Literally running it up the flagpole (14 May 2025)

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Good evening, Welcome, hope you good. My name is Marcus. Here till twelve tonight. I hope things are good in your district. Who calls them districts? So that movie District nine. Remember that was a weird one. Welcome here till twelve. I hope you're good. If you're not good, I hope you're better by the time twelve o'clock rolls around. I talk, you talk, we talk, we talk back at you. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. If you want to text,

Or?

Because I mean, the lot's changed in the last ten years. A lot has changed. We've gone forwards, we've gone backwards, We've gone sideways. But yeah, I'm just asking you the state of the nation. If you are now quite content with it? Was it a situation that people were quite intent of it until they're offered a sense of a change, and then in fact people started breaking bad in all directions and saying, oh, we need this because we get

Hey Marcus.

I look, it's funny that the flag things always niggled me a bit, but I really feel that we need a flag that actually is clearly and definitively New Zealand. And as much as I love the old you know, r S a sort of slurting flag and all the rest of it, I think our flag just just just disappears into the wilderness, to be honest.

So you think you think there is a I'll come back to what you say, you think there is an appetite for change, Well, a lot of.

People I talk to say that. I mean, you know, we don't we obviously not something you talk about every day, but every now and then it comes up and and and yeah, a lot of people I talked to you say, well, you know that is that our flag is the Australian flag for a start, because that I can hardly get the difference, and the other colors, the colors and the sort of formula of the flags are quite quite you know,

Honest, Okay, really fair opinion, Brian, thank you for that. The great example, of course Canada and Japan. I think Canada that's quite quickly. Japan I'm not so sure about, but great both great flags, striking, striking, red and white of course too. Aaron Marcus, welcome, Oh good a mate, how are you? Yeah? Good things, mate, good good.

Yeah.

I'm just about the flags.

I'm not quite sure if we shall expend some energy on this canding of the flag stuff. I just think we've had the flag for so long now, and I'm trying to former out one I was going to say, but we've always looked here, We've always looked under the flag, and it doesn't really matter how we identify as or who we are. It's just our flag and that's how we should always sort of well, well I think how I think we should always live under it.

So do you think when we had the referendum? Now then people have become more committed to the old flag because they voted for it and they fail. Okay, that's that we've had our chance. Actually, this flag's pretty good. Is that you reckon what people kind of came into that whole process thinking.

Well, I sort of think that. Well, to be honest, it doesn't.

It doesn't spin my wheels. But none of the new designs did either.

No, No, none of the new designs did either. But if you're going to make a flag or build a new flag for New Zealand, I don't think there's anything better than what we've got to be asked with.

You, okay, because a lot of those a lot of the people that for the Commonwealth had the Union and they got rid of Union Jackson got their own flag. As they became independent and kind of fought their own way in the world, they ditched it. You know, it's sort of sort of growing up. I think that's sort of what people said.

Yeah, I get that kind of sentiment, and I don't understand that, but yeah, I mean again, integrate a new flag like that red flag thing was awful?

Which one?

But yeah, what was it called Mountain Peak?

Oh yeah, No, John Key didn't do that one. Red Peak. Red Peak was a late bolter. And then he just said, which I thought was quite fair. Let's put that in as well.

Oh okay, there was four of them.

There was four of them, most designed by the same guy. That involved a union diagonal silver fear on the diagonal, right.

I just think debating the flag now is pretty sort of I don't know, it's superfluous considered what we've got to do with a country.

Although I think you can country is a country. You can deal with more than one thing at once.

Well, we think at what we've got going on at the moment, and there's a lot more things to worry about.

The design about it.

You can said about anything. I know, I get that, and I see they've done that in South and with the with the right Yeah, no, yeah, okay, I'm trying to remain neutral on this. Adrian Marcus, welcome, Hey there. How are you good to hear from you? Adrian Dances You're on. I got a busy life going on.

What are you doing, just picking up some dinner?

Oh good, go yeah, what is it for? Young?

Close?

Very close?

Good guess lame drass mate?

What's what's the first word?

Lamber drass mate?

See lamb okay, lamb you know lamb madrass?

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

You can get like you're creamier versions like lamb coorma, but lamb madrass is more coconut, a bit more heat.

See.

Look, look how internationally we are as a country. Now. We're still with the Union jack on the flag. You with your lamb address and the flag still with the Union jack.

Yeah.

Well actually so so I'll hit the ball. I'll get the ball rolling.

Eh.

So a couple of points. I wanted to mention because I can go back to my thoughts on what that other guy said about how important it is and stuff like that. But I'll come back around to that, Okase. I'll start with with the I just thought it caught my attention to thought, oh why did we do that in the first plason? I remember I read a book called Into the Jaws of the Dragon by Ron Asher. I don't know if you've ever heard about it, heard

Oh, I don't think that's I don't think that's true, Adrian.

Oh, well, it was in the book and they had something some photos of it, and but the giveaway was how much they invested into it. So the fact that they invested so much into the referendum meant that everybody had to go through that and D D D.

I think it was very clear that money that the government, the money came from the I mean, he was a prime minister. It was it was government money that funded the referendum. There's no doubt about that. But anyway, just yeah, well it's a good call because it just shows how contiporori the whole thing was. But you appreciate that. Into the jewels in the Jaws of the Dragons the book, guys, not what I've read. He's done on stock at page black while looking at Google, Steve Marcus, welcome.

Hey Marcus. I'm just on the play thing. I drove for a trucking company and I turned up for work and here they were sticking.

Was it a blue and black there was the favorite?

Yeah, I think so blue. Yeah, yes, yeah, I.

Half blue and half black.

Yeah.

Well here they here, they were sticking on the back of my trailer. And there's a stick you know, it's a sticker and the mountain of abuse. So I got from people driving up and down the road. Oh yeah, I'm getting the fingers, people yelling in the out of the window because they didn't like it.

A lot of people didn't like.

Their I hit it on there for three months on the back of the truck.

Yeah, I think the four, the four, the four ones. Was there a black and white codrou just you know, one side white, one side black with the collar. The one was just black and white with the four in the whole way. So three of them are pretty much the same, with the furn going on the diagonal one with black and blue and black.

And yeah, yeah, I know half of it was much a light blue issue. You might have been white actually, but yeah, I didn't like it.

It's interesting that the punters didn't like it, Stephen, they're tooting at you. I'm looking at the Wikipedia page about the flag referendums. I think most people were found the whole thing extremely confusing. The first referendum took place twentieth November eleventh December. If New Zealand flag changes, which flag would you prefer? Voters were presented with several options selected

Good evening. Yeah, I've been an advocate of changing the flag for some time because I feel that we are a sovereign nation in the South Pacific and we need something that I clearly identified as New Zealand. Al tier. I'll call it what you like, um, and I think it's time to sack the jack. New Zealand has been an independent nation cease being at the William of the British Empire over seventy years ago, and it is time really, So I don't really show any tritem in New Zealand flavor.

