Jean Case Discusses the Impact of Investing in Philanthropy

you're really gonna enjoy this conversation. She not only was there in the very early days of internet technology and how that ate the world, but she has been on the forefront of changing the way people donate money to have an effect on on other causes. It's really quite fascinating. She's a very very interesting person, so knowledgeable. Uh, this was just delightful. With no further ado, my conversation with Gene Case, I have an extra special guest today. Her

name is Gene Case. Gene was a pioneer in the world of interactive technologies. She ran the marketing and branding effort that launched the AOL service, ran the communications strategy for taking the company public, and helped to establish a o L as a household brand. Her career spanned for decades before she and her husband Steve Case created the Case Foundation in Today, she is actively engaged in philanthropy and investing. She is CEO of the Case Foundation, Chairman

of the National Geographic Society Board of Trustees. She serves on numerous advisory boards, including the George W. Bush President Show Library Centers, Woman's Initiative Policy Advisory Council. She's especially interested in millennial engagement, motivating the next generation of entrepreneurs and philanthropists. Gene Case, Welcome to Bloomberg. It is a pleasure to be here with you, Barry, Thanks for having me. So that's a heck of a CV, and I just

read part of it. I have to ask a sort of obscure question, did you ever have any idea that this is how your life was gonna unfold? It's sort of an unusual career path. It's a circuitest route. But actually, I think when you talk to a lot of folks who have achieved some degree of success, if you peel back the onion, it's not uncommon that it's a circuitous route. Some people talk about it, and some people don't. But did I have any idea? You know, there's a part

of me that would say I did. Actually, I think I always dream big and literally every phase of my life and worked hard basically to achieve some of the dreams that I had. You have a very entrepreneur real background. Was that what you're where you began? Is that what you thought you would focus on? Was it always? I did not know. I actually thought I was going to be a lawyer, believe it or not. Sort of my

true north was empowering people. I thought I would work in my life to do what I could to empower others. But originally I thought that was going to be via the path of a lawyer. Um. But I first came to Washington, d C. Where I live, working in the Reagan administration. Um. And what would you do for Ronald Reagan? I did public affairs? Yeah, well you in the White House? No,

I was out an agency. Um. But if you remember, Ronald Reagan was really transforming government as part of what he ran on and then what he came in and did. And he did have a few communication skills of his own. He did I might say he was a brilliant connosicator, but probably about a year into that role, I got a call from UM, a startup that was outside of d C that was focused on what was then called an online service, was the first today we call at

the Internet UM, and I made the leap. So I really considered at the time, Gee, you know, if my passion really is empowering people, the opportunity to democratize access to ideas and information and communication is just too exciting, and maybe I can have more impact in the private sector than I could if I stayed in the public sector. And the name of that initial company was The Source, which was one of the first online services. The Source

and compus Serve were the two early ones. And then how did you go from the Source to American Online? I believe there were a few there were, so, you know, we were a startup, a struggling startup at the Source.

But I really loved that time UM. But I was active in my role there in marketing and GE called and they were thinking about getting into the business as well, and they recruited me to come to a startup for them that was called Genie, and I spent about three years there and then I got a call from what was to become a O l Um and I made the lead back to a startup and that was what year that was to A O L. Wow, that's right. But my first the first job in UM technology was

eight two. And it's so funny, you know, I spent so much time with millennials and I tell them it was two and they look at me like I'd grown three heads. I mean, they weren't born there and they shooters back then forgetting exactly exactly. That's amazing. So fast forward in two thousand and eleven, you and your husband Steve Case named as uh two of the best givers by Barons. Tell us how you guys transition from entrepreneurship

and technology startups to philanthropy. Yeah, well, there's sort of the personal side that took us there and also sort of the trajectory we were on. So very early at A O. Well we had decided we would start the Well Foundation. It was my job kind of to stand that up. UM. So we did that and that was kind of our toe in the water around sort of

more formalized philanthropy. But even by that time we knew that personally the success of the company would lead to extraordinary wealth, and I think we both knew that to who much has given, much is expected. That's how we were raised. That's a great phrase. And I think we always knew there was no way we would just enjoy that wealth in our lifetime. I mean, of course we have, but that we would commit most of it to the

benefit of others. And speaking of committing most of it, you and your husband joined the Giving Pledge started by Bill and Melinda Gates, to commit to giving away all of your wealth. Eventually tell us what the thinking was behind that. Yeah, So, as I said, we had really made that commitment very early on. And if you look at our activities sort of the degree of investment in philanthropic things was a clear example that we were basically going to give away the majority of our wealth very early.

So when they formed the Giving Pledge, Melinda called and asked if we would be a part of it. And it was a little uncomfortable for us, to be honest with you, at first. We had to get comfortable with the idea of being public about uh, you know, just

almost having our wealth be a spotlight. Um. But since we had already made that decision so many years before and we're well on our way, um, we thought, what a terrific opportunity to learn and grow together with others who want to make a difference, and ultimately that's why

we decided to go ahead and jump in. And it's been a really exciting experience in the sense that we've had the opportunity to help lead what's called the Learning Series, and since that was really why we got engaged in the first place, it's been a wonderful leadership opportunity to work with other givers to learn more about different areas that we can invest in and hopefully have impact. Tell us about the work you actually did for them pre I p O as well as pre product launched through

a few phases we did. We did, Yeah, what starts. You know, what the company started as is not really what it ended up as. But that's the story of so many startups, right, That's the thing that absolutely but when we started the American Line service, less than three percent of Americans were online, and they were only online one hour a week a week. But we were true believers that there was really a mass market opportunity and as I said earlier, really a powerful opportunity to democratize

access to really cool stuff for people everywhere. UM, and that was the mission we were on and we were a very mission focused company. UM. So we launched a well, first for the Macintosh in nine and then later for PCs, you know, more more traditional PC versions. UM. When we went public in our valuation with seventy million dollars, that's astonishing.

