It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff and with me. I'm so I'm so thrilled. It is author Paula Wyman, and her latest book, which just came out, is The Bad Naturalist. So, Paula, thank you so much for I can't wait to talk to you about this book.
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Absolutely so Okay, So the premise of the book is that you decided to buy a two hundred acre mountaintop to eventually live there.
What made you decide to do that?
Well, I'll tell you what. I was always really very attached to nature as a kid. I was always into insects, you know, turning over rocks, collecting insects and bughouses and watching them, and continued my passion for the natural world throughout my life.
And just.
Several years ago, my husband and I had been we had been wanting for a long time to move out to the country to get a small farmhouse, and I wanted to raise sheep, and so we were looking for a place for a very long time. And during that process I was continuing to read about conservation and about just different aspects of nature. I tend to get obsessed
and sort of deep dive into things and the thing. Yeah, So the thing I was interested in at the moment was I had been reading a lot about native plants, about bringing native plants back to your yard, if you have a suburban yard with grass, or you know, planting native plants in your garden or your window box in the city. And I had also read a book where a farmer in England had taken a thousand acres of
her farm and let it go back to nature. And so I had these ideas in mind, and I thought, wherever we end up, I want to plant a little native meadow. I'm going to plant this little native meadow and I'm going to put a shed there where I'm going to sit and write my book, and I'm going to watch the flowers throw and it's going to be very romantic. So I knew that I wanted to plant a small meadow to help you know, native wildlife and
native plants. And while we were looking, we heard about this place that had a fantastic view and we thought we were just coming up to see the view from this mountain and it was August. It was hot. The road did not go all the way up. It was basically rocks and roots, and it was pretty steep. So we hiked up and there was a path, like a narrow path mode along through all of this dense vegetation because apparently it hadn't been touched in quite a while, and it used to be a cattle farm, but there
was this dense vegetation. It was over my head these yellow flowers. And I were walking up this path hemmed in by these flowers, and get up to the top and I look out and I see this open meadow that is around seventy five acres with all of these yellow flowers, these six foot plus tall yellow flowers, and all kinds of other bees and birds and everything flying around my head. And I looked at and I thought I was going to plant a small meadow of native plant.
And that seems really like nothing compared to that. I mean, it just seems seems like I could I could do something really big here. Look at this place. You know, what could I do with it? I sort of didn't think about in the moment that I didn't know a lot about plants. I wasn't good at gardening. I didn't know much about restoring native meadows or you know, I knew how to plant something, but I didn't know anything about this place. I didn't know what questions to ask
for whom to ask. So anyway, we did it anyway.
And that's right.
But you know, I have to tell you, I feel like because I mean because just reading the book, and you know, I was jotting notes like I don't know what that is.
I don't know what that is. You.
I feel like you were ahead of, say somebody who doesn't do what you do, because you're so very environmentally minded and and I mean like that's kind of in your wheelhouse, as opposed to somebody, say, who was an electrician and decided to do the same thing. And I don't know, I feel like you you were okay to do that, even though it was more than you were expecting or more than you thought you guys were going to do.
Does that make sense?
Like I kind of feel like you had a head start already on it because you are so connected to nature and know about things. Because I just felt like through your book you were talking about the stuff that you were describing, and I was like, wow, that's pretty cool that she knows that that's that. Like I would just think, oh, that's a weed, right, But you were very specific, even though I know you had help from
other people. But your general brain, the way it's wired, recognizes weeds and flowers that I think someone who's not involved like you are would be able to recognize.
I think anyway, Well, I did have a long time love and appreciation for nature, yeah, but I was less focused on plants.
I would get really into some like creature or place. But I was I was like I used to when I was a kid. I would find horseshoe crabs on the beach and I would try to put them in the bathtub in our hotel, but like bathe them. Yeah.
Fun.
So I would get really obsessed with things. And also as an adult, I was really into gray whales for a while. I was really into lizards for a while, you know, and I had to know everything out them in that moment. But but it didn't really happen for me with plants until I got to until I found this place, and so I really did. I mean, the way I found out about this stuff I wrote about in the book was I had to learn I really
I had to learn. And I started out, like you said, talking to a lot of experts who knew way more than I did, who had been doing this for a lifetime. And I even walk, you know, I walk on the on the meadow with especially this one woman named Charlotte,
who is like a plant guru. You can recognize things even when they're dead, you know, amazing, yes, yes, yeah, And so she started me in like learning to pay attention to plants and look at them and notice them and not just see like landscape or backdrop, because that's how I tended to see a lot of plants really until until I started doing this. So I guess I'm trying to say, is I think anyone can learn right, right, I can learn this, anyone could learn, right.
