Too Many People

Pushkin.

What about too Many People?

Two or eight People is on an album called ram. It was at a time when John was firing missiles at me. I don't know what he hoped again, other than punching me in the face. And this kind of annoyed me. Obviously, I suddenly decided to turn my missiles on him.

I'm Paul, will do And I've been fortunate to spend time with one of the greatest songwriters of the era.

And will you look at me? I'm going on to I'm actually a.

Performer, That is sir Paul McCartney. We worked together on a book looking at the of more than one hundred and fifty of his songs, and we recorded many hours of our conversations.

Oh she'm a songwriter?

My god? Well that that crypture, homie.

This is McCartney, A life in lyrics, a masterclass, a memoir, and an improvised journey with one of the most iconic figures in popular music. In this episode, too Many People that you.

Touban now?

Can you.

Who broke up the Beatles? Was it Paul McCartney or was it John Lennon? Was it the death of manager Brian Epstein? The interference of businessman Alan Klein, or somehow the mere presence of Yogo Ono. No matter how many times this question has been asked, trying to answer it seems futile. There are many reasons why the Beatles broke up, so in this episode we won't be trying to find a definitive cause for the Beatles breakup. Instead, we will be telling the story of its aftermath.

I was keeping largely quiet about John and the Beatles sort of split up. I didn't really have many accusations to fling but he was flinging quite a few. Being John, they were quite hurtful bobs to be flinging around, and I was the body they were being flung at. So I was having to accept this.

But in a nineteen sixty nine business meeting, John Lennon met an announcement.

There was a few of us there, and he said, oh, I've been wanting to tell you this, but I'm leaving the Beatles. Well a bit shocked, it was, you know, me, George and Ringo, we're all a bit shocked.

Why why why? And I think I've told you.

I remember him saying, oh, this is quite quite exciting.

You know.

That was very John, that was sort of what you admired about John.

It was.

It was a bit of a nooney in the nicest possible way.

It was like breaking up with someone.

Yeah, and that's what he said.

It's like a divorce, and he had just had a divorce, so he was saying, yeah, you know, there's an excitement to this. And I think obviously we whilst all of us could see what he meant, those of you left in the opposite.

Side of the borderline.

It's not quite so funny.

When John Lennon announced his departure from the group, it was clear to the other three Beatles that the band was done for good.

It was such a unit and such a foursome and I don't think any of us, I mean, we joked about it, you know, we joked about forming a group called the Threetles.

That was pretty good, but you know, it was never anything more than the joke.

In that same meeting where John Lennon announced he was leaving the group, he also told his band Meds that he was set to go along with the manager Alan Klein. McCartney was resistant to trusting Alan Klein, who was already known for his mishandling of the Rolling Stones.

The whole story in an absolute nutshell because we were having a group meeting and John appeared at it and he said, I've just been to see this guy Alan Klein in the Dorchester me and Joko. He's promised Joko an exhibition up in Syracuse, and I think this guy's great. Oh and by the way, I'm leaving the group. So that was basically how all of that happened. And it was looking like Alan Clyn would have because it was three to one.

The other two went with John.

So it's looking like Alan Klein was going to own our entire mental empire, which is an idea that I was.

Not too keen on.

I just thought, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know this guy has got such a bad reputation, and good old John Johnny goes, oh, if he's that badly talked about, he can't be all bad, you know. To John, there was this kind of distorted way of thinking.

What followed was a series of lawsuits between McCartney and the rest of the band over who would control the rights to their music.

So all in all I had to I had to fight them for.

My bit of the Beatles and in actual fact for their bit of the Beatles, which many years later they kind of you.

Know, realized, realized that almost thanked me for. And nowadays, you know, people get it. They get it, and.

As I had to fight them, I think they thought, oh, you know, and felt they were the ones who were being hurt by this. But the hurt that went down during that period though, was them feeling hurt, me feeling hurt. But John being John, John would be the one who would want to write a hurtful songs his kind of bag.

