Hawkeye Review S1E3: Pizza Dog + Special Guest Ellie from Oh Shoot Podcast!

Hello and welcome back to another episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe and everything you need to know. I'm Trey!

I'm Jude. How are you doing Trey?

Well, Jude, I'm excited because today we get to expand our pod friends group with a first time guest, whether she's spreading into quotes on Insta infectious excitement on our podcast or becoming the guardian of spoilers on Twitter. We're glad Ellie from oh, shoot podcast is joining us. Welcome Ellie. Welcome Ellie. Thank you

so much for having me. I'm so excited. Yeah. How's it going? Is it going fantastic? How's it going with both

vio? You know what? This is usually. The highlight of my day on recording days. I love recording. It's it's awesome to do this. I know

you scared me for a second because you prefaced it by saying usually I was like, oh,

you know what? I got, you gotta leave that little bit of room. You never know what it's going to happen on a Thursday. I might win the lottery, you know,

excellent points. Well, you know, we are very new to your podcast alley, but Jude and I have been enjoying it. And we definitely wanted to reach out to you and get to work together, especially during this Hawkeye season. But another thing we wanted to do is also spotlight your podcast here at the top. So I was wondering if you could walk us through the origin of oh, shoot podcast as well as the origin of the name itself.

Yeah, totally. Well, I honestly, I remember this day perfectly where I was like, oh my God, I should start a podcast. I was in the car with my sister. We were coming back from her dad's place. And I was just like, thinking about the fact that I love movies and that I literally spend my days watching interviews and just like videos with like all of these actors I love. And just like watching movies that I love over and over again.

I know

some of them were like, oh my God, like, stop talking to us about this movie. Like I get it. You love it. Okay. So. What if I started a podcast? Oh, a way for me to talk about all of these movies that I love and, you know, put it out for other people who also like the same movies to listen and just kind of share that passion. So I sent a Snapchat to a bunch of my friends and I was like, should I start a podcast? And they all said, yes. So I was like, okay, cool. I got the validation.

Yeah. I agree. Yeah. It is a good name actually is a really good name.

It's one of those names that definitely stands out, but then knowing the story on top of it just makes it that much more special. So, yeah, that's really cool. And I love the way that you talked about how.

Yeah. I wish I had a story like that on tray. I, all I have is Monday taking my youngest daughter to soccer practice. And true story. This past Monday, she gets really mad at me, all of a sudden, and I wasn't sure why. And it was just like, why are you, are you upset? And trying to, she was like, I don't want to hurt your feelings. And this was a big, bold moment for her. Like, she, she came up clean and honest and she was like, he talked too much. And I was like, okay. It's like, trust me.

man. That is lovely.

I love that. I love that.

You know what? She's nine and comfortable enough to tell me that in I'm good.

Well, you know, something else that stood out to me about your podcast is that even though you have started with the MCU, I think you've made it pretty clear that you're not going to be strictly MCU movies on the podcast. What, uh, what are your plans for after you've covered the MCU movies?

Um, well, I have a big old, massive document full of movies. I love and want to talk about, which is it's actually really funny because originally I wasn't going to start with Marvel movies and I don't even remember my thought process going into it. I think it was because, you know, with 2021, we were starting to get Marvel productions again, and we were getting phased for movies and TV shows. And that got me excited.

Yeah. I'm excited to see you here to hear your thoughts and the tackle, the Harry Potter series. Cause I don't have a lot of thoughts because I never think about it to the podcast I listened to. I don't think I've come across a Harry Potter. One that I've listened to.

There's a couple, the ones that I've listened to kind of go more into lore or kind of speak on the books more than anything. And which of course like getting, you know, got, got to circle back to the source material. I know when I get to the movies, it's definitely going to be talking about the differences and cause one of my favorite things about Harry Potter is isn't so much the movies or the books, books itself.

Yeah. That's that sounds really

interesting. Yeah. It seems like the Harry Potter franchise. And maybe I'm just kind of speaking out of nowhere here, but it feels like the Harry Potter franchise missed the boat on podcasts being devoted to them. So to see you circle back to it, with that lens of the community has been built around, it seems like a really interesting idea and I'm looking forward to it as well.

Um, I know I'm, I'm like saying as if I'm not the person doing it, I'm like I'm excited to connect back with that world. It's always exciting.

Well, you know, speaking of connecting to a world, uh, shifting gears to the Marvel side of things, what is your connection to the MCU? What got you into Euro talking about these films as much as you do?

That's a good question. Similar to Harry Potter. I'd say the movies have just been a big part of my life since I was a kid, you know, like I remember watching iron man when I was a kid watching Spider-Man watch, like the Raimi movies were such a big part of my life when I was a kid too, you know, they were my favorite movies when they were coming out. Like, I still remember going to the theater to see the second and third one, cause I was too young to see the first one in theaters.

more. Yeah. So if you are going to introduce the MCU to someone who's never seen it. What's what's the on-ramp what, what movie do you give them first?

Hm. So, Ooh. That's such a good question. Like I almost. Like want to say, go classic with like the Avengers, because that's the first time where we get our original six, you know, that's a first, I feel like it was that movie that got me like really excited for what was to come because, you know, at the end of that movie, we start getting the clue that Santos is going to be big villain.

That's fantastic. That's fantastic.

And it makes a lot of sense too. Cause like calling back to the intro, you know, the infectious excitement, I think is one of the things that stood out of your podcast. So to hear that at the core of what you would show to people is totally in line with what you do in your. Thank you.

I love this episode so much. Aye. Okay. Obviously, you know, we got a few more episodes to gout, but I feel like this episode is going to be the standout. One of what we're going to get. I mean, Maybe we'll get some shocking moments going into the rest of the season, but this was such an amazing episode. One of my absolute favorites of all the shows that we've gotten. So.

Yes, I actually, Trey, you should go next because you said, I think very similar. Yeah, I'll go

ahead and cut in line here. And, uh, we, we always share our preschooler thoughts on Twitter and Instagram. So I'm just going to read this verbatim and it says, well, executed simplicity makes this episode a strong contender for one of the better episodes of the Disney plus era so far. So Ellie, I wholeheartedly agree about what you said of this being such a great episode. And it was like I had to stop myself after watching it get from just immediately proclaiming it the best.

I know I'm due for a rewatch anyway.