But yeah, and I mean, and you you really.
Did a great job of describing and making the reader feel like that person like for me was learning as well, you know, I mean, because I'm yeah, I mean, like I'm really into plants. And when I was growing up as a kid, we always had gardens. And I live in an apartment, so I have a lot of plants in my apartment. And I'm like, I probably could recognize things,
but wow, where you were. You know, it was like, I don't know if I would be able to do what you did because you know, I guess, yeah, you had help or whatever.
I don't know. I just feel like.
It might maybe for someone else, but maybe because you get obsessed with things, which is a really good quality, because then you learn where somebody else might have been overwhelmed and said, oh why did we do this?
But you never I don't think you ever felt that way? Did you ever feel that way? Going along?
Oh?
I did you did?
Okay? Oh? Yes, absolutely? And I asked myself that question many times, like was this crazy? Why why did I decide to do I could have I could have just you know, my kids had gone off, they were adulting, they had left. I could have just done something a little easier. I could have kept doing what I was doing, you know, writing editing that you know, something that wasn't
such a big challenge or a big leap. And this is a big leap to like to learn something very new, even in a category that, as you said, I've always been interested in.
Sure, I still had to.
Learn something very new. I didn't know anything about. This is technically ecological restoration that I'm doing And I didn't know anything about doing that really other than the little articles I'd read, and I did regularly ask myself, especially when I made big mistakes that I thought were making things worse, or when I would find a new like undesirable plant taking over an area and I hadn't, you know,
because I hadn't been paying attention to that spot. I would just be like, I'm so bad at this, I'm just making things worse, right, But you aren't doing?
Yeah, what you aren't because you were learning.
I mean, honestly, when there there was a part when you when you talked about that and how the plant and not that it was a bad plant, but it was like one of those weeds that just takes over. And it just reminded me again on a smaller level, which is why I think anyone can relate to what you went through. I mean, you know, I have this vine different plants and they go it goes nuts, and I the other day I saw that it was starting to root into another plant, and I'm like, what are you doing?
You can't do that, you know.
And that was on a very much a very smaller level than what you were dealing with.
So it was.
It was relatable, if that makes sense. But I also think, yeah, no, it definitely was. But again I don't know if you know, I mean for me, I probably would have been overwhelmed and been like, uh, I'm out of here, which you did not do, which I think is really impressive. You know, you stuck with it. How many how I wasn't sure of the timeline. How long ago did you buy this property?
It's been just about four years.
Oh, that's what I mean.
I thought it was that small amount of time. But that's really a small amount of time really when you think, I mean for us, probably for you, it feels like eighty years.
But I started in right away, like contacting people, and I talked to one person and they'd say, have you talked to so and so? And then I'd talk to so and so, and usually when I asked people if they wanted to come out and take a walk on the mountain, everybody was gained for that, sure, And luckily around here there are a lot of great resources. There are all these wonderful nonprofit organizations that are looking to help farmers and landowners to you know, improve the improve
the native habitat, sure on their land. And you know as well as like government organizations and just individuals. I also talk to farmers and foresters and arborous and the Agricultural Extension Office and just basically anyone who would answer the phone.
I got that's funny, Well you did your homework.
But I feel it's also you know, especially where we are today, you know, in twenty twenty five, and how humans have kind of destroyed much of the world, you know.
In the environment and the rainforest and everything.
Else, and the goal is to get back to nature and help things come back, you know, animals and they're not extinct, and plants that will bring them back to where they belong. So I feel like your path that you did is something that more people probably would love to do and might be doing now, you know, looking forward, because we have to fix the earth. So I think you're you kind of might be a trendsetter with.
