It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff and with me because you know, I always love having returning guests. It is Andrew Farnsworth, or anithologist and bird expert, and he is returning because he was a guest back in October of last year.
So Andrew, welcome back.
Thank you for having me.
Ria.
Nice to be here.
Absolutely, So let's talk about I mean when we spoke, there are a lot of things going on. Obviously we talked a lot about the fact of all the buildings across the country with lights and interrupting with birds and their migration. And that was back in the fall. Now that we're in springtime, how what has that changed? Like obviously migration changes in the months and the seasons of the year.
Is that correct, Yeah, so it does. It does. In some ways it changes pretty dramatically and in other ways just you know, sort of the part of the return process, right like the opposite. So in some ways it's very simple.
But yeah, we're nearing right now kind of like think of it as a as a wave of peak migration happening from the US Mexican border to the US Canadian border, and right now that wave of like the most intense migration is just getting into the southern part of the US, and that way is kind of going to break over the US for the next few weeks, and by like the end of the months, the third and fourth week of May, the peak numbers of birds are going to be you know, sort of up at the Canadian border
and on their way to well for those that are still traveling anyway, on their way into the boreal forests and up to the tundra and so on. So yeah, we're in this period when when a lot's happening and and this is the you know, kind of the opposite obviously of what happened in the fall Bords. You're generally moving north and so on a lot of the same species, you know, the patterns of like the timing and exactly
where do change a little bit. But the whole process is very much kind of a repeatable and and actually a pretty expected and kind of predictable thing in sort of the broad sense. Kind of like using an almanac and even making a forecast about what migration will happen, you could do a pretty good job of knowing what's going to be on the move. Interesting Yeah, yeah, yeah. And as far as you know, the danger zone so to speak, and the hazards, yeah, birds are still facing
them every which way. There are some places, you know, where there have been improvements though, and I think I
think it's really important to kind of call out. Like last time we talked, there was this there was this major event that had happened in Chicago, and it kind of exemplifies the problem of birds colliding with buildings and glass transparent and reflected glass, and so it was this really big kill and a known bird killing building in Chicago that didn't have treated windows so the birds couldn't
see it, and also didn't have shaded light. Now, after the really the kind of furor about what happened there and how how serious it was and how big it was, those windows are now treated and there's a plan to shade and it looks like it reduced the number of dead birds beneath those windows by like ninety or ninety five percent.
Wow, that's incredible.
Yeah, So this is a case where you know, we know what works right and we just have to we just have to do it. So there's some real positive stuff that's out there, that's that's on its way hopefully, and then you know, we want to want to capitalize on that, right We could all use a win right now.
Yeah, No, for sure, for sure.
And I mean, I mean the last time we spoke, we spoke about the Javit Center in New York City taking up six blocks and you know, after all the time and all the birds that were lost, that they you know, upgraded and improved and so now that's been helpful to birds.
So maybe Chicago took a lesson from New York City? Is that possible?
Oh, that's certainly possible, you know, as much as probably the Chicago and no one to admit it that they actually it's a wonderful community there that's really been incredibly positive there and actually proactive before the New Yorkers so
to speak. Okay, but when it comes to this building and in Chicago and the same kind of success that happened at the Javit Center, it's all because of the same thing, right, It's like making this this hazard basically not a hazard to burn and it's doable and it's possible and it works right right right?
Yeah, are there and I'm sure there are, and maybe you don't know this because it's like off the top of your head. Are there other newer, modernize modern buildings in other cities around the country that did not do the right thing when they were built? And it seems like there's the community getting together just like they did in New York City and Chicago, Or is it too many to tell?
For sure? There are definitely there are definitely buildings that did not do the right thing. We're starting to get called out to do the right thing and frankly can do the right thing now because there are tools available to them right right. Then there also are architects out there and buildings that have done the right thing and put in from the start when they built the buildings the bird friendly glass, you know, so you don't need to reprofit it, right, you put the glass in to
start so that birds can see it. And so both of these things are happening right the idea of the retrofitting and recognizing like, oh, we need to do something here. Sure, maybe it's to avoid a pr nightmare, or maybe because we realize it's the right thing to do anyway, or we've done the right thing in the first place. Both of those things are happening.
For sure, that's excellent.
Yeah, and usually that discussion, you know, once it starts to happen, it's not that hard to have, you know, it's like, oh yeah, we can still communicate as people.
