Darren Palmer on the EV Revolution (Podcast)

electric explorer. If you would like to get your hands on an electrified Bronco, well you better listen to this because this is absolutely a fascinating conversation, not just about cars, but about technology and software and consumer relations and design and really I don't think there's an area we didn't touch on. I found it utterly, utterly intriguing, and I think you will also, so, with no further ado, this

is Ford's director of Electric Vehicle Development, Darren Palmer. This is Mesters in Business with very Renaults on Bloomberg Radio. My extra special guest this week is Darren Palmer. He is the General manager of Battery electric Vehicles at Board. He is overseeing Ford's thirty billion dollars shift to electrification. He helped launch the Mustang mach e, the Transit and the F one fifty Lightning. He holds an MBA from Henley Management College in the UK, as well as an

electrical Electronics and Technology degree from Birmingham University. Darren Palmer, Welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. So let's start with your background. You you get an engineering degree in the ninety nineties. Was the plan always to go into automobile manufacturing or or or were you focused on a different sector? But it sounds so long ago now when you say the nineties. Um yeah, So

my fan was always to go into engineering. I think a lot of people in engineering know that they're destined for that. I really like metatronics at the time. Um so, the fusion of electronics and electrical with creating movement as well. So I knew I wanted him to go into something of complex engineering. And I think somebody once said to me, uh, you know, planes take too long, trains don't have as much interest. But cars are constantly changing over and they're

a huge purchase in people's lives. So that's what made me look towards cars. And I looked at a number of car companies, but I think I always knew I wanted to go into water, and I've got a few offers that Ford was a t The company had a great reputation and furthermore, makes cars for everybody, and I was interested in making cars for everybody, not just a privileged for you really interesting and you have a reputation as a petrol head, you're a Mustang guy. What led

you to gravitate towards e VS over these years? Well, I've I've I've been very lucky in this career, twenty nine years in the forward, and every time the last

challenge finished, they offered me another challenge. So I ended up working all over the world on every type of cars, vans, commercials, every class, B, C, C, D class cars are increasingly larger, and then luxury and every all around the world India, China, South America, US, Australia, so and at one point I had plants on four continents, five continents, and development center

on four continents. So all of those different parts of experience led me to I was starting to work on hybrids and the company said, we want to do something, friend, we need to have a completely new approach to electric cars. Because we were trying and we were getting nowhere. They decided they to do something called Team Edison, and they asked with my background of international and really open mindedness

was the key there. We formed a team called Team Edison to determine the future of electric cars for Forward. So that that was about four four years ago, and that was four and a half and that was my moving to electric cars. Tell us about Team Edison obviously a little bit of a reference to to a famous

American entrepreneur, what what is Team Edison at Forward? So what was happening was we were trying to develop electric cars, but they were being measured by the same measures as gas cars, so they wouldn't meet the hurdles, the investment hurdles, the profit hurdles, the volume predictions. So we were getting nowhere and we in fact we were going to make a Ford Focus their version two, and we knew that it was becoming increasingly I'm aware that that really isn't

what the market wanted. So we had to change something, and we knew it was a cultural change. So we decided we either buy an electric car company, but then you have to transfer tens of thousands of people in one day, or we try something different. We try we create a startup within Ford Motor Company and then that's

what we decided to do. So a gent called Ted Cannis, really one of our top business leaders, was put in as the head of that group and he set about to create recruiting people internal and external to head up Team Medicine. I was the first one in and when he told me the proposal, um, he convinced me to

come in and that's where the journey started. And we had some external people, but not huge amount because it's all about the first you've got to work out what to do, and then you've got to make it happen in a hundred year old company, and I can tell you making it happen was harder than determining what to do. So we so we formed, and we moved ourselves outside of the main buildings and we formed a different culture,

really building it up from the ground. We had about people handpicked each one and we were inspired by startups in California, so we spent time there early on to determine how they work, which is very different, and we set up a culture extremely similar to that. We also went to China to Norway where electric cars were prevalent to see what others are doing, and then we we set about determining where to go. At the time, it

was an eleven billion dollar investment in electric cars. It's now today announced a few days ago to fifty billion. I have thirty billion down in my notes, but fifties a lot of money. The team Edison. The first project was that the Mustang or was it leader was the medicine after the Mustang Marquis. So the first thing to do was to determine where to play and how to win.

And that meant we had to first understand I mean for the whole portfolio without the time was eleven billion dollars, so three or four cars coming through, and the battery infrastructure and the charging infrastructure and all those things we had to do. So it was actually to work out where to play and how to win, and we quickly

worked out. We went to California and I was talking to customers in California and quizzing them about their cars, and we determined quite quickly that they had transitioned to BEV and they would never come back. They were also delighted with their products and it felt like they'd moved from a flip phone to a smartphone like an I phone or similar and at any price, they would never move back, which was very similar to the phone analogy,

and I asked one of them. I offered them, Hey, you know, we need your car for testing, so I'll give you. I'll give you a free BMW M three and two thirds of your money back. And he said, I'm not interested. How can that be? Said, well, I'm a I'm authorized to offer you of your money back and free BMWM three. He said I'm not interested, and I said how can that be? And he said, well, because I've discovered the future. UM, I can afford it

and I deserve it. And we realized at that point these people they're never going to buy the traditional vehicles that we had. They're buying a technology product. And we brought that realization back and said we need to completely change our plan. And that led us to leading with our icons. So we made a plan of which vehicles to attack in which order, and we made the strategic choice that every vehicle from forward will do things that

gas never did, enabled by the technology. So none of them will be a car just with an electric motor in it. That's not what crustomers want. So that's what we did. In the first thing we did into medicine, which was the eleven billion dollars, and made the first three cars, the Mustard macke which you may have seen one recommended, the only electric car recommended in America, and now the last last week, and then the Transit is now just launching. We're nearly sold out already and it

is likely to be a leader in its field. It's already nearly global in its field now with a gas vehicle. And then their fifty Lightning, which is of course the big one for us, where we've got over two orders. Now we had to switch the system off. So let's talk about those three big cars that you ever saw the launch on, starting with the Mustang mac Markie, which

won a number of awards. I had a loaner of those cars last year and thought it was a really interesting and very well made ev tell us about the challenges you ran into when you were first thinking about putting that car out. Uh, it really was a substantial

break from what Ford had done in the past. Yeah, So we had originally planned a focus their part two, but we quickly realized due to human centric work, we were doing and human centric work puts you out with customers very early and you just talk with them about how they feel about things that you know, you're not asking them exactly what they want, You're just talking about to them about their lives and what they see. We discovered pretty quickly what they were looking for in this

next generation was a technology product first. And you know, there's one company out there which is really doing that, which is Tesla. They've been a leader in that space. And we noticed how customers of those vehicles were. They really liked the experience they got, and we said, we in that vehicle we're going to make, it needs to be a technology first vehicle, but we want to bring what is our spin on there? What is Ford? What does Ford bring to the table? Tesla have their attributes,

but Ford need to have their own. And we said to ourselves, um, what brands do we have that could be worthy of what we're going to make and that could be synergistic. So the one that came to mind pretty quickly was Mustang. And the first time we said that, it sounded um crazy, you know, and some people were

very shocked by that. So we asked ourselves, what if it was a stone, and then we we started with the exterior design actually, and we went downstairs to the design team who were working on a focus both Part two, and I could tell you they weren't the most fired up.

And then we said what if? And again they know they started to come to the table, and we said, what if we mixed it's going to be an suv because that's the segment growth, the greatest segment growth and where customers are going, especially millennial, So we wanted it to be there. We knew that, so it's we're there. Therefore, we're talking about an suv, musting what might it look like?

