Marketing and Books – Live Episode 9

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Guest: Douglas Burdett Topic: Marketing Books

Discussion Points • Themes and main takeaways from 2020 • The book you’ve learnt the most from • The best marketing books to read right now • What to look out for in 2021 – books • Tips on reading, consuming and learning from books • Planning for 2021

Enjoy the Episode - Happy Marketing!

Website Thingy: www.marketingstudylab.co.uk  The Professional Bit: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petersumpton/  Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/marketingstudylab/  Tweet Tweet: https://twitter.com/cousinp81 

Transcript (this transcript isn’t 100% accurate but provides a decent representation of the conversation – soz for any confusion)

Peter Sumpton Okay, there you go. We are live. Hello, Douglas. Welcome.

Douglas Burdett Hi. Good to be here. Fantastic. I've waited ages to get you on here because today, we're going to talk.

Peter Sumpton We're saying sorry.

Douglas Burdett I was on once before. Yes. So that's the marketing study lab podcast. So this is the live, so we stepped it up again for this one. Okay, okay. Oh, pressures on great.

Peter Sumpton No pressure at all. But I've been, I've been waiting ages for this one, because I decided for you to hop on this live at the end of the year, because of what you do for your labour of love, rather than your day job. And I think it's a really good way to summarise what's been happening throughout the year, in marketing and in and around the topic of marketing. So first and foremost, could you just give the listeners a brief intro to yourself and what you do?

Douglas Burdett Sure, so I live in Virginia, I have a small marketing agency, we like to work with manufacturers and industrial companies.

And in my free time, that's a joke. I do this marketing book podcast, which I've been doing for almost six years now. And each, it's the marketing book Podcast, where each Friday, I publish an interview with the author of a new marketing or sales book, and I read here I crossed the 300 episode number. So 300 books on the show. And or when I started the podcast, I was about 10 episodes in because I had read those books. And that's when I realised I was actually going to need to read each book

for each interview, so it was sort of like taking the wrong exit on the motorway or the realising, oh, well, okay, I guess I'm gonna read a book every week. But I do that, and it's been really good for me. And I've enjoyed it. I like learning. And I like helping people and I hear from it's in over 150 countries now. And I hear from people all around the world, pretty much every day, they they messaged me on LinkedIn, and, you know, tell me that they listen to the podcast, or find a particular book or interview helpful, or, more often than not, they asked me what, for book recommendations. So I don't want anyone not even Peter Sumpton to have to read 300 books to find the right one. So it's really only 30 seconds, I'm able to say, Oh, I know, just the book, you should read that particular challenge you're describing. So that's also for any of your viewers or listeners, please connect with me on LinkedIn. And I can provide any kind of recommendations to books or other resources that I know of, for whatever challenge folks are facing. The only thing I ask is include a message. I know that what you're up to, and you're not some spam bot. Yeah, yeah,

Peter Sumpton absolutely. that's a that's a given nowadays, isn't it? And we've all got to interact a little bit better than than just subscribe, connect, follow, or whatever we're doing in the world. Just as a side note, so you realise, but before we get into a few takeaways from 2020, and what to look forward to in 2021. So you realised a few episodes in that you'd have to read a book a week. For me? I've never been a strong reader. It's something that I'm not ashamed of. But I don't like the fact that I'm a strong reader. And I just I've never managed to get into books as such, you clearly liked or enjoyed reading, unless you wouldn't have started what you did. But did you? I mean, how do you how do you do that keep up that consistency of reading a book a week? Or is it just? Well, it just I find it quite an easy task.

Douglas Burdett Well, you build it into your routine, and it's only one book a week. Sometimes. It's one and so on. weekend mornings, I may spend a couple hours reading, which is not you know, it's not bad for me. And, and a couple mornings during the week, you know, before work, I will read the book, and then I just do the one interview a week and it's on Fridays. And it's a it's just, it's just kind of part of the routine. It's probably like a lot of people. A lot of your viewers might be people who exercise regularly, and I do that. But it's just something you build into your routine. And so I do that, but maybe I should explain a little bit more about what compels me from an emotional standpoint. Yeah, please. I came from this is the motivation for doing it. I don't do it for a living but I came from this advertising background, I worked at these enormous ad agencies back in the 30 years ago in New York. And then, when I started my own firm, almost 20 years ago, it was a real advertising focused firm. And advertising is a shadow of its former self, okay. And so I saw that things were starting to change, but I could see they were starting to change permanently. And I kind of felt like I was, I was too young to retire. And I was, you know, I didn't know what to do. So I, what I did was I went back to what I had done in grad school after I got out of the army, whereas I was just reading books about different career fields, and knocking around until I found something I liked. And an author of a friend of mine, recommended I go into advertising and I asked a professor in school, and she gave me a copy of Ogilvy on advertising. And this was in the 1980s. So I thought, I read that book. And it, it changed everything for me, I said, I want to do I'm excited about that. And that's how I went off in that direction. So what happened was when I still had advertising clients, but I was seeing all everything was starting to change. And I kind of went back to just throwing myself in the books hoping I would, you know, find something and I stumbled upon David meerman, Scott's book, the new rules of marketing and PR, first or second edition, it's now in its seventh edition. And, and I saw it, that's where it's going. I felt like I had another bite at the career Apple, it was in the right book at the right time can really transform things. The other issue is that I was as an ad guy, I was starting to have to bring website people to my meetings with clients. And clients were slowly starting to ask me about these. The Internet, and this this Google thing, and what was clearly a fad, social media. So I, I started to feel really irrelevant, like I was growing dinosaur scales, and I just hated that more than most people. So that's when I really threw myself into the books after, you know, picking up on David meerman Scott's. And I started to see how that could kind of fuel some hope and some, you know, new direction. And I was always listening to marketing podcasts. And I particularly enjoyed podcasts where they interviewed authors. So I guess, at some point, I said, I, I want to try this podcasting thing. And so I kind of started the podcast that I wanted to listen to, but it was this one episode of my adult, you know, my career working life, where I was really starting to feel irrelevant. And I didn't, and I really, really didn't like that. That's what kind of fuels my interest in, in reading. And like I said earlier, it's really a lot of fun to do it. When I hear from people who say, Hey, your your podcast is helped me get a new job, or it's helped me with ideas at work. And there's really nothing better than than helping, I mean, look what you do.

