Moon Knight Review S1E4: It's A-Maze-Ing + Special Guest Leecho!

Hello and welcome back to another episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and everything you need to know. I'm Trey!

And I'm Jude. How you doing, Trey?

Well, Jude, I'm excited because today we get to welcome back a creator capable of 3d printing reality into whatever she wants, whether she's willing the infinity gauntlet, lightsaber combo as a flex or streaming the crafting process on Twitch. We're delighted to welcome leech back to the podcast. Welcome back, leech. Welcome. Thanks for having me. How's

it going? It's going well. I'm just like floored every time your intro is so thoroughly like researched. It's ridiculous. Oh my

gosh. Well, thank you. It has been entirely too long since you have been on this podcast. It hasn't been since what if, and I think one of the most exciting things that has happened is you have found your way back to streaming your 3d prints on Twitch. I was wondering if you could let the listeners know how that's been going and what they can expect when they turn into a LICO stream.

Sure. So January 1st I decided I was going to come back to the streaming space and to see. If I can do it again, thing, you know, with all the life changes and such, and it's been happening every Sunday and it's been great. I gave myself way too hard of a first project to complete. And I think I have upped my standards over time. So I'm on month four now of creating the gauntlet. And I have now gotten myself. I've been a boxy resin kit sitting right next to me. Like it's getting intense.

experience. That's really cool. That's really cool. So when it's done, is it, I don't know. I haven't seen it. Is it movable? Like you're going to snap with, so, yeah,

so it's completely movable. It's going to be mounted to a glove and I'm going to have the electrical in it as well. When I make the stones, I'm going to actually embed them with LEDs. And so then it'll be fully controlled as well. And I don't know if I would go as far as like you do a snap and they do things, but, you know, I don't know quite yet, but maybe I will know. Cause I just thought of that and I might take a note of that, but, uh, Yeah, it's going to be completely wearable.

It's truly fantasize. It is.

It really is. Yeah.

Yeah. I think you've shared a photo on Twitter of how big it was by wearing it without the fingers. And you have made the point that it would have been a way bigger power move for Thanos to use a fingerless gauntlet. I'll make sure to link that into the show notes so people can see just how powerful that truly is. It really

was. I was kind of like I was shook. It was great. I never would have ever imagined it unless I had it in my hands with no fingers. It was. How's it straight for

sure. Yeah. That's great. So pre-order for all your Congress caused blatant.

I mean, this actually was a lot harder with a smaller printer, but we're getting a larger printer. I think it was quarter three of this year and it's going to pretty much, I like to say, like it can print a storm trooper. Helmet and like, you know, the click of a button compared to, oh, I have to piece it and to like, you know, cut it, slice it up into six different items and then glue it all together. It's like, it's going to kind of be one and done sand and paint kind of situation.

So I didn't ask you the first time, the first time we met, I remember asking you about this and I don't remember where you were at with it, the dark Sabre.

So. Models I've been working on for the sabers are like, you know, the ones when you're a kid and you can like switch it. And it all like unfolds instantly. And the models for that are so thin. They're so thin for the saber part, because it all needs to print in one piece and is nested. So my saber actually broken three different places. I still have the, the hill, but the rest of the blade itself broke.

Oh yeah. So, well, the thing is, is when you put it back together, you're going to be like crossing IPS and it's going to be like Aragorn sword, right?

Pretty much. Yeah. I ultimately, like, I think I've said this before. Like my goal is to have just, I want walls of. W pop culture, helmets and weapons, and just everything just on my walls everywhere. I think I've compared it to like hat, walls, fitting or shoe walls that people have in their homes. I just that's. That's the dream. That's the dream right there.

That's awesome.

Yeah. Well, if you want to keep up with Leach's work and see the progress, make sure you're following them as XO lead show on Twitter, as well as twitch.tv/xo lead show. And of course we'll link to all of those in the show notes. Now, before we get into the meat of the episode, I just wanted to quickly say, dude, thank you so much for driving the episode last week. I'm sure people by now know I did unfortunately have to miss kind of drop that on you last minute.

no, no, no. TJ is TJ to his joint to have TJ. Um, he missed you, but you know, I mean, he even said how, how much more relaxed he was this time? It was just like, dude, he was great. It was just like having a conversation versus the first time he's like, I felt like I was writing a book, um, being on the pod. Uh, but yeah. So no, it was, it was a lot of fun. You know, he didn't take any offense to you dropping out on him last minute, but we, we, we drove that truck in pretty well. So yeah,

I would say so well. Yeah, of course. If you downloaded this episode, you know, we're going to be talking about season one, episode four of moon night and titled the tomb. So we're going to do this is we have some pre spoiler thoughts where we can talk about the episode without getting too much into the spoilers before jumping into the spoiler zone. So before we get there, leech, what are your pre spoiler thoughts for this episode?

This episode made me hungry for more, in a way that I haven't felt since. I mean really one division. Yeah. I mean, I think you've said something similar Trey. I just realized that I think you might even tweak it that a few episodes ago, but that's actually what I wrote down here in my notes. I am so hungry for all of this just colorful lore and I'm just would eat it all up. It's great.

Yeah. I, I think that's 100% what I was feeling at the end of this tier. And like, I even had to do the leach, a litmus test of like, this is how I want to talk about this. Is this a spoiler or not? Because this may be a short section. I don't know if it's possible to talk about this episode without spoiling it. It's just so bizarre. And the one division comparison I think fits very absolutely

it really does. Um, and I think to tread lightly, but what do you thinks? A, I am very much the champion. If you've listened to us regularly, you know, I'm very much championing eight episodes. This one very much. This has to be eight. We have to feel like there's so much left. That needs to be answered. But, but I think Lisa is right in the sense of, he just wanted more. You know, and, uh, cause it's, it's something that I'm really, really enjoying.

You are a madman to want to make people wait that long. I can't imagine that like you're right. And that would be that much of a, like from season to season cliffhanger, that would be excruciating.

What do you think? This is like the early two thousands, like, come on. We don't wait for anything

anymore. Tonally at guidance fits fits in with the money stuff.

Oh my gosh. Yes. So it's a game of Thrones. Tried it and they didn't pull it off. Well, how dare you cliffhanger?

How dare you? Well,

I would participate in that at all.

