JPMorgan’s Melissa Smith on Middle Market Banking

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Masters in Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.

This week on the podcast, I have yet another extra special guest. Melissa Smith is co head of Commercial Banking for JP Morgan.

Previously, she was co head of the bank's Innovation Economy Group.

Really fascinating because she sees the world from a very unique perch. Has incredible access to every aspect of both commercial and investing banking that a small startup or medium sized company and by medium I mean up to two billion dollars in revenue might need, and that gives her this really incredible set of insights into how these companies are growing, what they need, what direction various industries are

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Well, thank you for being here. Let's talk a little bit about your background before we work up to JP Morgan. Bachelor's in political science from American University and then you get a master's in public policy from University of Chicago, not the traditional path for people in finance.

What was the original plan?

So I definitely thought that I was going to work in the public sector. When I'm recruiting at JP Morgan, I always get the question sort of how did you get into investment banking? And I would love to tell people I had a grand plan. I didn't really have a grand plan. But my policy degree was at University of Chicago, so it was very heavy econ and stats and basically the same core curriculum as the business school.

So that makes a lot of sense. But before you got your master's in public policy, you have a little bit of a different professional experience. You began ballet at age four and dance professionally for how many years?

For three years?

Tell us about that that is not the usual path to Wall Street.

Definitely not so. Yes, I started taking ballet at a very early age.

That was my.

Original career aspirations. Starting in seventh grade. My poor mother drove me one hundred and twenty miles round trip every day to Washington, d C.

To go to ballet where I was from.

Left school early at noon, kind of got home at nine or ten at night every night, and so, you know, quite frankly, my parents were sick of driving me. So I graduated from high school year early in order to dance and sort of continue my dance training and then dance professionally before I went to college. And my again,

I know people who were pretty far along that same process, and as they've gotten older, they talk about like they sound like old football players talking about injuries, their ankles, their toes, their caves, their knees. I'm like, wait, no, no, you guys are just dancing and they laugh when you say that.

What was your experience like with that?

I mean, it was an amazing experience in that it teaches you such a huge amount of discipline and you know, takes determination, perseverance and kind of grit. You know, just back to there's very few people who sort of make it. You are in a sort of a siloed world because all you do every day is dance. Is kind of how I describe it. And I would also say, you know, I can have this debate with people all day long. I think there is no greater form of athlete than

And your comment about perseverance and grit, those are personality characteristics. I don't know you know whether to call them skills or not, but that will help you no matter what you do. Absolutely absolutely, So ballet to college to grad school. How did you stumble into JP Morgan?

So again, did not have a grand plan at the time that I was in Policy School at Chicago. JP Morgan's public finance team recruited specifically at the policy school.

See where that leads me.

And lo and behold, you know, have been at JP Moore in to your point, you know, twenty plus years.

Now, that's amazing.

So you start as an associate, You're focused on debt? Yes, was there an interest in debt? Was that just related to public policy?

So I started in public finance, which is back to that's why they were recruiting in the policy, So taxes and bonds for municipalities. I did that for about a year and a half, two years, and then I moved in to deck capital markets for corporates, so kind of an easy transition taxes and bonds to a corporate bonds. And then I spent you know, the majority of my earlier career, the first sixteen years of my career in the investment bank in debt capital markets.

And just for the youngsters listening, twenty five or so years ago, high rated municipal tax free bonds were yielding five six percent maybe more, maybe more. Just those were the before we start where I guess we're only halfway through our forty year rate cutting cycle.

You could get tax re yield.

At seven percent imagine and a rated not jump.

Imagine what that was like totally all right, So so you.

Go from public finance, how did you evolve towards cohad of innovation economy?

So was in a decent deck capital markets? I like to say I grew up in deck capital markets, which, as an aside, I think that was such a great experience because you know, in DCM you're sitting on the trading floor, right. Loved being in that environment because I think it fosters learning so much more quickly. I literally sat next to the managing director that I worked for and listen on all the client calls and sort of you understand much more quickly how to handle specific situations.

I got a lot of questions for you about Europe, but we'll so back to that later. I'm looking at my own handwriting twenty two or twenty seven years?

Is that twenty.

Seven years you've been there?

I think it's twenty six so going on twenty so going on twenty seven now I feel old.

So it's not.