So just look. I mean, I like the expression to sack the jack. Have you moved on since the referenum ten years ago? Or did you have these feelings ten years ago?

Or have you just yeah, I've had those feelings about for about twenty years or so. I haven't traveled a fair.

But okay, so were you happy? So were you happy with the process or did that drive You're mad that they wasted that opportunity.

With such Yeah, I could see how the process confused people and infuriated people. I quite like did like the the sort of term the Lockwood design flag. Although if we do it again, I think it would be great to have big mixologists in a national a national competition perhaps to see who could have created well.

I think we needed good designers because it seemed to me to actually put your things and you just had to go to clunky software, which meant that all of them kind of looked the same. Yeah, and I think it should have been a so it should have been an online exercise. It should have actually required design. Maybe you need to pay designers big dollars to come up with something really good rather than hobbyists coming up with something that looks like packaging.

Yeah, but it would have to reflect the fact that the fact that we're a sovereign nation in the South Pacific.

Yeah.

Sometimes what you know, when you say sovereign nation, what do you mean by that?

A nation that is an independent nation where where we're not part of the British Empire or colonized by the British. Obviously, we are an independent nation in the South specific.

So the government, the government has supreme authority. Yeah, okay, fair enough.

Yeah, I mean even though we are a common rough nation, many other commons not rough nations, have changed their flags or individu nations. I know the older generation will have strong ties to Britain, perhaps the appearance of British or what have you, But I think future generations won't have so much about of the bond to the UK.

Yeah, I find what you're saying quite interesting. I'm just wondering though, after that, after after we kind of lead all that hot air out ten years ago, that maybe people aren't as committed to change as they went through and just think, oh, well, you know, we tried, we failed, let's just relax about it. But you seem as that you're still quite passionate.

I'm quite passionate. Although it's not high on the sapriiti, I'm still quite passionate. I'm still welcome to change.

Because I thought what would happen is that someone would design a fantastic fleat that would just start seeing it more and more and that would be adept adopted. I haven't seen that happen so much, obviously.

Wondered, Yeah, just at the time John Key was in twenty sixteen he resigned from the Prime ministership. I just wonder at that stage where the people had had enough of John Key, whether it was a the result was perhaps the big finger to John Key. They saw it more of the sales or marketing exercise there might have been that might have been part of it as well.

I think he would have got back in, wouldn't he.

I don't know. Well, he did resign at the end of twenty sixteen from men.

And I think per English, you know, if he'd run a decent camp, you know, he was assuring to get back in, but it just wasn't quite Yeah, okay, well, of course remember that peril English. Winston went with the Labor government. That was that's right, a minority. They'd pold less than national anyway, So yeah, and that was about who knows why Winston what Winston did, But yeah, I think probably he would have got on that fourth term, although probably would have said he wouldn't work with Winston.

Welcome, Hello Marcus.

Yeah, I'm as swimming about the flagg Refferendom. I mean when it came up, all the designs that came out, I didn't really fency any of them. I really like to say we've got but I think the only difference we could probably do to it is either put a Kiwi on it or the corow to make it, you know, New Zealand and Mary well Paquira Mary or English Mary. Yeah.

Yeah, I sometimes I'm just thinking of flags that have flags with the Union. Jack and something else I reckon they always look a bit bitsy.

Yeah, I mean, as I said, yeah, I'm very happy for I mean one of the main regions that Grismine game position. People get confused for the new zoom fag and you show you played, Yes, yeah, you're showing flags union jack and six stars where the union jack and five ridge stars.

Yes, just look at all the flags that got the ones that still include the union jack. Yeah. This is the Hawaii I think it's the Hawaiian flag.

Hawaii straight, yeah, Hawaii.

Yeah, Falkland, Falklands. The Cook Islands kind of has a flag and a crest that.

Looks like the Fijis got his.

Fiji. Yes, Fiji's got the crest and the union jack, which looks a bit clunky to me, so does the Newaiian one. Is just it's interesting union jacks has got stars. That's actually quite good, the Newaiian one, the island. But they all the sort of countries that are tex havens, like the can and that year.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's that's that is my viewing.

I mean, yeah, that's good, and I didn't.

Really like any of them. The only thing that can make it so that the Marora's not, but you know, the natives of new generally be heavy would be put a kiwi or the coral leaf on it, or or even the silver fin, just to make it stand out.

Interesting. In the Wikipedia page, it's got the the way people voted and according to I'll just see where the there are details. Yeah, so it's a very confusing. So I tried to say something didn't really come out, but there is. You can see according to whether the moldiest seats or other seats, how people voted on the flag referendum.

Yeah, Hey, Marcus. Good evening.

Good evening here those flags.

Yeah, what a time there was. Hey look I reckon, I reckon, but hey, I reckon. One of the coolest things that came out of that was that labe the key.

We loved it.

Did you hear the story behind that? The kid explained today. I think it was eight year old, and he explained it along the line. So he said, the key We doesn't want a new flag. So he's developed laser out of his eyeballs and he's shooting.

At the bottom of the new flag. So when he's sort of aiming down there, and that's sort of what it represents that he he didn't want any new flag kind of thing. I thought that was hilarious. So I just it wasn't an option obviously because it.

Was a bit too inventive.

But hey, I got to say to you, Josh, and this is important. It was designed by a woman, Lucy Gray.

Oh.

I don't know if it was a girl or an adult, but that's what it says on Wikipedia. The laser key We flag, originally titled Fire the Laser, was designed in twenty fifteen by Lucy Gray. She produced the design during an evening inspired by the many Dearly Animals in Australia took a key wei icon and turned it into a dearly animal. She stated she was uninspired by the designs is they didn't derive much meaning for her.

Okay, it doesn't say age or anything.

Maybe it says a character.

She says, I believe my design is so powerful it does not need to be discussed.

A pretty good but I you know, I voted for our just infect and the reason why I've done that is not only the other one sent her, but like, I think they were looking for perfection.

They were cold and they were just just good design is good design. You can't just do it on your laptop of an evening.

I do think there are two things that need to be on there and channel, and I had done my own design anyway, just for fun back then, because we're all like playing around. But the silver fern and the southern cross, I think they need to be on there. So but as the color goes, I'm not sure, Like because I was thinking, wouldn't a black flag with a white soil fern with white stars look cool? And then I thought, nah, actually I don't know sure allowed to have a black flag?

Gay.

I think there's a bit some rules around it. I don't know.

I don't know. There are always interesting enough, and you'll find this interesting, Josh. During the Russian invasion of the Ukraine, right yes, oh like right now? Yeah, well three years ago, whatever they happened. During the Russian vasion of the Ukraine, the laser ki We flag was used as a symbol by volunteer soldiers from New Zealand. I presume they're fighting for Ukraine, so they fought under that flag.

Oh wow, Hey, that's interesting.

That's pretty powerful. We have gone to check GPT for another flag.

Dad.