Only the last season, unfortunately, where I decided to podcast. Well, I think that's going to do it for the priest boiler thoughts. Like I said, it's kind of hard to talk about this one without getting into the spoilers. So like I said, we're going to jump into the spoiler zone where it will be fair game for all spoilers in the NCU. We'll see you on the other side and we're back. So, dude, I'm going to take a page out of your playbook from last week.

I don't know. My notes are not in order. So I'm trying to figure out the best place to start we're expense explaining the past currently

pretty much. Yeah, just kind of like Layla's Layla's section within this, uh, this is where we get a lot of the implied supernatural violence is that solely gets uncovered with the gruesome dissecting scene. I don't know how else to describe it. Uh, and we see a lot of Layla's, uh, navigation ability as she's making her way through the tombs. As she's running away from the, I'm going to say mercenaries that were trying to take her and mark out. Um, it's a very Laila centric episode.

I feel like I held my breath, the entire sequence. And when she screamed from adrenaline, that's kind of where I was at too, because it was non-stop. There was the tiny little respite for gathering supplies, but it was nonstop near misses in a, not in a, I almost got hit way, but in a, I almost got completely squished and obliterated from this truck. And the guy on the back with his gun, you know, like so many, uh, near misses. And it was, it was just so tense.

Oh, yeah. Like I, I was expecting it and through that sequence and like I had mentally got, was like, oh, this is Layla's episode. This is, you know, I expected mark slash Steven to be out the overwhelming majority of it. I was surprised when he came out of it. Uh, when he did,

you know, and as you were describing that, the catharsis of Layla screaming and that moment after she, his like very tightly hugging that wall, trying to make it across the gap. That's where I thought you were talking about, but you really put into perspective how she's basically under fire almost literally from the start to that moment. Uh, yeah, she, she went through a lot and you know, I talked a lot about implied violence in the first and second episode.

me wonder if it was timed with the parental controls, because that's kind of how spooked I was and I was not ready for that. Uh, you know, there is violence and Falcon, and that was a lot, but this was, this was more and it felt very different. And I know this story is completely different, but it was a lot, but it was completely contextual. So,

well, I think we got to see at this time and, and, and main red. Right. And I guess, but what I mean by that is the first time, the first couple of episodes where it was implied. There was a, if you think of like, for the point of view, if it was Stephens and Mark's doing the violence, so we don't get to see it because. Seeing it through Steven. And then the second episode, we only get to see what mark sees because it's Steve and the one jumping in.

Yeah, it does. It's more dangerous now. It's yeah, I very much felt that for sure. In this episode,

you know, and as much as the danger is ratcheting up, this isn't the first time that we've seen supernatural antagonists. Cause we have the Jackal and episode two, this time we had a different type of enemy, is it? I wanted to throw this out there. Is that, is it fair to say this might be one of the grossest episodes or at least moments we've seen in the MCU because we didn't get full on shots of, I believe it's the hecka priest that was.

I had a thought about that too, as it was happening, when you're that afraid, you're trying to listen to see what your next move should be. So you're like hyper aware of it happening because of the danger. And I feel like they crank the volume up and it was incredibly unnerving listening to those moist

places. Well, I was, I was going to say, not even that before you got that, you had Steven's description of, oh, this is blood. And what do you call it? Human bits.

Gore lake. I think I wrote it down, uh, chunky chunks of meaty bits. Yeah.

I am not laughing at chunks. Immediate pits.

I'm sure the dog has a name. So sorry.

What's your dog's name? Briefly. Okay. Let's close aliens. Close Ellen Ripley. Is that what a Trump, Eleanor flee? No,

it's because he ripped one as soon as we got him.

Nice. Okay. Just for clarity, all of this is staying in. I hope, you know, if that's okay with your permission?

Well, I had asked what the dog's name is, cause you held up the dog and just showed us the top. Right. But like, so I started laughing just as Trey gave what Stephen's line was about the meaty chunky beds. Right. And like, without the video that it just sounds like I started laughing at the meaty bits of people.

Dude, you're brave, you weren't afraid of this episode. So to get us back on track, we were discussing the gruesomeness of this episode. Uh, and you were detailing the way Steven described the scene as we kind of walked in.

Right. Well, and all I was gonna say about that with him, detailing that out, you has happened already. And so you see with Steven's subscriptions, you see in here, the aftermath of it, and then again, it's that implied you're with them hiding and just hearing the sound and you already visually kind of know the results of that, of what's going on. And so you don't really need to see.

you know, at leech, I think to borrow the way you used it, the heightened sense of awareness. I think one of the brilliant things this episode does is intentional or not. It feels like it is invoking the last of us video game, which if people aren't familiar, it is a post-apocalyptic game that are zombies, not zombies. They have things called the clickers. The sound that this hiccup makes in the episode is almost 100% the same sound.

anyone who's played that game and saw the episode had like a mere cat moment of like, oh, what's that? I recognize that. How do I talk? How do

I dock? Yes. You know, one thing I want to add, they've done this multiple times. I can't remember exactly where it was last week, but they've always given us a point of view perspective. And then we think it's just a static shot, but it moves. So it implies that the camera is another, let's just say character in the scene we saw in episode one, when there was somebody who was on the balcony of the museum, looking at Stephen episode two, I believe we see I'm sorry. Episode three. We see it.

And the thing is, is they ratchet it up. You have all of that. And then the fact that they get separated, um, and you trying to stick with Layla here, but like you see what she's going through. You have in the back of your mind, not just that country's not available, but Stephen refusing to let mark get involved. And so. I dunno. I dunno. I just lost the, the wording there, but like, so that in terms of intensity, in terms of scariness of like, man, they, they really put it this way.

of it. Oh yeah. So within this section, I think one of the biggest things we have left to talk about is Layla meeting with HARO. And this is where we get that confirmation that mark from Hearos telling was involved in the death of Layla's father leech. How were you feeling throughout the entirety of that scene? As well as when Layla finally confronts mark?