Well, it's funny something you said. Um, Ellie, something you said is similar to what my first thought was. It was like, we're halfway done. And I want eight, like, like give me two more, you know, and it was the thing I came out of this episode is like, uh, there's only three more. Do we need four more or five more? Um, I hope there's a season two also, when I think what I found really interesting is this episode, and I was telling Trey this off pod earlier today that.

I think that's a good summary of our pre spoiler thoughts. So, uh, like we said, you're going to hear an audio cure and on the other side, there'll be fair game for all spoilers in the MCU. So we'll see you on the other side. Um, And we're back. So the way we're going to handle this is we're going to break it down into the most important topics. And the first one we're going to start with is Maya Lopez.

Oh, man, I guess I'll start with the fact that I, I cried a little,

um,

I love when our Disney plus shows, give us it looking emotional beginning, you know, One of my other favorites was with like Falcon in the winter soldier. And we had that episode start with like Bucky and Wakanda finally, like healing from all the trauma that came with, you know, being the winter soldier and having like finally being able to let go of that. I love those like really emotional, deep opening.

Yeah, no, I, my first note is I love the use of flashbacks. Um, cause this is one of those things that like sometimes flashbacks they're used, but they're not really used. Well, and you mentioned the Falcon, the winter soldier, the use of flashback, they used the flashback here was just so done so well.

Yeah. You talk about it being educational in the show's part and how it informs these characters. The thing that I think this show is excelling at is conveying how characters feel through the use of sound or lack thereof. And like the thing that stood out to me about Maya is you already learned that she's such an observant character and how she's able to use that to her advantage. As far as learning goes, as you know, the teacher was surprised that she was able to fill out her workbook and.

And Ellie, I love that you brought up the, the shadow puppets with the dragons. It was heartbreaking when she was asking about going to the, the school for the deaf. And he's basically saying you can't. And then I see that interaction with her at her, you know, martial arts lesson that, that. That the father daughter had. And it makes sense, like, cause you wonder sometimes like it's easy in shows. We've mentioned Harry Potter, you know, and earlier, and it's easily to have that very binary.

I, yeah, no, I definitely agree. And what I really appreciate about, about it as well is that it creates those layers and it just allows them to be much more of a well rounded character or, you know, of course there's like a bit of that setup for her to be. Like somewhat of a villain in this case. And Marvel unfortunately has a long history of not having well-rounded villains. They usually fall very, very flat.

Yeah. I liked that you brought that up about Marvel's track record when it comes to villains because it has gotten better in recent years. And the thing I think that has gotten better is the nuance at which they give these villains. So again, going back to what you also said, Jude, about how you can fall into the trap of this person bad. This person's good. The thing that I love so much about how they've tied.

yeah. Imagine this show completely from Maya's perspective. Right? And so we get that scene where. Ronan is doing is Ronan thing. Uh, or at that point, from her perspective, Rodin's doing the road in thing. We don't know who it is and, but we follow her whole life through training and she tracks down Barton and then we find out it's Barton, like she's a clearly a protagonist that you would root for. Right? Like that's a, that's a show we would watch.

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing with Clinton. Like everyone knows who he is. Like, he he's an Avenger. Everyone now look across the world, like sees him and sees that hero. You know, they'll remember calling back to 2012 when the Avengers saved New York, there's going to be all of these like little moments that people think of.

You know what I know, we're, we're still kind of talking about my hair, but you mentioned that dark spot in the hero isn't that they know him for. Marvel has also put him in that weird space where he was going after mafia that survived the blip. I do wonder if the show's going to, again with only three episodes left, it'd be hard to, to do they tread in that space where it's like, oh, we find out it's Clint and Avenger.

an interesting question because it's difficult to consider how people within the MCU, the average civilian is going to feel, because I mean, it's pretty obvious how a lot of fans feel about it. And a lot of fans aren't forgiving of his actions because when you look at the people he's being, um, you know, going after, during the blip, they were primarily people of color and that's old. All that we saw on scene was the people he was going after were people of color.

Or on the urinal where it's just staying up. She was right. There's a lot of different,

well, you know, speaking of differing perspectives, uh, eventually we get a little further into the, to the episode where we see there's a disagreement between Maya and Kasi and specifically about Maya's continued pursuit in, uh, searching for Ronan and how Kasi doesn't think it's a great idea. Uh, what did you make of this infighting between the Meli? I mean, I

thought it was very interesting and. Because I've been wondering about the relationship between Kasi and Maya and cause I round with Washington, with my friend and we were like, it kind of seems like there's like a bit of a relationship there. Like, it seems like there's a bit of a deeper, you know, they're not just like coworkers or something, you know, there's, there's a bond.

I think Katie even poisons it out. It's like, did anybody else pick up the tension between the hot I

picked it up too. And it's interesting because I hope that moving forward in the rest of the episodes, we get a little bit of a deeper look into what their relationship is like and, you know, getting an idea of what they, what they mean to each other. Cause I feel like that would actually add a lot of depth and you know, calling back to that disagreement in episode three, I feel like.

Um, well, what I also find interesting, and this is outside of the show, I guess we know Maya gets a spinoff. That's true. Very excited about it. Yeah. And so that might be part of the catalyst of how you get there with, with the two of them, you know, like, cause I had that note, it was like CA causes there for Maya. Otherwise I don't think he would be there, you know? And so I'm curious, uh, what is that, what is that draw?

and, and, you know, I brought this up earlier, but I'll bring it again. I, I like all that. They're doing nuance wise with Maya and to have this infighting between Maya and Kasi, it shows Maya's and FA is fallible because she is driven by revenge. Understandably so, but we've seen how corrosive revenge can be. And on the flip side, it humanizes Kasi as more than just an antagonist, because he does have some sense of like, Hey, this isn't right.

Well, yeah, I mean, with, with Maya and Hawkeye or Barton, I guess right there in that, in that exchange, you see. Well, she points out Clint's downfall. You rely on the technology, right? And he makes a little joke about this, but she's talking about her ability to like what she learned about being this awareness of surroundings.

man, I really love the way you framed that. That was a very insightful for what they're doing with both these characters.

What was very good. Very good.

And I do. I'm going to bed.

I'm done here.

Oh man. I do have something I want to play off, but we need to establish something before we get there. So Ellie, I saw you hyping this up on Twitter. So I'm going to throw to you who was that person at the karate. Well, since

Fez, AKA king

pen, are we all in agreement here?

