Mastering digital etiquette across generations and Performance Max: Marketer's dream or data dilemma?

That conversation is going to be led by our digital marketing coordinator , freya Wilcox . After that , we are jumping into Performance Max with the Brew Digital Paid Media Managers . Nasha Naseira will be leading a conversation around whether Performance Max is actually any good .

It is nearing the end of May already , and for me that means that I will soon be going on paternity leave , so you can expect from our episodes in June and July that you'll have a new host . Hopefully they won't outshine me and I'll be back in August , but we'll have to wait and see . For now , though , let's get on with the podcast .

So recently , the Adaptivist group have published their digital etiquette report , in which they surveyed 4,000 knowledge workers across the UK , us , canada , australia and Germany to better understand the pain points and untapped potential in intergenerational enterprises in an attempt to learn how to cater to the modern workplace challenges .

Here discussing this report with me today is the lovely Mark Bundle , our senior email manager and , potentially more importantly , my manager and our wonderful account manager , kieran O'Neill . I think people of all generations might have something to say about this report . It's open to the public , so if you're interested , go have a look . We can link it below .

Personally , I think it has some really great points and some less sound points , but I'm interested in both your overall thoughts and opinions . So let's start with Kieran .

So you just go yeah , this is going to be misinterpretation and and in context and tone of voice and stuff , you then establish respect because you understand that that's going to happen . You build a code around that . You've got to be flexible , avoid stereotyping to the person or about the person as well . Understand that you want to learn from each other .

In some cases , you can tailor your communication style as well . All of those things will help you stop misinterpreting tone and context pretty early on in the report .

This often leads to me sending large amounts of smiley faces to people so they understand . I'm not angry or upset , especially if I'm correcting people . So if you've ever had an email review from me , you'll see what I mean .

But I'm interested to see your opinion here mark as well , on tackling tone and context , especially when it comes to remote work yeah , I think what kieran said about tailoring is probably the key .

But yes , if I'm communicating with people my age and under , I will generally try and cut across the tone or mark the tone with an emoji .

So if I'm putting a joy laughing , I'm putting a smile , I'm putting a little purple devil , to say kind of a bit cheesy and a bit naughty , whereas if I'm talking to people that are probably more senior to me , chances are I might not even be doing it by a like a slack or a text or something .

I might pick up the phone , I might do a face-to-face zoom call because it's much more appropriate . They're going to be . They're not going to have the same issues with taking time and context from a text that they will do from a face-to-face conversation .

So I think tailoring who you're talking to , or telling you how you're talking to who you're talking to , is quite important . It's going to recognize how you're talking to people how they need to be spoken to no , definitely .

Email and choosing your platform is definitely a very good idea , depending on who you're speaking to . This report also looks into how remote work and hybrid work slash flexible scheduling opportunities affect each generation .

Considering different preferences and obligations amongst each age group , do you think there's a way that businesses can support their employees more , especially the ones who may struggle to work from home , for instance , or adapt to hybrid work using software such as slack , etc .

Now , gen z have less dependence than millennials and gen x , which changes , uh , potentially how they they look at work-life balance and how they look at remote working and so on . But there isn't really a massive difference between each generation because there's benefits for everyone there .

To just understand what those benefits mean to each individual generation , to ensure that they're comfortable in the office and at home and just in the workforce in general , they're being catered to .

It saves them money , keeps everyone's blood pressure a bit lower .

Now they work flex point , which is run by a former colleague , and they work on the basis of the hybrid or hybrid working . Remote working isn't kind of the only thing that you need to take into account for stuff like this . So to make sure you're a properly inclusive workplace , that is , across generations , across genders , etc .

There's other things to consider as well . So it might be that for Gen Z , for example , that working hours are more important .

I've been reflecting on that , because you want to knock out a game routine and then first thing in the morning , and so you want to start at 10 , um , whereas remote working for parents might be brilliant for the millennials and , uh , the exes , so that they can stay home and they can kind of have someone in the house loosely supervising children while they work .

So , yeah , there's there's different escorts of different benefits for different generations , I think , and it's just being able to support everyone how they're doing their thing , being able to come on things like Slack and being able to have Zoom calls brilliant . It creates some communication .

But I think actually having physical offices as well is still really important . Or if you're a smaller company , having a shared workspace that you use that you can go into . So if people do want to meet up , they do want to kind of have those walk , all the moments , as they're called .

That's really beneficial as well , because some people still want and still need that and , looking back to our last podcast where we talked about mental health , for me it's yeah , I think you really benefit as well . If you have to , if you need those social moments , you need that connection to still be able to have it no 100 , I agree .

And I can definitely see the value of having an office or a location that you can go to and meet in person , because zoom and slack is great , but in person is just another level of depth and , leading on from your point on mental health , some of the stereotypes that are flagged in this report can potentially be quite harmful .

These stereotypes of things such as Gen Z being depicted as lazy as well as being easily distracted Easily distracted also . This stereotype also stretches to millennials . Do you think this is for any specific reason and is there a way that millennials Gen Z can help fight this and break the stereotype a little bit ?

