It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio. Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me, well, you know, I realize I'm welcoming her back. It is Roseanne Perry and she's back with her latest book, a Wolf called Fire. You know, Roseanne, I realized we spoke back in the fall with your last book, that's right, with a horse named Sky.
Yep.
Yes, that was so cool.
So thanks for inviting me.
Of course, of course. Well, first of all, and I realized because I listened a little bit to our last interview and I realized, and it's so funny. But because you're consistent, because I commended you for your dedication, and that was the first thing I was thinking of for this, you know, to mention it to you, for this book for young leaders of every coin, may you grow in strength and wisdom and courage. That is just so perfect. No, it's a perfect dedication. What made you think of that? Like,
why why would you? Why did you do that? Well?
One of the themes of this book for the wolf whose alpha name becomes Fire, is that he's he's an unlikely leader.
He's the Omega wolf, meaning the lowest ranking wolf of his pack, and he doesn't have the kind of charisma or size or you know, domineering personality that other alpha wolves he knows has, and so a lot of his journey is figuring out how he can be a leader while still being true to the wolf he really is, right, Yes, Yeah, And that's what I'm really what I'm really hoping for my young readers too, is not that they feel like they have to become something different to be a leader
in their life, correct, But that they can find a way to be a leader with the personality and the skills and the and the outlook and heart that they already have.
Correct.
You know, that they can look within and find that that young leader in themselves and really embrace it, because there isn't just.
One way right, right, and just to like listen to their inner voice and their inner strength and just use that. Yeah, No, for sure. So your book, which I enjoyed and I love the illustrations as well, is based on a real story. So how did you come how did you come up to that to decide you know about the real wolf that it's based on.
Well, lots more has been written. It was I started researching wolf caused fire in twenty twenty two. But I had researched my initial wolf book, A Wolf called Wander, in twenty twelve, so you know, ten years had passed and lots of new stuff had been written, right dumb Rick McIntyre's books about the Yellowstone Wolves has come out since that time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And so I was so inspired by this young wolf, Wolf eight, one
of the original wolves brought to Yellowstone. He was brought with his parents and his three brothers, and he was the omega wolf in that pup group. He was smaller than them, he was not so handsome. The others were very charismatic and very domineering, and they bullied him all the time, the rangers who were watching them or seeing him getting nipped dead and food stolen, and they made him submit to him all the time, and they were like, wow, is this this pup even gonna make it right?
Right? Yeah? For sure? Yeah?
And and to be honest, wolves, I mean, this is kind of a harsh statistic, but the wilderness is hard for wolves and about half of wolf pups don't make it to their first year.
Oh I didn't realize that. And yeah, and why is that is that because so the bullying, or they're because they're weaker, Like why why is that?
Well, it's a lot of reasons. If if the pack itself is prospering and they can feed the mother, well, then they'll be well nourished. But if they're not prospering, if they if it's intensely cold, so there are some things that if they're like nutritionally compromised, that's really hard on a wolf because it's hard for them to keep warm.
Right.
Wolf pups are usually born in like pretty early in the spring when it is very cold where they live. And then also young pups when they're first out of the den. You know, there isn't much that hunts an adult wolf, but there are plenty of things that hunt a wolf, pop eagles and all kinds of things, and so, yeah.
It makes me feel I know, those poor babies, I know, I know.
So but at the end of that first year, as as is reasonable to expect, only two of the four pups in that group did survive to be adults, but eight was one of them. Wow, that was one of them. And he came out of that experience of being bullied his in his first year with Oceans of compassion for other wolf pups.
Wow.
And so then when he dispersed from his pack and he went, you know, to find his own life, he came across another wolf pack that was in a crisis at the time. It was one of the largest and most impressive charismatic male and female wolves. They had eight pups, and the day those eight pups were born, the alpha
male was shot by a poacher. And so here's this female wolf all on her own, eight pups to feed, and this smallish, not very impressive looking the wolf comes along, and instead of trying to exporte some kind of alliance with the alpha female, he just goes straight to those pups and he's like, these kids are in trouble, and so he starts teaching them how to hunt little things mice and voles and gophers, and he moves them gradually with lots of patience and encouragement to hunting bigger and
bigger things, right, taking the pressure off of that alpha female to bring down larger game. And because he's such a gentle and generous mentor to those pups, the alpha female does choose him to be her partner. And because he was so good to his these aid adopted pups instead of dispersing when they became adults, even though they grew to be much larger than him. Because their own father was a very large, impressive wolf, they stayed with him.
