¶ Intro / Opening
Shea, you are a autistic self-advocate, a developer. You're a tech lead at HubSpot. We're here to talk about something that matters to you and your story behind it.
To me, the subject of autism and neurodiversity are things that are super close to my heart. Me being autistic, most people don't believe that I'm autistic. They're like, no, there's no way. You don't look autistic. There's no, I, know
¶ Shattering Stereotypes About Autism
somebody who isn't. They don't act anything like you and when I think about shattering stereotypes, shattering expectations, the number one thing that comes to my mind and what matters to me is telling my perspective, telling my story about autism, but not, turning off or not putting down other people's perspectives of autism that are all valid. Because if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. And just because I act, behave, or communicate.
In one way, being autistic, that doesn't mean that how other people who are autistic is suddenly invalid or wrong because autism has a lot of different representations, appearances. I happen to be a good communicator, but I do have sensory issues and some social issues with how my brain works and operates with the world around me. But communicating, articulating my thoughts is not one of those issues, but for some people. That can be the biggest issue.
Some autistic people are nonverbal and rely on a tablet, like an iPad or an Android tablet to communicate with the world around them. Whether they are, typing things out, if they have icons that, or sounds that represent their emotions or how they're feeling. Different autistic people have the ability or lack an ability to communicate the way that you and I are talking right now and what, matters to me about that. Is saying, Hey, like I am one person. This is my story.
But there are infinite numbers of possible stories of autistic people who are out there, and no one of them is more or less invalid or valid than the next. We are all unique individuals with unique sets of support needs, unique strengths, and a uniqueness about us throughout the world
¶ Shea's Personal Journey with Autism
that we live in. So how did you come into that? So what, how and when were you first diagnosed? I was diagnosed at two years old. I had many support services in school. I had IEP, sp, physical therapy, speech therapy, occupational therapy, psychiatrist. I had everything. And when I was younger, I wasn't really like self aware of myself. I was struggling with things and I had a hard time articulating them.
But it wasn't until I became a senior in high school that I started to find my voice to be able to articulate when something in my environment was causing me discomfort or to be dysregulated and from senior year of high school, when I went to Cornell University, I started to really become much more aware of these are environments, or this is a situation where I feel like I'm okay, I can thrive, or other places where I might be struggling or having a difficult time.
Being able to balance my emotions or balance what I am
¶ The Importance of Self-Advocacy
feeling. And that was important to me to be able to find my voice, and not only that, but be able to talk about how my brain was operating and what other people could understand because I think I. It's one thing to have the words in my mind that I understand and it's never for other people to be able to hear you and be able to do something about it.
If I say this, if I'm going to a party with somebody and I say, Hey, like I need to step out to catch a breath of fresh air, I'm not feeling comfortable. That's an easy thing for them to understand. It's rarely a question that if I needed breath of fresh air, and that could be for any number of reasons. Autism does not have to be one of those reasons.
Anyone also, right?
Exactly and it could be with a complete stranger, Hey, I have to give breath of fresh air. I have to go outside for a walk. Great. No scrutiny. But if I am having a hard time being able to point to something or identify something in my environment as the source of my stress or source of my dysregulation, it becomes harder for myself or for anybody to do something about it. Whether it is, remove myself from the environment, adjust the environment, make some sort of change.
It's harder to make a change if I don't know what has to be changed, and some of those changes are easier than others. Sometimes it's just leave the environment. If it was as easy as that all the time, everything would be easy, but it's not always that straightforward. So
where does the education piece come in? So you started out talking about how you wanted to educate. When did you first realize that's something that you wanted to do?
¶ Educating Others About Neurodiversity
When I started talking to people about my own autism around me, I realized that by and large, most people have a significant lack of understanding of autistic people, and not just autistic people, but anybody with a disability. I think. For me, the idea of becoming more inclusive and more accessible is a universal problem.
Everybody at some point in their lives is going to either have a disability or will be very close to somebody who is, and they will be affected by that, whether they realize it or not. Whether you break your leg and you're on crutches, that's accessibility. You will not be able to take the stairs or go up a steep hill. You need an escalator, you need a ramp, you need something to help you move around and people don't.
Always understand this and what I've been doing for the last couple of years is educating people in ways that they understand that, in ways that are actionable to them, not just me telling people.
This is about me, but going a step further, this is why it matters because you already have employees at your company who are neurodivergent, who have disabilities and may be struggling to express their needs, express their concerns, because they don't feel as though they have the environment within which they can do that. And over the last couple of years, I've been really focusing on that, helping companies understand. Not just why this matters, but how you can actually do something about it.
Empowering decision makers and empowering non-decision makers to become stronger allies and advocates and decision makers in this regard. Because I think some people, always want to do something, but not everybody can do something, and so what can't you do if you can't do a whole lot?
What are the common misconceptions that companies or individuals might have?