You know.

I don't believe in Peters.

I just believe in me.

In his nineteen seventy song God, Lennon announced the end of the Beatles dream Dreams Over.

What can I say?

And to publicize the release of his new album, he was interviewed by Rolling Stone Fonder and publisher Yan Winner.

I no longer believe in in myth, you know, and Beatles is another myth. I don't believe in it. The dream's over, you know. And I'm not just talking about the Beatles as though, I'm talking about the generation thing.

You know.

The dreams over like it's over, you know, and we got to well, I have any of you personally got to get down to so called reality.

John would do it in some of the songs. He was writing some of the comments about how the Beatles did nothing.

It was rubbish, The Beatles was crap.

And you know I told you Yoko Saint Paul never did anything. All he did was book the studio.

It looks so awful. When I said I don't like this and I don't like that, it's just that I wouldn't you know. I don't like many of the Beatles records either. You know, my own taste is different from that which I've played sometimes, which is called cop out to make money over whatever or because I didn't know any better.

So I'm having to read all this stuff and I'll there one hand, they.

Go, oh, fuck off, your fucking idiot, and that's my main sentiment.

But on the other hand, it's like, what why would you say that?

Why would you want to be? What is it about me?

Like you're annoyed at me or you're jealous or what is it?

You know?

And John had all of those emotions wrapped up into a ball of lenon is.

That in too many people? His nineteen seventies version of a disc track, McCartney made a veiled response to Lennon's harsh comments.

I meant, I think literally people sort of grabbing for a piece of the cake, a slice.

Piece of the pie, also the apple.

Yeah exactly. Yeah. So I think that because it had all been just a little bit weird and a bit nasty, I was just basically saying, let's be sensible, let's be peaceful. Let's you know, we we've we had a lot going and what's actually split us up is.

The business stuff.

That's pretty pathetic, really, so let's try and be peaceful.

Weird.

I think it was quite mild, but the idea of too many people preaching practices was aimed at him and yoga telling everyone what they.

Ought to do.

You should do this, should do that, And I just got fed up being told what to do. So I wrote the song, and it was you made your first mistake, you know, you took your lucky break and broke it in two. Was me basically saying, you've made this break, so.

Good luck with it. But I say it was pretty mild.

I didn't really come out with any savagery. The first person and the chorus was basically that was all the anger I could muster. And when I did the vocal one of the second line, too many reaching for a piece of cake. I remember singing it, and if you listen to it, it says, piss off cake, too many people reaching for a piss off cake.

Many reading.

I was just getting back at him, but I wasn't really in it many.

Lucky.

Despite the mild nature of the insults in too Many People, Lennon was fired up and responded with the song how do You Sleep on his nineteen seventy one album Imagine.

Yes, I understand some of the stuff he was doing. He actually had Alan Klein and Yoko in the room suggesting lyrics. So all you ever did was yesterday, apparently, was Alan Clein's suggestion.

Wow.

So John McCay, hey, hey, great, put that in. And I can see the joy in the fun and the laughs they had doing it. But I've got to work very hard to not take this too seriously. But in the back of my mind, I'm going, wait a minute, all I ever did was yesterday. Yeah, well, it's funny, it's funny pun But all I ever did was yesterday. Let him be Long Wining Road, Elean repe Lady Madonna,

But the party line of Paul is also tolling the party line.

You know, this is our position here, and we're fixed in that position.

Basically, all of these things were just whether they were actually physically right, whether John and Joko slept in late or not. Yeah, they were all veiled references to people thinking that the only truth is their own truth, which is what was coming from John and Yoko. And you know the thing is it was crap. War is over. Well, no it isn't. But I get what you're saying. War is over if you want it. So if enough people want war to be over, it'll be over. I'm not

You know, that's a song that has a particular purpose.

Too many people.