Wow.
And they were fanatically loyal, and because he was such a good teacher, they became so impressive in the hunt, cohesive and fast and strong. They brought down their prey every time, and so they grew to be a very strong pack, and those eight offspring went on to be alpha's of many other packs in the future. So that most unpromising wolf who looked like he wasn't even gonna make it at the beginning, became the patriarch really of the most powerful pack in Yellowstone history. Wow. Right, because
he chose this different leadership style. He wasn't He never made them bow to him, he'd never bullied his pack. He was always collaborative and kind. He loved to wrestle with the pups. He was just a very different kind of alpha, and it turned out to be really successful, and lots of his sons and daughters took elements of his leadership style and carried it into the future.
Wow.
So that was I was like, that's so cool.
It is cool. It's cool. I mean, honestly, I think humans need to learn from him and realized that. You know, being a bully doesn't always make you successful, you.
Know, right, yeah, being strong in the moment, But there are things that look weak in the moment but actually turn out to be strong. And give you an example, right, Yellowstone Ate. One of the things that he did when when one wolf pack attacks another wolf pack, as they do jockeying for territory and sessions. Typically not always, but typically those packs fight until the alpha is killed, and then the pack of the killed alpha sort of panics and scatters, right, and that's the end of it. But
Wolf eight made a different choice. He although he hunted or he had a fight with almost every pack in Yellowstone Park at some point in his life, he never killed his opposing alpha. Not ever. He fought them until that alpha would submit to him, and once the alpha submitted, he let them go. Wow, which seems on the face
of it like a weak choice. Right, Here's the genius of it, though, once that wolf packed disperse instead of scattering in panic with those wolves going I don't know what happened there.
It can be out, you know what we do.
Instead, they're still with their alpha, and their alpha takes them away from Eights territory and says to them, whatever we do, we are never going to go over there and fight those wolves again. We are never going to cross into their territory again. And they tell that to the next spring, their grandchildren and their great care and children, and so the territory, it's territory, Yeah, became much stronger, sure, right, stronger than it would have been if he had killed his opponent.
Right right, because he doesn't always have to defend it now because yeah, well that makes sense.
Right, because they're like, we're not going over We're not going.
To go over there because he was cool, he let us be. Yeah.
Yeah. And so so I love that there is something that doesn't maybe look powerful in the moment, has more staying.
Power, right, Yeah, for sure.
And what choice.
Yeah, and what a wonderful lesson to be taught to young people two.
Right, right, right right? Yeah. Isn't just one way that that being big and being tough. It's just not the only way you have options.
You have options. Yeah, and usually you know, I mean for a human, usually bullies, Yeah, they really have very low self esteem. That's why they're bullies, you know, I mean, that's really what the bottom line is. Very it's fascinating and it's fine. I mean, and your story is perfect because the book obviously follows you know, warm who becomes Fire,
you know his name Fire, but his Wolf eight. Now, other than all of the offspring of Wolf eight, has there ever been another wolf that's similar to Wolf eight? Or is he kind of like one of a kind?
Well, he was definitely sort of iconic, okay, history of Yellowstone Park. But the thing, the thing I think is really beautiful is that many of his offspring and his adopted pups and the generations following many of them. Here's the intelligence of wolves. Right when they're in a pack. They can see if the pack dynamic is working right, right, they can see, oh, this this hunting strategy works. It again, this strategy for settling a dispute in the pack was successful.
I'm gonna I'm going to repeat that I like how I'm treated in this pack. I'm going to stay or But they can also decide I don't really care for how I'm treated in this pack. I'm going to go join the neighbor packs. Right, they have choices and they can see how different kinds of pack leadership work out, and so they have some freedom. Once they're adult wolves,
they can leave their own pack. They have some freedom to choose a different pack and a different strategy, and when they see something that's successful, they're inclined to imitate it, right, And so many of the legacy of Yellowstone epe Is is those more compassionate, more collaborative leadership tactics that that his offspring carried forward into the future. And so you can still see some elements of his leadership style in the park today.