That was really early days. Yes, we were the first internet company to go public UM and then later Escape is four years later ACT and we later bought an Escape as you might recall, UM. But later of course, evaluation of the company was a hundred sixty billion at the time of the merger. So UM, it was quite a rocket ship ride. It was the best performing stock of the ninety nineties UM. And I think all of

us had had the opportunity to be some part of it. Uh, look back on it as really truly the opportunity of a lifetime. So for me, you know, I kind of thought, wow, like where do I go from here? After I left the company, Like, are the best days over left? Late? I did. I left in the late nineties, And you know, the really cool thing is I still feel every day as energized and inspired by the work that I get to be engaged and as I did back in those

days in A Well. And it was funny because I think for anyone who gets a rocketship ride, you worry your best days are over, and you know, often does lightning strike twice exactly exactly? And so I feel very fortunate that, you know, as my husband and I founded our family foundation, the Case Foundation, that we've really been able to try to use our talents and our resources to have tremendous impact. And it's just a great feeling

when you wake up every day. You know, at the Case Foundation, we say we invest in people, in ideas and can change the world. And so that's how I'm spending my time and in collaboration with others and with a really brilliant team at the Case Foundation. And let me tell you it is. Uh. It doesn't just meet the A Well experiences. In many ways, it actually has surpassed it. So let's let's stay with the theme of

changing the world and the impact of technology. When you go online today, or certainly when I go online today, Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twitter, I see huge parallels back to A O. L. Certainly the genesis of those companies existed in some question offering how often do you look around modern Internet and say, oh, yeah, we did that that traces. Oh I remember when we rolled out that. How how parallel is what's taking place today.

You know, we have the benefit of knowing some of these founders, of course, and you know, Mark Zuckerberg will tell you he got his teeth hacking a O l U. The Twitter founders will tell you they were inspired by sort of what A Well didn't get right, which was sort of the real time messaging back and forth. But that real time messaging was tremendous with it was no question it was a huge business for us UM and Facebook. You know, we used to have these things called member pages.

But you know, back in that era of technology, anonymity was actually valued. It was less about you know, telling who you were. Oh my god. You never say where you were what you were doing. So it's fun to look back. I mean, you know, I've been in technology long enough to remember when people thought it would be crazy that you'd ever give your credit card online for anything, And now they ask Amazon to police store it for

him and suggest things to buy. So we've seen these technology trends come and I think it's the nature of innovation, UM and revolutions that it's iterative, right, And so we're thrilled that these next gen companies have come along and taken what was really a vision of ours, even further sad that we missed it. You know, we should have been the Google, We should have been the Twitter, we should have been the Facebook. But really happy for them that you know, they've locked on it and they're doing

something great. Isn't that the nature of of both technology and the innovator's dilemma that when any company achieves a huge success in one area, you could pivot when you're small, you can from your startup, But how do you pivot when you say, hey, we're worth a hundred plus billion dollars, let's completely revamp what got us here, no question. And you know, we have this work at the Case Foundation where we've looked at principles that are present where there's

innovation and breakthrough transformation. And I spend a lot of time with big institutions teaching these principles. They're known under our term be fearless. And you know, we use examples like a Well that we just talked about, but also like Kodak. You know, Kodak invented digital photography, but they were making so much money off of that film from the old cameras that they really wouldn't invest in the new radical digital photography. And what happened, others came along

ate their lunch. The company, you know, really kind of went by by in the early two thousand's how much how much film is sold today, it's it's and yet when you look at the digital world, it's really difficult to say, this is our bread and butter. Now that's destroyed, right, right, So it's so important to keep innovating. It's so important to you know, not let yourself get too comfortable, whether you're an individual, by the way, or whether you're an institution.

I think that's when, um, you know that, that's when you start to lose ground. Uh, if you're not constantly moving forward. So you were gone from American Line by the time the huge Time Warner deal took place. Did you have any thoughts of it? Were you kind of and I'm I assume this is coffee table talk at home, But do you ever look at that transaction and say, gee, this is a giant thing that's so different than what got us here, or okay, this is we're sort of

a media company this is a logical next step. How did you we all have the benefit of hindsight, how did you How did that look to a recent graduate from a O L who was no longer on the inside. Well, of course, you know, my husband was chairman of the merged company, so I probably had a little bit of a bias insight on the matter. Um, But you know,