And in that first day they started sketching and we put together some of the must plank cues with that suv, and then we started to like what we saw, and then we that they the designers got lost in it and then said okay, leave us. We left them, and then the said we're going to make a clay of that vehicle. And so we went away for the weekend and we came back early six five six am on

Monday morning and said, don't look at it. Well, we walked away and they were putting dia Knock onto it, which is the kind of silver foil that simulates a vehicle. And when we all turned around and we saw that first execution, we said, oh my, oh, my word, that that couldn't work. That could work. That was from the first weekend, and we said, my word, that could work. And by the way, the designers had gone from not the most excited, too off the wall, excited, didn't have

time to talk to us, just busy creating. They immediately took the DIA knock off again and started carrying on with the clay and they're off. So we went to the next department and we went interior and and we said, what have we got? They showed us and we said, you know, that doesn't really look that's not a Mustang. That's not worthy of that. And we said, how would you change it? There was a Mustang, and same thing happened.

They started to get excited by the way. Both of them, the exterior designers and the interior were both the people who did Mustang, so we didn't need to explain to them what the Mustang was. It was the same people, and they started to bring a lot of those cues in so they kicked off. There were the same the same excitement. We went to the next department and we

said we need technology and that was a problem. We went and said, what have we got that would be a high tech tech forward solution that is over their updateable and we'll work for years to come and upgraded. And I'm afraid we didn't have anything. But our system at the time was not going to do the job.

So that was the biggest challenge for us. And and we we went downstairs to the development team and we said in team medicine, we work without grade structure, all together on the problems and anybody can speak up without fear of anything, reprise or anything. So we encourage people to speak up. So we pulled together. We went downstairs to the to the main team and we work asked the programmers who were working on very for it to come into a room and we shut the door. We

explained how we work. Anyone can speak up, and I said to them, hey, guys, we need a next gen operating system that's world class on this car is launching in two and a half years. How how might we do that? And they were silent for a while. People take time before they're comfortable, and one of them said, not working the way we work. I said, that's interesting.

How would you do that? Then they said, you'd have to work like a software company and we said, like what, Well, they work in one room with the designers, the human machinery are facing the programmers in one team, together with the equipment they need, the facilities they need, in the funding they need, without frankly, management interference. And I said, what if we do that? And they said, We're never

going to do that here. I said, well, what if we said we'd give you everything you want because you do that. They said, well, if you could do it, then then yes we would. And I said, well if would you start Monday? If we could do that? Said yes, and then I said, and I never forget this. It made me laugh. I said, hey, hold on a minute, hold on, how do I know that you actually know how to do that? And he said, John, John, show him John. And so he looks over to the other gentleman.

He puts down his delaptop and he pulls out an alien where from his side bag, and as he's opening it, Tom says to him, yeah, he's just come back from a gaming convention in South Korea, like, oh okay, And he then shows me some of the things they've worked on, and they they have and it looked like something out of Marvel, and okay, I got it, you guys know. So we then went upstairs and we went to our leadership team and we said, well, you know, we really

we're into big trouble. We need this system in two and a half years and the team, you know, can't do it the way they work. And he said, well, have you got a proposal? We said, yeah, we have to work in a different way and we need me maybe seven million dollars of immediate funding to just trund everything they need. So he said, okay, just do it, do it now. So okay, so went upstairs to the VP of engineering and we said the same thing. He said,

start now, get on with it. So we went back down to the team that evening and said we're ready to go. Please start um And Monday morning they started. And what I've learned from many of the startups, the way to work nimble is that leaders serve the employees who who are who are creating for the customer. My job is to clear the path in front of them. So I went every morning, what do you need today? We need better computers, do you know where to get them? Yes?

Going by? Now? What else do you need? We need some screens that emulate the screens we're building for a good going by. Do you know how to get them? Yes? I can buy them. Best play gone by him now And they were delighted to have that ability. And then the next day asked what do you need, Hey, we need a server computer to serve some of the interfaces. Okay, give it to them. And then the third day they said, what do you need? Said old pizza and coffee kind

of joking. Okay, you get pizza and coffee, and what else you need? The answer is what do you need to get it? And and they've never worked like that in Ford. And then the fourth day, what you need nothing, just leave us alone. Okay, fifth day, what you need? Something else? And so on. We just kept doing that and then we've created no presentations. When they want to demonstrate something, they just showed it to us. And the progress was I've never seen anything like it in my

in my career. Within two weeks they had running prototypes that were touchable interfaces that they had created. One of them created the main interface, you know, while he was working off site at home, and he decided to create an enhage temail fire for the Internet, the main language for websites, because that was convenient to create and he had a complete working interface in two weeks, and because it was hate Temail five, it could reconfigure like a

web page does, which most cars do not do. And then and then within three weeks they were testing it with customers in Chicago and streaming it live while the whole team watched the customers. And at one point a customer got caught up on some of the interface, and the guy said, how can you fix that? And he corrected the code, live redeployed, and because it was live fed from a server, it updated the interface in the hands of the customer who then was not caught on

it and we could carry on with the work. I've never seen anything like it. They did three rounds of that testing live watching customers in Europe, in China, and in US, and in twelve weeks created an all new interface, which you know, he's getting extremely good reports now from consumer reports and and JD Power one of the best curR interfaces in the world. So it was incredible. I've never seen anything like it in my career. And I learned a lot through that process. And last year, despite

the pandemic and despite um the supply issues. I think you guys sold something like twenty seven thousand Mustangs is that right in the US? Yes, a little bit more, and we were nearly fifty globally from the same plant. We're completely sold out and we're trying to meet that demand with what we've actually we're actually we've agreed and we have funded, and we're going to increase production to over two hundred thousands. Wow, that's a huge number. So

the market the Marquee is very much a crossover. Are there any plans to electrify the traditional Mustang pony car? The two door sports car? So you get that asked that one a lot. So the next cars along after we've done the Lightning is the three row car, so the size of an Explorer, that type of car. That's the next one along. We've we've already announced that one, and then we have a lot of calls for other cars. You can imagine, there's huge calls for an electric Broncho,

and there's others which we haven't announced yet. And we've got a fifty billion dollar roadmap of many cars including Lincoln's the the Mustang Sports Coupay, and that needs a very low battery to make that to what we want it to be. And uh, and we have quite high aspirations for what we would want that to be. And so we're only going to do that when the technology will allow. We know customers really want, they want over three miles, you may, that makes them comfortable and happy.

And that's always been a product that has punched above its weight and gives performance of normally much more expensive cars and with the whole imagery of Mustang. So we're not doing it yet, nothing nothing to declare on the timing of that yet. We're going to do it, but we'll only do it when the technology allows us to make it incredible. You know, the Marquee has by all measures been a wild success, if there's any fly in

the ointment, and this kind of surprised me. It was all the pushback on the Marquee over the Mustang name. What you're a Mustang guy, what was your reaction to the sort of you know, old school enthusiasts who were offended by a crossover we're using the name Mustang. Well, I understand, I very much understand it. I'm extremely active on listening on social media was something we learned a lot in the way startups do it all the time.

And from the first weekend we launched, we were watching social media live and somebody, you know, for example, had a problem on the first Saturday, and we asked permission to speak to them and we contacted them, which they loved, and we fixed it. So I'm extremely aware of negative

feedback from current owners. So what I set off about doing a year ago was talking to lots of them, and we actually brought in the presidents of both Mustang clubs and amazing guys, and we brought them actually to the launch in California, and we brought them along and they came to see me and said, Darren, you know, I understand what you're doing, but I can't really endorse it, and you know, I just wanted to let you know that, but I do appreciate what you're doing here. So that

was at the beginning. At the end of the two days, one of them brought two and one of them brought one, and they said wow, yeah and and and they said, so listen, this vehicle supports the other Mustang. We couldn't be selling the V eight Mustang very much longer without the support of these TV so it protects the current Mustang. By the way, we still sell the current Mustang, so it's a companion is growing the brand into in a new space. And I can't tell you the joy of

the of the customers. Literally nine of them recommend it to friends and families and everyone will listen to them. So that's the highest satisfaction car I'm ever aware of that We've had well, I'll tell you card people love, I'll tell you personally. Having sat in you know, everything that's out there, um and having had the Marquee, the sort of middle not the GT the middle of the of the road version for a week, I came away very impressed with the old quality, the fit and finish.

