It's Maria's MUDs and Stuff.
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Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me today is Jim Kessler, who is the director of Instructions and Training at the Seeing Eye in Marstown, New Jersey. So thank you so much, Jim. I know I've been such a big fan of the Seeing I for so many years, and I'm just so happy that you and I ran into each other late last year and now I can talk to you about the organization. So thank you.
Yeah, happy to be here. Thank you so much.
Yeah, So I and I didn't realize it because I feel like I grew up knowing about the Seeing Eye and I just I was looking on your website. You've been around since nineteen twenty nine. Last year was the ninety fifth anniversary. That's incredible.
Yeah. We were the first school, first school in the world. Uh huh, had over eighteen thousand, five hundred partnerships.
Wow.
Since we were created in nineteen twenty nine. Approximately, we have about fifteen hundred active students. And what I mean by active students are individuals who are using names Seeing on our dogs currently and we serve We served the entire North America, so the United States and Canada. So we have students who come and are trained here on our property in Morristown, New Jersey.
Right right, I mean that's incredible. How did it all begin way back when in nineteen twenty nine?
Oh, it started back in nineteen twenty nine with the two big names that are familiar with our history and are founding are both Morris Frank and Dorothy Harrison Eustace. Dorothy was a She was from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She was very in tune and loved the German shepherd as breed. Morris Frank travels to they They, Switzerland and is trained
with the first seeing eye dog named named Buddy. The original name was Kiss, and he decided he didn't want to have a dog named Kiss, so he changed dogs Buddy, and all his dogs and all his dogs after that were named Buddy. Oh wow, okay, yeah. Both Morris Frank and Dorothy they you know, what they did pretty much
started the entire guide dog movement worldwide. And the efforts that they put in are what are what are graduates are a direct result of what our graduates get today by coming to the C and I getting pared getting matched to one of our dogs.
Sure, so okay, So tell me what is a day in the life for you Jim Kestler Like, how does your day start? What is what does it entail for you? With the Seeing Eye dog.
I started my career here twenty four years ago. I started as an as an apprentice, or there's when you become and when you become an instructor, you start you have a three year apprenticeship that you learn. It's all on the job training. Like I came from a completely different background. Oh, I used to work in New York City. Were used to work in New York City. I had no dog training experience, yeah, pet dogs and I was
growing up. I had no dog training experience. So you learn everything here on the job, everything about dogs, training, working with students. So, and my job now as director of the department is you know, we have twenty five instructors.
Wow.
That and we have five teams, five teams of five instructors. And these instructors are all at different stages. So it takes four months to train one of our dogs to become a guide being matched with somebody, so in they're reaching different stages of the train. They're in the first month of training, second month, third month, and fourth month
of training. And people are surprised when I say, okay, it takes People ask, oh, I want to take the train of dog a year, and I said, oh, it takes four months, and people are people are surprised at that that it takes such a short period of time because you know, these dogs have a very difficult job.
Sure, that's a big job, big responsibility.
Yeah, I think I think I think collectively, uh, if you take all the jobs a dog can have, I think this is the most difficult job the doll can have, just be responsibility. Sure, and the pressure that these dogs, of course feel.
Sure I get that.
So yeah, so and I kind of not a kind of I did. I got off the question that you initially asked.
Oh no, it's okay. Yeah, yeah, no, this is great. This is great because you're really giving us a slice into the life of what goes on for you as a trainer, but also what goes into making a dog into a seeing eye dog, which you know is a big responsibility for the dog because basically it's guiding and safe being someone's life. You know, there's a lot of decisions that that dog has to make so I get it.
Yeah, yeah, and you know we have you know, as an organization, our success rate is close it's in sixty percent. So it's and that's uh, that's that's good for uh standard, you know, industry wide. Sure, you know, not every dog can not every dog is cut out to do this.
The sixty Yeah, okay.
We breed all our own dogs here. We have you know, we have a breeding facility and we have a we have a you know, veterinary staff. We have full time geneticists on staff.
Oh wow, Okay.
People ask, you know, yeah, people ask why do you why do you breathe your own dogs? And it's it's for we have we're able to control, We're able to control comperment. Yeah, so it's it's a you know, before I got into this line of work, Marie, I was you know, I didn't I had no idea what was involved in it. You know, there's a there's a lot
that goes into it. I mean, so you have you have a dog, a dog is trained to be a guide and somebody who someone who's blind, and there's certain things you have to think about, Yeah, think about when you're going into matching person. Okay, and the two things that are really most important to us or pace and pull. Me mean, how fast does the individual want to walk and how much pole do they want to feel on hardess harness. So, and what I mean by the harness
is it's what dogs wear and it's the information. It's communication device between dog and handler. Correct, get to feel lateral moves, left, lateral moves to the right, speed up, slow down, they're able to feel that. So in our line of work, pace and pull are two most important things. And then you look at the lifestyle of the individual and what they do on a daily basis, and you make a match based on this these certain characteristics of dog in person to get the best match that you
can correct every time. Now, we're not you know, we make mistakes, but you know that's the it happens.