Right, right, you know, you're right, which is actually kind of it is encouraging and lifting at this point of our lives. I completely get that.
But also, you know, a lot of it has to do with you because you're you know, you've been fighting the fight and talking about it so much, and I feel like it's almost like you know, catching fire. Not to use that phrase, but you know what I mean, Like the word is spreading and people realize, like it's easier to just do the right thing from the get go, and we build this building.
That's right, that's right, And it's always you know, it's always a hard thing. Right. It's like when you either make a mistake or you do something because you don't know it, it's like, uh, like I have to fix that and that work, you know, but of course, like it's always easier to fix a mistake than it is to just let it keep going.
No, you're right, you're right.
For various reasons, it may not seem like that at the time, but this is surely the case that we've seen, you know, with the buildings that are retrofitting, and it makes an immediate difference, right, So then of course that's like it comes around to be like, well, look we've
done this really good sustainable thing. You know, the burgers and the animal lovers are happy, and the people in the building are happy because you know, they're not constantly getting harassed by by people saying like you're those are killing birds and right and so on. So it's a win all around. Yeahs these things.
Yeah, I was gonna say, it's win win for everyone. People can go to work in peace, but you know, it's not their fault that they're working in a building like that, but still, uh, you know, and then the people who are the animal lovers can move on to the next project.
So that's you know, so it is it's win win, and the most the biggest win is the fact that birds live.
Yes, yeah, that's right, that's the part of it. That's right. Birds live and they're you know, they're obviously integral to these ecosystems that we live in. And when you know, when you're like maintaining the components of the ecosystem. It's just that much more likely that you can actually maintain the whole structure, right because obviously it's just like the birds,
only it's clearly like the whole thing that's important. And uh, they're just a proxy for how to how to kind of keep the whole system healthy, right.
Right, Yeah, No, it's actually it's excellent.
Yay, some good news. Yay, Andrew, I knew you'd you come over with some good news. Indeed, No, it's good, it's good.
So let's see.
So what else can we can we share with listeners now that I mean with the whole migration with birds, how about getting into the summertime?
And I mean, is and maybe this is.
Totally off off kilter, but like off in the sense of with people traveling and I'm doing like going camping. Is that is there something that affects birds because there's more people are more out in nature, even though we want them to be more out in nature because of the warm weather.
You know, the interactions between people and birds, I mean, they they're kind of in the places where they're difficult, like things we're talking about with buildings or where people are disruptive or whatever that that happens all year round. Yes, there are places where, you know, like if you're out in the Hamptons and you're out on the beach there, like don't go wandering into the nesting area up these turns, right,
there are obvious things you can do. But I think I think the even better thing to think about is like the summer is a great time in particular in June, you know, in New York and sort of all over
the state. It's a really great time to keep a close eye on birds because they're all singing, right, this is the time when they're like when they they look the coolest in terms of there's the greatest diversity of colors, right, images are all fresh, and and the males and females are all you know, on territory, and they've got nests and so there's a lot of singing. There are a lot of cool behaviors. It's kind of like the best time of the year, you know, to be to be
out and listening and looking. So in some ways it's like flip the flip the human element on its head and be like, oh, okay, well this is the time I actually really want to go out and experience, and yeah, do it smartly, like don't don't disrupt, and don't be loud and sure like be be mindful when you observe, but but do get out there and see it, because
it's the time you really can engage. And I mean even if it's something as simple as you know, like in New York City, like on people's terraces and sometimes on their air conditioners. Right, they may have a mourning dove or an American robin nesting, and this is the time when you know the parents are coming in and feeding young, and like there's a there's a closeness and an ability to see that.
Now, right, it's.
A good time to get out and be looking. I mean it always is, but now especially.
Especially Yeah, yeah, yeah, I almost feel like it's it's because it's the time of year that humans, like it's a rebirth for us bring into summer, and I feel like it's the same thing you know, to explore, and it's the same thing for the birds well for nature.
Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. It definitely is a time when you can you can you know, it's obviously comfortable, generally comfortable to be to be a human outside at this point it's not like your frigid Sure, yeah, exactly with wind and ice and all kinds of things. And and a lot of these activities are happening because there's so much energy you know, uh that's translating into greenery, insects, you know, for birds, et cetera. Right, it's like it's
almost first energetic principles. Right, it's like some real basic physics there that the sun is there, it's at its highest, you know, the days are at their at their longest, and there's all this amazing stuff going on because of that.