I thought it was interesting that I also had this investment in this character that I just, just learned about the father. I think it's just cause I want to know as much as possible of Layla and how she fits in on all of this, because there's, you don't just like no more. Like you, weren't just his neighbor, like there's history, there there's something.

father. You know, I, I think you really hit the nail on the head about how you both were invested and disappointed. She turned around, she paused and you could see the pain on her face. And it made like if I didn't already have enough beef with heroin enough, my little scarab, the fact that he threw that at her as a, as a way to reel her back in. Oh yeah, come on, dude. I'm I'm so mad. So too

cheap. Oh my God. I like the audacity. Like I can't even like he, he was, you know, what that tells me too is like, he's playing dirty. So he's like playing extra dirty and trying to delay her any way possible. It's just that whole thing was, it's just felt really complicated. Like there's like weird history there that we have no, no way of knowing. So we have to just grasp on to every word in that conversation and that's all we

get. What's telling them. Is that when cause HARO sets it up as though he wants to let out this truth and Layla cuts him out at the passage, he goes, what are you telling me? Mark was there. It's telling that it's something that has crossed her mind before. Did you feel that same way too, too? Do you think this is an idea that she has held onto without confirmation? I don't

know the reason why I say that is because you had, in the other episode where they started to plant that seed of, of mark knows more about what happened to her dad and then he realizes, and so that's, that's why part of me wants to say, yeah, I want to kind of go down that road with you of like she's kind of suspect. Um, but it also, the way they set it up so far, it makes sense for her, you know? Cause you had the conversation.

And I mean, she does seem pretty, I don't want to say accepting, but she listened as mark was very adamant like that. Wasn't me, you know, that I didn't kill him. And then that's where she starts to say, okay, well you led the killer to him. It, to me, I think what stood out to me most within that entire father section of this episode is it's heavy enough that she had to deal with this realization, but the, to then learn, this is the basis of their relationship.

imagine the blend of like, you know, longing and repulsion at the same time. It's it was a lot. And I feel like the actor portrayed that. I, I got that from that scene. Just pure confusion and just love, hate.

I mean, what did HARO say? He's an agony. Like he synced it with the judgment.

Yeah. Well, and it's interesting too, the, the whole dynamics of the relationship, because it does get the sense of how do I want to put it when we first meet her and she's not, she doesn't know about Steven and she's like all our adventures together and, and, and it felt engaged the impression that, uh, the foundation or their relationship, wasn't very solid. In the first place, it was more about the adventures together and that shared experience, common goal.

I felt that when the statement was made that, oh, you know, what's con gone. It's just Steven. There's no more mark. And she says like, well, don't you think that you should have discussed that with me or not? She didn't say discuss. She said, like, told me. And I was just like, oh, here we go.

Yeah. But you're right. It, it, it was, it was a good way to put it because that could have been written differently.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Whenever that scene played out, like I immediately was thinking of the episode with yabba, where she talked about how Marcus taking that choice away from her and here it's her reclaiming like, Hey, I could have decided that for myself. You just didn't let me know. Um, so I do want to say a couple of things. We're getting to the point where we can move into the next section.

is, is this the point where I say I've never seen the mummy

wait. Okay. That is Jude. Okay. Just double-check that's usually traced

line. Being so afraid because my family wanted to go see it. And I was so afraid of the trailer that I didn't want to see it. And I ended up loving it. Like that was the first time I remember like a horror quote unquote movie. But now that I've seen, it's like, not, not as skewed as I've done it, number

the trailer. I remember it coming out, but there was something about it that I just didn't feel compelled to go see it. I loved it.

I think I vaguely remember watching that with your brother. I think he went with us. I'll

have to double check. That would be family. Daniel fam.

Oh man. So to bridge this gap, leech, you brought up how or no, I'm sorry. Jude. You brought up how you were wondering whether or not they should have even gotten married because it doesn't seem like there was a substantial part of a relationship there. I don't know how I feel about the forced love triangle that's going on with this episode. Is it, is it weird to anybody else or is that just. I'm fine if

they address it. And then they're like nip it in the bud, like next episode, because it's going to need to be addressed. Like there's two dudes involved now in the same body. Like there's no way you can get around it. I don't feel

at least. Yeah. I think what stood out to me is you both see, there's clearly a connection with Layla and mark and Steven, because she has that, it's like, oh, you smell like him. Or she's like smiling in the center frame whenever he's talking about the, the statue and he's geeking out about it. So she has this fondness for him. But at the same time, she had like that weird look on her face whenever he went in for the kiss.

kind of, it reminds me of like, when you, the whole thing of, you know, it feels different. If you do the thing out of kindness for me versus you're doing the thing. Cause I asked you to, and I feel like Steven is the, the mark in a way, doing things that. Yes versus like, that's just mark. It's like, so like the Steven is like this, like, oh, you're kind. And you're like, nice. And you talk to me and you're so much softer and it's like, but that's not actually mark.

Yeah. Well, it it's so, so like in, you know, you meet somebody and they're the most wonderful person in the world. Thank you. You're the most wonderful person in the world. And the next thing, you know, eventually they're not, oh, so

marriage. So you're talking about marriage in general. Okay.

It just, it just is. And you either relationship ends and you move on and nothing wrong with that, or the acceptance for the who, who they are and move on. And so like, and this is where I really felt for Layla. Cause it was like, this is physically the same person. Right. But there's always the messiness of our relationship. This is who they really are warts and all. And then there's the pedestal version slash fantasy. If that makes sense. The, like from the initial meet.

to, I couldn't even. Even you have someone that's, you know, oh, they choose the things I like, and they don't have your annoying habits, but it's like, let's just throw them in the same body. That's not confusing. Like, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and it reminds me of a movie that I love and the book is great as well, a high fidelity, you know, and one of his in the was that of like, yeah, all those other women, all those other people that I get interested in, it's just a fantasy and it's not fulfilling because there's no depth the person that I'm with. But here it's like, like you said, you're getting the personality traits that you would like wish for out of this person.

intimate way. Yeah. And you know, I've been trying to be careful because, you know, we've set up how this isn't an accurate portrayal of did, but at least within the context of the show, it feels like they have written Stephen to be the ideal version of the common interest. And so. I think, uh, I think it was you league. It was the fantasy. I think that that feels uncomfortable.

are rough, but like they make sense, but they're rough just cause there's.

No, I think you're right on these topics being difficult. And I think that's virtue of the episode, because like, we're talking about these sections and there's things that I want to bring up that I'm also holding back for the last main important topic

everything's meshed together. I think that's where it

becomes. Yeah. And it's, and it's, and it's, and so it's

like, yeah, I even texted you last night, dude. I was like, cause normally we try and do four most important topics, but trying to fit in a fourth one as interwoven as these stories are in this episode would have felt like it was, you know, spreading it too thin, knowing we've got a, uh, a hippo in the room that we need to address by the end of this. Yeah.