I really think that it was the right vision. And you know, as my husband talks about it, because he obviously was in a leadership role that took it forward. You know, I just I think we were very disappointed that the execution wasn't there. Um, But you know, uh, we move on, and as I said, we've really been excited by this opportunity in this chapter that's open for us to look at innovation, to invest in entrepreneurs, to drive impact more broadly in society. So at the end

of the day, uh, we feel pretty good. Let's talk a little bit about the Case Foundation. You just passed the twentieth anniversary of establishing this. What is it like running a large philanthropic firm with your mission? You know, it's really exciting, but I have to tell you it kind of blows my mind to think we've been at this twenty years. For me, that's the longest I've ever spent in one job. UM, and those twenty years really

did fly by. UM. But it has been exciting. I think it's enabled us to take what we believe are our areas of expertise. You know, technology has been a keep part of what we've done at the Case Foundation, trying to figure out a way to best leverage technology to drive greater good and impact out in society. UM. But it's been a terrific ride and we've really enjoyed it. And I think really from the get go, we decided we didn't want to go it alone. This was not

going to be about us writing checks. This was going to be about trying to have a catalytic institution UM that would bring others along and collaborate with others. And because of that, we feel really good about the impacts we've been able to have. So let's talk a little bit about venture backed startups. You have some amazing statistics on the on the Case Foundation site. Only ten percent of venture backed companies had a female founder. That's correct,

only one percent had an African American founder. Well, you know, this is why we're so passionate about this area we call inclusive entrepreneurship, you know. And we would add some data, by the way, and that is that last year, seventy eight percent of injury capital went to just three places,

New York, Massachusetts, and California. So we're really pulling putting all of our eggs into a few baskets here, and that's never a smart idea when it comes to UH finance and opportunity UM so unknowingly that means folks have kind of been left behind, you know, Like when we saw the results of UM the election last year and we heard from voters, you know, some of the media described it as they feel left behind, but when you look at data like that, no, the reality is they

have been left behind by terrific opportunities and it hasn't served our nation well. So what we see is, you know, with entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs live problems, and usually these great companies that come forward are a result of finding solutions to

personal problems they've lived. So we just see a terrific and powerful economic opportunity to bring women and people of color into the mix, as well as people who live between the coasts, and who knows the kind of innovations that will come forward, chances are they will more broadly serve society because they're not just the elites on the coast, you know, taking what is already a pretty comfortable life

and making it more comfortable for some of us. We really need people jumping in and building new products and services that will address uh, you know, the needs of citizens more broadly. So let me press you a little bit and say, what can a foundation or a philanthropy due to help level the playing field for every So this area of impact investing, it's a funny term, and we should, you know, probably talk about what we what

we mean when we say that. But in its simplest form, we think of it as new ways to solve old problems. Essentially now using capital and using mentorship of entrepreneurs um to drive new kinds of companies that are specifically focused on bringing benefit to society. So we say, for it to be an impact investment, it must have both a financial and a social return. So these aren't just do good kind of investments, Easier investments that can have the promise of a market rate return while at the same

time providing a social benefit. So essentially the thought process is companies, technologies, businesses have such an outsize impact on the way society functions. We don't want to just have a little philanthropy that responds to a little bit of an issue. We want to broader societal change, right And frankly, I mean where economic power comes from is the private sector.

And when I first got engaged in philanthropy full time, it really bothered me that we were looking at you know, long entrenched dogging problems and we had teams around a table, so it was a good collaborative, but it was like there were missing chairs, and those missing chairs were entrepreneurs. And boy, I'll tell you, if you want to find innovative ways forward, ask an entrepreneur to think about a problem.

So we're really excited about the opportunity to bring these sectors that have mostly been left on the sidelines as we think about big social challenges, inviting them into the tent and really calling them to do what they do well. And I think, you know, ultimately there's no amount of philanthropy that can really address the challenges that we have

in the world today. We need all sectors working together, and we're really excited by what some of the entrepreneurs away they're thinking and what they're bringing to the table. Let's define that term, perhaps for people who may not know what it means. What is impact investment? Sure, well, you know, as I said, I we define it as a class of investments that provide for investors both a social and a financial reach turn, with the social piece

being kind of what's new about impact investing. But it might make more sense if I just talk a bit about what kind of companies we're looking at here when we talk about impact investing. So we've been invested in a young company called Revolution Foods on the West Coast. And essentially these are two moms who looked at the

school system and saw two very talented moms. So I must to tell you very well educated mobs um who looked at the school system and realized basically it was junk being served to kids, particularly in low income communities. When hcat all the stuff we really don't want to be pumping into our young children. And by the way, the same kind of food that doesn't lead to good outcomes in the classroom, right, it doesn't power them the way they need to be powered to perform at peak.

So they said, we can do something about that, and they started this company, Revolution Foods, and today they've served millions of um healthy they call them chef crafted kid inspired meals. I've been in schools and seen the chill and eating these meals and enjoying them um. And it's you know, called Revolution Foods for a reason. Who knew was revolutionary to bring healthy foods into our public schools. So they act as a contractor providing they does that

scale is that spread? It has scaled dramatically, as I said, they've now they're in a number of different markets. They've served millions of these healthy foods um. And in addition, you know, they have a job strategy to try to bring in some job training and employ those that have been left out of the job culture. So they've added like a thousand new jobs. It's really it's quite a story. But it's a great example of an impact company. And

we're very excited about their growth. And you know, Fast Company named them one of the most innovative companies in America. So they're getting recognition out there in the market for

what they're doing. But another example is a company called blend Or started by an African American female Stephanie Lampkin blend or works with big companies that are in tech to blind the resume data in such a way that you can you can't detect the gender, nor can you detect the background of the person based on the kind

