Jazz Guitarist John Pizzarelli: Masters in Business (Audio)

We we touched on about half of the questions I wanted to get to. There's so much more stuff to talk about the music industry and how things are changing, what's going on with that entire shift to digital, and how the new world has just completely turned music upside down, especially in the realm of jazz, which isn't uh a popular music the way pop and rap and hip hop is today, but it is still something that is appreciated by people of finer taste and and understanding of music history. Anyway,

John was great. He spoke with us for about an hour and a half and graced us with a couple of songs on his um guitar. I think if you're a music fan at all, and if you're especially if you're a jazz fan, you're gonna find today's show especially delightful. So, without any further ado, my conversation with John Pizzarelli. This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is John Pizzarelli. He is a famous jazz guitarist vocalist who has played with ge just

about everybody in the world of music. I know we normally focus on people in finance and investing, but today we're gonna look at the business of music and jazz in particular. Um, welcome to Bloomberg. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. So a little background about John. You have recorded, let's see how wrong my my research. You've recorded twenty three albums of your own music, singing

solo albums. Yeah. You've appeared as either a featured guitarist or vocalist on forty other albums, and then you've appeared as a session player on and a bunch of other ones. Yeah. Um, you have in the past, you've toured extensively with your own trio, your own quartet. We'll talk a little bit about the big bands you're touring with now for the Sinatra centennial. We're doing some things right. We'll get to that. And you've also you've played with some of the biggest

names in the industry, haven't you. Well. I've opened for Frank Sinatra. I've played with Rosemary Clooney, James Taylor, Natalie Cole, Ricky Lee Jone said Paul McCartney. No one we've ever heard of that. No, yeah, some of you might know. But um and John is also in addition to the author of a book, World on a String about his adventures in the music world, he is also the host of a weekly radio program co hosted with the vocalist

Jessica Malasky, who also happens to be your wife. We share a bed there you go, and and a radio mike and um. You know, whenever I read reviews of yours, they always talk about your soft voice, your knack for up tempo swing, and your charming stage presence. There you go. That's the triple threat, there it is. So let's let's jump right into this. You come from a family of musicians. Your dad Bucky really well known Bucky Pizzorelli, famous guitarist,

literally played with everybody back in the day, still playing today. Yeah, he said he's played with everybody except Bing Crosby. I think was the only one that he missed. He missed along the way, so he um. At one point in time he was the guitarist for the Tonight Show band. He was on staff at NBC and uh so he played for the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson when it was in New York. Uh and then when they went to l A, he stayed here because the family was

pretty well rooted in New Jersey. I remember getting the person a person call from Doc Severance and looking for my father. And then when Doc came back a couple of years later, we went back to see him after the show and it was him and another trumpet player named Johnny Frost, and Doc looked at the two of them said, you're the only two guys I wanted to go to California. They wanted to stayed back. And your

uncle's also a professional musicians. My father's uncle's were One was a guitar player who went out with all the big bands. His name was Bobby Dominic, and then there was Peter Dominic who stayed around New Jersey and worked in the silk mills in Patterson, New Jersey, but on the weekends played gigs on the band Joe and music around the house constantly growing up, no getting away from it. Did you know you always wanted to be position or were there other temptations career wise? Now? I think I

just fell into doing it, you know, I was. It was the one thing when I was in high school. You play a dance, you'd make twenty five dollars, you get you know, you'd make fifty dollars if it was a big deal in nineteen seventy seven, fifty dollars in your pocket. So it was just something that we were doing. I was still playing baseball a little bit through high school. But evidently you have to be able to hit to

be a baseball player, especially the curveball. That's really tough to uh breaking even the fastball really So no baseball baseball career, going to play for the Red Sox, No, But but I am. It was just I had a lot of fun playing these gigs and uh and then I would still have gigs in bars around New Jersey and New York playing like cover bands and then make real money working with my father on jazz gigs. So what was the lure of rock and roll in those days?

So we're about the same age. Maybe I'm you got you were born at sixty and born, But we came up with the Beatles, the Stones. Who was there a giant lure of becoming a rock god? Well, I think what I wanted to do was I wanted to write songs, and I like Jackson Brown and James Taylor and Billy Joel,

Billy Joel probably in particular, and the Beatles. So I was writing all these songs, and I would I had equipment to do stuff in my room where I could set up and make demos of all these things, so I would I would quietly keep that thing going and try to figure out how I was going to eventually shop all that stuff, you know, and get it out there. But in the meantime I was out worker with my dad. My dad said I was the only guy playing jazz to support his rock and roll habit. You got the

way around. Well, that's kind of the way things have developed these days, Although you know it's not the business it was twenty years ago. It's totally changed what We're gonna definitely talk about that a lot more in in the upcoming segments. Um, let's talk about Nat King Cole in the last two minutes. We have huge influence on you. Oh yeah, Well that was the thing, is that one

I've heard the Nat called trio on record. It's a long story that I got to it, but there they were that records were re released in the Best of the Necking Col Trio Parts one and two. My father said, go find them. I found the records, brought them home, played them and he said, you understand, and I want that's it because it was it was the anti uh Night and Day and I get a kick out of you.

It was Root sixty six, Straighten Up a Fly right and from France, Sauce and and all these yeah, and all the songs that someone who was twenty could sing on gigs and things. It was. It fit me perfectly on jazz gigs, not on rock and roll, right on my debt, Yeah, and then even on my own little gigs I could start to play them too. I had this sort of eclectic repertoire because in that coal. So let's fast forward A few years later, was it you

release Dear Mr Cole. Yeah, then I had I had a group going and then uh Kyoshi here Kawa from the japan label of our c A recommended that I do A said we'd like to you to do a record with Benny Green and Chris McBride were real hot and fantastic jazz musicians. And after a long discussion, I said sure, okay, and they picked all the songs and I made this record. It was and at that time was it sold pretty well? It was a good record for me. I'm Barry rid Helpts. You're listening to Masters

in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is jazz guitarist and singer John Pizzarelli. We've been talking about his mentors and people who influenced him when he began his career. Let's start with your dad, Bucky Pizzarelli. What was it like having a father who was really a renowned jazz guitarist. Well, it was actually it was quite interesting because uh, you know, we didn't really know about like a lot of these people were coming over the house.

