It's Maria's much and Stuff.
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Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me today is Marianne Leoni. She is an actress, a screenwriter and author and her Five Dog Epiphany book is here and I want to talk to her about it. So first of all, I'm thrilled and honored to be talking to you.
Oh same here, Maria. I have read your history and I love all of the work you do with rescuing animals.
Well, thanks so much. And your book.
Can I tell you I read it in a day. This I really did. I couldn't put it down. And I know some people have said that on the reviews in the back, but it was really true. It was just first of all, it is just such a loving tribute to your beautiful son Jesse, just so much.
It's just so perfect.
And then of course you threw and everything about the rescues and the rescue, but your book is so real, and I think and that's what made it so. I mean, I was laughing, I was crying.
It was just like a mix of emotions.
And I'm very happy to hear you say that, because you know, I think people are afraid to read books that have grief involved, and I want them to know that you will still have joy, you will still laugh, you will you know, I will always live with this loss. But what I wanted to talk about was how rescuing these animals, you know, how brought back a measure of joy that I thought was gone forever. And it is not, of.
Course no, but the whole process, and you explain that.
I mean, because everything went from so dark and gray, and then with the dogs, it's like a little bit of light came in and then more and but never losing the gray, because that's what that's what loss is to all of us and to and that we go through as humans.
And but the it was just it just really was very perfect.
Oh thank you. And you know, the first dog was not a rescue. I think I explained in the book. Our son was born ten weeks early and had a brain bleed on the third day and as a result developed cerebral palsy. He was spastic, quadriplegic, nonverbal, and brilliant, right, so every once in a while, I mean he couldn't speak, but it was muscular, not cognitive, So every once in
a while he could get a word out. And boy, when he was six years old and he sat on Santa's lap, it was his fondest dream and he took everything he had to say, dog.
I love that.
I turned to my husband and said, he's getting a dog, and it was you know, it was pre internet, really and we didn't know any better. We went to the pet store. We we got Goodie and Goody was Jesse's first sibling forever more. But we didn't realize that we were getting a dog from a you know, one of the poor breeder dogs that's kept in a cage. And it was only afterwards that I found that out, and so from then on it was rescue.
But you know what, I did the same thing.
My first dog was also bought in a pet store because we didn't know. I mean, you're right without the Internet, and you point that out in your book, and it made me think, that's right, She's right, Like I never thought about that.
But because before the.
Internet, we didn't know these things, you know, unless you watched a dog show or something. But even still, Suzi Milan didn't happen until years later, so we didn't know. So, you know, the thing was, oh, you want a dog. You'd go to a pet store not even knowing what puppy mills. But you know what, there are people today who don't even know what puppy mills are, which is terrible.
You know. I researched in a dead tree book, you know, actual book paper, what would be good for a child using a wheelchair, and and you know, and I thought, okay, East were one lap dogs and they don't shed, and they look like muppets, and he loves the muppets. And that's how we kind of got hooked on be Shan's.
You know, I think you kind of get hooked on a breed, although I love all the breeds and uh and so that was and then you did read that I was initially terrified of dogs because one almost took my eye out when I was But that was my own fault. I didn't understand that, you know. I I crawled into this uh hutch where a German shepherd had just whelped, and I picked up her. I thought I had discovered treasure, and then she almost took my eye.
Out because.
I would take someone's eye out of somebody.
Didn't know, you didn't know, yeah, yeah.
So but then the rescues were. They were a whole other, you know, journey to find out, you know. And I also learned about how varying the temperaments are of dogs, that it doesn't matter they've all gone through something, they will react differently too. Some have more resilience than others. And it was it was really interesting. The ones we have now, the last ones, the first girl dogs I've
ever had, they are amazing. I cannot get over the resilience of little Tete, who spent her entire six years in a cage as a breeder and was so neglected that the harness grew into her flat horrible, and she was a fear biter and nobody was adopting her. And she did draw blood from my husband the first day, but then she fell madly in love with him. And even now, oh my god, he goes away and comes back, she just the pitch of her bark is just and to watch her comeback she still brings me to tears
because she is still making discoveries. We've had her for three years and the other day, just a few weeks ago, we took her to the Bay farm which is near us, and this this beautiful nature walk by the ocean, and she's been off leash because she knows where the chicken is, you know. So and she suddenly took off into the woods and then came running back with a big smile on her face, like I chased a rabbit. I chased a rabbit and I came back.