Sure, no, that makes sense.
And you know, you we were talking about the parents coming out and feeding so and this just popped into my head because sometimes it happens.
What's the best thing for.
Someone to do, Say they're out and there in the park or something and they see a baby bird that fell out of a nest. What's the best thing to do.
So that's a good question. A lot of people ask that all the time. So if it's there's a good sort of a good you know, a good gauge, if it's if it's featherless, or if it if it really seems like it's a very very new uh, you know, kind of nestling that has has hopped out of the nest and really does not have feathers on it. If you see the nest, you know you can return that to the nest. Okay, so that's something that absolutely you can you can do. You can sort of gently scoop
it up and place it back in there. And you know, you also if you can't get back to the nest, like if it's somewhere high up or I don't know, on a wall or a tree or something like that, you can make kind of a surrogate nest, right, you can sort of create a little a little area where you can place the bird because the parents are guaranteed to be watching, right, they've invested.
In this sure of course. Yeah, so that's.
The one thing. If it's if it's a nest, like so basically if it's like a featherless.
Bird, ok yeah.
Yeah, And if you see a bird that's feathered, you know that is not exactly you know, sort of like looking like it's uh, for lack of a better term, you know, fully baked the shovel, but it's got feathers on it and it can move around and it looks like it's trying to fly. That's what we call the
fledgling stage. And again the parents are probably nearby and that birds looking to fly, and there's that's sort of a like, okay, you can keep it out of harm's away if it's trying to get into your house or if it's you know, crafting your window, and try to safely navigate it away. But that's one where you sort of leave it alone.
Leave it alone. Yeah, that's what I figured. Yeah.
Yeah, obviously, if it's in immediate danger, you know, okay, like you can you can move it a little ways to keep it out, but generally speaking, like you know, hands off. At that point, it's the bird sledged and has feathers on it and is moving around.
No, that's great, that's you know what, that's great advice because featherless. I would never realize that or think about it, because there's always that thing in your head, probably like a myth, oh well if you touch it and give it and put it back in the nest, and the parents are going to say, oh no, it had a human touch. But that's not true at all, right, I mean that's true, Like that's kind of a myth that people think.
It is yeah, birds, you know, I mean, we don't fully know like the extent of their their sensive smell, but it is not very good generally, to the point where let's say, you know, the old sort of tail of Oh, you get your scent on it, and the birds aren't going to come back. No, that's not the case. That's not you know, that's actually not the reason they
wouldn't come back. It's if there's a whole lot of disturbance and there's some predator around for sure, like hanging over the nest and just like constantly you know, right there. That's why they're not going to come back. It's not because you have your scent on the you know, on the bird. So absolutely they don't have a strong sense of smell, and that's not an issue. Getting that featherless bird back is definitely a thing you can do, for sure.
No, that's great, that's so great.
I you know, I've always wondered about that because you know, there's so many schools of thought and obviously they were all incorrect, and I needed to speak to you the expert on it.
Nobody.
It's good because it's good for my listeners to know too, because I'm sure it happens. You know, you could be walking through a park or something, you know, taking a springtime stroll, and it happens. Sometimes birds fall out of the nests. But yeah, featherless perfect perfect.
Yeah, that's right. Featherless or feather that's your that's the key out of the key.
Yeah, no, that makes sense. And of course the parents are always nearby.
It's not like, you know, they're going out partying and leaving the babies back, so you know.
But interestingly, you know parents like the that happens later.
Oh okay, yeah, exactly when the.
Birds, right, So when the bird sledge, when the young birds are out there forging and can fly and concede on their own, the parents do leave, right, and then they actually leave at different times, like the males and females will start migrating at different times, you know, the male parent, female parent, and they'll go to perhaps different places, you know, where they're not competing against one another to spend the winter, and the young will follow, right, So
they do. In fact, the parents do leave early, but not so early when the birds are still you know obviously featherless or.
You know, right, they don't kick them out of the house until that their kids are ready to stand on their own two wings or something, right, Is that right? Yeah? So for you for your job, what happens for you like this time of year obviously after the birds the migration that happens into June, like summertime, is that like a more complicated time for your job or is it?
I mean?
Or probably your job is always complicated and always busy with different if that makes sense, But like what's different for you as we get into the summer with what you do with your job?