Well, what's more fascinating is and you started when you were, you know, seventeen, so there got a big deal. But you know, that's relatively rare these days to be at any one firm for quarter plus century. What is so special at JP Morgan? What's kept you there for so long?

Sure?

So first I would say you will actually find many senior people at JP Morgan who have been there for twenty years plus, and I think that is obviously a great testament to the culture that we have at the firm. Secondly, I would say JP Morgan is a large place, clearly, and what that means is there are multiple lines of business with many different things that you can do over

In some instances maybe I shouldn't say that the way.

But and so I think what's cut me there is, you know, a just the opportunity to do many different things, learn about many other aspects of the business. And two, you know, obviously you know very much appreciate kind of the culture and environment at JP Morgan kind of back to that's why people stay there for so long. It's a very team morek oriented environment. You know, we like to quote JP Morgan first class business in a first

So let's talk about your dual role, your your cohead of Innovation Economy and your head of specialized industries. Tell us what each of those roles encompass.

Sure, so our specialized Industry's business sits within our our middle market business, and just to define that middle market sort of means in the commercial banking, right, so anything from kind of a very early stage startup to a company that's up to two billion in top line revenue, so kind of a very wide wide readmit.

If you will.

About half of that business is the industry business that I run, So I have nineteen different industry teams, so bankers that are experts in those specific industries to provide obviously coverage to clients in those industries. And I would just say, I mean, we are just a big believer in the the you know, better coverage and better that we can much better serve a client when our bankers

Well, let's talk a little bit about that. I'm familiar with a lot of the companies that vcs tend to back. But one of the things that we've been noticing very obviously over the past few years is the amount of not venture income, but either private equity or private debt. How does that play out in the companies you're servicing.

Absolutely two really important trends.

So I would say so within the innovation economy, to your point, a lot of the companies tend to be VC backed, but there definitely is growing growing sort of crossover into into growth equity funds. I think in the middle market commercial banking business as a whole, there has been a ton of activity from the financial sponsor community, so a ton of consolidation of those middle market businesses. And when you just look at sort of the levels of activity, like what are sponsors buying, it is within

We can sort of do it all.

So let's talk about that, because you know, part of your job description is delivering a cohesive banking experience to fast growing companies. So the two different divisions that you're running head or cohed innovation Economy and specialized industries obviously have to work together. What other divisions at JP Morgan are you collaborating with?

Sure?

I would say just generally we collaborate across the firm and everything that we do. So the commercial bank is very broadly speaking, regardless of industry, regardless of what aspect of the commercial bank we're talking about. We're constantly working with our partners in the investment bank when companies need obviously excuse me, strategic capital raising M and a advisory whatever the case may be. So we're constantly kind of

So bankers on my.

Team, on the Innovation Economy team are serving those portfolio companies right But at the same time we're working with our colleagues and asset management and the private bank who bank the VC firms themselves and bank the VC partners and the founders for their private wealth needs.

So our objective is to deliver sort of.

All the needs of the ecosystem, and that's why sort of by definition, we're always working across lines of business.

So really what you're saying is from a checking account up to a secondary financing, private debt, up to an IPO and even beyond that if there's an acquisition or a merger. You guys are full service not only commercial bank, but investment bank.

There really is in any space that you.

Guys can't play in and service exactly what a fast growing startup needs exactly.

You said it perfectly, and as I often like to say, we serve companies from startup to IPO and beyond, and so you know, again, we believe we're really one of the few firms who can actually serve every.

Need of these companies. And again they're the founders themselves.

Huh. Really really interesting thing.

So let's talk a little bit about middle market banking. You referred earlier the definition of middle market banking as up to two billion in revenues.

Top line running.

So that's this is not a little These are not all little companies. That's a two billion in revenue is a pretty decent sized company.

Absolutely, and again we have teams focused on the smaller size.

What we call emerging middle market.

So think about that's kind of twenty million to one hundred million in top line revenue, innovation economy doing the high growth, you know, VC backed startups, and then a bunch of different industries obviously within kind of that broader commercial banking universe and bankers that are focused simply on one hundred million and plus in top line.

Revenue's that's really interesting. And we've talked earlier about the role of venture banking in this Where does that fit in, Where does venture capital fin into startups, and where does venture banking fit in as companies get a little.

Larger generally speaking, And our objective is to really become the company's primary operating bank and trusted advisor from the very beginning, right, And so as an example of that, we now have a startup banking team that actually covers companies at pre seed and seed stage, so oftentime, could be before they've even raised an institutional.