That, oh I hope. So yeah, I think there is. I mean the trend probably started before me, because like the Homegrown National Park movement, which was started by Doug Tellamy and his book Nature's That's Hope, which talks about the importance and why bringing native plants to your yard. If you say you're in the suburbs and you have a long you know, or even just planting a native plant in the window box. How helpful that care for local pollinators and birds and everything, and that is that
is a big movement and that really inspired me. And yeah, I think that. I think it is a thing that more people can do. I think it starts with, at least for me, it started with paying attention and observing and just looking more closely at the natural world wherever you find yourself. Yes, it's funny that, you know, when I lived in an apartment and when I lived in the suburbs, I didn't pay as much attention to my
immediate surrounding as when like I was traveling. You know, I'd grow on a trip and I'd be totally into whatever was going on with nature there. But then my backyard it was just like, oh, so many mosquitos.
Well, I think that's probably I think that's what most people probably do, because you kind of get a I guess I don't not that you're bored with it, but you get accustomed to it, and so you kind of ignore things.
You know, And I think that's so natural.
Yeah, it's human nature. I was going to say, yeah, and I think you can.
You can sort of look at your surroundings with fresh eyes. You know, the city park that you walk past every day, what's growing there? Like if you stop and look at like what what insects are you seeing? What birds are
you seeing? What? What is that plant in your backyard that you know maybe you've been like walking past it for weeks and no idea what it is, but never thought about, you know, finding out what Maybe it's a native plant or maybe it's a bad weed, and if you pull it, something good will grow there and maybe
you'll see butterflies visit it. So I think that it starts with observing and letting the things that grab you drive you right, you know, because if you're engaged, if you're really interested, then you're more likely to stick with it,
that's true, more likely to do something. So if you plant, like a milk weed plant in that corner in your backyard, and you know, next spring or summer you see a monarch butterfly there or a caterpillar there or something, it's so empowering and inspiring and motivating Like you did that, you made that happen. Yeah, No, for sure, what happened if you hadn't done it right.
Right, right, No, it's true, and that's what your book.
I mean, it's like auto biographical really because it's your whole journey of you doing that, and I feel like you kind of discovered and rediscovered a lot of nature. I was just I mean, there are a couple of things that I thought was I thought this was a kind I never really thought about that. But you referred to your dog as a dog a walking seed and plant distribution, and I never ever thought of that. But
it's so it's like brilliant because it's true. You know, dogs catch pollen, they catch seeds, they catch so much. So thank you for saying that, because it's something I never thought about, but it is so true.
It is, and really especially here because those tall flowers I was talking about, they're called yellow crownbeard, and they release these seeds all throughout the fall and really still even though they're dead, those seeds are still coming off. And my dog collects them like velcro, right, and there are like hundreds of them and she comes in and I like basically after brushure every time she comes in
because the seeds stick to everything. Sure, and at least those are native plant seeds, right, But if she gets into the silk grass, that's another cop right, right.
So yeah, yeah, it's true.
And we get it on our shoes, on our vehicles.
In our own air.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
You do know it's true, It's really true.
Yeah. I just thought.
I just thought it was really fascinating. And for those who are just you know, who are listening and they want to read the book too. This your property is in Virginia, correct, in the Blue Ridge Mountains.
Yes, yes, it's in the foothills of the Blue Ridge, the Northern Blue Ridge, sort of not far from Shenandoah National Park. And yeah, the the peed Months I guess you would call it, but it's the Piedmonts. As you get the closer art of the Blue Ridge, the taller they are, I guess. Yeah, And we're pretty close to the Blue Ridge.
Yeah, I mean, and I was Actually this was another fact that I didn't know that eighty five percent of the grasslands or own IVY, which I thought was actually pretty good because sometimes I worry about you know, government properties, national government properties becoming.
Not being used or being used for something they shouldn't be used for.
So the fact that I think eighty five percent owned privately that's a good thing.
Am I correct in thinking that?
Well, it can be, it's I think it's it's a little bit deceptive because I think a lot of people have this idea that as long as we maintain the national parks and state parks and the local parks, then we're saving nature.
Right.
But those parks, first of all, are not like a true cross section of all of the habitats that were needed,
and they're also just a tiny percentage of natural areas. Right, So when you say that, so, yes, eighty five percent of grass ends and more than fifty percent of forests are privately owned, and so that's good if those private owners are taking care of that land, you know, showing some responsibility for making sure that things are you know, things are good for sure nature that lives there, and that's not always and.