It just felt like a substantial vehicle that was well made and was I don't want to say luxurious, but it kind of reminded me of a Volvo where everything is very well put together, very well thought out. There's a degree of minimalism in it that was very effective, and it very much had its own personality. I came away really impressed with that and wanna try a GT out and see what what the higher horsepower is like, but you know the Mustang. Everybody knows a lot about

the sexy new uh hotness is the one Lightning. The four f one fifty has been the best selling vehicle in America for I don't know, forty years, running some crazy number. You must have very very high hopes and expectations for the Lightning. Tell us a little bit about the development of that vehicle. Yeah, the Mackie is like a practice compared to the Lightning. So we are very aware of Lightning from fifties status as America's number one vehicle for over four decades, and the love for that

product is indescribable. I know that because I see the customers talking. So when we started that project, we knew what was ahead of us, and everyone was warning us, you might better make sure that vehicle is worthy. So what people expected is built for tough, and of course it's been punished as every piece is the same as a gas. It will pass all of the things the gas does. Of course it does, and we put it

down Silver Creek, which is hideous, to be honest. We have robots drive them now because it's it's too brutal for humans in an accelerated test. That's how brutal they are now, and all their from clifts do that, but so does the lightning. We've made a battery case system that's impervious and can go underwater, and it had We know it has to be tough and reliable, and that's as given. But what people didn't expect is that mantra

that we put forward. Every electric car from forward has to do things that gas could never do, because that's what attracts people in We're aware, you know, we believe this could be the vehicle that attracts mainstream America into beds because I can tell you thirty seconds in the driver's seat will convert the most hardened the enthusiasts into a wow because it feels like a magic carpet when you drive off, because it's an isolated subframe, no vibrations

at all, near silence. You're waiting for the noise to come, and then you look at the speedometer and you're at sixty miles and there's no noise. It's quieter than my than a navigator compared to it's amazing. And because there's one gear and the accelerator pedal reacts in a fraction of a second. It's unbelievable even the most hardened electric enthusiast.

And I've had some really amazing journalists in there. They're ready to be amazed, and they come away and say, oh my god, I was ready, and I'm still amazed because it fumps you in the back, like you've had seven dred and seventy five pound of talk in a fraction of a second with one gear. I can't really describe that. And you think and you're ready for it, you say, yeah, I'm ready, but it surprises you and you just want more. And so the great thing about it is that you can show customers in a few

seconds and you've converted them. That's all it takes. You don't need to describe anymore. And that's going to do a lot for electric vehicles. And so because we have

a huge dealer network, I'm able to put one. I've decided to put one in every dealer in America that's an e v D, which is pretty much all of them, so that people can go down there and try it, and the dealers are going to call their customers and those who say hey, electrics not for me, I say, good, good, come along here's the key, and see what you say after you've driven it. And I've tried it out on the most hardened people I can find, and they all

and they all opens their eyes hugely. I did the same with mustind by the way, I found the most V eight petrol in the veins gas in the veins enthusedists I could find, and I gave them a mackey and said try that, and they went away. And I'm not interested. I don't I'm not interested in these things. You know. I'm always gonna love gas all my life. I do racing. I hear, I hear. I give them a macky GT Performance Edition and they come back three hours later with their mouth open and say, oh my god.

One guy came back. He said to me, oh my god, the new definition, the new definition of performances silence. I might have to write that down, he and then he texted me later he got into his you know, hold the coupe and he said, oh my god, I feel like I just stepped back ten years. So that was the most hardened guy. Fine, And I said to him, hey, you know, you think you're a petrol head. Actually you're not. You're a performance spleusiast and it just so happens that

the new performance benchmark is now is now electric. So he said, oh my god, that's it. And so that's how we knew it would it would work because real people who are passionate about that we loved it when they experienced it, and so that was a there's a barrier on the market must end because you know that preconception. But on the earth Fruit there's no barrier. People are like, well,

maybe I try it. They tried Echo Bruce once and we changed their mind about the co boost and so they quote that to me, and so I'm willing to give it a go now. And I put them in there in seconds and they're like, I gotta have it. So I'm really excited about that. And for people who want to see that torture test, just go to YouTube and search for Silver Creek for torture test and you'll see what they do to these poor trucks. It's it's

quite astonishing to see the videos. All right, So we have the Mustang out, we have the F one fifty out. Although I think a lot of people are still waiting. You guys are pretty much sold out of the next hundred thousand or some crazy number. Where where are you with the current pre sales and sales. Yeah, so it surprised us. So we knew that one day people will want over a hundred thousand of these, We did not expect that in two literally two some people one one.

We we totally undercalled it, so did the whole industry, to be honest, and so we now we realize, you know, they're ready now because the point of the truck was the performance and power. Yes, but that's not even what people talk about. What they talk about is this megapower front because it changes it into a new type of vehicle.

You've now got a luggage space which is basically the size of most medium sized suv extra and it and it's electronic way it lifts and closes, so you can use it to put your groceries in or anything you want that people want to put golf clubs in their two sets and other things. So it changes the product. People are very excited about front gating as well. I noticed.

And then this backup power system where it uses bidirectional power and it will back up your home like a like a whole house generator for three days or up to ten days. This is what people are talking about. And then we decided to put it at a price that is basically equivalent to gas including the incentive. So and no one expected that either. People expected twenty more and that meant the barriers of price have gone. So it's just about adoption and are you ready, And that

led to two orders before we switched it off. So we started off a lower run rate and this year we just we're opening the ordering in batches because we want fairness. I mean, people are really really excited about

it and we want fairness. So it will be mainly from the date when you a person order registered and it's a reservation they have at the moment, not in order, and then we open up the ability for those those customers to order and then they specify their the important order and then we give them a date about approximate date which is really important to them. And once they ordered the date and we're as long as our launch goes well, we'll be on during those dates. UM. So

that's I saw you on. We've opened up the twenty two model year and we we sold them out now um, and those customers all have dates and we'll be opening up the next set um in August, around August, and then the next set of customers will be able to order and that's a bigger batch um. And then the really big news is we have put in a capacity increase, a massive capacity capacity increase which will hit around July next year, and we're going up to a hundred and

fifty thousand units a year run rate. So on when that wave hits, which will be from July next year, we will be able to satisfy demand in a much bigger way. And so we'll keep opening these waves of orders, keeping it fair and letting customers, keeping them informed about when they're going to get it, and we'll keep doing that until we fulfill all the orders. But there will be a big, big step up when we start ordering for the next July builds. That will be a much

larger capacity uplift. So so last current e V I have to ask is the transit which is your large sized commercial van which I think most car enthusiasts overlook. That's a workhorse. You guys have sold a bajillion of those. What what was the thinking in terms of creating the transit van and what are your expectations for sales there, Yeah, so I am just as excited about that product. So

because of how I see changing people's lives. So we created Forward Pro under ted Cannie, my great colleague who now runs out of CEO of Ford Pro, and that's to focus on our fleet customers and they're thinking behind that big Forward is somewhat half of commercial vehicles and the best selling commercial vehicles in the world, both in

US and most of the rest of the world. So we needed to lead and we saw an opportunity to create a transit van using the components from the MACKI and that meant we could get really good scale and if one of them didn't sell, we could flex between them quite hell. In the end, this is not our problem.

Our problem is not enough of either of them. Um So that's that's good, and that's but it uses a similar battery to the MACKI high tech pout cells, and it uses the motor system which is evolved from the MACKI, and they integrate I C controllers from the MACKI, which means great price, great scale, and it means we can offer a van. And this is what I'm so proud of. The price of these products is what I'm just as proud of because it means it can get into everybody's hands.