I think the like to have we always knew when Benny Goodman was coming over because we were all sent upstairs, don't come down, you know, so we knew, you know, Benny Goodman was somebody anyway, because he was the king of Swing, except when he was napping in your parents sleep on the you know, he'd come over. He keep the pants off and have the socks on still, so you wouldn't ruin the crease, you know, in the pants, right, but you'd have Less Paul and Zoots, Sims and slam Stewart.

And although they may not have been household days, Less Paul was uh, you still had these guys who had incredible careers and you really didn't know that much about their careers until like years later he said, Oh my god, I was sitting in a room with slam Stewart. The questions I could have asked this guy, you know. So it was really fun to be around the guys and and and the idea of watching them hang out together

was as fun as watching them play together. And it was it was in watching them hang out and saying, yeah, these are the guys I want to hang out with. So the only way to hang out with him was to learn Honeysuckle Rose. You had to learn their language and it was all those songs so you could sit in and then after the song you could listen to somebody tell a story. So that's why you wanted to

be part of that group. So who of this incredible rate of musicians coming through the Pizzarelli household in New Jersey? Who was an early mentor for you? Was it just your dad? Was it? I think the big one was that my my father was really the mentor because he he he always steered you in the right direction, you know.

And what I managed to do when we started to do gigs together, I always drove so in the dots in two ten and I would make cassettes of all these records that he was on, like just the track from this one, a track from that one, one with Zoot Sims, one with Joe Venuti, one with all these different guys, and I put it on and so you want to hear some music? Yeah, boom, and when I drive and he'd listened to it because he didn't really listen to the records that he made. They were all

in the house. I said, what was it like working with that guy? Oh? Well, I tell you all. That guy was unbelievable, you know, you tell a Joe Venuti story. He talked about Zoot Sims and the guys who were making the music that supported all the great guys like Ben Crosby and Frank Sinatra or Woody Herman or Nat Cole.

Were these guys who were all in the house, you know, so it was interesting to know hear them play, and then hear what they had to say about all those guys, and then and you've got more excited about being around them and learning them. You know, you always heard this style of music like swing jazz made popular by a Count Basie and Oscar Peterson and Benny Goodman played at such a high level you were like, well, that's what I want to do. I mean, that's it's not old

fashioned to me. That's you know, when you hear it played like that, it's as good as anything and still contemporary and still minron and not at all dated. Now, every now and then you'll hear an old scratchy recording and you'll hear you could hear how data it is. But when and we'll talk about your band in the next segment, But when I hear some of your contemporary arrangements of either the Great American Songbook or anything that

Sinatra did from the songbook. They're very fresh, they're very modern. It doesn't seem at old dated. Well, we use that the guys who all participate in the making of those records, who arranged and do those things, are guys who come from the same place from studying that stuff, wanting to be part of that, or playing with famous people when they were young also and said well, I want to take that as a foundation and go from there. It's

the same thing with me with the net Coultrial. We use it as a foundation, you know, through my twenties and early thirties, and then took off from there when we started to apply it to other people who were influential and things like that. So, so let's talk about some of the people you've met and played with. You mentioned you met Les Paul when you were young. Did you ever get to sit in with him? Yeah, we, my father and I did a couple of times. Uh.

We went to a uh. He used to play all over the place, and we we actually played together a place called the Hanover Trail Steakhouse in Ramsey, New Jersey. He was playing there on a Sunday night with his son and he had all you know, all those tapes making all that music, and he was playing how high the Moon and everything, and he saw my dad and I said, you gotta come play, Come on up, and

we got up played with him. The funny thing was is that I saw him play once with a musician where if the musicians started to get too fancy, he would pull his plug out on the guitar so the sound would go dead. So I was saying, I don't want to be purpose. Yeah, so I wouldn't want to sit next to where he could pull the plug out, so I sat on the other side of him. So instead when I was playing and people were like applauding while I was playing, he just started de tuning my guitar.

One of my great regrets. When I first moved into the city a hundred years ago, I lived on seventeenth and third unless Paul played every Tuesday at Tuesday's. It was one of those things, Oh it's it's right there, like the corner fiftt oh, I gotta go. Never won my one one of my biggest musical It is one of the great things about the city is that they there's the things that go on like that, and you say,

I gotta go there. I want to do that. It's right here, and unless you make a concerted effort, it doesn't happen. Um. So you you got to see Benny Goodman in his underwear, But did you ever get to play with I played with him once. We were going to a gig in Connecticut. My fast, let's stop see Benny. We pulled into Benny's place. I think he called and said we were come. And Benny was sitting in a chair and he would always try to find a read for his clarinet. He always looking for the perfect read.

And we had the guitars, and he said, get the guitars, and we were sitting there and he started to play avalon and so we were following along one of his big songs that he always play, and my father played. He pointed the clarinet towards my father. My father started to play a little solo and he was listening, and then after my father was done, he like looked at me, like, okay, you have to play now. So I got to play a little solo in Benny Goodman's living room. That was

close I got. We opened for him on a number of concerts, so that was fun too. It was the first time I got to Los Angeles, was opening for Benny Goodman with my father, and then Rosemary Clooney is somebody else you did an album of duets with in addition to supporting her as a that was guitars for

a while. Once again, Bucky Pitzarelli couldn't do the two weeks, all of the the ten nights of a two week run, so I subbed two nights in a row, and on the second night and literally my father said, this is exactly what you will play, so here now, this is it. Now play it back. Okay, don't do anything else. So I played and the second night I actually she actually said, you have a new record out. I want you to come out to uh California and sing at our singer

salute songwriters. And it's like, okay. She was just totally up on the new album. Like within a day someone said he's got a record out. I just read about it, and she was from then on as generous as anyone was to me. For it must have been almost twenty years. I knew in your book you very much imply, but you never explicitly state that a lot of these oh I can't make that gig, can you substitute? Was really your dad kind of teeing you up with some of

these people. Yeah, I mean I think that's true. Uh, it's it was really a lot. It was really fun on the various occasions that those things would happen, and then you know, then he would bring me along also, aside from just subbing. He'd he'd say, you know, we got this gig, and he'd say, I'm gonna bring my kid with me. He's gonna play some duets. And so that happened a number of times where you know, some guys are going, oh, who's this twenty four year old