of name or whatever. And it's a real algorithmically driven, scaled approach to trying to help these tech companies who actually want to diversify in many cases, but they know that implicit bias exists along the reviewer line as as resumes come in. So this blinds that data out of the resume, so you're really just getting the pure accomplishments

of the candidates. And it's had a dramatic impact in the companies they've worked with, many of which we know Microsoft, etcetera, um in terms of changing the ratio of new tech employees. You know that that reminds me of what a number of orchestras have done with their process of blind behind the curtain and suddenly it's a much more diverse Exactly, that's exactly right, and so that's what she's setting out

to do. But as I said earlier, I think as we bring people from low income environments in, as we bring people of color, different backgrounds, etcetera. The kind of innovation we're gonna see are just going to be different than what the same class of mostly elite white males on the coasts have been building. Nothing wrong with those, We celebrate them. We've talked about a lot of them in this conversation, but we just need to mix it up.

So you have a descriptor about the sorts of investments you make, and I want to ask you about these three conditions intentionality, transparency, and measurement. Right tells sure, Well, when we talk about impact investing, we say those three conditions must be present. Intentionality basically says, look, you have to be clear about what impact are you intending to have, right so, and that intentionality has to be baked in

to the way your business plan is going forward. You have to commit to measure it because we can all say, hey, you know, I want to like serve more healthy meals, but if we don't have a means of clear measurement around that impact, it doesn't really matter. And then the last is transparency, and there there really has to be a Kumbaya moment between the company and the investors to say we're going to make public and be transparent about the impact and the measurement. So let's talk a little

bit about impact investing and E s G investing. What is the Case Foundation doing with its portfolio? Sure, so you know, the Case Foundation is using its resources to be a catalyst in the movement. More broadly, we are using personal resources to do the investments. Um, and I have a portfolio that I am taking to impact across all asset classes. And what does that look like in real life? Okay, So it's messy and it's hard, and it's going to take a lot longer than I thought.

And it's funny, you know, because I often speak on impact investing, I teach in business schools, etcetera. And then this idea that Okay, I'm gonna personally walk the walk in a very real way. I think I've learned a lot. But you know, uh, what we see today are some terrific sort of deal flow opportunities out there. But we also see some funds, some layers washing themselves as impact. But then when you ask those really pointed questions about

what is your intentional impact? What are you doing to measure it? And you know, what have you reported against your impact? Sometimes things fall down. So I've seen a lot of deals, you know, brought to the table that you know, you kind of shake your head and say, sorry,

it just does not make the cut. And I think that's something we have to be a little careful about in this early phase of impact investing in the movement more broadly, is to really ask the hard questions around this intentionality, measurement and transparency to make sure people aren't what we call kind of greenwashing what they're doing. So, so, how do you measure the impact of a portfolio and investment?

A last year, the big et F that rolled out was she Um, which was put together with I believe it was Calisters and State Street. Calisters is still the

lion share of the assets that are invested. Can those sort of investments have an impact or is it just a little bit of mind share and not a whole lot more so, you know, we published something called the Short Guide to Impact Investing, which can be found on case foundation dot org, and they're what we say is there just needs to be a match between the intentionality

of the investor and the investee. And in this early days of impact investing, I don't think we should draw too tight a box What I think is more relevant is making sure that the impact you're seeking through an investment, there is a means to measure it and report it. So you said, how do you judge you know, the impact of a portfolio today? I think the way that it makes the most sense is literally deal by deal, because impact is going to look different with every investment

that you make. The key is knowing what their intention is and yours is, and making sure there's a measurement and transparency to report it. So you're on the board of directors of the National Geographic um Society. Correct your cherson, I am the chairman. So let's the E and e s G is environmental. Yes, how do you measure the impact of that when the damage has been done over a century and the curative or at least the reduction of future damage could take decades to measure? Or Am

I being too pessimistic? You know, I don't think you're being too pessimistic. I'm more optimistic than you are because I think how a lot of these things work. As new technologies will come along, they will create a faster path to impact. But I you know, I just I

feel like I'm repeating myself. But I think the most important thing, and this is true you know for Investment Committee at National Geographic Society as well as on our personal investment front, is to make sure at the time we're making the impact investment, we understand what the commitment and the intentionality is around what we're trying to impact, and that there's a means to report it out. So you know, in some cases you may not actually see

impacts for the first year or two. It may but the key is having this and I said it is come by a moment to make sure you know what you're investing in, you know what the expectation is for how those impacts are going to report. Now, let me just say a word on the National Geographic Society and sort of the whole impact investing realm around it. UM. It's hunter twenty nine year old institution. We have a

one point three billion dollar endowment. Um. You know, we grant tens of millions of dollars out into the world every year. And you know, we really had to step back and say, look, grants are really powerful and they do really important things. But today there's a whole new generation of companies being born and taken forward that are also assisting in exploration and science in the environment, etcetera.