That's what's important to us. So the transit it in a lot of businesses will actually start paying back from the first day. You're not talking about hey, in five years, in three years, I'm talking about the first day, and the running costs of something like half and there are and the time off the road for servicing and so on is much much less, so they have gone down really well. Um in those businesses, you must match the mileage to the available very carefully. You do not carry

extra battery. That's inefficient, you just carrying it around for nothing. And many of those routes are very known and so a certain amount of the market that product is ready to serve, not the whole market yet, but a large, large proportion. So we expected that to go well, and that again has gone much better than expected. We're having to triple volume for that vehicle as well, and we're working on now. And but what I hadn't expected is all the new use cases. So every day we're seeing

new use cases and the obvious ones. I mean, we we served the whole market delivery, which is one that people are very visible. This is only ten of our sales. Of the market, there's much bigger market is every other use you can think of for ava um And so that's what we serve with transit. But I'll give you a new use case. So we were launching ford Pro in Sonoma a couple of weeks ago. Oh and we decided to do that Ted lead This decided to do it with a wine growing region. So we did it

with Francis coppler um And and his estate. And he showed us they have an innovation where they to grow better wine, make better wine day. At the moment when they take the wine in parcels they put them in, they have to mix three parcels together in one vat because they don't have enough bats. Nearly all wine growers

do that. Trouble is you don't know which is the good parcel until a year later, so you have to mix them together and now you you mixed too good and weren't bad, and you don't know in the wine is mediocre. So his innovation that he came up with his team is to build a vat for every parcel. Now you have one parcel per vact. Trouble is you're not allowed to build above ground, because beautiful region. So

he dug into a hillside and built it underground. So he showed us a new facility is amazing, looks like a James Bond villain layer. And he and there's only you know, there's only two bighcles you can use under there. One is a diesel van. Who wants a diesel van underground? That stage four is safe, so you can do that, you just don't want to, or an electric van. So he converted his entire fleet to electric, I mean it

ly and then never look back. And so we announced this, We launched this with him a little while back, and and then of course there's I can't remember the number, but something insane number like thirty wine growing companies in US something like that. Don't quote me, but basically they all started contacting him and what are you doing. Oh, yes, I'm making one that per parcel, so my wine is just going to be top quality next year. Well they

took notice of that. Then the next group and the next group and the next group said hey, why don't we do the same, And then he said what kind of vehicles do you need? And of course he said electric transit. So we now have orders coming in all over the Blade for electric transits for wine growing. And that's just one. That's just one use and we hadn't

even thought that one. And then any time you need to bring a vehicle indoors, you can bring it indoors and they have power pro power and board, which means you bring them indoors and plug power tools in the back and they have enough power to run proper power tools. So you imagine building factories, building homes. You just put up the transit and start cutting wood up through from the back of the transit. No generators, no noise, completely independent.

So that's the use cases where we expected to see. We're seeing huge ones. And by the one that I loved mostly, you gotta be really excited. Recently was on the fifty. That one has nine point six killer lots of power. That that's a whole home. And there's I saw a startup where instead of getting takeaway food, imagine you have two couples over for dinner. Instead of getting

takeaway food, this business you you booked them online. They come to your driveway, open up the kitchen in the back and cook you dinner of your choice of that type, and they and they feed it. You know, they give you the just cooked food on your driveway, and they're going to use electric from fifties because the electric powers enough to parrel the cooking equipment, induction hobs, so on. How cool is that? I can just imagine that scaling

all over America, don't you. It's really really interesting. So let's talk a little bit about batteries. You became general manager of Battery VS. Tell us about the thinking behind that new job and where it's going. Yeah, so, um, that that job. I used to be the product development director for Team Edicine. So my role was in the design and development of the new cars, leading the teams. Obviously a large team is involved in that. Um. But in late later on they decided they would like me

to take the vehicles to market. There are so many elements there. There's the charge network, and there's buying online and how BEV customers want to be treated differently. So became a general manager, which means it was everything to do with the can after the customer and bringing those vehicles that we're designed to market. Um. So that meant

I talk with customers the whole time. I watched social media all the time and I'm still very linked to the development teams to just make sure that we're learning quickly and we're evolving those vehicles. That that's really what the job is about. The fantastic job, by the way, I'm really enjoying it. So let's talk about the announcement that was made fairly recently. Ford's leadership decided it was time to go all in on t v s and there I guess splitting into two companies. Am I am

I getting it right? Tell us about the new structure that's coming. Yeah, So Team Medicine lad the first round which delivered at least these first three products that you're

seeing the markets. We actually really well to it, and then it was seen as now is the time to organize ourselves to really comp He were the best out there for the next set of products because He's really a transformation, and it was determined Jim Farley led the team to say, hey, I don't want people walking waking up in the morning and having to think about how to grow gas and how to grow BEV because they're so different. The BEV is not just a normal gas

car with the electric motoring system. It's a completely new technology product. So he wanted to organize the teams so that they only are thinking about one of those. So that's how the team have organized. One is called Ford Blue and one is called Model E. That's the electric one obviously, UM, and there's also Ford Pro and Ford pros all about the commercial customers and their their sales and support. They don't do the development that will be done in the base in Blue or in Mode and

it's an internal company organization. I would all it UM.

And so the Model A team will be focused on everything about t vs, every aspect, from the selection of motors and controllers and electronics for efficiency, to the design and development of the vehicles, to the network charging this bidirectional power system that we've gotten, how that will work with customers, and improving the current vehicles because all of our electric vehicles are over the air update able, and when we say we plan on delivering lots of updates

for customers, we really mean that. And we have a huge cycled plan of updates and improvements to those vehicles to roll out, and so that will also be under Modeling UM and so it's just to allow the team

to really focus. We also will be setting up the same culture within that team, as we did in in team medicine, which is very flat structure leadership, supporting foyees to make changes for the customer, very efficient approval, and very can do an inclusive mindset that that brings in people from all walks of life and ethnicities to bear on the product development. We're doing so exactly like to medicine,

to be honest, just on steroids. Um. So that's the plan and as part of that, I'm taking a new role. I go back now to product development and I'll be a VP of Product Development, Global product development for electric cars now under Doug Field. Can't and I can't wait to start. So we'll talk more about some upcoming cars a little later. Let's let's stay with the concept of the infrastructure for evs, and that's both battery and charging stations. How long do we think it's going to take before

charging stations are as ubiquitous as gas stations? And I should preface that by saying Ford is part of a group that all have interoperable technology, and there's about I think charging stations and their consortium. Is that about right? Yes? So there's so we were we formed the Blue Oval Charging Network and we considered how will we support the growth of the network, who has to be huge investment and across the whole of the country and also global actually,

and how might we support that? So one way we could build our own networks. You know, we have resources. We could do that, but then would be a Ford network and the Tesla network and GM network, and that's that's not good for customers. We just want the charging network to be everywhere. So instead we chose to put together every best network in America, every one of them, and we put them together under one system, is under the Blue Oval Ford Charge Network, and it's under the

forward Pass app. So when you buy a vehicle you get free charging certain amounts, but more importantly, under one system, you've got automatic payment across that whole network. All the best ones are plug and charge. Now we were the first people to launch that. So you just plug it in and the car detects, automatically sets up and page and just plug and walk away. Then you can monitor your car over the over the year. Um. So that

was our strategy. And the reason is is because huge investment is going to come into that now now that companies see the cars coming, they're going to put huge investment in so even before we talked on our podcast, we had and sixty but we're already up to nine now plugs because it's growing every day because as a sale of the investment, and they to be regional, the networks East, West, in Central and so on, so we

we incorporate them really fast. So really just a couple of weeks, and we made a software system that it's very easy to integrate with and so no nobody ever said no to us. All of the networks are in and and it will grow hugely. It will be is the biggest network in America today, and we need to do more to communicate that because I noticed people don't know that yet. I didn't know that. I've spent week

researching what you guys are doing. That that's a that's a surprising data point that I think would could be a deciding factor for someone who has range anxiety. Even though we know the trips are all local. This is correct and so I'm definitely am going to ampy up this year to communicate that. But one of the reasons I wanted to hold on that is that I need to make sure the quality is there because a risk of if you've got multiple networks, is the qualities not there?