It happens, of course, but that's that's human nature and that's just life. I mean, yeah, yeah, it can't be one accurate all the time because you're not you're not a fortune teller, you know, who's to know?
No, not exactly exactly. Yeah, So its how the process works. And I'll just go to a little more detail about So we every every month of the Seeing Eye. We have what we call a class and what and what that basically means is we have students from all over North America come to the Seeing Eye to be trained with a Seeing Eye dog. So these students can either be individuals who've had dogs before they're coming back to
get a successor dogs. So there are returning students. Then we have students that have never had a dog before. So they come here campus and if they're returning students, they spend eighteen days. If they're a new student, they spend twenty five days. So and they're trained, so they live here on campus, they have their own room. We are able to really start the foundation build the relationship
between the dog and the person. It's you know, is everything perfect after a month, No, but you you've laid the groundwork. So they come here to campus and they spend this time here and really it's it's a busy day for them. They're up at five thirty in the morning and they're you know, taking care of the dog,
taking the dog out, feeding the dog. They have trips that they have to do with their instructor in the morning, a trip in the afternoon, and throughout the entire process they're learning things that are pertinent to guide you know, guide dog mobility. Sure, and it's a it's a great thing to watch. I've been doing this for twenty four years and it never gets never gets tiring to me.
To you know, see students who you know, they come in on the first day, they're just meeting their dog, and then they leave after eighteen or twenty five days, and you see the relationship that's built between the dog and the person, right, and it's just it's great. I'm sure it's great to watch.
It has to be heartwarming for you too, because you're part of that process.
Oh no, agreed, Yeah, yeah, it's great.
I'm sure. I know from you know, talking to organizations that supply service dogs to veterans with PTSD, and I feel it's it's probably the same exact thing for someone who doesn't have their sight that these dogs give them their life and give you know, the dog gives its life, but it makes people who do things that they would be limited to do, and so they get to live their life every day because of the dog, which is like phenomenal.
Yea, yeah, I mean I trained a gentleman and he and I've known them. I known for a long time, and he said to me, wasn't for my seeing eye dog, I would not have I would not be the person I am today. Sure, and it's it's great.
Yeah, and that must you know, it gives me a chill to hear it. Just but I can imagine how it must make you feel being so involved in that whole process. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
It's great.
Yeah. So for someone who's listening and you know, thinking about needing a seeing eye dog, how would how would the process how would they start the process with the seeing eye.
Yeah, so they would have to they fill out an application to you know, to apply, and there's you know, the application, and there's certain requirements that we require along with the application, and you know, one thing that's required is each of our each of our students have to have orientation of mobility. And what orientation mobility is is
it's using a way using a king. So I mean you can either you can either use a dog or you can use a kne and there's differences between both, but you have to have those orientational mobility skills because they're applicable to your when you when you're using a same eye dog. So you fill out, you fill out the application and you know, just say, you fill out the application and you get accepted. Part of the process is we have an instructor come to their home environment
and they do it in person interview. So you may ask, okay, what do you do with the in person interview? So as an instructor, it gives us the opportunity to see where the individual lives, what their lifestyle is like. But even more importantly, it gives us an opportunity to do a Juno walk. The instructor pretends to be a dog, meaning they take a harness and they walk with the individual to get one how much pole they want to feel in the harness? And two what speed they want
to walk? Like I mentioned earlier, pay and pull the important criteria. Yeah, because the last thing we want to do is an organization, is give the dog that's too fast or slow or shows too little or pulls too much. Of course, so we do general walk and that also gives us the opportunity to see how the individual you know, follows a lot like how do they follow lateral moves? Do they follow lateral moves? The lateral moves, the left lateral moves to light, how do they do how they
do when they're following the harness. So it's important criteria that we as an instructor gauge from this junal walk. So we go and we assess them in their home environment. Stay okay, We get all the information we need from it, and then when they're accepted into when they get accepted, that's when the process begins when we start looking for
a match for them. So each month, like I said, a group of students from North America come to campus, comes to Morristown, New Jersey, and they're trained with their dog, and we have we have a class every month of the year. So January through December we have a class on campus. And then another thing I failed to mention is that you know we are we're a nonprofit organization. Yeah, we we don't rely on any funding from you know, the government, nor do we've any funding from the state.
It's all it's all donations funding.
It's all donations. And the cost of a cost of a Seeing Eye dog is approximately from costs to create each partnership is seventy five thousand dollars.