with him? And then we you know, we had worked so much, we were prepared to do anything. You know, we play four hour gigs, so when we had to play thirty minutes somewhere, we were bulletproof. I'm Barry rid Halts. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is John Pizzarelli. He is a highly regarded jazz guitarist and vocalist, specializing in, amongst other things, the Great American Songbook. And here we are. It's two

thousand fifteen. It is the centennial of Frank Sinatra's birthday, and about a decade ago you released an album, Dear Mr Sinatra. How how was that received? Actually, that was received quite well. I think you can put your name put Sinatra's name still means something. And in that particular case, it was the right time for me to make that record. And it was a unique record in that we didn't

uh copy any of the old arrangements. We had new arrangements written by John Clayton from Who's a great bass player from West Coast and a ranger, and that their band, the Clayton Hamilton Jazz Orchestra. So I wanted to use a specific band with a specific sound, and inside of that homage was basically based on the songs that were written for Sinatra by people like Sammy Cohn and Jimmy van Heusen. So we used end psy Coleman, So we had Witchcraft and we Small Hours and Ring a Ding

Ding and the Last Dance. So there were these songs specifically written for Sinatra and then other ones from other records. So you eventually get the call to open for Sinatra on a tour. I guess they thought um in Europe, perhaps the Germans weren't too keen on a stand up comic and they didn't have any there's no such thing as a German comics and Don Rickles probably not the right guy for that crowd, to say the least, let's trouble.

So yeah, I got lucky because the the uh I was with our c A here in the United States. They were owned by the Bertelsman group of m BMG based in Germany, and uh so the guy over their heinz hen Sugges six said, uh, Pitza really should do it. We were good friends. I had done a bunch of things over there, and sure enough at all worked itself out and I did a month tour of Europe to lead up to doing the six dates in Germany. So it was, it was. It was really amazing because I

couldn't believe it was gonna happen. And then you're in the room and there you know. The rehearsal. The first rehearsal was that was the best because we brought we put out the charts. I sat down, I stood in front of the band. In the first row was Frank Sinatra Jr. And Bill Miller, who was Sinatra's longtime piano player, and we played the charts down. Took us as long as it was going to take in the show. It

was like twenty five minutes. I said, sounds great, fellas, thanks a lot, and Frank Sinatra Junior says, that's it. I said, they sound great, and he's like, jeezus, was Shirley mcleand you another two hours and it still wouldn't be right. So we were laughing about that. But it was exciting. I said, all the bands, you know, after the with Sinatra's and it was amazing. You know, you tell a story about and I'm trying to remember if

this was either in concert or in the book. You're in like Atlanta, Georgia, somewhere it's a million degrees and he doesn't want to do rehearsal. It's too damn high. He came in and uh it was. It's a six thousand seat outdoor venue called chas Stain Park. We got in a day early, so they got us Sara to rehearse. I was rehearsing, someone said Frank's here, get the hell off the stage, just like that. So it was like, you know, plates cups, everything's been in some we went

running out. He had a jacket on the back that said hurry up and wait, and it was literally a hundred degrees and he and that he had even a wind break around was amazing, and he started singing like he was going to imagination. It's funny. And Junior, his son they called him Junior, turned around and put his fist in front of Sinatra's face and said, you've got to fight it. And Sinatra looked at him like, okay, what do you want? What do you want? And he said, uh,

what does America to mean? How I live in And we were way out, just the six of us eating a pizza in the middle of the six thousand empty seats, and Sinatra sang three glorious songs. He's sang that one Camarader com Shine and luck be a Lady. We were crying. It was so brilliant that way just knocked it out of the park. We were weeping into our pizza. And then he said, throw another log on the air conditioner and he walked off. So you actually played with him

also for a while. I opened the shows. I opened the twelve shows in the States and the twelve in the thing. And my last number was always sing, sing, sing, and I'd be playing that and I'd look into wings and there was Sinatra snapping his fingers, and he would always come out and say, it wasn't that fantastic. We always go boy, we could have We could have been easily sent back to the States at any time. Now, the first time you met him, he was you. You

described that as a kind of interesting. Yeah, well, I, after this long walked down the hallway and his man, Hank Tanio, the head production guy, was fantastic fellow in a deduced me and we just sort of shook hands Sanatra and I and and uh, he just sort of looked at me and grumped, you know. And I was about to walk away, and he said eat something, you look bad, and and then I walked away where everybody was laughing. That was like, basically it that's the words

of wisdom. You have something to eat, you don't look too good. That's great. I'm Barry rid Holts. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is John Pizzarelli. He is a renowned guitarist vocalist rock contour who has pretty much played with everybody in the music industry. Let's talk continue what we were discussing earlier about opening up for Frank Sinatra on the European and an American tour. What did that mean to you personally?

You mentioned he was a hero of viewers for so long and and how did it impact you professionally? Oh, I think it's it was a big deal, you know. I mean the thing for me is was trying to realize that there was no room for I'm so nervous that it's Frank Sinatra. I mean, we really had to go out and do your twenty minutes. Whatever they said went, you know, and you knew, uh, no fooling around, no fooling around, and no, there was really no time for uh butterflies. You just really had to go out and

do the show and get it done and uh. And it was also one of the you know, the most people I'd played in front of, you know, in in uh where were we in uh Hamburg? In the back of Derby Park. We played along the backstretch of of a race track and there was twenty thousand people there. So you're going, oh, it's twenty people. You know. I was just in uh, nobody's in in Mahwa in front of the sixteen beer drinkers, So it was you know,

those kind of things. It was like, oh, yeah, you know, this is if this is where you desire to go, here you are now do what you do. So it was really, uh, it was interesting to be put in that situation without any you know, and just go, okay, you're gonna open for Frank Sinatra. And there were people like when we did in the States too, uh you know, you my friend was on an elevator with two guys to see the kid wasn't so bad. You know, he wasn't so nervous. You know, people were really watching to

see what the hell was going on. So that was sort of what was interesting about it was just that you know, you've worked your life to get to this point. Now you have to deliver and what about um some of the overlap between music did they must have really run a tight hand on your set list. They didn't, but I did because I made I had to think, well, I'm not going to do all of me only because he's made a great record. All of me and my allarmy is not going to match up to people going well,