Round of capital.

And at that point in time, their needs are very sort of simple, if you will, right, They need a bank account, they need to pay their employees, they need to have a way to sort of collect funds. They may need a credit card, just very simple banking needs, and then obviously as the companies you know continue to grow, those needs become more complex over time, including the need to either raise additional capital and whether that be from a venture capital fund or whoever that may.

Be coming from.

They may need some debt financing, and sort of on and on and on in terms of what they ultimately need to achieve their objectives and kind of become the company that they want to become.

So what's the split between the companies you work with that are VC funded, that are private equity backed, or just bootstrapped by the founders themselves.

So I would say again it very it would very significantly depending on the industries that we're talking about. But I if just we focus on the innovation economy business specifically, the vast majority of those are going to be VC backed. As I mentioned, of course, you know sort of the crossover if you will, between growth of equity and VC. The lines continue to get blurred, But I would say about twentysh percent of the business is sort of PE

Bootstrapping still goes on, or is that.

It does again?

And you see that you know, certainly at the sort of preceed and seed stage and then but I would say it's still it's a minority, right of the larger companies within the innovation economy.

So I'm thinking about their balance sheet, what's the split between how much is equity, how much is debt or do you do a combination of debt and equity?

What does this look like today?

Yeah?

No, absolutely so Again, the whole purpose of having a partner like JP Morgan is that a we can sort of help the companies think through what the optimal capital structure is and back to sort of the point of we're sort of product agnostic, depending on what the company choose to do. Most of these companies that are high growth VC backed in what we call the innovation economy business tend to still be pre profit, right. They're growing

Yeah, and I'm assuming you're not involved in angel rounds or very early seed stuff, which kind of leads me to what sort of criteria does your team use when you're trying to figure out, Hey, is this an early stage company that we want to have a banking relationship.

Can we be value add to them?

Or they still too novel, too green, no business, no revenue, Like, how do what sort of corterity do you use it?

So I think about it as as quite as a pyramid. So there is a lot that we can do for companies across, you know, all stages of their life cycle. But when you're talking about the very earliest stages back to they have fairly simplistic needs, right, and so we want to be able to bank and can bank as many of those companies as possible, assuming that you know, there's we don't find anything from a reputational risk perspective or something or an industry that we think is challenging.

So those are sort of the types.

Of things that we're thinking about when we think about which of those companies that are sort of credit worthy for us to be lending to and obviously support them to again get to the next roundcap really interesting.

So I have a recollection of the era following the dot com ramp up and then the crash in two thousand and it felt like a lot of the major banks had moved up market, like the middle market was kind of abandoned, so and lots of private equity seem to have filled that gap. So kind of fascinated that a giant bank like JP Morgan is addressing that same market segment that generally people seem to have feel like the bigger Wall Street banks have abandoned. You're telling me you're focusing in that.

Space absolutely, because I think, and i'll again kind of focus on two segments, if you will, kind of just the broader commercial banking business and then the innovation economy of business. Specifically, when you think about the broader commercial banking business, right, so not just high growth VC backed companies,

Responsibility right for us to serve those businesses.

I think on the innovation economy side, just back to how I mean when you look at the disruption going on across every industry today and the innovation, JP Morigan clearly wants to be there to support those founders with

Have any expertise in tech. Right, they cover all industries.

So back in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, we put in place sort of a dedicated team of bankers. At that

So you mentioned earlier that you're expanding geographically. We'll talk about international in a few minutes, but let's stay in the United States for a bit. I think of JP Morgan down on Wall Street, very New York based. What geographies have you been expanding to. What parts of the country seem to be very fast growing these days?

Sure?

Well, so I would just say today our commercial banking business, you know, is in the eighty five you know, fastest growing top sort of msas across the country. We have one hundred and twenty five offices across the country, two thousand plus bankers across the country. A big part of that expansion over really the last decade has been sort of California in the West coast overall, where we prior to the Wallmu acquisition didn't have a ton of sort of like retail presence and or sort of boots on

What about down south places like Charlotte or Nashville, or Texas or Florida.