Well, I can finally go to sleep now. I know.
You're not up all night watching birds?
Right, degrations happening?
Right, You're always up.
There's always there's always something interesting happening. And you know, obviously, like the bird world has a lot of I think pursuits in science and many things, but times in particular, there's there's always dynamism and there's always something exciting to
think about. So it's not so much like there's there might be downtime from like watching the weather like a hawk and try to understand, you know, how how birds are going to interact with severe weather or like really favorable conditions or whatever, or how interesting patterns are unfolding. It's kind of the time to start digesting a little bit and obviously you know, thinking about like okay, well what what just happened and what's likely to happen again.
It's kind of a little bit of a reset for sure, But I don't know, the complexity doesn't change. It just sort of shifts into into a different mode of like, all right, this frenetic period where there are you know, a few billion birds on the move is about to get you know, going again in a month. What did I learn this spring? You know, we're the head of
schedule behind schedule. Did the models work well? That predicted you know, when birds were going to be here or there where they're different sort of odd unexpected patterns that happened. It's a really good time to kind of digest that stuff. And I try to do that, you know, they try to make sense from that perspective. I mean, yeah, it's your you know, your Monday morning quarterback or whatever whatever way you phrase them, you know, right, Yeah, and so
it's not really really a downtime per se. It just is it changes the kind of the nature of like, okay, it's it's almost overload from you know, a in May and then again in September and October because there's so much happening and now there's so many people out birding
that the information coming in is just incredible. Sure, So so that does change, you know, during like June and July, and it's it's kind of nice to just sort of be able to think about the data and look at what happened and try to understand like, okay, like how does this year compared to others? Like what what am I expecting for the fall? Now? What kind of in New York City? What kind of a season are we
talking about? You know, like right now, for example, we're a little above the typical numbers of birds that have passed through like over Manhattan, for example, we're just over like a million birds for the for the year, and that'll go up to well, I don't know, like two and a half to three millions, so you know, we're still to come in the big peak and in June it'll be like, okay, well, how did that actually transpire? What did do we get to that sort of average number?
Was it earlier than usual? That's the kind of stuff that happens in the same.
Right, right, So it's time for you then to digest it, put it all together, do your research, and also for you probably to take a breather here and there as well over the summer.
Yeah, there definitely are. There definitely aren't as many you know, stories and other things to spin when when birds are more stationary, there are different stories to talk about, right, But for me, you know, with the migration talk and background, that is definitely a time when I could just sort of think about like, oh okay, like I don't have to feel that call today, right, and that discussion can be tabled for a couple of weeks.
Sure, no, that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's.
Cool, it's great.
And you know what, I do appreciate that you took the time out because I know this is kind of your busy season.
So I appreciate that and appreciate you.
I find you so fascinating and your information just so useful and you know, and that we can all for those of us who aren't bird experts or you know, just know a little bit about birds, you explain it so well for all of us, for me and I list and I really do appreciate you so and so thank.
You for that.
Well, I really appreciate being you know, being here. Thank
you Mary for having me. And it's it's nice to talk to the audience, you know, and and hopefully, uh, you know, it inspires people to get out and think about these things and and obviously you know, to to explore the way I see it often when there's two elements, right, when when you walk into a cocktail party and say, you know you study birds, right first, there's like, wait, what right exactly, but it's a little bit rare, but right, everybody, everybody,
everybody has a story is related to birds, and it does not take much to get people very animated about their story. And because of that, it's the really easy thing to talk about, right, And if there's inspiration that that gets people more interested, I'm all for it. I'm happy to do it. I'd love to, you know, love to to have people be able to share some of these things that I've been fortunate to learn and see, sure, and have more people do it. You know, it's like it's a win all around.
Yeah, no, that makes sense. It makes so such perfect sense.
And you know, if anybody goes to a cocktail party and somebody says something about birds, they can say, oh, I.
Know Andrew Farnsworth. He talks to Maria all the time. He's a bird expert. Well, Andrew, thank you so much.
I know we'll talk again, and I actually for once feel optimistic that I feel like when we talk again, you'll have a story about another city that did the right thing with a new construction, you know, new construction of a building.
I just have that feeling.
Yes, I have the same feeling and the data to support it even which is even better.
Yeah.
Absolutely, Well, thank you so much, thank you for all you do and for your time, and we will definitely talk again.
Thank you so much for you