Well, and that was the thing is like in the end thing where it was like, so was that Layla's ideal, like other personality ideal. I wish mark had. I don't know anymore. Like, cause I mean, at this point we're talking about, and I think rightfully so as if that's what Layla's seeing and Steven, but when the episode ends. I have no idea.

I do want to start here though. You know, you and leach have kind of hinted at it with the feeling that Concho is gone. Uh, the big moment last week, being that he was in case in the statue, uh, I think you and TJ, Jude were questioning whether or not mark could access those powers. And we got that confirmation here. Uh, To me, I love how much they hammered home, his presence being gone.

Well, it's interesting. The, the. The will or the force, maybe you have Steven to like, I mean, Hey, for him, you get this element of adventure. Like, and I'm getting to do stuff that I've only imagined at the gift shop, but there's also an element where he's fighting for his existence. Like we, we made the deal, country's gone the edge. I had a problem with that part of the show, but, but we made a deal countries go. And so you're going to live up to your T your end of the deal, you know?

Yeah. You know, I love how you, you detailed the sense of adventure being the thing that drives Steven forward, because as lovingly as possible that I could put it. He's a dork and I love how excited he gets with just being in what he's dreamed of, of, of his entire time at the gift shop. But one of the things I think that stood out to me was that moment, right before they jump into it, uh, we see mark take control and sucker punch Steven leads.

big Hoke vibes, harsher. Oh my goodness. Very much. Ragnar rock vibes. Um, It was, it was coming, like he knew it was coming. He knew it was worth it.

He didn't, he didn't.

Yeah, exactly. He gambled and he lost. So

yeah, I, it was a great moment. It was funny. Oh yeah, it was, it was one of those moments that you talked about where this show does it well, of like pulling something funny, you know, that it breaks tension or

whatnot, you know, I'm glad you described it as alluding to the Hulk because this isn't the first time that that's been brought up on this podcast. Like that was one of the things I talked about in episode one, where they kind of show that fake out of like, oh no, Mark's in trouble. He's being attacked by the Jackal before he transforms, cut to the jackals now running away from their life. So there, there does seem to be some sort of hope influence here.

Well, there's an element where that's, what I was about to say is, is I don't feel like it broke the rules of the show only because I remember something that affected when they first switched and Steven was asking, is this what your life's always been like? And yeah, it's hard to get used to it. And then mark said something about. It'll take all your will to like show up or something like that.

can work. Yeah. It's, it's been slowly building, uh, throughout these

episodes now. What, what really bothered me and TJ said it about, and I think he's right. Steven being the moral compass of the group, it's felt out of character, especially a Stephen's like going to be honest, like, Hey Rebecca, you got to know this about mark, you know, and you have all that. But the idea of like, well, conscious, gone, and you said, you'd go away. You know, I conscious gone though. You know, it's not because like, you've accomplished your cache or whatever.

Was it Steven, can you, can you, for sure say it was Steven though. That's what I want to know. If it felt that are out of character for you, could you go back and see if he really thought it was Steven the whole time? I'm

talking about how I felt in my first read slash watch of, of how that went. Um, and talking about that second. As if I'm talking about that section, trying to ignore the last third of the show.

Oh no. I'm, I mean, I'm referencing last episode where we kind of had this like, wait that wasn't you. So I, we, you on, like, it did feel this whole thing was like weird Brendan Frazier vibes for Steven. Like it was, it was

a little different. The only reason why I would be convinced that it, Steven is, it just seems having not been introduced yet to that third character or potential third character that, you know, how, how are we want to put it? We would be implying that, that, that third identity knows Stephen's identity well enough to fake it. And the, the parameters of the deal and all of that.

let's re we'll re examine this. Once we get to the final, most important topic, you know, I'll go to bat for. Uh, it feels in line with the same Steven. I didn't get to talk about it last week, but it, it made me laugh so hard in that opening shot where Marcus chasing those people through each oats and then he blacks out and we come to, and we find out that Steven was trying to go to the airport and he was just immediately trying to leave the situation.

Wait, hold on. If I understand what you're saying, right. Basically it's what I think I heard you say is that Steven was trying to

be marked yes. More of that. Like, I don't want to say selfish, but it. It's clearly like, no, I'm going to, I'm going to take lead. I'm going to do this. This is for me kind of okay.

Okay. Well that makes sense. I mean, kind of what we're saying about the same body and different personality and skillsets, and it's like from Layla's point of view, it's like same body, but the desire, the interests that I would, that would really wish mark had. But then also the other way of like, Stephen was like, dude, I wish I could be able to like mark, you know?

Cool. Okay. I got worried. I was like, oh, did I get it whenever it comes to like trying to audibly detail the points of. Steven and mark and Layla, I start to get tripped on the words, but I'm glad that came across. So eventually we get to the point where Steven and mark find the tomb of Alexander.

Um, I was just thinking the whole time, like, you're going to step on one of those stepping stones and it's again, and then arrows, or, you know, stuff's going to shoot out from the walls. I think I've just watched too many indie Jones, but, uh, I was just, I was full on histologic motor. That whole thing. I was blind. I was so happy to watch that whole scene. Like, oh, it's this, you know, this text and stuff. I'm like, yeah, it is. Oh yeah. What? You read that part too. Oh yeah.

completely. All the, all the tropes were there. Oh yeah.

It was great. Like if he had like the costume on like that would've made it better. Like, you know, the full-on like explorers had the matching cammo body suit thing going on. I mean like, oh,

sorry. I say friend Daniel messaged me while he was watching it. And he's like, who can draw that? Who can freehand draw on the sand? That perfectly Stephen. Exactly.

Steve Steven care,

you know, but it is like that, that style that you mentioned, the Indiana Jones, those types of things. Is that it hit all the tropes. I mean,

walking in there I'd be like doing like the John Travolta, like looking around like, like I'd never be like, this is, this is actually no, there's no way, but I ate it up. It was amazing.

Well it's to me, it's so funny as infatuated as Steven is with Layla the first, maybe not the first moment, but among the first where it starting to be clear that Layla is also endearing to him. She thinks he's calling her beautiful, but it's the statue that he's calling gorgeous. I believe it is. And it's so funny to me that like he's in his element so much that the rest of the world fades away.

adorable, man.

