It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea. On iHeartRadio, Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me is Wendy Lyon's Sunshine, who has this wonderful book, Tender Pause, how science based parenting can transform our relationship with dogs. So Wendy, I mean, I really I love this book. It's relatable and basically you took how a parenting of humans and made it apply to dogs. So tell me how did that first begin for you?
Yeah, it's an interesting journey. I'm sure what happened was my husband and I had adopted a little rescue puppy and things seemed to be going fine until she got healthy. We cured her of all the little problems she had when we got her from the shelter, and next thing you know, we had a live wire on our hand, and I just I didn't know which way was up. It was just chaos in the house, and I was getting very frustrated, and I was afraid that I was
not at all qualified to deal with this oldlogan. I realized that I had turned into a struggling parent, very much like the people that my colleagues had helped and that kind of gave me an idea. I had just helped write a book for struggling parents, and I thought, you know, maybe there's something in here that will help me because I am at my wits end, and I
went in with you know, fresh eyes. I started replacing the world word child with puppy when I would read through the book, just thinking, you know, maybe this will spark something. And sure enough, it really did. It Really it helped give me compassion and more understanding, and it inspired me to use more patience, more compassion, and combine both caring and nurturing with limits setting and gentle guidance and all the things that really expert parents do on
a day to day basis. And it was this aha moment and next thing, you know, I looked into the science and sure enough, there was a lot of research on both sides that supported this. So it was quite quite exciting to discover that's something so many people do instinctively is really on the right track.
Right right, I mean basically, it's like positive reinforcement that you do with children.
Yes, that's one big part of it for sure, right yeah, yep, yeah, to help them say yeah, good job, and you know, thank you for doing that. That's great, right, you know, motivates them and keeps people cooperative and you know, helps them, helps them really learn in a really encouraging way, correctly wonderful.
Yeah, I mean it, I guess to me, just because I just always have felt I don't know, I think a lot of people don't realize that. And that's why it's almost like your book Eureka of course, because you know, I mean, because I feel like a lot of times
people don't realize. I just remember from like having my very first dog, I don't even know how long ago, many many, many many years ago, and it was just I always remember someone saying, you know, you set them up for success, and I know you have that in your book as well.
So yeah, that's a lovely way to put it, right, Yeah, make sure the choices they have are going to be good choices and right.
Yeah, absolutely, And it's simple. I mean it's a simple thing like you wouldn't leave let me think, you wouldn't leave medication within a child's reach, So you shouldn't do the same thing for a dog or a cat either, because they could get into it as well. So it's almost you're setting it up for success like you would. I don't know. I just feel like it's so common sense to me, but I guess, you know, it's that old thing. The thing about common sense is most people
it's not that common or whatever. I think George Carlin said that, right, you know.
Well, yeah, the other thing that can complicate matters is perhaps what we grew up with. You know, sometimes the parenting we got might have been a little harsher, yes, and so we think that's the way to be, and we don't even realize that they're alternatives.
Right, right, No, you're absolutely right, And yeah, of course, because I mean, yeah, I always think when people were like, you know, growing up and you don't want your dad to take his belt off, Well, many of us grew up like that, right, Okay, I'll be good. And it's the same thing you see people, you know, hitting a dog or the newspaper or something. So you're right, it's absolutely it's so common. But it's absolutely the same the same principles, I would think, right, Yeah, was there anything
in all of your time like putting the book together? Well, first of all, how long did it take you to put the whole book together? I mean, you came up with the idea and walk me through. So then what happened.
It's been a long, long journey because at first I couldn't believe it. I thought, well, this is silly. How is it possible. You know, I have puppy training guides. Why is a parenting book helping me? I thought maybe it was just maybe, you know, maybe I was just imagining things. But I ended up helping write another parenting book and getting a new dog at the same time.
And this new dog had different problems, but sure enough, the parenting guidance really applied there too, I mean, pumple things like help them feel safe, you know, yeah, yeah. And the more I looked into it, the more I could see it. And I started looking at the research and talking to experts, and it was like, yeah, maybe it's it's common sense, but it's also because it's so obvious, we tend to pooh poo it, you know, we think we need special, special techniques and strategies. And and because
they're animals, you know, they don't respond, you know. Similarly, mistly, they're different. We know there, we know their dogs, but there, but in many ways they've evolved to be our companions and to be family members and so we can extend some of our insights uh with them in that way. But yeah, it's taken over ten years to pull all this together. I spoke to so many people. It was such such a fascinating experience.