Absolutely, I mean when you look at again kind of depends on the industry, but when you look at the innovation economy business and kind of where some of the newer markets are. From a VC funding perspective, you are seeing a lot of growth in you know, the Phillies of the world, the DC's of the world, you know, San Diego. I mean, certainly there's still like a huge, huge concentration in kind of you know, the Bay area and then kind of New York Boston area. But there

So let's talk international. You spent was it a year in London?

Three years?

Three years?

Yes, So you're an old hand there you go dealing with Europe. So let's talk a little bit about what's happening in the UK and what's going on in Europe. How do you look at those markets? Can you play in those spaces? Tell us a little bit about what the work is like there.

Sure, So I would say from a commercial banking perspective, we definitely support companies globally, and I do think that's again one of JP Morgan's competitive advantages. As earlier stage companies are looking to expand internationally, we can support them across you know, basically any market they're gonna they're going to across, you know, both Amya and a PAC. So yes,

Huh really really interesting. What percentage of your business is international? I can't imagine JP Mugan feels like it's so dominant in the US. What's the perception like overseas?

How is it?

So, I would say for our commercial banking business. So let me separate this out of a moment. So again, the commercial banking business the US is serving US headquarter companies, but when they have a European sub or an Asian sub, that clearly is a smaller percentage of the company's overall revenue. So a smaller percentage of like the revenue that we

It is clearly, clearly well established here for hundreds of years.

Hundreds of years, and we've been in Europe and Asia for hundreds of years. Investment banking hundreds of years is maybe a strong word, but for many, many, many decades from an investment banking perspective. But the build out of the commercial bank supporting smaller sized companies in those markets is newer seven, seven or eight years ago, and.

That's a white space that's got to be wide open.

Now, absolutely absolutely, and again we're finding great traction because there is so much obviously, as we all are well aware, economies and companies operate in such a global fashion today that a company sitting in Europe obviously has generally speaking plans to expand in other parts of the globe, the US being a huge market, particularly across tech and consumer facing businesses, et cetera, So that connectivity is important.

And you said earlier from checking to IPO, how do you think about the IPO market which has been so quiet the past few years. We really haven't seen a lot of companies coming public. How do you view this, When might that change and how does this impact your business?

Sure, so, we are definitely optimistic on the IPO market this year, and I think even you know, in twenty twenty four saw a significant uptick in issuance versus twenty twenty three. Obviously we were coming off a low base, but we saw about thirty three billion in IPO volume in twenty twenty four. We think that that could double this year, you know, just given I think a stable backdrop,

In the US.

We now have rates on the decline, which is supportive of the IPO market. We'll sort of see if that, you know, how that kind of plays out of the course, of the year, and then I think, you know, the expectation of sort of double digit earnings growth in the coming year is also very supportive of the equity market. So we do think you're going to see a lot

So we're recording this at the end of January. I don't recall seeing anybody's forecast for the year ahead saying, hey, really, an expensive AI from China Deep Seek is going to completely disrupt everything. How do you look at the not just the technological disruption that we're all experiencing, but the incredible pace as to how rapid everything is advancing.

How do you think about this and how does that impact the day job?

How does it impact the work?

Sure, so clearly, you know, just talking about Deep Seek specifically, obviously just a huge impact on the equity markets.

You know, as you.

Saw a lot of a lot of some of the larger names trading down significantly, we did see a rebound sort of the following day, which was which was beneficial. I do think, you know, AI is obviously going to be continued to be a big story over the course of twenty twenty five. There's also just a tremendous amount of capital that needs to be raised to kind of

Let's talk a little bit about some of your thoughts on leadership at the bank and long term strategy. If we go back five or six years, you're a managing director and head of specialized industries. What types of firms were you working with then and are you still working with the same firms or has your portfolio widened since then?

Well, I would say that portfolio has widened in the sense that we've continued to add various industries. So specialized industries I think I mentioned before it's nineteen different industries. There was some example, Yeah, so that spans a very wide remit. So some of our very mature businesses, for instance, our government business supporting states and municipalities and school districts across the country. We've been doing excuse me doing that

So how do you assess risk when you're rolling into a new sector or specialized industry. When you're working in a space for a while, you kind of learn what the you know, where the minds are laid. When you move into a new space, how do you approach that?

Well, I would just say it's not as if we weren't banking companies in each of those industries before. It's simply that we did not have dedicated bankers that only did.

That, right, So back to this is why we very.