It's not even a flag shape, is it? Could you asking to be? Because I quite like it, I say, would you make it a flag shape? Idiots? Tell them where I'm well, I don't mind a flag with orange, I mean where they think orange was good at because they get and then ask them to explain it. Idiots, it's not tell them it's not idiot hour. By the way, maybe it might be ten away from nine. Enjoying the discussion even and enjoying more. What chet GPT comes up with.

Welcome, hello Marcus.

No, my.

As far as the flag's concerned, as long as we're a member of the Commonwealth, I don't know that technically we're in a position to change the flag, but if we became a republic, we'd have to have a new flag anyway.

I think there's a lot of countries in the Commonwealth that don't have the Union jack, like Canada and stuff.

No, but we have at the moment of a British connection on our flag. Yes, and so that it gets quite complicated. Plus from the government point of view, anything official papers and that have the flag on it all has to be changed, yes, and the cost is phenomenal.

Well, it's not a problem.

And I think that if you look up Wikipedia, there's a key there and if my recollection's correct, he was the one that designed the stars and stripes and I think that John Key was on an ego trip.

Sorrytival, hang the moment you've broken bad what we're saying about the stars and stripes.

There was a person with a surname of Key K e Y and that would be an ego trip for John Key at that particular time, because I found it very difficult that he was not prepared to be supportive of Pike River. But at the same time, all that money was spent on the flag issue that went nowhere.

Well, he didn't intend it to go no where. He intended to have a referenced them. It was for the people, if you did, them to choose what they wanted to do.

I actually think it was an ego trip for him to get into the history books.

Okay, well, I mean, what's prime minister. It's a pretty important position. And if you I mean the prisoner of John Key was he didn't change enough things, didn't mix it up enough. At least he had to go with the flag. What's that? We've got the new Ratio flag from jet G P t I AI. I check it up on check it up on Facebook and ask what people think I mean could do that? Do they say? Why would they say? What it means ah was I say, the orange means honestly, stand down. That's why orange orange

If you actually study both flags of ours in Australia, they are a little bit different. So we all know we got They got six a week and we got four. But I reckon what they should we should have our prime ministers have a bit of a chap of their prime minister over there and say you change your Union jet to white and we'll keep the red and we'll have it still keep our white stars. And they change all these, change all these to white.

But if you go to change, you're going to change. You may as well change properly.

Mate.

You may as well get something that's a bit smarter so people take notice of us around the nak Gee, what a knockout flag run that dud that we've got currently. I thought you'd be very much in favor of change, Peter. I thought you're a go get a guy. I thought you're the sort of guy that you know gets up in the morning and goes out there and changes the world for the good. I thought you'd want something striking, But you look.

At the flag. The stars they have, they starts are slightly different from ours we have, like we have five points.

Okay, okay, so you like what you like what we've got.

In some ways, I think there should be something on the like there's some of the previous schooler said, put a kiwi in there. And I don't think.

I don't think people tend to have animals on their flags.

Or something. When we got to think, because our country we have two different sort of h people here, you could say, so something represents both of us, like we in you know, in the Mary side of it, in the and the and the and we side of it, and like the fucking outside of it. You know, something we have that we get a little bit on both of the flags.

You look at some countries like Trinidad and Tobesque, Tabsco the just like just a red rectangle with black slash through it looks fantastic. Or Jamaica you were seeing there at the Olympics, Usain Bolt. You know it's just a a yellow cross with black and green in the corners. Looks fantastic.

Yeah, it's something something a bit of a combined flag because we're thinking of both. I want it because of our country. We had that little bit of you know, they they want a bit on the of them and we want a bit of ours on there. So it's sort of like a bit more neutral, so not just all a one sided flag.

Do you know any countries that have animals on their flag?

Wow? Not right, they haven't studied all the flags. No, you're probably right. Yeah, But then again, our key is a symbol like in the walls or the aircraft head the sometime they see nothing bad of that. It's a symbol of the New Zealands of Kiwi Boo.

I think American Samow has the eagle.

Yeah, I was saying, think they got the eagle. What's the difference between symbols of the Kiwi bird? I regon it should be somewhere on the I don't think.

I don't think we call it the Kiwi bird. Oh you got to call it the Kiwi bird.

Yeah, okay, yep, yeah, I reckon.

It's a bit of a change. But he wouldn't do any harm.

The key we bird. I think the Boutan flag has a dragon.

Heah or no, or maybe not it's a bit hard. You want to go too far like it may be a lizard or something on that and a bit of a key when a lizard or.

Something keywien a lizard, oh no or something beau, I key in a lizard cheap asp and you're the in the famous home of the lizard normally with the lizards of people Germans. I shouldn't say that. I forget who the last guy is smuggling gecko out of the country. But they come and get them in numbers, don't they, those harlequin ones? Padam Oh, we've got an angry reaction to the flag on Facebook. We've posted the one from chat a b Sea on there and someone's furious. They're

Hello Marcus. Good to hear from him. Yes, I've got two points. I think we should have had civil fern on a flag, because if we go over seas or anywhere where New Zealand's are fought, their graveyards have always got a civil fern on them, and I think that would be market on a flag.

Hang on, Ross. We had the chance for silver fern and people didn't want it.

I know that. I know that, so I don't understand why. Anyway, it doesn't matter now it's too late. The other point is you watch a flag, New Zealand flag or Australian flag. It was a fluttering you don't know which was which, so you know, it wouldn't be nice to definitely something New Zealand. So everybody's little they need.

But looking at the great flags of the world, they're not necessarily symbolizing. They don't necessarily necessarily have things from the country on them. They're more often about just a striking bit of design. Like if you look at Japan with the rising sun, if you look at America with the stars and stripes, they're not really you know, they haven't got a bison. They haven't got a bison on it, or haven't got a bond side tree on it, have they?

Mate? But why do our graveyards or in Europe on their grave side?

It's a different thing. That's a symbol that that's a symbol from the war that people have used that they use to put on graves and probably different countries.

Part and that New Zealand.

Yeah, but different different countries put different things on their graves. They don't then think on our grave it must be on our flag as well. That's not a slam dunk that connection.

Okay, mate, what about what about a New Zealand Australia flair unless you understand one flair, I mean one little spar star on it is. That's the difference between two countries. And to me in a strutter, you don't know who's what country it is.

Would you be a fan if we became part of Australia?

No, mate, don't do that to me.

I don't think you didn't think you would be ru Sorry, shouldn't tease you? Two lines free if you want to come through Flag Wednesday. I'm looking at a flag now on the cycling. Who's that well? I can't see if she's Australian. Who's a Williston in the cycling that's on the TV? You know she's Australian. Just a little flags up there. I can't see where she's from. Good evening, Shirley.

Good evening, Marcus. Now I want you to picture this, or if you're sitting down with a pen and paper, I want you to draw something. I'm very very proud of it. My husband back in end of two and fifteen, twenty and sixteen, he designed a flag. Wow, and now draw a square flag and this will please the man that just spoke. And then draw from the bottom left to the top right a diagonal line right across it. The top diagonal is blue with four red stars.