¶ Common Misconceptions About Autism
The biggest thing that I've encountered personally is like a one size fits all model. That every autistic person has the exact same set of needs and needs the exact same set of accommodations. My, support needs are much more interpersonal, I would say, like how I communicate with my team, with my manager, with people around me, and just.
Part of that is me being able to self-regulate others is them having an awareness of how I articulate things might be a little bit different than how what they're expecting. and that applies to people who are neurodivergent too. Not everybody who has ADHD has the exact same set of characteristics or support needs. The ADHD can appear in different ways. Same for dyslexia, same for anxiety or depression or other things.
Under neurodiversity, everything is a little bit different and lumping people all into one bucket and saying, these are all the same kind of person does significant harm to what the needs of neuro divergent and people everywhere.
And there's so many undiagnosed out there. Even on my, TikTok feed and Facebook feed. I, constantly see people, adults who are recently diagnosed and probably going through a similar experience.
What's great about where we are in time
today Yeah.
is that the science is getting better. Costs are coming down for people to get a diagnosis. There's more access to that.
¶ The Role of Social Media and Community
And there's also a greater social awareness of that for social media. My social media is filled with people who talk about neurodiversity very candidly and plainly. 20 years ago when I was growing up, there was still a lot of mystery to neurodiversity and the world was not as well connected as it is today, and I think.
Had I had like more autistic friends growing up, I might have grown up differently than how I did right now because I would've had broader access to people who I could have empathized, whoever could have emphasized with me. That was something that I wish that I'd had growing up and did not have as much of.
But I'm really happy that Loretta Virgin kids today are able to much more easily find comradery and empathy and understanding from others who know what they're going through and can be very specific about it.
Absolutely. thanks for sharing your, story, Shea. Is there anything else that you'd wanna add?
Number one thing is just if you see somebody here struggling who needs help, who doesn't know what's going on, just be there. Be present. Be an ally, and just ask them, what can I do to help you? Because you never know what you're gonna hear.
Thank
¶ Speed Round: What Matters to Shea
you. All right, so let's get to the speed round. And so the speed round, I'm gonna list out some topics. They're actually all Wikipedia topics, so they have to be a certain format and you're gonna say matters. Meaning the topic has, it is on your radar. It has some importance to you right now and not matters. it's not really on your radar. It's not it's that it's bad and you're, it's not, doesn't matter to somebody.
It just doesn't matter to you at this moment or just skip and try not to skip too much because if you think about it, please, things either really matters or not matters. Skip is more for you don't really know what that is or you're not sure you wanna think about it, that kind of a thing.
Sure.
So ready? Here we go. Cornell University,
matters.
Skiing.
Matters.
Running
Matters.
Coffee,
Doesn't matter.
Sushi,
Doesn't matter.
Autism
Matters.
Education,
Matters.
Artificial intelligence,
Matters.
Virtual reality,
Doesn't matter.
Climate change,
Matters.
Tariffs.
Matters.
Remote work,
Doesn't matter.
Legos,
Doesn't matter
Pizza.
Matters. I'm making out tonight for dinner.
Are you a thick pizza or thin pizza?
Whatever My wife prefers, sometimes she has different preferences,
Cooking.
Matters.
What else? pickleball.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't, so you, are you a big runner?
Yes.
Is it like long distance or just on the treadmill, or
we did the Boston 5K last weekend. They changed the course and now the Boston 5K ends at the marathon finish line, which is really cool. and we're doing a half marathon this weekend with a bunch of friends.
Congrats. is there any topic that I should have asked you, matters or not matters?
I think you nailed them all.
Anything you wanted to talk about? Why?
why? I think the virtual reality one is interesting. I think it's cool and it's gimmicky and it's exciting. It's just not like ubiquitous in our lives just yet. It's, not at the level of chat GPT and the iPhone and the smartphone where everybody's using it.
I think it has the potential to get to that level, but it's not like palm of your hand level yet, like chat GPT and smartphones are, and until it gets to the point where it's easy, powerful, and cheap people to use, it's not going to get anywhere.
IActually, Shea, I totally agree with that. I have. A Vision Pro, I have a, Meta Quest and the Vision Pro is just mind blowing, but it's super heavy and the software is amazing, but there's just not a lot of content yet. But it's just not far off where two, three years from now, it'll be ubiquitous, or at least it'll be more useful.
If they could get it to the level of smartphone pricing and like form factor. If it was a sort of thing where like people could have it in their pocket, that would, I think blow things out of the water for manufacturing and like cost of goods. I just don't think anybody's cracked that just yet. I think like AR is a little bit better. I think. Like my brother works for Meta and he has the meta ray bands glasses, which are pretty cool.
And I played with those before and that I think is a little bit less gimmicky, a little bit more practical, but it's the kind of expensive, like $500 for a pair of sunglasses. Not what I'm gonna spend in the moment. But it's, cool. It's interesting. It is more practical than VR for
now. Totally, agree. Totally. Great to meet you Shea. Let's stay in touch. Okay.
Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this.
Congrats on everything.
Thank you. See you soon.
bye bye.