We, I hope so. Well, I dunno, you sent me a text earlier training about like, oh, I'm not sure. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited. Like a friend of mine, Jonathan, who listens to the pod. Sometimes he did one of the sweetest things I think anybody could do. Like, he's one of those, I don't watch trailers, but he watched the first Spider-Man trailer just to listen to our react thing. And I was like, dude, that was, that was really cool of you. That's truly

an honor.

Yeah. But like knowing like his view on spoilers, he texted me last night. He goes, is that who I think it is just like, you really want me to answer that question

and that's like the exact question you need to, I guess it's like, are you sure you

want to know?

Which do you really want to go down this rabbit hole? Yeah. You know, I, I gave due to hard time, but yes, I, I wholeheartedly agree that it is Wilson Fisk as well specifically. I mean, all we have to go on is a chuckle and I hand, but if that ain't the hand and chuckle Vincent D'Onofrio, I don't know what

I was like. Cause my friend and I were, we did a watch party, you know, we stayed up until it released. And I was like, okay, first of all, looked at black suit. Look at him, look at how large of a man that is. I'm like, and I'm like, here's the. If it was just some random person, like if it was some random man named Richard or something that happened to be her uncle or uncle figure who was irrelevant, why not show his face? Yeah. It's hidden for a reason.

Well, I'll tell you that the texts that Trey sent was, I don't know, we were all convinced it was Reed Richards off the text, Monica Rambo.

So that was, I was just pulling dude's leg. I didn't think it was going to make the podcast, but if I had any, any slight doubt, it would be Disney plus is not afraid to swerve. So, uh,

no. Okay. We know that with our little fake Pietro

little fake Pietro. I like that. That's fantastic. Oh man. Well, I, again, I alluded to saying that I wanted to bring something up, but we needed to set up this Wilson Fisk potential character. First on top of that, Ellie, are you familiar with Daredevil? Because that will shape how I phrase this. It's

funny. I actually started watching it this year. Oh, fantastic.

Yeah. So I've only seen season one and four episodes of season two. And I thinking I need to go ahead and finish that series by the time this year is over.

You have until next Wednesday tray from, from the handshake, but, okay,

well, I'll say this. Went from what we did on our podcast covering Daredevil. The thing that we learned about Wilson Fisk is how emotionally driven he is. Now, if Maya is supposed to be somebody who is heavily influenced from Wilson Fisk, it makes all the sense in the world that she is quick to that anger and that scene with Kate, where she starts to grappler. Because if Wilson, Fisk is a influential figure, then yeah, it's, it, it, it makes all the sense in the world that that would happen.

Yeah. I'm so excited. Okay. I just, I just, okay. And that's, and that's the other thing is like, I want to be very careful thinking back to my experience at Wanda vision. And, and be guarded about it being Fisk. Cause we saw the hand in the water fish doesn't show up until the last episode, you know, or maybe even an intact.

I feel like if you know, we get that intro deduction or re-introduction of Wilson fair. I feel like it's, he's not going to play a massive role in this show, but more so with echo, when we get that show on Disney, plus, I feel like that's where he would be much more of a prominent character, but I feel like if he, you know, come on Marvel, like give them, like, give this to us, give us this one thing.

Yeah. Kinda like, kinda like we got how we got king and low-key

exactly. We got a nice little taste like here, here he is. Here he is. Yep. Just wait, just wait until, you know, like quantum mania, season two of low key, like it's, he's going to be much more of a further developed character in those productions.

You're getting me excited for all these other things. Okay.

This is what I do in my day to day. I get yourself excited and then I get other people excited about these movies.

I, I think that's a pretty good wrap on the Maya section. So we're going to go ahead and move into the next, most important topic, which is entitled track and field. So this is going to be the section that deals with the tracksuit mafia as they have Clint and Kate hostage and takes us all the way through Clinton, Kate escaping through that highway chasing. So Jude, if we could start with you, where would you like to start within this section?

Okay. I'm going to start in a really weird spot, cause this is what it came out. I feel so bad for imagine dragons just. And I've talked about this on, on pod and train. And I talk about this all the time off pod of like, of like, we want to start with a positive and, but it's okay to be critique things because it's, it's, it's from a place of love and from of these sayings and it's okay if we don't enjoy everything.

yeah. I'm going to read my note and preface it. We just talked about this in the meta episode. Disney. How are you not listening to being nice to match Kevin?

Oh. It's so funny. I'm like adding this to the list of re list of topics. I would like to discuss with Mr. Kevin, because I always joke. I'm like, I'm going to go like knock on this man's door and have a discussion of how he's traumatized me over the years, add this to the list and be like, Hey buddy, we got to have a chat. Okay. You got to have a friendly chat. And also I will be taking a couple of your

hats.

He has plenty of hats. He can, he can

spare one. We can spare at least two. Okay. Now I'm sure I've talked about this with my friends and like, you know how people have like shoo. He hasn't where they like pace really expensive shoes, sneakers, whatever they meet, maybe I'm like, I wa I'm willing to bet some money that this man has a hot wall where he has all of the like hats he's worn to the premiers over the years,

I call mine.

You know what that is also another very appropriate, perfect use of a wall,

but no, you know, I was going to say last week I talked so much about how, the way cause Kate and Clint are teaching each other, right? Like Clinton is obviously hard shell. He's not opening up. Kate is showing them how to open up through the act of sincerity. So I loved how Kate was sincerely listening to the tracksuit mafia. Mafia's problems about wanting to go to the imagine dragons concert and his girlfriend not wanting to take him. I love it.

I know, right? Like we're the podcast. We're going to change our name, the podcast that feels bad for imagine dragons and like, sorry, like.

Iron man. Three is so underrated.

Oh yeah.

Literally made a tick. Talk about this, like two months ago, responding to another Cirque talk video. It is so underrated. It deserves so much more appreciation that it gets Mike. My theory is that it, Ironman three only gets the hate because of people who don't like Tony's. That's my

theory, Nick, Sandy that's in case you don't know Nick, Sandy did our theme song and I just use him as a reference when, instead of saying Mike drop, I said, Nick, Sandy. So that's why he keeps saying mixing.