that's what that was. So I had three little words. I opened with an instrumental I did, uh, I think the group played if I had you uh we I know. We closed with sing Sing, Sing, and we had something else in the middle that we we tried to stay away from. We had a little baby medley that was really great that Bill Miller particularly liked. Uh So I had a little Basie thing in it. So it was pretty much just trying to steer clear of anything that was too reminiscent of what Sinatra was doing, and it

worked out pretty well. We had just enough stuff to to make that happen. And you had a fun little song you used to play called I Like Jersey Best, which was a musical tribute slash parody and we you know, my buddy Joe Cosgra wrote the song and we had been following us around New Jersey and it was and when we opened at the Garden State Arts Center, it was the one time when I said, if if I do this song, they're gonna love it, and Sinatra's gonna kill me. I just didn't want to go near it,

so I was all set. My father actually did that night with us, which was really terrific. So we had it all set up. We were already it was just about to go on, and one of the ushers comes backstage and says, oh, by the way, Brendan Burns in the audience tonight, which is a line in the song. He's in the song and he knows from Governor it's in our beautiful arena. Now it's had Brendan Burne carved on the wall. So I knew he was like he wanted to hear his song, you know, and hear his name.

I was like, oh, I gotta do the song now Brendan Burns here, so I get and then in the middle of the thing I did. I got away with it. But it was one of those things where I was trying to figure out, you know, I don't want to get too cute here. You know, you get a little too cute with Sinatra and it's not no, you never not have got a mess with yeah. So and that could have taken Uh, if the crowd liked it too much, it could have been big trouble. He might not have

been too happy. So it worked out just right, and uh, the whole thing was fantastically but you know, it was funny. Once we closed opening for Rosemary Clooney, we closed with sing Sing, Sing with the big band, and as I walked up, she was flaudy. She was like, that was really true. Ific, You'll never ope for me again, So you know she was almost kidding. The last, the last thing an opener wants is the crowd really enthusiastic and want you just settle them in and get out of

the way please. That's hilarious. So now let's talk a little bit about the future music and what's going to be going on with all these changes. Really, the first question I have to ask is is it the audience taste that's changing? Is it the technology that's changing? What

is it that's driving as flux in the music industry? Well, I think the one thing that works for me, since I'm not someone my music, I'm not record sales don't generate what I do, which is the which is you know, I make my records just so that they're almost like calling cards. You can say he's got a new record coming out, He'll come promoted at your club. And they end having done this now for twenty five years, they know what I'm gonna do. My My thing is about

live performance. That's the one thing that they can't take away from what goes on with everything else. So when when I was a kid, the story was when we were kids, when that's right where we're about the same age, you would a new record would come out and a band would tour to promote the record. Right where you're describing is the exact opposite. Hey, we want to go on tour. Let's put out a record so we have

something to talk about on the road. Yeah. They was, well, does he have a new album out and can come back if he has a new album out? And so, and it really isn't about I mean for me, the I think the most records of one record might either Bossonova or the Sinatra record was up around between forty and fifty thousand. That's a lot of records for me. That's the first of yours I've ever bought. Well there hence why those sales were so good. I mean, I

think there's like Sinatra and Bossanova. Are you know they're they're gold as they say, it's gold, Jerry, But it's uh, that's the thing. So I've had a couple of and then that whole records worked very well for me. So but now, uh, it's a different ballgame and it's mostly about getting out to performance. That's the one thing they can't changes. You can't download live performance and have the same experience as being at a live performance. You know,

that's the thing. So you know, when you get people in the room to hear Sinatra music and you have the best guys in New York, that's how you make your career. You gotta you. I've spent a lot of money putting those getting those arrangements together. I have so many arrangements written by Don Sebeski or John clay and really good arranged, solid arrangements. So when you go play with the Boston Pops, you gotta play with the New York That's where your investment is. So people go, wow,

it was really great. I wonder if he can do a Gershwin show because that Roger's show was fantastic. Let's get him back next year. You know, you spend so let's talk about that. So when you buy an arrangement, when you have somebody create an arrangement for you, is that yours and yours exclusively or is it like an architect, is he selling that same plan to other people? Well a one off. John Clayton has sold some of like

some of those charts like nice and easy. I know that he's made some of them available, which is fine. You know that he's made them available to people to buy. So like I think one or two of those charts or he's put out there my things I get, uh, mostly like the Don Sebeski things, the things that I worked for Higher, I get them. I keep them, so you own them. No one else has that arrangement, right,

And sometimes someone say can I borrow your charter? About Yeah, sure, I'll let my friend borrow what to play with a college band or something like that. But mostly it's all worked for Higher. So like when you make a record, you want to spend you know, you really want to make sure you get great rangers because they're gonna follow year round for twenty five years. So I mentioned I'm

a big fan of Radio Deluxe. That's weekly syndicated over quite a number of stags forty stations, and it's on what they call, uh is it mixed cloud mixed cloud dot com. You can punch in Radio Deluxe and here the show, and there's several past shows there too. So uh, it's just with something where they wanted to bottle what it was that my wife and I were doing. We started doing it at fine Stein's in our nightclub act. You know, she'd say hello, I'd say hello. People would

laugh and say that's great. You know, so we we they and they, you know, talk to some people and then the next thing, you know, and behind them mic going from high top lexing an avenue. You're in the deluxe living room. It's Radio Deluxe. How you doing, Jessica? And she'd talk and then say, well, you know, that reminds me of that Frank Sinatra record. Let's play it now. And so, but it's for people may not be familiar with it. First of all, you go to Radio Deluxe

with John Pezzareli dot com. If that if I'm getting the U r L John Pittsrareli dot com, and then you click on Radio Deluxe okay, And there appears to be a lot of thought and a lot of consideration that goes into the selection. It's not just all right, let's put the shuffle mix on and see what comes out. There's an arc and a story that gets told across two hours of music. Um, what what I do? I work early in the morning at my computer Sunday. That

comes out on Monday morning. I have a teat up and I listened to it all week until I finish, uh, you know, each morning. It's my my background us. You know, that's the thing. We talk about it, you know, we don't. It's one of those things where we we haven't made

a dime on it. We do it all at home, and every time we say, you know, we have to do this show again, we gotta set up the stuff, you know, because we're just knuckleheads, you know, we just you know, but people tell us these stories we've had.