So we are remotely monitoring all of the stations and you would think that's enough. For a while, we thought that might be enough, but it's not actually because the terminals are you know, they have payment systems on them and it has to go through quite a few steps before it triggers, and if one of those steps goes wrong,

it doesn't allow you to charge. So we found that in some cases this system looks like it's working and doesn't, and so we decided to put out a group of people that they're called the Ford Charge Angels, and they are roaming the network with highly instrumented vehicles. In fact,

we had to specially order the instrumentation systems. They're very unique because they monitor all of the signals going between the car and the network, and they are roaming the network with the sole mission to test charges everywhere, especially if there are hot spots, and then when we know there's a problem. They were very connected to the charging networks.

We've got the CEOs on speed dial and we even asked them to repair, and if they cannot repair in a time that we deem effective for our customers, we remove them from the network so that so that customers are never sent to a Forting charger, and we can do that really fast. Now we get up to system to do that, and um, the networks are often fix it there, and then if they can't and it's not quick enough, we take it out so that you do not get rooted there. And we're unique in doing that

at the moment and the only company doing that. You're coming up on a hundred thousand UM chargers. So if you're looking for an excuse to make a big announcement, I would imagine that number is as as good a reason as any. But but let's talk about charge times. One of the complaints some e V buyers who have been dragging their feet have mentioned has been the long charge times. What's the future of this technology look like?

Will we ever get to a point where the seven minute or five minutes fill up that you would get a gasoline you could do with the electricity. What's what's the best we can hope for it? Yeah, So one of the things I'll say is, and this is like when you know you have a flip phone and you're looking at iPhone technology and you think, you know what an iPhone, but until you owned one, you didn't really know what it does. It's like saying, hey, my flip phone lasted four days and my iPhone has to be

charged every day. Therefore, I don't want an iPhone. It's like saying that. But when you own an iPhone, you realize you just plug it in a nut and it fits perfectly with your life. If you go on a long trip with an iPhone, you might sometimes charge it with a backup battery or a quick plug in because you know you're going to be using it all day. But nobody nobody went back from an iPhone to a

flip phone, and beds are the same. The perception from people is, oh, I need a vehicule that's exactly the same as my gas. This is a massively common misconception. For example, I've owned a Mackie for now a year and a half. I never had a car for more than a year and a half as my company car, and every day it's lug in my home and I

leave every day with a full tank. When I go on a business trip, I leave to the airport with a I never ever stop to interrupt my day to fill my car up, not once in a year and a half because it's already always ready. And that's what people forget about this. The thought of having to go and get gas while I'm about to go somewhere and I've forgotten to fill it. It's horrifying to me. Now

makes me angry. And then when I go on a longer trip, I type it into the route planner system and it tells me where to stop and win, and I drive for three hours and then I stop, I plug it in and walk away. It takes me precisely ten seconds to charge my car. I plug it and I go and do something else. I go and get a coffee, or I go shopping. There's many of the sites have shops next door. Or I put out my

laptop and catch up with mail. By the time I look back up again, I realized I've overstayed it and my car is now fully charged. Most of the time, to be honest, or I talked to somebody who's come to talk about the car. That happens a lot as well. But really, you know, it's a different way of thinking about it. It takes me dirty seconds to charge my car because I plug it in and I'm doing something else and most owners of modern webs will feel the

same about it, you know. So, so I wanted to say that first because that changes your life and your way you think about these products now. Later it takes on a typical trip, the car will usually take about twenty few minutes to charge because it usually hops you between fast chargers, and it will favor the fastest charges. And on most trips you'll stop and you're trying to get to a destination, so it will boost you quickly at the beginning part of the charge faster than the

later part. So it will tend to optimize you by charging maybe twenty minutes or twenty two minutes or something that's just a long enough to go and get a sandwich, restroom and back to the car really and they're off again.

So that's what it tends to do. Now, do we have technology later that will charge even faster, Yes, we do, like eight hundred volt systems, so they will charge even faster, under twenty minutes for the entire charge from you tend to Yes, these are coming as well, But honestly, it makes less difference to your trip than you think it does. So instead of twenty two minutes, you're there for ten. Okay, But as I say, you plugging them go and do something else mostly so they will get better. But but

cars are ready now, you've seem common misconception. We don't need to wait with three hundred mile cars, and we're up to three three now with that plus the network that's out that we're ready immediately. Especially you mean a lot of customers are using it as their second car. It's a complete no brainer. So it's just we have to do more to communicate that to customers and bring

customers along with us. Three hundred miles means that if you're driving sixty to seventy, which is what the highways by me are, that that's four or five six hours of driving. You still need to get out, stretch your legs, go to the bathroom occasionally, if that's right. And most people won't go below temper cent. You know, they're a bit nervous, so they don't usually go below So you have to save that thirty so it's like two seventy miles.

But you're right, if you're going faster, it will be a little bit les but it's quite a long time and most people need to stop and rest and and then you just build it into your day. Like I say you when I'm on going someone for a business trip, I stopped halfway plugging in, get a coffee, and I catch up on some mail and so usually, but I get into it, I look up and oaks, I've stayed longer, and now I'm really fully charged. I didn't just boost it.

I charged right the way back up to now and off I go again, and I arrived with too much range, and then plugging at the hotel. It's ready the next day. So it just fixed into your life more than you think it does. And the from fifty over three hundred miles go very robustly over three miles, so even better.

So so the folks who are sharping for five hundred mile range or even talking about eight hundred and a thousand mile range, that seems based on what you're saying, that really seems like it's unnecessary and not practical because the human element, even with driver assist, the human element is still going to get fatigued and still needs to

occasionally stretch their lets. So you know, they are use cases for those vehicles, and only one really does that kind of range at the moment, and so that's some customers need that, So that's okay. But but you are carrying it's not like gas. You are carrying extra weight with you and every day that is costing you money and it is changing the performance of the car and it has all that weight for handling. So carrying a five dred mile battery when you really do thirty miles

a day is a real waste. UM. So you know there's an optimum, I would say, and for some use cases you know that's okay, but it's it's a rare use case. Um. And so we're seeing once you reach three hundred, it really changes the impression of the customers. They've become much more confident around the just over three. So last battery question, UM. One of the issues I've read about is the question of either recycling or reusability of EV batteries. Are either of those anywhere off on

the horizon? Oh yes, So that's super important to us, um, And for two reasons. It's becoming clear that the supply of batteries and all of the chemicals needed are a real challenge. And as the whole world ramps up to electric vehicles, it will split into those that are able to get the materials and batteries and those that are not and if somebody hasn't started already and it's very far advanced into that, they're going to have a huge problem.