We don't expect to commit to one company for 20 years and crack on with this career growth and progression and jumping around . But if you are , as an older person , taking on this research and doing this research , you're seeing these people spending more time on the screen , more time away from their desk doing other things and going .

Well , that's lazy , it's not , it's just different . I think it's making sure that we try and take those research biases out , which is obviously an incredibly difficult thing to do .

But yeah , the stereotypes are stereotypes and yeah , okay , there's probably a grounding for some of it , but a lot of it just depends on what lens you look at it through have you got any thoughts , kieran ?

Obviously , with social media as well , being what we look at and read almost every day , those lazy stereotypes used to punch down on all of us are very prominent Gen Z are lazy , millennials are disorganized , gen x are bossy and boomers are tech illiterate . It's nonsense , I think .

One suggestion I have for gen z to help fight the stereotype which , by the way , millennials we had it , uh , when we entered the office as well . It's just silly , but open a line of communication with your older workers and also communicate with your line manager about it . I hear this quite a bit , that Gen Z have been set up to fail .

So if you feel unsupported , let people know . Make sure your employer is aware you want a roadmap to promotion . Let them know you're afraid of failure or you're unsure of soft skills that you see other people having , like phone etiquette and things like that , because you may have not been taught it , because , as you say , you have only ever worked remotely .

It's been a wild experience being millennial , where you get brought into something which does feel very traditional , then kind of having a bit of ownership over it and then all of a sudden you're just working remotely . But I'm really enjoying this kind of hybrid thing right now . That we're that we're doing .

I just hope that it does work for everyone , especially gen z you both have some very , very good points .

I spent in my uni room locked down during COVID , so people need to go easy on Gen Z for a little bit . Anyway , anyway , my final question , and a bit of a fun one , a bizarre fact that has come out of this report is that 50% of workers feel annoyed when their younger colleagues don't have a pen .

I know it doesn't really apply to us because we work from home the majority of the time , but quick fire , yes , or in an office situation with someone not having a pen , annoy you , mark .

So today we're delving into a topic that's been making waves since Google rolled out this feature back in 2021 , and it continues to dominate discussions even now , in 2024 . If you guessed performance max , you're absolutely right , and if you're not familiar , you're in for a definite treat .

Joining me are two brilliant , talented colleagues of mine , michele and Ross , who are the paid media managers here in Brew Digital . Now , for our dear listeners who don't know , picture them as the Batman and Robin of our digital teen . Who is Batman , who is Robin ? That's up for a debate in another episode .

These two are like fire and ice when it comes to their opinions . Michele brings the heat while Ross keeps his cool , and it's always a fun time hearing the banter . That being said , personally , I'm very excited to hear what they have to say about Performance Max said . Personally , I'm very excited to hear what they have to say about Performance Max .

To kick things off , I'm sure for those out there who haven't tried experimenting yet with Performance Max or P-Max . They would want to know does it actually take performance to the max ? Ross over to you for the first question .

It essentially means you're handing over the keys to your entire operation to Google and letting it run wild , and anyone that's got a run automation on Google could know it likes to take the Michael sometimes , so it needs to be monitored .

It can lead to a huge amount of wastage for advertisers and a lot of people are blissfully unaware because the lack of reporting capabilities . So there are ways around these , these , these lack of capabilities with with scripts , but your average joe running a pmax campaign isn't going to have this visibility .

For me personally , 95 of my experience with pmax has come with large ecomcom clients . Well , we've got kind of mountains of data and search volumes to feed the algorithms and we have seen some pretty good results .

But on the other side of that coin we've got your small service companies with relatively low budgets where I've definitely seen a struggle to kind of drive , the same level of performance .

Now , the way I try to explain clients how PMAX works is like a sports car one of the fastest that you can imagine . If you put them on a circuit , it will reach the highest performances . Put the same car on a country road you won't go anywhere . So performance max is the same .

If you pave the way and prepare everything around it , it will always perform well . If you want to use it and you don't give it all the necessities that it requires , it won't take it to the max , it will just waste your money .

So the general sentiment that I see going on , and here's the statement don't use PMX for lead gen or non-e-commerce campaigns . Naomi Kelly , I'm curious to hear your take on this . Do you agree and , most importantly , why ?

You can , if you have to choose , prioritize it for lead gen , just because the journey to a conversion is somehow different , where , if a standard e-commerce purchase just follow a straight necessity , a lead gen may require a longer journey . The algorithm of performance marks will understand better the journey , in my opinion .

But when we talk about lead generation , the main problem we have is kind of lead quality , and this can be so drastically different from one lead to the next , and google can't necessarily distinguish between high quality and poor quality leads , which again presents a problem from an optimization standpoint .

How can you ensure that your lead quality is there , moving forwards if you don't have that visibility ?

One optimization we can do is to integrate customer relationship management tools CRM , so we can import offline conversion data , whether it's Salesforce , pipedrive or , in this case , hubspot , successfully linking this to Google Ads , which means we can enrich the campaigns with data and help Google understand lead conversion quality .

So , yeah , it's all about kind of making sure your audience signals are on point , so to speak .