We're talking about it just today, you know, where somebody will say, you know, I take my I go visit my mother in this home and then on Sunday nights I leave or there, you know, I say goodbye and coincides with you being on the radio here in Illinois, and that two hour drive back is Radio Deluxe, and I just think, oh so changes my attitude after what I had to do, you know, and we just get these letters and go what we it's you know, we call it the Brokeback Radio Program. We can't quit it.

It's just crazy. We can't quit it. We've been speaking with John Pizzarelli. He can be found at John Pizzarelli dot com. Be sure and check out Radio Deluxe is his weekly radio show. It's free. You can access it online. His book is World on a String, and check out his entire discography. I'll put a few links to some of my favorite CDs. UH. If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and stick around. We'll continue it on the

podcast extras. Check out my daily column on Bloomberg View dot com, um or follow me on Twitter at Ridolts. I'm Barry Ridhults. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. Hi, welcome to the podcast portion of our show.

I'm really excited about our guests this week, and you guys know I listen, I usually speak with someone from finance or the world of business or investing, but I wanted to work a little bit outside of that box, and for that purpose today I brought in John Pizzarelli. Full disclosure, I've seen his show three or four times over the years, and each one has been just wonderful. There's so much stuff to go over with you. I'm gonna I'm gonna embarrass you a little bit, and then

we'll talk about some other stuff. UM. First, I mentioned in the intro to the radio portion. Everybody describes your charming stage presence. You really have become like this storytelling rock con tour. I want to say, almost a third of the show is you telling stories. How did that? How did that ever develop? Um? I think it was.

I always like that version of it. I mean, actually I was a fan of it started with the early Cosby records, and then it went to the George Carlin records, and then I used to watch Carson all the time, and I used to love these monologues and these little stories that you know, saturated the programs, and I like the idea of trying to set up songs or you know, of do this little these bits that you know, settled people in a little bit, gave him an idea of

what was going on. And maybe it was a joke or maybe it was a it was just a fact that was well presented that made people go, oh, well, I really want to hear what's going on now? Now I can hear. Oh, that's what that was. So that's where that came from. How was that song written? That's an interesting thing. So the more I hung around people like Jonathan Schwartz, who was on radio here. I would try and pay attention, or I would give him a call and say, you know, you kept talking about that song.

How does that song get to Sinatra? And he would tell me a story about it. You know, there's several different versions. So and I would add these things, would read things, find things that were funny or or of interest that made interest to me that I could throw into a show. That would I just love that part of the thing because I think people go, well, not only just heard the songs I didn't hear you. Here's another great song. You know, this is a great song.

Here's another great song. Didn't want to sound like that. I wanted to say, you know what's interesting about this song? Is this? You know you tell a story? Was it the Smithsonian with somebody's piano? Yeah? My my piano player. A couple of years ago, Ray Kennedy and we went to the Smithsonian. I think I heard you tell this about seven years ago. Six years yeah, probably more than that. And I where we we went to the thing? The Smithsonian. They said that's Gershwin's piano and you you why don't

you play it? And so Ray stepped over the ropes who said this to Ray? The person in the place said, go play there. You know you can play it okay, So he stepped over the ropes. As he stepped over the ropes and up there was this thing. It said, step away from the piano and the lights are flashing. Get away from the piano, and they said, don't worry, it goes away. He's okay. So he sat down the piano when he went by, dude and he started to play this beautiful stride version of they can't take that

away from me. And we always laugh because then we were hoping the voice would say, do you know I got rhythm? It was just so great. And these are the sort of you know, the things that run into you know, they all these things happen, you know, the gigs with Bucky at the Pierre when I was first twenty years old, Pierre Hotel. So you're barely out of high school and you're playing professional gigs with your dad.

I did an entire summer with him in night and uh uh it was you know, I knew seven songs for a four hour gig, and he would just pound melodies out at me and go, you don't know this, you know under his breath, and I'm wearing tuxas. Oh, I know, yeah, I'm just trying to find chords. You know. It was ear training every night, every night. Oh, it was unbelievable that that's amazing. So so I know how you found jazz. It was in your house. So growing up in the sixties, it was all about rock and roll.

My mother had gone to music and art. He played piano and tom's and saxophone, but piano was her instrument. And um it's funny because I go off to college and grad school, and back then everybody is completely broke. Your poor put yourself through state school and then grad school, and we all would swap albums and record them, and

I borrow. It's really a funny story. I borrow a triple disc from a friend, Linda Ronstat with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra doing What's New for sentimental reasons and lush life, um round midnight, round midnight, And um see, I have the advantage of having gone back and looked at all my purchases not long and I think I've discovered the greatest music ever played. And I go home to play it from my mother. I'm gonna rest my mom, who

mocks every rock and roll song. Yeah, yeah, three chord progressions. Find me something more interesting. Every now and then she would say, who's the guy with the flute? I I don't normally hear that. That's See and Anderson Jeffer. So I play her Linda rons that and she shrugs and rolls her eyes. I'm like, this is the Jerome current and gersh when these are these are Rogers and Heart, these are your people. So every song on that triple

disc album, I'm not exaggerating, every single song. She I would play a song and she goes, go listen to the Sarah Boon version of I played another song, Ella, that's the Defender version. Go listen to Ella. Um? Who else did she did? Would she send me to Billy Holland, go down the list, Frank Sinatra? And each and every

time I would play a song. And then not that much later, not that many years after that, I'm out of grad school and I finally have two nickels to rub together, and I get the Lla Fitzgerald's Great American Songbook. It's sixteen CDs. It's like the most expensive thing I've ever bought, including furniture, And I tell you now it's on CDs. We've advanced that far. And I started playing it and I'm like, oh my god, my mother was right about everything. I have to go rethink my entire

childhood because if she's that right about this. But it's the beauty of the record, you know, it's it's the other thing is that Linda ronstat knew that Nelson Riddle was important and she had to make records with him. And so the fact that those three records got you to those sixteen is the whole is why the thing works,

you know. It's the other thing about our radio program Radio Deluxe is that you can play Sinatra, and you can play nat Cole, Louis Armstrong and Elephvitzgerald and say, now these people you can go to h Kurt Elling or Tyranny Sutton or Stacy Kent or Curtis Steiger's or you just had Curtis Steiger. Was it last week or

this week? Yeah? Probably last week. You know that you you find these people now they see that they are the ones who heard those records that are doing this, and then we try to cross it, you know, and the same thing how you can even get to believe it or not, You can get to Joni Mitchell from Annie Ross, because Lambert Henderson Ross was direct influence on Joni Mitchell. So these things all across poliny. And that's why it's so fun about the show is that that