And so that's why you've seen that we invested over eleven billion dollars in Blue Oval City, the largest that I know of investment of its kind in America. And it builds an entire city to build trucks and then and also two plants so far for batteries, a huge amount of batteries. And it also vertically integrates the chemicals supply required for the batteries. Um So that's the first stage. So because we know that we need to secure enough batteries for millions of cars, where is that plant to

build those batteries? Located? Tennessee? Tennessee? Because am I remembering this correctly? The marquee was made I think in Canada or Mexico, I don't remember which it's it's Mexico, yes, because that was the next plant that we had available. Um So that's why we went there. You know, we're gonna be using lots of our plants and and and and and we will fill them up as we go. So we kind of fill them up with whichever plant

is ready and some other factors. Actually, that's why that one was Mexico and the from fifty in Dearborn, UM. And so I will you start filling up all our gas plants one at a time. So the Blue Level City Complex is six miles square in West Tennessee, UM and the battery part correction is Central Kentucky with twin battery plants. So yeah, it's it's huge, a better but a really exciting one. And the one you asked me

is about recycling. So we tied with Redwood Materials. J. B. Strobell was one of the founders of Tesla and he now runs a company called Redwood Materials. They're very high ambitions in recycling and we are partnered with them. And so we are beginning now using um scrap from battery production to recycle it to produce materials for new battery production. And as the batteries start coming back, we're going to start using them to extract materials and reuse them back

into our supply plan. It does two things. One, it secures battery supply when some of these chemicals and materials could become scarce, and it also allows us to reduce the price, and we have some quite ambitious price targets for that recycled material and I mean the commodity. So they move up and down every day. You know, in some cases it looks very good value compared to buying on the open market, and your market forces will determine

the price of those chemicals. So we're one of the biggest operations that I know of to do that, and they will be on site in Blue Oval City from the start, really quite fascinating. Let's talk a little bit about some of the things that we're looking at in the future. You mentioned how proud you are of the price points that you've introduced cars like the Marquee or

the Transit or the Lightning. Um, what do you think is going to happen going forward in terms of pricing, I not a not a battery hybrid, but a regenerative I guess p h t V hybrid. The Maverick was priced at pretty in expense of two hours for a compact four door pickup truck. How cheap can battery evs get in the future? Well today, So the FRO fifty Lightning with the included incentive that's available is really in the range right now of gas from right in the

heartland of where we sell most of them. So I could argue that today we have one of the first vehicles that has reached parity with an equivalent truck. And I say equivalent. Yet the electrics faster than any from fifty we ever made more talk than any from fifty we ever made quite handles better, etcetera, etcetera than any f fifty ever. And it starts at the price of the gas. So there's one segment where we've managed to

achieve it. That one is with the incentive, So that's helped us, helps it bring to bring it to more people. We are working on other vehicles not announced yet to bring the vehicles to more people, a lower cost vehicle. I can't say anything more about it at the moment, but that's one of our missions. And part of this huge investments we're making in batteries is obviously supporting that, because the biggest component by far is the battery. And already I can say that Mattie is a similar cost

to run over five years as a Ford Escape. The total cost spent, it's the same as a foud Escape already, so that is also supported by an incentive at the moment, but that's amazing for those that wake up to see that now they're getting a huge bargain. And the charging networks already reached nine plugs, so they're available everywhere and there's hardly anyone there yet, so you also have the network to yourself, so it's a V ownership at the

moment is just fantastic. You'll also find the parking spot for many places right next to the entrance because that's where the electric spot is, and they're half empty as well, so when you drive there, you feel like a V I P. So it's a really good time to get into them now. But we will. You know, we do have plans to bring vehicles that are even lower cost um and we're moving to more segments. So the three rows are next one along where the real family car

size that is so popular in America. So currently the Ford Explorer, which I think comes with a third row, is available hybrid. You mentioned you're looking to do a three row suv. Can we assume we're going to see an E Explorer sometime soon, So yeah, we've announced that we're working on that one. It's it's a three row and the Explorer is indeed three row, so we're working on that now, but I would say it's the same segment as a three row explorer, I wouldn't call it

any explorer. We intend to reinvent what these vehicles can be. And again, it will not be an explorer of an electric motor in it. It will be a new a vehicle that offers new experiences that are as game changing as bidirectional power and megapower funkies for the front fifty, but something things that are designed to delight the customers in this segment, the things they want in their daily lives. I won't say more about it yet, but intends to

be an incredible vehicle. Again, so previously you said evy adoption is similar to the process that the iPhone had to go through. Any any groundbreaking product requires a readjustment into your life. Is that what you're seeing with ev adoption. Once people make it part of their routine, it's no longer the electric car. It just becomes the car. Oh yes, I mean universally, when people make the switch, no one

goes back. It's the only analogy. And when I try to get across to people to use is the whole moving to iPhone or smartphone from footphone, no one goes back. And before people moved, they didn't know that. They thought they understood what an iPhone was, and because it looks similar to similar to a phone, but they don't didn't realize what it really is. And once they owned it, then they suddenly switched. They will never go back, and

they told everyone they know is exactly the same. The most misleading thing about evs is they look like a car, and therefore you think it's like the cars you've known all your life, and it's nothing like that. So the more people we can get in there to feel it, the more people it will convert quickly. So let's talk about that. You know a lot of people a few years ago, we're projecting five. It doesn't feel like it's

going to take that long. Where do you think the EV market is as percentage of new vehicle sales in or or Yeah, So if you think every person who gets one, we'll never go back, that's pretty much the rule. Then you start thinking about how fast is that going to take? Now, it took ten years for the iPhone to get everywhere right now or similar phones right so it took time for that because people take time, and so projections we changed weekly because we're trying to keep

ahead of it. We we intend to be push ahead of the market UM and we're saying, you know, globally, half of our production it's going to be UM electric and that's millions of the year. When when do you think the last internal combustion engine car new that is manufactured in the US? Susion possible to tell. There's there's some use cases that are particularly difficult to solve. For battery, I actually think it will run for long a long time, but they will be they won't. There will be you know,

for specific reasons or for price. That's that's why they will keep going. The best products will be electric. It's like, I mean, even if you look at tools. I recently bought a Listiam iron leafblower, and the first generation were a little bit less powerful than gas and much more expensive. Well, this next generation I had a choice same as gas and just a little bit more expensive or much more powerful than gas and more expensive. And that happen to

just a couple of years. By the way, it's much quite a much more controllable and I'm never going back to a gas one. But there are use cases for gas. Belief lift blow is still in certain cases, right, So I think gas will run for a long time. It will be increasingly regulated for emissions, and it will get more and more expensive to regulate for emissions. It will be less and necessarieson to to need it. But I believe there'll be a reason for a while. So it

was impossible to predict at the moment. So so let's talk about interior design in electrics. UM, I think Tesla gets the credit or the blame for just removing just about every manual mechanical button and putting it on the screen. I personally have found that to be frustrating if especially when I'm driving and it's three nested, three levels in and I have to take my off the road because I just want to lower the fan or increase the heat.

What sorts of buttons should stay? UM, A mechanical button, like if I want to put my seat heat or on, why do I have to dig my way through three or four menus and and go down just the just the air conditioning heating system? Can we please keep that as mechanical buttons? So here's the way we think about it. So how many buttons on the front of your iPhone. None. Would you like me to put some buttons on the

front of your icephone? Actually? Yeah, I have the on the side, I have the volume and the on off, which which but the it's the things that I use every time I get into the car. I don't want to go digging for And by the way, half my cars have too many buttons I have. You know, there are vehicles that have. You know, it looks like it's a fighter jet. I don't need that either. I like the idea of the the screen, but you know, the

heat the seat warmers are a perfect example. And one of the things I thought was so interesting about the Marquee was the volume button was a physical button at the bottom of the screen and when you turn the screen on it I believe the same set of have to touch buttons are at the bottom of the screen always am I am? I remembering that correctly? You are so so. The philosophy is this This the reason why I ask you that question. The philosophy is, um, you

do you want to do better than buttons? Okay, that's the philosophy, and the ones that you need, when you need them should be first surfeits. The whole point is that you do not have to dig and you have access to it when you need it, and that's the skill and getting that just right. There are some things you need buttons for or or control sticks, like the indicator.

I imagine we're going to have the control stick for a long time because you use it all the time and it works really well, so don't take that away. And certain other things like the button to get out of the car, you really need that. But other buttons can be better when we can move them or change them to context. So for example, you mentioned I want heated seat immediately, so yes, we keep the heated seat on first surface at all times on the matching um.

And you want access to the heating controls absolutely and temperature and so on. So we and we launched the car with a set of buttons are pervasive. If they're always there, then our customers gave us feedback and they want an extra button or one taken away, or they want the hood released to appear when they stop. Now, with an electronic screen, you can change it, and we're

about to change it over the air. Actually, we're going to do a big human machine interface refreshed this year, and we're going to listen to the feedback from customers and make it better. And that's the great thing about a digital screen. You can make it better where a physical button is there and you can't. I give you an example, a button for the cameras on our vehicle. People say, I've gotta have the button on a truck.