So now we've added to our portfolio not just grants, but investments in these young companies that are also very consistent with our mission. And I would say to people out there who have portfolios, if they're in the companies, if they have endowments, whatever, I think it's really important to use this kind of investing as another tool, kind of in your toolkit as to how you can change the world. We have been speaking with Gene Case. She was a senior executive at America on Line and now

runs the Case Foundation. UH. If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and stick around for the podcast extras, where we keep the tape rolling and continue discussing all things technology and philanthropy. Be sure and check out my daily column on Bloomberg View dot com. Follow me on Twitter at rit Halts. We love your comments, feedback, end suggestions right to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I'm Barry Hults. You're listening to Masters and Business on

Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast. I am here with Gene Case. Gene, thank you so much for doing this. I have so many questions for you, then let's go. I'm enjoying, so let's let's let's jump into this with um. The one question I missed in the beginning how impactful can philanthropy be? And what I mean by that is how long does it take to really move the needle and see the results of your work? If it was really easy, it was just writing a check, Hey, we

would have changed the world in a long time ago. Absolutely, it's really important to understand that to be most impactful and sort of the change the world arena, it really just can't stop at check writing. Check writing by itself is not going to transform anything. I think where we've seen transformational change is when people are all in, when they bring their networks, their resources, you know, their skills. Um, just there's there's no stopping sort of what they bring

to the party beyond the check writing. And by the way, we think collaboration is something and I'll say in my twenty years in this there's really good news on that front. Today, I think it's better understood that we're better together than just taking that sort of name on bricks and feeling proud that we wrote some big check right, that working together as partners is how we see moving the needle. So when you say collaborations it between different foundations, is

it between the private sector and the problem. So I'll speak to the Case foundation, but I am seeing it more broadly, okay, Um. We have always been about cross sector collaboration. So for big initiatives, we require a private sector partner, we require a public sector partner and hopefully other philanthropies alongside with us, and of course a nonprofit

UH partner as well. Private and a public sector partner in order to make them absolutely investment absolutely, And we've helped lead some major initiatives where we can point to impact and say, you know, wow, that happened because we were better together. Each brought his or her own strength to the table and and our be fearless work that I referenced earlier, this idea we call it reach beyond

your Bubble, which has built a really big table. Ask who's not at the table, what voices aren't being heard, and get them around the table. And typically where there's a very diverse collaborative team at work, that's where we've seen breakthroughs. It usually isn't sort of the one soul player with a really strong mission believing he or she alone can change the world. That's just not how it happens.

And the good news is with the millennial generation, collaboration you know is in their d n A. That's just how they think about the world. It's very different really than the world that I grew up in, where you know, I think silos existed to them, they're open arms to anybody that can help like get them to their goals. And so I think that's starting to find its way

into the culture of institutions across the nation. So I want to talk more about the millennials, but before I get to that, I have to bring up be Fearless principles, right, Fearless? That really sounds like a best selling book title. What what's the plans with the with the book for that? Well, I am writing a book. I am fresh from two weeks away where I just went all by myself and

wrote for two weeks. So can I can I suggest be Fearless as a title, because I think that's a winner, so um as I. So it is work that we've had underweight the Foundation for quite some time, and we've literally worked with thousands of people around the country to teach the principles and again they're really principles of innovation. And let me give you an example of you know what they represent. The first is make big bets and

make history and the ideas. Don't accept incremental change. You know, have a big idea and chase it and put together what's necessary to make that real. That sounds a little like the big b hag. Yes, exactly, big hairy, audacious goals. It's very similar to that. Um. The second principle is experiment early and often take risks. Be bold. And here's where you see old line institutions get really nervous berrys

when we start talking about risk take king. They literally can say it's too risky to take risks, to which I say, okay. But if you look at any transformational company or institution, you know what you will see is they looked at it as R and D as necessary focus on the next thing and putting some degree of resource or investment into that. So you know, this risk taking you can always see when you have an uncomfortable audience like what do you mean risk? Like, I you know,

I want to stay comfortable. I love I love the Jeff Bezos of Amazon quote, which is and I'm mangling this. If we're not failing, well, then we're doing something wrong because it means we're just making safe bets. And what's the value of that, right? And you know, we have so many great quotes that we use, but Albert Einstein said failure is success in progress. But think about it as institutions and individuals. We don't look at it that way.

There's a tendency to hang your head. But I hang out with entrepreneurs right, and they count their failures almost as badges. And I'll be much quicker to invest in an entrepreneur that's on his third startup after two failed or her third start up after two failed. Um, then I would someone starting for the first time, because I know those failures have really made them better, have taught them things, and now they can go further. So that's

our third principle, which is make failure matter. That's really interesting when when I have conversations with Europeans about the differences between American and europe I happen to love their approach to life work balance. We kinda over emphasized work here. They are wholly perplexed by our embracement of failure. A disaster a startup that goes belly up is sort of fatal there. Absolutely for us, it's like, well, you get up,

you brush yourself off, you start. Oh. It's such a cultural difference, such a philosophical difference, and to some degree accounts for the success of them, because entrepreneurial sector, right, But I think it's on all of us, in particularly anyone who's you know, achieved some kind of success, to be more transparent about, you know, the failures that got us there, because too often, I think, and sometimes when I'm in front of college students, I haven't done this

in a while, I'll have to pull it out again. Um, when I'm in front of college students, you know, they'll read this illustrious bio that makes it sound like everything was so perfect and it was just you know, one step step after the other, etcetera. And then I come forward and I say, now, let me read you my failure resume, and I talk about how that happened because this failed over here, or it was a failure at