Surely, I'm just struggling with your radio because it's coming and I'm getting into it.

Right, it's off now. So the top is blue with four red stars. The bottom diagonal part is green, and there's a brown kiwi in the bottom right hand corner. Going across the diagonal line from the bottom left to the top right is a silver fern. And we are so proud of what we've called it our Jarden flag. People going past when I fly it on spiritual days, birthdays and things like that, people going past actually come in and say, what a fantastic flag.

What is it?

Wow?

So can I just tell you the wee verse I made up for it?

Oh no, I'm not having a poem. But why is it called the Jardine Flag.

Well, I just want to explain it. It's not a poem. It's explaining it.

Oh yeah, can you send an image to us of it?

Yeah, But I just want to tell the people the flag was meaning that Ellen designed with pride and the reasons for each emblem. He will surely tell you why the blue is for the beautiful skies that we're in New Zealand, sheer and the greenest for our greenland for which we love and care. The stars pattern represents the asterism with the constellation of trucks. The Southern Cross is

Did you get one made?

I had it made, and I had it made from the flagplace in BETTONI and I've given one to our sons to fly from their flagpole, and one of the Allen's cousins has bought one for their flag pole. And as I say, it just gets so much comments when I fly it.

And what was the cost getting that flag? Made there.

Surely I got it made in the proper, proper flag stuff. Four hundred and twenty five dollars.

Okay, can I any of you? Is your husband a designer?

No?

My husband passed away six years ago. He just sat doodling one day and what have you? And I sed, Oh that's great. Why don't we put it in the competitions? Oh no, no, I don't do that. And I wished I jolly willhead it because I'll tell you what it would have been one.

Of the tops.

Really is it that good?

I'm going to Can I mail it to you?

Of course you can have you got email?

Yes, okay, what would it?

Well?

How would I email? What's your email?

Marcus m A c U s at, which is the A with a circle around yep used talk Z b yeap dot co dot nz.

Dot co dot nz.

I'll do that.

Now and people stop and say, wow, that should have been our flag.

Absolutely yeah. And they come into the door and they say what's that? Because I've got about forty five leagues I fly and each in our neighborhood, people going past or talk about the flags, and I say to them, what's your birthday and what's your nationality and I put it in my diary and on that day I fly their flag.

Do you look Do you look for people that look of a different nationality?

No, I just look for people that talk to me as I'm in the garden and going past and display the different flegs. I think I've got the New Zealand one up three times this week for different people.

But they like it.

They just get a kick out of it.

Brilliant. Okay, Shelly, thank you for that. I appreciate. I look forward to seeing that. Marcus. If people cannot tell the difference between the Australians in the flag, they're not reobserve it. White stars for austran red stars views endly. Well, that's not quite rightly. Because I'm looking at TV screen across the other side of the room and it's got the cyclist what country they're from. It's impossible to tell because often the flag just comes up as a symbol

Yeah.

A pretty interesting article in one of the papers the other days about all the smaller towns that have been gutted of all the young people as they move overseas. Marcus, I feel we have missed an opportunity the last referendum. Everyone was so patientate flying the new flag. I think the country would have gotten behind a new design and we had a chance to build some real national pride. Those who putting the old flag flew these as well

Markets still have the funfects that the film A firm that was on the referendum flag if you want to know, now on the Walk of Fame behind the star that's on every every park now for famous new Xylders. I contacted Kyle Lockwood, who actually designed it, and he gave me the copyright free because I had a copyright issue with the Hollywood Walk of Fame and they wanted fifty thousand a year because they have a copyright for every five pointed object in the world on the ground.

That's amazing.

Yes, that was a bit of a bit of a sort of that was back in two thousand and thirteen that I've got. They've got the letter to say stop and decease from So we talked about this and then they will negotiate with your make it twenty thirty five thousand US a year, Yeah, a year. This is a year. This is just fifty or twenty five thousand a year to have it down. They said they have rights to worldwide from a company called Icon Lawyer's Icon Business.

Oh, you would get messed up with them. It's been a fortune loyals wouldn't lawyers good time?

So we protected Kyle he Y all means he gave me the copyright for free. So new it's behind the star. It's an eight object, a lot of facts, and so they sent me a letter saying they cease and assist. But that's silver fern is now. Times are there for good if anyone's interested in having a look at it.

Yeah, okay, this is the one that audio work, isn't it. It seems to lend itself mainly country music people. Is that right?

No, it's all entertainment.

It covers well like Susan prints, Ray Wolf, like you, Dennis Marsh Yeah, okay, great Bartlett.

We've got You've also got Dragon, Mark William's, Larry Morris, Tom Sharplin, and we've got more coming up. We've got Freckie Stevens coming up.

You got Lord, you got Lord not Huid.

Very hard to get a hold of. Get the thin brothers on either really you can get the top twin They said no, Top Twin said.

No, you got described.

No, But I've got a list of about fifty still put down. We've got twenty twenty five dowsa and we've got that fifteenth year anniversary in July nineteenth.

Is it much work to do it?

Yeah, it's a lot of work.

Is it?

What a lot of money we getting people to do it?

Or no?

Well it's all free for them.

Its costs means and put it all together in so Gary?

Are you sort of you've got permission of that audio work? You could have got as much foot space as you want there, is it right?

That's correct. I got a permission from the council. Had I had a distupit fim. It took me six years to get it, get it sorted. But it's been a bit of a jeffit journey for sure. But I'm so determined to get you know, these famous people that have made such a big influence. You've even got the flood of the concourse with with the guys who got oscars and and all sorts of and there's so many I've got set out contact to Sam Neil. He said, he wasn't famous enough yet.

Which was so you have you got the flight of the Concord guys, not yet.

No, I'm working on them. That The thing is to get there, to get their contact. That's the hardest thing because manages to go through and or people won't give his numbers or But I'd love to get Jason gunned down as well. I think Jackson has done an amazing job throughout the years. Yeah, and it's even like when you look at Peter Peter Montgomery with a sailing, you know, phenomenal what he's done.

I think.

I think Jason Gunner is on your list.

And he's on my list, but it's hard to get ahold of us. Try to contact himself if you're listening.

But has he got a start? Has he got a star?

No?

No, no, I guess no, okay, now, oh, good luck with there, Gary, thank you, There we go. Marcus, some of your listens don't realize that the Kiwi birdhers from Australia. I don't know if that's necessarily true, Marcus Francis Douglas Memoral College. But you Plymouth boys the annual First fifteen Rugby Exchange for the first time, so it's twenty fourteen ten eight with a late conversion to win it. Jubilation at the gully on a glorious day. Cheers Bruce, Bruce.

That?

Would you call it a flower? I guess you wouldn't, But yeah, there we go. That's something. I think there are some flags. Yeah, I just wish we've got to get I wish we've got it out of the Silver Fern and the Southern Cross because here, as I say, the Southern crosses. The Southern Cross is only unique if you're in the Southern hemisphere. It's not that special. I mean, I don't want to disparage it. But now, train news, what can I tell you about? This is a good story. Actually.