Yeah, for better or worse it is, you know, getting back. That's not really a feature of your songs much, is it.

No, I don't do that much.

And Jesus.

Well, McCartney's lyrics were more often about love than competition. He enjoyed Lennon. Both wrote many songs with the intention of impressing or even upstaging one another.

That was the.

Nature of all competitiveness. And we're both very upfront about that. You know, if you'd write a good one, I'd feel like that to write a better one.

You know.

That is a very very common phenomenon, very understandable one.

It's also a great.

Thing because it's inspiration, you know, it's it's motivation.

If you've got someone who you respect who comes up with something rather good.

Sure it happens to everyone totally.

You know, you'll suddenly see so and so's new poem and think, hmm. You don't necessarily have to tell anyone no, but in your own private mind you just think, well, I could do that.

There's no doubt this friendly competition contributed to the beatles prolific output. After the band's disintegration, However, the competition between McCartney and Lennon was no longer about who could write a more catchy chorus or skillful bridge. It was about who could fling the most hurt Here again is how do you sleep.

Those e.

Mis sake?

You gotta remember I sued him in court.

I sued my friends from Liverpool Lifeline friends in court. So there's a lot of getting over that has had to be done.

As much as too many people represented McCartney on the attack, it wasn't aligned with his natural disposition. Six months later, he made an attempt at appeasement in Dear Friend, a song from his nineteen seventy one album Wildlife.

Dear Friend, what's the time? Is this really the boer? Does it really mean so much?

Do you?

I mean?

Why is this argument going on?

You're afraid?

Is it because you're afraid of something?

Oh? Is it true?

Are you afraid of the split up? Are you afraid of me doing something without you?

Dear friend?

Through the word.

I mad love with a friend of mine?

Are you afraid of the consequences of this?

Who knows newly?

And then the little rhyme is or is it true? You know?

Is it true?

Is all these hurtful allegations true?

Ah, is it true?

I was aware of the McCartney Lenon feud as it was happening, and I heard these very public arguments in the songs. But I've always wondered if there was indeed a form of reconciliation. Did Lenon ever listen to Dear Friend?

I would think he did.

Yeah, I would think he listened to my records, you know, when they came out.

Did they ever respond to this in particular?

No? No, that was not his way.

You know, we were guys, and it's not it's not like a boy and girl. It's like it's a guy and guy. It's a boy and boy, and you don't, you know.

You don't.

Those days, you didn't release as much emotion with each other, did.

What's the time.

Even if Lennon never explicitly addressed McCartney's olive branch, the two did find their way back to one another.

Means so much.

Some years later, Lennon even admitted that the anger and lyrical attacks and songs like how Do You Sleep were directed more towards himself than towards McCartney. Eventually, they were able to put the hurt and negative feelings behind them and moved forward with their friendship.

It was super, super painful, and there was a lot of navigation of emotions to be done, a lot of hurt to be sailed around, but we did it, and you know, in the end was something I was very glad of when he got.

Murdered, was that I had had.

Some really good times with him before that happened. It would have been the worst thing in the world for someone like me. Had he'd just been killed and we still had bad relationship, I would have just thought, oh, I should have, I should have, I should have, I should have. That would have been a big guilt trip for me. Luckily, you know, we were friendly and we talked about how to bake bread.

It seems like Paul McCartney's adoration for his childhood friend has only deepened over time. In twenty twenty two, on his Got Back tour, McCartney surprised his audience by bringing Lennon back on stage. Turning away from the crowd, he looked up at a video of his old friend projected on a giant screen behind him, and together they sang I've got a feeling, their contrasting voices washing over the crowd.

Back to the top of the slot where stop.

Go right till I get to the past.

All an innocent carnival ride gave birth to heavy metal.

Do you don't you?

Hmmm, tell me.

Tell me.

McCartney. A Life in Lyrics is a co production between iHeartMedia n p L. And Pushkin Industries.