Right, which is amazing when you think about where she came from.
That's right, you know. It's just moved me so much. I thought, Wow. And the other one, Sugar was never abused. She just was. I think she was living in a place where no one paid attention to her. Yeah, And so she was playing with a ball and then I saw the next day TETI. It's as if she's teaching her. You know, it's beautiful. It's beautiful.
It is When you first started writing this book, what was your intent, did you?
Because I know this is is this correct? It's your third book. It's my third book, one about your mom, one about Jesse.
Yes, you know my mother. I'm first to generation. My mother came here to escape fascism in an arranged marriage, believe it or not, Womaz Yeah, but yeah, I had written about Jesse. I wanted to write about the healing power of you know, because I was reading this thing about how the psychiatrists had done this thing, like, if you're still grieving heavily six months after somebody has died,
then you have complicated greeds. I thought, no, you know, and I thought, I really want to write to I want to write about the healing power of giving back to a creature that is has been damaged and how that can help you heal. And I don't buy what this says. This is wrong. I agree with you.
Absolutely, there's no there's no what is the word like not a diagram, but there's no like book that right, because we're humans, so.
Everybody's different and every situation is different, that's right.
And I just I just and raised me when I saw that. Yeah, so this is in response to that, more or lesson just talking about like what it did personally for me. I don't say everybody has to be me, you know what I mean. It's it's not a how to. This is what it did for us, right.
But I think because it's so real, your book is so real, and I think anyone will be able to identify with it in some way.
Oh, I really believe that. I mean, honestly, I hope that's true.
Well, because trust me, I never can. I never read books in a day, you know.
W thank you so much. I promise you.
I'm not making it up. I really did read it in a day.
I started it when I got home from work, and then I started reading it after dinner, and then I was had the baseball game in the background and I was reading it, and then I went to bed. I stayed up to like twelve. I wanted to finish it, and then I thought, oh, it's like twelve thirty, which is you know, much later that I go to bed. But BUPA plus, it was really that good.
And I'm not just telling you that, I really truly mean it because.
It was just so touching. It was just so touching, and.
You touched on so many different things.
And of course you know to talk to me about the whole dog thing, which is how I was.
Introduced to you, like, oh, you want to read this book.
It's about rescues in her life. But I have to tell you. You say something at the beginning of the book. And I've been saying this for years, and when I say it to certain people sometimes they get it.
And I just think it's because it's human nature.
And people are awkward with death and when right and to me, you should always say and maybe just because you know, we're Italian, so we're used.
To going to.
Yes.
So I think, you know, because I remember being in college and having friends who had never gone to a wake, and I'm like, are you kidding? We went as children, you know, Yes, So I think it's death is different to us. And and I also think so that we are not. You're never comfortable with it, but you know, if somebody us is someone you say, I'm sorry, and that's all you need to say.
That's right, that's right. I remember my dad died when I was fifteen, and it was one of those really terrible ways with people pulling him out of the coffin and you know, really full out. And I remember the most comfort I got was from my my dear friend, who was, you know, my little playmate from four years old, who did nothing, just came into the room and sat yes to me, touching me hip to hip, and that was it. You know. It was because my mother's people
came from they understood. They have this song called Mai you have left Me dark, and they that culture is comfortable with death. Our culture is not cure is not exactly I mean, get over it is the is the answer, and you don't and you don't, and then you feel or take drugs, which is so terrible. I mean not I don't judge people, who are you to. I just feel like I wish it weren't so, you know, forcing yourself to push everything underneath and we're just.
Going to say, yes, you sweep it under the carpet.
Yeah, I really hate that. So I did too.
And the thing that you said is when people instead of saying I'm sorry, they say I can't imagine.
Oh my god.
And I regardless of who it is or what or you know, whether it's a child or a parent or an animal, and people say I can't imagine.
I've gotten so angry with people, right, And then when I saw that part of your book at the beginning, I'm like, oh my god, I love her for addressing this.
Don't ever say I can't imagine, because you're going to have to so just stop it.