Now you're on about ten years since we've had to go at changing the flag.

Yes, okay.

Now one of the options that you've been promoting is putting the silver fern on the flag.

No, I'm not promoting that. I've always been opposed to that.

You're opposed to that, so am I, and I'll tell you why.

Great like your passion.

In the early nineteen sixties, when the Air Force changed their roundel and they put a silverfern in the center of the round all, we became the butt of jokes of all the other air forces because we were flying the white feather.

Oh yes, okay, like surrender.

Yes exactly.

So ten years ago I was there against putting the selver fern on our national flag. I don't care. I look quite like it as a sports flag, but not on our national flag.

I never in all my debates ten years ago, I never heard someone saying it was the white feather of surrender. But I quite like that.

Yeah, that's it. It was only on our aircraft for probably six months or nine months, and we changed it to m Z and then to the Kiwi. Were you someone and that's when the Kiwi started to fly?

Were you involved in that? Were you involved in the services.

I was on the Air Force for a long time.

Oh, good on you go you okay, that's excellent. Okay, Well, you know, I said I think that I think the silver fin looks terrible on a flag. I think it's some sort of like something you put on butter, not on a flag. It's like a march.

I agree with you.

It's a sports flag, not a male flag.

And I thought probably if those people on the pedal hadn't gone down that road, we might have got some better options. But they seem fixated with the silver fern.

Yeah.

Well yeah, I don't know why.

Thank you. Six to ten dB, it's Marcus welcome.

What was the timing they gave for Tower to Auckland.

By train two and a half hours double.

It it's two a half hours from Hamilton. Yes, so they're going to go from Tower longer to Hamilton in no time at all.

So I'm not sure if that's misreporting by stuff or if it's because I'm sure the Greens, if they're passionate about transport they would know their timing. But tell me something. Is there any way that you could go from Totonga to Auckland, not going via Hamilton?

No, No, that's the way the railway track goes. There's only one way between. The Chickens that have stomach can spy the neck. I'm just trying to I've got the slide rule out and I'm.

Just trying to sig other.

No.

I mean, if you're an eight hour a day worker, you're going to be on the You're going to be away from home. It's poor hours commuting each way. That's if the train doesn't get delayed.

Yeah.

Oh and trains, what about? What about it? Yeah, I'm just going to reread that to make sure I've read it right. The trip between Auckland and Totong it would take two and a half hours. So what I think becomes interesting if you talk about Auckland to toteng O via train, right, Yep, you could build new lines from the exit of the Kaimi tunnel. I meant all flat land,

So seventeen thousand nimbies are already stopping you doing that.

Yes, okay, I'm sorry.

But and.

Even if say they could do it in three hours, they can't. But say they could, you're still not going to get people out of their cars and onto a trade to do it in three hours. The Capital connection to Parmas the North once it leaves, why can I and all right, I'm talking ten years ago was virtually empty. Whilce I'm left the then you can count the people on two hands. And that was a train that would go Parmised North to Wellington until and a half hours,

The question I have asked tonight to start the show. It's ten years since we attempted to change our flag. Do you have an appetite to try and change the flag again? Is it worth persevering with or was that just a once in a lifetime chance and the good will is gone. Are people as passionate about a new flag as they were ten years ago? It's bound to crop up the next couple of years someone will say, let's change the flag. In fact, I have just done.

Yeah, hi Marcus. Why should be another flag debate? You know, we had a referendum and the ones who wanted to change the at last, So why should there be another one? You know, we're we've got a flag, you know, and the majority of people are young people actually devoted to keep it. It was the young that actually the numbers up so that we're SAG would stay.

So are you are you involved in that?

And what I just voted and I voted to keep it. I voted for Winston Peter's fife. He doesn't want to change it. He knows what he's talking about. We don't know. You don't need to change the flag just because it's of the Union.

There's a fee bit of appetite for it from the callers I've spoken to. Okay, but just with your just with your thoughts about the young people voted to save it. Yeah right, yeah, I'm just looking at where did you get those figures?

From.

I think it was just in the paper, just you know, the breakdown of the numbers. And I mean, you think I'm talking to it.

You think it was.

Yeah, but even decided that, you.

Know what, No, no, but I I just want to check that because you said it was the young people voted for status quo.

Yes, but yeah, and I have I have never.

Seen that anywhere. Okay, all right, well so I just wonder where you got that from.

Well, I talked to you know, I think it was in the paper, in the paper after the Great Debate.

Do you think it was?

It was in the paper, Yeah, and there was I remember talking to a guy even in his forties in the Ta B and Victorias Street while it was going on, and I was either coming up to counting or just after, and he said, he said, and we're talking about the flag and he said he want he wanted to change it, but he just didn't liked the messenger John Kiev as his daughter said he would be in twenties. Leave it a line. It's by fag. I've grown up with it.

So yeah, so what would be your opposition to it? Would it be the cost or would it be.

What there's just it's just unnecessary. I love our flag. Nothing wrong with it, you know, it's just if was around that time also having a burger and the Burger King, and that used to a little boutiqu one that used to be where the cinema complexes and just up from the civic and there was a a a flower shop just there with the and had flags around. It's you know, the business and it had a South South sorry South

If it wasn't going to be the flag we've got, now, what would you.

Like it to be? But there's our flag now, Marcus, there's no I just want it's our flag.

Things things change, the currency changes, and things change changes.

The enemy, Marcus, change is the enemy of all societies, all cultures or.

I don't know if that makes any sense. And if the slaves would have thought that was I don't know if the slaves thought that was a good thing.

Oh, everyone's had slaves goes way back millions of years, every continent ere and they're still going. So nothing, nothing's going to change regarding that.

Will you say change? You say change is bad. I'm saying the I mean that the freed slaves wouldn't necessarily thought the end of slavery was a bad thing. They probably thought it was a good thing.

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but I mean, I'll only speak obviously for when you.

Spoke about the people at Burg about they're new to New Zealand, are you someone that was new to New Zealand.

Then I was born here, race here, so you know, I know my great grandparents, so three or four generations, and so I'm not sure what the indigenous people think, Mario. I mean, they've got their own flag, whether they would prefer their flag to beat the New Zealand flag. But I like our I like our flag and it's not going to change, I hope.

Okay, nice to hear from you, Terry, Thank you, George, Marcus. Good evening, Marcus.

I was thinking about the flag. I'm actually during the during the Rifferringdom last time, I was actually, for some reason, I was quite obsessed with the riff of the red Peak.

Well, and that came from nowhere and it looks it looked great, but I don't like it now.

Yeah, no, I kind of get this.

I know what you mean.

I think maybe if the top parts are the same color, it would be a bit more tolerable. But also I think if we've chosen it, you wouldn't think twice about it.

There's blue well.

I just.