was what you're talking about. How Linda rons That got you to Sarah Vaughan is the same way how uh you know, Ella Fitzgerald got you to Jane Mondhud. There was there was actually in between Ella and the Linda Ronstadt was the Nelson Riddle Sinatra trilogy, which I liked, and your friend got into trouble for blasting the third one, which I always thought was good but the weakest of the three. So the Sinatra trilogy, And again that was one of those things you the first time you hear that,

you're like, oh my god, this is amazing stuff. How come I'm not hearing this on the radio. It was recorded thirty years ago. Oh I it doesn't have last thing. You should still be hearing that sort of stuff, So that that's pretty amazing. It was um and Jonathan Schwartz I think got fired over that or suspended, suspended for like six months, I think for trashing that third said it was I think he said it was a piece of garbage or something. Really didn't like it, and and

well it was clearly the weakest of that. Well he didn't like he's he's not a Gordon Jenkins fan, and Gordon Jenkins wrote all that music for that, and so he was sort of like, I'm not didn't I want to hear more of the the jerome current In the end, there's because he was. Jonathan still said, you know, there's he has the list of songs that Sinatra has never recorded. You know, there's no record of s wonderful, there's no the more I see you, so he's like, there's there.

Why not those songs? Where were they? You know? So it just should have been done. Since I brought up my mom, she said, Um, her favorite pianist was George Shearing, and she wants to know why you didn't record Lullaby burn Land with him. I think there's enough of records of that for there's a there's a ton of that. She goes, I just always loved his I'm gonna say this wrong. The augmented chords a non musician, I don't

know what that means. Well, and the whole thing about the sound of that, the way the piano and the vibe er phone and the guitar played together was a very unique sound. And well to Buy a Bird Lamp being his big hit, I chose be Careful It's My Heart because that was from a record we had in the house of the Sharing group, so we homage that. And then the other one was, uh, there were a

lot of songs on that, If Dreams Come True. Yeah, So there's a lot of songs on that, and that's one of those c D things you know, we need twenty more minutes, you know, but uh, if Dreams Come True was based on it's the arrangement that he did with Peggy Lee. So there a couple like that that I picked out, and then a couple of new ones too. So you know, that's the thing You've got so many choices with with George, you know, he was just great

to say the least. Um, So you ever change the show or a song and response to audience reaction during the show or for the rest of the tour, how do how does that happen? Yeah? I mean I think, well, you know, when you're promoting a record in particular, like if we promote a record, there was one called double Exposure where we ended up doing songs like Harvest, Harvest,

Moon Freeman in Paris. Uh, there was one. There was a Beatles song on there called I Feel Fine, and then we did the Tom Wait's song into a Ellington song. We had a Drunk on the Moon, so that into Lush Life and out back to Drunk on the Moon. So you would play them live and you'd say, Okay, that one didn't seem to go over so well, but everybody seemed to like the Lush Life and the Tom Waits things, so we keep that one. And so you'd start, like when you really start to go places and think

you're gonna pick these five from that record. Sometimes you know there's some people don't like one in particularly. I try to do all of them and then see what happens. So it does change from time to time, and then you keep the good ones in and then you can, uh, you hope that you're going to add other ones along the way. You know, are you ever surprised at what works and doesn't work? Sometimes think hey, this is great and the audience doesn't respond. Other throwaways they just love right.

It's actually, you know what's surprising is this this Johnny Mercer thing. I literally went into Birdland last year and recorded UH twenty Johnny Mercer songs, Don Sebeskie Arrangement's four Horns rhythm section, and uh I put it out myself. I just said I needed something to get me to the next record, but I said, this is a good little piece of business, and song after song absolutely killed. I mean, I was so like, where was this record? Years ago? I did a record Rogers Richard Rodgers that

wasn't as popular as this. You know, it's just amazing. They they're they're maybe it's just the idea that there's enough oddball materials. I call it the weird you know, the outside of the lines things, as well as the hits that people go, oh, I love Skylark, I love I thought about you. And then you say, well, what's this I got out of bed on the right side, what's this other one? Slew foot? Where's that from? And you set them up and all of a sudden, people,

oh that's great. I just shake my head. I go, Okay, thank God for that. It's been around forever and nobody really is and here's you know, there's books of uh. Well, I made the thing last year, so I just put it out. Uh, it's been fun to tour around, you know, so it's like, well, that'll work, that'll play for a while. I can well, the songs are not exactly written last month, The Goody Goody and people are go Nuts. You know

it was written in the thirties. You know. That's the other thing too, that's important about I think the presentation that you've gotta you know, if you lead him in the right directions. It doesn't matter what what songs you're doing and when they were written, but if you let them know where you're headed, I think that's the most important thing. I think if you tell them here's where we're going, trust me, and eventually they'll say, oh, well that Harvest Moon thing was really good. Oh that's a

Neil Young song. Oh that was all right. I sort of like that one, So that's good. You know, you gotta let them know because you know there's there are died in the wool uh songbook people. You know, I don't like anything written after Okay, well try this one, and you know, and you hope that you can lead him in the right direction. You played something recently on the show from I Want to Say. Her name is

Katie Melua Malula. Oh yeah, my wife plays that one. Yeah, so I recognized her voice immediately and I have to punch her name into my iTunes. She does this amazing cup She's got this beautiful, lilting voice. She does this cover of a Cure song. And I don't know how well you know the Cure, but it's like relentlessly depressing emo eighties sort of stuff like it was, or maybe even nineties sort of stuff, and um was it trying

to remember the name of the song. It was off a kiss Me, kiss Me, kiss Me, and it's just this normally, um just depressing, terrible. I mean, I was a Cure fan, but they were just like you how to be willing to right that, like, all right, I'll play a song and that's that. You're gonna move on. And her version is just so amazing. And you find that sometimes with cover songs that you get somebody just taking a completely different spin, like like the Neil Young song.