I love that. As if the immediate conference, when we started this wasn't enough proof of how this is a good group of people. You're like, we did a whole episode on iron man, three, where we ended, we're either going to convert people or we're going to push people away because we just talked for like two hours about how amazing Ironman three is. It's in my top five.

Yeah.

Wow. You know what? It's there? It's not in my top five, but it's very, I like

to hear that she started backing off. She was like, okay. Okay. Let's, let's, let's tap the brakes

personally. I respect the fact that it's in your top five, but I'm like, it is such a great movie for Tony stark and it adds so many layers to his character and just the way that he's developed. Oh God, it's so good. I think it might be one of my, my favorite iron man

movie. Yeah. And Trey's going to get a message from friend Daniel through just like top five, really? Trey.

Hey, I've put it out there. I I'm sending that. One's consistent.

I know it is.

I'm curious what your number one is

it flips back and forth between winter soldier and end game. Just because the I'm a huge captain America fan. So winter soldier, obviously. Yeah, but I definitely see that. Yeah. And then shrunk sheet number three.

What an amazing movie. Amazing. That's number one for me right

now. Well, you know, circling back to this episode, there's a moment that stood out to me where Maya is asking about the specifics of Ronan and Clint tells her that black widow killed Ronan. So what did you think about that, Ellie?

I thought it was very interesting and I would say like she did kind of killed Ronan in a sense because she went searching for Clint, found him and essentially, you know, was bringing him back home, allowing him to kind of refocus and realize there's a chance we can get everyone back and kind of showing him that, you know, the life that he's going down right now is not the path to go on because she is no stranger to. Going down really going into like the assassin path.

Yeah. It's one of those scenarios. You didn't lie, but you didn't tell the truth. And so I I'm G I like physically dead just spiritually, but, uh, no, I enjoyed it. It was a great heads up play on Clint. Cause I mean, he even admits it to Kate where he was like, I almost had them disassociated the suit from you. And then you popped in from the skylight. So it's in line with him trying to throw the tracksuit mafia off Kate and I like the clever use of him telling what happened to Ronan.

I don't, I don't think I agree with you, right. Like I like, I, my, my note is black widow did kill Roden. Like I don't think of it as. Like, like, like the idea that there's a separation. Um, okay. Like, and I see what you're saying. I agree with Ellie in the sense, what you're saying of she brought Clint back, uh, for, from how lost he was. And I, I think he really did feel that like that yes, Ronan is dead. I'm able to leave that, you know? Um, yeah.

I'm trying to process through it and I'm getting increasingly aware of how silent I'm being. But yeah, I think you bring up a good point of, it's not something he wanted. Obviously he went to this character to stay dead. And so I do think he believes it, but I guess I'm coming from, he's trying to run away from this, but this is something he still has to wrestle with. Like by the time this series is over, he has to come to terms with what he did as Ronan.

Well, the thing is that he really can't run away from it. Yeah. It's something that needs to be addressed before the series is done because clearly. It's still an issue. You know, there are people looking for Ronan hit the things that he was wearing, his weapons or still around. So it's not something that he could just keep hidden and pretend like it never happened because the impact was still there. It's still in play.

I had a question that just came to mind, but I'm going to save it. Okay. Because I feel like I'd be jumping way ahead. Okay. Okay. I'm saying that out loud and I'm typing it down. Yeah,

please. Don't forget. Cause I'm really curious what this question

is. Yeah. We'll uh, we'll pull the pin on that. So, you know, one thing I'm going to highlight a bounce Clint here, because I mean, this whole episode is about. Kate and Clint like solidifying their comradery and how they work together. You know, we're still in the early stages of it. So there's some push and pool, but there's one thing that I absolutely loved here at the beginning is you see, Kate is starting to get shook from everything that has happened.

I really loved that moment between them because it kind of reminds me of almost like me with my friends. And if any of us have like any sort of like hesitations or being like questioning, doing something it's like, Hey, I remember when you were overly confident in this situation, like channel that energy into this. So I really loved that moment because we've seen Kate. Like she is a very confident person, especially when she puts her mind towards her.

Well, and he had an amazing amount of trust in her to, you know, escape and say, get ready for my, um, my signal. Um, and you know, that trope is very typical, but. For those characters. He, Clinton had to have an amazing amount of trust that she was capable, you know, cause he wasn't really close to her when he shot the arrow. And so it wasn't like, Hey, I'm here to save you. I'm your overconfidence. And let's go, you know, uh, which was really cool.

that is a really good call back. Actually. I feel like with Clint, he almost like adopts people. He's like, okay, like let's get into like dad mode. I have faith in you. You've got this. Like you're stronger than you think. And he gets that bit of, he like really brings in that support to ensure that like they also know that they're very capable of their skills.

Yeah.

So, you know, we're still in this section of the track and field. Uh, and I feel like one of the major thing that we've got left is the amazing sequence of their escape, all the way to their, uh, subway entrance. Um, our train entrance, I should say, I want to start here.

my

gosh. Right? And the thing with like, Clint's arrows are you, you never know when it's going to, cause it's not just a regular arrow. It's not, it could, again, like we see his wide array of arrows in during this sequence. So it's like, okay, he shoots the arrow and it's like, okay, what's going to happen. Is there going to be an explosion? Like, is it normal? And I'm just going to get kind of stabbed by it is Pedy going to come out? Is it going to feel, be filled with acid and you never know.

You know what? I you're mentioning that. Cause I, in Avengers he had like this little dial thing that would change the Arrowhead. If you remember, like he would, he would, and it would kind of rotate and attach arrows. And it's just really impressive that he, just to me, I mean, just if I'm immerse myself and this is real, like it's an, a quiver and you're like, remember which one, when you're grabbing that fast, cause you grabbed the wrong one in the right situation. That's a problem.

Well, you know, while we're on the topic of these different arrows or I should say Kate going through all these arrows, it's very reminiscent of Peter when he's going through the training protocol and learning one, all his suit can dear. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And like we established it last week. We are really these last two episodes in a row, in a row. We're seeing how comparable Kate Bishop and Peter Parker are.

determination. Yeah. A lot of appreciation for it. Yeah.

The question is not, is Kate skilled because we know she is eats the wisdom that Clint's bringing, because it's not enough that she can make the shot. You see where we're, Clint's like, Hey, take these acid arrows hit the traffic lights and that's how they caused the destruction. So through action, we're seeing how Clint is after being worn down, I guess is finally teaching Kate how to be a better, you know, Hawkeye. And so I love how the action is communicating this and this scene.