Oh my god. The go to. It's the go to for people. I get it, because it's really you don't know, you never know what to say, and God forbid. I mean, our son was disabled, so I mean there are actually people who said it was for the best.
I mean horrible, and I'm just horrible, horrible. I know.
I was like, like, as I was reading it, said the neighbor who said that.
Like what what?
Yeah, but you know she was from another generation. She was in her nineties, and maybe it was I don't know. It was like it was something that you said if you were wasp f.
You're stupid, you know, or callous or you don't have a heart. It's terrible.
But yeah, I don't get it. But I don't get it, but I do. I do love our life with dogs, and we were you know, we lost Lucky and Frenchy, the first rescue dogs during COVID, and I remember saying to my husband, it's bleak. A dogless household after having dogs is bleak.
It is bleak.
Yeah, And he said, I'm still morning Frenchy. I said, yeah, but I'm looking at that finder right now.
That's what you said.
And then because you kind of you convinced him to get the recent ones.
Yeah, yes, and he adores them, of course.
And they adore him of course.
Yes. Overally, I might add I'm a little bit jealous, I know.
But the other one who's feeding them and doing everything. But first they love him. But yeah, those are dogs.
They have been. It's been interesting. Have you noticed a difference between having girl dogs or boy you know, male dogs or female dogs. Yes, what is your feeling of the difference.
It's interesting.
My very first dog, my pug, was a female, and then the two dogs since then were males. And then when a neighbor of mine passed away, I took her dog in and she was an eight pound poodle who traumatized my seventy pound lab mix. It was, oh my god, it was insane. But yes, when I took her and she was a female, I don't know. I kind of feel sometimes females are a tad meteor.
And I hate to say that.
I don't mean to be against our own gender. My two male dogs were like frat boys.
They were like these I didn't feel that. I felt that these were more tuned like Lucky and Frenchy were bonded too. That made a difference because they were a bonded pair. They were like, yeah, we're good, you know what I mean. And they never slept with us. These two when they see me get water and go into the bedroom like all right, hurry up, going to bed,
let's go. Yeah, you know, yes, yeah. They seemed very in tuned, although they were kind of bullies in the beginning because they would I mean, my husband is a light sleeper, and they would start Sugar would start this low girl like get up, get and now I was like an idiot taking them out even before my coffee. That's how easily bullied I was.
Well, you're you're a very good dog parent. That's why you are. I know you would say that I took them out. I didn't have my coffee yet, so bad, I know, I don't know. It's it's interesting about the difference.
I mean, my last dog, I feel compared to all of them, and he passed away f months ago, so I'm in that dogless household right now, which is thank you, which is it's tough.
I mean, you know, it's just.
But and it's interesting because he was the only dog of all the dogs I've had who didn't want He never would sleep with me, uh huh. And it was really crazy, like never, but he was very happy to sleep in the bedroom, but in his bed.
Interesting, very interesting. It's temperament. It's like, you know, here's Frenchie that we've had for thirteen years. Even at the end of his life, if you put him on his back, his legs were like a four poster.
They never relaxed and.
Lying around the first month. Yeah, no, it's true.
It's very interesting.
It's very I'm fascinated by dogs for this reason because they're all so very different. And what was familiar about Lucky and Frenchy to me is my last dog, Fredo. He came from Mississippi and he was very, very fearful, you know, and live I live in New York City, so like, oh, that was smart. But he was, you know, a tuck tale for like two years. When people are like, oh, just give him like a month and he'll be fine, it's like, yeah, no, no, it's interesting, you know, I mean, yeah.
Yeah, they're all different.
I found it that way too. It was I just got used to the fact that they were just different temperaments and they were going to respond in their own way. And you know, the way Chris and I were trained as actors, which is so weird, is to listen for what was under the words, which of course trained us for our sons. Yeah, but also to deal with nonverbal dogs. Yes, you know, and to be able to communicate with them without words, you know, or to or to understand what
they were trying to communicate to us. This was a benefit. It was truly a benefit to be trained.
That right, right, And I think what you and Chris did and do as dog owners, which I hate to say it, but many do not, that you paid attention to their body language and their communication, which you know, I see people on the street and I'm like, why are you doing that? But I'm not going to interfere, But because people don't pay attention and they don't write.