Much believe and it's been proven out in terms of the growth that we've seen in sort of the specialized industries business. So we sort of focus in on the sectors where we think it makes a difference for the banker to have that industry expertise. Keep in mind, we partner with the investment bank on the m and A advisory and strategic capital raising and they are all industry focused, right,

Again, with the focus on those specific.

Industries, is there something different about the product and solution set for those companies that would require us to have that dedicated focus back to kind of the innovation economy business. As I was saying earlier, we didn't have the early stage capabilities that we needed, you know, seven eight years ago, and that's what it was a very kind of bespoke to those high growth companies and the challenges.

That we fade that they face that led us to.

Kind of build out those digital capabilities and bundled solutions. So that's a good example of why we felt like we needed to build that as an industry.

So it's kind of fascinating that you're serving clients who are rapidly innovating, expanding into spaces that wholly on we're seeing. How do you keep up with that, how do you make sure that you're innovative and cutting edge, and how do you build this when it it's almost as if your clients are outpacing you know, the rest of the market.

Absolutely, and I would say that is one of the best parts of my job is meeting with founders all day long and really obviously hearing about their businesses and what they are doing to kind of disrupt industries, new technologies and that is extraordinarily rewarding in terms of hearing about that and how we can help support that growth. Overall, it is very different meeting with again kind of back to my earlier background spending time in deck capital markets.

Different focus, different.

Space exactly, and skill set.

So that again is sort of the most fun part of my job is being able to interact with all of those founders and hear about sort of the technology to come.

So I'm intrigued at about the work you did in debt capital markets, especially when you were in Europe for three years. What are the major differences between the way we manage debt capital markets and the way they do?

Is it structural?

Tell us about you know, why is it that? Are they very similar or are they different?

Well, so a couple things, I would say that, just one in terms of how we think about covering companies in deck hon arcerts. In the US, we're organized by industry team. In Europe for obviously obviously reasons were organized by country team given language differences. So that again was something that I very much enjoyed, was sitting back to in DCM. You're in the trading floor environment. I would have my UK team over here, my Germany team, my

That's not the case.

But that was that was a great experience overall. I was you know, the European debt capital markets are tend to be a little bit more volatile than the US. It's also because they are a lot smaller, right in terms of just the total volume the investor base that sort of supports those markets all around, and so that's

So I know you're not an economist, so I'm not going to ask you that question, but it just feels like Europe cannot get out of its own way for I don't know, past five years, ten years, go back to Brexit and nearly Grexit. What's going on that Europe seems to be almost structurally lagging the US and having such difficulty finding its footing.

Well, I'm also not an expert on politics, so I'm not going to comment on that because I think there's something to be said there. But what I would say from sort of a structural perspective is I think probably one of the bigger differences today is demographics, where kind of working age population in Europe is declining. I think it's still growing modestly in the US, and obviously that will turn in the US at some point in time, but so that that has been sort of one issue

Overall.

If you look at Germany, obviously the largest, you know, economy in Europe, it's very still sort of heavily manufacturing based. Higher interest rates have really had hurt manufacturing, global manufacturing, and so that's how a bigger impact I think on Germany with those manufacturers operating globally. So those are some

Because when more service oriented, is that the.

More service oriented?

And I think again, you don't have the same I think a lot a lot of countries in Europe are looking to put in place policies to better incentivize some of the technological development. But I mean, you don't have a Bay Area type right, right. I mean you have little pockets of that kind of concept right where you have sort of this ecosystem coming together to disrupt and innovate and support new technology. But there there's nothing as sort of big as the Bay Area in Europe.

But you do have world class manufacturing throughout Europe. And I think absolutely of Mercedes, Porsche, BMW in Germany. You think of all the I guess it really doesn't scale watchmaking and things like that, but there are some really high end companies that are incredibly successful. Are they just the exceptions?

What is it? I'm trying to conceptualize?

Sure, But I also think it's it's much more fragmented obviously than the US market, with each different country with its own own rules and regulations and you know, some some sort of more national less policies than others. And I think that just has an impact on their ability to kind of domin and we're talking about Europe is if it's one thing.

But it's not so.

You're saying, really, it's it is structural, it's not so. The combination of these structural challenges relatively high interest rate, less productivity gains, and a focus that's less service oriented, more manufacturing oriented demographics and demographics. Yeah, so the people who have been waiting for hey, you know, Europe is going to catch up. It's going to mean revert any second. That doesn't seem to be in the imminent cards anytime soon.