That's not always the case. Yeah, no, no, that makes sense. No, I get that. I get that.
So I know you're as you said at the beginning too when we were chatting, that your goal, of course, was to have a house, and your house is complete, you are currently living there as of now or yes.
It is now? Yes, okay, and I but it's only been really a few months.
Oh okay, we've been.
Able to live here. And so before that, I was coming and going, you know, I'd come in the morning and i'd leave in the evening. And now my husband, he's an eagle scout, so he was right, he's mister outdoors, so he would camp here sometimes. And you would think that I miss outdoors or whatever. But and I am, but I can't sleep on the ground.
Anymore, right, right, we're not twelve anymore. I get that.
Yeah, that's really cool, though I'm not even sure I could do it when I was twelve.
Yeah, no, I know, I know, but that's but that's really cool.
Congratulations because that was your original kind of romantic dream, but.
You did it.
Yeah.
Well, And it does make it a lot easier to do the work here, sure, because you know, being able to wake up here and being able to work all day and just being able to keep up with things and being able to.
See what's happening more of more of the land.
Yeah, and I'm sure it must be a gorgeous place to wake up to and to go to sleep to at night.
It is. I have to say that every sunset is different, and it is really beautiful. It's snow covered at the moment from the snowstorm that we had a few days ago, and it's I wish my room were not snow covered anymore.
Right right, Yeah, yeah, I know.
But otherwise, yeah, it's really pretty.
It's great.
No, I think I think it's a wonderful story. It's a it's real.
Uh, you know, it's.
Something that you experienced and that you you met your you achieved your goal of what you wanted to do when you bought that piece of property. If what would be the one piece of advice if someone who's listening to this right now is thinking about, you know what, I think I'm going to retire and do what Paula did.
What what would be if there.
Is one piece of advice to give to someone who wants to take the same road that you just did.
The exactly Well, that's a great question. I would say. I would say, maybe looks for a place with not such a steep road.
That wasn't what I was expecting. But okay, yeah, everything.
Takes longer when you're on a mountain, everything takes longer. Everything is a little bit more difficult to say that because people have to get up here to and and just look at your local resources and see you know, what are they saying is look for the helpers, look for your local resources, and be willing to ask questions and okay, I guess this is this is the real one.
Okay, And that is.
Question your question because for a while I would look at a plant and I would just assume that the first thing I learned about it was that was the right answer. Don't expect there to be one right answer. There's going to be a different answer depending on your goals. If you're a farmer, you may not want this one particular plant on your property, but if you're looking to have native meadows, it may be the perfect plant for you.
So you have to really consider the source of the information and and make sure that the information that you're getting matches your goals. And don't worry about the perfect solution because there isn't one.
Oh that's good, that's perfect.
And just to go along with what you said at the beginning about not having not being such a steep road, at least you know when you have visitors, they really want to see you. That's right, right, So that's wonderful so bad Naturalists from Paula Wyman.
Tell me where can my listeners get the book?
It just came out, so it's hot off the presses, and I think they'll be very I think they'll be thrilled with this book.
It's so very.
Interesting, and hey, you never know, like I said, you might be a trendsetter now for more people who.
Might want to do it. So where can they get your book?
I would love that it should be available in any bookstore near you and online. And if you want more information about me, you can go to my website at Paulawyman dot com, where my events are lists and my social media and you can contact me if you have questions or want to talk about anything. If you're thinking about doing something like this, and I would say go for it. And if you want to ask me for
advice or anything, I'm happy to respond. I love talking with readers and visiting book clubs and all of that. And I have a newsletter. I should mention my newsletter if it's free, and it's the continuing story basically of what I'm discovering here, because the project goes on even though the book is done. I'm always discovering new things and I put them in the newsletter. It's the Bad Naturalist Newsletter. You can subscribe on my website.
Oh that's terrific. I will do that too, I definitely will do that.
Awesome.
So this way I can keep in touch with you because I know there'll be something for your next book and then we can chat again.
So Paula, I love that. Yes, me too. Thank you so much, this is so fascinating.
Thank you for your wonderful book and for chatting with me today on Maria's MutS and stuff, and thank you.
Thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed our conversation. Sara has never been a Rador operator and this not see you rader vamigator