that that led to this. And I think sometimes people are less comfortable talking about their failure back and we do a disservice to the next generation because they're left to believe. Oh my gosh, if this has happened, is it over for me? UM, So I think it's really

important to talk about failure. And so, you know, we make a point at the case Foundation of UH talking about our failures and it was really a watershed moment as part of this be Fearless work where we said, from now on, whenever we publish anything, we're going to publish what failed as well as what was successful. UM And we started holding fail fests around at different places, sail fest where we would encourage people to talk about failure,

said had in the nonprofit. In the public sector, it can be called waste, fraud and abuse if you're not careful, if you've tried something and it failed. We need to get rid of that culture. We need to encourage more risk taking and understand that you know, if it is risk taking, it means you don't know for sure that it's going to be a success, but you're trying something big. One of my favorite pages that venture capital websites post

are their list of things we missed. Hey, we're given an opportunity to invest in Google and Uber and right and we just thought these were terrible, Like dais and we blew it, and there's something refreshing about people just being honest about Nope, I couldn't quite see that, and it turned out I was wrong, absolutely. And you know, we like to tell the story of Airbnb right when they were pitching to some of those really celebrated investment firms and they go, what people are going to stay

in the homes of total strangers? Never gonna happen, right, And then you look at that model in Uber, they're really not that far apart. Taxis one exactly exactly you would have thought if you if you saw one, you should have seen the other one. That's pretty interesting. Let's talk one last point on impact investing. I have to ask you about you're you you reference on the site. In alone, it grew to a hundred and eighteen billion dollars in impacted assets under management, and you note we

still haven't hit the tipping point for impact investment. So so how large can this get and where is the tipping point for E s G and or impact investing? Well? I think E s G S tipping point is coming a lot faster and we're a lot closer just given the scale of E s G. But impact investing specifically, how big can it get? It can be the definition

of investment where impact goes away. So we've talked a lot about millennials, Um, we haven't talked about, you know, the transfer of wealth that's coming in the tens of trillions of dollars. And then they so you know, between women and millennials, they're gonna they're gonna control in a very large purse in the United States, will drive where investments are going. Um. And you know, if you talk to women and you talk to millennials today, they're not

only conscious consumers, they're conscious investors. And the banks know it's kind of an open secret. Now they're feeling the pressure of these two groups kind of nipping at the heels of the current established investment community saying where are the deals that are that bring you know, social return as well as financial return. So of course it's a big idea to say all investing, you know, impact investing will be all investing a tipping point. I'm pretty optimistic.

I think we're going to see that in the coming years. I think, you know, somewhere in the two to three year I believe we'll see a tipping point in impact investing UM. But you know what I do feel good about is there's been tremendous traction and momentum already just in the years we've been focused on it UM. And it's hard to predict these things. There's a fascinating book by UM professor Meyer's Stateman out in Santa Clara, California, called One Investors Really Want and a decade before this

really picked up. He discussed how people want their investments in their portfolios to reflect not only their character and personality, but their values, their beliefs, and what they want to accomplish the world beyond outpacing inflation and saving for environment. And as e s G and impact gets more and more, UM finds more and more resonance. It's clear he was really onto something long before a lot of other people.

I've seen that. I think that's right. And you know, you look at sort of who the players are that have come into the market, right, and it's really quite impressive. I mean, we have Goldman participating with Baine black Rock. I mean these are marquee names. We have marquee investors all over this space as well. And then you have something like the TPG Rise Fund that came along, which

is a two billion dollar fund. I think some of us would have said in the last year or two, we're not sure we're going to see that level of scale and a fund that, you know, the Rise Fund has brought. So there's a lot to look at watch for that I think will play a role in driving how quickly this goes to mainstream. Let's talk a little bit about UM millennials. That's something, uh, you focus on a little bit. We do there there was a UM.

So first of all, there are more twenty six year olds in the United States than any other single age. Tell us a little bit about the work you're doing with millennials. Sure, well, for nearly a decade now we have tracked the perceptions and attitudes of millennials around impact UM and each year we pick a different sort of

area to focus on. For instance, we've done some years at our workplace focused where no big surprise, you know, they want from their employers focus on more than just you know, the bottom line that they will actually take in some cases of pay cut to work with the company that they believe is more about benefiting society and then say another offer that they have, ETCeteras that impact careerism or how would you really describe that? You know, what I would say is, I would say it's more

kind of values aligned that um. And we've been working with companies for some number of years in our work with millennials, you know, because they understand that to attract and retain this next generation, they can't just be doing business the same old way. I mean for their conscious consumers. So if they're selling their products in a consumer market, they you know, they can't just look like they're all about profit. They have to have some you know, deeper,

richer role in society that they can articulate. And the same is true for attracting best in class talent and then retaining them. So there's a statu you have that I'm I'm I guess I shouldn't be surprised at but the numbers are kind of overwhelming. Of millennials believe the US is going in the wrong direction or aren't sure what direction we're going in only believe the US is going in the right direction. First question is those numbers

are astonishing, what do they mean? And second question is that a big change from recent or not so recent history. Has the younger generation always kind of felt we were on the wrong track. So I think the I think

the younger generation has always been idealistic. I think what separates this young our generation from previous younger generations is they are at work turning their idealism into activism, like, in a very real way, turning their ideas into something real, whether it's through the companies they start or work for, whether it's through something they have on the side, you know, to to be activists in their communities, etcetera. We just really are quite taken aback at the degree of activism