So for those who know the Red Peak, there's a red triangle in the middle of the bottom and there's a white stripe and the top corners. One's red, ones.

Blue, and I think maybe that's where they went wrong.

It's a bit two ones, the mountain ones the sky. Yeah, I think I might dislike it quite strongly now.

Yeah, yeah, you think you'd be regretting it?

Yeah?

Do you think we would have just got used to it?

I think it was a real product of its time and looking you know, true, And I think there are people that are designers that you know, there are great designers that know that know what something that's going to test to stand the test of times. And I think even they thought the red peak, but when they hated the silver fern ones but also thought the red peak was probably a bit questionable.

Yeah.

Yeah, the silver the silver fern is just it's trite. A lot of our symbols. I'm tired of them, for sure. I don't know. I don't know what you do about it. I was having an idea if we did do another vote, you do the design and black and white, and then you get to choose three colors below, and then you just combine the two votes together and boom, so everyone, maybe you don't get the design you want, but maybe you get your colors. If we had to do it.

Your people.

Yeah, do you think do you think often about changing it?

I can't say. But when i'm watching you know, when I'm watching the cycling and it's you know, it's like two pixels high and two pixels white, I can definitely see the floor. But I live in Australia. No one hears thinking about changing their flag. They're not worried that they looks like our flag.

Tell you that much, but yeah, that happens from time to time, and they, I mean, yeah, Albernize has been been right to be quiet about the republic because ify so often you get a prime minister like Keating he was a mad Republican. I'm not mad republic. It's a good idea, but you know, it's tough to get across the line, isn't it.

Yeah.

I don't even think they've it's not even crossing their minds. Like, no one's talking.

No one's talking about it now, are they not?

Even if anyone even meets in the flag. They yeah, they're not worried.

Okay, nice to talk, thanks you. No one's mentioning becoming a republic. That'll happen too. They always talk about that in our lifetime. But no one's going on about that. Now that'll be good for talk back. Yeah, get in touch. Marcus Still twelve the age old Christians. What she said? Winston Peters voted for him twice. He doesn't want the flag change. Yeah, well goodness to this caller. Young New Zealand is represented by a guy in his forties in the tab tell me you voted in New Zealand first,

They're talking about trains and stuffay New Zealand and they want to go sorry, and they want to go to Tower to Aukland and stuff like that, but we can only go from Mappy to Gisbone because they've got washed there years ago. I don't think New Zealand keys too much.

Betans Well, I guess they might care about it if they get stuck in grid looking the cars aren't going anywhere, which seems to be happening in par longer because it's jam packed most of the time. It seems everyone. Every time I talk to people there, they say driving around there is a nightmare.

You haven't heard about that.

So it must get to a stage you think, actually, I can't we bother go to Auckland. I'll get the train.

Well, I live in Wakefield and Nelson and one hundred years ago there was a train trick. But there's no transmit the south, there's nothing, or there's the main trunk line, they call it the main truck, but you can't go from city to city or anywhere like that. A geographical problem with New zealand's there's too mountains.

Yeah, it's but if you look at the example of Auckland and Hamilton and to Auckland's the biggest city, Hamilton's grow So those three places are growing incredibly quickly and they've got a huge population.

And I don't really care about it, or I don't care about or called Hamilton and terro No.

But that's what we are talking because the Greens have proposed because there's a train now that goes Auckland to Hamilton and now they're proposing to get that to go to totong as well.

So is that going to take fifteen years to do that? Because things are so slow in New Zealand it takes forever to do anything.

Well, you don't care about it, but it's going to take two years because if they get the go ahead, because the line is already there, obviously freight all goes out of the port of Todonger, so it's a very busy train line for freight.

But the problem with New Zealand most of our train lines, if you see, you know a lot about trains, is only we haven't got two through train tracks beside each other. It's just one track.

Well, there are passing loops and I think they're trying to get that between into Auckland. Now there's going to be two lines. So the passenger trains have a designated line as well.

Okay, okay, So I mean.

The trum pet it's out was quick. Obviously there'd be more priority for the passengers because they're in more of a hurry than the containers of stuff that people have brought from demo.

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

True.

As far as the whole Nelson trained thing, that was always I don't even know where they are planning to go with those trains, but it was a bit of a pie It was a bit of a pie in the sky plan, wasn't it.

Yeah.

I don't know, I don't know. I don't even know how they're going to connect with the main network.

You'll send the New Zealand might find.

That you're quite negative at the moment, are you.

Oh, I know everything's been canceled and stopped and you can't even hop on a train from making Warrington, you know, and everyone used to use it years ago. But everyone's got cows, that's right. Yeah, so those caws because it's quicker, more efficient and it's better.

Anyway, Maybe maybe people will lose their love of cars. Maybe be a situation because who knows what's going to happen in twenty years time.

Oh no, people love their cars. Cars of everyone gets rich. The majority of people in New Zealand live in the country, all of the cities.

But remember also too, the our pictures that are too old to drive don't want to drive. There are children that can't drive. There are people that disabled that can't drive as well, So it's a big and tourists that don't want to drive in New Zealand because they're not used to drive on the wrong side of the road. So there are a large number of people, a large minority that driving doesn't work for.

Yeah, and there's also another thing. The other problem is New Zealand the bus service is not very good.

Where was the last time you caught a passenger bus?

Oh?

I get the.

Electric passes and make TN all the time together? Nelson, Yeah, sure, yeah, but there's one there's one thing in New Zealand that's missing. Every single airport in New Zealand, you cannot get a train to go to the city center. Crazy and that is crazy because back in nineteen eighty seven, eighty eight you can get off, you can get a heath Row get we get on the train and go boom you go. In the New Zealand, it's it's impossible. Yeah, and that's what New Zealand needs. They need to get rail. Looks

I think there's a lot of people cover these pie the Skuydeisin. You need to hear from them again.

Because New Zealand ducts them and they the saying over, well.

There's nothing wrong with I mean, private enterprise could do a gondos if they're going to work out, couldn't they.

Are not gondles not. I'm talking about pylons for fighting Japan and trying on those places they have the rail players go on top on motorways well.

Like a monorail. Yeah, okay, thank you. I don't think monor whales even work. This is about when someone mentioned the mon around the Simpsons. It seems to where people go quite quickly after that one. Welcome on him as Marcus Hittle midnight, your negative guy that one day. But they had some good ideas. Good evening, Jacques, it's Marcus welcome.

And a Marcus Hi, Jacques, how are you good?

Thank you yourself.

You're not bad?

Not bad?

Well so, I just.

As also a bit of passion in rugby. I like a lot of New Zealand people. And I mean I was a little bit sad, to be honest. I mean I got in it quick and thought that the stream marksters all Blacks at the park or fell out in two minutes, and you know, a bide to the all Blacks website and like, okay, let's get it in there first, and they're still think it's available, and it's just it's quite amazing that it's not sold out in two minutes.

To be honest, Jack, you've got a terrible phone line and you need to let me talk as well, because if you've seen some things. When is the match?