Wow, that's pretty cool. That's very cool and so cool that you know, discovered this and decided to write about it, you know, in a kid's book, not really kids, like a young adult book. Even though I enjoyed it, it was good for me to read.
You know, I always want a book that's fun for adults to read out.
Loud, yes, right, yes, of course works.
For the whole family, huh. And also that works for teachers to read out loud in their classroom. Yeah. So that's the thing. The beauty of middle grade, I think especially, and why I write for that eight to twelve year old audience so often is because it's sort of the last group of books that are still read out loud.
That's true. I didn't even think of that, but you're right.
And I love that. I love the culture of reading out loud in families. Yes, there's just something really beautiful when that happens, and so I want to make sure that my books always read out loud.
Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I wasn't thinking that when I was reading it. I was thinking more with the with the illustrations. I can in my brain it was a kid, you know, a young adult going to bed and reading it and with the illustrations and kind of an easy read for them. But yeah, you're absolutely right, of course reading it out loud for sure. Yeah.
Yeah, and I should say those illustrations are by the absolutely brilliant Monica Armigo. She is from Madrid, Spain, and the she works digitally that art. But I just love the depth un dimensions.
Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
It's so careful to get every species just right, because some speed like like American badgers are super different from badgers in Europe, right, right, Yadgers in Europe. I've read but nine and sort of adorable looking. But you know, badgers in North America are are there? So the one of the most aggressive weasels out there, badgers and wolverine, right, they won't back come from a bear. They smell bad, they're extremely crabby. It's a whole other game. Yeah. So's
she's great about being you know, meticulously taken. I kid, sure she's representing the right species and she's just great to work with. So yeah, and it's the same illustrator as from a wolf called Wander.
So I was I was going to ask you about that. So you've worked obviously you worked with her before, but it was on the other wolf book you had someone different with Sky, right, with a horse gull Sky.
Yeah, Kirby Sagan illustrated a horse named Sky, and a whale of the Wild was illustrated by Lindsay Moore.
Okay, okay, So now I have to ask you this because when we spoke when when a horse named Sky came out, and I'm sure I asked you what you were doing next. I don't recall you talking about this book, but you were probably in the process of writing this book or was this already written? Because I have probably in the process.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think do you know why. I probably didn't say it, Probably because we are still negotiating the country.
Yeah, well that makes sense, of course I get it. Of course, why would you talk about it? Yeah? Probably let you brother. You know, I don't remember, but you probably said, you know, I'm working on something, and you know, and I said, okay, we'll talk again, never realizing it would be you know. No, it's wonderful and what I really Yes, I do.
Have another Voice of the Wilderness novel under contract with Random House. Okay, so the next one will be about Ravens and I'm super excited.
Oh I'm excited about that too. Okay, So is that in the process of being written or written already.
I'm still writing that now, so it's going to be a while. Ok If I need to finish writing it, we need to revise, and then the illustrator needs another six months or so to do all of that. That's a lot of it. It's like one hundred and thirty.
Yeah, it is a lot. It is. It is a lot. Yeah, but it's great. It's great. But no, I get that. I mean, I think the illustrations just really describe everything that you just wrote, you know, and the way and the way you have them disperse, it's like the like the timing of them. I love timing is the right word, but it's there, it's perfectly spread out, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I really. The book designer is Sylvie Lafoux at Hypercollins, and she's brilliant and making sure each each placement of each illustration is just right, it's sized right, and the text curves around the illustration in a beautiful way. And I mean design of a book is a whole art onto itself. Oh sure, he's brilliant at it. So she and she and Virginia Duncan are like the perfect team to work with at Green Willow.
Yeah. So yeah, no, I think it's perfect. And I love the fact that you know, after the story of Warm than Fire, that you talk about the real wolf behind the story and wolves in the wild. So it's very educational as you know, it continues, which I think is a very nice touch as well.