Peter Sumpton And well, thank you for that book. I mean, I got I got onto your podcast, through john experience said, check this podcast out. And, you know, listen, listen to the first one. And because it was about books, and I'm not a very strong leader, this is just music to my ears. You mean, I can listen to this author, talk about what's in his book without reading the book and get the number one points off it. This is fantastic. Keep it coming. Keep it coming. And, you know, I've been I've been a fan ever since. So it's more

Douglas Burdett now I'm gonna keep doing it.

Peter Sumpton Yeah, yeah,

there's no, there's no getting off this wheel. But the thing that I really liked about what you were saying then, was the fact that you, you recognise the fact that things were changing, and you didn't have that skill set to cope with what was changing in the world. And a lot of people don't have that skill to, to want to change and to feel that, well, I don't know and understand this digital stuff, or this technology stuff or this iPhone thingy. I'll just ignore it and I'll try and curve my career around it and, and play on the I don't know card. And you know, it's cued us to you to, to recognise that and do something about it. I don't think a lot of people do.

Douglas Burdett Yeah, there's a lot of people out there that are still the news release experts. That's like the HubSpot founder. He referred to marketers that didn't have a lot of skills as he called them press release hires, meaning that was all you had to do was he doesn't hire these kind of people, but it's sort of a, you know, fax marketing, fax advertising, you know? So it's a little thing.

Yeah, you could

you could buy some it was some service where it would basically send a fax out promoting like an ad but then I think at least the United States they cracked down on that so that they weren't clogging up fax machines, you know, Mark ruin everything.

Peter Sumpton Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Douglas Burdett All only takes a few, you know.

Peter Sumpton I mean, I remember seeing a fax machine fax coming through the only faxes that ever came through. Were adverts trying to sell toner for the faxes? And I just thought it's quite ironic, quite ironic that you're trying to sell toner for a fax machine that has got enough ink to print the fax. And if it didn't, then you wouldn't get the ad. I just thought that I like the irony behind that.

Douglas Burdett Yes, yes. I guess they're hoping that you'd be able to read some of it?

Peter Sumpton Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Excellent. So that's a bit of background, which is all well and good. But what I'd like to do is focus on 2020, and your learnings from from the books that you've read, throughout this year, of which, Oh, actually, before we do that, take me through the, the gap in suppose it was a gap, the gap in the marketing book podcast where it was all with cocktails. And where did that come from?

Douglas Burdett Well,

it came from my muse.

Peter Sumpton Everybody knows your muse,

Douglas Burdett a shout out to my Scottish listeners. And actually, you know what? I know you people think I just drink all day here. I just got a bottle of wine from a past guest, Jim Stern, author of AI, but a book about marketing and artificial intelligence. But what happened was, I didn't have a gap. I continued to publish interviews with authors every Friday. But when the the lockdown started in March, I, I think I had the last operation in the United States, I had my shoulder repaired, and so that I can go back to playing for the New York Yankees. And it was a one of those rotator cuff things.

Peter Sumpton I think, the giants, sorry,

Douglas Burdett yes. So the, so I was at home, I had the thing, and I was at home anyway. But then we had an office and everyone left the office. Nobody wanted to come back. I think they were trying to get away from me, and I can't blame them. And then I started hearing from listeners, who were saying, gosh, I just got laid off what I need to reinvent myself I needed they were sharing with me, they were saying what can I do, and I was really happy to hear from them, despite the bad news so that I could maybe offer them some comfort or something, something to go do you know, to get back on the horse. And at the same time, my son who's a paramedic, he was out there on the front lines of all this. And I just thought, you know, there's some really brave people doing wonderful things. And I thought, what, what could I do? And I thought, you know, why don't I just have a pot of a daily episode, except on Fridays, where I would interview past guests who'd been on the show, and ask them what they thought about what was going on. Because everybody was kind of wondering trying to figure out what what the new normal is, what what they're what they're doing. So with a nod to Jerry Seinfeld, comedians in cars getting coffee, I started authors in quarantine getting cocktails. And so we would have the interview later in the day, you know, the cocktail hour, I don't want all your people thinking I drink this all day,

Peter Sumpton when we know this, this nine 9am till 10am thoughts that sacred?