He was like, this is, we go down this hallway. Right. And then we get chased by the giant Boulder. Is that, is that this hallway, like, I felt like that was coming up

next

well, and I love, he had the, uh, he's like, look, there's a lot of blood and bones that way. Why don't we try and find an alternate route out of this?

Yeah. I'm seeing some like health potions around here too. That means I was going to be a boss, the corridor.

I'm so glad you said that because whenever he pulls the statue out of the mummy, the music is timed. So perfectly, I swear to you, it sounds like the Zelda theme. Whenever you find a chest, go back and listen to it. It's that same time. Oh,

that's amazing. So there's a, and I'll have to send it to both of y'all and. Th there's a meme, I guess, that, that I found where it's like shows this sidewalk or know that it's, uh, it's on the sidewalk, but it has like this brick retaining wall. And there's a portion of it. That's a different style of brick for like about the size of it.

So

the only thing that was missing was the switch of like somebody putting something else in the gullets please just a quick, like,

nah, as disgusting as that was the idea of trying to rapidly push something else back down and Gullah is very uncomfortable. Oh man.

And you know, when the writing was, they thought of that

maybe, maybe we'll get some deleted scenes whenever the assembled documentary. So leech there, we've talked about it a little bit, but there's a moment where as Layla goes in for the kiss to Stephen, Stephen blurts out the truth of why mark has been pushing her away, where did you think that was the right move for Steven in that moment? I

think it's a lot easier to tell someone something that they should know when you have nothing, you know, it doesn't really affect you all that much. So I feel like it, it might've been an inappropriate time for sure, but I feel like it was very easy for him to say it and just get it out there. It's like, oh, this isn't that hard. You know, I have no emotional connection to it. Like, let's just get this done. Like, by the way, like before anything else continues, blah.

I don't know if I agree with you on there's nothing for Steven to lose because in what we talked about, it's the same body. So like you run into that problem of like, like identity wise, it wasn't Steven. Physically though you were, the body was there, it, it, you participated, you, did you, you know what I mean? And so it makes me wonder like, like, can you have that level of separation?

I mean, he was pretty pissed off at him. He say, you know, if I need a protein smoothie recipe, I'll hit you up. Like he, yeah. And maybe it was out of spite. I don't know.

But I mean, for Layla though, like to, to have that separation of like, oh, I'm dealing with,

oh yeah, just that full on bright, like the words coming out of his mouth that that happened. So, I mean, like for her, it's like, dude, what

she handles it very well because you have that moment. You have the moment where. Steven genuinely, at least to the identity of Stephen openly expresses sentiments to her. I'm sorry, your, you lost your father and she takes it sincerely. And then she has the moment where it finally breaks after she learns the truth. There was like enough, I want to talk to mark. So it's like, Three, two to three instances that have happening and then it finally breaks at, towards the end. But it is weird.

Yeah. It's tough to say. Um, cause you get into that weird mind body. Yeah,

I think it was a net net instance of their interaction. It was appropriate to just clear the air. Like I get why that would happen. But I think that whole thing was like inappropriate for what they were trying to do. Like they needed to get down there. Like, can we grab some more flares? Let's go like, let's, let's do this.

That's not the time. Well, unless there's anything more in this section, I think we can get to the one we've really been waiting for. I mean, the

one that makes this the first hour of this spike, so relevant,

the one that makes me so glad that leaches on this episode, because this last third is built for leech and Litas rabbit hole. My gosh. So with that being said, we're going to transition into the final important topic, which is the nucleus of our personality. Like I said, we're going to detail the entirety of that final sequence, where we discover what we think we know may in fact, be Justin Mark's head June. We'll go ahead and start with you.

Okay. So I was trying to take the other sections at like the same way we're doing the other episodes. Like I'm just going to ma like take the end out of my mind. But at this point, it's like, well, is the Layla we saw actually having the feelings and reactions that we think she did or was that March projection? I guess mark is the identity prime. The original now is that, is that what's established. Um, I love that that showed the old movie.

I'm going to come to leach here in a second, but I want to on the record just clearly stated. Are you taking this end as confirmation that all of this is in the mental hospital and inside Mark's head? I have no idea. No idea. Okay.

Because he got shot. And so

it was justification for Donna. So I don't know. I was just going to see if you were like 100% in the camp that this is all in Mark's head. I don't know. Okay. Leech, I don't know. Where do you fall? Okay.

On this 42 slide presentation here, you will see. Um, so timeline wise, this is after he got shot. So that just anchors that there for me. I am still very confused about Stephen's timeline because he's had his job long enough to piss off his boss enough and piss off everyone around him enough and apparently have enough of a googly-eyed relationship with someone to get a date out of them. Like, is that really three months? Is that longer? That's super muddy.

well, first it's always good to have more Oscar Isaac.

Yeah. You

can never go wrong. Yeah. But that's what I'm saying. Like he was shot. So is this kind of like in his head and how the mark Steven brain is in the waning moments between death and life dealing with did, is it limbo or is it him coming out of a psychosis? Like I, I just, I don't know. I wonder.

If like how avatars die and if they do die, because I'm really, I'm, I'm leaning towards, this is either all, not all of it's in his head, but like his mind's being rated right now. And this is how his mind is, I guess, shown to us and like how his mind works, because he thinks he's crazy all the time. And maybe this is, you know, how he displays that. I don't know this one really. I'm still trying to digest it really I've seen it twice. And I just, I don't know.

Yeah. And it had everything, it had the gold statue guy, it had the cane, the glass, like it had everything. And it just like all the references.

Oh, I remind note taking section I gave up on this important topic. What I did is I just started a bullet point and wrote down every reference I saw and I got up to 17 and I doubt that's even like half of it to 17 different instances of them referring to the previous episodes.

Oh yeah.

This is like, I'm so sorry. I just thought what if this is like conscious, like weird limbo layer for all of his past avatar? And because he's gone, that's why it's not the head table anymore. And someone else is taking that seat and using that leverage to manipulate Steven and mark it's like his wing of the, his re the realm or whatnot. Like, you know, cause the drawing, the drawing sticks out to me. I don't know what it is. The sketch of Concho. That's just the

hummingbird slash conscious you head. Yeah. Yeah.