I'm sure, yeah, yeah.
But the beauty is that it helps us understand ourselves and a little bit as well where we came from, and then we can make choices for the long term well being of the whole family, and just like we would for kids, and think of the dogs and their needs as individuals too. That's interesting, right, Kids have different aptitudes and talents exactly dogs.
No, it's true, and like every dog, just like every child, is different. And I think many people don't realize that, especially if they always go for a certain breed because they've read about characteristics of that breed. But then they'll get another dog of the same breed and don't understand why it's so different than their last one. Well, it's because it's a different dog's.
Right, right, There's some funny things. I had head up the dog one point and she just couldn't care less about tennis balls, I mean absolutely not, And I thought, how is that possible? As dogs love tennis balls, right, tennis balls, And here was one who like, if you threw a toward her, it would more likely hit her on the head than she would have.
Off. But that's just because he was right.
Yeah, so we had to stop trying. We just found something else. She liked it really did you know.
No, it's true, but it's so funny. It's so funny because someone who didn't have the common sense or or the knowledge that you do would be like, oh, this dog has to like tennis balls, and like, no, it doesn't. You know, it's an individual. So it's fascinating to me. And I love the fact in the fact that in the book you have relatable information throughout the book with you know, I guess you spoke to experts. How did you find those people for the book like that have the relatable information?
Yeah. I have been participating in communities relating to dogs and dog welfare and dog training, and I just, uh, you know, would I would see a conversation where somebody would raise an issue and I thought, wow, that is so on, you know, equivalent to what we do with kids. And so I would reach out to different, two different people in those circumstances where I'd say, you know, I love what you you did where you you you gave this particular puppy time to develop comfort in social situations,
for example, just as one example. Uh, and I actually had, Uh there's one case study in there which is just amazing. Uh, this woman who had a dog that they were talking about behavioral euthanasia, which is where you put them down
because it's just so difficult to deal with them. And uh, and of course she when when the doctor said that to her, she was horrified, started looking elsewhere, and when she finally put two or two together, she said, oh my god, I'm a therapist who works with children who are at risk, and how did I not see this all this time? And once once they started talking about thinking about traumatized kids or you know, dogs being relocated, rescues and different kinds of needs, it was like it
all fell together for her. And she says, of course, and she she shared her story and it was so inspiring, and I'm so grate grateful to these people for sharing, you know, sometimes their struggles that they might be embarrassed about, but then they came through the other end and everybody's happier for it.
So it's wonderful, right, And it's also it's something that many people go through, just you don't always realize it when you're going through it that you're not the only one in the whole wide world who's going through it. So I think that applies as.
Well, exactly absolutely, and.
I like to you that you have the different times there are reflections from the field. So again, those are people that you had reached out to or that you had known about and they gave you know from their perspective, is that how that worked?
Yes? Uh huh. These are people who are dog trainers or a veterinary you know, verdinary specialists or behavior specialists of different sorts. Because I just wanted to bring these things side by side and even include some passages from the parenting books where there where you could see how clearly the message they're giving fits for animals that are in our household as well.
Was there anything I mean, I'm sure there were many things, but is there anything like one thing in particular that really shocked you when you realized when you were like with your first puppy, that you rescued that applying something that you do with a child, that you are shocked that that actually worked. Is there any any one thing maybe that stands out or too many?
Well, that's been a compilation over but I'll tell you a couple of things that surprised me. I learned about. One is how vital movement is for brain health and for what we call emotional regulation and self regulation. In other words, to be a well adjusted individual, you need movement from very early in life, and kids need to move around a lot, and it actually has implications for your brain circuitry.
Wow.
And it can't develop fully and in a healthy manner if you don't get that early movement, because your body is sensing and learning and it's just quite extraordinary. So helping that the little ones have access to movement and not retraining them and restricting them for long periods is a real gift that we can give them. The other thing that surprised me was how often weird and troubling
dog behavior is related to pain. People sometimes think you can train certain things out of dogs, but if the behavior is because the dog's and pain, it's going to be difficult, right, It's not going to be effective. Everything from they might have a dental problem and so they might get a little bristly or snappish when you touch them, and not because they're you know, bad dogs, because they're hurting, right. I mean, you think about if we had a toothache, of course, feeling cuddly.
Right, No, of course, you know. And it's interesting that you say that. You just kind of gave me a chill, because it's something that I've thought about over the years. I have one of my rescues years ago, died of kidney failure at four years old. But he was one of those. He was like a ninety pound dog, like a boxer bulldog mix giant dog. Lovable, but he didn't like to walk. Like sometimes we would go out for a walk and then he would just stop and lay down.
