, it's an, on-ramping where we start off, which it's funny to call the bus fight as a starting point because it already out the gate is incredible, but that's our beginning point to the till we get to the end.
And the thing they did, I think brilliantly is the task is the pendant. We learn about that in the beginning, sequences we've realized how much it means to and then that's the simple goal, which is paired against like, Hey, don't die. It works well. And specifically the one that I think was the strongest for me is whenever they were leaving the fighting arena from sister and they were scaling down the side of the building.
Again, the same goal is the pendant, but pair that with them, trying to safely navigate this, the dangers of being on the side of the building, and eventually having Katie hanging off the side that small, easily communicated. Heightens the danger of Katie almost being in peril. And I dunno, like throughout each sequence, I was just completely blown away about how clear everything was.
I'm glad you brought that up. Cause I, I, so for me very quickly, it's like, okay, there's. Right and, and watching it. And that's just the way I, I think w as I watched these, these movies, um, but I liked their use of it. Uh it's. Hmm. How to explain this. So for those who don't know, a MacGuffin is usually an object. Sometimes it's a person, uh, Hitchcock was really into this, but it's the object that the audience really doesn't know a lot about.
And they don't really tell you a lot about it, but it's what drives you. The story, we got to get this or that, uh, George Lucas, you know, the MacGuffin was the droids and, and star wars and the death star plans for him. He thought you had to care about the MacGuffin. They get the audience in.
And that was something that really stood out to me with these, these people is it was like it was an object, but it was definitely something that, because it was attached to their mom that they cared about and it helped me care about it. Yeah. You know, and then to see that there was matching pendants that brought them together. It helps of, of finding, you know, their ancestors. I, I really enjoyed the use of it.
Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's, it's simple, effective storytelling because you know, those pendants to any, like you said, it doesn't mean anything to the audience, but because we got that build up to Shang cheese mom, giving it to him and telling him what it means and, and the, you know, we will always be with you. It, it heightens the emotional feeling of those. So, again, this is, I'm trying to be careful because I know I love this movie so much that I'm just clearly going to be gushing.
And I want to, at least, while we're talking about the action, say this, the fighting style of the rings itself may be my new favorite weapon in the MCU. Maybe even over the shield because the shield has a lot of meaning, which that's something I don't think can be touched, but as far as just pure mechanics of the weapon, those rings. God, so many miles out of them and it was just incredibly inventive. It was brutal.
And it had the ability to like alternate between like flight and just pure force. And it was, it was a surprise to me. I didn't know how much they were going to get out of those rings as a weapon. And I was just continuously blown away. Oh, I
fully expect to see you wearing rings. Next time I, X time we see each other,
I passed target and I saw them in the toy section and I thought about it. I didn't, but I thought about it. I was picking up a Shang-Chi Funko pop instead. Uh, but yeah, I really, I really, really enjoyed, um, that addition to just the arsenal of the MCU
sorry, I just, I just went to Amazon real quick and just typed in Shang-Chi just to see what toys there were.
This is why we're doing a podcast together. I was expecting a joke or like a little poking fun. You immediately went to go buy something.
I know what Trey is going to be for Halloween this year. So thinking about the rings, what I really loved was the CGI. I mean, it's Marvel. The CGI is going to be good, but you know, you have the great protector, the flying dragon and the soul sucking monster that they had to fight. Um, I can hear it. Now, some of the complaints that you typically get from Marvel movie, You know, oh, it's the faceless army that you're fighting kind of thing.
Um, I don't really ha I didn't really have that problem, you know, so, and mainly because, you know, Dr. Strange and guardians of the galaxy opened up kind of that door to this mystical and it, and we started venturing down that and exploring that, um, you know, differences, guardians of galaxy was out in space, right? Dr. Strange was on. Earth and they kind of tease that, but this, I felt like they just kicked it open with the dragon and everything, everything else.
And like, it's a place on earth you can get to, that's just this mystical. Um, and I really, really love that they, that, that that's being embraced. And I hope that that in a sequel you know, or somewhere that th this goes is even further.