It's a sixth of sixth of September?

Okay, can you hear me now?

Yeah?

Much better? How many tests are they here for? Is it who do to Auckland Hamilton?

It's Auckland and Willington nothink?

Has it any talk of the caliber of the team they've seen, because I know where I am up in Dunedin there was a French team coming, but they've seen this sitting a B team, so I have zero interest. Is it going to be the it? Is it going to be a top out? Is it going to be the top South African team?

Well?

The thing is I'm not one hundred percent sure. But it's not just before the World Cup. So what I'm thinking as is Russi Rasmus got a different plan at the moment. Is like not love the past where they prepared for the World Cup, but they want to win. They want to hi win percentage of Test matches yep, so what I like god feeling is that they are going to send their best team and they're going to break the All Backs record of beating them.

On in the past.

Okay, so that's a pinnacle match. It's the even part to get rid of that. It's the best, it's the world. Are they successive world champs? So they went to in a row?

Yeah?

Yes, yes for this Okay, Okay, Now I think you think how much your tickets?

By the way, well I bought a ticket for ninety dollars.

It is surprising because you think that would be the pinnacle rugby match in New Zealand's biggest city. But I will ask you one thing, Jacques, Yes, do you think people prefer watching it at home? Now they've all got these giant TV screens? I mean, the coverage is so good? Is it better to watch the game at home because you can see more?

You know?

I It's absolutely true. I think, like I mentioned before, it's like, you know, if I hear that the screen box are playing the All Blacks in the New Zealand or in South Africa, I'm I'm gonna try my best, you know too, especially at Innand Park, the world top team. I guess I'm a bit more invested because I'm South African, I guess. And it's not been day great for the New Jell fans with the love of rugby anymore. But I mean maybe I'm just with more investment in this game.

Yeah, no, it's a great I think you make an extremely good point is to come in apart from the British Lions, would be another match that people would get up for because of a history there. To me, that's the pinnacle. Absolutely, I'm really surprised you will talk more about that, Thank you. Why wouldn't it sell out?

How long is it?

How long a tickets beyond sale?

For Jacques Well, I think they started on the if you if you apply to the All Blacks dot com it started on the second or the third, and then I think I went to the public on sale on the Semmer something on that. But I'm just very very yeah, ye.

I am too, because certainly you think they would they would say out overnight, Edison, it's Marcus welcome. Hello, Yeah, Hi, it's Marcus. Good evening.

Hey, it's Edison.

How are you think I am calling?

And regarding the infrastructure. Yeah, a topic am and information. I just thought i'd am Yeah, I guess say that the Greens proposal for the trains. I'm currently driving back from Auckland to Tylan. I do the trip twice a week. A commute U and a train would be lovely.

But the problem that.

New Zealand has is infrastructures. I work around the industry and delivery capability is something New Zealand lack. So we own attract the offical capital to be able to achieve a lot of these things. I guess it's a nice idea a but just well we haven't proven at all, and that that infrastructure something kind of what are that highlight a lot of it that recently happened where no activity was done that it's not duetial next year in June and government will change and start the whole thing again.

If that makes sense, you would know you infrastructure would be required.

Well, you can't have their train line, especially with the okudaport coming at and am entinally building that. You'd be optimistic if you could run multiple trains and commutes at the same time. You've moved in that much freight to the.

Port, well they'd be passing send afraid. The only infrastructure talking about is the you've got to build passenger platforms at the three stations in between tot On because trains did go there till two thousand and one. Yeah, so the infrastructure, I mean the rails are largely there.

Yeah, but you don't it's a forty minute how a commute with the current time frames coming through like it's a very driveable commute for kiwis. So you get some transport, but you don't really have the commutable Like you've got definitely a location of living. I am purvis at Hamilton and you could commute there the other way, but there's not real a large amount of traffic coming through there.

Yeah, but I mean, you know the way the growth is going, give it ten years. You've got a plan nice to hear from. You keep those texts coming through if you've got anything to add. Just where people are with the whole flag thing. I only mentioned because it's been ten years and no one's mentioned it since I'm thinking, well, actually, what's the situation there? Are you too scared of change?

Were there?

Probably I didn't go and see it like a train in a movie. But yes, I'm joking. I realized that weren't trained in the Hobbits. They don't go all sort of good. He thought they were trained in the Hobbit, wasn't, idiot? Because these days you can't also say anything out to humor because people take a serious Oh yeah, idiot, thought there were trains in the Hobbit.

Choo choo ah.

That's just me. I'm not quite sure what Jacques was on about. It seems like that rugby match has sold out. I took him at a his word. But yeah, it sold out two days ago, did it, And that's when the post was made. So that's the situation there. Hey, the other thing on a railway and Asia just because someone's texted through that. There is a brand new inland port proposed for Milton which is going to be a big deal. So it's a private enterprise group that's doing it.

Here you go, Matte. Why would we want to change your flag last time? Richie mccaur and John Ky cost the taxpad twenty six million dollars as a country in that good a position that we get will probably cost us forty million there.

Yes, so, but as time goes As time goes on, will become more. There'll be less than less countries with the Union jack on it, and our will make us look kind of backward.

We can't afford to have a referendum, and there's I'm sure there's more important things to be wearing about there than changing their flag.

But but but we're had a democracy. We can change all sorts of things. We have those those right, I don't know what this ability that the thing is, Oh, there's more important things.

If we don't have the money, have you have? You know, it's all doom and gloom every time we've got no money for doctor's, no money for heal, no money.

Yes, but if you look at the amounts that are talked about there in the billions, it would be tight. I mean, it's hard to argue with what you're saying, but I'm sure about the You can say that about the people getting the pension when they're when they've got billions of dollars in the bank as well couldn't you. Well, yeah, exactly. So, so there's huge amounts of money that are going to people that's sacred that you can't touch.

So many of those politicians in parliament.

It should be.

Means tested exactly, cheers the guy by.

But you can do other stuff. I mean, we can't just we can't just do nothing if there's things that people want to do. I don't know why it costs so much either, by the way, I think she'll use use computers and things to make it cheap. We just go with the because the process was cumbersome and clumsy and alienated a lot of people because involved two different votes, which I think was expensive. They should have just had the Well who knows. Anyway, I appreciate you input there, Gary,

Kevin Marcus here, when toron Ken had had the referendum on the flag, I did one, and you will know you probably written those that overseas, all our veteran soles that have been buried over there have got a sort of fin or a black fern on their edstones, et cetera. And anyway, I gave her one of our local MP photograph of it our flag and all I did was put a silver fern underneath the Union jack, and I recommend it is all we need on our flag.

So tell me, because that's on the graves right of our fallen. Does any other flag in the world have the symbol the same symbol on their flags on their war graves?

Not that I would be aware, no, because a lot of.

People say that, But I can't really work out why that means it would be on Are you saying that the people? Because it's like a symbol, isn't it.

It is, it's a.