Well, it's interesting. I thought of him as like black widow and Yulaina a little bit only, only because like, well, you mentioned like the same thing with Spiderman where she's like trying and not learning. It's just, it just, she was super capable, but it didn't have, uh, or, or Kate didn't have the flat. That I kind of like Huck, I guys it poser. He does that little sideways flip thing. And the, and the I'm gonna throw the small jab right here.

One thing that I want to take away, because there's so much that could be said about the sequence, but the whole point of it is that we're seeing Kate and Clint work together. This is finally the moment where they're learning that they can be a compatible team. And so one of the things that I like that they've done specifically with Clint's broken earpiece is it's illustrating that struggle with the two of them in the communication and what it metaphorically stands for of the gap between them.

I have to say, I really like that thing. Cause we got that clip. They gave us that clip like beforehand and they were speaking to each other clearly. But then in the episode we finally understood that are, you know, Clint didn't have his earpiece. Like he couldn't actually hear her. So when she was speaking to him, we got those muted sounds and it was like, oh my God, like it just added so much more to the scene.

Oh yeah. That the Disney plus day. Yeah. We've got that whole sequence. That's what I was. I

was like, I was trying to remember.

Yeah, she was so proud. She's like, we're communicating like, you know, right now. Not really, but didn't, but didn't in a way it was like, like you said, it was confirmed on the, on the subway. It's like who got to walk the dog? Well, you know, you're right. I

was so funny the way that she just looked at him during that scene, I was like, oh my goodness.

Well, you know, this is coming to me now, like Clint has already established the overconfidence that Kate has and it's been on display. She's a very capable and confident person. So there's something special about the way she gets that confirmation by Clint saying like, oh yeah, you are, you are a really great Archer, but he can't hear her. So it's like, it doesn't get a hundred percent confirmed, but she has that smile to herself of like, yeah, this was a good moment.

so many different action sequences come to mind, like just across the movies that we've gone. And I'm like, you could just, just devote an hour to breaking down the ones seen. Right. Because there's just so much to look at because you know, usually you, you have your protagonist, you have your antagonist, so it's like, you can speak on what each of them individually are doing. Then you can talk about what's going on in the background. You can talk about what they're utilizing in the scene.

Yeah. Well, it's Trey. What's interesting. One of the things you were saying, honestly, my first point, I'm getting a little ahead here onto the hero life. Part of the outline with all that communication and the confidence building up between the two of them. It's interesting. Cause like Kate's being successful here. Right. And she's experiencing that success and it's actually, and again, I'm getting a little ahead to this, to this point, see you on the outline, but she's experiencing the.

Well, you know what I, you bring up a great point. Let's go ahead and move into the next, most important topics so that we can go ahead and get into that fully. And like you said, this is the hero life. Uh, this section is going to be for us to discuss, uh, that diner scene where Clint is trying to impart the wisdom of what it means to sacrifice, to do the good thing, uh, as well as that very emotionally hard scene where Kate has to endure. Uh, Clint's son for Clint, since he can not hear him.

I agree. Well, cause I mean, that's such a big thing when we get a young hero too. There's so much learning that goes into it. And especially when you take someone like Kate or even looking at like Peter Parker, With the MCU. They both have the significant characters in the significant individuals in their life that they admire so much and they look up to and, but they themselves, you know, they've lived, they're trying to live that hero life.

life is. Yeah. And I just, I just want to remind everybody that you've seen winter soldier over and over, and you know, that superheroes do have breakfast. I put coffee grounds in the garbage disposal. They do all this.

Well, you know, do cause you, you, we went into this most important topic because you were talking about the Mamie wrongful affirmation of Kate's idea. You know, I, I think this dinner conversation is the perfect follow-up for that chase sequence. Because again, we now know that Kate is up to the challenge, we'd know Clint respects her, but does Kate respect the responsibility and based on the way Clint gives that heartfelt delivery of the things you lose following this life.

conversation? Well, as you say, my note here on that conversation was like, you see Clinton put his head down and I, and I did this specifically wrote it this way. Specifically Clinton puts his head down because she isn't hearing him and like there, and we've talked so much about this, this use of sound through these characters to immerse us in these experiences. And it's like, you have, don't have the struggle of hearing is Maya or Clint, but you're, you're not hearing, you're not listening.

But we're not trying to get that

deep, but it is like, like that was kind of that this conversation of like, you're, you're not hearing, you're not, you're not listening, you know, you know, so, so again, that use of sound comes up, which I, which for me, that's what I took out of that, which I really liked.

I think it, what it kind of reminded me of was in homecoming when Tony has a conversation with Peter and, you know, he says like, if you're like, if you're nothing without this. Then you don't deserve it. And it's kind of like that reminder and that push it's like you have to be more than the technology. You have to be more than the suit. You have to hone in on what being hero actually means. Because being a hero, you have to make a lot of like selfless choices.

herself. Yeah. Well, and I'm glad you brought that up and cause and homecoming rights Spiderman lost the suit and had to do it without the stark tech, his own suit himself. And my question on, on my notes here was what will Kate have to lose to take this lie? A lot, like she has it on this pedestal, what is she going to have to lose to take this life off the pedestal and, and kind of realize what you're really asking for?

How dare you.

Oh my goodness. I was thinking about

this earlier. She has to lose something, right.

I'm just mad.

You know, her dad's already assuming, or dad's already dead. I don't think they're going to, with three episodes left pool,

there was no body.

So there was no body, the classic rule. Exactly. You know, she doesn't exactly get along with her mom and let's see, like, I don't know. Like, so yeah, so I'm, I'm really curious or what they're going to do with that. Cause, cause that's what they've set up. Like he clearly in the dialogue there sacrifices, you lose things forever.

Oh man. Well, you know, there's one more thing that I want to zone in on, in this scene. And, you know, we have a pretty pivotal moment where Clint says I am not a role model. And so I think this is important because for a brief moment, it really does seem like he's warming up to this idea of taking Kate under his wing because he, I mean, I don't think you give that heartfelt. Speech about giving something up, unless you're really truly trying to teach her how to do this.