And it would make sense why Arthur's their former avatar?

Yep. There was a part of me that was feeling. And I couldn't find the angle cause it doesn't sound like Arthur wants constitute back. Uh, even if he, this was some sort of ploy to get contrary away from mark and Steven, we know that the, the he's just the avatar and the avatar is missing country because he's been in the statue. But there was something that stood out to me in the ways that they really focused in on Arthur saying I can't help someone who doesn't want to be saved.

if he's broken as an avatar, then who does he go to next? If Layla, if Layla, you know, finally laughter he's figured out and there's no one for him to go to. What do you go to a previous avatar? Or is there anyone else in light? Like, I'm wondering if this is like a way to like mentally get him out of the game for Concho. So Contra can't come back. Even if they can somehow get the statue.

Look, I'm going to say it. I would have everybody in there including HARO is a different personality or identity.

Yeah, that definitely, uh, across my mind, it's, it's, there's so many ways to go with it, you know, as long we start throwing out theories, you know what else I thought it could have possibly been right before Steven pushes this a COVID has open. He's like, oh, everything is telling me not to open this. And Mark's like, just do it. I wonder if there was something, some sort of like tying into the supernatural side of like mummies and everything they're exploring here.

and then this score be in Q

rises.

Totally was and he killed it. It was so it was so perfect. It was just the right time in history for that to happen. It was so cringey looking

back, all I know are the trailers I'm a

with, I think it could be any theory at this point. Like we don't, this show has kept us in the dark on so much. What also somehow keeping a story going along without us just getting purely frustrated time constraints, probably have a factor in why. Moving so fast, but I feel so uncomfortable not knowing anything

more. Well, there's an element of that. I was wondering how they pulled it off. Like, did they, you know, you hear about, okay, you kind of write with the end in mind, I'm always wondering, like, did they write this scene and what we haven't seen yet first and then, and even shot it and then found a way. From the beginning on, in order to, to place all the different actors and egg Easter eggs, you know what I mean? Like, like kind of reverse engineer backwards.

Yeah. This definitely feels like one of those inspired set pieces that, cause there was an interview that I'll try and link to. Again, we linked it in the first episode where Mohammed DIA talked about, he was so prepared for this. I think he mentioned having something in mind that he pitched. And so I could see this being the, the, the idea and everything else was filling in to make sure that idea worked because it is so thorough.

Watching it all back to back to back like, oh my gosh, I couldn't, I couldn't even, I

can't remember. Now if today it was coworker and friend, Ken or friend in shop, dog and cohost. Second time person, TJ, and it get all the, now

you're just rubbing it

into the prefixes him. I don't remember which one said it, but they mentioned, as I mentioned how I said at the beginning, This would have been a really cool season finale and give us a season two. Then one of them mentioned about your preschooler thought if the idea of like, well, dude, just imagine having those four episodes and having to wait, but now having a whole year plus to wait for that climate Clippinger um, that would have been crazy.

I don't think I could have handled it. Not

that I know. I would've done it though.

I have another theory about what's going on here and I want to see if it holds water for anybody else. There is another section where Layla. Comes in and she won the bingo and she's like, we won, we won and she starts to run off and then she comes back and she goes, I promise, I'll share it with you this time. I'm this is a very far limb.

what I, I'm going to say. You have, you have something. Yeah. Um, yeah, the

hangup, my hangup being the statue that is found is of Ahmed, the God, or did he got, I'm not entirely sure at the end is a hippo. We've already established that the Ahmed is the, the alligator lady with the head. So I don't know where Layla would have found another statute lying around. Other than that I have I've, that's where I want to start building my grains of sand is on Layla coming into the real world with new avatar powers.

Well, and, and I mean, one of the things TJ brought up on the last pod and, and we kind of discussed was, and this is before knowing what the end of this episode. Layla was clearly familiar with that world. And it wouldn't conscious you would wanted her as an avatar and found her as an avatar or her possibility of being an avatar attractive for reason. So in that sense, I don't think it's far off to say that she ends up being an avatar somehow in this, in this, and that was what was

happening. What do you think lead to my, uh, my building a sturdy sandcastle here?

Well, it kind of has me wondering now that if this is like a weird avatar limbo area, maybe there's been someone else in Laila this whole time and that's actually Layla.

Oh, wow. Like even, even hidden to her as well.

Yeah. Like Layla's been like stuck in this limbo and she's obviously lost it and may, Ooh, maybe this is where they go. Uh, when they're not. I don't know

both the identities of mark and the Egyptian gods since they need the, the avatars to be able to communicate with in the world.

Yeah. So that's like your standby

limbo standby for the real world.

I, yeah, I kinda, I didn't really think about the Layla angle of like she's right there. Like they have a full on interaction with bingo and stuff. Like I just grazed by that it was really focused on the whole mark and Steven thing, but. There's there's something

there. We get doxed with so much information and I don't blame you

well, and I wonder, I mean, as, as well thought out as this has been, there has to be something significant. I think about bingo and the letters called and the number's called there is a wrong

letter called too. It was like a T or a J or something. Right.

I think for sure. . I think I didn't write it down, but, um, no, I just had a thought, uh, back to what you were saying, leech of the possibility of this being the limbo of either the did personalities or the Egyptian gods themselves. It when, whenever Marcus shot and he falls backward in the water, two things, one, you see that he fell and you can see the bottom of the water as he's laying on the, the, not the concrete, but just the, the floor of the two.

Well, I'm going to back you up on the. Well, I mean, cause, cause at the very beginning, you know, you show, they showed where the stone ceramic, whatever country was and led us to believe that there's more than just conscious you there. Right. And you're talking about the very

beginning, not a Cyrus, one of the Egyptian gods as he's putting the statue away. Right?

Yeah. But like it made us still believe there's more other guts, right? With that in mind. What if, what HARO was doing? What if all night, what if, what horror was doing and sucking out the life soul or whatever was encapsulating them and they didn't really die. They're just waiting to be freed. Oh.

That's a lot of stacks. I'm assuming the times that we've seen horo do that is not, not exclusive to the episodes. I can't imagine how much of a waiting room they've got going on.

Yeah, he has a nice little collection there probably play a full game of chess with him.