that we're seeing coming out of this new generation. Yes, I think it's always been easy to be disillusioned as a young person. To your question about the most recent data, we've not done in longitudinal study on this, but looking more broadly at other studies, we do believe it's a real low um And by the way, the other thing we really don't have to compare to it because we only looked at millennials, is how they compare to the generations ahead of them, gen X, baby Boomers, etcetera. In

terms of how they see the US. But it really I I sent a copy of the latest report which revealed that data to every sing member of Congress. It needs to be a wake up call that we have a generation that's going to completely be defined as our workforce. For the most part, they will be the majority workforce. Um, they're a huge you know, there's seventy millions strong. They're not a small pocket. The absolutely, absolutely, we really need to be paying attention when they say, you know, they

think we're on the wrong track. And the good news is they're not just sitting there saying I'm bummed we're not doing it right. They have ideas, They have real resource and things they can bring forward to make a difference if we engage them and make them part of a solution. So how do how does this generation's dislike of the direction we're heading, How does that manifest itself in the real world. So I think I'm seeing what

I call an equal and opposite reaction. Right, they really find distasteful some of the you know, even the headlines today they find distasteful. Okay, But instead of sort of just putting their head in the sand and saying it's all bad, what I'm seeing is that equal and set reaction of doubling down on their activism and saying, but I'm going to do what I can to make a difference in some small way. And you know, I'll give you an example of sort of some areas of promise

that we've seen. So at the Case Foundation, when technology was first being used as a means to do um micro giving. Okay, so small amounts, whether they be ten, we did some of the early experiments to see what was the real potential there. So we put about four million dollars of investment into three different giving platforms. To date, that's yielded over five billion in giving, most of it

most of it micro giving. So I think when you look at like Kiva of this World or um go fund Me, I think the kind of ways that we're seeing. Literally some of these people are early in their career, they don't have a lot of extra budget dollars, but they will make you know, ten dollars available for something that they really believe in. And you know, too often

I hear what difference can ten dollars make? But I've often said, you know, small amounts, when taken together, can do powerful things, and we're seeing that play out in society. So how what is the role of social media in all this? You mentioned go fund me. All of these Kickstarter go down the list of companies, they all have an enormous social component. Is this generation different than because of Facebook and Twitter and everything else in prior generations? Yeah,

I think they are. I mean, I think they're much more digitally native. Right, they didn't have to unlearn, they just had to learn UM and so I think they're much more comfortable and sort of think first about digital um. And you know, one of our first studies that we came out with, we asked them how they're spending their time, you know, with their mobile phone or whatever. And at that time, you know, the generation really had this reputation

as slackers, etcetera. And one of our earliest studies said, you know, mimennial said they check their cell phone to connect with a nonprofit. And so I've often said to parents into those that kind of want to pass off this generation, why don't you think about that? Why don't you think about you know, digital as being a tool instead of something they're just playing around with. And of course social media has really you know, vaulted that in a meaningful way. So I know, I only have you

for a finite amount of time. Let me jump into my standard questions I asked all of my guests, and I know you like the one on failure coming up. Tell us the most important thing people don't know about your background raised by a single mom, really tough economic situation, product of philanthropy myself in what way scholarships were made available and people who came alongside and helped me and my family. Tell us about some of your early mentors.

My mom, she's a single mom raising four kids alone. She woke up up every day with energy that would put me in a shame, with a smile on her face, and that was very inspiring to see. And although she didn't have much, she made sure we were always doing for others. So tell us about some of the philanthropists who have influenced your approach to making your money have the biggest impact when when you it's involved with the Case Foundation. Yeah, so it's kind of a little bit

of a personal story. So when we were building a well, next door was another big software company and we knew the founder and he was a really good guy and became a friend. But he was doing something pretty radical that we hadn't seen other companies do, and that was very early in the stage of success for his company, he started getting deeply engaged in philanthropy. UM, and we all marveled at that. We just hadn't seen that he was a young guy. He was like in his forties.

It was before the I P O. And you know, I personally made a note of that and really followed him, and to this day we're very close friends. But I think not only he inspired me, but he probably inspired a full generation of young people who witnessed him, you know, taking these early actions with his wealth and really making a difference. What was the software company adjacent to A

O l um? So his name is Mario Marino and he built a company called Legiant and sure, yeah, it was Marino and Associates originally, and then it became Legiant, and he still engaged. He was deeply engaged, absolutely, and we're still very good friends to this day. That that's that's quite fascinating. Um, this is everybody's favorite question. Uh,

tell us about some of your favorite books, fiction, nonfiction, technology, philanthropy, whatever. Well, I have one book that just completely blew me away. It's Steven Johnson's How We Got to Now And it's six Innovations that Changed the world and they're really non obvious, and I don't want to give away to your listeners

what they are. But I was so inspired by it that we decided as a team at the Case Foundation we'd read it together and we had a nice little wine and cheese hour where we talked about it and it's implications to our work. But I think it's highly relevant to individuals as well as to organizations. And then, of course my husband's book, The Third Wave. I remember when The Third Wave came out. How we got to now and the Third Wave? You want to give us

a fiction book? What you're reading for fun? You know? I reread the classics on a routine basis. It's my escape. Um, so just pick any classics and chances are I've been through it recently. Okay, UM, let's talk about some things that have changed over the twenty years you've been running the Case Foundation. What has been the most significant shift