And I never yeah, and I never you know, I kind of got him eventually he would walk, but every once in a while he would just PLoP down. And you know, when Carmine didn't want to walk, there was you couldn't pick up ninety pounds. You had to wait till he was ready, and then we'd go. And I remember talking to different behaviorists and trainers and they were like, I've never heard of that. That's so interesting, blah blah blah.
I mean, he got better as he was out of being a puppy, but then when he suddenly had kidney failure and died at four, and then it made me think, I wonder if that's connected, And now you're talking about it, and I bet it probably was, because it's rare when a dog doesn't want to walk.
Yes, I think you really picked up on something really essential. It's like sometimes there are dogs that don't want to play games, you know, out in the yard.
And right, it.
Turns out we've seen where they might have hip displaysure mm hmm. Makes it really painful for them. But if you if you're not looking for.
That correct, right, how would you know? Right?
How would you know? And as the kidney thing is really hidden? Because so what, I'm sorry for the loss of your dog.
Oh thanks, thank you? Yeah, very too short. Yeah, he was gonna I was gonna make him into a therapy dog because he was just such a big mush But you know what can you It's unfortunately, uh, they don't live as long as we do, and unfortunately they die suddenly just like people do. And it's and I'm not being flipping about it, I just feel, you know, what can you do? You know, live and learn and yeah,
and you'll learn. I mean I've learned from that and now talking to you, I was like, yeah, that probably was right. And again it goes full circle with your book of you know, just pay attention to all the different things that you would do, say with a child, or it applies to the dog as well, because they
do communicate. And I think that's the thing too, that many times people don't realize that their dog is communicating with them and other than barking, But there are so many different ways, like your book points out that you know, they are communicating with us, but we just have to be have our eyes and ears open to it. Right.
There's one example in the book that is kind of startling is that there was a dog that was humping all the time on her own the owner, and they couldn't figure out what was going on. It was driving the family crazy. Or it turned out she had you know, structural problems in her spine right, and she wasn't comfortable running around. And as soon as the pain was handled, and she was also not forced into those rough and rowdy situations, she calmed right down and was just a
pleasure and there was no more of that unwanted humping. So, like you say, just all the signs can be out there. We want to be alert and yeah and mindful, you know, as best as we can. Just they're trying to tell us something.
Correct, Like we just have to pay attention. It's just like how you have to pay attention. I mean, because you know, dogs are always like their children to me, you know, in the sense that they they you always have to pay attention like you would for a child and a toddler or a baby, because they can only communicate so much. Yeah. Yeah, so it's the same thing,
and your your book points that out so much. I mean, I think it's it's just such a wonderful book, and I just like the way it just the way you expressed everything, but how it's how you presented it. It's it's easy to read and easy to follow, which I think is very helpful for people.
Well, thank you. I'm delighted you feel that way.
No, absolutely, absolutely so. I know, like you said, it took you ten years and it's so chock ful as so many things. And I know you do books for children and everything else. But what is coming up next for you?
If there's anything, Yeah, there may be some more articles, you know, shorter pieces. Right now, I am contemplating a workbook related to the book, but I don't know we'll go there so but for the meantime, the articles are keeping me busy. But thank you, thank you for the encouragement I have to put my thinking.
Oh, you'll think about it, and I'm sure because I don't think you stay unbusy for long. So I'm sure you're going to think and do something. I'm sure because you've done so much. So for my listeners who would like to get this book, where's the best place that they can find Tender Pause?
Well, you can find it at any of your favorite booksellers. You can find it online at places like Amazon or Barnes and Noble or Simon and Schuster. It's also available on audiobook through Recorded books and Audible.
Well, thank you, Wendy Lyon Sunshine, Thank you so much, No, thank you for this great book, and thanks for all your knowledge and sharing it with so many of us, because, like I said before, it's common sense, but many people don't have it. It's not very common. So your book will be very helpful to getting people not only to raise well behaved dogs, but we'll have. I think your book will help people hold on to their dogs and
not give up on them. No, I think so. Yeah, it would be because I know, I mean, we all know people that give up on their dogs, like, oh it's too much, I have to give it up. No, don't read Wendy's book, and I think you'll be okay. So thank you so much for the book and your information, and well when you decide on your next thing, we'll talk again.
Thank you, Maria, it's been a pleasure speaking with you.
Thanks so much, Lader and the Spot, see you later. Arrigator