I'm so grateful that they give me lots of room for back matter because I know kids are really a child loves to know a fact, sure, and I love to I love to have some places for them to go with their curiosity and some things for them to dig in a little more about I want them to know something about the ecosystems and to think about the environment and so. And also if there's a nonfiction element, it's also makes it easier for teachers to use it in the classroom.
Sure, no, for sure, yeah, because then you said, because I was thinking the same thing. Kids are curious, so it just it kind of satisfies that curiosity for them after reading the story and like, oh, I want to know what else about this? So that's that's great. So yeah, so here's something and maybe could you see this as a movie?
Oh? I sure hope so, oh okay, okay, yeah, we have. We have been talking to film companies, both live action and animation companies off and on throughout the years, and so I know that that that they're my agent is actively working on on pitching it to film companies.
Oh that's great.
Films take a while, of.
Course they do, of course they do. But I think also having the illustrations that you have, well like kind of helps that along.
I hope. Yeah. I think it would be a really fun film to make, And there's been some gorgeous filmmaking from children's books. I just love the movie from a Wild Robot Olmer. Yeah, so beautiful and a really emotionally intelligent story and artfully conveyed. Yeah, with Stadliss so so I have lots of hope.
But yeah, but.
I'm also realistic that that sort of thing will likely take a while.
It takes a while, right, And it's not like you're not doing anything else. You're working on your next one. I have out the Ravens, which, by the way, exactly saying you're not running out of ideas and you are currently writing. And I don't think I realized this before. But is it true you always write your books in a treehouse, like not in your backyard? Is that true?
I do have a treehouse in my backyard and I ride up there very often. Nice not today though, because like thirty degrees out and snowing.
Oh yeah, that would be good. That would yeah, not a good idea.
Yeah. Also, my seahouse doesn't have walls. Right, If my treehouse had walls in the door, then raccoons would figure out a way to get in there and they poop all over it, and.
Oh, okay, so that would be bad. Yeah, No, I get that.
I get My seahouse is quite open so I worked there in the summer. I love working there in the summer.
Oh, I'm sure.
In the trees and it's sidealist right right, but it's it's not an all weather treehouse.
Let's just say, okay, all right, but that makes sense. It makes sense that you would do your writing there in the summer. I get it.
Yes, yes, yeah, it's super fun and when the kids were little, it has a rock wall to get up and is it blinding it down and nice?
All the fun thing, all fun. That's great. I love it. Yeah. So okay, a wolf called Fire. So Roseanne, where can my listeners get this book?
It should be available everywhere. It came out on the fourth of this month, and so it should be in your local independent bookstore. I work at an independent bookstore myself, and a Balloon's in Portland, and so I'm always encouraging people to get their books there. But it's also available in the big chains and the big box stores. It's available online, and it's also I also have to give
a shout out to school and public libraries. I get terrific support from our libraries, and boy are they in need of our support now.
Yes, for sure. But that's wonderful. That's good.
Yeah, So if it's if there isn't a bookstore in your town, or if that would be a big luxury to get a book, please tell your library. I'm always grateful when kids check out my books from the library too.
Yeah. I remember as a kid, we had a bookmobile that would come to my block once a week. It was so wonderful, like just talking about it, I can still smell it, and I can't tell you how many years ago it was, but it was just a wonderful thing to get a book out of a library. But yes, oh that's fun. Yeah it was fun.
I love bookmobiles too, and I actually wrote a picture book that's a little tribute to them called Big Trip Day.
Oh I didn't even realize that. How cool? Oh yes, yeah, bookmobiles are the best. And I'm so happy that they're still around, right they are still around? Yeah.
Yeah.
It's hard when you're not a child anymore, and like, are they still around? Yes?
Yeah? Well yeah, and it's a good solution in places where bookstores are sent on the ground, sure, and even library branches, so yeah.
For sure, for sure. All right, Well, Roseanne Party, thank you so much. A wolf called Fire. I really enjoyed it. It's wonderful to talk to you again, and I will be talking to you again when your book, well, whichever happens first, either the Raven's book or maybe the movie film animation. I'm sure we'll talk it again in the near future. So I thank you for your time.
Thank you, Maria, it was great to talk to you again.