I don't think that's in the twenty twenty five cards. Let's put it there.

Okay, Hey, that's fair. That's a perfectly fair thing. I want to talk a little bit about some of the work you've done on women in banking.

You were on the Women on the Move.

Podcast and one of the things you said that struck me was women don't have as robust of a network as as men do.

Explain, so that was that was a little bit of a generalization, probably, but I think what I meant by that was if women tend to stick to because I think often earlier in their career and probably I did the same thing early on. That you stick to sort of the women's network that you develop, right, and there's a lot of sort of women's networking events. I'll speak

So I also read you value and prioritize mentorship. How do you approach this at your job? We'll get to questions about who your mentors were, But do you have mentees? Are you?

Are you practicing what you preach?

Yes?

And I very much take that as a serious responsibility and sort of part of my day job. You know, we have various I would say, organized programs and then there's more informal you know, mentors mentorship programs, and I

So when I first started this podcast, I want to say, almost eleven years ago, was very hard finding women in senior leadership roles and having them come on as guests. That has become much easier. I'm curious how you see the industry as as once male dominated. It's still mostly male dominated, but it feels like it's improving somewhat.

What are you what's your perspective.

I do think that a lot of progress has been made overall. I think, you know, JP Morian not to toot our own horn, but I think is a great example for the industry where you look at, you know, our operating committee, which are the individuals that report directly to Jamie.

You know it is heavily female.

Jamie, I'm sorry, I'm not familiar who is that.

There are many many females on the operating Committee. So we've done a great job there and I think that that's kind of you know, filtered down throughout the organization. So yes, I do think it has improved substantially. I do still think there's a lot of challenges, particularly at that sort of VP late VP early ED level, early

As they would like to.

But yes, I think significant progress has been made at But I think that is a very intentional effort back to kind of understanding why if we are losing female employees or diverse employees, why that is in the same way that we want to understand why we're losing any employee, right, any talented employee we don't we don't want to lose.

So I have a question later about advice to recent college grads, but as long as we're talking about women in banking, let's stay focused on that here. What advice do you have for any young woman who wants to become part of the financial sector or banking industry.

I would just say, really taking advantage of friends colleagues that you know, your network peers to understand all aspects of the industry. And you know that's hard to do sometimes when you're in college and you're not sort of

Huh, really interesting. So let me throw you a curveball question. We talked earlier, not only about your ballet at age four, but dancing professionally for three years. You're a member of the board of trustees for American Ballet Theater, that's the pinnacle of dance in America. Tell us a little bit about the organization, how you found your way to it, what are you doing with them?

Sure? So, I have been on the board since two thousand and nine.

So wow, that's fifteen plus.

Yes, yes, so a long time. So again.

American Ballet Theater, one of the greatest ballet companies in the world, based here in New York, officially designated by Congress, is America's national ballet company.

Huh.

And actually, as of January of this year, I am the new chair of the Board of ABT.

Which is super exciting.

But you know, the.

Board obviously has its basic sort of governmance functions, but you know, we spend a lot of time helping with fundraising for the organization and helping provide you know, expertise where each individual has it. Any nonprofit obviously has a much more limited sort of staff overall. So if there's people on the board that have real estate expertise, or finance expertise or HR expertise, that is very valuable to

Huh really really interesting.

Have passed board members and or chair people been former professional ballet dancers or is this unusual?

There's always a few, but certainly the majority of people on the board don't have a background in dance. And as I always remind everybody, I call it the separation between church and state. The board is there to sort of help with the business of running the ballet company. They have no input whatsoever to anything artistic, which is why it's not required that you have any sort of background.

But I'm curious if there have been previous chair people who were professional ballet.

Dancers that I would have.

I don't think so, But I'm not one hundred percent part right, I don't think so. Our previous chair who retired at the end of last year, his sister danced with a company for many years, and that's really how he became involved in Obviously, you know, very passionate about the ballet huh.

Really, it's one of those fascinating things that just I don't see on people's resumes all that often. And I had no idea you was shamman, but it's really fascinating, all right. So while I still have you, let's jump to our favorite questions that we ask all of our guests. Speaking of entertainment, Let's start with what are you streaming these days? What's keeping you entertained? It could be Netflix, podcast, whatever, What what are you enjoying these days?