Yeah. Because the world we're introduced to is just breathtaking, like all of the, the very familiar, but no, Of earth creatures. We were seeing with the lions and the horse and the horrifying faceless winged rat that, uh, Trevor Slattery had, like, it's such an interesting world that I just want to see more. It was cute.
What do you call it? It's
cute. It was man. This is a very unpopular week for me. I was complaining about not feeling anything at the Dr. Strange movie. And now I think that thing is not cute. It's it's
uh, it's a dog. Who's not gonna like steal my sandwich. That.
Oh, so that's why you enjoy it. So
it doesn't have a mouth to steal my sandwich. This is amazing.
Is that not horrifying to you? Can you imagine, like not
having, not having to worry about. Sandwich being stolen. We
clearly come from two different worlds
full of sandwiches. I was telling my wife about that. That's never going to happen. She goes, I take your sandwiches. Oh,
well, I guess it's tied to invest in a new favorite snack.
The thing is, is I'm really good at making sandwiches.
That's why he keeps taking them. You got to make crappy ones. Oh, really, you know, I want to circle back to what you were saying about the, the faceless villains and maybe some of the complaints of the, the, the set pieces. I think one of the common criticisms the MCU gets is like, Even on movies where people are like, oh yeah, I did like that. But by the time they got to the end, it's like, it's your typical MCU CGI Fest.
The thing that I think works so well for this movie is that yes, it does have your huge MCU spectacle, CGI sequences, but it's again, marrying the narrative to what's happening. The moment I'm thinking of in particular is whenever Shang Chi and Xialing are on the dragon and she has fallen off and Shang-Chi she is like holding onto her with the rings. And it's this moment that builds to like, Hey, you have to let me go. So you can do this. We get that story close. I'm not leaving you again.
And he holds onto her. Meanwhile, we have Katie who's whole story arc about finding who you are and finding something to Excel in has that sequence, a winning shot, where she shoots through the dragon with the arrow. And so everything is just this buildup to satisfying narrative conclusions that it's not just a CGI Fest. It is married to what the point of the movie is. Yeah, very well put, I love this movie.
We wait on months for it to hit.
Oh, I, because if this was on Disney, plus, as soon as I, as soon as I got home from the theater, I would have had it up again. That's how much I was just like smitten by it. Yeah. So, you know, one thing I did want to bring up because we have gone to bat for iron man. Time and time again. And I even tweeted out on my personal Twitter account in my new top five ranking. And I had somebody respond to is like, I'm so excited. I'm going to see it.
Although I'm having trouble understanding what your list is because I see Ironman three up there among other great movies
and so misunderstood. I'm in
Iceland. So I feel like I need to speak to a little bit of the Trevor Slattery aspect of this. You know, there were, there was a part of me where I was expecting like, Hey, he's probably going to be mentioned. At some point they put the all hail to the king, one shot on Disney. Plus you don't do. It's like whenever a TV show does the previously on. And it shows like important scenes. It's signaling that something's coming.
So I expected whenever he appeared on screen, it was going to be a one-off nod to iron man three and move forward. Somehow it worked with Trevor Slattery being a companion, because not only did he add that levity, but there's something about the self-awareness that this character has, that feels like. A nice return to iron man three.
So if you've listened to our podcast review, we talked about one of the successful things that that movie does is that it uses quote unquote terrorist iconography to show the obsession that America has with terrorism and how easily it is for them to be controlled that way. And even though it does that in a satisfying way, I think there is still some onus on the movie to understand why that's wrong.
Having Trevor Slattery returned with his self-awareness of being like, yeah, it was a bit tasteless. What I did, I did bring the country to its knees and all that. Is a vocal embodiment of that and realization. So that felt like more than just a one-off joke, but a nice reflective closure of that story. Yeah.
Yeah. And that was a big question going in, like how do you do the Mandarin when you've already done the Mandarin before? And I think they did it really well. Um, and I'm glad that they did all hell. They can't like, I don't w I didn't want them to ever walk back what they did or. Iron man three, you know?
Cause I, I thought it was great, but I'm glad that they did all hell the king cause, cause it opened up that door, you know, for later, um, which again, they walked right through it and did it fabulous with it.
Yeah. Well, and that was the thing like, cause whenever we did our one-shot episode, I remember saying like, I don't know how you call back to this without it being. Awkward. And I think they did well. And one of the ways they kind of do this is Wenwu, we're, whenever they're at the dinner table where Katie Xialing and Shang- Chi are at the dinner table. When we was explicitly states, there was an American actor, who, you know, used my name. He terrorized the country with a fruit and it's.
So he was like making fun of it right then and there. And. It, it did show the silliness of it. And I think even specifically mentions the appropriation of it. So, yeah, it's just nice to get that realization like, Hey, that was not right. So I'm glad they had that growth. You know, speaking of Wenwu this is my last quick thought. I think he is a top tier Marvel villain. So often when we're discussing the villains in the MCU.
We talk about having a character that is in the wrong, but we understand where they're coming from. We may even relate to it, but it is on this path of watching them fail. So it's hard to say a character who. Use the 10 rings to conquer for a thousand years, but there is some nugget of relate-ability to that redemption that he gets at the end, whenever he kind of nods to his son as he's passed on the rings before, you know, passing away.
And so he, for me, Like, I think Tony Leung gives a performance that is the emotional through line of this film. And so much of it is working in tandem because the entire cast, the chemistry, the action, the writing is wonderful, but the emotional core of this film is from Tony Leung and I think that's what allows this movie to. Yeah. One of the
things like take Thanos and infinity war, um, and he was such a good villain because we got to see him, we got to see the inner workings of his mind, you know, why is he doing what he's doing? Um, it wasn't like this power grab, you know, and here in Shang-Chi like, they, he, the villain learned that. You know, having all this power, wasn't fulfilling having this family and this relationship is what was fulfilling and he laid down his power.
And, and the drive to get that back after losing it and feeling guilty of, you know, the family is like, whose fault was it? You didn't, you watched, you know, and didn't step in, uh, you weren't here, you know, and, and, and wrestling with the loss of a family member and the grief and how it tears a family apart, um, like that I think helped make it a compelling villain that we're not just watching somebody who's just. You know, I'm going to take over the world, you know?
Uh, and I think that's, I think that is what makes such a good villain.
God, I can't wait to watch this again. There's, there's so much to grasp at it that I just, I can't get it all in the one view. And I've gotten at this point in the recording, but whenever it comes to Disney plus. I'm going to be pouring over this movie from start to finish. Well, that's going to leave us with just the post credit scenes to tackle, which we do have to in this movie.
Uh, the first one is where Wong is explaining to and Katie about the beacon that is found within the rings themselves and the camera pans. And we realize that it's not just Wong, who is examining the rings, but we have. Bruce banner who is not smart Hulk and Carol Danvers who are being projected in through holograms. Uh, so starting with this one, you got any thoughts here, dude?
I was really surprised to see banner and Carol Danvers me. I was expecting to see strange since we had walls. Yeah. And so that really surprised me
and I, I, I think they're even leaning into it too because Bruce Banner's the first one to speak. So I think the movie's playing into your expectation of hearing another male voice, but when it's not Dr. Strange, who has a very distinct voice from Benedict Cumberbatch, it's a positive. Wait, hold on. And then it kicks in as a camera reveals. And it's just a wonderful surprise to see, not just banner, but Carol Danvers. Well, yeah.
Yeah. Well, and we know they're both coming, right? Like Banner's gonna show up and She-Hulk um, Carol Danvers, you know, we have the marvels. I don't know if she's showing up in miss Marvel. It wouldn't surprise me if they got Brie Larson for a cameo on that, or even Monica Rambo on that, but you know, her is coming so, but, so who's Dr. Strange. So yeah, it was, I liked it. I'm glad they went
that way. And I like what it means for the Avengers overall, because Wong was already explaining to him like the trajectory of your life has now changed. Go home and get some rest and be ready because something's coming. And not only does that.