I'm always using the camera. So I say, well, at the moment, you have to press the button once for the front, to press it again for the rear, press it again for another view, and you press it so many times and you get it wrong and you cycle back around again instead, as soon as that sensor sense is something nearby, when you're at low speed parking automatically brings up the cameras and then it presents you with the direct camera button for the feed that you want,

and then it remembers the one you use most. So now you pull up to the parking space, it automatically brings up your favorite camera. You don't touch anything. If you don't like it and you want a different view today, you just one touch a new view instead of pressing the same button four times. So that's you know, another example of you think you want the button until you

have a system that works better. Now we understand you can't always guess perfect, so you always give the customer the controls, but you bring them at the right time. You don't need the camera button when you're at sixty. So that's the design and we never get it with perfect first, so we have over the air update and we keep improving it um And that that control of you mentioned is that's an amazing piece of technology. Is brand new. It's molecularly bonded to the screen, first in industry,

and that's actually it's actually like an input device. It's not it's not just a volume knob, and we're going to unlock that in the next in the software update later this year. It's gonna so that it can control lots of things because it's very pleasing when you turn it, it feels good, and its control volume, but we can also make a control temperature, heat and other things, and we can use it for gaming as well. So we're

about to unlock that button. It was always planned. We couldn't get there for job one, but but now we have customer inputs that we're going to make it better. So I have two other questions. I have two or three other questions I have to ask you before we get onto our favorite questions. The first you hinted at earlier I was reading you're prowling on social media looking for people complaining about their products and helping them resolve

whatever issues they have. You personally called them to tell us about about what you've why you do that, and what you've learned from that. Yeahs as part of the launch of the vehicle and watching startups, and we learned how they watch social media because these are exciting product products, so people talk about them all the time. So there's a there are forums like the Macke Forum for from Macke obviously, and it's a rich source of direct customer feedback.

The customers are taking video, photographs, big descriptions about what they see, both positive and negative, and it's the richest source of input I've ever had. So I watch it every morning. My whole team watch it every morning. My wife sick of me watching videos every minute I get because the customers are telling you directly what they say, you can't buy that, and then we use that to develop the cars. So that's why I watch that. Then

I see customers struggling with things we've already fixed. And at first the buyers of the premium Maggie, they were really bad people. They really did their research. They either are experienced before or they've done a lot of research, and so they all help each other. You watch them struggling and they help each other, and they they've learned it,

there's no problem. But when we went with the GT, I'm noticing more customers are having basic problems because they haven't learned the basics of ev They just loved the car so much that they bought one. So those customers, I'm seeing that, and I call them because I want to hear from them what they're experiencing. And every time I never hear what I think I'm going to I think I know, I speak to them, it is almost never exactly the same. So I do that a couple

of times a week. I asked the permission. Of course, they love that. There hasn't been one that haven't ended up with an hour on the phone with them hearing about their experiences, and you know, their family and how they're using the car and so on, and that the richest source of input. And then I work out how might I help people like them. And for example, with the newer cars, they don't know the basics of EV. They don't know the evs dropped range in the cold.

They don't know how much power that their heater can use, especially if they left it outside and the whole batteries at minus tend degrees C. They don't know to preheat. They don't know that the car will heat its battery when it's plugged in. It will make sure the battery is kept MP to them. They don't know that. And finally, they don't know how to reset their driver history, which the car has learned their behaviors over a week, and

we'll give you an accurate range. It's very accurate. But if the customers not been looking after the car as a BEVE owner, then their range is going to drop a lot, and they can instantly reset it back and then change their behavior and they will see the results and means immediately. So they don't know any of those things, and they show them that they're usually super delighted, and then they've learned how to control their car. They've changed,

you know, the temperature of a couple of degrees. They use the heated seat and stereo wheel and they preheat the car, their range goes from a massive loss to like five loss and then they write to me afterwards and they're just absolutely delighted. So and now I go back to my team and saying, how are we going

to show customers. We have put it in the instructions, we have put it on the app, we have sent them messages, and we do tell them to plug the car in if the temperatures cold every time they exit the car when it's cold, but they don't know why they're going to do it. So some customers just ignore all of that until we speak to them. So we're trying to think of how to help them, and we're

trying everything. It's basically psychology. So I'm thinking of all different methods and we brainstorming how will we do it? And different customers, each one is different and have their own ways. But you know, one way I'm considering at the moment it is a kind of competitive way where we say to you, hey, did you know you're in

the bottom third of range for this car? And that will make the customers say, hey, why am I in the bottom dead And then we'll explain to them and now they're listening because you're bringing a little a little peloton gamification to managing range. That's right to to get their attention so that they care. I mean many customers know already, but a lot don't. And as we go mainstream there will be more of those. So it's really fun to do it. But that's why I call customers.

It's great fun. Anyway. I love I love talking to them and here and feedback really interesting. I know you do a lot of traveling. You you previously discussed an interesting scenario and Shanghai about how families see within a vehicle and how different it is from the US. Can you explain that and tell us about some other differences you see in customers around the world. How did different

users user vehicles differently? Oh? Yes, so we're all humans with similar needs, but due to cultural changes, we behave differently. So we were developing a global vehicle and China is one of the leaders in electric vehicle development, so we spent a long time there. Actually, I think I was

sixteen weeks in China in total that year. And we did human centric development, which means you don't ask them what they want, you watch them with their permission, of course, and and watch them with their families, and we had people to translate for us, not just the language, but

the what's going on. And frankly, if I've been watching them without those people, I would have missed it, and they would We watched them in the car and where they sit, and then we'd ask some questions and then the person the person would say, did you see that? I said, we'll see what? So did you see how? The question was asked of the uh man, and before he answered, he looked at the grandmother. No, I didn't see that, said yet, what do you know what that is?

And I don't know what it is. That's because it's typical in Chinese culture. The grandmother will be buying that first car for the family, and so and the and the grandmother also will take will bow to the child. The child will be in the second row, and so the grandmother will be even next to the child or in the third row, because the mother will be in the second row looking after the child. So the third row of the car is super important because the grandmother

is buying the car. My god, we never would have known that, and we did not give the attention to the third row the same as the first row that would not have been our plan. And so things like that you can only get by watching people and learning. And even if you ask a Chinese person what's different about here, no one can answer what's different between me and everybody else because they don't know what to say. You have to watch them and say, oh, look look

that's different to what we know. So that's that's that's one there. That's one observation of many, many, many, but that that taught us a lot. And when they're evaluating to buy that car, the grandmother will get will will come with them, will sit in that third row, and we'll give them their opinion on the car. And and the buyer is going to pay attention to that grandmother just because of cultural and also the fact they're buying

the car. So there's one um. Others in i'd say Europe, many more people don't have gary a garage, so they can't put a charger in, and so they're very interested in how they're going to own an electric car having to go and charge it, and that does require some change to your life, and you can build that into your life, but you do have to consider it. So they have different priorities for charging speed and where there's

charges available to them and so on. So we're having to make sure we make vehicles that suit their life. They typically want the eight vehicles that charge faster because they're going to have to go and sit there every week. And I also asked another customers about how they live with their cars. And then one guy I asked him, I said, hey, would you want us to change that charging speed to fifteen minutes? He said no, way said that surprises me. He said, that's the best forty minutes

of my week. I go out, I sit there and read a book and charge the CARSA Okay, I don't expected that. As I say, the customers don't say what you expect when you asked them. Huh. Quite quite a interesting. I'm gonna throw you one curveball question before we get to our favorites, and that is I have to assume you saw the film Forward versus Ferrari. What were your thoughts on that story? And you grew up in London? Were you a fan of Ken Miles? Yeah, that's a

good one. So, I mean, we love that story. We we we all went as a team to watch that, to watch the you know, the struggle. I mean and it's all about, you know, people feeling you can't do something and then overcoming it. You know, that's what you know, of course it's all about. And it's a corporate forward there. You know. It's fun to watch. It's done in a really cool way, but really it's also about cars and about pushing yourself to win and when you didn't expect it.