in the world of philanthropy The democratization of philanthropy. You know, when I came in, it was still considered rich people writing checks, and I think someone influenced by our work, but more broadly, the collaborative approach to really democratizing it so that anyone anywhere can be a philanthropist, and I'm very excited by it. I talked about some of the stats earlier, UM, and I think it's unstoppable and it's

really how we're going to change the world. Which leads to the next question, what are the next major shifts that are taking place in this field? What do you see as hey, here's an upcoming pivot or change in that world. Yeah, I would say continuing to move away from you know, an elite thing to something that all of us understand. But I also really believe in the

future of everyday philanthropy. And what I mean by that is that every little action or transaction you might go through in your day, if something good happens because you chose that brand or because you know, you went to this place, I think there's real power in that. So my friend Jose Andres, celebrated chef, has been down in Puerto Rico these last few weeks. UM. He posted last night that he thinks he served over a million meals.

When you have gone to Jose's restaurants in the last few weeks, you've been helping the people on the ground in Puerto Rico. So I really believe as more and more businesses and particularly consumer offerings bake into them some impact, it will draw I have this generation of consumers and make a big difference. So you talked earlier about failure. Tell us about a time you failed and what you learned from the experience. Well, I've had a lot, so

I'll just give you one quickly. Um, we had a very large clean water initiative at the Case Foundation, big high profile. To my left was President Clinton, to my right was first Lady Laura Bush. When we launched it, and it didn't go well, and it's a bit of a longer story, but I'll shorten it for you and just say that it really was an important moment in the history of the Foundation and for me personally, because it was so high profile, because we've had so many

engaged in the work. When we realized it wasn't working, we spent about a year trying to course correct, realized that wasn't happening. Finally had to come clean. So I yeah, exactly. UM. So I wrote a blog called the Painful Acknowledgement of Coming up Short, and I just aired out everything that

had failed. Um, And that was really the beginning of opening dialogue across our nonprofit and philanthropy sector around things that didn't work, because immediately I started getting phone calls and notes thanking me for talking about something that failed, and we knew we were onto something publicly, and I really feared quite the opposite. I feared that they would accuse me of waste, fraud, in abuse. I mean, I remember my finger on that sind button and I didn't

want to do it. Ultimately I did, and I looked back and it was one of the more important things we've ever done. Um And of course we don't like failure. We you know, we did test failure. We want excellence in all things, but we recognized to try to do big, extraordinary things. You're probably not going to bat a thousand. I have to respond to you with with two really

interesting points. One, if you read Ray Dalio's new book Principles or or his pdf on it I have, he discusses very early on, I mean fifteen years ago, the importance of acknowledging failure, learning from it, and moving on. And what I took from him some years ago was the opportunity to do a public Mia culta every year. Here's what I got wrong and here's what I learned from it. It's tremendously freeing because it allows you to call other people out, Hey, this is wrong, you're wrong

about this, this is now. You have the wrong conclusion here, because you're shielded from someone saying what makes you say you're so perfect? I'm not. I got all these things exactly. I talked about it. Did you find it was freeing to say, all right, here's where we messed up, and and here's the takeaway. Yeah, but I'm not going to kid you. It was really scary. And so I say that because, as you know, people out there listening no

matter where they are in their walk in life. It's not easy to do, but it is really worthwhile to do, is to acknowledge failure and make sure that you know failure matters to you and you learn from it, but that you also allow others to learn from your failure so they can avoid them. I think we are we don't know how to be wrong in I don't want to say just our society. Many societies right, And it's a skill set that that people have to learn. So let me get to my last two questions. These are

everybody's uh favorite questions. Tell us what you do to relax outside of the office. What do you do to stay mentally and or physically fit. I get out in nature. I'm a big lover of both state and national parks, and I spend a tremendous amount of time each year in them. Um. I love to hike, I love to kayak, I love to do all kinds of crazy things, but I need nature. I live in Washington, d C. And it's kind of a joke between me and my husband.

He knows I need a fix as the end of the week is coming and we have to get out. And then our final question. If a millennial came to you and said, or someone just beginning their career and said, I'm interested in filling the blank technology, venture capital, philanthropy, whatever, what sort of advice would you give them? Um, I would hopefully be encouraging in their path, but ask them to ask the question along the way, what impact can

you have in that role? You know, it's often believed that today to being a change the world environment, you need to be at an impact company or at a nonprofit or out on the front lines, when in fact, some of the ways you can most dramatically change the world is to go to traditional places and be the change maker within UM. And we need big brands, you know, having those kind of radical thinkers inside, people who are bringing a mission to their role, no matter where they

sit or what they do. We have been speaking with Gene Case. She is formally a senior executive at America Online and now is CEO of the Case Foundation. Thank you, Jean for being generous with your time. Appreciate it. If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and look up an Inch or down an Inch on Apple iTunes, over class, SoundCloud, wherever fine podcasts are sold, and you can see our

other hundred and sixty or so such previous podcasts. We love your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I would be remiss if I did not think my crack staff who helps me put together uh these conversations every week. Michael Batnick is my head of research. Taylor Riggs is our book of producer. Medina Parwana is our audio producer and engineer par Excellence. I'm Barry Riholts. You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.