Yeah, yeah, I figured that. Yeah, that's that's that's a lot.
Yeah, there's a lot of money. Yeah. And since nineteen thirty three and we haven't changed this. The cost the cost for a cost for one of our students is one hundred and fifty dollars for the first time and fifty dollars for you turning student. Amazing, and since and since nineteen forty one, we charge one dollar for veterans. Wow, and that hasn't changed. That hasn't changed.
Since nineteen forty one. That's a long time. Yeah, that's a long time.
Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's the symbol for us. It's it's they they have they have some ownership in this. They they you know, they you know, paid this fee and it's its ownership then. And that's one thing too about the Seeing Eye is when our graduates graduate and leave our students, they have full ownership of the dog, right, So it's their dog. So we as an organization, you know, that's we don't we don't retain ownership of the dog once you'll graduate that you still all the requirements, right,
they have full ownership of the dog. And I failed to mention too pres the dogs, the breeds that we use are Labradors, Golden Retriever and German shepherds, and we cross a lab in Golden to get a cross breed, right, But those are those are the three predomintered breeds that we use.
I was gonna say, is there a reason, but it's it just seems like those are the working dogs that seem that that can handle it, right.
And somebody asked me, like somebody asked me, is like, why don't you use a husky? You know, you know, it's it's the three breeds that we use, the lab Golden and the shepherds. They they're the breeds that are you know, we feel, you know, that's best success.
Yeah, and that's what you would go by. Yeah, I mean why would you. It's like if you have a product that works, right, if you were a manufacturer of a product, why would you change up your product if it works well and it works for people, right, So you know it makes sense. No, it makes sense. And I know that, you know, I mean, I do know this obviously. And I saw it also on your website that people can volunteer to raise the puppies. Is that correct?
Yeah? Yeah, you're onred correct, and the puppy raisers are They're a huge, huge part of our mission at the Seeing Eye. So approximately five hundred puppies are born each year at the Seeing Eye. And what happens is that these puppies are born and you know, eight weeks of age, these volunt these families, these puppy raising families volunteer their services and their time, energy love to raise these puppies
and they get them. They get the dogs about eight weeks of age and then they come back to the Seeing Eye and they're approximately say thirteen fourteen. These puppy is they put all the hard work in their house, breaking the dogs, the teaching the dog basic deedas and they're also they're also getting these dogs out into socializing them, getting them out into the real world to see how
they react to certain things. And what happens is in different geographic area and geographic areas there is a club. So you belong to a club of puppy raisers. Guys meet weekly or you know every other week. And then they do outings where they go to see they go to New York City. And this is all important information for us because these families will fill out a report for their puppies saying and as when they come back
to going to instruction. In the training instructors look at these reports and they get notes from these families showing certain things that the dog reacted to and just important, very important information for us when we go into the training of the dogs. And I used to say, if it wasn't for the puppy raisers, our ability to carry
our mission would be very difficult. It would pretty much be impossible because the families the selfless dedication to the organization by raising these puppies, right, and then at you know, thirteen fourteen months, we're saying, okay, thanks, we're going to take the dog back. But what a lot of these families do is they repeat razors. So they raise a dog and then the raise.
Another one one. Yeah, now, that's amazing, you need them. That's that's the whole start. So of course that makes sense. And I'm sorry because I'm not sure I heard it on my end, right, maybe not on yours. But when you said that they go from eight weeks and then they bring them back to you, what was the time period on that, because on my end to cut out.
Oh, it was approximately thirteen to fourteen months of age.
They come out Oh okay, wow, so they have Yeah, so they have that puppy for like almost a year. There's a lot of stuff they could do. Yeah, that's pretty incredible.
Yeah, our family, my family, we've raised a puppy and it was it was a great experience for my kids. I'm sure still you know, they still talk about it. Yeah, and you know, you're doing something, you're doing something for the greater good by of course you raising this dog that in turn will eventually become a same I dog, right, And I.
Would think that knowing that you're doing such a good deed is bigger than oh no, I'm sad because we have to give the dog back, right, But the bigger the bigger picture.
Yeah, you know, but you're right, you're right. I mean there's still a lot of you know. What happens is so the the dog comes back and goes through it's four month of train four months of training, and then at the end of like probably about close to the end of the end of the fourth month, if the dog made it, If the dog made it, and it's going to be matched or yeah, it's going to be potentially matched. The family comes in. The family comes and
observes the dog working with the instructors. They get they get the Yeah, they get the the end result, which is great, and there's oh yeah, there's tears chick of.
Course, but of course because they're but they're part of the process. It's like they get they get to see the child graduate, which is pretty cool.