People who may never listen to Neil Young might appreciate the sort of the sort of stuff he does if it's presented in in a way that's more palatable today. Well, you know. And the thing is is that you're trying to get the people who listen to Neil Young or who were interested in that and who go the same do the same thing that they did with the Ron Stack record. For you is like they go, oh, well, that was sort of interesting that you put a jazz song,

say with I Feel Fine. We put a little thing up front of the sidewinder, which is a Lee Morgan cut, and then they go, oh, well, maybe they're going to discover something else. I was really felt that way about the Beatle Record. I thought the Beatle Record because we we were mixing in Woody Herman into the Woody Herman band, we were putting the BASSI band sound, we had orchestra things. I really thought we were presenting the Beatles in a completely new way. And in the United States they were

a little freaked out by it. I always say, you know, I have no idea, but you know it is lasted. It is. It's the most love hated record that I have out there. But you know, the the happy ending for me was when I worked with Paul McCartney. The first day he walked into the studio, he's they said, Paul McCartney, jump Itzareil, And he said, you made a Beatles c D. And I said, yes, I did, and he said it's very good, and he walked away, and I was like, well that day started out quite fine,

you know. So that's on. I have a hit. I have the problem with the Beatles songs is that you know them so well that when you hear it and it's different, it can be jarrsh So I have two different Beetles c D covers that I played just for that reason. This is one of them and the other one. I don't know if you know um Larry J. Belle LJ is his nickname. He's when Paul McCartney was playing with Wings, he was his guitar And you know, look

I'm talking to you would appreciate this. This is just pure, just one guy, no over dub acoustic guitar playing the rhythm and the vocals on guitar, and like yours, they're very different, They're very fresh and I know that song, but this is a completely different version of it. The problem with the covers are they usually sound too much like the original. Yeah, they just copy the original, and

what's the value of that. Somebody did a great cover said, well, it's the same thing, right, that's always, you know, so we we actually try to homage things in and out inside little little hints that we know. You know. The hard thing for me was not singing like the Beatles sing you very much do a jazz version of the Beatles, not a cover versions. And that was the idea. That's

what jazz records are. You know, if you took all of me, you wouldn't do somebody else's record of all of me, or it had be you or something you would you know, you would say, here's my version of it. So you're on the road pretty pretty often, you do a hundred and fifty or so? Is that right? So are you what do you do to keep killed time on the road? Do you read? Do you listen to music? What? What? What occupies your time? Uh, let's see, that's a very good question. Wait, you know we we've I do try

to read a very I've read. I read a cooking book was the last book I read by the woman who owns Prune. Her name is Gabrielle Hamilton's so I liked her and I read about how she got into cooking because I really am interested in that. I like to you know, I'm always working on the next thing. So I'm sometimes looking at music or reading, you know, listening to what I just recorded, and uh, seeing what

needs to be done on those things. So there's a lot of business that gets done during the day and sometimes and sometimes I just sit in a room and I can watch Sports Center until the cows come home. Really, you know, that's I don't be about that with all my guests. There's always three or four questions I ask everybody, and I'm going to ask you a version of them here. So, someone who's a millennial just getting out of college now and is interested in the career of music, what sort

of advice would you give them? Well, they've they've probably studied since high school, what what kind of music they like? Because they can do that now, you know, you can you can pretty much discover what you're into at such an earlier age, I think. So I think the thing is is to uh, is to get out and play. Is to find places to play where you can spend

a couple of hours in a room. The more you play in front of people, I feel that that's always that's you know, you can practice all you want in the room and you're gonna goh, I sounds so good today, you know, playing in in my living room, But the second you get in front of somebody in your hand starts to sweat a little bit, and you know, you

drop your pick and everybody's looking at you. I think that it's just about trying to find ways to get out there and play, find groups to play with, or or if you're guitarist or piano players, solo gigs whatever. You know, it's very difficult to play a solo gig for four hours, so you know, you've got to build a repertoire. And that's all. Those things are things that

I did. Anyway, I thought they were very useful, and by the time I was ready to step into my own thing, I felt a little more comfortable because I had been doing it already for a long time. So get out and play in front of people. Um. We talked about some of the changes in the industry, but um, what changes have there been within the music industry and what future changes do you expect that's going to alter the way people listen to and and find music. I

think the there's uh the fact that it's funny. My friend the other day set up his stereo in his room because his son moved out finally, you know, one of those things. And he said, you know, when I put up the speakers, like I used to have bookshelf speakers, and I had a I had a my CD player and an amplifier and turned it on and I was like, oh my god, music in the room. You know. Everybody

listens with headphones. It's so weird how people listen, you know, and they don't and those are terrible sound quality, yeah, you know, but I mean you can get good headphones, but like nobody sits in their room, it seems to me, and puts on their stereo and goes, okay, music with you know. I went to Radio Shack at twelve in speakers, bookshelf speakers. They were so great to listen to, you know. It's just the way people listen. And what do they

listen on. Do they download immediately to a device? Are they They're rarely buying actual product anymore. So that's the weird thing too, is that I'm lucky because my people who come to my gigs want to get something. At the end, they'll buy the CDC, you'll sign it and take it home. Oh I got something, you know, and you how long have you been doing that? You every time I've seen you, you actually hang around after the show, people waiting online and they you chat, you take selfies,

you do what have you? When? Did when did that come about? It's are it's been whenever we could get the records there, we do it. I mean I've been saying, you know, for the most part, that's the way to meet.

The people are coming to hear you, and then you know, you'll meet Like at the Tiller Center, you meet people say, you know, twenty years ago it was me, and now I'm bringing my kids or you know, I decided I knew my parents would like this, so I brought them here and they were like, yeah, we couldn't believe how good this was. You know, it's really sweet. So I like to see what's going on. Who's coming to these concerts. You know, how old are they, how young are they?

You know, are they been here for a long time? Is this their first time? It's it's really I do my own little thing. I mean, I don't write down what it is, but it's interesting to see who's coming. And but that means a gig that starts at eight that you finish on stage at ten you're not leaving the place till eleven thirty and nine. Sometimes yeah, you know, sometimes it's just a bunch of people. The Tilla Centers,

it was. It was wild. It was this this long line of people, and I was just amazed at it that people were that patient about it. But I say, listen, I'm not going to go anywhere. So if you're patient, I'm patient. You know, I know it's important to them. I would love to go to a Pat Metheny concert and see patmthany afterwards. You I want to say, you know that kind of thing. So, uh, it's really interesting. I mean, I'm very I love that, you know, because of who I am, I can go backstage at most

places and at jazz concerts anyway. But I mean it's nice. I like to make myself available because it's important to keep it all going. So I never do that. And this one show, I like, I said, this is the third or fourth time I saw you. I said to my wife, I go, wow, look all these people winning online. She's like, do you want to do that? I go, why would I do that? Am I going to ask him to be on the radio? And she goes, yeah, why don't you ask him to be on the radio.

Oh you know, that's a good idea. So you have your wife, I have mine, for occasionally reminds me, I'm an idiot. Get online, get a c D, get online and invite him on the show. Okay, good, good idea. Here we are. Um. So the last question I always we're gonna, we're gonna get the guitar out and play a song or two. But the last question I asked everybody, and I always get some interesting responses, is what do you know about your chosen field, your industry today that

you wish you knew when you were starting out. I think the thing the thing that I know I don't know, you know. I think that I think that I thought I knew everything when I was starting out, Like when I made my first record called all of Me on Our c A, which was a big deal for me. I really thought that I had I had my handle on it. I mean I really thought I was. I really felt confident about it. But I realized actually when I made my first I didn't really sing well. And

I don't think that like singing got any better. I really felt took a while to get good at it. Whereas I thought at the very beginning I was. I thought, well, it's you know, it's really good, and I go back and listen to it. A good boy. Boy, I'm lucky to still be standing here, you know. So it was interest sting that tryst. I really thought I knew a lot of the beginning, but I don't. I didn't really

know that much. I really learned a lot as I went along, and I realized how much the performing aspect of it was and sort of, you know, just you know, the idea of standing off the rough edges, you know, and knowing, oh, I see, you know where all the economy in it was to do that too much? You know, that's quite interesting. All right, So you broke your guitar over here, what would you like to uh usually play? I got rhythm because it's my most show off he things. Okay,

let's do that. I got a few other names to run by you later. We'll we'll, we'll bounce until they kick us out of the studio. Charlie, is that other Mike ready to rock and roll? Or jazz? Is I can put it in place? He's gonna pick always in the right pocket? Is that what you always gave? Always there? There's a little pick area for them. When did your

mother graduate music and Art? I want to say, Uh, there goes Charlie Pellick by the way, um voice of the submach I want to say, or so something like that. We just did the gala for them the other night. My daughter goes to La Guardy. Oh really, so that's she went for music and art? Um J Hunter College. Wow? How's that sounded? There? You ready? H Here we go? And this is a John Pizorelli model made by Bill Mole from Springfield, Missouri. And this was this is like

my favorite one he's made. There's a new one that I'm playing now. This has some miles on it. This has definitely got miles on. I have a case made by a gentleman named Jeff Hoffey out of out of just out of Chicago, and uh, I just always take a picture of it. I said, here's the guitar going on, you know, and it always survives. You know, it's it's it's so uh that's the one thing that's changed the most as they finally can make a case that will

protect these guitars. But this one I've just thrown around so much. It's not the case. It's the guitar player. So here as I got rhythm. I got rhythm, I got music. I got my God. Look at us far anything more? I got daisies in green pastures. I got my God. Look at us for anything more? Oh man trouble. I don't mind him. You won't find him at my dog. I got started lighting, I got sweet dreams. I got my God. Look at us far anything more? Who get

us far anything more? Admitted him? At him? Oh man trouble, I don't mind him. You won't find him at my door. I got star like, I got sweet dreams. I got my God. Look at us for anything more? But that they did him? Don't get us for anything more? Fantastic, We get it, We get it, Charlie said, Let's do it again one more time, just kidding. That's fantastic. And about halfway through it, I'm like, why aren't I recording this on my phone? I'm so stupid? John? So now

you got your phone? I do here we go? You can do it again and play something else. Let me grab my phone? Where with the row? How are we doing? Time wise? Charlie, We're good. Fantastic all right, it's only to do one quick video all right, what are we gonna do now? Here we go? You ready? The way you wear your hat, the way you sepulity, the memory of all that. No, they can't take that away from me. The way your smile just beams, the way you sing off keep, the way you haunt my dreams. No, they

can't take that away from me. We may never never meet again. I'm a bumpet road to love. Still, I'll always always keep the memory of the way you hold your knife, the way were dance still three, the way you change my life. No, they can't take that away from me. No, they can't take that away from me. Do Dad, fantastic? I have to put this down to applaude? Do we get all that? All? Right? Fantastic? John? I

can't begin to tell you how much fan was. I'm so glad, Uh, I'm so glad we had this time together. Everything I say is a lyric I have. I have a hundred other questions I didn't get to any time I wanted to discuss. God. Joe Williams, I don't know you know you, I've never heard you mentioned. Mose Allison, who find fascinating um. John Coltrane does an album with Johnny Hartman that I just adore. Yeah. The other one is the Ballad's record of just Johnny Hartman, just just's

He's amazing and I have a song. I was curious as to if you've ever heard this version. It's an odd bowl version that's probably outside of your sphere, but you may like it for the show, and if I tell you the derivation of it, you'll understand why it's so ridiculous. There was a girl, she was a girl on a sitcom. She was fourteen. Her name is Renee Olstaed, and she does a version of Summertime. That is when you think that it's a fourteen year old kid, you

would say, what the heck is this? It's so amazing that. Um. I was going to suggest you check it out, but that's a throway. I know you play Madeline Pero and Diana Krall and I love Julie London. You're all over that. I haven't heard Melody Guardaux, but she's an interesting Well we used to play her, and we played her. We actually got hurt to um uh schwartz. Oh really that was one that like Jessica found we I don't know if we had the record got to us or we looked.

You know, we always just go on and see new releases and we jump on them right away, and she was somebody we got at right at the very beginning. She's an amazing story, car crash and everything. Anyway, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time. I'm gonna have Charlie come in and take a photo of us, and I'm gonna ask you to sign the book. Um, if people want to find you, they can go to John Pizzarelli dot com

and all your discs, books, everything else. Tour date information is all is all there and they're all over the country. Now you can like me on Facebook. I'll be out on the West coast the first a second two weeks, second two weeks of August, and also during a week at Birdland July. And the new album, which will come back and talk about at length, is called it'll be called Midnight McCartney. It's all Paul McCartney songs done after the Beatles, silly little songs, no more lonely nights and

all that stuff, and it's Paul McCartney approved. Alright, great, you've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. You should to check us out next week.