I, I want to say that his wife divorces him. If he tries to hand down the mantle to his own kid, like I'm imagining what's a honey, you know, I'm not going to be home and neither is our daughter because she's out shooting bow and arrows and bad guys. I mean, I wouldn't

blame her. I mean, she's seen what Clint has gone through and what he's faced over the years. So I'd be like, I mean, I would be like, yeah, no. Yeah. She's not going anywhere near that. Yeah.

Now to get back to your point, like I think that going back to Asia, Ultron, they've kind of set that up, right. Like it go back. Let's just, if you track Clint through age of Ultron, we find out he has the family life and this is truly like his job. He's good at his job. He believes in it. But then he goes home to his family.

That was private conversation.

But I mean, but like, you know, I mean, you want to reach this point where, you know, you get older and you think about it and it's like, do I really want to do what I'm doing forever? You know, do I want to travel? Do I want to do all these other things? So, yeah, I think you're right. Like he is. And, and there's that element of like that darker side of Ronan, he has lived the path that life can take you when it goes bad.

Yeah. And kind of like thinking about like the whole black role model situation and, you know, taking into it's like dark moment where he was Ronin. It makes cause honestly, throughout the episode, I was thinking about the moment where he shares that with Kate and Mike, like wondering like what her perception of him would be like, how she would feel like knowing the person that like she looked up to for so many years ever since 2012 was Ronan.

Yeah, I, I thought we got so close to it. This episode, when she started accusing him, like, it was so smooth the way she transitioned from like, Hey, here's a cool costume idea to, oh, what if you wore all black? Like she did that on a dime. And I thought she was about to put two and two together, but she came so close without actually doing it.

Was that intentional? The accusation? Well, yeah. Cause okay. Cause so there's, there's two ways you can look at it, right? There's there's efficient storytelling and I'm going to use the costume to kind of placate fans and kind of nod to the fans. Uh, like they're doing a Disney plus series of showing the ridiculousness of, yeah, we can't do this. Right. Um, and we've seen it in one division, you know, and, and stuff of the actual comic book accurate, except with cap Samuelsson.

Yeah. Well, it could be what we talked about. Like as dead set, as, as Clint is on finding this Ronan suit, maybe it's just something she finally drew the lines to get.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I hope they give it to us. So like, I hope that because I feel like it is really crucial for Kate to know this information and as well for Clint to just share it. And then it also brings up the question if like the entire world is going to find out about this. Cause you know, we touched on it earlier about like how the people may be Clint if they learned that he's Ronan.

Yeah. Well, I think that's going to wrap it up for this section, which is going to bring us to our last one, which is a bit of a brief one. Uh, it's a bit of a shorter episodes. There wasn't too much towards the end here, but this most important topic is breaking and entering. And this is going to deal with Kate and Clint, essentially getting into Kate's mom's apartment and going through her computer to find out more information about Kasi. Uh, and unfortunately they are caught by Jack himself.

just knew they were going to get caught. This is too easy. I was like, are you kidding me? Like, oh yeah, I'm sure it's so convenient. That absolutely nobody's home. And you're going to be able to walk on over to the computer and look up what you need to look for and then you're going to be fine. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, someone they're going to get caught off guard. Someone's going to be there waiting for

them. Yeah. Especially for us, especially for a very fancy home of someone who owns a security business.

Oh my God. All

right. Yeah. You know, I I've been on this. I think Jack is a red herring train since the first two episode drops. So I got to say, I'm feeling pretty vindicated to have Kate like clearly spell out all her evidence and it just falls completely flat on Clint. And we're just like, okay, well, that's, you know, it's not exactly a crime. It was just, it was very satisfying to see that all play out right. And, and to add, cause again, I'm on the F I'm not on the Jack train, but I am on the Eleanor.

I think there's something really, definitely off with her mum. I don't know. I'm getting, I'm getting some kind of villain vibes. Maybe it's just a feeling. Maybe it's just the haircut. I don't know. But something is a little off about Eleanor and I'm wondering if, you know, she also is, has got a bit of a secret side of her life that she has for obvious reasons, not revealed to Kate.

Yeah, I think you're dead on, on that because it's just the conversation. And the 2012 flashback was just too spot on of, of like concerns of money and are we gonna have to sell the penthouse, you know, and showing this, you know, and then she had the thing later. Like I've not always been rich, so clearly there's a drive to hold on to this. Um, so yeah, so like I I'm with you.

one. I would, I think it'd be so funny. You know what, I'm going with the assumption that we are getting kingpin, I'm just going to go kind of logic right now. I think it should be. So it's official guys, everyone listening. Um, I think it would be really funny if somehow, like she was also working with Wilson.

We never, we talk about theories. We specifically say we're holding onto grains of sand. You were in the right place. Whenever it comes to throwing out. Yes.

And, and, and in color connections like that, we also, you know, we're given, let's say, like we realize sometimes the curtains are just blue and have no meaning, but we don't

care. That's what

makes it fun.

So I like that. That's a good observation. I just thought

of that right now. I don't even kidding. I didn't even have the thought yesterday. It just, it literally just came from,

you know, what that's that happens. So many of my, my thoughts on these episodes of just like, oh, okay, cool. Let me type this down. Just realize this. Yes. That's the fun of podcasting, honestly. So I have, I, I, we put a pin in this and I was waiting for this section. Ooh, here we go. At the end, at the end of the whole scene, Rodin's faced with the Rodin sword. Yeah. If Jack becomes Ronin or his frame for Ronan would receive that as a satisfying resolution for haka. No, no, really.

getting away with it. Exactly.

Clint, doesn't it feel like that's kind of where it's going. Like he has the road sword. It, he, he feels like, you know, I guess I'm going completely against the red herring idea, but at this point it's kind of hard to hold that one on, like, you just have the road in sword of all the sores. To Rodin's throat.

I'm gonna do you one better. Why is Ronan? No, it didn't go to me for the last second. Uh, I, I think you're onto something. I think there will be a path where they can frame Ronan. I'm sorry, where they can frame Jack as Ronan. But the character moment is Clint is going to own up to it publicly. And that is how he's going to be like, no, I can't do this. This was me. Whatever comes next. I'm a toning for the sense of Ronan.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah, no, I don't disagree with that. I just I'm watching that. Th they're, they're riding themselves and out of how do you clear Kate's name? How do you clear Clint's name? Uh, at the same time. Uh, but I, I do agree with you on the, like it's not, uh, or wouldn't be a satisfying resolution, you know, unless, unless they save that for season two, we'll

say season two, work on a, get one they're bad or a

movie. Oh yeah.