Did anyone else stick out? I feel like they focused on a lot of faces in there too. Where any of them from the trial, I guess, is what that would be called and from CDC.

Yeah. That's like that. I don't know. I recognized a lot of, uh, museum people, the two police officers, DC people. So, so I recognize a lot of them, but I didn't catch if it was any of the avatars.

I did see the gold statue, man, which you already talked about. I'm 80% sure. I saw the old woman and the elevator from the first episode. Um, I don't think I saw any of the gods, the avatars for the gods, but I'm trying to think of anybody else stuck out to me that way and off the top of my

head. No. Yeah. I don't think so. I I'd have to really like pause. Look through it. For

all the confusion we have. One of the solidifying things we do have is we see both Steven and mark actually physically present. How did you feel about seeing the meat leech?

Oh, it felt like such a relief. Just relief in the air of like, oh, thank God. I'm not crazy. I'm also crazy. Cause we're both here. So that was, that was wild to see the movie obsessed person in me. It was like, okay, how are they going to pull this off? Like, let me see that stunt double kind of thing. Like, let me see like the heritable and everything. And it was very well done. I will say from that, you know, outside point of view, like they did a, such a good job on that.

Yeah. I, I really appreciated the sense of comfort they have when they embrace like, oh my God, how is this possible? I don't know, but you're here kind of thing. Like, and I think the contrast of that to them seeing the third sarcophagus, a red circle and playing violence, uh, and they just kind of pass through without even investigating it. Like, I think even some consciously they know to avoid that section.

uh,

Loki, uh, on,

in Asgard. Yeah, they do that in dark world too. There was a Batman one, but I think the dark world, one's probably a better fit for this podcast.

Yeah. But I mean, but I know what you're talking about is Batman begins where at the end, where they're freeing the

people. Yeah. They hover on one and they just leave it . So that's what it, that's what it felt like to me see that sarcophagus in the room and they just got to ignore it.

I think there, I don't know where we're at because again, speculation, but I feel like that that's going to be another identity. Let out. Um, and the, one of the ways they pulled that off so well was you had an Oscar Isaac in the room. And the other one, I believe was Michael Benjamin Hernandez, who is Oscar Isaac's brother. No,

that makes sense. That man has like the most recognizable hairline of like it's. I just there's no other way. Other than blood that can duplicate

that. How lucky that they were able to get a brother of similar statutes, right.

The insurance policy on those two, my goodness.

I don't want to say we're coming to an end. Cause like you said, dude, we could spend the rest of the night here, but unless we have any more, we might be able to move to listeners first takes.

Yeah, I think we should. Cause like I, I, at this point, like it's, it's I,

who knows I'll I'll check with you.

How are we just not going to address the very end at all

the hippo? Yeah. Oh, I thought it wasn't mentioned,

I mean, it was mentioned,

but like, I don't know what to make of the hippo.

Like I think that throws all the theories

for a loop. Like what am I? One of my students looked it up and I, and so I'm kind of ignoring it, but, but also can I say it's going, gonna kind of say, and they looked it up, I think

is going to remove. And then you can say, okay, I'll get, hold on, put them back. I'll give you thumbs up.

I got rid of the headphones. I'll give you the thumbs up. Um, so, so they looked up and all that, but all it was, I don't think it gives anything else, but it was like, it was like, like you said, with Ahmet in the, the alligator. Right. And in there it was just like, oh, a hippo is the Egyptian God of this. And I won't say what this is. Okay. How about that?

So that's the thing. Oh, I'll add this and bring back in, there was something about it that signaled friendly. So you get this feeling of like again company. Yeah. There's not, yeah. Yeah. She's not looking at the camera.

I just realized I've had my headphones on backwards this whole time.

That's really why we discuss this headphone shit.

Traded. Say one thing that I won't tell you, he did say he got the feeling that, that the indication for as quickly as it was, this hippo was friendly.

I mean, it started out with high versus like a slap in the face. So like the way we've been going late, no creepy fingers coming through the woodwork. So I'm, I'm relieved

beggars.

Can't be choosers on that part. Yeah.

Like, you know, you're either an ally or an enemy at that point, like in that situation. So fair,

fair.

Uh, hippos are terrifying though. They are super off track, but like, oh my God, have you seen like the water? They throw the watermelon on them. It's just like half a bite and it's good.

Don't mess with it. You

just don't, don't tug on Superman's Cape until mess with him. Wow. You really hate Zack Snyder. Uh, you know, the, the bizarreness of like my priest boiler thought of like, not knowing what to say it is, is the hippo. Like every time I thought I had an angle on where we were going, I just keep coming back to the hippo. Like, what am I supposed to read at this point? And of course we'll, we'll find out more eventually, but man, what a, what a way to throw us at the. Oh, I was

digging too that whole time. I mean, you know, you know, I was like just trying to like poke holes in that thing and like get theories and just every five seconds I was invalidated just watching that last 10 minutes. So who knows? I hope it's like just pieces of all of our stuff and it makes sense. And I know it

will just like a collection of everything we've thrown out today might

be. And plus some stuff we never even thought of. Cause we just don't know. We just don't. We have nothing, nothing to go off of. This is all such new territory. Yeah.

You know, I, I talked about in episode one, so much of the talk going into this season was this is standalone from the MCU. There's more connections in this show versus this one. Like we've made it four episodes and there's no overarching connection. I wonder if that was intentional to throw us off once we got here so that we couldn't clearly say, oh yeah, that's the real world, because obviously they referenced the snap or they referenced iron.

it's a limited series. It's probably just group sessions from here on out.

If it starts with the group session. Oh,

yeah. Well, I think we're going to have to put a pin on this until next week, so let's go ahead and move into listeners first takes. So we did reach out on social media to see what everybody else thought of this episode, and it feels very appropriate to start with this one. This one comes in from the slushie on Twitter and it reads that ending though with a bunch of exclamation marks and question marks. I think, uh, I think she summarized it perfectly. Uh,

me one of these days, I'll figure it out. Okay, sorry. Okay, here we go. You ready?

You spelled Twitter wrong on that. And I'm just done like a

slushie. Oh, I missed a T.