So first I would say I am sort of an avid reader. I was talking with a colleague on my way over here. Everybody consumes information differently. I consume it better reading, I think, than always listening right the same way. So I'm sort of very religious about getting through The Economist and The New Yorker every week. And I won't let myself read the next issue of The Economist until I finish the first one.

So even if i'm behind, I know that.

I'm in nineteen eighty six if I follow.

The Okay, there you go, I might have to get that up at some point.

I am currently streaming, I guess, the second season of The Diplomat, which I'm very much enjoying.

I so good.

I love the political action thrillers, but I think I'm running out of them because I've watched all of them at this point.

So you s oh, no, I haven't seen that.

Okay, so a little more intelligence community slash tip of the spear, okay, but you know, the same sort of back and forth layers of intrigue. And but I really enjoyed The Diplomat. I thought that was fascinating. And then what was its secretary of state?

Was the madam secretary Secretary?

That same concept.

I will admit I've watched it a couple of times. Oh really, Yes, exactly. I think it's a good pick me up, particularly when partisan politics are you know, depressing everyone.

It's good. It's just a happy there's always a happy ending. I appreciate the.

Time there's you have an ability to go to a space you're wholly unfamiliar with and be challenged. It's not just entertaining, but it you know, clears the cob webs exactly, exactly, really interesting. So we talked about you as a mentor. Who were your mentors who helped shape your career?

So I would say I feel very lucky when I was most of my career, when I was in Deck Capital Markets, I worked for a woman who ran DCM at the time, and then she went on to do different things at the firm who was very much a sponsor mentor.

For me overall.

And it's just, you know, over time she's retired now from JPMorgan but sort of you know, become a friend. But I think that's where I really, I think learned and embraced kind of just this concept of attracting talent, retaining talent, helping to kind of bring up the next generation of women is a responsibility of senior people. And she really demonstrated that, and certainly I took that to heart.

So since you are a reader, let's talk about books. What are your favorites and what are you reading right now?

So favorites are hard, but what I'm what I'm reading right now? So I actually just finished over the holidays. I tend to alternate between fiction and nonfiction, okay, because I think both are important. Finished Chasing Hope, the Nicholas christoph book is a Foreign Correspondent for The Times, which is interesting. I finished a biography of Alexeira Monsky, who's a choreographer. I don't think many many listening to this podcast may find that book interesting.

But I did a new.

Fiction by Michael Cunningham called Day. So those are all really good. Some of my favorite authors Isabelle Ending Dave Edgars.

That's what I would say.

Edgars is kind of funny if I.

And he has funny titles which I love. Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius one of his first books.

Love that book.

Yeah, so we're down to our last two questions. And this is a broader question than I asked earlier. What sort of advice would you give to a recent college grad interested in a career in either banking or finance.

I think to make sure that they embrace risks taking. And I say that because maybe just because I myself, maybe I'm a little bit risk averse. But I think over the course of your career, you have the opportunity often to do many different things, and a lot of times people are afraid to sort of leave their current group and do something different, and it just opens up a whole world of possibility. So I think sort of taking a little bit more risk than you might naturally do is always good advice.

And when you have no spouse, no mortgage, no kids, that's the time full on your face because you get up, dust yourself off and start over again. It's funny how when you're a few years past being young, that's obvious, but at the time it doesn't feel that way.

Well, and it feels like such a big ust.

Got it's so risky, right exactly. And our final question, what do you know about the world of banking and investment and growth companies today that would have been really helpful twenty five or so years ago.

That's a really good question.

And it's not I should have worn in video when it was fifty cents. It's like, what philosophically would have been useful to know that you eventually figured out.

I think because I started in the investment bank and then by definition was really working with primarily larger size companies. I think I know, as I kind of mentioned earlier, understanding how different it is and the fact that you have the ability to make an even bigger difference for a smaller size company that needs that sort of trusted advisor even more, I think it would would be sort

Melissa, this has been absolutely fascinating. Thank you for being so generous with your time. We have been speaking with Melissa Smith. She is co head of commercial banking for JP Morgan. If you enjoy this conversation, we'll be sure to check out any of the past five hundred or

I would be remiss if.

I did not thank the Crack team that helps put these conversations together each week. Sarah Livesey is my audio engineer. Anna Luke is my producer. Sean Russo is my researcher. Sage Bauman is the head of Podcasts at Bloomberg. I'm Barry Rutults. You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio