Hannah Elliott on Automotive Industry Trends

speak a little more than I did last time. UM. I tried to keep my excitement in check, especially on the broadcast portion, but we did go back and forth on some stuff. Uh. If you were all interested in the automobile industry E vs. Motorcycles, collectible cars, Ferrari's Formula one, well strap yourself in and get eddie. This is two hours of automobile wankery with no further ado. My conversation with Bloomberg's Hannah Elliott. Hannah Elliott, welcome back, Thank you,

it's great to be here. I'm oh. I always enjoyed talking to you because I'm kind of a car guy. And before we get into automobiles, let's just start a little bit with your background of your career. Um, you were a staff writer at Forbes Luxury. What led you to being a writer and what led you to luxury. It's a really funny story. I always start out by saying, of course, at Bloomberg, I get to write about cars. I get to write about the fun thing. Most people

here write about how to make money. I get to write about how to spend money. This was not by design, this was not my plan. I did love words and books, and I did study journalism in college. I went to Baylor University. Um thinking of Brittany Grinder right now, she also went to Baylor, so shout out Brittany. Um. But I went to Baylor, I got a journalism degree and moved to New York. I had interned writing about politics and religion. Actually, but saw on Craigslist and add to

assist the automotive editor at Forbes. And I knew nothing about cars. I come from a sports family. I'm not a car I still say, I'm not actually a car person. This is my job. It's a beat. Did you play sports and I ran track? I was going to say basketball but now you're short for basketball. But I got some cousins who are very good at volley wall. They played at s m U. But um, I was a runner. My dad ran for Nike in the eighties marathon distance.

So I come from a big running family. My brother played basketball actually in Europe professionally, so big sports family. No car anything, I mean my no. I mean I did know how to drive a stick shift because my dad taught me in his old Ford when I was sixteen, mostly because I bugged him just to do it. But I had an uncle with like an accurate legend, which was probably the nicest car I was ever exposed to. Um, and just shared an old Buix Skylark with my sister

in high school that I was very embarrassed by. So not understand. Yeah, and although my sister actually I think she kind of liked it, but not interested in cars at all. But back to this craigslist at I figured, well, Forbes is a good brand, it's recognizable. I know I want to do journalism. There's my foot in the door. I'll figure it out once I get in and fast forward. You know, this was on like two thousand seven, two thousand and eight, A lot of people got laid off

in the industry. My editor, who I've been working with for a year and a half or so got laid off. He was expensive. I wasn't. I was being paid next to nothing. So it was like, well, who can write about cars? And you know, pick this up because we just fired the guy who was covering and which doesn't make sense, and so oh yeah, Elliott, you go. And Matthew de Paula. I will always be so grateful to him.

He was the editor at Forbes at the time who hired me and really for a year and a half took me around every where and just taught me the beat. That's how I approached it. This is a beat. I'm gonna approach this just like anything else. There are no wrong questions. It's just like, this is uh the way that I would cover anything. And I always kind of thought, well, I'll eventually go into other things. And I did certainly do luxury and watch coverage at Forbes and celebrity coverage.

You know. I got to talk to everyone from Jennifer Lopez to a cover story on Elon Musk back in the day before anyone really knew about him, which just crazy to think about now. You know, Forbes was great, and it just kind of was like cars were the thing that I did because no one else at Forbes was doing them. And then I just never stopped. And you know what was the first car reviewed Forbes? That's

a great question. The first car I remember being allowed to drive as a Forbes staffer was probably an event to Door, a Lamborghini evented Door. Terrified. Yeah, yeah, that was ter Yes. I remember Matthew was in the passenger seat, so I wasn't completely solo. Matthew Matthew to Paul, who was the editor who hired me. There um he was still around, And I mean I was terrified, but also I was young and dumb enough not to know any better,

and I think that actually really served me. I didn't know what I was supposed to do or not do. I just approached it like a journalist, which I was, you know, and I still am really proud to be a journalist. I think it's the best job. And cars are way more fascinating now even than then. I mean that was, you know, twelve fifteen years ago, and even now,

like the car industry is the most exciting industry. It's so I was telling a friend that I was going to speak with you again and talk about cars, and their response was, you know, I love pizza, but if I had to make pizza for a living, I would hate pizza. Is that the same? Is there still a thrill here or are you like you know, no longer can smell the roses. That's a really good question. I think it actually works to my benefit that I never

was a car person anyway. I'm not a car person, and I always say, here's the difference, because I think you've become a car person, whether or not you wanted to. Well, I can certainly speak the language if I need to, and I feel very comfortable in those circles. But here's the difference. I don't go to car things that I'm not basically paid to be there. And everyone else at the car event, I mean, whether it's a Formula erace or you know, a concour I'm paid to be there.

Yes it's enjoyable, Yes it's glamorous and fun, and I really do enjoy it. But I don't go to car things on my own personal time. I play with my dog, you know, or go buy a flower something else, because yeah, I just think, like your your pizza friend, that's it would be too much, and it would. I mean, if you're doing it for a living at a certain point, it's so yeah, just to change, even if you love

what you're doing. Hey, I love the markets and financing, but on the weekend, I want to go out on the boat or sit on the beach or just something. And I really say, look, if your car is the most interesting thing about you, you're probably a little bit boring. I like to be around people who have a lot of dimensions, and cool car is one of them, and that's awesome. But to me, that should not be the

most interesting thing about you. I love car people, I love talking about cars, but like, come on, you've got to have some depth to so um yeah, that might be a little not trying to put anyone down, but to me, it's like, if I'm going to spend social time with you, you've got to be able to talk about more than And that's why you send your angry emails to Elliott at Bloomberg. So what sort of automotive trends are catching your eye these days? What do you like?

What don't you like? Well, I think a v like electric mobility for lack of a better work is despite the fact that we're still, you know, hovering around five penetration of e vs, so new sales, that's all it is, of all cars on the road. Oh well the cars last, it's so but yeah, so it's it's like one thing to talk about the hype of evs. Certainly at every car show and every car launch and every debut, it's

all electric vehicles. But in real terms, in the real world, I think we can expect to see SUVs that continue to get more and more expensive. But what about the Aston Martin suv and the and the roles and um, you know, Porsche has got a couple of SUVs that are going to get close to two thousand if you get every but I don't think you know. I remember when the first SUVs were really starting to get over a hundred thousand dollars. It was like, Wow, this is

really crazy. This is a utility vehicle, but it's being priced like electric car. But now it's just on top of that, I mean, Lamborghini Ferrari's coming out with theirs. It's just going to continue and there seems to be no limit. And let's not forget us vs have the biggest margins. They're basically doubling the production volumes for a lot of these smaller automakers like Lamborghine Ferrari, so they're gonna double production volume and then the profits are just

look massive. Look back when Porsche was independent, the Cayenne save the company completely. And also it's so interesting because back you know, the people who are very into these sports brands like Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborgini, there's so much philosophical angst about well, but we're really a sports car company. We're really a you know, uh, supercar company. What is our consumer we're going to think when we go into

an suv? No one cares? No one cares. I mean there was all this like polite, Oh what will we do? No one will accept our DNA as a true sports car company anymore. Nobody cares. Half the people I know who won nine elevens have, of course either a McCann or a cay in garage. They stay with the brand.

And the only problem with those SUVs, So I had a mccan s. You just go through tires and breaks like they're because there it's a big, heavy truck, but you can throw it around like it's a sports car, and eventually it's like, oh, I got the rubbers and I need to replace Uh, I need to replace the brake pads. But it drives like a sports car. And those have done nothing to diminish the lure of a nine eleven. It's other than funding, letting them, letting them

spend money. Yeah, I mean, it's not like, oh if we make an suv now people won't take our sports car. Seriously, it just elevates everything. Person I think that will really continue. I mean, if you look even at even if you look at thee to the new nine eleven compared to you know, call it a turbo from the seventies, double the size. So in fact somebody did, um, what is it the por Porsche? Um, not the boxer, the hardtop, the Cayman, A new Cayman today is the size of

the seventies nine eleven. It's just shocking, all right. So that's what trends you like? What bugs you? What? What's the trend that you find? I wish this would stop. This is terrible. Well, honestly, the flip side of the coin is, uh, the whole idea that when you are creating electric vehicles they tend to be appliances. I find that so boring and unfortunate. Um I don't know what that means for the future, but I my number one thing is car should be fun, even if you if

it's a commuter car, it should still be fun. And I do think there is a place for autonomous driving, you know, for for commuting, sure, especially if you can set your cruise control so that it starts and stops at like in l A you're on the four h five. Who wants to be stressed about That's not driving, that's just commuting, completely different thing. So I do think there

is a place for it. But it is kind of sad to see how consumers who have been marketed to to believe that they are going to be virtuous by purchasing an EV and they're going to symbol their you know, virtuous status by driving an electric vehicle, that there's somehow doing good for the environment. This is a little bit of a separate point, but to me, the best thing you could do for an environment is to not buy a new car, use a car that already exists, use

an old car. And this goes hand in hand with the appliance thing, you know, I just drove the Cadillac Lyric, which you didn't exactly necessarily love it because for many reasons, but to this particular point, it's just kind of like an appliance. It looks interesting that looks are there, but driving it could have been from any brand, and I'm

not sure Cadillac used to really mean something. I'm not sure that's going to have the same pull as the Cadillacts of yesterday, especially without the fins um just ps. What really bugs me that I have to share, and I've been in a bunch of evs. There's just no reason to bury the the heating and air conditioning controls. And I know, I know you can't expect a Volkswagen to be a Bugatti, you know they're the same ownership.

But I just was watching review of the sharone and they brilliantly integrated just three buttons across all of your um heating, cooling, fan heating, and cooled seats, just three little buttons. You can push it in, you can pull it out, or you could just turn them up. And you know, we have to pull that stuff. I know a lot of companies like to keep them at the bottom of the screen. Yes, it's still a pain in the neck. Yeah, And I have mixed feelings about this.

For instance, the new Mercedes cars like the S Class and the e Q have this very big, giant screen that's curved and it goes across the entire dashboard and it's actually very beautiful and it is pretty well designed. So I'm not I actually did find it was intuitive, and I purposely don't ask for help when I first get into a car. I would be able to see if I can figure it out. I don't want them to show me because that, to me is a little bit more of a controlled environment to see if it's intuitive.

So I don't have a problem with that necessarily, But in general, I do like some tangible knobs and buttons. Button yes, and if you are having to scroll through multiple layers of software to turn on a seat heater, that's distracting and annoying. But meanwhile, the flip side of that is all of the new Ferrari steering wheels. It's like, you don't need anything else. Everything's at your thumbs. Did

you get in the Roma? I did. I don't love I find the exterior of that car just silky, sassy, gorgeous, yes, and the interior is a little disappointed from the accouterment or the technology, just a little bit of both. I mean it's you know, not everything is a four eight eight or you know, I've I've kind of been looking at the F twelve lately because the eight twelves have

gone postal and pre pandemic. The F twelve was just starting to come down in price, and for any three of my cars, like, well, you know, I could save a little maintenance and insurance if I swapped three these three for that one. And it was it was, it was definitely coming I love paying half of the M s r P for a three year old car that still has most of its useful life ahead of it. And um then it just you know, they're up from where I was like, oh, you're ten thousand dollars away

from where I could think about this. So um so. So that's a beautiful interior with hard buttons and a screen and a separate little screen if by the upper for the passenger. Didn't love the roma, so so the eight twelve and the F twelve are both just I like that environment. The room was just kind of it was a little too minimalist interesting. I kind of really like the dials, the buttons, the tack like I want to feel when I get into a Ferrari, I want

to feel like I'm talking a fighter plane. What else looks really new and interesting to you? What cars resuvs are you excited about, even if they're not out till four right? Not the lyric hold that off? What else this is gonna surprise you? But I really did like the Hummer. Ev Everybody I know who's driven it says its spectacles. This is a this is a spectacle. Yes, nine nine thou plus pounds, and you're gonna be on the same level as a school bus basically it height wise. Again,

if you love the Hummer, you're gonna love it. If you hate the Hummer, you're gonna hate it. But what I love about it is it's not trying to be anything. It isn't. This is a very obnoxious vehicle, you know, but it doesn't. It's not trying to hide it. It has a point of you, but it's in these But it's electric and it's really fast. Um, I drove that

insane nine thousand pounds. Yes, with launch mode, which also is ridiculous There's there's no reason a Hummer EV needs to have a launch mode, and I'm telling you it pushes you back there. See it's crazy. Well you've seen the YouTube videos of the people in the Tesla plaid sure, just like having their minds blown. Yeah, well imagine that and like something the size of a school best. Basically, it's crazy, but I loved it. They did a good job with it. I think, you know, good luck trying

to get one. And I saw they were two on Bring a Trailer already. Did you see the one that sold on bring a Trailer for I think it was around two hundred thousand dollars. Yeah, yeah, there's been several that have been going for two plus. So, I mean, it's crazy, but I really did like it. Surprisingly, I thought they did a great job of incorporating the look of the old Hummer. I mean, the minute you look at it, you know it's clearly Amma. But it does

look updated too. I thought they did a better job than maybe, I don't know, a Defender. You know how they brought the new Defender in. Yeah, but the new so the new Defender has been slagged by a lot of people, the folks I know who own it all, love it. I mean, the only beef anyone has is it's a range Rover, so reliability is yeah, I was that it might be in the in the shop every now and and And by the way, it's really interesting given the lack of availability of of new cars and

use cars. Go on any used car site and look for like range Rover Sport HSSE, which is an expensive car. There are tons of them available, and it's mostly because the reliability downgrades their appeal as a used car. But yes, I was interested in You mentioned the Defender. So I know someone in the UK who had the Defender as a hybrid and says he get because I think it

was forty five miles local. So all your local driving is ev But if you want to go from London to take the Channel to Paris, you can tank up and you could make that trip. Yeah. I love that, and I and I think you know I am. I am neither for nor against EVS. I do feel genuinely

neutral about it. I think, Okay, they're probably gonna happen great um, But it is true that like now that I'm living in Los Angeles, I can't drive to Vegas in an e V without stopping for a considerable amount of time, I mean more than that to try to get a recharge. Yeah, I mean realistically, you can't drive up to San Francisco and an EV. The hybrid solves that problem, that's right. Yeah, and you still have decent efficiencies. So and the same thing with the Ranger over that

HSSE Sport. The new version which looks lovely, is also available in a hybrid in the UK. I don't think it's here, but what's the Giant Range Rovers the land Rover that is here with a hybrid, so you do get arguably the best of both worlds. You're not a fan of the Defenders. I think they could have done a little better. Like the rear box. You know how in the rear the rear quarters there's a box there. It's a step now, um that blocks a lot of vision when you're driving it. I have an X four,

so I know all about that blind spot back. I don't think it's bad. I just think they could have done a little bit better. I don't know. To me, it just like I think Broncho. You know how they brought the Bronco set looks amazing, what a great job. Just had the raptor. Oh my god, have you driven the F one Lightning? You know? I had it for a week. Okay, amazing. Just first of all, if you're not a pickup guy or a girl, right, it's immense and it's you know, almost to the end exactly what

the internal combustion version is. So it's immense. But by the way, the Bronco. I had the Bronco for a week also, and so I have an old jeep rubicon. And the interesting thing about the shape of the Jeep is it's a great glass greenhouse. You can see everything, and the way the fenders are set off of the hood, you could see your corners. You really the Bronco is

a giant rectangle and you can't see anything. I mean, your greenhouse is clean and you can see out the back and they have great cameras, but you're completely blind what's in front of the truck for like ten ft. It's other than that, it was a blast. We took it on the beach. We want to what into from Jeep to Bronco. No, because the Jeep I haveicon and it just goes anywhere. And I'm not like a crazy

jeep guy. But my house is set up on a hill and four wheel drive cars in the rain have a hard time getting up there, so the snow is impossible. And the jeep just it just laughs at everything. It's like, yeah for the snow, for degree angle, no no issues. Um. If I was looking to replace that, I would consider the Bronco Um. Two of my neighbors have one. They both love it. One has the convertible and the other one has a four door, and you know every I had it for a week. I thought it was a blast.

It seems unstoppable. The the F one fifty was just a holy Let me ask you about that. You said it was amazing, amazing for a Ford or amazing for any V. So I've never had any SUV, and I've driven e vs, but not I mean pickup. I've never had a pick up Um, and I've driven evs, but I haven't really had them for a week or so. So the first thing I learned is, and I wrote a long review on it, I plugged it in and that lights up and the next morning I come out

and there's no change. Oh it lights up orange. I have to really put this in, so now it's lightning up blue. And then on a one twenty without a special charger, you're adding like two miles, not an out. Yeah, it's a trickle. And then what was interesting We went to the beach and they were all these fast chargers. Yeah, well there are semi fast charges. And so we're on

the at the beach for two hours. And I it cost me six dollars and nine cents to add forty eight miles, so kind of like three dollars a gallon. It seems pretty cheap. Um, it's still like like the Hummer. It's stupid fast food size and weight. It's just stupid. And it's a full pickup bed. So I dragged out to the beach house. I dragged um. You ever see the roman arch for hammocks. I had one taking apart it's like sixt okay, I threw that in the back. I threw a six foot table I had taken apart.

I threw a big um four burner webber. I just loaded up with stuff and I'm like, I got a ton more room back here. So I anybody who's using stuff, Um, I appreciate having a pickup, but to me, it's like the SUVs. So I have an X four the ex similar to the X six or g L E that rounded back, and friends tell me, oh, look how much space you're giving up. I'm like, twice a year I fill the back of the truck all the way up. The other three days I have to look at an

ugly wrecktime. I'd rather have something that's a little sexier. And if I really need to, I'll either make two trips or take two cars or rent a truck if that's what I really need. But but some people are just can't wrap their head around does the look of a car matter to you relative to its utility? And if it's not your only car, Hey, listen, if I had one car, then okay, maybe I got too many cars. So to me, it's not issue. Um, we were discussing

building a garage. So it's the crossing over into territory. A friend said to me, Um, one two is either too few or two many. It's like, that's a very good point. And and so I'm at the point where six cars are either too few. Actually five, I totalled my wife's panamara, everybody's fine. It was this was this was December, um, the January five or something like that.

Five miles an hour slowed down to make a left, and the person behind me thought I was pulling over crossed a double yellow and you look in your review mirror in a truck, there's no one behind me. So I make the left and shatiboned us and Panamara Forest got It was six months old. And the funny thing was I got twenty four grand more than I paid for the car because the market prices had gone up so insane. So other than chipping my tooth and being sore for a week, it happened in right in front

of my dentist building. So when I called and said, hey, I chipped a tooth and car accident, I can I come in tomorrow, She's like that wasn't you in front our building? Wasn't I'm like, yeah, they heard, they heard boom. And the crazy thing is the woman who was driving the Lexus truck that hit us. She went to the hospital. She was fine. Turned out she's fine, She's just nervous and whatever. But it was scared and shaken up. But my wife and I were like, black and blue car

accidents are no fun. But you know, the Panamara did what was supposed to all the air base came down. The only weird thing is as it's happening. I'm like trying to recover the skid and I can't. Your brain can't figure out what's going on because nothing's operating. You can't see, like you're blinded. The steering wheel doesn't respond. So when we stopped moving, I went to open the driver door and I couldn't open the door, and I'm like, something's wrong with the door. And I turned to my wife,

I'm like, are you okay? There's something wrong with our door? And people came running over to the car. They opened hard door and took her out, and so I had to climb over the seat to get out, and I was genuinely shocked to see a car. Um. Yeah, it's just And I'm like a religious signaler and so normally I would absolutely swear on a stack of Bibles that I signaled. But the fact that the person went to pass us makes me wonder, Hey, was this the one time I made a left without saying only how much

of it is my fault? I don't think it was. It's not your fault. Normally, when you're making a left, the assumption is it's your fault, right, I mean, but they crossed the double yellow line, so I don't look. New York is a no fault state, so it doesn't matter. Um But anyway, how do we get on this digression? We were talking about trucks and space to keep your cars. You got six cars, but now inside three inside jeep and the you are potentially looking at Oh I am

we are at six. I got the f J. Okay, so I have a seventy eight f J, which I started rebuilding in sky blue with a white roof and a black interior. You sent me a picture of that. I started rebuilding one in Columbia pre pandemic. Then we went into lockdown and they said, listen, we can't hold onto the car. We have to We're stuck. Like, go ahead, sell it and we'll find another one when this is over.

So long story short, rebuild a new one, imported to the US and January, it sits in customs for two months because they're so backed up in Port of Miami. Finally get up here in like February March, waiting for the last of the documentation to come in, which just came in like a week ago. UM. I had to get a certified translation of the purchase agreement because you can't send them something showing a hundred million pasos in in Spanish. They didn't want to hear that a v

And so the car gets registered this week. So that's um so seven is too many. So the trucks are outside, the cars are inside. But at a certain point it's you know, you gotta make a decision. Am I going to build a garage for all these things? And it's work keeping six cars? Definitely, Yes, this is a part time job, just maintained, making sure the registrations are current, and making sure the batteries are and the insurance. And I put a trickle charger on the vets. Okay, wait,

what corvette do you have? Sixty seven, Coop? I didn't know that. Ye all these show up on the way. I've been looking for a corps. I want to see three white Sony C three is the Corvette of my youth, like when I was in high school, was still ten years before that, but you know, they were used cars.

Guys would buy a you know, a ten year old vet, and like I came very close to getting a sixty nine and yellow over black, and the prices hadn't gone up, and I started seeing the C twos and I'm like, these are just the most amazingly They're just so gorgeous there. I you know, I just saw one. I follow this thing called hobby car Corvettes, and I just saw they've got a white one in my birth year for sale

in Pennsylvania, and I really red. Okay, C three series, I don't get the automatic California traffic though, I don't want to sit in So here's here's the one thing you have to know about the old vets, Okay, their tractors. Well, we know that with every old Lamborghini, the clutch is heavy, the steering heavy. This is where you want an automatic. I have drum brakes on this, which, by the way,

is supposed to be the knuckle of the sea. I try and rotate all the cars out on the road once a week, although you know, on a daylight today when it's raining cats and dogs, it's not it's not coming out of the garage. Um, But it is to your point, it is a bit of a chore to maintain it. Six too many? Do you need twenty and a guy or like four? You know we have we each have a daily driver. So when I was younger, we each had a daily driver and there would be

a convertible on the garage. So we had an old desk l for a long time, and then we had a Z four so there was always a fun car that we could take out on weekends. And you know what a third car? Hey, you start it once a month? Who kimes six cars? It's just it starts to be working. It's like cats, but for car guys keep acquir you know, like the crazy cat lady just keeps taking them in, right,

That's that's what starts to happen. And once you go beyond a couple of cars just for what you need, it's well, what is the difference between having four extra cars and six extra cars? Not a lot? It's volume. It's excessive, right, either way is excessive. But my partner thinks I'm insane. My partners at work look at me

and like, how many cars are you gonna buy? And I'm like, I don't know, Well, what about during the this market, isn't it wouldn't it be a bit smarter to put some cash into a car rather than I mean, I have my own theories about that, and I've been talking to a lot of people about it, But you know what, I hear at these elevated prices because I'm talking to collective old cars sold cars. Okay, how old

is old? You know something something twenty years or older, vintage. Well, the vet is fifty years old and that's probably appreciated quiet it has since I got that. Last summer, in the beginning of the pandemic, I kind of accidentally bought an R eight on bring a trailer. So my I'm sitting outside reading a book and my wife says, John from Salt Lake City on the phone, and you know, I have bids out on fars and bids and bring

a trailer like away from the market constantly. And you know, my credit card company thinks I'm crazy because you know they put the whole and um and I picked Hi, can I help you? Congratulations on the car, and I'm like, what which car? And he said the R eight. I'm like, I won that. Really, that's fantastic. I will wait a second. Are you sure I was way off the market. And as I say that, I'm like, oh, this isn't life to tape. You just stepped in it. And he said,

well tell you the truth. He goes, as you have any idea with the reserves, I'm like, no, how would I know that? He said, because two days ago I spoke to burn a Trailer and they took me into Long Reserve. He goes, you just barely beat out the reserve and I'm like, why did you lower the price? He's like, well, I have a new Ferrari coming. I make a room in the garage. Okay. So I'm like, listen, I've always been a fan of the car. I love the gated shifter, and I think the V ten is

kind of cheating as much fun as it is. The V eight in that is is a monster. Um so he so everything was. He was a little miffed at me because this was April of It took me like six weeks to arrange insurance and shipping because nobody was doing anything. So he I actually got an email from Bring a Trail which is like, hey, what's going on. I'm like, dude, nobody's shipping cars. He was in Utah and I was like, nobody's shipping cars. I can't get

my insurance company on the phone. What am I gonna do? Trust me, I will wire the money in advance. I just need to straighten all this stuff out. You need the cash I'll send the money today, just him. So so it was It was interesting because when the car arrived, I had all my paperwork, I had my insurance, I had my inspection, but d m V was closed. You couldn't register the car. So I would take I would take the auction. I would have a whole file, and I would go out each morning at seven am. And

there's nobody on the road. There's no joggers, there's no no bicyclists, there's no other cars, and there are no police. So my local side roads became at that and that lasted about two months, three months, and then you know, I'm not an idiot. I want people their bicyclists or pedestrians or fun time is over seven am. In the beginning of the pandemic, there was a little sweet spot in there. It was a huge really get out on

the road. I remember we drove once from Santa Monica and Los Angeles to downtown in about twelve minutes, and we were not even speeding that much. It was just open nobody. Usually that drive takes an hour at least. So I had my like stack of papers. I was fully anticipating a calm sation with the local constable saying, are you a booster an chance? Um? Years ago, I

used to do that. I kind of stopped because it's a little it's just a little dirty feeling sometimes and I would rather charm my way out of a ticket. Saw the badges, the courtesies, they don't work the way they use. I never had one, but I always just thought that was kind of a nice thing. I had one from someone I worked with. A long story. I did some work for uh, the family of someone who passed away, and I got a shield as a thank you. And in New York City the shield worked great, but

once it stopped working. In Nassau County, I I remember coming home from somewhere and getting pulled over and the cop was like apologetic, and he's like, listen, we we just can't. Hey man, you gotta so I learned as a kid just painfully honest with cops. Yes, when cops only over, it's like the scene from Liar Liar, That's how I am. And usually they basically, you know, they appreciate not blowing smoke up there behind because they're lied

to all day long. Must be so right, So you know, tell the officer when he says how fast were you going? I said, well, officer, as I drove by, I saw you and I looked down and I looked at thedometer, and he goes and what did it say? It said, pull over because this office is going to have a few words with you. And they laugh, and yeah, you're being honest with them. You don't have to say, you know,

I was twenty five over. You could say I thought you would want to have that down for my future, thought you would like to have it yet and you want to make you drive too far? That's it's really courtesy. So let's talk about some of your favorite columns of recent days. Starting with I mentioned Evi's and Harley's. Let's combine that Harley, Yeah, tell us about that cool bike. No clutch, right, no clutch, you don't have, no gears, no oil to replace, none of that. No rumble, no growl.

What do they do for sound? Does have a sound? You know? It's like a worrying sound. It's if you're a Harley guy who's going to need the loud pipes, you're gonna object. Probably so as a kid writing dirt bikes, the expression always loved was loud pipes says, So what would you guys say, if you're relying on your alloud pipes to keep you safe, yeah, that's your trouble. Yeah, you gotta be heads up and and honestly, you can do everything right and you can still get in trouble

on a motorcycle. So I think, yes, loud pipes are can be nice, but that should not be your safety plans. The problem is when people see you coming, they see a little blurp instead of a big car. Your brain assumes you're further away. So the pipes kind of compensate for that. Uh potentially. And I would say on this the live Wire one, there is a noise associated with Yeah, it's not a loud pipe, but you could hear it. Um. And actually I am a big supporter. I think it

makes sense for Harley to start having electric bikes. I love electric motorcycles. Actually, the act of riding a motorcycle I think is actually made more pure on an electric bike. Quiet. Yeah, it's not disturbed by And I admit I am not a hardcore biker. I'm not someone who has to ride

a bike every day. I enjoy it, but hey, I love the idea that you don't have to have um, you know, ears and nerves that are afraid because you've been on the bike all day and it's very loud, and it's been vibrating, and you've got the smell of the oil and just dirt. You don't have any of that, which I love. I and the Live Wire one I think is a great example. Zero does a great job. Zero is California based UH motorcycle maker and they have been around for years now and there's one in front

of my office that every day. I love them. They I think they look very cool, they're powerful, they're nimble, um, they don't have any of the cultural baggage baggage that Harley might have. Um. And they're well made. They're awesome. You can recharge those in forty five minutes too, basically full, which is a lot better charging proposition than a car. So I'm a big fan. I really liked it. I

did like the Live Wire one. They're coming out with an S two edition which has like a very cool livery on it and looks more like an off road bike that I think would be cool. Um, So I'm looking forward to that too. Actually, that company is no longer owned Holly by Harley Davidson they've taken on other investors, and this is a new company that Harley spun off UM to share technology with and stuff. So top luxury convertibles from European supercars to US classics. There was some

great car in that list. Well I can't remember exactly what I put on that list, but the first one that came to my mind is convertible. I mean, friend of mine has driven in spectacular if you can get the turbos. Get the turbos. Didn't because he wanted a stick shifting, and I think they stop them that I don't understand. I don't because they want the turbo to be the fastest. And yes, intellectually I understand the duel clutches faster than a stick, of course, but you want

to shift your own. So every and every guy talked to that's the one thing they say. It's just really it doesn't make It makes theoretical sense maybe, but not logical sense to your buyer if you want to sell on them, right exactly. I came very close to buying a twenty four nine eleven Turbo point two And how many miles did I have on it? Not very many and just gorgeous white over with a black interior with red everything rich terrible love a white nine. It's just spectacular.

And why didn't you buy it? Because I couldn't rationalize the price because because the same price. Um no, I think we're we peeked and sort of slipped a little bit in price and the price it was offered at while we were looking at it, like literally like watching the ticker. Yeah, it just kept going up and up. It was like watching the guests roll over. But man, another convertible I love, back to your point, the Bentley Continental GtC. So the only problem with that convertible is

the coup is so spectacular. Yeah, but don't pull it against the I mean the coup for sure. I think one year, the year that it first came out, it might have been version Version that was my favorite car of the year. It's so it's just perfect. Those quilted seats, they're just it's so the one. So we all have regrets. I have a question about regrets. I came this close

on bring a trailer. I ended up getting the R eight instead to getting a white on white um GtC coop not convertible, but it was the eights someone they're not which is fine for me, and um, and I just didn't pull the trigger or you know before in your another column of yours is how to buy cars online auctions, and I one of the rules you put down is one of my rules, you figure out in advance with the prices, and you don't go over that price. And the car sold for two grand over as far

as I want to go. And that's one one of them that got away the white And why at the time you could not have known that you were so close, I mean right, that's why you thought it was going to keep my wife's panamera. I So every now and then you've got a bunch of people that have been kind of, you know, just falling around with the auctions. You could tell when someone is in a areus byre and and so you want to just have a knockout punch.

That's sort of don't do the nickel and dime thing, right and so, and you know, maybe you pay a thousand dollars more, but you just scare everybody away. And I was shocked we got that car because the M S r P. And you could go to Monroney Labels to pull up the original M S r P sticker with all the options and what it literally cost except Ferraris don't work with that, but it works with most

other other brands. And the Lunatic Coopard, not a Panamara Turbo or a GTS of Fors which is like middle of the line paid a hundred and sixties something for the car. They literally must have just gone che che che ch check every option and so you get to pay well less than half of that. That's a great deal for a use car. And and then you know the insurance company will pay you. Now you have to you pay more for market price or a stated value

with your insurer. But hold that aside. Um, give me one other convertible that you really because there's nothing to dislike about the Bentley except you know their maintenance is expensive, and there they become more reliable for sure. No, the seven L T, I mean, if you want to talk high high high in supercars. I liked it in part because it was quote unquote more drivable than some of the contemporaries, just in terms of invisibility. I mean these things to me honestly, and I say this knowing we

are very spoiled people. Yes, they're not relaxing and enjoyable to drive in city conditions, well, especially the special Sport edition there too. Frenetic, yes, and you know you always see the guys who like put them on a trailer to five blocks away from there they wanted. I've literally seen this at clubs in New York City to some unloading and then he pulls it around in front of it. Was that because they don't want to put the mileage on.

I think it's everything you know, cobble stones. They don't want to put the mileage on. It's who wants to do that. I love my M six because it's got the settings for regular and then you can upgrade the steering, the suspension and the engine so you could go drive like a human. Hey let's have some fun. Okay, full blown hole again. And that's a convertible with the stick shift and I can never give that up because the eight is now also dual clutch, no more stick and

I just think that's such a delightful car. Um. But it's not a hypercar. The McLaren is a hyper car. What's the what's the interior like? Is it? It's great? I mean it's very like I would say. It's back to our conversation about screens versus buttons. It's a nice medium. Yeah. You know, there's enough space to put like a cup of coffee. You know, some of these cars don't even have a holder. There's there's no cup holders in half the Ferrari. Yeah, there are some nods to practicality that

I think, let's be realistic. Just because you're driving a supercar doesn't mean you're not going to have a coffee. So with my car club, when we go out, a bunch of us will go out, we will stop for coffee, throw the cups away, and then everybody gets in and drives and go right. Because I hope you still listen to the radio in your supercar um and not just the sound of the engine. So so some of the guys in the group, all of my cars are you know,

modest comparatory, so my Audie or BMW. Although the funny thing is the car that attracts more attention everybody loves is the Vet and and it's like that light nasal blue with a white interior, like white interior. It's as gorgeous as as any car ever made. There aren't many in l A that said. A buddy has a Ferrari F four thirty without the stick. He got the F one in a in a spider and there is no radio in that. I mean there is one. I don't know if it's ever been on the top down the

v H right over your shoulder. It's astonishing, right, And that's his second Ferrari because the F fifty was his first love. And then he decided, Uh, life is short, I'm going to get a convertible. Also, I think a lot of people are feeling that, you know, you only live once in post pandem and you don't know when your number comes up. Sometimes you roll and if you can afford it. I think we're all feeling that, right.

So there's a difference between me running around and spending fifty grands on a stupid little car and other people dropping multi six figures. And you know the thing I love about the BMW is my all changes forty bucks and you bring the Ferrari in and it's two thousand dollars by the time you're done with Oh, I had to replace some belts and a filter. I gave you

a discount. It's that's a different experience in lifestyle. And let's just say, if you're gonna be very concerned about that type of maintenance on your car or minor you know, fixing minor things like things or chips or whatever. You probably can't afford the car, because you've got to be able to afford the car and what it's going to cost comfortably, be able to sleep at night so that you're not just being a jerk about it about who sits in it or who parks. You gotta d you

gotta enjoy it. You can't worry about the mileage right in fact, crest that amount of resources to spind on it. I don't. I don't think you can afford it. Really, His ferraris have what are what have kept me away? Because every like the other day they were both in the shop and he's like, you want to go for a ride? I said, and he's like, I got no cars? What do you mean? Where's the eleven? So the struggle

is real. These are these are very back and forth from the Burbs into New York City every day in the nine eleven convert doable with a stick. So so yeah, right, it's yeah, the struggle is really absolutely so. A couple of other pieces I got to ask about Mercedes trimming entry level cars to focus on high end. Yeah. I have a vivid recollection of when Mercedes was, why are you going down market? You're going for volume, you're high end. No, we have to do this in order to expand our

reach and blah blah blah. Yes, what happened they realized they don't have to anymore. I think they got tired of competing with BMW for the biggest luxury automaker, and they started making these super high end um you know series uh, with the A, MG, G T, with their G wagons that just as we spoke about our over two dollar versions, um, they are doing more with the my Bok brand, which which was it's it's it's very touch and go. Some years they make cars, some years

they don't. And I've asked them about it and they just said, well, you know, some years sometimes right. But the years that they do make the my Bok, it's so profitable for him. And I just think there they were already slicing the pie so thinly. I couldn't, you know, my job was to think about this. I couldn't even look at a car and tell you what C series it was, C Class it was, or you know, the A class or is an ear, you know, it's it was becoming a very thinly sliced pie. And I think

the same was happening to margins. But then, you know, you start to realize this trend of there seems to be no lack of people wanting to spend money on cars, a lot of money. And when you start to personalize it and offer all of these special editions and way to make it your own, especially in the higher models, the profits are so lucrative there you don't have to make the lower one. Right. Look at BMW, well there's no longer one, but there's a two with three or

four or five. They stopped the six, seven and eight, and then on the trucks is an X one x two x three x four X free. Now in the eyes the electric version, you know, the I X, the I three, the I eight of course, which let's put a pin on that we need a new car, a halo car from BMW that I ate was almost a fabulous car. They put that dumb three cylinder engine in there. If they would have put the M three twin turbo six, that would have been a monster. That would have been

a like that car for the agent. I love that car and everyone. They beat everyone when that came out, that hybrid that wasn't Yeah, and now it's like, well, what have you really followed that with In terms of something that's exciting. They've got evs, but nothing that's really exciting. That I ate with a real engine would have been the first hybrid supercar out there. So so let's talk

about hybrid supercars. You did a column on Rema and what they're doing for Porsche Bugatti, whoever else so interesting Porsche Bugatti brand, this brand, I mean, mate, Remac is a young man. When I spoke with him last year at Pebble Beach, he was around thirty. Don't really, he is a young man together. He's got The amount of money that he's got Porsche giving him to make components and other things that they won't talk about is fascinating.

I think this is really it's already his Remax are gorgeous. Also gorgeous. Um and I'm already working on They tell me they're going to have a production car that I can get into in the States, um next month, no kidding. And when is it going to be for sale? We have no idea, I don't know. Yeah, that's the weird thing is like, why are you telling me about cars? Now? This is why as a reviewer, this is a problem

I had with the Cadillac Lyric. They have us in a car, but then they tell us, well, it's it's not a production version. Right. Well, then it's like that means that any thing I say that's wrong with it, you guys can just say, well, it was a pre production. Meanwhile, they've sent a few out but they won't say how many. And then the next batch is going to be around in so it's it's still a year in the future. Might as well claim sculpture. Yeah, get us excited a

year from now. This is very anti climactic. Yeah, yeah, to say, to say the very least, let's talk about my favorite column of yours. Want to take up track driving, don't make these rookie mistakes. So how often you want a track where you're really letting loose? I would say five times a year. Okay, yeah, I try to get up twice a year, but that's great for me. It's like if Fugatti's got something, McLaren, Lamborghini, and Ferrari, they're

all great about having people on the track. Actually, Masserati just had a track day that new to to whatever it is to twenty C whatever is the m C. Yeah, I think you're right. That's a very handsome car, Maserati MC twenty very good looking car. We had it on the track at Willow Springs, which is like the local track in l A. It's old track, historic, so you're burning through through through tires and breaks like. No, not at all. I mean. The thing with with journalist track

days is that it's a very controlled environment. Which is not to say that people don't go off the track. People go off the track, but bad habits on the track for well, I'll talk about for me, and I have no pretense to being a professional car racer. I am not pay attention. That's the number. This is the number one. I don't believe that I lose focus so quickly. I get bored after about two laps really, which causes

you to be very sleepy on other things. You know, it just causes you to flood breaking and you know, turn into early. All the other things to me come from a lack of attention and focus. All right. So we were just up on line rocket one with a bunch of guys and you know you're in a full no Mexic you have the right and then you put the hood on, the helmet on, and you have to kind of back your way into the seat, and can

you even turn your head? You can't. You can see why if one drivers have to work out because your neur the next day. And and they sent you in so tightly. And I don't get panic attacks. I'm not claustrophobic. I have no fear of heights. That sort of stuff doesn't bother me. They sent me in so tight I felt like I couldn't breathe, And for a moment, I'm like,

this is a horrible mistake. You're going to pass out from lack of oxygen until you leave the pit lane and then you are just so hyper focused that you just completely forget your body. Yeah, I forgot how uncomfortable I was. The rest of the world fell away. It was just me, the wheel, the gas bathing, remember to breathe. You don't even think about it. Just autonomous system takes over. I will say, I don't know how you lose. Actually, this was in a roush Mustang, which is what sevener.

What do you do in in like a full blown midden? Like it's like Ferdinand out in the pasture. I'm just looking at daisies. I will say, I will say, I think, um, everybody will improve their on street driving by having a track day, for sure, because it first of all the proper placement of your arms and your knees and your legs. I think most people get completely wrong the moment they

get into a car first time. It's skip barber. You're doing these these different skill trainings and these different semi courses before you own the track. And the instructor is constantly tenant. Both hands ten and two, both hands on the wheel with an elbow, and so he's like, you drop your hand off the wheel to shift gears, keep your three whatever is really what you want to have with a ninety degree angle angle. But they want your thumbs over lightly slightly light touch. So the skid pad.

So we got to use the new supers on the skid pad. And you know, I'm pretty good at recovering from a skid, but it's a little frenetic. And this instructor said, dude, just relax, just leave flow. Suddenly, it's just light easy, smooth is fast. Smooth is fast correct. And the other thing I think really it does really teach you is to keep your eyes up and look ahead, look where you want to go. If you're looking at the corner, it's already too late. You've got to be

looking at the next one already. And I think that really helps you. When you're on the street driving, just anticipate where other people are, what they're doing, Stay alert, stay focused far ahead, not just down the hood of your car, but be thinking like two or three turns ahead, and everything else will flow from that, especially when you're driving. Sist. Yeah, you can't look thirty ft ahead. You're already to slam on the brake. It's going to stop. You have to

look way past that. It's really interesting. What other rookie mistakes do you want to? Um? The other thing that I do find myself, I'll just speak for myself, because you know why not, UM, don't focus on the other people, focused on your own line on the track. That's the

number one thing, you know. If you if you get so that for me, if I get so wrapped into trying to keep up with so and so who's in front of me, or so and so who I think is coming breathing down my back, I'm going to get all tents and all anxious and whatever, and I'm not going to have the best line going into a turn. Come yeah. But you know, um, sometimes you're in two groups.

One group might overtake another group, you know. Of course, then there's always someone who's going to be sort of behind the pack, and sometimes you end up lapping them. So it can be a little bit like we had a guy tap out, not with our group, with a different group. He was like, I just stressful. Yeah, here's the crazy thing. You're following. The fun thing about the instructors.

You're in these hopped up seven horsepower Ford Mustang Raush editions or the last time we were there was R S four's, Non elevens and M three's and they're driving street cars. They're driving Ultimus cameras and it's all you can do to keep up with them because they are so good. But but here's the thing that I kind of figured out about halfway through the track day was wait a second, I'm in a high performance track tuned vehicle. If the camera can make it through with the speed,

I'm pretty sure this car can. And once you get that in your head, it's like people saying, wow, are you a flying around the track. I was just doing what he was doing. The assumption is if he made it through the earn, I'm gonna make I'm just following his Really, see, the driver makes all the difference. I've

seen some of the pros. They'll take a minivan out just for fun and lead the journalists around in a mini I mean, it's hilarious and there we're still doing all we can just to keep up, because it really does. You know, a good driver in a bad car is probably always going to be better and faster than a bad driver in a good car. So you get to go on tracks five times? Yeah, yeah, their cars? Yeah, the car. How often you do anything where you're not

reviewing a car where you're just reviewing the track? Like I'm trying to remember, did did you do the Was it the Lamborghini driving school or the Mercedes? I did a Ferrari driver which great memory, which I would just plug. You know, every major well worth it, right, completely well worth it. Anyone can google Ferrari Driving School, BMW Driving School, Asid Martin driving School, any of these, they all have driving schools. They are so fun. The instructors are like

your best code, your favorite coach. They're there to help you succeed there. It's fun. You can do it with family members, you know, friends, co workers. I highly recommend it. And that was to your point, less about the car and more to just about improving as a driver, like you really can't the average driver is not going to be running a Ferrari at the limits of its perm No. And it goes back to the point that it makes

when you do get back on the road. It makes that driving so much more pleasant because you're aware of what a car can really do, so that you're not intimidated just to drive on the highway. I mean, because you've seen, even if you aren't driving it yourself, you see the instructors do things with cars that are unbelievable, and you realize we are normal everyday driving. We don't

get near the limits what can do. And I recall being on the highway a couple of years ago and there was an incident that the only reason I managed not to plow into this accident in front of me was because of the training that they had. So you know, there's only so much traction on a tire. You can either put it all on breaking and put it on turning, but you can't do both, and that's how people get into trouble. And I remember saying, I'm I'm just gonna stay with the break as long as I can loosen

up and turn away. But I had to bleed off that speed. And you know, if it was skip Barber, I would have been the third or fourth car in that you kind of realize, Okay, it's weight management a lot of the time when you're especially if you're like, well, it's it's weird. It's whether the car is sitting on the on the back tires or sitting on the front tires. And that transition is also where a lot of people

get control. So so let's talk about one other piece you wrote that I have to ask about, which is this sort of ode to l A. You did tell us a little bit about that, and you're kind of bicoastalk l A. Tell us about l A and what's New York like these days? UM, I would say first of all that I love New York more than anything. I identify as a New Yorker. I've I've lived here for seventeen years. I'm originally from Oregon, but really came Do you still have an apartment here, but I do

have a driver's license. I'm a New York Booster through and through. But I will say California has two things that New York doesn't have. Actually, I like that. I like the seasons. I like the weather in in New York. I prefer it because California just boring. No. I love winter. That's my second favorite season in New York behind fall. Anyway, California has better Mexican food than New York City, and it has better car culture. I have to say that the right the driving roads in in and around Los

Angeles especially are world class. And I have been everywhere. The roads there are phenomenal, especially during COVID when driving was the only thing we could really do. It really was wonderful to drive on the canyon roads outside Malibu, to drive up Angelie's crests up Highway, to to drive out to the desert Joshua Tree. I mean, there's so many options specific Coast Highway of course. Um So that has been really lovely. Um that said, I'm really happy

to be back in New York. At the moment. New York does seem different since I've left and since COVID. I'm sure you've recognized. So the residential parts of New York are just jamming, but you go into the town, it's a little it's it's funny the Bloomberg Building, which is now hybrid for now. Yes, a nice sunny day, this building is probably what a full strength but if you have your choice, it's pouring rain. Why am I going to come in today in complete? Unless I have

a podcast? Um pre war car market? Why is for every reason we've just described, Because we're all sitting at home looking at bring a trailer with a lot of time in our hands. We might have some extra money that we haven't spent on travel or you know, we've pulled out of the stock market because it's a bit scary and we are just putting it into our project cars. Also, I think to your point, there's a sensibility of like, hey, I don't know what's going to happen in the future.

I'm going to enjoy this now, and things were meant to be enjoyed. Cars especially, I mean, it's it's just a shame when you see some of these cars and they're not really driven and enjoyed. That's always so there. I stopped even commenting on cards and bids or or

bring a trailer about this. But every time I see a favorite car come up with like a hundred miles, yeah, it's like there are some Carrara gts that had very low mind as an investment, and you know it's like, come on, it's sort of when when the speculators come into your favorite space, the neighborhood gentrifies, you have to move and all the fun goes out of it. Um and there's like a handful of us who want about and everybody else shouts them down. But but that's always

like why buy the car? So so part of the appeal of something like um, so I didn't get the four, I got three seven the vet because the or the sixty three for that matter, with the accidental split real window, which is worth a hundred grand more than my car, because at that price. Listen, anything you pay less than a hundred thousand dollars for you could drive and you'll get most of your money back if it's a collectible.

But to three four hundred thousand allars, suddenly every mile you start driving has a dollar figure associated with Maybe I don't think. I don't think for all of those cars. I think for some maybe, um, really special cars that maybe have a particular history or a racing history. Um. But you know, I think part of the thing too, is there a lot more events that you can use

your collectible car. Four. I mean rallies, meat ups, um, concourse, completely, there's a lot more of that stuff and everyone just wants to do it, and you're gonna want to show up in something cool. So I think that's driving a lot of it too. And I also think it's considered cool to drive your car. Now. Hey man, that's how I roll. To me. It's it's the thought of saying, well, I just spent all this money and time and effort to keep this car running and well maintained, you know,

to say I'm just gonna leave this. It's not good for the car to just sit. No. No, it's not the only issue I have with that is it's hard to find leaded gas for that last column question, Jennifer Connolly's nine eleven and top. So it's funny because when we saw the movie recently and when he pulls up in front of her house on the motorcycle, I leaned over to my wife, I'm like, nice, nine eleven. I bet that's hers, because why would they leave it there. I had no idea that that was a collector's car.

That guy had loaned it to the two of them to the shoot in California too, and they found him through um, a couple of guys sort of in the leftical world. They now. I spoke with the director of that movie. He claims it was a loane, that the guy just loaned him. It didn't even charge him, you know, really, yeah, just because he's a car guy, he's part of this our group. Mean, while your car is the nine eleven in Maverick top gun, right, what do I have to pay for that price? And he he has some other

cool cars. I did a little research, So he's just a car guy at ten eleven something like that. And and what was it Kelly McGuinness at a speedster in the first she had a three fifty six. Yeah, that actually wasn't a real one if I was a replica. It was a replica made by a Canadian company. But still, like, right, I mean that that's good. They a frame. Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense, perfect, you know. And it actually the whole thing about the f eighteens versus the fifth generation.

You couldn't stick with the three fifty s. Make it fresh. Let's talk a little bit about F one. Obviously, the Netflix show enormously yep enormously popular. I'm I'm halfway through the fourth season. I mean, I know there are spoilers, but you know it's still on it. Daniel Ricardo on McLaren like, he's such an interesting character, I'm kind of ruining for him. And then Carlos says, who moved over to Ferrari, Like, here's a kid who just grew up

worshiping Ferrari. The fact that he's driving for them, you could just see like the glee every time he puts on that red driver's suit. That that just really interesting. The challenging thing is wrapping your hand around the competition between the drivers on the same team, because it is supposed to be a team, right. Yeah, you know, it's been very interesting, especially this year, to see Lewis Hamilton's as he fights his way back to the top and how the whole team, you know, goes around him to

make that happen. I mean, he passed Michael Schumacher in like just about every record. Yeah, and to your point, it's been great to see how George Russell has really taken his role as the supporter so we can get Louis forward. They seem to have a really good working relationship. I think in in past years with other teams it's been a lot more competitive with the drivers on the Mercedes team, but George Russell seems to be such a team player. He's so young and enthusiastic, and he's so

good too that he really pushes Louis forward. And you know, when you're that age, you could say, hey, my time will come. Avenge, the guy who runs the Mercedes Toto, what's his total Wolf, such a fascinating character on the Netflix show, as is the guy who runs the Red Bull team and the guy who runs McLaren. It's really it's a cast of characters, which is really um, I'm really glad Liberty Media has taken an aggressive stance to

promoting Formula One in the US. I mean it's actually taken years and years to get proper broadcasting, proper promotion, proper tracks and tracks. So you have Miami, you have Las Vegas, which takes us we don't know those three for sure. Vegas is going to happen for the first time in this current era next year at some point in the fall. I think they still have yet to release a date. Miami just happened. I saw the final numbers. They're claiming two d and forty thousand tickets, which is insane,

like Super Bowl plus two Super Bowls. And it's so interesting because most of my friends are not in the car world, but they were asked asking me about the Miami race. They for whatever reason, and this is all from Netflix. Yes, And what Let's talk a little bit about Audi and Porsche joining Formula one. What why after all these years, you would have thought Porsche would have been right in there the whole time. Well, Porsche has in the past, had UM supplied parts to Formula One

in the past. It's been in and out, and of course has focused on other racing series, including Formula E. You know if they got a team, the racing team with Tag Hoyer in Formula E right now. But I think what has caused part of this is Formula One has announced that they're going to be changing some of the rules for the engines in the next few years, which will allow UM new and hybrid technology, more hybrid

technology to be involved in the cars. And I think brands like portion Audi are seeing they want to be there, they want to be there. It's growing and it will really truly help them develop their electric technologies for future consumer cars. Since we're talking about Portion AUTI let's talk about the area offerings the take Can, especially the Turbo spectacular car, the g t Etron other than the fact it was a horrible olive drab color, and these are

really lovely cars, yes, but they're very pricey. When do these things sort of become a middle class purchase? And I know what I'm talking about Porsche, Like the McCanns starts at fifty grand and the Cayman starts at around the same price, so they are middle upper middle class cars. But when do the evs come down, Well, I think we might have to look outside the luxury automakers for evs that are are priced in a very affordable way. Hyundai has the evs that people are Korean Kia Ionic

is which brand is that? So those cars are reasonably priced, fully featured, it's not like they're missing a whole lot. But to your answer your point about Porsche, and I don't think we're going to see affordable e vs from those guys. For a long time. Why I can sell them at the high prices, so why would they need to go down at all. I would really consider a Tesla plaid the Tesla S except I have a lot of friends with Tesla's they're they're very ubiquitous. Well that's

number one. It's an old design. But my real beef is the fit and finish of the interior. Still it's still a problem. And even back in the day when you would just gently are a matter of fact we point out these cars are not well made, it was like you had just attacked, you know, personally attacked Elon Musk and you were threatening his identity and all. It's like, no, but I got into I got into a Taken Turbo

the other day. It's just a spectacular And yes, because it's done by a proper German automaker that has been doing this for seventies, was a really well made So I I do think just because the long the longstanding older automakers have not done electric vehicles until now doesn't mean they can't. Just means they haven't had two or

they haven't wanted to. But now that they're starting to make them, we're finally getting actual luxury quality fit and finish manufacturing, you know, body panels fitting together properly, software that actually works. We are not getting this from Lucid, Ribby and Tesla, which are startups. The one thing I could say about Tesla, I think there's technology, and their software is still way ahead of everybody else's, and the

over the air updates way ahead of everybody else. Um, I don't know when we're gonna have like a phone that you just put down. Eventually, I want to drive into the garage and have the charger to be on the floor and right, just just but but that's coming eventually. I think that's the peal of the hybrid. Now we're

still in a transition from ice to ev of course. Yeah, I mean there's a lot of hype around EVIS, But again, if you look at the reality of it, you cannot drive an electric vehicle ranges you know, about three that's kind of the going rate. But that's really under perfect conditions. If it's cold, if you're driving fast, I mean really, in real world terms, you're going to get like over a hundred miles. Maybe that's not really a road trip, that's right, all right, So I only have you for

a couple of more minutes. Let's jump to our speed round, starting with best used car for under fifty dollars. What would you tell me? Can I say a collectible want? I want to C three Corvette? I can find them four easily, can find it for you can find a driver. Yes, And I think I keep reading these haggardy reports and you know Southern Bees reports. Values are going up of the muscle cars in general, and I think they look

so cool. I think they're about to hit their stride alright, best collectible under a grand if you can get a like on a higher mileage, so you're going to pay less. I still think values for those are going up. They have, Yes, they have been going up. But I don't see any reason why those are not going to stop gaining value. Really, wow, I'm going to regret passing on that, honestly, I think so.

And I don't think mileage matters. I really don't. If it if the car has been maintained, if it's had at least in California, and they'll first exactly California car, call it one or two owners, properly maintained with a good ledger of records. Hey, if it's got a lot of miles, but it's been taken care for care above. What car would you own if money was no object? Uh? Mercedes going that's mine? Also, that's a good pick. I did not plan that. That's what came from my heart.

But it's the of if you saw the pull Newman version, the sort of light blue with the plaid seats. Oh did you see the SLR unlot coope that sold for you? Wrote a column on how do you ensure that? I mean that was there when they announced the sale. It's a made up number. I don't really believe it was a private auction orchestrated very closely. But exciting nonetheless, but that line of cars is gorgeous. Insane, just insane. Um,

So forget money at no objects? Just rationally, what's your next? Irresponsible? Don't purchase? Well, I know I keep saying this, but I really do want to see three Corvette. I'm gonna keep hammering now. I will never replace the seventy five rolls roy silver shad. Oh it's so glorious. You can get those for pretty inexpensive. The key is to have a mechanic who can work on and I do have that. Get parts for sure they're everywhere. And do kids pull up next to you and tell about great pupa or

do you do you get that? I've had people send me Greay BP, the that's a little Packet's the little package I sent me back. And the one great thing about that car in l A. You know, it's all just a real big ego contest with cars in l A. Going out in Beverly Hills, you know, roll up in that car, you're keeping your own anybody right exactly center. And that car is not an expensive car. It makes you feel like a million bucks though, when all those

other guys have every other thing. It's great. Last two questions, what's the fastest car you've ever been in? Oh? Well, Bugotti, of course right. And now here's the trick question. Not the fastest car you've ever been in, but what's the fastest you've ever driven? Well, I would say I was on the track in Spain with Ferrari earlier this year and I don't know, we probably were one sixty or so on the backstretch. That's that's you know, auto speed, ye all right, but prober not kilometery. But but I

hope you're you're paying attention and not getting distracted. No, I was in that moment. I was paying attention. I think it. I think that that would tend to focus your attention. Um. All right, so let's jump to our favorite questions that we ask all of our guests, starting with tell us what you're streaming these days? What kept you entertained during the pandemic? Okay, the most recent within the last few weeks, Mayor of Kingstown with Jeremy Renner.

Have you watched this at all? No, it looks it looks like disturbing. It's very violent, but it's very good. I mean, he's incredible. Um. The guy from Brotherhood's in it, the main brother who played the cop. Um. I don't want to spoil anything with that, but I binge that completely love it, Mayor of Kingstown. A little bit violent. Um. And then the other thing that I just started since

being here in New York. That was a recommendation from Ian who colors my hair, is Hacks and I had seen that good, asked it a million times and He's like, no, you really need to give it a look. And I've watched like five episodes, just back to back to back. My problem with binging something like that is there's only three seasons. Short season. You kind of want to make

it fast, don't they know? They really do. I've been trying to watch less really violent stuff, and that's why although I've been we've been watching Outlander and some of the scenes are just, yeah, you know, torture. I will admit to covering my eyes at some point. See, no, I know I have no problem like literally fast forwarding or covering my eyes. Uh. Tell us about your mentors

who helped shape your career. That's a great question. Um. I have to say I've already spoken about Matthew to Paula, who was the editor who hired me at Forbes and who just saw this like very young trained journalist who knew nothing about cars and really helped me, um shape a perspective on it. And then Joann Mueller, who was the Detroit bureau chief at Forbes when I was there. She's now a Axios writing about transportation. She uh is just a beacon of hope and light and optimism. A

true professional journalist. Love her. So yeah, Joann Mueller has great content. She's writing for Axios now interesting. Uh, tell us about some of your favorite books and what you're reading right now. I just finished Bell Hooks New Visions of All about Love UM, which is not a new book. It's new to me. UM. It sounds a little you know, gues she but it's a really beautiful book about how

our culture UM lacks love in the culture. And it just felt reading it, it felt like really just a bomb because we all have had quite a chaotic, uh aggressive five years, and it has seemed that people are really becoming polarized in tribal and you know, and so reading that it really was a beautiful commentary on the importance of love UM in addition to romantic love, brotherly love, love for others, love for self UM, for giving parents for not loving you perfectly. UM. It was really a

great book. And then the other one that I I'm still going through is called The Artist Way, which is by Julia Cameron. It's an old one. My wife is a yes. It's so it's the type of book that you just want to reread every like ten years or so, because it really does sort of free you up from whatever thing you're locked into. It's great for people who

we're creative as children and every child is created. The point of the book is every child is creative somewhere along the way that gets pushed out from a lot of us. And it's just about being free as a creative in any tiny little way. Really interesting. What sort of advice would you give to a college grad who was interested in a career in either journalism or automotives or whatever. Uh, do what you're excited about. Um, I

would say two things. Don't take a job that's very depressing to you, even if you think you should, don't do it. Just don't do it. Um. And the second one is, take a job where you can see where it gets you somewhere else and to a point you want to be, even if, yeah, even if the job isn't perfect for you in that moment, take it if it gets you to a point where you might want to be, which is how it worked out for me

at Forbes. I knew I don't really necessarily want to write about cars, but it gets me in somewhere that I want to be. So have an open mind, a mind open enough to be able to maybe do that and to pivot if you need to. Um. And then also, you know it's so cliche, but like, don't do something that isn't exciting because if you're not excited about it, how can you expect your readers, your clients, your your colleagues to be excited about it if you aren't really interesting.

And our final question, what do you know about the world of writing automobiles luxury travel today that you wish you knew to win years or so ago when you were really a young cub reporter. That's a good question. I think what I wish I knew about the world in general is that you can kind of do whatever

you want. There are no rules. There's there's no set thing that says you can't talk to this person, you can't ask that person that thing, you can't try to find out more about this just because you don't have that background. The options are just do it. Just be be bold, be bolder than you think you're allowed to be.

I think, you know when, at least for me, when I was younger, it's all about trying to do the right thing and please people, and that's a nice impulse, but also you can be a little bit more bold than you think you can. Really good advice. We have been speaking with Hannah Elliott. She is the reporter covering automobiles for Bloomberg. If you enjoy this conversation well, be sure to check out any of the four hundred prior ones we've done. You can find those at iTunes, Spotify,

wherever you get your favorite podcasts. We love your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. Sign up for my daily reading list at Rid Halts dot com. Check out my Twitter feed at rid Halts. I would be remiss if I did not thank the Cracks staff that helps put these conversations together. My audio engineer is Jack Holstead. My project manager is atko val Brunn. Sean Russo is our head of research. Harris Wald is my producer. I'm bearing Rit Halts.

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