Douglas Burdett Yeah, and it is after noon right now in the East Coast. So I guess I can glass there. But, um, so what happened was what was interesting to me is I said, Alright, I'm thinking about doing this. And I sent an email out to the over 200 authors that have been on the show in the past. And I said, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this just a daily show where I can reintroduce you to the audience and the listeners, and we can talk about what you're thinking what you're working on, you know, what do you think? And within one hour, over 100 authors responded and said, I'm in I'm in I'm not, I'm at home. I'm not travelling, I'm not speaking. And a probably statistically significant number said, Doug, I'm already drinking. I'll talk to you. So I launched it, and I got through 66 episodes. So that went from like the beginning of April, through the very beginning of July, and then my, my liver needed to rest. So no, but what I did was I would then publish on every day, except for Friday, didn't want to interrupt that cadence. And then I cut it back to Monday through Thursday. And I that's how I got through 66. And it was really great. And it was really particularly good for my family, because it meant that there was only An hour where they weren't having to talk to me, or listen to me, particularly my, my kids were now in their 20s, who were here, but then they've since moved on. And so it was it was really fun. And they even got some accolades from some top blogs, you know, saying, you know, this is a good thing to be listening to right now. And so I was again, very excited to see that people found found value in it. And it was really that that that's what that was authors and quarantine getting cocktails, and, but continued on with the regular scheduled programming.

Peter Sumpton Lovely. So can you can, he says maybe it's time to return to quarantine cocktails. So think you might have started a trend?

Douglas Burdett Oh, really? Oh, my goodness. So are there? People make King? Can we see what people are? messaging? Yes. Yeah, yeah,

Peter Sumpton we've got a couple of messages. Haven't got a huge audience. But those that do, I'll share anyway, see

Douglas Burdett it, I see it.

Peter Sumpton So James says he's not a strong reader also. And he's subscribed to the podcast already. So there you go. You've you've Oh,

Douglas Burdett that's a that's great. James. Um, you know, we can all learn in different ways. We're all different learners different ways. And honestly, the the I continue, it's great having the podcast because I know that people are expecting an episode once a week. So it's sort of like, Okay, well read the book. So I kind of like having a workout partner, all of my audiences, my workout partner can. Ola Meyer is a friend in St. Louis, longtime listener. And once we were at a conference in Boston, he actually bought me a couple of scotches, and I still remember that. And, yeah, you know, um, and actually, he, he's also an adjunct professor at Washington University in St. Louis. And he had me Skype into his class, and I, a growing number of academics have me do that, where I'm, you know, they want me to have the students listen to the show. And then I Skype in and answer questions or, you know, do things like that. So if there's any academics out there, I just heard from one today at Hofstra, who said, Hey, you know, maybe you can come and talk to my class at the end of the semester or something like that. So I'm happy to help. And why, Peter, because I believe children are our future. And we should treat them well, and let them lead the way.

Peter Sumpton This is song in essence, I just can't wait to

Douglas Burdett show them all the beauty they possess inside. So there you are. I'm sorry, you have a very respectable audience. And here I am just cutting up. Sorry.

Peter Sumpton He's fine. He's, you know, it's like you say it's, it's way past 10am. So I'm pretty sure.

Anyway, okay,

let's let's, let's get to it, then with the time that we have left,

Douglas Burdett let's offer some value. Yeah, well,

Peter Sumpton why the hell no, no, I'm enjoying myself. So that's all that matters. Let's, let's, let's face it.

Douglas Burdett So

Peter Sumpton take us through some of the the main themes that you've seen, or the main takeaways that you've got from some of the books that you've read this year, then?

Douglas Burdett Well,

the, what I did was once the pandemic started, I changed up some of the books or looked at for particular books, I knew they were going to be really helpful right at that time. So there have been books about virtual selling, that was Episode 300. By Jeb blunt, fantastic book. There was a book called Can you hear me communications in a communicating in a virtual world, which was actually written two years ago. But once the pandemic happened, the author was on everyone's list. And that was a very interesting book. And there was a book by Rohit Bhargava about virtual work, which was very helpful. Let me see, I'm sorry, I don't wanna do injustice to his. It was called. I've got him here. The memory goes first, Peter. Let's see it was called virtual meetings. I'm sorry. It was called virtual meetings. terrific book. And then there was another book by David meerman. Scott called standout virtual events. So there were I was just trying to adjust it. The content two things that I wanted to learn more about and read about, and I know that the audience was was wrestling with. So those were some of the things that we you know, they were, I guess you could say that was what was unique about this year's books, is that that thread

Peter Sumpton and the virtual events conversation you had with David was interesting because I do a lot of a lot of workshops and a lot of online workshops and utilise a lot of tools that he was Talking about, but some of them, it's just a case of exploring whatever...