Symbol, but okay, it's a black line, so I don't I'm sure it's not a white one. But the thing is you have Australia. It gets me when the rugby matches and they're playing based national means and they're flying both our flag and here's the Australian one fame as ours, except I've got the big star underneath the Union jack, and I sort of thinking, oh, wouldn't that be wonderful. I've seen people fly and our flag with the many years ago, with the silver fanner underneath the Union jack.

Yeah, and that's.

I'm not I'm not, just so you know where I'm coming from, Kevin. I'm not a fan of that. And I reckon, if we hadn't got if we hadn't got fixated with you with the silver foond, we would have had a new flag. But three of them had the silver foon and they just the silver foon didn't look good on the flag.

I didn't think, Well, I could always see the mary to make us lot different from Australia, because I've heard so many times that overseas people have taken our flag is the Australian flag as well.

So you're still in favor of changing it then, just the silver that's all.

That's all, yes, absolutely, just to be different from Australia, I think the best.

Thing about that? How about you get chet GPT to do a flag for US and feturing a road code and think they got anything better with that? Puddon? Oh how many can you can? You only do it twice a day? Flip? They're playing hard to get, aren't they? How much will it cost if you paid for it? Apparently a Danish company has been selling can cheeseburger since the early two thousandths. It's a good idea, isn't it? Take it tramping a can cheeseburger. My name is Marcus Wilk.

Now?

He's meeting the Syrian president and says lifting sanctions gives the country chance of greatness? There we go, Oh do cardgoing and playing with the kids?

Fuck?

What's that game? Five crowns? It's quite good. It's one of the few games I can beat them at. If you want to give that one a go. It's got like five suits. They say it's like Rummy Cub. Well, I've never played Rummy Cub. I don't know whether it's like it or not. But yep, that's happening it till twelve. Good evening, Kelvin.

Good evening to you, Marcus. How's it going down there in the cold South.

It's been quite mild, but you might get cold to night, so I'm hoping here we go.

Yeah, I rung about the New Zealand flag. Now, first of all, I haven't heard anybody call it by its correct name. Everyone seems to call us the Union Jack, but it's real name, its proper name, is actually the Union Union Flag.

Okay.

And that's the pattern. How when you're looking at the New Zealand flag and the flag poles on the left side of it, the very top star and the left hand star are both the same size. The right hands star is the smallest and the bottom star is the largest. So I thought you'd lot to know that maybe, And when people who can't see the difference in Australia and the New Zealand flag. My goodness. Now, the Australian flag six white stars. The New Zealand flag is four red

So the bottom star is the bigger one, is it?

Yep? Bottom one is the biggest one. So when the flag, when you look at their flag and the poles on the left side of it, the top one, the top star and the left star are both the same size and right, the right hand side is the smallest and the bottom is the biggest.

How they thought about it is that because it looks good? Is that to reflect the brightness of the Southern cross in the sky?

I think you just said it. Yeah, okay, And a lot of those island flags might have the Union flag in the corner or whatever, and lots of those different stars and a circle or what gold stars whatever, they sort of representing the number of islands would make up their country.

It's right, yeah, sense islands.

It's got about fifteen I think it is here.

Yeah, and the cook line is amazing because they are miles apart. You wonder how they even managed to make it. Yeah, it's got fifteen white stars and circle.

You're quite right, Yeah, fifteen.

Yeah.

I remember when I was working with a chap from the Cook Islands and I was asking him what was the Cook Islands called originally before James Cook came along? And he said it never ever had a proper name.

Okay I nelready thought about that. Yeah, okay, No, I think.

We should do more thinking, James.

I like that.

I like I respond to James. Who do you think? How many countries have the Union jack in the corner?

Quite a few. That's a good answer, isn't it. Okay, even Haai who's got the Union flag in its corner. I like the idea of their country, and you can with your magic buttons you'll be able to look it up, or you might already know. I like that country with the flag and the machine gun on it.

Yeah.

I like the fact that you study flags from time to time.

I don't really study them, I just sort read a little bit something.

Do you remember what you voted for?

I voted for there was one there with the blue at the top, but I think the black.

But then, but then when it came down to the our current flag versus the pretender, did you vote for status quo?

Oh no, no, I'd never vote for the Union flag.

And okay, I don't know said you said, it's so pationate, but Mosambique that's got the gun.

I would never fight for our king either, Okay, good, are you going to fight for king and country? Just for the country?

Yeah I didn't, but yeah, but I voted for the current flag because just to tell them how awful those contenders were with the silver food. Thought they were all terrible.

Yeah, yeah, well the so called silver food. And I don't know how many countries, but there's lots, lots and lots and lots, probably another lots as well overseas which have silver ferns, So it's not just here and the n z or Nova Zelandia.

No.

I don't know why that people come fixated on that. No, although I don't think other countries have it as this. I think it's because we put it on the buttied the butter in the early days, didn't we in the butter boxes.

Yeah, the old Canada flag is good, I've always thought, and they apparently.

Did it very quickly too. It didn't take them along, It wasn't at I've.

Actually forgotten what the original one looked like.

Oh, it's terrible. Dog's breakfast like ours. Yeah, I think I think it was a union. I'll ever look at it for you, just so I cann't remind you.

Yeah, and remember what the Japanese flag used to look like, but no idea. Well it was a white flag with the round orange red sun with the rays.

That was quite good too, like that.

Yeah, but they had to get rid of that after w W two, the big one.

We should just ask if we could borrow the one. Oh terrible, the Canadian Yeah, terrible.

It was like it was just yeah, anyway, how about the Scottish flag then?

Love that.

That's fantastic, the blue with.

The white cross. Yes, I think it's a bad time. Well, they keep talking about it, Scotland becoming completely independent.

Of Well they've had a couple of votes and come quite close, but it looks like it hasn't kind of got the momentum.

But I'm looking forward to when you have your discussion in the near future, hopefully about whether we should have become a republic or not. But it's thickening to think of it. But yeah, we got so many knit with listeners out there. They ring up and they say, oh, yee, if we become a republic, we won't be in the Commonwealth, and.

I think in a discussion people just try and muddy the waters with misinformation.

Yeah, well, right now, there's at least I think it's fifty six, could be a couple more countries in the Commonwealth of Nations, not to be confused with the Commonwealth of Australia, but there's about fifty six or could be a couple more. And out of those there's about thirty five which are republics exactly, and about six six of them have got their own monarchies. Yeah, okay, and our nearest one in the Commonwealth with its own monarchy as Tongua yep. So it's all pretty clear cut, isn't it.

Not to hear from me, Kelvin, sounds like it's going well for you, Marcus. What is the Mexicom number of carriages a diesel engine is allowed to tow? I've caned one eight nine so far. The good thing about living adjacent to train tricks for the last resort for relatives to want to stay over is especially the long, heavy and very noisy two am freight trains. So just a word for the whys they are called wagons. Carriages are for people. But yes, I never knew that until I

Was it?

Just one locomotival with it two?

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