Yeah,

just ruined the whole

episode. Start over. Um, kin on Twitter with two T's. Uh, I think Spider-Man says it all for me. And he put a gift. I'm a Spiderman from far from home and the WTF moment as his identity is revealed by J Jonah, Jameson. Uh, you know what that's um, I mean, as I say, you know, coworker, Shawn texted me just as we're starting to record. And he said something very similar. He's like, now it's become the mind twister. I was hoping.

this? Yeah. Oh, I forgot to ask leech. Are you comfortable reading the next

one? Yeah, that's fine. I was like trying to see if you are going to ask just cause I didn't know if I was going to jump in or not and

I got it. This is the problem with being so comfortable with you here. I forget you're not regular. Like

I knew that that was what you were waiting on, but like you hadn't. So we were both stuck in

that like,

well, the floor is all yours.

Okay. Love. Okay. So then we have here friend Daniel on Twitter. Loved it. Blends horror, adventure in psychological thriller with a wacky humor. That's fresh,

not too fresh though. Cause those corpses looked like they were rotting.

Yeah. Well it, it, it is, it is, it is very fresh. I think, you know, there's reminiscence of a wander vision. Um, but even this from the beginning of one division, usually something was up right. And just, what was it? Whereas here they did it. They sucked you in, you know, and then it will then pull the rug out.

Well, you already thought all this psychological stuff, like we had already kind of established that and we're moving forward and getting to the conclusion. No.

Yup. You're wrong? Yeah. That's what that episode says. Yeah. It's it's

crazy. Uh, finally, this last one comes in from Ben Dutton, Maddie, over on Instagram and it reads, I was going to say how much I loved episode four. But now I'm thinking is WTF. I love that three out of the four first takes. We have all essentially WTF.

So can I add what TJ texted me? Yeah. Go for it. So he texted me last night, like 9 48 dude. And I texted him back to the nearest one. And he's like, what in the world just happened? He's like the only thing I said that was correct so far was that the show feels unpredictable and all over the place was like, yeah, that's pretty much what would happen. Oh,

Well, of course, those were listeners first take. So thank you all that reached out and let us know what you thought. Uh, if you want to partake in that for future episodes, of course, you can always follow us on social media, but we are trying something new this season. So if you want to audibly leave your thoughts, you can always hit the phone number (512) 893-1355. So yeah, so with first takes out of the way, that's going to bring us to final thoughts.

I feel like I have more lingering questions and final thoughts, because I don't know what to think at this point.

What about you

June? I feel the same way. Cause like making prediction, I felt like this whole last section was like, oh, these kinds of predictions, something. I will say that something to consider, I expected this week for us to get that third identity. And I feel like since we didn't, I think they're going to spend an episode bearing as deeper into the mind-bending what's going on. That's going to have to be untangled in the final finale.

real, we're going through like the Steven experience. Oh, wow. What's

happening. We have to go deeper before we get any sort of clarity. I think, you know, for me something to consider going into next week as much talk as there's been about this being a limited run, we've essentially only. To moon night scenes, moon scenes of him in the suit. I'm really expecting a uptick. And the amount of time we see in that suit and that can

be, and get that book of Boba Fett ending for the season with mood

night. How dare you?

Yeah. Watch the next episode. Be like an intro episode. Does she hold,

we're done with Moonlight now. She hooks our best friend.

Oh yeah. Like this next episode is gonna be like an intro to she hold or it's like an extended in tag of Shawn. She, you know,

oh man. So yeah, that's what I I'm considering going into next week. We really feel like we're going to see more of the moon night superhero, uh, in this next episode. And I think it's going to be. Even in the absence of country,

in

the absence of country. Yeah. I think we're going to find some way where he's able to tap into that power without consciously being around, or at least conscious of being in the statue because we see Hearos able to tap into some power with Ahmet being an encased in the statute as well.

Okay. Cause my only thing is, is everything we've seen HARO do has been prior to the end of the episode. And it could be the case that mark is just running around in a suit. And there's no real, like super power thing. That's

so he's the gold man.

Well, well, like, I mean, I mean, comic wise and, and we, we, we generally try to stay away from comic knowledge, uh, just for spoiler reasons. You know, he wa he was Moonlight was compared a lot to, to Batman. Gotcha. And, and, you know, in a sense of like the pinning of what run you're looking at, as I understand it, is it a power superpower, or is it a guy running around in a suit the way Batman runs a lot in the suit?

to go and cool. Definitely something to consider for next week. Well, I think this is going to do it, Lisa, thank you so much for joining us on this episode. Like I said earlier, this felt like it was perfect for you to come in. We schedule these guests bus without knowing what episodes are going to be. What, but I'm so glad this was the one you got to join in on.

I, I almost texted you right after and was just like, of course, it's this episode that I decided to wait until this moment to say that, because it was just too perfect. Like you, like you knew he really did get those four

episodes. Huh? Kind of if I get super fan

that's right. That's right. You know what out of respect for us, we actually didn't get the episodes, but he texted us and he's like, oh, you should get leech.

We don't want to say, but we're saying

you got to like sync all the promos. I totally understand.

Yeah. Well, yeah, if you want to keep up with leach and what they do, make sure you're following [email protected] slash XO . As for this show, if you want to keep in touch with us, you can find us at MC you need to know on Twitter and Instagram. It's a great place to connect with us, uh, and hear our thoughts on the episode before the episode drops on Monday.

And of course, scroll down to the bottom of the show notes. You'll find all the various links we've mentioned throughout this episode. You'll find the phone number to leave us a voicemail and have your voice heard. Uh, if you do call in, please make sure to leave. Uh, the name you want mentioned. Is it the discord name and Twitter handle and Instagram handle?

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandi for the use of our theme song, which is his rendition of the Avengers theme. You can find more of his work on the SoundCloud, which is linked in the show notes as well. That's going to do it. Thank you so much for listening. Uh, Legion, Jude. Thank you so much for doing this as well. Thank you tray. Thank you. We'll see you all next week. Boom. That's an episode, dude. I love, love, love that you talked about the different monikers.

I'll join the club dude, like, jeez.

It's like, why can't we all be friends in the pod?

It's because we know too many Daniels and too many shots. That is

really weird. Actually. You do know a

lot. I know,

I think they're

made up and then the first time we had, Hey, don't do that to me. The first time we had Rob Logan on, we had another one of Jude's friends who was also named as rock

Rob. Yeah. For that, for the Simpsons. Uh,

low-key special. Of course it was the same week. We put out that,

oh gosh.