When google first unveiled Performance Max , the idea was to cater to those businesses or individuals who didn't have the necessary skills or expertise to navigate the platform fully . Well , this marketer has stirred up the pot with the statement Performance Max is perfect for people who don't have the time or knowledge to optimize their campaigns .

I think the main idea that people have is that you don't need an agency to run PMAX , but , that being said , it's definitely not a set and forget campaign , which I think is the mistake that a lot of people make .

You still have to optimize PMAX campaigns , as Michele mentioned in the last segment , to eke the best performance , and I would argue that PMAX has made things even harder to optimize with the lack of variables . Google actually lists .

One of the benefits of PMAX is transparent insights , but with almost any other campaign format , you can quickly identify areas that can be optimized Keyword scheduling , audiences whereas PMAX just doesn't give you this freedom . When PMAX first launched I just wanted to mention as well you can even add negatives .

I remember flagging this to support and they just said yeah , yeah , there's nothing we can do , sorry . So that used to be the general sentiment , so I would adjust Mr Patel's statement to PMAX is perfect for people whose mantra is ignorance is bliss , where they're not concerned with their campaign performance . I thought we said not to names .

If these products don't work , they will get changed . I'm talking about a bit old marketers now , if you remember smart shopping campaigns . So they came as the evolution and the solution of bringing shopping campaign to a next level . We tried it for a couple of years . They didn't work .

So that's when Google decided to evolve them into performance max and mix them with display discovery video and just put all together . Now , if this campaign type wasn't really working , after three years , google would already have released a different campaign type working . After three years , google would already have released a different campaign type .

So if they are not working , it's probably because we don't fully prepare the way they are easier to use . No , I think to set up performance match campaign is one of the most difficult things to do because of all the requirements . Ross mentioned some of them .

There's plenty of elements that you need to have ready , whether it's lead generation only or e-commerce , where you need to link all your data feed for shopping products , etc . So I would not say that Performance Max is a passpartout that you can use when you don't know what to do .

Okay , so , now that we've unpacked PMX a bit , thank you both for sharing your insights . So let's dive a little deeper . This question is especially helpful for our dear listeners who are interested in launching their first PMAX campaign . When is the best case to use Performance Max and when to avoid it ?

You need to understand the budget for your campaign . You need to decide before going live if you want to optimize per conversion value or conversion volume . This makes a massive difference in the algorithm . You need to know at the beginning what you're selling . Am I selling products or I want to convert leads ?

Those are fundamental questions that you know you have to answer before starting . If we want to go in a bit more specialized way , the concept modes that Ross mentioned before especially if you are targeting in Europe and UK , make sure all your conversion tracking are properly set up and you need to understand the difference in your marketing objective .

The conversion goal and conversion action are two different moments in the journey of your client or potential lead , so you need to understand how those affect your final campaign . This one , I'll keep it for last , but it's really the most important one . Give it time . Even if it's AI driven , it needs time to learn .

Don't put it live and post it after two days . If you don't see results . It may need even two or three weeks . Be upfront immediately if you're setting up for a client and then audiences . We still see clients with accounts where the audiences are not fully set up .

So you can't pretend a campaign like this works well if you just target 7,000 million of people with different interests Over to you . Ross .

This is not necessarily the best practice and I think if you pause search campaigns , for instance , you can end up jeopardizing campaign reach and performance , because PMAX does not use keywords the same way that search does or any format in that scene . So it's important to recognize the distinction between pmax and other campaigns .

It's not all things to all men can pay . We've touched on it previously . But obviously one common mistake is the kind of set forget attitude . Um , you do have to make adjustments . What little freedom you do get ?

To wrap up our discussion and I believe this question will benefit both newcomers and seasoned marketers alike hear your best quick tips on how to structure performance max campaigns , whether it's about creative approach , bidding strategies , budget optimization , frequency . Maybe your top four three to four best quick tips first tip categorize .

It takes time to write 15 headlines and four descriptions , as Google requires , but you will have results on those and after two or three weeks you should consider to refresh all those elements . So don't launch the campaign and then , when Black Friday approach , reminds oh yeah , maybe I should change something . Don't tell Google .

I told you , but try to avoid to use their suggestions , the recommendation that at this moment , up to the day , google is doing on automated headlines . They are very dangerous . Still , well , not very dangerous . They're actually stupid . They are not able to understand really what you need . So keep your human people writing your ads . Don't trust the ai .

Anything else .

They'll set a goal , say , to achieve an 800% ROAS , when they've never achieved anything like this in the past . And what this means . If you're kind of setting a target ROAS too high or a CPA target too low , all you're doing is limiting the discovery section of the campaign .

It just means you'll be no longer discovering new audiences because Google's just desperately trying to achieve this unrealistic target . One thing to keep in mind is to stop optimizing every week . I think McKinley mentioned it in the last segment .

Google's cadence for learning phase is supposedly six weeks at least that's what they said in the latest update and every time you make a major change to a campaign , this resets , so you're just kind of pushing it back into learning phase every time . You do have to give it time to get the best results that is all we have time for today .

And finally , thank you to the Brew Digital team for their research and input into today's session . I've been Hayden . These are the markets of the universe . Bye .