Oh yeah, yeah, and then you know, and the puppy raisers is there's there's there's a shortage and it's it's worldwide shortage of puppy raisers. And it seemed ever since COVID, ever since COVID, really okay, decline and puppy raisers, and it's huge. It's it's a huge undertaking for some family, right right. The reward of course, of course.
Well, I think for anyone who's listening and is in the area, they can go to seeingi dot org and it's right there on your website if they'd like to be a puppy raiser. So I think, uh, because I know people who are listening right now, I know that they love dogs and puppies and doing good for the world. So that would be really cool if we got you some more razors. So SEEINGI dot org. So I I have to talk to you about this because I know it bothers me whenever I see someone with it, and
I'm sure it makes you crazier. You know that anyone, right can go online and pay like whatever money it is to get a vest for their dog. So this way they can say, oh, this is my therapy dog, so they can take a dog on a plane or a restaurant. And that must make you as angry as it makes me. Correct.
Yeah, yes, it's so wrong.
It's yeah, no, it's just so wrong. Yeah, I know, I know.
You know, our graduates, they you know, they have to you know, certain things. It's you know, to go on a plane, they have to fill out of course paperworkane, right, and why you know, like why why why should they have to fill out the paperwork?
Right?
You know, for the Department of transmiss they fill out a form. And you talk about like even like getting into like the ride share like lift and Uber, the denials, Like what happens. What's happening is, you know, they'll they'll pull up, they'll see somebody has a seeing eye dog and they just they just pull away and they deny them because it's having a dog, and it's it's a very terrible, big point of frustration, big point of frustration,
and it's it's so unfortunate that it's happening. But we're making inroads, Like we have a department here, we're trying to make inroads in that to see, you know, we can fix that problem. Yeah.
There, I hope so, because it's very frustrating for me, especially when you hear, you know, you hear it on like news or something that they're or whatever service animal on an airplane bit someone and it's like right there, the first thing that goes off in my head is like, yeah, because it wasn't a service dog, you know.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, So well.
To make it difficult for people, it makes it difficult for people like our graduates who have legitimate.
Exactly know, for the people who really need the dog. Yes, yes, but I'm glad that you're making inroads on that because that's good because sometimes people can be very selfish and self centered, and I'm glad you're you're making inroads on them. That's good. That's a very good thing. So, Jim, this is really so fascinating and so wonderful for all the things that you do, and and like you said, you guys you survive on donations. So for anyone who's listening, right,
No donation is ever too small or too large. Correct. Yeah, So I mean go to SEEINGIY dot org. I love the fact that on your website it says if you can, you can plan an event that will benefit Seeing I, which is great too, like a fundraiser and your school or you know, in your town. So, uh, I just I'm fascinated by everything. I love that you know you had the time because I know how your schedule is and you know you're raising you're raising these dogs and
training them and it's it's just incredible. Thank you for taking the time out to talk about the Seeing.
Eye My pleasure. It's always something easy to talk about. Uh, you know, something that you know I've been doing for so long, and it's I find it easy to talk about, and it's I'm very fortunate to work at this organization and you know, just a leader with a couple just couple of things. So you know, Seeing Eye is like we're a trademark. Like not every dog out there is a Seeing Eye dog. Although people in the public they see a guide dog and they're like, oh, that's the
Seeing I dog. It's right, it's not. It's similar to like when people say, oh, go make a xerox or give me are exactly.
I was just going to say that about Kleenex. That's so funny and it's a tissue, but yeah, you're right, that's branding, right.
Yeah. And these these are the only the only dogs from our program can be holed scene our dog right. So and also, and for the people who are listening, I say, you know, if you're if you ever encounter one of our graduates or anybody working with a guide dog, you know, please don't go up and distract the dog.
Oh my goodness, that's right.
These dogs, these dogs are have a tough job and they need to stay focused on. Of course, I know it's easy to all these dogs are so cute you want to go pet unders.
Yeah, but they're working.
It's you know, it's just yeah, they're working dogs.
They're working.
Yeah.
I'm glad you brought that up because I completely forgot about that. But you're absolutely right. That's such a good point because it would be the same as if you're you see a construction guy raising a forklift, you wouldn't go over to him and say, hey, can I talk to you a second? Because he's working. These dogs are working, they're not there for you to pet. Go to a shelter and pet those dogs. Yeah, you're one thousand percent on that one. I'm glad you brought that up. That's
a really really good point. Well, Jim Cassler, thank you so much. I hope you continue to keep working all right. I don't think you have any plans to retire, right because you love what you do and that they always say to do that, right, love what you do and do what you love. And it sounds like that's what your your career has been, which is very very cool. Uh And and I thank you so For those who want to help out a donation, learn more, just go to SEEINGI dot org. Jim, thank you so much
My pleasure, Thank you so much,