I could call kind of like how with, um, Falcon, the winter soldier. No season two, but we're getting another captain America.

Yeah. Wait for that. But I also, I would love to see Haley Seinfeld's Hawkeye on the big screen and how,

yeah. It's no, it's going to, they've already been setting up for, um, young Avengers, all that whole, you guys see that interview? She got asked the question and she looked at Kevin and Kevin was just like, don't you say at work?

Yeah. Kevin snipey eyes. Oh man. Well, you know what, unless there's any more. I think we can move on to stray thoughts.

Sure. Cool. All right. Sounds good

to me. So this is the section for us to just share any straight thoughts we may have had that did not quite fit into the most important topics. Uh, so Ellie, is there any stray thoughts you have for this episode?

Anything happens to pizza dog? I'm never watching

this show. Well, you know, a lot of people agree with you on that. I am in

love with this dog. Anything happens to him.

I'm just going to fall on this sword. Jude, you did ask what does Kate have to lose? Oh,

no.

I was thinking it earlier when you guys were talking about it, you're like, oh, like, you know her relationship with her mom, there's her relationship with Clint? And in the back of my mind, I was like, there's a very adorable golden retriever that could probably have a significant impact on her life. And then I was like, do not say it out loud.

I'll fall on that sword. And you can send all your hit your Twitter. Hate to me.

Oh, trust me. I will. I'll be like, I'm like, okay, what day is it? Uh, December 2nd.

Oh boy. What a day?

Uh, what about you, dude? You got any stray thoughts or this episode?

Uh, yeah, a couple of straight thoughts. Uh, let's see. Scroll through my notes real quick. How deep was that ball pit then he was crawling around that deep before, uh, I thought another fan throughout the whole episode, but another fantastic use of Christmas music. Oh yes. Oh yes. Right from the Nutcracker. Fantastic. Oh

man. I love the Nutcracker. Um, sweet. I, oh goodness. It's so good.

I started crying during the first watch run the phone call that really got to me. Oh, And the last two I've found interesting. He says where she says the line, this is the day I become who I'm supposed to be. And Clint said he remembers that day. It did wonder the back wide with the strong push of family. If, when he said that if he was talking about being like an Avenger or shield agent, or more likely, I think he was talking about being a husband and a father.

Yeah. I got a couple straight thoughts and I'll go through and pretty quickly, there is a scene at the beginning where they're fighting, uh, specifically Clint and Maya, and we get a shot of Kate's perspective. As we see Clint and Maya fighting in the office. And you only see from through the window, there's shadows underneath that. There is a sign that says nothing held back again. Curtains are just blue, but Maya's fighting style reminds me of Natasha's a lot.

That's nice. And

finally my other stray thought, you know, it's, again, another curtain is blue thing, but so often we talk about the story circle and how the last part of it is having returned to a familiar place having changed. Uh, it's very fitting that this episode starts with Clint and Kate captured and at odds and ends with them captured again, but as more of a cohesive team. So,

yeah, that's a good, that's a good framing device. Yeah.

Yeah. So again, this episode is, is, is perfect. Uh, perfect. Strong it's it's one of

my favorites. No, no, no, no, no. Don't back off of that. Cause, cause it was that moment then I forgot to say. And the straight thought Kate getting to do the same move she saw in 2012 was a great moment. It was a great moment. Yeah. And getting to see that and get to participate in that, like, yeah. I don't back off for perfect. It's okay.

Oh, okay. I'll say it's perfect caveat being, I know there's probably recency bias, but man, I love this episode.

It's really good. It's really, really

good. Own it, own it.

Honestly, when I think about it, I'm like, okay. I only remember the Falcon and the winter soldier episode three, honestly, but like that was, I loved episode three for Falcon in the winter soldier. I felt like that was like such a moment for that show. Yeah. And also just like a strong episode overall. I might have some bias in it. I don't know. But. It kind of reminded me of that. And then it kind of like pushed me to think about Wanda vision and like low key as well.

Yeah.

Cool. I, uh, I think that's going to do it for a stray thought. So that's going to leave us with our listeners. First takes a, we're going to read through some of the responses we got on social media and how people felt about on this episode. Uh, starting with this one, uh, this one comes in from Ben dot Maddie on Insta and it says. My favorite episode of any MCU TV show so far, can I have a PIM arrow?

Oh my God. Honestly, same

with it. And I mean this in the literal sense, what a huge moment for the show. Yes.

I almost pause it cause I was like, oh my God, I'm seeing this

right. I agree with both of your first reactions and to add this is the best Clint has ever been both in terms of action and emotion TK on Instagram.

I agree. Tightly paced and written this episode has everything done. Well, action. Emotion, character from friend Daniel.

You don't want printed. We're right there with you and Ellie. I don't know if you know, Fred, Daniel is someone I've known, um, for a few years now you still work with, and so friend Daniel, Trey, and I chat, and he's been a guest a couple of times and we call him the universal friend, cause he's also been on Teekay's podcast. Um, yes. So, um, so it's fun to have his interaction. And I agreed, like, I think all three of us agree with his assessment of this, this actual emotion of the character.

Yeah. It's definitely a common theme throughout these first takes. And uh, it continues here. Uh, this one comes in from captioned life on Insta and it says best episode yet of any Marvel show. And again, like we said, I think we're all in agreement and um, shout out to caption life by the way that we've been recently interacting with them on Twitter and

podcasts. I love that.

Yeah. It's just so awesome. We just, we just got recommended their first and second episode of Hawkeye and we both thoroughly enjoyed it. So I'm so glad that again, like I said, the, uh, the pod friend list is growing. I

love the pod friend list. Favorite thing.

Uh, see, and don't back off any Marvel show, a fantastic episode for me, best fight choreography and sequence among the Disney plus shows a very tight and well-balanced episode, it hit the mark and I'm looking forward to the rest. Also pizza dog with one eye is actually just winking at us this whole time. Hashtag pizza dog from kid on Twitter.

You know what I agree? He cause he totally looks like he's winking really cute. It's my favorite thing about him. That's why I wanted, um, the, the Funko pop that came.