We all love that. We felt a little bit. You know, no one expected us to win with an electric car. Where when we said we were introducing electric car, I think it's fair to say most of the world did not expect us to to be the number one recommended car this year of consumer reports, in our first generation. I mean, I've got to say that's kind of a stretch even for us. We expected to do well, but that is beyond what we What we achieved was really

respect what has gone before us. So we saw the um alignment of that film with some of the work we were doing. And Ken Miles was a super unique individual in this He's got his flaws, like all heroes, they've got their flaws. So we we love that. We all went to watch it together. We've we've watched it many times. Really interesting, well I know only have you for a few more minutes, So let me jump to my favorite questions that we ask all of our guests,

starting with what have you been streaming these days? Have you had a whole lot of time to watch anything on um, Netflix or Amazon or anything like that. So I've got twin twin boys as well, ten year old, So it's work and family, that's it. And but when I listened every week, I listened to the Inside EVS podcasts, Tom Malogny and Dominic and Kyle. They are super geek about electric and I find it fascinating. Every week I met met them and we've we've been through some of

the cars together. Taking Tom in the from fifty for the first time was amazing. He's super experienced with EVS and he was still amazed by the product, so he was the journalist referred to. It was so cool to see him so excited about it. He's ordered one one of the first people to get it. So I love that podcast because it's so detailed and if you hold you so much, and they care so much about getting

it right. They've worked with EVS for fifteen years or more, so that's what that's one of the first things I listened to when when I've got time, are you I do what I'm doing? Other task I listened to every week. H really interesting. Tell us about your mentors who helped shape your career. Yeah, so, UM, I always loved Virgin and what they did there external, let's say, because they're totally focused on the customer. As I went through my career, that's the thing that I grew to do. That's my

trade market. I love just making amazing stuff that they love. So he is obsessed by customer and and so that that's one of the things I He was an inspiration and it still is now. And I saw how that worked out. You know, you look after the customer and everything else will look after itself. UM. I had earlier mentors in engineering who was superb engineers. UM and one guy, guy called Franz lemon Um. He was retiring and in Germany.

I worked in Germany for ten years. And when he went to do his um retirement do they had to move it and we didn't know why he and they moved it to the showroom and he turned up to the showroom. There were three thousand people there. Wow, everybody from the site had turned up. It was unbelievable. It had a very moving speech on stage. And and I have formed a habit of interviewing those who were retiring. I asked them, and always not in one ever said no. And I sat down with him and I said, could

you give me one piece of advice? Because the guy had been so effective, so loved, I've done so much, because you know, could you tell me one thing that you that we would pass on? And he said, yep, straight away. And he said, at the beginning of my career, I I would focus on the most academic, the most brilliant, and this is how I would choose people. But by the end of my career, I also I saw a different pause. I saw a person who wanted to do

it so bad, don't do anything. They'd learn everything they needed to about it. And all of our employees are very educated. You know, we're lucky. We educate from great institutions, so they're all they're all clever. But the one when somebody really wants it, that head to do anything to work to get it. He said, those people always do well because they want it so bad. And he said, that's how I recruited people from then on and I never forgot that. When I'm interviewing now, if someone's not

perfect background, that doesn't matter. If they've got they've learned about the subject and they want it badly, I will give that person a chance. And it's never worked out wrong since. So that was an early mentor maybe ten years ago, but I never forgot that. So that's that's how I feel my teams up now. Really interesting, let's talk about books. What are some of your favorites and

what are you reading right now? Yeah, So A Team of Teams um by General Stanley McCrystal and David Silverman amazing is using the story of the teams in Afghanistan and what they faced and how to uh and then it's relation to business and it's really about instead of one person at the top telling everyone what to do and they all have to come to them and they're

a bottleneck. Instead, you make teams of teams. Each of your teams, you make sure you're aligned on what you're trying to do, and then you give them the space to operate and you trust them and either can be much more effective that way, and that's what they found in Afghanistan. Each team was independent and could could operate even without communication back to the central Amazing. So that's one.

Another one's called Nudge Cass Sunsteine and Richard Tyler, just amazing about how um a lot of companies in society nudge you every day and you have no idea how much you're being nudged. It's but it's super important. And when you're developing cars and products, if you nudge someone where the right button is, they'll press the button. If you don't, they you know, they can't work out with the buttons, so they use it in supermarkets and all

the things you might imagine. It's fascinating book. I really, I really recommend that that you your listeners read that one. It's just a wonderful book. Quite interesting. And our final two questions, what sort of advice would you give to a recent college grad who was interested in a career in either automotive design and manufacturing or battery and electronic technology.

So I would say, you do your research and look at what customers are saying and and and think about what you would like to do as part of that, and then and build your knowledge up. First, show your interest in it, and then approach some companies who you feel moving in that space. Who you think maybe leading on winning in that space. And once upon a time that was really Silicon Valley and here you see that

was really moving. But I believe now you know, you're seeing automotive companies of showing their moving into technology and extremely interesting technology and with a battery electric vehicle future and autonomous I think it's one of the most exciting sectors. And if you come to these you can make a difference. Here, you're not just a number you you will have You'll be able to train and make a real difference in products that are the second most expensive thing that people

buy in their lives. And I think I think I would say there was a time when people said, hey, all cars are going to be similar soon and there will be a commodity and that may be very sad. And I think we've seen the first round of battery electric peoples couldn't be more wrong. There's nothing like that.

They're just like gas in the fact that there's a whole suite of products with different attributes and feel to them, and there's a new level of performance that we could never do with gas as well, So it's even more exciting than ever before. So I think this sector is extremely important. Look for some of the companies that you admire in that space. I don't forget about the O E. M automotive companies because I think there's nowhere I would

rather be than in this company doing this. This is even more exciting than the startups to me, because we're going to change the world with this. So fascinating and our final question, what do you know about the world of technology automobile manufacturing design today that you wish you knew twenty five years ago or so when you were

first getting started for Wow? Yeah, so, I mean it took it took me years of working as an engineer in my little world, taking targets from whoever gave you, gave them from above and working in my closed area with goggles on. Right, that that's how I worked for many many years. I didn't I wasn't looking up to where my contribution played into the full vehicle. They didn't really encourage that either, And I wish I had said told on them and it was my doing and why

and is that world class? And how can we push the boundaries? If I'd done that earlier, it would have been even more exciting. So it's just you tend to get into a job, especially in I guess the big o ems you're a small cog in a big system. I wish I'd looked up earlier to where does a small cog fit in and why? And I'm encouraging everyone in our company to do that now, and certainly everybody in Moodily is going to be doing that. So that's why I wish I knew thirty years ago. I wish

I had kept that wide of you. While I'm it's important to get into details and work on details, very important, but you also must keep that overview of where does this sitting and fitting and why? Huh? Really quite fascinating, Darren, Thank you for being so generous with your time. We have been speaking to Darren Palmer. He is the general

manager of Battery Electric Vehicles at Ford. If you enjoy this conversation, we'll be sure to check out any of our previous podcast that we've done over the past eight plus years. You can find them at iTunes, Spotify, a cast, wherever you feed your podcast fix. We love your comments, feedback and suggestions. You can write to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. You can sign up for my daily reading list at Ridhults dot com. Follow

me on Twitter at rid Halts. I would be remiss if I did not thank the Crack team that helped put these conversations together each week. Mohammed Remaui is my audio engineer. Sean Russo is my researcher. Paris Wald is my producer Atka val Bron is our project manager. I'm Barry Rihlts. You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.