Have you noticed that? But the way you guys have.
Walks with people, when I see people approaching, I feel like wow, or it makes me sad when I see people not let their dogs like sniff on there. Yes, I feel like, do you understand the whole purpose of this walk? No?
And they don't. They don't.
Yeah, And I think that's makes the big difference, because you know how you were trained.
You know, when I first got my first dog, I read so many.
Books and I used to watch Caesar Milan and all that, so I kind of right, and you did, and you kind of learn and like, oh wait, watch the body language, and I think that's the difference. Like I've seen people, young, very young people having a dog and it goes over and it sniffs the other dog's butt and they go.
Don't do that, And I'm like, what, I know, right, we're not expecting you to. Yes, well, that's another thing.
That's another thing I find and I know many people who and I'm sure you do as well, that they and there's a word for it that I always get wrong, but when you put human traits on an animal, and I know, yes, yes, that's it. Many people do that.
Yes, right, and they're not humans and they're.
Humans, yeah, they're animals, they're wired different canines.
Yes, yea. So although I did have that moment that I described in the book where Frince he thought he was part of the coyote package, that was very funny. It was to see him raise his little head and make a little howl. It was just so I thought you were an amused boosh, my darling.
Oh my goodness.
I know, I felt like I knew all your dogs just by the way you describe them, and they was just it was just so very familiar, even though I don't know them. But no, you did you just did such a wonderful job with this book, and I'm so I'm so happy for you and that you wrote this.
Thank you.
And I know you're about you.
You're doing you know, interviews and going on like a book tour. And I know I shouldn't even ask you this because it's too soon. But and what's next on your agenda.
The next thing I'm going to do is put together. I do have this. I have a book of auto fiction. I did go to Catholic school for thirteen years and it was a nightmare. Yeah, and I did write a bunch of connected short stories about it. And if you go on my website, which is maryanlioni cooper dot com, because there's another Maryanione, but you will see.
Yeah right, I didn't realize that.
Not right, And you will see a video of me and Chris reading a story from that. And Chris is pretty hilarious because here's this Midwestern cowboy reading my grandfather, you know, saying like it's pretty funny. So I would
like to publish that. But also I'm putting together. I've written a lot of essays, you know, I've written for the Boston Globe and a bunch of So I thought I'm going to put together a book of essays because I was, you know, I was at an event and I heard Anne Leary, who is hilarious, Dennis Leary's wife, reading from her book of essays, and I thought, geez, I think she wrote she wrote something about what it's like to be on the red carpet when your husband's
a movie star and you're not. And I thought, I've written the exact same essay for the Globe. So I thought I should, I should put together this. Yeah, well that would be.
Great, that's exciting.
Yeah, yeah, and people are so distracted. I think essays are good.
Essays are good, yes, because they're short. People have no attention spans.
But that's all yeah, I know, you know, I know, yeah, they really don't. Absolutely, it's amazing.
So yeah, well, okay, So if people want to buy your book, which I want them to do, they can do it through your website.
Correct, Yes, And I prefer bookshop dot org because that gets independent bookstores or your local independent bookstore or Acassic Books. Of course. Oh, I'm going to be in Brooklyn at Green Green Light Books. I have to get the tag upstate.
I have a date. I do.
I do.
I did some homework.
Wait, you're going to be in Brooklyn on Wednesday, September eighteenth at seven thirty.
Thank you.
You're very welcome.
I'm over my head here, thank you. Yeah, so I'm looking forward to that. And uh yeah, we lived in New York for seventeen years. I miss it terribly. Well.
Yeah, and you're going to be around You're in Rhode Island, you're up in Almany, Massachusetts.
Yeah, so you're doing a whole thing, which my listeners, because there are also people who are listening to this are also listening to this around the country, so they can actually by going to your website Mary dot com. Yes, thank you, and then I definitely want to talk to you again.
So thank you.
Dogs whatever you want, but all the best to you, and thank you so much for writing it. Like I said, it's just it's just so lovely, lovely. I feel like I know Jesse, I know your family, and it.
Just like kills well really I really do mean it. It like warms my heart. So thank you for sharing your life with us.
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Maria shar has never been a raider operator and does not see you Rader moamigator