I didn't see the Funko pop. I put it on the discord. Oh, I missed, I missed it. I must've missed it. Okay.

Well now this is your homework

to go find the discord and see it.

Um, this was my favorite episode of the three. So far tracksuit mafia proved a bit more of a threat. The new villain shows to be a strong foil to Hawkeye and the teas. This brings me great joy also as a father that call with Clint and Nathaniel hit me hard from just Mr. Melt from Twitter. Yeah. I, again, I agree. Especially the Capitol tease that we

so good teas it's official. It's Fisk, you know, and again, I cried I'm with you. It's a very

emotional moment. Yeah, it really was.

Ah, finally, we've got one more, uh, three more. Do we have three? Oh, I'm not looking at the right thing. Yeah. You got

to scroll. You got to scroll.

Then remember when I said Jude was doing my work for me earlier. So, you know what, then I'll read this one and then we'll continue on. Uh, this one says, I love this episode and I really appreciate the representation. The person who plays Maya is actually an amputee and Def it feels like Hollywood has always been content. Just address any actor up in that. But I appreciate that they actually got someone from that community plus she's native American, which I feel like we don't see enough of.

Well, there was a second text as well, cause it's my cousin who texted me. Um, and he was also happy to see as a left-hand. Um, person was Paul. He was like, anytime I get left-handed representation, I'm all for it. I'm digging the show episode three was fun. Can't wait to hear your takes skull face project on Instagram. Okay. I have a question for you Ellie, real quick. Is it Instagram or instill? What do you say? Or as you say, I G

um, I feel like I usually say Insta. Okay. I feel like I usually say instead, I just cause it's faster, but you know, I started

asking people at work and kids that I work with. Like I like, like, I want to know it depends

on your audience. Who are you talking to? Okay. That's the kind of

candidates, Scarface project. Thank you for the interaction. Cause he also messaged us. Um, and it was fun to talk to you through that. Uh, and I, and hopefully you enjoy this episode and I agree with you. It was just such a fun episode. I think

we can all agree on that front. Ooh, last one. All right. I'm really enjoying this series. I'm grateful that Marvel is releasing these shows, but I can't wait to see this unfold on the big screen, new type dot Nova from Insta. Yeah. I have to agree. I'm excited to see it on the big stuff.

Yeah. I was going to say what a fitting one for you to end on, because you just mentioned how you were manifesting Kate being on the big screen. So yeah, I think we're also in agreement here.

It's going to, it's always fun to, I mean, cause like, I mean the shows are absolutely wonderful. The way that they've been done for the small screen. Oh, beautifully done. Yeah. But to be able to, cause I mean the real true like moment is seeing them on the big screen. So I'm excited

for that. Most definitely. Well, cool. Uh, thank you everybody for chiming in with your first takes on episode three of Hong Kong. We really appreciate it. And if you're listening and you want to get in on that as well, you can always search for our pre spoiler thoughts that we put up on the day of the episodes release. If not the day after, uh, if you reply to those, we will read your first take on the pod. Um, we're wrapping up here. We've got predictions for episode four left.

don't know if it's just an F, is this a theory or is this a want that's that's the real question. I have been waiting since episode one for my girl. Yelaina to finally make her appearance in this show. I've been waiting. I need, I need Florence Pugh. No, I need her to take some shots at Clint and based off what I feel like upset for is going to be, I think maybe. End of the episode, we'll see her face.

Nice. Well, I'm going to echo that look tres upon person. So anytime I can get it, but yeah, no, I, we don't have my camera turned on, but if we did, you would have seen my hand shot up in the air cause I'm with you. That's like I can't wait to see you later. Again, what I'm most excited about is seeing the, uh, is hopefully at some point in an extended fashion Yulaina and. Kate Bishop interaction.

Well, you know what? Speaking of, if we had cameras on, dude, whenever you were talking about, is Jack going to be framed for Roden? You could not see the biggest smile on my face because here in my predictions for episode four, I put next week, we're going to see Jack is not the villain we think he is, but he's not going to make life any easier for Kate and Clint. I think maybe Jack is in a little trouble of his own that he's going to use Kate and Clint as scapegoats.

Okay. That's a good one. Yeah. Thanks.

Yeah. Well, I think that's going to do it for this episode, Ellie. I just want to say thank you so much for coming on, which may have been the longest episode we've ever done with a first-time guest and you fit in perfectly, so much fun.

Well, thank you for inviting me. I was so excited when you messaged me on Twitter.

Yeah. W cause we were just talking about this. We haven't really had a new guest since before low-key so we were there's some first time jitters we had going into this, but it, it worked out really well and I could not be thankful enough.

Yeah. It was so much fun. Thank you for, um, I mean, how could

I not, um, I get super excited. Talking about Marvel and I'm like, I will take any opportunity to talk about with anyone.

Well, if you listening are interested in any of those opportunities, you should definitely be falling Ellie on, oh, add, oh, shoot podcast on Twitter, Instagram and Tik TOK, as well as downloading and subscribing to their show. Oh, shoot podcast available on anchor apple podcast, Spotify, and more now, as far as this show, if you enjoyed this one, you can always reach us at MC you need to know on Twitter and Instagram.

And of course, scroll down to the bottom. She can find a link to our discord where you find a wonderful community to talk about everything. I just, the other day posted my 2022 book list challenge of, uh, to read a different book a month for 2022, and hopefully have this community keep me accountable. Um, but also if you're here, you love Marvel. Same as the people in the discord.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is his rendition of Liam. And you're saying you find more of his work on a SoundCloud, which is linked in the show notes as well. That's going to do it. Thank you so much for listening and due to Nelly. Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you.

We'll see you all next week.

I think that would be a very, very interesting I'm like, maybe this is just like seriously reach reaching, but with like the tracksuit mafia and how their suits are red.

Okay. So, uh, uh, I think we may have lost Ellie.

Yeah, I don't hear. It's just

connecting.

All right. Well, uh, we'd like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is his rendition of the Avengers.

Sure. To share with a friend

what's going to suck is if Ellie can hear us and she just hears us laughing and cutting up, sorry, I was trying to make the Kevin fakie nose joke and I called him Kevin snipey

you're

not wrong dots. You know what? That's actually so funny as I'm going, working through a theory, it cuts out. He's like, he,

he knows. I know he knows.

Oh man.

So what was the last thing I said?