Or, sorry, good. Or what that well, that's
which that reminds me, this should have been. Another one of the common criticisms that this is quick. One of the other common criticisms that MCU gets is that it doesn't allow serious moments to breathe and interjects comedy. This episode, this episode, this movie, I think balanced that so wonderful. And compared to all the other MCU movies, because it did have it serious moments, but it also had moments like.
Or, or whenever Shang-Chi was giving like a detailed history of his past and the flight attendant interrupts them with their meal options.
Yeah. That was the one time where I was like, okay, this is definitely Marvel
I felt it, but it worked.
Yeah. The one with the flight attendant. That was definitely like, okay.
And that might be just me being smitten about this movie anyway, jumping back to it. I just like what it means overall, because I've never considered strange part of the Avengers. He felt like somebody that was working with them, but at the end of the day, he would return to the sanctum sanctorum and do what he needed to do as a sorcerer right. The fact that Wong is there speaking to Bruce banner and Carol Danvers makes me feel like it's, it's just as connected as it was an in game.
And that we're seeing the continuation of it, because one of the things that I talked about with where does smart Hulk go for me? I really would have liked to have seen him take over for Natasha as being the one to lead the Avengers, because he's only, he's one of the few remaining left of the original writers. So I'm getting that feeling and that's nice. And then, and Carol Danvers, seeing that she's staying in touch as well. I'm excited for the future.
I'm really curious of what they're going to do with the tin rings next.
So there's a throwaway line where Shang-Chi mentions that his sister is going to shut down the 10 rings and that second post credit scene we get is a realization. She has not shut down. The 10 rings. She has taken over and done a lot of wonderful renovations, but ultimately has taken over. Yes.
I don't want to see her become the bad person villain, but yeah. But whatever, I'll take it. I let's get more of those characters. Like it was a great and I'd love it, but it was just kinda like, oh, okay. That's not, that's not what I was expecting.
Yeah, I, it was, it wasn't what I was expecting either, because it felt like you got that family closure and things would be back to better. But yeah, it's, it's hard to, to see how she'll take the 10 rings, positive direction, given the status of that name throughout history. But yeah, that's going to do it for our quick reactions to and the legend of the 10 rinks. Did you see the movie?
We want to know what you thought, which you can reach us @MCUNeedtoKnow on Twitter and Instagram, uh, to give us your impressions of the film.
Of course you can also join our discord. The link will be in the show notes. Uh, you'll get to interact with us. A number of other guests that's been on the pod and the community that loves the MCU just as much as you do. And then of course the best thing you can do for us to share with us.
Yeah. We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is his rendition of the Avengers theme. You find more of his work on a SoundCloud, which is linked in the show notes. That's going to do it. Thank you so much for listening and Jude. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you Trey. We'll see you all next week. Welcome
to California. Okay. Uh, I wasn't sure. Okay. So you wanna start that over with, are we doing that now? Yeah, let's just do a countdown real quick. Okay. Where are we starting? I think with that, welcome to the hotel. Okay. Okay. 1, 2, 3. Welcome. Welcome. Let's try this one more time.
I think we found our bonus social
media. Cut. Yeah, 1, 2, 3, and start. Okay. 1, 2, 3, welcome three start. I started
with you. Is there a delay? There might be a delay. Are we, are we finding out this is not going to be possible?
Okay. Let's try this one more time. Okay. No. We're good. Let's try one more time. Okay. 1, 2, 3. Welcome to the such a lovely place, a lovely place, such a lovely face. Plenty of room at anytime of you
anytime. Or
you can find it here. I think that's enough.
Yeah. We're not, we're not using this Roe.
You can promise me you're separate. We're separate tracks. You could probably line us up.
I have a very. I want to use the whole thing. I'll figure it out in the editing, but that's so, that's so funny. All right. Maybe I should, maybe I should hit up Nick, Sandy, like, Hey, can you cover California? That's so funny. And if this makes the cut, I would never do that to you, Sandy. Bye. All right.